Point of View May 15, 2024 – Hour 2 : Your Life in Rhythm

[00:00:00] If that doesn't make a great deal of sense, stay with us because it is based upon a book

[00:00:27] that came out many years ago, Your Life in Rhythm.

[00:00:30] It is written by Dr. Bruce Millers, an individual who has been on the program with us many times

[00:00:35] before.

[00:00:36] As a matter of fact, on our website we do have a link so that you can get it when it came

[00:00:39] out in 2016, but I've got the original here, the autography back to 2009.

[00:00:46] I can't believe that was 15 years ago.

[00:00:48] We did do an interview many years ago on this book with Bruce Miller and it was so significant

[00:00:54] in my life that I thought when he mentioned that we could do another interview, I thought

[00:00:59] I would like to pass on some of those great principles that are in this book.

[00:01:05] As we go through this, you find yourself saying, I've always tried to come up with work-life

[00:01:10] balance.

[00:01:11] I've always wondered if the problem with even trying to find balance doesn't make any

[00:01:15] sense.

[00:01:16] Is there a better way to look at this?

[00:01:18] That is certainly the genesis of this book that he wrote many, many years ago.

[00:01:24] Bruce Miller is an individual who has been with us before.

[00:01:27] He leads a team of individuals at Christ Fellowship at McKinney, Texas.

[00:01:32] He is the senior pastor there.

[00:01:34] He's also the chairman of the board of the One Heart McKinney Communitywide Outreach.

[00:01:40] He is the author of 12 books.

[00:01:41] Recently, we talked with him about leading a church in a time of sexual questioning,

[00:01:46] this one, Your Life in Rhythm.

[00:01:48] He has taught systematic theology at Dallas Theological Seminary, founded and leads the

[00:01:53] Center for Church-Based Training.

[00:01:55] And Bruce, it is always great to have you on the program.

[00:01:58] Thanks, Kirby.

[00:01:59] What a delight.

[00:02:00] Thank you for inviting me back and honored to be here with you.

[00:02:03] Fifteen years ago.

[00:02:04] My how time flies.

[00:02:06] I had no idea.

[00:02:08] This I think goes all the way back to your sense of frustration when, I believe at the

[00:02:14] time you were teaching in New Zealand.

[00:02:17] And it just sort of came to you and people were so excited about that.

[00:02:22] Then it was more than just a momentary insight.

[00:02:26] It ended up being this book that you published originally with Tyndale and 250 pages of great

[00:02:33] material.

[00:02:34] But tell us a little bit more about the genesis of this book.

[00:02:36] Yeah.

[00:02:37] You know, from long ago to today, the day you called me to do this interview, not long

[00:02:43] days ago, I got an email from a businessman saying, hey, I was so like your book, Your

[00:02:48] Life in Rhythm.

[00:02:49] It's just a couple of days ago.

[00:02:50] I've just given it to a very busy man at our gym and I'm giving it to my stepson.

[00:02:56] And then you contacted me and I thought, gosh, this is just my agent says this is an evergreen

[00:03:02] book.

[00:03:03] And it started back when I was doing a conference for pastors, church leaders in New Zealand

[00:03:09] and people were saying, I'm so burnt out.

[00:03:11] I'm just overcome.

[00:03:13] I'm overwhelmed.

[00:03:15] My life's out of balance.

[00:03:17] And I was on a whiteboard in a conference room and I drew a wave on the whiteboard.

[00:03:21] And I think we're in the Auckland Harbor.

[00:03:23] We're at the ocean.

[00:03:24] It just made sense.

[00:03:26] And we began talking about rhythm and we talked about 20 topics that day.

[00:03:30] But that's what stuck.

[00:03:33] And the man who organized the whole thing, Roland Foreman, called me back and said, Bruce,

[00:03:37] that's the idea everyone's running with.

[00:03:40] You should write on this.

[00:03:41] And I began to research rhythm and realized God has embedded rhythm in the whole created

[00:03:48] order.

[00:03:49] Let's have again talk about what you discovered.

[00:03:52] You're a graduate of University of Texas and that's your alma mater, one of the many.

[00:03:56] And they have actually done research in what's called chronobiology.

[00:04:01] That makes some sense because whether you look at it from a scientific point of view,

[00:04:05] or in a minute we're going to look at it from a biblical point of view, we do have certain

[00:04:10] rhythms that are part of our culture and we sometimes have disconnected from some of them,

[00:04:15] haven't we?

[00:04:16] That's correct.

[00:04:17] And some of these are cultural but many of them are biological.

[00:04:21] And so I realized actually even Eastern medicine is some ways ahead of Western medicine in

[00:04:26] the connection between time and a medicine.

[00:04:29] So you might have a medicine that your doctor says, take this in the morning or take this

[00:04:34] in the evening.

[00:04:36] And they've discovered there's even medicines that during this season of the year, one medicine

[00:04:41] or another works better.

[00:04:43] It's understanding how time and our bodies work together, the time of the day, time of

[00:04:49] the month and time of the year.

[00:04:50] It's absolutely fascinating.

[00:04:51] And of course, all you have to do is put your hand on your chest and feel your heartbeat.

[00:04:57] You know your blood pressure.

[00:04:59] There are so many aspects, of course, and if you've experienced like I have and you

[00:05:03] have too, things like jet lag or people who suffer with seasonal affective disorder.

[00:05:08] All these are related to rhythms of life.

[00:05:11] Wow.

[00:05:12] You know, one of the things that I say so often about why I like Christian camps is

[00:05:16] when you take God's word and put it in God's world, there's a sense of certainly the fact

[00:05:22] that that really comes and hits individuals in significant ways.

