[00:00:00] Music
[00:00:20] All right, happy to have you along my fellow Tech enthusiasts. I am Sam Bushman keeping an eye on the tech so you don't have to Jay Harrison with me. Welcome sir
[00:00:28] Thank you Sam
[00:00:30] All kinds of stuff going on in the tech world man. It's crazy. Last time we talked about cyber trucks melting down
[00:00:35] Well not really melting down. They just have a recall because of soap
[00:00:39] If you didn't hear that go listen to the last episode for the details. It's just crazy
[00:00:43] You know they say that a lot of these trucks are gonna have to be read out with and
[00:00:47] I don't know unlike many Tesla recalls this one cannot be fixed with a simple over-the-air software update
[00:00:54] That's kind of the big deal. You got to take your truck in to get that dude fixed. So if you got a cyber truck get on it
[00:00:59] We talked about the progress of AI last time as well
[00:01:03] And you know they want you to believe that AI surpasses humans in almost all performance benchmarks
[00:01:09] And my question is this how do you know it's almost Jay just by the way
[00:01:12] What if there's more benchmarks we come up with every day?
[00:01:14] What if there are benchmarks that you haven't come up with?
[00:01:17] Yeah, I mean
[00:01:19] Well then that we just don't know I mean how do you know what you don't know
[00:01:24] Exactly
[00:01:25] Anyway I just find that interesting and statements like that are interesting to me
[00:01:29] It's like hey we can run the whole world in 64k of memories is what they used to say
[00:01:32] In fact in the late 1800s weren't they kind of saying hey we don't we there's no more inventions
[00:01:36] We don't need inventions anymore
[00:01:37] Yeah somebody with UPS or something
[00:01:40] Everything that's ever been invented to me
[00:01:42] Definitive statements like that are you know baffling to me
[00:01:45] Now the idea that AI is incredibly you know advanced and it's getting advanced super fast
[00:01:51] And it's just going to you know like gangbusters
[00:01:54] Okay, I agree 100% it's incredible the progress of IA the promise of AI is incredible folks
[00:02:00] I'm not downing the technology
[00:02:02] I'm just trying to say let's not get ahead of ourselves as soon as you you know produce a car without any bugs
[00:02:06] I'll start to believe
[00:02:09] Imagine that even your toaster has problems right Jay
[00:02:12] Yeah, maybe AI needs to build toasters
[00:02:14] No car coming off of any lot has no bugs in it
[00:02:17] I mean
[00:02:18] But they're saying it I mean if AI built one it could
[00:02:21] No
[00:02:22] Smarter than you in every way right
[00:02:23] No
[00:02:24] Alright
[00:02:25] Sports fans
[00:02:27] This is a little different than AI Jay
[00:02:30] These are humans we're talking about now
[00:02:32] Now if AI listen to audio you do it perfectly
[00:02:35] But sports fans consume more audio than average listeners
[00:02:41] This is the National Association of Broadcasters
[00:02:44] They have what's called smartbrief.com Jay
[00:02:46] Okay
[00:02:47] And they brief everybody every day on what's going on and everything else
[00:02:49] And they say sports fans consume more audio than average listeners
[00:02:51] Now listen
[00:02:52] Sports fans consume over two hours more of audio content daily than the average American
[00:02:59] They say listen to sports podcasts radio satellite for six hours and 26 minutes a day
[00:03:08] That's according to the inaugural sports radio report
[00:03:12] Wow
[00:03:13] Wow
[00:03:14] I listen to zero sports a day
[00:03:16] Come on Jay
[00:03:17] Audio or otherwise
[00:03:18] I wouldn't say I listen to the zero but I'm certainly not at the six hours and 26 minutes daily
[00:03:22] I'll tell you that right now
[00:03:23] But it's the inaugural sports audio report that says this
[00:03:26] Now they say sports audio listeners
[00:03:28] Especially podcast audiences also typically spend more on sports merchandise
[00:03:38] Than those who prefer video coverage Jay
[00:03:43] So the point is you know everybody's trying to go to video now
