Radio Show Hour 2 – 07/07/2025

[00:00:13] Broadcasting live from atop the Rocky Mountains, the crossroads of the West, you are listening to the Liberty Roundtable Radio Talk Show. All right, happy to have you along my fellow Americans, Sam Bushman live on your radio, hard-hitting news the networks refuse to use, no doubt, continues now. This is the broadcast for July the 7th, the year of our Lord, 2025, promoting God, family,

[00:00:39] country, protecting life, liberty, and property using the checks and balances brilliantly put in place in the supreme law of the land is our guide. We reject revolution unless it's a Jesus revolution. Then we're in because we follow the Prince of Peace. Dr. Scott Bradley with me first hour. Check that out as soon as the show's up at LibertyRoundTable.com and LovingLiberty.net. Up to bat now, our dear friend Lowell Nelson, CampaignForLiberty.org, doing a phenomenal job. Hope you and your family had a delightful Fourth of July and welcome to the show, sir. Well, thank you, Sam. Sam, it's good to be back.

[00:01:10] Yeah, we enjoyed the Fourth back in St. Louis, the gateway to the west. Went up in the monument, you know, the archway there. Yes, sir. Went a trip up and back and saw the town of St. Louis from 600 feet up. That's about two football fields high. It's way up there. Take your breath away when you look down at the ground from that high up.

[00:01:34] And then, of course, saw a bunch of history, a bunch of museums. We saw the zoo, the city center. We just celebrated our Independence Day by being independent and leaving, you know, our usual haunts and going back to see a place in the United States we'd never seen before. So that was our Fourth. Enjoyed it very much. Thank you, Sam. What a tremendous opportunity, ladies and gentlemen.

[00:02:04] Now, Dr. Kirk Moore. People don't know who he is. Let's start there, Lowell. Well, Dr. Kirk Moore, he's a physician, a heroic physician, really. He is in court beginning today. He's being prosecuted by the feds on four charges on fraud, conspiracy to commit fraud, counterfeiting, and destruction of government property.

[00:02:35] Now, why is this all coming down on him? Well, the back story on this is that during the COVID-19 scandemic, Dr. Kirk Moore was being, you know, friends, close friends, associates that go to him for help, and he began treating people with ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine. And remember, this is back when, you know, in 2020 when people were scared

[00:03:04] and they didn't quite know what to do. And he looked at all of the evidence, looked at all the symptoms, and he knew that, you know, okay, ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, they're going to help. And so he treated hundreds of people that way in 2020. And, of course, that raised some eyebrows at the medical establishment

[00:03:30] because they did not want people being treated successfully. You know, they wanted to push their drugs of choice because they would make a whole lot more money, you know, pushing remdesivir and other, you know, drugs that, you know, that got them a lot more money.

[00:03:54] And they didn't want something simple like ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine to catch on. Now, this is happening all over the country, of course. Dr. Kirk Moore was not the only one who was treating people with ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, but he was one. And then in late 2020 and in 21, when the clot shot came out,

[00:04:22] of course, the reaction to this scam was worse than the scam itself. And people who began getting the clot shots began, you know, the number of injuries reported to VAERS database shot up. I mean, I think in one month they had more accidents, more injuries reported to VAERS in one month because of the COVID kill shot

[00:04:51] than all of the previous 20 years put together. I mean, it was incredible. I remember looking at some of the graphs, and you probably did too, Sam. And many of our listeners probably watched this transpire too. And so we knew instinctively, and we also knew from the VAERS data, that the clot shot was doing more damage than good among those who received it.

[00:05:16] And so people, and then, of course, came the lockdowns, right? And people were being commanded to go get the clot shot in order to travel, right? I mean, you couldn't fly in an airplane unless you'd gotten it or enter a government facility, unless you got the kill shot. And so people went to Dr. Kirk Moore and asked for, you know, a saline shot,

[00:05:46] which is, of course, is basically a placebo. They asked for the placebo in order that they could, you know, I guess say that they got a shot for COVID and, therefore, they could keep working. They could keep their jobs. They could continue to provide for their families. They could get on an airplane and travel about the country, right, like free people should be able to do.

[00:06:12] Well, and by the way, Kirk and his patients, they did this all with full knowledge. He didn't charge his patients, right, for this service that he provided for them. And they knew exactly what they were getting, that they were getting a placebo, not the kill shot, you know, not the gene therapy. Well, this really raised the ire of the feds, right?