[00:05:27] But it also gets us back to nature because then, of course, we still sometimes allow

[00:05:32] people to bring their smartphones.

[00:05:34] But if they didn't, there is a sense in which when the sun goes down, you go to bed.

[00:05:40] And when the sun comes up, you get up and you know, you actually have six days of work

[00:05:45] and a seventh day of rest.

[00:05:47] When you're tied into nature, you understand those rhythms.

[00:05:51] And now we, of course, have 24-7 lifestyles which I think get us out of rhythm, don't

[00:05:57] they?

[00:05:58] I do and it's really hurting us.

[00:06:00] And I think we all know that in the always on constancy of our world.

[00:06:06] If you're involved in global business, you're working across all the time zones.

[00:06:09] So it's 24-7.

[00:06:10] And of course, the Internet is on 24-7.

[00:06:13] It never turns off.

[00:06:14] Even years ago, electricity, once we had light and like you said, when the sun went down,

[00:06:20] we could turn the light on and stay up for hours.

[00:06:22] And it's impacted our health physically, emotionally, and spiritually.

[00:06:26] I'm going to talk about the different kinds of time.

[00:06:29] But just before we get to the break, let me take on the one controversial issue.

[00:06:33] I know this because I've tried over the years to present your material.

[00:06:36] I have a keynote presentation and a PowerPoint presentation and all that.

[00:06:41] But the one place where I get some resistance is the idea of balance.

[00:06:46] And you actually say that balance is a burden.

[00:06:49] And you're not the only one that's been saying that.

[00:06:51] In some respects, before we get into why we should have rhythm, I think we need to dismiss

[00:06:58] this idea of work-life balance.

[00:07:00] Can you help us out with that?

[00:07:01] Yeah, sure.

[00:07:02] I always thought I was supposed to live a balanced life.

[00:07:05] I kind of thought it must be in the Bible.

[00:07:08] Then I realized that's not really true.

[00:07:11] If you want to go outside the Bible, Keith Hammons in the journal or magazine Fast Company

[00:07:17] wrote an article called Balance is Bonk.

[00:07:21] He addresses it from outside the Bible.

[00:07:23] But even if you go in the Scripture, you try to find balance, it's not in the Bible.

[00:07:27] But some say, yeah, but it could be a concept like the Trinity is not in the Bible, but

[00:07:30] it's a biblical concept.

[00:07:32] Well, who lived a balanced life?

[00:07:34] Did Moses?

[00:07:35] Did Paul?

[00:07:36] Did Jesus?

[00:07:37] Of course not.

[00:07:38] And so it's not even a biblical thing.

[00:07:41] In fact, Jesus calls us to sacrifice, to take up your cross, to lose your life.

[00:07:46] That doesn't sound very balanced to me.

[00:07:49] But the Bible also calls us to Sabbath.

[00:07:53] And so it's the rhythm of sacrifice to Sabbath rather than a static concept of balance.

[00:08:00] Frankly, we balance numbers, equations, you balance a stereo.

[00:08:05] But life is always moving.

[00:08:08] Balance is like a photograph and rhythm is like a video.

[00:08:12] Yes, I love the lines you've got there.

[00:08:15] Balance is like prose and a rhythm is like dance and balance is static and rhythm is

[00:08:19] dynamic and balance is rigid and rhythm is flexible.

[00:08:23] And so I'm moving through really the first three chapters fairly quickly because we're

[00:08:28] going to focus most of our time on the two different kinds of time.

[00:08:33] So if you're taking some notes, you might want to write some of those down and they're

[00:08:37] going to apply strategies for both of those as we talk about this book with Bruce Miller,

[00:08:42] Your Life in Rhythm.

[00:08:43] And we'll be back right after this.

[00:08:59] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:05] The federal government has a spending problem.

[00:09:07] Yesterday I talked about the problem and discussed two ideas that Stephen Moore proposes to shrink

[00:09:11] the federal budget.

[00:09:12] The two ideas mentioned yesterday were the presidential impoundment authority and to

[00:09:17] require a supermajority vote to raise taxes.

[00:09:20] Here are two other ideas he proposes.

[00:09:22] The first suggestion is what he calls the Millionaire Subsidy Elimination Act.

[00:09:27] This was proposed many years ago by the late economist Walter Williams.

[00:09:31] The argument is simple.

[00:09:33] No individual with an income over $1 million should be eligible for federal aid payment

[00:09:39] and no business entity with more than $1 billion in revenue should be eligible for federal

[00:09:45] corporate welfare subsidies.

[00:09:47] After all, why should Warren Buffett or Bill Gates receive Social Security?

[00:09:51] Why should financially successful corporations receive federal benefits?

[00:09:56] Second is the Budget Stamp Solution.

[00:09:58] This was proposed by an economist in the Reagan Administration.

[00:10:02] Under this plan, the government would issue a special blue currency called budget stamps.

[00:10:06] This would be given to all recipients of federal spending.

[00:10:10] Recipients of federal assistance this year would receive $6 trillion in budget stamps.

[00:10:15] The value would fluctuate based on how much money was collected in taxes that year.

[00:10:20] If tax collections were estimated to be 90% of spending, the budget stamp would be worth

[00:10:24] $0.90, not a dollar.

[00:10:26] This would provide a significant incentive to Congress to balance the budget.

[00:10:31] You know, these last two days we've talked about four ways to shrink the federal budget.

[00:10:35] We need to do something to bring fiscal sanity to our government.