[00:03:46] But they're saying hey if you do the video number one
[00:03:49] You get a whole lot less time
[00:03:51] Eyes and ears on it whatever you want to call it
[00:03:53] And people spend less money
[00:03:55] So that's an interesting twist that people haven't really thought of either
[00:03:58] Everybody kind of thinks Sam
[00:03:59] You need to learn to do shorts buddy
[00:04:01] You got to do video and you got to
[00:04:02] And my response is what so my listeners can spend less
[00:04:05] And spend less time with me is that why
[00:04:07] I don't know it
[00:04:09] It almost seems like that's a piece from the National Association of Broadcasters
[00:04:12] It's kind of self-referential
[00:04:14] Like that hey this is you know they're going to spend more money
[00:04:18] If you have more listeners that are into sports
[00:04:20] And I don't know it seems a little bit odd
[00:04:24] Yeah but it's the National Association of Broadcasters
[00:04:26] Not necessarily a sports group put together or say
[00:04:29] Maybe they're trying to tell people where to direct their sales
[00:04:33] Yeah and the NAB pretty much believe it or not
[00:04:35] I went to the NAB just last week
[00:04:37] Alright we want to hear about the cool tech from the NAB Sam
[00:04:40] Yeah we'll do an episode on that
[00:04:42] Absolutely
[00:04:43] There's actually some really cool tech that I'll brief you on
[00:04:45] That I discovered
[00:04:47] But what I'm saying though is they don't really have a game
[00:04:49] Whether it's radio or TV or podcasts or this or that
[00:04:53] At least at the NAB and their more video and podcasts
[00:04:56] And all that than they have radio their satellite their everything
[00:04:59] So I don't think they really have an extra grind in the game per se
[00:05:02] They're just simply saying hey
[00:05:03] I know it seems great the video is awesome
[00:05:05] And you know everybody's on the video and it's the latest
[00:05:07] Greatest kind of thing
[00:05:08] But they're just simply saying hey
[00:05:10] People that like simpler audio believe it or not
[00:05:12] Spend more money and spend more time with you
[00:05:14] And I just found that kind of an interesting twist
[00:05:16] And part of it again you could say it's
[00:05:19] Is it because people really spend more time
[00:05:21] Or is it because for example we do two podcasts
[00:05:24] A week of tech watch radio their half hour each
[00:05:27] 29 minutes 50 seconds each or whatever right
[00:05:30] Right
[00:05:31] No 24 minutes 59 because there's news sorry
[00:05:34] Okay so 25 minute episodes in essence
[00:05:37] A lot of the video shorts that people watch are 5-10 minutes
[00:05:40] So is it the nature of what's you know
[00:05:43] The deliverance or is it really that people spend more time
[00:05:46] Like you can't compare the two if the time isn't the same
[00:05:49] If somebody listens to tech watch radio every you know
[00:05:52] Whenever they come out they're listening to an hour a week
[00:05:54] A tech watch radio they might watch 10 videos
[00:05:56] But be five minutes apiece and it's only 50 minutes not 60 right
[00:05:59] Yeah but there's a lot of things you can do while you're listening to
[00:06:02] An audio that you can't do with video
[00:06:04] Video demands
[00:06:05] Well now you're getting some more so now we're talking about your car
[00:06:07] While you're riding your bike while you're exercising whatever right
[00:06:10] You're making dinner all those things and that doesn't happen with videos
[00:06:13] Videos you gotta sit there and watch them
[00:06:15] Right
[00:06:16] Right
[00:06:17] Yeah
[00:06:18] So anyway it's interesting how the medium or the choices are you know
[00:06:21] And how short should short be
[00:06:23] Well you know they started out with X or Twitter
[00:06:26] And it was what 80 characters, okay
[00:06:28] Yeah then it went to 160 and now it's multiple times that
[00:06:33] And if you pay for more you know
[00:06:35] Yeah exactly
[00:06:36] If you pay for where you get more if you put a link in there