[00:06:41] And so they came after him, and he spent, I believe, 22 days in jail at one point and then got out again. And now he's being prosecuted. This is happening at a federal courthouse up in Salt Lake City, downtown Salt Lake City. And today is the first day.

[00:07:03] Now, there was a big rally this morning at 8 o'clock there outside the federal courthouse, the 350 South Main Street there in Salt Lake City. And it was sponsored by We Are the People, which is a group here in Utah. And they were hoping to get more than 1,000 people there at the rally. They had speakers lined up to speak.

[00:07:32] Jason Preston, who hosts the We Are the People podcast, he was going to speak. Also, Dr. Moore himself, before going into the courthouse, he was going to speak. Also, his son. We also had Dr. Robert Scott Bell, a 25-year radio host and a 30-year homeopathic practitioner. He was going to speak. And also, Mike Schultz, Sam, Speaker of the Utah House of Representatives, was slated to speak.

[00:08:01] Now, I was in work meetings, so I was not privy to that. I don't know if it was broadcast or what. But anyway, at least five people. And I think there were some other legislators that were going to go up there and speak. And so that's kind of the story on the rally this morning. And we need to keep an eye on this. The headline I have for this is as follows.

[00:08:27] Dr. Kirk Moore goes on trial today for not injecting poison. Then it says, brave doctor faces 35 years for not killing his patients. I mean, that's really what's going on. And where the Donald is, where Pam Bondi is, where Cash Patel and the FBI are to do something about this and stop this is beyond me. Yeah.

[00:08:53] Well, and you know, it is the case that some of our legislators flew back to Washington, D.C., talked with Robert F. Kennedy's office, talked to Mike Kennedy's office staff, talked to Mike Lee's staff, and trying to get these federal charges dropped. They just want him to go away, right, because he doesn't need this.

[00:09:19] And so they've been working behind the scenes now for the past several weeks trying to stop this from going forward. And they're still working on it, by the way. They haven't given up the hope just because this trial is moving ahead. They're still trying to – I guess what I'm saying is that there's a good chance that the Donald will be made aware of this.

[00:09:47] And even if Dr. Moore is convicted, it's possible that Trump could pardon him for, you know, doing no harm. That's the Hippocratic oath, right, to first do no harm. And that's exactly what Dr. Moore did. He did no harm, you know. And so he likens this – I listened to a podcast last night where he was – it was about a 25-minute podcast, very interesting.

[00:10:15] Dr. Moore was on it with Jason Preston and Robert Scott Bell. And Dr. Moore likened – he gave an analogy. He said it's like he bought – it's like you go buy some light bulbs from General Electric. And you don't follow the directions that – Go ahead and skip the break. And so then you don't follow the directions that came with the light bulb to screw them into the outlet in your room.

[00:10:42] You instead – you take them out for target practice, you know, in your backyard with a BB gun and you dispose of them that way, right? And he says that's basically what happened in his case, right? The government provided these kill shots and he disposed of them.

[00:11:04] And that's why he's being charged with destruction of property because he disposed of these gene therapy injections. You know, he did with them what he – what his patients wanted done with them. He disposed of them. And now he's being charged with destruction of government property. Well, that wasn't – I mean, he – and he didn't charge his clients.

[00:11:30] So there's no fraud involved, even though he's being charged with fraud and conspiracy to commit fraud because his patients knew full well what they were doing. And so it's – you know, I hope to be able to get up there and listen to some of the trial. But, you know, I wasn't able to go up this morning. But one other thing I want to mention, Sam, is that there was a doctor in Germany who treated 96 – nearly 9,600 patients.

[00:12:01] He – this doctor, he or she, I don't know which, but this doctor in Germany gave a saline injection, basically a placebo, to 9,600 of his patients. And his patients thought they were getting the kill shot. But the doctor, without telling his patients, gave them the saline placebo instead because he knew that the kill shot would harm them.

[00:12:29] Now, he did this without the patient's knowledge. And what did he get? I think he got a fine. He got suspended for six months, and then he got his license back, and he had a small fine to pay. That's it. That's it. You know, and obviously Germany has a different set of rules than we have here in the U.S. But if you look at what Dr. Kirk Moore did with the full knowledge and fully informed patients versus what this German doctor did, you know, the difference is night and day.

[00:13:00] So – Well, and the bottom line is, hey, why is this a federal issue in the first place? Yeah. You know, everything seems to be a federal crime these days, number one. Number two, where is Pam Bondi and Donald Trump to say, hold on a minute, you know what? A lot of the doctors have won the right to give people ivermectin. Uh-huh. And we found out that the – not the FCC, the – what's the health group called? Oh, the world – the CDC?