[00:10:39] I'm Kirby Anderson and that's my point of view.

[00:10:47] For a free copy of Kirby's booklet, A Biblical View on Socialism, go to viewpoints.info.com.

[00:10:54] That's viewpoints.info.com.

[00:10:59] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:11:04] Back with Bruce Miller as we talk about his book, Your Life in Rhythm.

[00:11:07] We're going to talk about the two different kinds of time, Kairos and Kronos.

[00:11:12] Then we're going to go through first of all the rhythm strategies for Kairos and the rhythm

[00:11:18] strategies for Kronos.

[00:11:19] And then we'll talk about how we put it all together and ultimately have a rhythm that

[00:11:24] sees things from eternity.

[00:11:26] So that's kind of how we're going to put this together.

[00:11:28] But first of all, let's recognize that there are actually two kinds of time.

[00:11:34] And Bruce, help us out with that because those come from these Greek words.

[00:11:38] That's right.

[00:11:39] They're two Greek words and they're somewhat synonymous in the New Testament but not in

[00:11:43] more ancient Greek literature.

[00:11:45] Kairos, K-A-I-R-O-S, is more of a quality of time or the right time.

[00:11:52] When someone talks about the right time to invest money or the right time to propose

[00:11:56] marriage, you're talking about the Kairos time.

[00:12:00] Kronos, like words chronometer or chronology, is related to measured time like the hours

[00:12:08] or the months.

[00:12:09] And so we all experience the same Kronos time, but all of us are in unique Kairos times for

[00:12:16] our lives.

[00:12:17] And it does seem to me that, of course, when we talk about this, you can go back to the

[00:12:21] Greek gods.

[00:12:22] Kronos, you know, was a man with his zodiac and we talk about father time and things like

[00:12:28] that.

[00:12:29] But although these are Greek words and a lot of them are rooted in Greek mythology, they

[00:12:35] also surface, I think, rather organically in the scriptures, don't you think?

[00:12:41] Well, the scripture says Christ came at the right time and there's the word Kairos.

[00:12:47] He came at the...and the scripture says we're also to seize or make the most of the time

[00:12:52] or other translations will say that the opportunity, it's the word Kairos, to make the most of

[00:12:58] the Kairos moment, to make the most of this unique time.

[00:13:02] And again, some people have said that when we talk about quantity of time, Kronos fits.

[00:13:08] And when we talk about quality of time, Kairos.

[00:13:11] So those are the first two.

[00:13:13] And let's, if we can then kind of work on the second part of your book, and that is

[00:13:19] the whole issue of Kairos.

[00:13:21] And again, K-A-I-R-O-S, rhythm strategies, because as you began to work your way through

[00:13:29] You found that there were personal seasons, there are life stages.

[00:13:33] Help us think through what that might mean.

[00:13:36] Go ahead.

[00:13:37] I have found that people will ask like, what's my life mission or even my values or take

[00:13:40] a personality test.

[00:13:42] But a question I find that's least asked is what time is it in my life?

[00:13:48] What time is it in my life?

[00:13:50] And personal seasons are shorter.

[00:13:53] You might engagement or pregnancy or common seasons or moving to a new town.

[00:14:00] It takes about a year to get adjusted.

[00:14:02] A stage is longer.

[00:14:04] A stage might be a stage of being in the military for four to ten years, or a stage of being

[00:14:10] in a college student, or a stage adolescence, a stage of raising children.

[00:14:17] These are longer periods of time.

[00:14:19] But you might be in several seasons.

[00:14:21] You're usually in one stage.

[00:14:24] But it's important to identify what stage am I in.

[00:14:26] And just very practically, I would encourage you to think, what was my previous stage?

[00:14:31] What stage am I currently in and what's coming next?

[00:14:33] Because that helps you identify, oh, this is the time that I'm in right now.

[00:14:38] Well, and again, if you're talking about scripture, Ecclesiastes 3.

[00:14:43] If you're thinking about pop music, Pete Seeger, Turn, Turn, Turn, later recorded again by

[00:14:49] the Byrds.

[00:14:50] So whether you have a musical background or a biblical understanding, these ideas of

[00:14:54] personal seasons and, of course, this idea that in 28 different times, the word time

[00:15:01] is used by Solomon, a time for everything and a season, a time to be born, a time to

[00:15:06] die, a time to plant, a time to uproot.

[00:15:08] It does seem to me that this concept of kairos strategy is key.

[00:15:13] So let's say we can now work through at least three of your strategies.

[00:15:17] And one of those is to release expectations, because that's again, knowing the stage that

[00:15:24] you're in and recognizing that in some cases you don't have to do everything all at once.

[00:15:31] That's right.

[00:15:32] You release expectations for more peace, meaning expectations that don't fit this time.

[00:15:36] I'd say I see this with young couples having their first baby.

[00:15:40] And it's not uncommon for a husband or wife, a prospective mother or father to say, that

[00:15:46] baby is not going to change my life.

[00:15:48] And it's well-intentioned, but it's foolish because actually an infant should change your

[00:15:54] life.

[00:15:55] And if you've been working out two hours a day and a really rigorous workout at the

[00:15:59] gym, you might want to shift as a young mom to pushing the stroller around the lake or

[00:16:05] the park.

[00:16:07] It's realizing that I'm in a different season now.

[00:16:10] And so to release that, and sometimes in churches, I find a lot of guilt when I'll stay at the

[00:16:16] new baby stage.