[00:06:39] That you can click on the link and get whatever as long as you want
[00:06:41] And you know you could have a video and an audio
[00:06:44] I mean Tucker Carlson and some of these guys do like two hour things
[00:06:47] And they just have a link in their deal and you click on it
[00:06:49] And I guess you're watching it from Twitter right
[00:06:51] Yeah
[00:06:52] Or X or whatever
[00:06:53] So anyway it's kind of interesting how all that changes
[00:06:55] But what's the sweet spot you know
[00:06:57] I think we're still trying to find out Jay
[00:06:59] Yeah I think that we are
[00:07:01] And I think there's different sweet spots for different audiences
[00:07:03] So the tiktok audience
[00:07:05] And different purposes
[00:07:06] Exactly
[00:07:07] Like what's your goal if you're trying to break down like a story like this
[00:07:10] You know you can write a headline and write an article that I can read in two minutes
[00:07:13] But without the commentary that we add to it
[00:07:15] Without kind of the nuances of it and stuff that we put in
[00:07:17] It might take us 10 minutes to cover it
[00:07:19] Might take two minutes to read the literal article
[00:07:21] Or you know 10 seconds to read the headline
[00:07:24] What's most valuable to people and that's a discussion in the debate as well right
[00:07:27] Definitely
[00:07:28] Absolutely
[00:07:29] You've got to figure out what audience that you're geared to
[00:07:32] And what they're doing
[00:07:34] If they're watching videos that they may be more short form
[00:07:37] They may have lower attention spans
[00:07:39] But then there's long form stuff
[00:07:40] Series and you know long video
[00:07:43] That goes into whole seasons and everything else
[00:07:46] And then you've got the really short stuff like tiktok
[00:07:50] And people are experimented with that
[00:07:52] And I know they have studies out that claim this claim and that claim and all kinds of claims
[00:07:55] And they claim that radio still does even better than podcasting
[00:07:58] When they say podcasting is taking over the world
[00:08:00] And then they say man you know where if you don't do video
[00:08:02] And then they say you know so I guess it just depends on who what
[00:08:05] I personally like all of the above in different forms for different reasons
[00:08:09] If it's long form like you know technology or politics or whatever else
[00:08:14] I like the longer form stuff because I feel like I get more of a complete reality check
[00:08:18] I get my favorite people's viewpoints
[00:08:20] A lot of it is personality driven and radio
[00:08:22] Whereas if you just talking about headlines
[00:08:24] It's not really personality driven
[00:08:25] It's like headlines or whatever
[00:08:27] You know X is first really X probably drives more first place of a news story than anybody else
[00:08:35] Oh definitely
[00:08:36] Because it's so short it's quick it's boom
[00:08:37] I mean it's so fast to get to the
[00:08:39] You can literally be somewhere
[00:08:41] You know you can be at a Walmart and watch a shooting happen
[00:08:43] And you can literally tweak that out and literally have the news there in 30 seconds
[00:08:46] Whereas the news guys haven't even got there yet
[00:08:48] I think Twitter leads in the news and you see a lot of news organizations
[00:08:52] But it leads to short firm headline news though
[00:08:54] Short form headline news but you know not news commentary right
[00:08:57] Right exactly but as far as the breaking story
[00:09:00] It's going to happen on Twitter first
[00:09:02] And it used to be people would you know they'd have news wires
[00:09:05] And rip and read from the AP or whoever
[00:09:07] It's Twitter now man it's going to be there first
[00:09:09] And yeah you may have the commentators it may get you know
[00:09:14] Wherever on these cable news networks or on talk radio
[00:09:18] It's going to get expounded upon but it's going to break on Twitter
[00:09:22] There's no question about it
[00:09:24] And a lot of times people just watch Twitter for the break