[00:13:30] Yeah, the CDC has been caught literally fabricating evidence regarding the ivermectin in the first place. And so with all that information on the table now, in hindsight being 20-20, even Robert RFKJR now has put something in place that says, hey, if you have heart damage from COVID, we're going to take this seriously. If the clock shot gives you – so they know there's problems here. How come they're not defending this doctor? I just don't get it. Yeah, I don't either, Sam.

[00:13:59] They should be – and you hit upon another point that I haven't even spent any time on at all, and that is that this is a state issue, right? What Dr. Kirk Moore did in treating his patients, that's a – very clearly is a domestic issue. There's no warrant. There's no authority in the Constitution.

[00:14:19] In other words, the states did not grant or vest in the general government any authority at all to prosecute something like – even if it was medical malpractice, right? There's no authority in the Constitution. The states did not grant that to the general government. They granted the ability to prosecute three crimes.

[00:14:40] Those crimes were treason, which has a very specific definition, piracy on the high seas, and counterfeiting our currency, counterfeiting the gold and silver that was our country's currency in the beginning. Those three crimes are punishable, and the federal government may prosecute those three.

[00:15:06] But, you know, medical malpractice, even if you're to go that far, was not one of the crimes that the feds can prosecute. And like gun control, the states did not vest in the general government any authority whatsoever to prosecute a gun control law. So all of the gun control laws that are on the books passed by Congress over the years, they're null and void, you know,

[00:15:34] and they should be treated as such, and the states should not help to enforce those gun control laws, which is, of course, exactly what Richard Mack did in the 1990s there in Graham County, Arizona. He refused to enforce the Brady Handgun Control Bill because, you know, that's a federal law, and the state is not a party to that and should not be helping the feds prosecute this,

[00:16:03] which was out of bounds for the feds to even pass the law in the first place. And it's a state issue, a domestic issue, and we need more states to stand up and be sovereign on this issue. And that's why I'm so encouraged, Sam, that Mike Schultz, Speaker of the House, the Utah House of Representatives, attended this rally this morning and spoke at it, advocating for justice, advocating for legislative accountability.

[00:16:28] He should be the leader here in the state of Utah telling the feds to take a hike, get the heck out of Dodge City here because they're prosecuting one of our Utah citizens with a federal statute that is patently illegal, it's void, it's null and void, and should be treated as such by the state of Utah.

[00:16:53] And so we're challenging Cox, our governor, Spencer Cox, our attorney general, Derek Brown, and other legislators. We're urging them to attend and publicly support Dr. Kirk Moore. And I pray they get it done, but I don't have a lot of faith in the Justice Department or the FBI. I don't have a lot of faith in President Trump anymore. I don't have faith in the state of Utah that they'll do anything right. They passed the big, beautiful bill, which is a disaster.

[00:17:20] And now basically anybody that stood for proper or for the correct view on the bill, which is we're spending ourselves into oblivion, literally increasing the deficit by $5 trillion, $3.8 trillion increasing the debt. I mean, it's just out of control. Well, the big, beautiful bill is really for the military-industrial complex, $150 million more, making it a trillion dollars for war. And we're just getting started.

[00:17:49] I mean, this thing just absolutely sends us into oblivion. And Ron Paul wrote an article about this, highlighting this very problem here. And the only people that are being attacked, not the Democrats, the only people being attacked are the constitutional Republicans that wanted to see truth to power, wanted to see us cut expenses. We've raised the debt ceiling by $5 trillion. I mean, we're out of control on this thing. Ron Paul bringing sanity to the discussion, Lowell. That's right, Sam. He called this the military-industrial complex.

[00:18:19] And I added the word congressional in there. That's what I'm calling it, the military-industrial-congressional complex, because I think we need to get into the habit of tying Congress into this complex. It's not just the armaments manufacturers that are benefiting from this. It's the members of Congress who vote for more war who benefit because their campaign coffers are filled with money from the armaments manufacturers

[00:18:49] who benefit from these sweet dills. And remember, the House of Representatives are the decision-makers. They're the ones that constitutionally control the purse trains, right? That's exactly right, yeah. And they are rewarded handsomely by the armament manufacturers whenever they pass this kind of a bill, this big, beautiful bill, right? It's got what, like you said, it raised the military spending, $150 billion.