[00:16:17] Maybe you've been in multiple Bible studies and serving for hours in multiple intense

[00:16:21] ministries, but when you have a new baby or frankly, a brand new marriage, that's a season

[00:16:28] to release expectations that you would serve or do the same level of Bible study even in

[00:16:35] that short season.

[00:16:37] Well said.

[00:16:38] Of course, when you're in the valley of the diapers, as I call it, that's obviously changed

[00:16:43] things.

[00:16:44] And your other strategy here, seize opportunities because there's a real opportunity given that

[00:16:50] life stage you might find yourself in to do something that maybe later you could not do.

[00:16:56] That's right.

[00:16:57] And I think as a Christian, it's opportunities for the gospel, seize opportunities for more

[00:17:01] fulfillment.

[00:17:02] And so I find some parents get really frustrated in the middle, late elementary, middle school,

[00:17:09] early high school years when before your child can drive, you are the taxi driver.

[00:17:14] And you're driving them to school and events and sports and everything.

[00:17:19] Look at it as an opportunity.

[00:17:21] That time in the car, if you resist everybody wearing headphones, you have opportunities

[00:17:26] for conversation.

[00:17:27] You have opportunities to listen in on conversations in the backseat.

[00:17:31] And it's actually an incredible opportunity in the taxi season as a parent to take advantage

[00:17:37] of.

[00:17:38] And you again talk about firsts and goodnight kisses.

[00:17:42] And of course you mentioned taxi time and all the rest.

[00:17:44] There's just so many opportunities.

[00:17:47] And if we're always just kind of looking ahead or just saying, I'm just going to try to endure

[00:17:51] this, instead of enjoying the moment, we'll miss those.

[00:17:54] But let me take one more before we take a break.

[00:17:56] And that is, of course, we've talked about two of the Cairo strategies.

[00:17:59] The third sort of fits naturally, and that is anticipate what is next.

[00:18:05] I think about that with your Valley of the Diaper illustration.

[00:18:09] They will learn how to do this.

[00:18:10] They will use the bathroom.

[00:18:11] And when you're in the middle of it, it feels like I'm going to be changing diapers forever.

[00:18:15] But when you anticipate what's next for more hope, so you release expectations for more

[00:18:20] peace, you seize opportunities for more fulfillment, and you anticipate what's next for more hope,

[00:18:26] this too will change.

[00:18:27] You won't stay in this season forever.

[00:18:29] It can feel like it's never ending, like you're in a tunnel and you can't see the light at

[00:18:33] the end.

[00:18:34] But there is light at the end.

[00:18:35] This is the classically the engagement that feels like it's going to last forever, but

[00:18:40] you are going to get married.

[00:18:41] The pregnancy in those late months feels like it's never going to end, but you are going

[00:18:45] to give birth.

[00:18:46] And that hope is really, it gives the strength to sustain today.

[00:18:52] And again, these are some of the Cairo's rhythm strategies.

[00:18:56] Come back from the break, we'll take about the Kronos rhythm strategies.

[00:19:00] But let's, if we can, talk about how people can use this book.

[00:19:03] First of all, you suggest that it would be good to go through this book with a group

[00:19:08] because there's accountability and encouragement and the rest.

[00:19:11] You also have a section on terms of living in time with those rhythms and even a life

[00:19:17] exercise.

[00:19:18] So in a matter of minutes or so, talk about how you could use this book because I think

[00:19:23] this is helpful individually, but it's even more helpful in terms of group study.

[00:19:29] Yeah, I've seen groups do this, church groups, Bible studies, small groups, and just reading

[00:19:34] groups, like, you know, just saying, hey, we're going to do a book club.

[00:19:37] I think it's really good for couples to read this together because you're doing life together

[00:19:41] as a husband and wife.

[00:19:43] And I have found that a number of people are reading and say, oh, my spouse is better.

[00:19:47] I say, that's right.

[00:19:48] It's a great book to read together as a couple.

[00:19:51] Let me just mention that as we go to a break, we have quite a bit of information about this

[00:19:56] book.

[00:19:57] And if you would like to know more about it, I doubt you're going to be able to find it

[00:20:00] real easily in the bookstore, which is why we have it so that you can get it in paperback

[00:20:04] or Kindle, very inexpensive.

[00:20:07] You might want to think about buying a whole stack of them and having your Bible study

[00:20:11] go through with it.

[00:20:12] If you'd like to know more about Bruce himself, we have brucebmiller.com, and there you can

[00:20:19] find about all of his free resources, his books, his courses.

[00:20:24] You can contact him if you'd like to maybe have him come and speak for you, maybe actually

[00:20:29] kick off a study that your church might do on this, Your Life in Rhythm.

[00:20:34] I think you will find that very helpful as well.

[00:20:37] There's all sorts of great resources.

[00:20:38] Of course, you can also follow him on the blog and the material that he has available

[00:20:43] and find out about his other books.

[00:20:45] As we mentioned last time, we have the book Leading a Church in a Time of Sexual Questioning,

[00:20:51] and that is just one of his many books that you will find very helpful.

[00:20:55] But of course this one, a very significant book on Your Life in Rhythm.

[00:21:00] We did the interview, of course, many, many years ago, but now I've had a chance to practice

[00:21:05] it.

[00:21:06] If you ask me when we're going to be doing certain things in our Bible study, when we're

[00:21:10] going to be doing certain things with certain organizations, when in some cases we will

[00:21:15] have the next board meeting, since I serve on a lot of boards, a lot of that all comes

[00:21:19] from actually trying to have some rhythm that we put together in our lives.

[00:21:24] So let's take a break.

[00:21:25] We'll continue our conversation with Bruce Miller right after this.