[00:09:26] And then they do their longer form
[00:09:28] People do short form quick videos on it
[00:09:30] Which is it takes a 10 second headline to now
[00:09:33] You know 5 minutes or less short
[00:09:35] Then it makes it into its way
[00:09:37] On radio and it might be 10, 15 minutes to break it down
[00:09:40] And discuss it and everything else
[00:09:42] You know I don't think that all these different options apply to people the same
[00:09:46] Yeah and also the advent of video and audio on Twitter
[00:09:51] Makes it to where when somebody is trying to break it down
[00:09:54] To be able to get some of those sources
[00:09:56] And to get some filler material basically from the thing
[00:10:00] It's very helpful I think
[00:10:02] There's no question
[00:10:04] And you know we've seen this with a lot of the new media
[00:10:07] Or I would say social media services and stuff like that
[00:10:09] Like Facebook think about Facebook's predecessor
[00:10:12] What was that Spaces or MySpace
[00:10:14] MySpace yep
[00:10:15] And what proceeded that
[00:10:17] Uh huh
[00:10:18] I think MySpace was the big first social media network
[00:10:22] Kind of but then you go back to that
[00:10:24] And you say okay they used to have forums on
[00:10:26] GeoCities
[00:10:27] Or something like AOL and stuff
[00:10:29] You had some of that stuff
[00:10:30] But I think as far as a nationwide
[00:10:33] So you weren't really on AOL unless you were on AOL
[00:10:36] You had Compuserve
[00:10:37] You had Prodigy
[00:10:38] You had all these other kind of subgroups and things
[00:10:40] But MySpace was kind of the first big one
[00:10:43] Before that you had dial-up bulletin boards Jay
[00:10:45] Yeah BBS's that's right
[00:10:47] Anyway I bring that up because it's got a rich history
[00:10:49] Believe it or not radio
[00:10:50] Was kind of the first social media network
[00:10:53] Yep call in people could call in
[00:10:55] And talk to the host and debate with other people
[00:10:59] Before that I guess was just the written word right
[00:11:02] Yeah
[00:11:03] Once the printing press came
[00:11:05] Anyway I just find that interesting
[00:11:07] And I think we're still in this discussion about what's best
[00:11:09] And I think people are starting to gravitate towards different things
[00:11:12] As the technology matures
[00:11:15] You know if you want long form stuff
[00:11:17] People are starting to go to radio and podcasts more
[00:11:19] If you want shorts
[00:11:21] People are starting to go to video more
[00:11:23] If you want to be first to the news
[00:11:24] People are basically sticking with text and simple graphics
[00:11:26] To like an X or a Twitter
[00:11:28] And Facebook is starting to kind of go away to Instagram
[00:11:31] Pretty much a graphical just picture version of Facebook
[00:11:35] Kind of right
[00:11:37] Yeah but I know it's got its differences
[00:11:39] It's got some differences in how people share
[00:11:41] How people interconnect
[00:11:44] It's not as open so much as Facebook
[00:11:46] It's more for people and their groups
[00:11:49] You know you can like hide your profile
[00:11:53] And it's not as it's not so much
[00:11:56] Facebook is like a phone book sort of
[00:11:58] Everybody's there and you do have more controls
[00:12:00] Over what you actually display and what you share
[00:12:02] With people you don't know
[00:12:04] But Instagram has done that even more so
[00:12:06] And I think it's probably why it clicks more with the younger generation
[00:12:10] Well and that really kind of debates the question
[00:12:12] What is the future going to look like
[00:12:14] What are the social networks going to look like
[00:12:16] And the reason I'm asking this or bringing this up
[00:12:18] Is because I've got some friends that are trying to build
[00:12:20] A social network of sorts
[00:12:22] And somebody's like well you can't just build a Twitter replacement
[00:12:24] Because it's not fully functional enough
[00:12:26] And other people are like it's got to be pictures
[00:12:28] Like Instagram and others are like no it's got to be text like Twitter
