Radio Show Hour 2 – 05/12/2025

[00:00:13] Broadcasting live from atop the Rocky Mountains, the crossroads of the West. You are listening to the Liberty Roundtable Radio Talk Show. All right. Happy to have you along, my fellow Americans. Sam Bushman live on your radio. Hard-hitting news the network refused to use, no doubt, continues now. This, my fellow Americans, is the broadcast for May 12th in the year of our Lord 2025.

[00:00:39] This is Hour 202, Promoting God, Family, Country, Protecting Life, Liberty, and Property, Using the Supreme Law of the Land, the Constitution for the United States of America as our guide. Rejecting revolution unless it's Jesus' revolution, then we're in because we follow the Prince of Peace. With me now, Lowell Nelson, CampaignForLiberty.org. Welcome back, brother. Hope you had a delightful Mother's Day with you and your family. I sure did, Sam. Thank you very much. Fun day, lots of family around.

[00:01:05] And now we get back to the fatigue of supporting Liberty, which is what Sam Adams said we've got to do. Amen to that. By the way, there's a tag team of truth-telling going on. You could say it's Sam and Lowell. You could say it's Sam and Dr. Scott Bradley. You could say it's, you know, all kind of things. But in this case, I'm referring to former Congressman Ron Paul and Judge Andrew Napolitano. These people are becoming a tag team for truth-telling, aren't they?

[00:01:35] They sure are, Sam. I just really enjoy talking about their columns every week. They write at least one each week, and they're both pretty much spot on. So I enjoy talking about it, and I learn something new every week from these two gentlemen. Very interesting. I find that fascinating, too. You know, the whole concept of the Liberty Roundtable radio talk show isn't just to hear what Sam has to say, although hopefully I bring a couple of nuggets of value to the table.

[00:02:03] But really, it's about the people that we bring on the broadcast with us. I mean, we just had Dr. Scott Bradley, one of the premier constitutionalists in the nation. Now we've got Lowell Nelson with CampaignForLiberty.org and RonPaulInstitute.com. Or no, RonPaulInstitute.org as well. Yep. CampaignForLiberty.org, RonPaulInstitute.org. Anyway, they do such a tremendous job. And so we bring, you know, Dr. Bradley's work. We bring all kinds of different people to the table for discussions.

[00:02:32] And these columns are just absolutely delivering, in my opinion, huge information. The headline says, Tariff and Spend. Ron Paul. Boy, howdy, that's what we're looking at now because they're talking about tariffs, talking about adding taxes to the rich. I don't know if you know, but Donald Trump is now thinking about taxing the rich. He doesn't know if the Republicans in Congress will go along, but he wants to tax the rich.

[00:02:59] As we talked about last hour with Dr. Scott Bradley, it's nothing but an unconstitutional abuse. This progressive income tax is part of the communist manifesto, okay? This has got to stop. And I bring this up because, hey, that's what they're talking about. They're just hoping to bring in more money and spend. They're not really looking at cutting and spending that I can see. Yeah, that's the big, big problem. They talk about cutting taxes, but they don't talk about cutting spending.

[00:03:27] Well, actually, they do talk about cutting spending, but it's always cuts in the proposed increases in the budget. It's never actual cuts. So Trump, he proposed that he cuts $163 billion out of next year's budget. Well, that's just really small potatoes. I mean, it would be great if he were able to do that. I mean, I'd prefer to go back to the Rand Paul penny plan where they cut five pennies,

[00:03:57] five actual pennies out of every dollar from the budget and make a real decrease in the amount of money appropriated for spending. I mean, that would be a true cut. But as it is, you know, Trump's talking about, well, let's just get rid of the income tax and let's just exist entirely on tariffs. But, you know, and that, you know, I'm... It's a great idea and it works. If you cut spending to the proper role of government, it would work, Lowell. Yeah, it sure would.