[00:21:32] In 19th century London, two towering historical figures did battle, not with guns and bombs,

[00:21:38] but words and ideas.

[00:21:41] London was home to Karl Marx, the father of communism, and legendary Baptist preacher

[00:21:47] Charles Spurgeon.

[00:21:49] London was in many ways the center of the world economically, militarily, and intellectually.

[00:21:55] Marx sought to destroy religion, the family, and everything the Bible supports.

[00:22:00] Spurgeon stood against him, warning of socialism's dangers.

[00:22:05] Spurgeon understood Christianity is not just religious truth, it is truth for all of life.

[00:22:12] Where do you find men with that kind of wisdom to stand against darkness today?

[00:22:17] Get the light you need on today's most pressing issues delivered to your inbox when you sign

[00:22:22] up for the Viewpoints Commentary at pointofview.net slash signup.

[00:22:28] Every weekday in less than two minutes, you'll learn how to be a person of light to stand

[00:22:33] against darkness in our time.

[00:22:36] It's free, so visit pointofview.net slash signup right now.

[00:22:41] Pointofview.net slash signup.

[00:22:49] Point of View will continue.

[00:22:59] You are listening to Point of View.

[00:23:04] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management

[00:23:09] or staff of this station.

[00:23:11] Now, here again is Kirby Anderson.

[00:23:15] Back once again as we continue our conversation with Bruce Miller.

[00:23:18] The book is entitled Your Life in Rhythm.

[00:23:20] We've talked about the Kairos strategies.

[00:23:23] Now we'll talk about the Kronos strategies.

[00:23:25] But the first thing we need to do, Bruce, is to talk about the fact that you really have

[00:23:29] five cycles.

[00:23:30] Can you explain that?

[00:23:32] That's right.

[00:23:33] When we talk about Kronos time, we're talking about measured, predictable time.

[00:23:37] At one time I thought, who invented the day, the week, the month, the quarter, the year?

[00:23:42] I realized it wasn't a particular culture, the Chinese culture, Indian culture, someone

[00:23:47] else.

[00:23:48] These are embedded in the created order.

[00:23:50] They're determined by the way the sun and the moon and the earth interact, the rotation

[00:23:55] and orbit, except for the week.

[00:23:58] Interestingly, the week is established by God in creation and does not have a correlation.

[00:24:04] The day is the rotation.

[00:24:06] The month is the lunar cycle.

[00:24:08] The quarter is the solstice, and the year is the orbit.

[00:24:13] When I think about that, I think we need to shift our mindset from managing time—of course,

[00:24:18] we talk a lot about time management—to flowing in time.

[00:24:23] Because honestly, we don't manage time.

[00:24:25] That's a bit arrogant.

[00:24:26] Only God does that.

[00:24:27] But we flow in time the way God created it.

[00:24:31] Talk about the feasts for just a minute, because you have that embedded in the scriptures.

[00:24:38] That is a very significant aspect as well, isn't it?

[00:24:41] That's right.

[00:24:42] Amazingly, the Feast of Israel has 50 cycles.

[00:24:45] There were daily sacrifices and weekly, of course on the Sabbath, on Saturday, and then

[00:24:51] lunar, monthly, quarterly, and annual with the Day of Atonement.

[00:24:57] The Feast of Israel matches up with the created cycles that all of us live in and should flow

[00:25:03] in.

[00:25:04] Again, these are ones that, as we mentioned just a few minutes ago, we are sort of disconnected

[00:25:10] from.

[00:25:11] The fact that all of us have traveled, and I know you've traveled overseas, and all of

[00:25:15] us have found ourselves sometimes waking up in the early morning going, okay, where am

[00:25:20] I?

[00:25:21] What day is it?

[00:25:22] You know, all sorts of things.

[00:25:25] There is a sense in which that's why I think getting back to nature is helpful, getting

[00:25:29] back to some of those basic rhythms.

[00:25:33] There have been books written about the biological clocks and the rhythms of life.

[00:25:38] In some respects, you're not creating something.

[00:25:41] You're acknowledging something that's always been there, but in this fast-paced, frenetic

[00:25:46] lifestyle where the electric lights are always on, the Internet is always available, most

[00:25:52] stores are open.

[00:25:53] Some of us are old enough to remember when we had blue laws and some of the stores would

[00:25:57] close down.

[00:25:58] Of course, we don't have Hobby Lobby or Chick-fil-A open on Sundays, but without those few exceptions,

[00:26:04] everything is 24-7, 365, and we really miss some things.

[00:26:09] I think your book really brings us back to those.

[00:26:11] Let's talk about some of the...

[00:26:12] I think getting more distant from nature, the created order, has really hurt us, like

[00:26:17] you say.

[00:26:19] I think where it becomes obvious to us when we violate these cycles, these rhythms, is

[00:26:24] the day.

[00:26:25] It's the easiest one.

[00:26:26] Most of us, when we were younger, I imagine you did, I did, Kirby, stay up all night because

[00:26:31] we want to get more done.

[00:26:33] That didn't work very well.

[00:26:34] A few people have stayed up two nights in a row.

[00:26:38] The reason you don't do that when you're older is you realize, actually, I don't get more

[00:26:41] done by staying up all night.

[00:26:42] It hurts me.

[00:26:44] We realize, no, good wisdom, if you read the studies, is to get the same amount of sleep

[00:26:50] every night.

[00:26:51] Go to bed at about the same time, wake up about the same time, and get a consistent

[00:26:55] amount of sleep.

[00:26:56] That's respecting the rhythm of the day.