[00:12:31] And somebody else is like no you got to have audio
[00:12:34] You got to have radio or audio and somebody else is like no you got to have video
[00:12:36] Man you got to somebody else is like look we need payments in there
[00:12:39] We need this and that and as they try to build these ecosystems
[00:12:42] And find out what people like and don't like and everything else
[00:12:44] It's tough
[00:12:46] And then it used to be where people tried to do their own vertical kind of agenda
[00:12:51] Or vertical idea ours is text if you're Twitter back in the day
[00:12:54] Or this and that
[00:12:56] And they're trying to say it's got to be a whole ecosystem
[00:12:58] It can't just be a specific niche need right
[00:13:00] That's interesting too
[00:13:02] Yeah and you start to blur the lines of what is social media
[00:13:04] Because then is WeChat and Telegram
[00:13:08] And WhatsApp or you know is that social media
[00:13:11] Most people thought those as being messenger platforms
[00:13:14] But in a lot of ways things like WeChat and China
[00:13:16] That is the internet for a lot of people
[00:13:18] You got payments you got everything all on that one platform
[00:13:21] Yeah for sure people are also starting to use Slack
[00:13:24] In the beginning Slack was kind of a chat client too
[00:13:26] Then it became a business client
[00:13:28] Now it's like hey you can do meetings and audio and video
[00:13:30] And you can just chat with somebody and then press a button
[00:13:34] And pretty soon you're in a video conference
[00:13:36] And then press another button and pretty soon you can take that contact
[00:13:39] And add it to your database
[00:13:41] Anyway I'm just saying this stuff is morphing fast
[00:13:43] And then they're adding literal AI to every bit of these things now too
[00:13:46] Like Zoom is going to have an AI client
[00:13:48] And well Zoom was traditionally a video conferencing service
[00:13:52] But now if they add AI to it what does that mean
[00:13:54] Zoom added phone lines and now you can get a VoIP phone line in your Zoom
[00:13:58] And well if you get a VoIP phone line and you can chat
[00:14:01] You can have meetings and you can do video and what's next
[00:14:04] An equivalent of email or a Slack kind of a
[00:14:06] Well they've already got chat in it so now that kind of merges
[00:14:09] And then if you say well okay I can archive my chats forever
[00:14:13] Is it like email? Well not really
[00:14:16] So we're blurring all that you know radio used to be radio
[00:14:19] Now you call radio but it's audio and it's on the internet
[00:14:21] Is it radio? Well not in the radio sense
[00:14:23] Your phone now it's a what is it
[00:14:26] It's not really a phone at all
[00:14:28] That's one of the least functions
[00:14:29] Use it very little for actual phone calls now
[00:14:32] I can't even hardly get anybody coming back these days Jay
[00:14:35] Right, don't dare call somebody without texting them
[00:14:38] You gotta text them first or they won't even answer the phone
[00:14:41] You gotta text them and say hey it's Sand Bushman
[00:14:43] And then they'll be like we're sure not to answer
[00:14:45] Alright anyway enough of that but we brainstorm these things
[00:14:50] So you can kind of think about them and kind of
[00:14:52] You know get into the thought process about some of these things
[00:14:54] What would you like in a social media system
[00:14:57] You know personally of all the social media
[00:14:59] We've talked about this before
[00:15:00] Jay kind of picked his favorite one
[00:15:02] I kind of picked my favorite ones
[00:15:03] What was your favorite one Jay?
[00:15:04] Firstly with Telegram and probably TikTok after that
[00:15:08] Telegram in the talk?
[00:15:09] Yep
[00:15:10] What about Twitter, you're not a Twitter guy?
[00:15:13] I would probably put Twitter as number three
[00:15:15] Yeah so it's very interesting
[00:15:17] So could you create something that was like
[00:15:19] Telegram, TikTok and Twitter merged together?
[00:15:21] Why would I?