[00:04:23] If the general government were cut back in size and reach, then maybe it would work. But as it stands, it really doesn't have a lot of chance for passing because there are prominent Republicans in the Congress right now who have already announced their opposition to even the small cuts that Trump is proposing. And some say that he's not spending enough on the military. Well, Ron Paul writes this.

[00:04:49] He says, quote, the truth is that if the president and Congress were serious about cutting spending, they would start by slashing the Pentagon's budget. Very little of the military spending actually goes to defending the American people. Instead, much military spending goes to maintaining a global empire and lining the pockets of the military industrial, and I'm going to add congressional, complex.

[00:05:15] Does anyone believe the safety of Americans depends on the U.S. government maintaining over 700 military bases abroad? End of quote. Right? And so he really, you know, Ron Paul nails it. He then concludes his column with the astute observation that our fiscal crisis is rooted in a philosophic crisis.

[00:05:38] Quote, too many Americans have embraced the notion that the U.S. government has the moral right and competence to run the economy, run the world, and even run our lives. This system will not change until a critical mass of people embrace the ideas of liberty. Those of us who know the truth must do all we can to spread the message of liberty, peace, and prosperity. End quote. Sam?

[00:06:07] Well, this is where too many of the American people kind of believe these lies, this notion that the government has the moral right or somehow has the competence to deal with this kind of stuff. And even President Trump was, you know, belligerent enough to say, yeah, I run the United States and I pretty much run the world. And, you know, see, he thinks that. Donald made a statement like that. And this just goes to show you they don't have authority for this. It needs to stop.

[00:06:31] The fact is, if they want to cut spending, there's three areas or four areas that are like the top expenditures. They're not even touching them. In fact, they're increasing them. So if you take the top three or four biggest government expenditures and you increase them or hold the line on them, there's not a lot left. Not a lot left to cut, though. No, no, there isn't.

[00:06:55] And tell these bureaucrats, these politicians, actually, you know, cut, make real cuts in the four biggest items of the budget. It's going to, we're going to continue down this path to bankruptcy. You know, it's not going to be long, Sam. I'm going to talk about the military industrial complex, though. Literally, we're going to spend a trillion dollars on them this year. Then you talk about the interest on the debt, trillion dollars. That's two trillion. And Elon Musk said, I'm going to save two trillion. And then he came back and said, well, it may be only a trillion.

[00:07:25] And then he really came back now that he's kind of going back to his businesses. It's 165 billion, which I'll take any cut that I can get. Don't get me wrong. But my problem with it is we went from two trillion to 165 billion. And now that's in question. Yeah, because where the rubber meets the road is Congress, right? The U.S. House, they control the purse strings of the government. And if they don't make the cuts that Doge recommends, nothing gets cut.

[00:07:53] I mean, Doge can make all the recommendations in the world that it wants. But they're not even on it, though. They're working on a big, beautiful spending bill that doesn't have any real cuts in it that are substantial enough to matter, Lowell. It really doesn't. Yeah. And so Congress is fiddling while Rome burns. That's basically the story there, Sam. Well, all I know is Ron Paul nails it. He provides the solutions as well. Look, listen carefully.

[00:08:21] This system will not change until a critical mass of people demand change and insist on it. Okay? Nothing's going to happen until that happens. And I know to a lot of the people that are frustrated and want something done, you don't have enough people. Okay? Okay. You know, if we have a, you know, just say 3 million people in the state of Utah and 20 people go riot at the Capitol for something, it isn't going to get anything done. Nobody cares. You've got to have enough people to make a difference. And Judge Andrew Napolitano points to part of the problem.

[00:08:50] Very wisely so, Lowell. Yeah, his column's entitled Holes in the Constitution. Now, when I saw that column, I immediately was drawn to it because I wanted to see, well, what holes does he think are in the Constitution? Well, he wasn't talking about the original Constitution. He's talking about the holes that have been punched by modern-day legislation, right? Not holes in the original document. So I just want to make sure we have a clear understanding of that.

[00:09:16] When he talks about holes in the Constitution, he's talking about the holes created by, you know, modern-day legislatures, right? The modern-day Congress, not by the framers that wrote this sacred document. For example, the Patriot Act of 2001 created a hole in the, quote-unquote, wall separating federal law enforcement and federal spies.