[00:26:59] What if the same thing happens on a week, about taking a day off a week, a Sabbath,

[00:27:05] and the month, and the quarter, and the year?

[00:27:08] There's actual research that people who don't take an annual vacation are at a higher risk

[00:27:14] for heart attack.

[00:27:16] You're violating the annual rhythm.

[00:27:19] Let me also mention that you have an appendix where you can schedule your life events, and

[00:27:24] so you have some for your personal annual flow, then your personal yearly cycle, quarterly

[00:27:29] cycle, monthly cycle, weekly cycle, daily cycle, just fascinating material.

[00:27:35] Again, I want people to know that you are obviously thinking through all the ways in

[00:27:40] which we can diagram this out and begin to implement some of this, but let's talk about

[00:27:46] a couple of the strategies.

[00:27:48] One is, of course, pace yourself.

[00:27:51] There are times in which there are things that need to be done in the day, sometimes

[00:27:55] in the week, sometimes in the month, sometimes in the year, whatever it might be.

[00:27:59] Whether it's paying bills or annual cycles, there are all sorts of places where we really

[00:28:03] need to make sure that we pace ourselves.

[00:28:07] That's right.

[00:28:08] It's about frequency.

[00:28:09] It's also important to sync that up with important people in your life.

[00:28:13] Let me just ask you, if your parents are alive, how frequently do you call your mom?

[00:28:21] Whatever it is, you might think, how frequently does your mom want you to call her?

[00:28:24] If she has a daily expectation and you have a monthly expectation, that's not going to

[00:28:28] work so well.

[00:28:29] Yes.

[00:28:30] Again, just all sorts of ideas.

[00:28:33] Again, so many good diagrams and charts to help people begin to implement that.

[00:28:39] One of those, of course, is pace yourself.

[00:28:40] I love this one, though, build rituals.

[00:28:42] If you think about that, a lot of the feasts are rituals.

[00:28:45] A lot of the church calendar are rituals.

[00:28:49] Those are obviously in very good illustrations of that.

[00:28:54] Sometimes a ritual can be a negative, but these rituals, these family rituals, these church

[00:28:58] calendars and other things are very, very important.

[00:29:02] Again, you talk about that in the book.

[00:29:05] Other words to help you access the word ritual might be on a shorter rhythm, like a day or

[00:29:10] a week is think habit or a discipline.

[00:29:13] On a longer rhythm, like a year, think tradition.

[00:29:17] Maybe we have a tradition for New Year's Eve or birthdays or anniversary.

[00:29:22] The opportunity here, the strategy is you can build life enhancing, mission enhancing

[00:29:27] rituals that can reinforce your values and what you really want to be about by instilling

[00:29:35] habits, disciplines, traditions, all of which I embrace under the title rituals that can

[00:29:40] really enhance your life.

[00:29:43] I did mention churches and since you do have a section there about worship rituals, you

[00:29:48] have liturgical Christians and we have many in the listening audience that have benefited

[00:29:53] from an annual set of rhythms built into the church year.

[00:29:57] You have lectionaries and other kinds of liturgical readings and things of that nature.

[00:30:04] People say, well, we don't need to always stick to those.

[00:30:07] I understand that, but there is a sense in which if you look at all the feasts that were

[00:30:11] in the Old Testament, it makes sense that we would have some of those in our churches

[00:30:15] in the New Testament.

[00:30:17] That's right and what you do repeatedly forms you.

[00:30:22] People talk about empty ritual and they worry, well, if I celebrated the Lord's Supper every

[00:30:25] week it would be empty.

[00:30:27] Many people in churches that do celebrate the Lord's Supper weekly, liturgical churches,

[00:30:32] our church has adopted this as a low church, a non-liturgical church.

[00:30:37] It actually forms you because what you do repeatedly shapes your life.

[00:30:43] Wow, so good.

[00:30:45] And again, I appreciate you saying that because I knew your church isn't necessarily a liturgical

[00:30:49] church but there you're doing that.

[00:30:51] So one more strategy just before we take a break and that is oscillate work and rest.

[00:30:56] And again, we're talking to a high octane, stressed individual, type A plus individual

[00:31:04] by the name of Bruce Miller.

[00:31:06] But there is a dealing with work and rest and that's the other part of your strategy as

[00:31:11] well.

[00:31:12] Yes, and I find that most people feel like they're working too hard and beat themselves

[00:31:19] up and say, I've got to take some time off.

[00:31:22] Then they go on a vacation and they beat themselves up and think, I've got to keep

[00:31:26] on track on email so I'll wake up before the family and check email real fast.

[00:31:30] And so we don't really work hard enough when we should or rest well enough on the other

[00:31:35] time.

[00:31:36] So one way to think about it is life is not a marathon but a series of sprints and rests.

[00:31:43] Rather than keeping a constant pace or trying to live a balanced life, we need to have a

[00:31:47] rhythmic movement from Sabbath to sacrifice to working hard.

[00:31:52] Nothing wrong with working hard and having a time of intensity but it needs to be followed

[00:31:58] by a time of rest and renewal.

[00:32:00] Let's talk about that for just a minute because you talk about by taking one day each week

[00:32:04] to rest, I actually got more done in the other six days than I was getting done in seven

[00:32:09] days before.

[00:32:10] Now I mentioned just a minute ago we've had the Green family on here as well and they have

[00:32:15] said by actually working six days and then leaving Sunday off at Hobby Lobby, we actually

[00:32:23] do better than many of our competitors that are open seven days a week.

[00:32:29] It's a little bit like tithing.