[00:19:17] So now it's over a trillion dollars, the Federal Reserve notes, really. But that's more than the next nine countries, the military budget for the next nine countries combined. And so it really is, it's just stupid, it's wasteful spending that's going on here. And you know the funny thing about this, Dan? Hold on, not only is it stupid and wasteful and all that kind of stuff,

[00:19:46] but it's murderous spending, though. It literally commits acts of war all over the world, and dead people, innocent dead people are the result of this. Let's not act like it's just bad spending, like, oh my gosh, they're being foolish. No, people are dying as a result of this. The regime changes are happening as a result of this. Innocent people suffer, we destroy nations, then we build them up again, nation building. I mean, this is just disaster on steroids of what happens with this money.

[00:20:15] And members of Congress, it was kind of like a bait and switch, right? They were enticed to support this bill because of the cuts in the welfare programs. But these cuts are not scheduled to even begin taking effect until after 29, you know, after Trump leaves the White House.

[00:20:40] And so basically that's a big, big invitation for the Democrats to win the midterms and the next presidential election so that they can reverse these cuts in the welfare programs, like Medicaid and food stamps, right? And so all these Republicans who say that they're fiscal conservatives, they've voted for this big, bad bill because of all the so-called good things in the bill.

[00:21:08] But those so-called good things don't even take effect until after Trump leaves office. Well, hold on. If at all, though. If at all. How many congressional years do we have between now and when those things are supposed to happen? They can be overturned or changed or updated or whatever you want to call it. Super easy. And you've probably got four or five congressional years before then, right? Yeah. And so it's a bait and switch.

[00:21:36] The vote this time, instead of one vote difference, I think it was like 219 to 213 or something like that. So there's like three or four votes different. No, it was 218 to 214 in the House. 218. Yeah, that's right. 218 to 214. And it required J.D. Vance to create a tiebreaker in the Senate to get it passed. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:21:59] And so here's where I really wish that my U.S. representative had stood up with Massey and voted against this big, bad bill. I just don't understand why or how he's being persuaded to vote for such a, I don't know, pile driver, such a boondoggle as this. Anyway, now, Ron Paul writes this.

[00:22:30] Well, I need to give you a little bit more background. Some of the money in this big, bad bill will be spent on securing the border, which is good. However, it will also help to pay for the military to do domestic law enforcement, which includes enforcing immigration laws. And so what I think that is, Sam, I call that the proverbial camel's nose under the tent, right? Because they're going to use military personnel to enforce a domestic immigration law, right?

[00:23:00] Because doing that right now is really popular, right? Because we've got all these illegal immigrants, illegal aliens pouring into the country. And so it's really popular to stop them and to use the military to do that. That's the proverbial camel's nose. Because if they can use military to enforce domestic immigration law, then that gives them the excuse or the precedent to use military personnel to enforce other domestic laws.

[00:23:29] And before you know it, Sam, we'll be living in a full-blown police state, military personnel all over the place. And the reason this is bad, Ron Paul writes, is, quote, Soldiers are trained to view people as potential enemies, not as innocent civilians to be protected. Introducing this mindset into domestic law enforcement will lead to abuses of liberty, end quote. Sam?

[00:23:59] All I can tell you, ladies and gentlemen, is the big, beautiful bill is an absolute budget-busting boondoggle. I'm telling you that right now. It is disaster. Ron Paul is spot on. Thomas Massey is spot on. Elon Musk, yours truly. Lowell Nelson, Scott Bradley, everyone's calling this out. And Trump, instead of listening to his friends, listening to those who are constitutional, he's attacking every one of them. He threatened to deport Elon Musk.

[00:24:29] Well, Elon Musk is a United States citizen. So if you can deport Elon Musk, can you deport Lowell Nelson and Sam Bushman? Yep. Oh, boy, ladies and gentlemen. I mean, he's going off the rails here on this one. All over the big, beautiful bill. What a disgrace. Hang tight. More in seconds. Liberty Roundtable Live. Liberty Newswire. You're listening to Liberty News Radio.

[00:25:01] Breaking news this hour at townhall.com. I'm Bob Agnew in Washington. An active shooter armed with tactical gear and a rifle reportedly opened fire upon Border Patrol agents. They arrived at a Border Patrol annex facility in McAllen, Texas today. That's in the Rio Grande Valley area of Texas. Fox News reporting agents and local police were turned fire, killing the gunman.

[00:25:24] According to that report, no federal agents were hit, but one McAllen police officer was struck and is in stable condition in the hospital. Authorities in Texas say at least 82 people were killed in that devastating weekend flooding along the Guadalupe River. Texas Governor Greg Abbott says there may be people missing nobody knows about. There were so many people who were just camping out, not children in camps, but adults camping out near the river. People in RVs and things like that.