[00:15:22] Telegram, TikTok and Twitter have already been invented
[00:15:25] And they're good
[00:15:26] And I love this idea
[00:15:27] You're getting all the fun buddy
[00:15:28] I know but I love this idea of everybody
[00:15:30] And this is what really happened for social media
[00:15:32] Is everybody's gonna have an amalgamation of stuff
[00:15:35] You know I even use Facebook
[00:15:36] I use it for work
[00:15:37] I have it for a few contacts
[00:15:39] There's people I know that the only way to contact them
[00:15:41] Is on Facebook
[00:15:42] Amazingly enough
[00:15:43] But everybody will have this mesh
[00:15:46] And it's pretty good because you remember
[00:15:48] I don't know a month or couple of months ago
[00:15:50] When Facebook went down
[00:15:51] And everybody was like oh my gosh
[00:15:53] But if you have Telegram
[00:15:54] You have all these other options
[00:15:55] You've got WhatsApp
[00:15:56] You've got whatever
[00:15:57] Which that may have gone down to you at the time
[00:15:59] Because it's related to Facebook
[00:16:01] But you've got options
[00:16:03] And I think there's some good things
[00:16:05] To having things diversified like that
[00:16:07] Not putting all your eggs in one basket
[00:16:09] Technologically
[00:16:10] Because if something goes down
[00:16:12] Or something has a problem
[00:16:13] Or something gets shut down
[00:16:14] By a regulator or whatever
[00:16:16] Or even a cyber criminal or something
[00:16:18] You've got options and you still have communication
[00:16:20] This brings up the next story
[00:16:22] That kind of relates to this
[00:16:23] It's kind of an interesting twist
[00:16:24] I thought I'd bring to the table
[00:16:26] The headline says the shift
[00:16:28] Spotting a bug
[00:16:32] That may have been meant to cripple
[00:16:34] The internet
[00:16:35] Kevin Roos brings us the piece
[00:16:37] They say the internet
[00:16:39] And anybody who works IT
[00:16:41] In the trenches
[00:16:43] Will tell you
[00:16:44] The internet is not a smooth
[00:16:46] Well-oiled machine
[00:16:47] In fact it's a mess
[00:16:49] It's a patchwork
[00:16:51] That has been assembled over decades
[00:16:53] And it's held together with a digital equivalent of
[00:16:56] Tape and bubblegum
[00:16:58] That's for sure
[00:16:59] I just
[00:17:01] Much of it relies on open source software, Jay
[00:17:04] And it's thanklessly maintained by an army
[00:17:08] Of volunteer programmers who pitch
[00:17:10] Or fix the bugs
[00:17:12] Patch the holes and make sure that the whole thing
[00:17:14] Actually stays afloat
[00:17:17] It's responsible for trillions of dollars
[00:17:19] In economic reality though
[00:17:22] And cyber researchers are saying
[00:17:24] Hey man, this is serious business
[00:17:26] They're hailing this
[00:17:30] FRUEND
[00:17:32] How do you say that last name, Jay?
[00:17:33] Frund?
[00:17:34] Yeah, I would say that
[00:17:35] FRUEND
[00:17:37] Frund
[00:17:38] I guess he's a hero because this guy
[00:17:41] I guess they're calling him the big nerd
[00:17:45] Anyway
[00:17:47] He basically is a coder
[00:17:49] And he's a very private person
[00:17:51] That just sits in front of a computer every day
[00:17:53] He's nobody special
[00:17:55] But he all of a sudden
[00:17:57] Discovered a hole
[00:17:59] And it says
[00:18:01] What's the name of this guy?
[00:18:03] Discovered a hole
[00:18:05] And it said
[00:18:07] I didn't see him urgent at first
[00:18:09] So I kind of filed it away
[00:18:10] But a few weeks later
[00:18:11] While we're running more tests at home
[00:18:12] He's like, wait a minute now
[00:18:14] There's an application called SSH
[00:18:17] Which is used to shell into computers, right?
[00:18:20] Yep
[00:18:21] He says it was using more processing power
[00:18:24] Than normally
[00:18:25] He's like, what the heck is happening here?
[00:18:27] So he dug into this thing and stuff like that
[00:18:29] And it turns out that he says
[00:18:31] Why is it using more processing power than normal?