[00:09:40] This wall was erected in 1978 and was called the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA. Everybody knows what FISA is, right? That's Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. This law limited all federal domestic spying to that which was authorized by the FISA court.

[00:09:59] Well, this wall was, he writes, quote, the wall was intended to prevent law enforcement from accessing and using data gathered by America's domestic spying agencies, end quote. But wouldn't you know it, Sam? The government spying on Americans has been going on for decades now because the feds, most of them anyway, do not care about the rights of Americans supposedly guaranteed by the Fourth Amendment. So let's review what that guarantee is.

[00:10:29] And let's review what it does. Skip the break and let's review. Okay. So he writes this, quote, domestic spying is a search. And the acquisition of data from a search is a seizure within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment. That amendment requires a warrant issued by a judge based on probable cause of crime presented under oath to the judge for a search or seizure to be lawful.

[00:10:55] The amendment also requires that all search warrants specifically describe the place to be searched and the person or thing to be seized. The language in the Fourth Amendment is the language in the Fourth Amendment is the most precise in the Constitution because of the colonial experiences with British general warrants. A general warrant was issued to British agents by a secret court in London and did not require probable cause, only, quote, unquote, governmental needs.

[00:11:25] That, of course, was no standard whatsoever as whatever the government wants, it will claim that it needs. Continuing this quote by Judge Andrew Napolitano, he says, End of quote.

[00:11:53] Now, that was kind of a long quote from Judge Andrew Napolitano, but I wanted to get that whole quote in because it's very succinct and it's very specific about what the Fourth Amendment protects against. And it also points out that general warrants violate the Fourth Amendment. Okay. General warrants from the 1700s violate the Fourth Amendment. That's why the Fourth Amendment was written.

[00:12:18] And so the Fourth Amendment became part of the Bill of Rights, which I call the List of Prohibitions, and it was designed to protect Americans from abuse by the general government. But it turns out when Congress learned of Nixon's abuse and use and abuse of the FBI and CIA to spy on his political opponents, they enacted FISA. That was 1978, right? Just 40 years ago, 45 years ago.

[00:12:45] But they also lowered the probable cause of crime standard to be just the probable cause of being a foreign agent standard. And, and here's the kicker, Sam, it permitted the FISA court to issue general warrants. So now we have a secret court right here in America issuing general warrants. Exactly what the framers did not want to happen, right?

[00:13:11] They experienced the secret court in London issuing general warrants to the British agents. And now we have our own FISA court in Washington, D.C. issuing their secret court. Their, their activities are not public. And they issue general warrants right in here. They've been doing it for 45 years, Sam. And we think that we're free people. Ha!

[00:13:33] Well, in other words, nearly 50 years ago, Congress punched a hole in the Constitution when they began authorizing general warrants. Precisely. And they did it, by the way, without authority, though, because the Congress doesn't have authority to do that. Well, they don't have authority to do everything they want to do. Yeah. Boy, you got that right. And, in fact, that reminds me of a cartoon. I've talked about this cartoon before on this show, and so our listeners will recognize it.

[00:14:01] But this meme or this image, this cartoon, basically it's an image of the Constitution, you know, the classical one where the Constitution is written on a parchment scroll, right? And above this parchment is a rubber stamp having just left its ink on the Constitution. And what it left on the Constitution was a stamp saying, void where prohibited by law, right?

[00:14:28] I mean, I just can't think of any image that more eloquently and accurately describing what happened and what has been happening to our Constitution for decades. And we're talking about what happened in 1978. And basically the Congress said this document is void where prohibited by law. Now, they don't have any authority to do that.

[00:14:54] In other words, Congress did not amend the Constitution in the way that's authorized in Article 5 of the Constitution. They simply approved pretend legislation, and they got the president and the courts to go along with it. That's what happened, folks. They usurped this authority. And what do we do? We let them do it. The states just sat idly by, twiddling their thumbs, and allowed the Congress to usurp their authority.