[00:32:30] A lot of people say, you know, if I give 10%, can I even live on the 90%?

[00:32:34] I've heard a lot of people, including our family as well, I do better with the 90% than

[00:32:39] I would have if I had the 100%.

[00:32:41] There's a sense in terms of this oscillating work and rest that that works as well, doesn't

[00:32:46] it?

[00:32:47] I think that's right.

[00:32:48] Part of that is an act of faith, trusting God, which if you go all the way back to manna

[00:32:54] in the Old Testament, it only came six days and on the sixth day God provided enough for

[00:32:59] the seventh day.

[00:33:00] It's a fascinating story to go and read but it's trusting God that actually He can do

[00:33:05] more with the 90% than you could with the 100%.

[00:33:08] He can do more with six days than you could with seven.

[00:33:12] And then, if you need a little help for your faith, if you would go do research on this,

[00:33:16] you'll find that's actually the case in practical everyday life.

[00:33:19] Let's take a break.

[00:33:20] When we come back, you might say, okay, we've covered it all.

[00:33:23] Well now let's put it all together, which is one of the chapters and then also this

[00:33:27] idea of ultimate rhythm.

[00:33:29] And this book is just fascinating.

[00:33:31] It's got all sorts of great ideas, suggestions, and even as I've gone through it again many

[00:33:37] times I think of something else I might implement in my life.

[00:33:40] Let's take a break.

[00:33:41] We'll continue our conversation right after this.

[00:33:57] You're listening to Point of View, your listener supported source for truth.

[00:34:02] Back for a few more minutes with Bruce Miller as we talk about his book, Your Life in Rhythm.

[00:34:07] We've talked about Kairos rhythm strategies, Kronos rhythm strategies.

[00:34:13] Bruce, if you can, help us put it all together and what I appreciate so much about your book

[00:34:18] is that once again you have a rhythm solution process and then you give some samples, a

[00:34:25] college student, a new man, a new woman, a divorced individual, whatever they might be

[00:34:32] and then one for yourself.

[00:34:33] So take us through how we can begin to take what we've already learned and what we can

[00:34:39] read in the previous pages of your book, which go on for about 190 pages.

[00:34:45] In the last pages you spend some time helping us think about how to apply all of the things

[00:34:50] we've just learned.

[00:34:51] So how do we get started?

[00:34:52] I want to make it really practical to really make a difference in your life, not just be

[00:34:57] a fun book to read but make a difference that can help you have a better life.

[00:35:01] So first you identify the problem.

[00:35:03] What is it I'm struggling with in my life that you might express in terms of being unbalanced?

[00:35:09] Then identify what time is it in my life.

[00:35:10] I'm raising little kids.

[00:35:12] I'm an empty nester.

[00:35:13] I've just retired, whatever it might be.

[00:35:16] And then once you've identified what time it is, your season and stages, you can apply

[00:35:21] the three strategies.

[00:35:23] Release expectations that don't fit this season, this time for more peace.

[00:35:27] Seize opportunities for Christ for more fulfillment in this season and then anticipate what's

[00:35:32] next in the next season.

[00:35:36] Then you want to review the five chrono cycles, the way God made the world to function, the

[00:35:43] day, the week, the month, the quarter and the year and think how do I flow in these

[00:35:47] well?

[00:35:48] Again, we don't manage time.

[00:35:49] We flow in time.

[00:35:51] Time is not like money, contrary to Benjamin Franklin.

[00:35:54] We can't save it or spend it or manage it.

[00:35:57] We flow in it.

[00:35:59] And there's three big ways to do that.

[00:36:01] Pace yourself, which is about frequency and flow.

[00:36:04] Build life enhancing rituals in each of the five cycles and then oscillate work and rest

[00:36:10] or intensity and renewal in each of the five cycles.

[00:36:15] So again, what have you found as you've been able to apply this not only to your life but

[00:36:18] to people in your church and other places where you've spoken because now you've got

[00:36:24] a decade and a half worth of experience that has come from a book that you've written?

[00:36:29] I'll tell you, you've seen the research, Kirby.

[00:36:31] So many pastors are burned out, exhausted, even quitting the ministry.

[00:36:36] I almost feel embarrassed.

[00:36:37] I've been a senior pastor 27 years, been in official ministry 42 years and I'm not

[00:36:42] burned out.

[00:36:43] I'm not exhausted.

[00:36:44] I'm loving the ministry.

[00:36:47] And people say, what's your secret?

[00:36:49] Well, there's a lot about my walk with Christ.

[00:36:52] But a key of why I think I've been able to flourish in ministry all these years is by

[00:36:59] living in rhythm, which I've done for the last 15 years of applying these principles

[00:37:05] to my life.

[00:37:06] Not perfectly, but for the most part.

[00:37:09] And I think it's enabled me to avoid a lot of the burnout that so many pastors experience.

[00:37:16] Wow.

[00:37:17] Just in the few minutes we have left, you have a chapter on seeing from eternity.

[00:37:22] And that's important too because there is a sense in which you begin to sort out what

[00:37:27] is meaningful and what is meaningless.

[00:37:31] The fact that we're made for immortality, we are going to live an eternal life, not

[00:37:37] just here but in the future.

[00:37:39] And so there's a sense in which seeing that from an eternal perspective is really key as

[00:37:44] well, isn't it?

[00:37:45] Yes.

[00:37:46] And there's a third Greek word.

[00:37:47] There's kairos, kronos and aeon, which is eternity.

[00:37:51] And you quoted Solomon in Ecclesiastes 3, his famous poem.