[00:18:34] He traced the issue
[00:18:37] Back to a set of data compression tools
[00:18:42] Called XvUtils
[00:18:44] Or XzUtils
[00:18:50] And wondered if it was related
[00:18:53] Don't worry if these names are great to you
[00:18:55] They say, all you gotta remember
[00:18:57] Is that these are all small pieces
[00:18:59] Of Linux operating system
[00:19:02] Which is probably the most important piece
[00:19:04] Of open source software in the world
[00:19:07] So the internet's really ran on Linux
[00:19:09] And Unix and that kind of stuff
[00:19:10] Just so everybody knows
[00:19:12] Okay
[00:19:14] But
[00:19:17] The vast majority of the world
[00:19:19] Servers, even those by banks
[00:19:22] Are used by this Linux system
[00:19:24] Government, hospitals
[00:19:26] I mean banks
[00:19:28] 500 countries run on Linux
[00:19:29] Which is pretty much
[00:19:32] You know, very secure
[00:19:34] And they say that it's security
[00:19:35] Relates to global importance
[00:19:36] In other words, this is a big deal
[00:19:38] Right? Well this guy just discovered
[00:19:39] This whole bug day
[00:19:42] Like other open or popular
[00:19:44] Open source software
[00:19:46] Linux gets updated all the time
[00:19:49] And they say most bugs are the results
[00:19:50] Of quote, innocent mistakes
[00:19:53] Right?
[00:19:54] But when Mr. However you say this guy's name
[00:19:57] Looked closely at the source code
[00:20:00] He said hey, it had been
[00:20:02] He thought intentionally tampered with
[00:20:06] Someone planted malicious code
[00:20:09] In this utils deal
[00:20:14] XZUtils
[00:20:18] He's like hey man this has been
[00:20:19] Intentionally tampered with
[00:20:20] He rolled it out
[00:20:22] The code known as a backdoor
[00:20:24] Allows creators to hijack your SSH connections
[00:20:27] And secretly run their own code
[00:20:29] On your machine
[00:20:34] In the cyber security world
[00:20:38] A database engineer
[00:20:40] Inevitably finding a backdoor
[00:20:43] Is kind of like a bakery guy
[00:20:46] Smelling a fresh baking loaf of bread
[00:20:49] In other words it's like oh man
[00:20:50] This is an awesome find and stuff
[00:20:51] Right?
[00:20:54] Anyway this guy basically became
[00:20:55] A rock star overnight
[00:20:56] Because he discovered this thing Jay
[00:20:59] That's a huge problem
[00:21:02] The whole world runs on Linux
[00:21:04] And SSH is exactly how they get back
[00:21:07] And forth between remote systems
[00:21:10] And that's, you know that could be catastrophic
[00:21:13] Now depending on how prevalent this
[00:21:16] XZUtils is into other
[00:21:20] Installs and stuff but that matters also
[00:21:22] But does it surprise me though
[00:21:24] They call this supply chain poisoning
[00:21:26] Where people will get in
[00:21:28] And they'll introduce a couple of coders
[00:21:30] That literally got in there
[00:21:31] Made friends started adding to code
[00:21:33] Everything they do is legitimate
[00:21:34] Legitimate legitimate
[00:21:35] And then all of a sudden they just
[00:21:36] Slip this into the backdoor
[00:21:37] And nobody knew it
[00:21:38] And then this one guy just kind of
[00:21:39] Discovered it
[00:21:40] They say it's kind of like
[00:21:41] Poisoning the yeast supply
[00:21:42] When it comes to bread
[00:21:43] Yeah exactly
[00:21:44] Like whoa
[00:21:46] Anyway I just thought I'd bring
[00:21:47] That to your attention because
[00:21:48] It's a little bit too techie for most people
[00:21:50] But all you gotta know is hey man
[00:21:52] The systems that run virtually the whole world
[00:21:55] Were intentionally spiked with a bug
[00:21:57] A backdoor and just this random average
[00:22:00] Nobody, and I'm not saying nobody is a person
[00:22:03] But I'm just saying nobody coder
[00:22:04] Discovered it
[00:22:05] He doubted his own first findings
[00:22:06] He's like this can't be
[00:22:07] Come on
[00:22:08] But the more he looked at it the more
[00:22:09] And then he shared it with somebody else
[00:22:10] And they're like oh my gosh
[00:22:11] You're right
[00:22:12] Now this guy's a hero for vetting it
[00:22:13] And finding it