[00:15:22] Now, the stated purpose of the 1978 FISA statute, quote, was not to protect foreign agents from domestic criminal prosecutions. It was to prevent American law enforcement from violating personal privacy by spying on Americans without search warrants, end of quote. Well, then along came the Patriot Act, folks. Just weeks after 9-11, with no serious debate, it removed the wall separating law enforcement and spying.

[00:15:51] And you and me, my fellow Americans, you have been and are being spied upon by your own government and have been for decades. Quote, in the last year of the Biden administration, Judge Knapp writes, The FBI admitted that during the first Trump administration, it intentionally used the CIA and the NSA to spy on Americans about whom the FBI was interested,

[00:16:20] but as to whom it had neither probable cause of crime nor even articulable suspicion of criminal behavior, end quote. So I got a question then. Who's going to prison? Nobody. Nobody. Nobody. Not a soul, Sam, is being prosecuted for this violation, this usurpation of our rights. Well, they could, and they spied on Donald Trump this way, too, and got caught at it.

[00:16:44] So the FBI works for the Department of Justice, but the CIA and the NSA work directly for the president. So with a phone call, President Trump could simply stop this stuff immediately. He could put that wall back in place. He could say, we're not doing that. But I don't see him doing it. I see him wanting to raise taxes instead and wanting to get a free plane and everything else. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, as Donald Trump wants to get a free plane from Qatar.

[00:17:13] No, I did not hear that. He's going to turn it into Air Force One and donate to the library to circumvent the laws that you can't do that kind of stuff. Oh, man. I mean, for all the good that Trump does, he certainly makes some big ticket mistakes. And this is one of them, right? I mean, even he has been prosecuted and persecuted by these domestic agencies, the CIA and the NSA, the FBI. And he could stop it if he would. And he could simply say, look, guys, we're not doing this anymore.

[00:17:43] And because they work for him, they have to obey, right? Either that or lose their jobs. But, you know, he's bumping up against probably the biggest dark power in the world, right? The one with the most money, the most authority, the most power. Maybe not authority. They really don't have the authority to have the power but not the authority to do what they're doing, right? And yet he is not taking the necessary steps to shut them down, unfortunately.

[00:18:13] This intelligence community that's above us in government now, they are still way out of control. And, you know, if we had a Congress with backbone, if we had a president with backbone, to shut them down, that would make a big, big difference. But the very first step, as Ron Paul rightly points out, is we need to audit and end the Fed and stop this spending of money that we do not have, Sam.

[00:18:41] And I'm beginning to pray now that this charade will end more quickly than I used to. I mean, I used to think, oh, if we could just last a little bit longer. But the more killing that goes on around the world, Sam, I'm convinced that we just need the dollar to fail so that the government here in the U.S.

[00:19:01] doesn't have the means to operate and keep on killing people around the globe or funding the killing of people like the people in Gaza or funding the killing of the Ukrainians and the Russians over there in Ukraine and Russia and the people in Yemen, right? I mean, if we didn't have the money to spend, we wouldn't be killing so many people. That's kind of what I've begun to conclude, Sam. Well, that's why we've got an audit and end the Fed immediately. And Trump's talked about it a little bit.

[00:19:30] Musk has talked about it a little bit. Rand Paul and Ron Paul are promoting it big time. So am I. So are you. I mean, when are we going to actually do something? I don't even know what Congress has done with the past, what, 11 weeks they've been there. I don't even know what they've accomplished there at all, except for wasting our time and spent us into oblivion, as far as I can see. Well, one thing they've done is they've passed the Megal-Barry Act.

[00:19:55] Now, the Megal-Barry Act is a piece of legislation for Georgia, the country of Georgia. Basically, the House approved this act to pursue in Georgia more Ukraine-style intervention and conflict with Russia. That's the last thing we want. That's another conflict, right?