[00:25:53] There are people who are missing who are not on the known confirmed missing because we don't yet know who they are. The Governor's comments are on KVUE. Listeners who wish to help in the disaster rescue effort can make donations to www.salvationarmytexas.org. House Speaker Mike Johnson says that while the one big beautiful bill is now passed after a lengthy debate,

[00:26:20] there will be even more reconciliation process bills soon. In an interview, Speaker Johnson announced, quote, we have been planning a second reconciliation bill for the fall that would be attached to the next fiscal year and then potentially one in the spring. He said, that's my plan, three reconciliation bills before this Congress is over. Johnson said this is all in an effort to, quote, deliver that America First agenda, which the people elected Congress to do. The Speaker continued, quote, the big beautiful bill is designed to uplift lower and middle class Americans

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[00:30:13] Casting live from atop the Rocky Mountains, the crossroads of the West. You are listening to the Liberty Roundtable Radio Talk Show. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. This is Lowell Nelson, riding shotgun this morning with Sam Bushman, your host here of Liberty and the Roundtable Live. Next up, we talk about Independence Day 2025. That's just this past week, right? The Independence Day celebration.

[00:30:43] Well, Judge Andrew Napolitano posted a really good column found at ronpaulinstitute.org. And he starts his column off with a very good question. He says, we are independent of London, but are we independent of Washington? Question mark? Well, I think we'd all have to answer no to his question. We are not independent of Washington, D.C., even though we should be. And so, you know, he's basically writing a column comparing today's general government

[00:31:12] with the general government envisioned by those who wrote the Constitution and those who ratified the Constitution. And I think, you know, I would have to say there's not much resemblance in answer to that question. You know, does today's government resemble the government envisioned by our founders? Well, probably not. Judge Napolitano writes, quote, When both major political parties support mass surveillance, undeclared foreign wars,

[00:31:42] and borrowing trillions of dollars a year to fund a bloated government, we can safely conclude that personal liberty in our once free society has been radically diminished and is in the twilight of its existence, end of quote. That sounds pretty dire, but maybe that's our situation today. Well, 249 years ago, Thomas Jefferson was fuming in Philadelphia because members of the Continental Congress

[00:32:10] were softening the tone of his draft of the Declaration of Independence. Not only was that declaration an indictment of King George III, but also it was a manifestation of limited government and maximum individual freedom. Well, Judge Nap in this article identifies three principal Jeffersonian values in the Declaration.

[00:32:34] Those three values are natural law, consent of the governed, and the proper role of government. So, the natural law teaches, of course, that our rights come from our humanity, and our humanity is a gift from God. And, of course, the nature of God, recognizing the origin of human freedom in the Creator, and referring to our rights as inalienable, expressly accepts the concept of natural law,

[00:33:00] and thereby rejects governmental practices today that regard the government as the fountain and origin of our rights. End of quote there. Well, Judge Nap then makes a very interesting observation. He writes that Jefferson appealed to the laws of nature and of nature's God, and then observes, you know, he could have appealed to the British tradition of individual rights. He could have appealed to the Magna Carta.

[00:33:26] He could even have appealed to the numerous acts of the British Parliament that stated, or pretended anyway, that all men are equal and that their rights are natural. But he didn't. Jefferson appealed to the laws of nature and of nature's God, because that's really where our rights originate. And, you know, that's so essential to know today. It's such a fundamental principle of liberty, to know that our rights come from our Creator, from our humanity.

[00:33:56] They don't come from government. Now, the second Jeffersonian value is consent as a governed. Jefferson argued that, quote, No government is moral or consistent with the natural law, unless it enjoys the consent of all those it governs. End quote. But consent today is a myth, just as much of government today is a myth. He writes, quote,

[00:34:48] That's a pretty strong indictment of our current government, I would say. Now, the third Jeffersonian principle is the proper role of government. And that is, quote, Not to give people whatever they want, but to protect their natural rights. Let me stop right there. See, folks, that's what government does today. They give us what we want instead of protecting our natural rights. And I love that old ad that says,

[00:35:17] The government is strong enough to, you know, big enough to give you everything you want, is also powerful enough to take everything away from you, or something like that. Well, and what's happened is immoral people in our society have learned that they can just vote largesque from the Treasury. That won't last long. It'll be the demise of the country if we allow that to continue. But Trump literally said there's everything for everybody in this big, beautiful bill. Yeah, yeah. Satisfy everybody.