[00:22:14] And hopefully solving it Jay
[00:22:16] Yeah this happens or can happen
[00:22:19] With a lot of things
[00:22:20] Any software that you have that
[00:22:21] Automatically updates
[00:22:22] Maybe you have notepad plus plus
[00:22:24] Or Dropbox or anything that
[00:22:27] Your files, Zilla, whatever
[00:22:28] A program it could even be
[00:22:30] You know LibreOffice, Microsoft Office
[00:22:32] Things that are updating
[00:22:34] If somebody can get into the
[00:22:38] The root system that's updating that
[00:22:40] Or get some kind of bug
[00:22:41] Or some kind of backdoor in there
[00:22:42] They can get backdoors on all kinds
[00:22:44] Of machines and they can get
[00:22:45] Propagated out and people don't know about it
[00:22:47] And you can be
[00:22:48] You can have everything locked down
[00:22:50] And tightened up
[00:22:51] And still get malware on your computer
[00:22:53] Unbeknownst to you because of some update
[00:22:55] From a company that you trusted
[00:22:58] Because they had a breach on their end
[00:23:00] Yeah anyway he says
[00:23:02] They took a lot of painstaking efforts
[00:23:04] To cover their tracks
[00:23:05] That's why he didn't notice it at first
[00:23:07] And he kind of stumbled
[00:23:08] This is the last kind of interesting
[00:23:10] Point that I'll make about this
[00:23:11] He really stumbled across it
[00:23:12] And at first he doubted his own
[00:23:14] He looked at it and he was like
[00:23:15] There's a backdoor here and then he was like
[00:23:17] Ah man it just can't be
[00:23:18] So it took him several weeks to even
[00:23:20] Trust himself to even tell anybody about it
[00:23:22] Jay
[00:23:23] That makes sense
[00:23:24] And you want to
[00:23:25] You better double check yourself before you go
[00:23:26] Per claiming that something's got a backdoor in it
[00:23:28] And you know
[00:23:30] Make yourself look like a fool
[00:23:31] Yeah he wants to be the guy that gets kind of
[00:23:33] Looked like a fool like oh my gosh
[00:23:35] It isn't true or whatever
[00:23:36] And so he doubted it
[00:23:37] But he finally you know
[00:23:38] And everybody's lauding him as a hero now
[00:23:40] And the good news is
[00:23:41] What she is
[00:23:43] He is a hero
[00:23:44] But what I find interesting is
[00:23:45] Someone did this intentionally
[00:23:48] And you know they clearly
[00:23:51] Spent a lot of time trying to hide
[00:23:52] What they were doing he said
[00:23:53] And that's why it was so convoluted
[00:23:55] And hard to kind of understand
[00:23:56] And deal with anything else
[00:23:58] But the good news is
[00:23:59] It got discovered
[00:24:00] That is the
[00:24:01] In my opinion to a great degree
[00:24:03] The value of open source software
[00:24:05] Is he gonna get it
[00:24:06] If you have a closed source software
[00:24:07] Nobody would have probably known Jay
[00:24:08] Yeah but is this guy
[00:24:09] Who's just twirling away
[00:24:10] Is he gonna get some kind of bug bounty
[00:24:12] Or whatever
[00:24:13] If it's open source software he may not
[00:24:14] I don't think he will
[00:24:15] I mean I think he should
[00:24:16] But I don't think he will
[00:24:17] Yeah
[00:24:18] I think there are some groups out there
[00:24:20] That are trying to do that
[00:24:21] Bug Bounties for open source software
[00:24:23] And I think that's a great idea
[00:24:24] And the more we do it the better
[00:24:25] In my humble opinion
[00:24:26] And I think the big corporate world
[00:24:28] That's using a lot of this open source
[00:24:29] Software in many of their projects
[00:24:30] Should be the ones that just
[00:24:31] In the good of the community
[00:24:32] Kind of fund that exercise
[00:24:33] Because it benefits everyone
[00:24:37] Alright thanks for being along
[00:24:38] Man hopefully that wasn't too technical
[00:24:39] For you
[00:24:40] But I'm telling you it's pretty cool
[00:24:41] This guy just discovered it
[00:24:42] And nothing else
[00:24:43] Thanks for being alongside
[00:24:44] NBITechGuys.com
[00:24:46] Is our podcast site
[00:24:47] NetworkProvidersInc.com
[00:24:48] Making a great tech day