[00:37:55] In that same chapter he says God has said eternity in our hearts.

[00:37:59] And so it's seeing from eternity that gives perspective to how we live today, what really

[00:38:06] matters in the various seasons and stages of a lifetime and in the cycles of the day,

[00:38:12] the week, the month, the quarter and the year.

[00:38:15] What about how we would use the appendix?

[00:38:17] Because you have an enormous number of charts and I've always appreciated that because then

[00:38:23] people sometimes as they get into this say, oh, I hadn't thought about that.

[00:38:28] For example, you've got all sorts of rhythms whether it's New Year's Day or Valentine's

[00:38:31] Day.

[00:38:32] You've got school open house.

[00:38:34] You've got, of course, religious Lent, Palm Sunday, Pentecost.

[00:38:38] You can go through this long, long list and in some respects what you're doing is creating

[00:38:44] a chart and then giving some content so that when I have this blank chart and I go, okay,

[00:38:50] what do I put there?

[00:38:52] You in many cases give us some suggestions on what to put in the chart and that's going

[00:38:56] to help us begin to come up with an actual plan because you know that as much as we

[00:39:02] would like people to enjoy your book, what you really hope is for it to change people's

[00:39:06] lives and put them more in rhythm with God's direction in their lives.

[00:39:12] That's right.

[00:39:13] So we want to make it super practical so if you're a chart graph kind of person, I've got

[00:39:17] those for you.

[00:39:18] If you're more of an intuitive person, you probably don't need those but I've got samples

[00:39:23] and blank ones so that you can apply these to your own life for what you're doing now

[00:39:29] and then questions for group discussion and personal reflection so you could use it in

[00:39:35] that way.

[00:39:36] And sometimes I've supercharged this with, I have a one day workshop that I've done for

[00:39:40] churches and employees and businesses to basically summarize the entire book in a one day workshop

[00:39:49] in which we also fill out the worksheets and say okay now let's just go ahead and do a

[00:39:55] one draft.

[00:39:56] Here's how we would apply this to my life right here right now, all six strategies.

[00:40:01] One of the things I love about that is those last three pages are the questions for group

[00:40:05] discussion and personal reflection so this is plug and play.

[00:40:09] If you are a small group leader, a life group leader, your pastor, whatever, you have that

[00:40:13] available.

[00:40:14] But let's see if we can talk about what is on your website.

[00:40:17] It is brucebmiller.com and if somebody says you know I really would like to maybe get

[00:40:22] together the deacons in my church, the elders in my church, my Sunday school class, my life

[00:40:28] group class, whatever it might be, maybe my business to work their way through that.

[00:40:34] There's a way in which people could actually schedule you to come and teach and lead in

[00:40:38] some of these regards can't they?

[00:40:40] That's right, I'd be happy to do that.

[00:40:43] So again some great material.

[00:40:44] I might just mention you are of course a church leader consultant and of course we might even

[00:40:48] mention a few of the other books there as well.

[00:40:51] Leading a Church in a Time of Sexual Questioning of course we've talked about.

[00:40:54] But you've had many other books as well.

[00:40:57] The Leadership Baton which is a book that I would highly recommend to individuals.

[00:41:02] And then of course since we have so many times talked about apologetics on this program, in

[00:41:06] the past we've talked about your book The Seven Big Questions Searching for God, Truth

[00:41:11] and Purpose and a variety of others that are available.

[00:41:15] So go to the website and find that.

[00:41:18] And in addition to your Life in Rhythm, of course there's one called Your Church in Rhythm,

[00:41:23] The Forgotten Dimensions of Seasons and Cycles.

[00:41:26] There's a Bible study there about Big God and so many other great resources.

[00:41:30] So as always Bruce Miller it is just great for you to join us and appreciate the relationship

[00:41:36] you and I have had since you were I guess just a graduate from high school.

[00:41:39] So it's been great to know you and it's been great to have you on the program.

[00:41:43] So thank you for joining us today here on Point of View.

[00:41:46] You're most welcome Kirby.

[00:41:47] I thank God for you and the amazing ways God has used you and is using you.

[00:41:50] I'm so thankful for our long and continued friendship.

[00:41:54] Well again just before we wind down for today let me just mention a couple things.

[00:41:59] Book is entitled Your Life in Rhythm, Less Stress, More Peace, Less Frustration, More

[00:42:06] Fulfillment, Less Discouragement, More Hope.

[00:42:10] And again if you are finding yourself saying, you know, I'm too busy, I'm really tired,

[00:42:15] I'm starting to burn out, I'm anxious, I'm really kind of overwhelmed, this may be something

[00:42:21] that could help you.

[00:42:22] If you've been struggling for some time as we've talked about this idea, well we need

[00:42:26] to have a balanced life.

[00:42:28] A lot of people say, well is that even in the scriptures?

[00:42:31] I'm not sure that it is.

[00:42:33] Is rhythm in the scriptures?

[00:42:35] I've given you a couple of verses and a couple of other illustrations there as well.

[00:42:39] And so I do commend the book to you and if you would like to know more, of course we

[00:42:43] have all that information on our website at pointofview.net.

[00:42:47] We have information about Bruce, brucebmiller.com.

[00:42:51] There's a place for you to schedule him maybe to come and speak or to hold a seminar.

[00:42:55] It's all available of course at our website at pointofview.net.

[00:42:59] Your Life in Rhythm, it is something that has been in the bookstore but probably best

[00:43:03] to join us through the website pointofview.net.

[00:43:07] And you've been listening to us on Point of View.

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