[00:35:45] So, and Jefferson knew this, right? The founders knew this. And that's why they set up our government the way they did, with the states being the key watchmen on the watchtowers, to stop the federal government from eroding and undermining our liberties, taking our property and killing in our name. But that's what happened because the state government's been asleep. We, the citizenry, have been asleep while this takeover has occurred.

[00:36:15] Now, Jefferson wrote this. He says, Whenever the government, even one consented to by the governed, is destructive of natural rights, then the people may morally alter or abolish it. Right? That's the third Jeffersonian principle, is the proper role of government. Right? And if they are not protecting our natural rights, then we have not only a right, but a duty to alter or to abolish that government.

[00:36:44] So finally, Judge Knapp asks this question. Quote, Do you know anyone today who has consented to the monster government we have today? A government that claims out of its own belly that it can right any wrong, regulate any behavior, tax any event, steal any property, transfer any wealth, borrow any amount, and kill any person? End of quote. Well, And he used to add, or imprison any person? Yeah. Because sometimes,

[00:37:12] sometimes the prison's worse than the, worse than the, going to the other side, you know? Yeah, that's for sure. Well, I know people who are deluded, such that they believe that they're represented in government, and that their property is protected by government. But I don't really know anyone who truly understands liberty, who also claims that government protects that liberty. I think, Sam, you'd agree with me. I think there are certain liberties we still have, but most have been undermined,

[00:37:42] eroded, and lost, sadly so. And most, and most are shoehorned into a two-class system these days, where if you're the underclass, they apply to you at any time anybody wants to, whether it's legitimate, justified, proper due process or not. And the other class is above it all, and it doesn't matter what they do. You look at Bill and Hillary Clinton. Hey, there's no accountability. Now we just find out that even Cash Patel is saying, hey, Jeffrey Epstein's fine. We're going to bury all the information we have. We're going to, you know, I mean, on one hand,

[00:38:11] we've got Jeffrey Epstein, where they say, hey, he didn't, you know, he didn't do any of this stuff. On the other hand, they say Jeffrey Epstein didn't even have a client list. He didn't have retribution or blackmail anybody. But if the FBI memo concludes that Jeffrey Epstein did not have a client list, why did Pam Bondi say the list was sitting on her desk? I mean, see, this is what we're doing. We've got two classes of people, even Jeffrey Epstein, even though he's supposedly dead, he's got greater rights than you and I do while we're alive.

[00:38:42] Yeah. Yeah. It's really a sad state of affairs. Now, Judge Knapp then returns to where he started, which is with London, right? He reminds us that the UTS military budget now exceeds a trillion dollars, which they're actually Federal Reserve notes, the fiat money that we use nowadays, but exceeds a trillion of those notes, which is larger than those of the next nine countries combined.

[00:39:38] I think I mentioned that earlier. That was accomplished with God's help. Do you think God would want it restored and preserved today? Yeah, I think so. I really do. I think he would want us to restore and preserve the government that he helped to put together in the 1770s and 80s and 90s. That's what I think, Sam. Now, Judge Napolitano waxes a little poetic in his concluding paragraph. I thought it was worth repeating. Quote,

[00:40:07] Unchecked government is the arch enemy of personal liberty, and a government that rejects its founding values or that keeps persons dependent upon it rather than independent of it, one that recognizes no limits to its powers and assaults liberties of those that governs, should be altered or abolished before liberty's last gleaming becomes a long, cold darkness. End of quote. Well, Sam,

[00:40:36] I pray that we can and will restore the liberties we've lost and that America will once again be that city upon a hill. Sam? To do that, we must first turn to God Almighty and put our trust in God forever. Keep his commandments and a moral people can have a God-ordained, God-established, proper rule of government. Mom, you don't know anything about me anymore. Honey,

[00:41:06] I know you're good at math. You don't like English. I know Ryan smiled at you yesterday at school. I know your favorite color is purple. And I know you don't like mushrooms. And who can blame you? You don't like mushrooms or a fungus. And people generally try to avoid funguses. Or is it fungi? I'm never quite sure, but, you know, either way, I mean, penicillin is good. Penicillin is a mold. Huh.

[00:41:36] Well, I guess you're right. So you like penicillin, but not mushrooms. No matter what you talk about, love is what they'll hear. Mom, if we talk, will you be quiet? Love to. A thought from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Visit us at mormon.org. Are you ready to stand up for your community and support your local sheriff?