[00:20:18] Well, on Friday, this column by Adam Dick was posted at RonPaulInstitute.org, bringing us the unhappy news that the U.S. House approved a piece of legislation, which they did on Monday, by the way, last Monday, so a week ago, that gives the Trump administration a green light to meddle in the affairs of the country of Georgia. I'm not talking about Georgia in the United States.

[00:20:44] I'm talking about Georgia, which sits just below Russia on the map, okay? You've got Ukraine that's west of Russia. You've got Georgia to the south of Russia. Both Ukraine and Georgia borders on the Black Sea. And, in fact, there's a piece of Russia that borders on the Black Sea that is between Ukraine and Georgia, okay? So that's where Georgia is. It's a much smaller country than Ukraine.

[00:21:10] But it's almost like, Sam, you know, the U.S. is giving up on Ukraine because we've exhausted, we've killed all of the cannon fodder in Ukraine. And so now let's go to Georgia. Let's see how many of them we can get killed, too, right? I mean, that's kind of what it looks like to me.

[00:21:30] And the Megabari Act, which is House Resolution 36, by the way, it reeks with a repetition of the type of justifications that were paraded in support of the U.S. government's disastrous intervention in Ukraine. Quote, the consolidation of democracy in Georgia is critical for regional stability and United States national interests, end quote. That's what the bill says. Sounds noble, right?

[00:22:00] Sounds beautiful. In fact, let me read just a few more lines from this bill, Sam. And you'll just want to vote for this bill right away because of all of this flowery language nonsense in it. I won't be deceived, ladies and gentlemen. I would vote no, I'm telling you that right now. Oh, but you haven't heard the language yet, Sam. Listen to this. It is the policy of the United States to support the constitutionally stated aspirations of Georgia. To become a member.

[00:22:30] Lies. Straight from the pit of hell, lies. It is not the policy. The policy is the United States of America, the supreme law of the land, which basically repudiates that claim and says, no, you don't have authority. If you want to declare war, go ahead. If you want to do market reprisal, go ahead. But the purse strings relate to the House of Representatives, and it must go through the proper channels. None of that has been done here, lol. Yeah. So they're lying, right? Whoever wrote this thing is lying through his teeth, right?

[00:22:56] And they're saying that Georgia aspires to become a member of NATO, right? To become part of the European Union. We don't even agree with NATO. We don't want to have that foreign entanglement. Shut it down. Defund it yesterday. Exactly. In fact, if Russia didn't want Ukraine to be part of NATO, they certainly are not going to want Georgia to be part of NATO either, because they both border Russia. That's just so stupid that the U.S.

[00:23:23] Whoever wrote this Megabari Act and whoever voted for this act. So crazy, right? Well, sadly, all of our congressmen in the state of Utah backed it, didn't they? Well, four of them, Sam. But we got a few courageous representatives like Thomas Massey and Marjorie Taylor Greene and Gosar and Chip Roy from Texas. You know, I mean, there are 42 people who voted against this albatross, but not a single one of the four from Utah did, Sam.

[00:23:53] So disappointing. Just disappointing. And when you say the 42, most of them were Democrats, right? Well, about half of them were Democrats, yeah. Yep. And sadly, we agree with them. We should vote against them. Folks, this is clown show stuff. Should have never happened, folks. Okay? We need to reject this stuff. But of course, when you crank up a trillion dollars for the military, what do you expect? They've got to find ways to spend it. The military industrial complex in bed with Congress has got to stop.

[00:24:24] We can pray for solutions, folks, and we can stand up for what's right. That's who we are. That's what we do on this radio program. Look, we're not interested in picking sides or picking winners or losers. We're interested in backing the supreme law of the land and the proper role of limited constitutional government. In essence, we hold the moral high ground. Hang tight while Nelson continues in seconds. Campaignforliberty.org on your radio.

[00:24:46] How would you like to help this program reach more people and earn silver at the same time? Call or text 801-669-2211 for complete details. News this hour from townhall.com. I'm Greg Clugston in Washington. The last living American hostage held in Gaza is Eden Alexander. He is set to be released by Hamas later today.