[00:42:02] Join the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association and become a vital member of the Sheriff's Citizens Posse. At cspoa.org, we empower citizens like you through weekly webinars, arming you with the knowledge to back your constitutional county sheriff. Together, we can uphold our Constitution and ensure liberty and justice for all. Your community needs you now more than ever. This is a battle. A battle between truth and deceit.

[00:42:31] A battle between forces that would enslave this country in darkness, and between a media that wants to present you with the truth. We are being censored. America's news outlets no longer provide the truth. 90% of news outlets in the United States are controlled by six corporations. The mission of the Epoch Times is to chase the truth. To ground all statements and facts. The Epoch Times dot com.

[00:43:03] Ladies and gentlemen, we need to bring back natural law, which is God-given rights. Consent of the governed. That's we, the people consenting to the actions of our government. And the proper role of government, ladies and gentlemen. And we're taught if government doesn't carry out the proper role, that at some point we need to abolish or change that government.

[00:43:27] Thomas DiLorenzo breaks out an incredible column entitled America's Forgotten Independence Movement. I think that's what we need to really push back on now using nullification via the states, reducing the size and scope of the government. That's what we've got to do, Lowell. You're right, Sam. We are not on this program advocating for the abolition of government.

[00:43:56] What we are advocating is the use, the proper use of nullification and putting the general government back in its constitutional cage. That's really what we need to do. It is exceeding its proper role. Its reach and its size is well beyond the constitutional boundaries set by the states, which, you know, the states are the ones that form this general government.

[00:44:25] And the general government should be subordinate to the states. And if the states will stand up and be sovereign and act sovereign, be the sovereigns that they were designed to be, then I really believe that we could put this general government back into its constitutional cage. And that's really what... And we can really say it in three words, Lowell. Ready? Obey the contract. Yes.

[00:44:54] Just follow the Constitution. I mean, it's all right there in black and white. It's because they've refused or, you know, gone, colored outside the lines of the Constitution that we have this bloated government that's, you know, spinning us into oblivion and killing people in our name and imprisoning the wrong people and so forth. Well, Thomas DiLorenzo writes this column talking about the independence movements, plural.

[00:45:23] There's more than one because that really fits into our Independence Day celebrations this past week. And I think our listeners will learn something new from DiLorenzo today because I know I did as I read this column yesterday. There were really three independent movements in America prior to the war to prevent southern independence from 1861 to 1865.

[00:45:48] Now, just parenthetically, most people call this war the Civil War, but it really was not that, nor was it a war between the states per se. It was a war upon the southern states by the general government. However, I do like DiLorenzo's name for this war. He calls it the War to Prevent Southern Independence. I believe it could also be called the War to Force the Southern States to Stay in the Union.

[00:46:14] That also is a name that describes that war. Well, in any case, there were three independence movements in our fledgling country before the War of 1861. The Revolutionary War was a war of secession to gain independence from the British Empire. That was the first independence movement.

[00:46:39] The second independence movement was when the New England Federalists plotted to secede from the Union, beginning with the Jefferson Presidency of 1801 and culminating with their Hartford Secession Convention of 1814, where in the end they decided to remain in the Union, confident that New Englanders could control and dominate the Union, which they did. They were right, of course.

[00:47:07] But that second independence movement, you know, they were upset with Thomas Jefferson in the White House, and so they plotted this secession movement. And, you know, that's a secession movement that's rarely discussed in history classes today. The third independence movement has mostly been forgotten, too,

[00:47:30] but it was the 1850s secession movement in the middle states, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, and Maryland. So these five states in the 1850s began talking about secession. And, you know, it's called the secession movement in the mid-Atlantic states. These five states, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, and Maryland.

[00:47:57] These states contained secessionists who wanted to join a southern confederacy, form their own confederacy of states, and to just allow the south to secede in peace. New Jersey had the largest secession movement, followed by New York City and New York State's Hudson Valley. Well, Sam, this is the first I have known of these 1850s secession movements in the middle states. I find this very interesting.

[00:48:26] Di Lorenzo writes, quote... Well, hold on, hold on. It just goes to show in history here that they understood that secession, one, was not only possible but necessary based on the Declaration of Independence. If you have the right to join, you certainly have the authority and the right to leave. But they also knew secession and the threat thereof would bring the general government back in line. So I'm not a secessionist in that I really want secession. I am a secessionist, I guess, in the sense that I want to use that as a tool to say, look, you better obey the rules.

[00:48:56] And I think it can be wisely used in that way, too. I do, too. I think Tom Woods wrote a book recently called National Divorce, or he referred to a book called National Divorce, where he talks about secession and the threat of secession oftentimes will induce the general government to stop doing what it's doing because they don't want to see the union split up. But I agree with you.

[00:49:25] I think nullification is a much better approach where the states refuse to cooperate with the feds on issues or on efforts which go beyond the authority of the feds. Anyway, Di Lorenzo, he now talks about these five movements in these five states. He says, quote,

[00:49:55] End of quote. Well, that's not what we're taught by mainstream historians, as you know. They claim there was unity in the North regarding the invasion of the South in 1861. But Edward Everett said this, quote, To expect to hold 15 states in the union by force is preposterous, too monstrous to be entertained for a moment, end quote. That's what he said in 1860.

[00:50:24] So no way are these mainstream historians correct in saying that everybody in the North wanted to invade the South and force them to stay in the union. Far from it. In Maryland, Di Lorenzo writes, quote, The majority of Maryland State Assembly favored peaceful secession. But in 1861, the Lincoln regime imprisoned all of them, thereby prohibiting them from meeting to discuss the issue of peaceful secession.

[00:50:54] At the time, most Marylanders believed that forcing a state at gunpoint to remain in the union and governed by Washington, D.C., would destroy the founders' concept of a voluntary union, end of quote. Wow. Well, Sam, what do you think? Do you think the feds would throw our Utah legislators in jail for standing up for Dr. Kirk Moore today? No, but what I do think they would do is they would target them to make sure they didn't stay elected. Yeah.

[00:51:24] Yeah. And I know that they would take them off of committees and they would basically depower, you know, decrease their power and their involvement, their authority. And depending on how hard they went, they'd be ridiculed by Donald and mocked by Donald and attacked by Donald and everything else. And this is why, you know, I used to want to give a lot of credit to what Donald does because he's done a lot of good. But, man, as far as I can tell, he's melting down. Everybody, everything he's in a fight with. The J6 prisoners got released, for example. But now many of them are homeless and can't even get a life back.

[00:51:53] And so, you know, what have we done? We've released them. But now what? I mean, the list goes on and on of the issues. How come Kirk Moore has how come Cash Patel says, oh, there's nothing wrong with Jeffrey Epstein? It's all good. He didn't have any list. What do you mean he didn't have any list? I thought when you had flights go to Lolita or this, you know, whatever, this airliner that you had to have a manifest on there. I thought that, okay, there's no way that he didn't blackmail people. To say so is just absurd these days.

[00:52:23] So we're getting to where we just can't trust anyone or anything. You can't trust Donald and you can't trust Cash Patel anymore, right? Now, people are going to be like, how dare you go against those guys? I know it's almost political suicide, isn't it? See, that's the problem. Why can't I have my own opinion? Well, and maybe that's why Michael Kennedy won't join up with Thomas Massey. I mean, there's a lot of U.S. representatives that really ought to be standing right alongside Thomas Massey.

[00:52:51] And yet Trump has put a target, a bullseye, on Massey and said, I'm going to primary you. I'm going to get somebody to run against you and I'm going to fund them and we're going to take you out. Well, he's going to deport Elon Musk, who's a United States citizen? How do you do that? Yeah, and Elon, he's behind Thomas Massey. I bet what is going to happen, Sam, is that the midterms, Trump is going to fund some big candidate to go up against Massey and Musk is going to fund Massey's campaign. It's going to be an epic battle in the state of Kentucky.

[00:53:20] That's what I'm predicting for the midterms. It's crazy. It's crazy. Well, you know, enough of this. Just be it known that in all of these five mid-Atlantic states, they favored peaceful secession. And that's not what we were taught in public school. The idea that a state can join the Union but could never leave, I mean, that's what is taught, right? Everybody, the mainstream historians say once you join the Union, you can never leave

[00:53:49] because that's what Abraham Lincoln proved in the Civil War. Well, that's just poppycock, Sam. And so thank goodness for Thomas DiLorenzo and others who have shared this part of our history, keeping it fresh in our minds, because having a correct understanding of the foundation of our republic, Sam, is essential if we want to restore it. And using principles like nullification and the threat of secession and the Declaration of Independence

[00:54:17] to true autonomy and reining in out-of-control government is the key to keeping government in check without blood, people. And that's what we pray for. We follow the Prince of Peace, and we encourage you to do the same. I testify he lives. And if we keep his commandments, he will protect us and heal our land. And that's what we need to strive for. Lowell Nelson, CampaignForLiberty.org, LibertyRoundTable.com. We're syndicated by the Loving Liberty Radio Network. God Save Our Republic.