[00:25:14] The announcement follows direct talks between Hamas and the U.S. administration in recent days in Qatar and comes ahead of a visit by President Trump to the region, which starts on Tuesday. Hamas said it was ready to negotiate a final deal for the end of the war in Gaza, a condition that has been repeatedly rejected by the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. That report from the BBC. U.S. and Chinese officials say they have reached a deal to roll back most of their recent tariffs

[00:25:43] and call a 90-day pause. The Trump administration says it has agreed to drop its 145% tariff rate on Chinese goods down to 30%. Wall Street, the Dow is up more than 1,000 points at this hour. The Nasdaq ahead by nearly 3.5%. Ukraine accuses Russia of an overnight drone attack, while Ukrainian President Zelenskyy is hoping for peace talks with Russia's Vladimir Putin later this week.

[00:26:12] There has been no response from the Kremlin on the overnight drone blitz. Meanwhile, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said in a Sunday night video address he hopes for a ceasefire with Russia and challenges Vladimir Putin to meet him for face-to-face talks in Turkey this week. He says, I'll be in Turkey this Thursday, May 15, and I expect Putin to come to Turkey as well, personally. And I hope that this time Putin won't be looking for excuses as to why he can't make it.

[00:26:41] I'm Charles Dela Desma. President Trump could soon receive a luxury jumbo jet as a gift from Qatar. ABC News reports that Donald Trump wants to use the aircraft as Air Force One while in office before transferring ownership to his private presidential library. More at townhall.com. Mike Gallagher here, host of the Mike Gallagher Show. If you know me, you know I only put my name behind people and companies I trust. When it comes to mortgages, I trust Mike and Brian at Fellowship Home Loans. They're not just friends.

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[00:28:31] By having more children, you're making your nation more populous, thus boosting its capacity to solve climate change. The planet does not need for us to think globally and act locally so much as it needs us to think family and act personally. The solution to so many of our problems, at all times and in all places, is to fall in love, get married, and have some kids.

[00:28:59] As you are aware, America is divided over every fault line possible. This is intentionally fostered by those who do not love God, family, or country. We believe a peaceful future as a free people absolutely depends on civility. Clarion Call for Civility is looking for funding and volunteers at every level to make our hopes and efforts a reality. Please donate, sign our pledge, and help us in our sacred cause. Please visit CallForCivility.com for more details. CallForCivility.com

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[00:30:13] Casting live from atop the Rocky Mountains, the crossroads of the West. You are listening to the Liberty Roundtable Radio Talk Show. Well, happy to be with you, ladies and gentlemen. Good morning. My name is Lowell Nelson. I'm riding shotgun this morning. Sam Bushman is your host. And we've been talking, we have been connecting some dots this morning.

[00:30:37] We have this Megabari Act, House Resolution 36, that passed the U.S. House last Monday. And we observed that Ron Paul has a solution for this nonsense. If we had simply audit and end the Fed, then we wouldn't be spending our money so fruitlessly on disaster in Georgia, than the country of Georgia, just like we spent the last 10 years spending on the disaster in Ukraine.

[00:31:04] We've been feeding cannon fodder Ukrainians to the war machine, killing hundreds of thousands of people there and in Russia. And we've been supporting the decimation of Gaza. We've been supporting the bombing of Yemen. And, well, we wouldn't be spending this money. And, by the way, all this supporting of those things really turns us into war criminals, Lowell. I hate to be so blunt. And I'm not saying the average American is a war criminal because I don't know how much control we individually have.

[00:31:31] But as a nation, that's really where we're going, to fund this military industrial complex, to insert ourselves into the foreign affairs of other nations, to breach other nations' sovereignties, to agitate and pick sides. And, you know, it borders on war criminal behavior. I mean, what are we bombing all those people in all these countries for right now? Even Trump's doing it. Now, he might be doing less than Biden did. I get it. But at the same time, where does he get the authority to, what is it, the people in Yemen? Is that where it is? Yeah. What's happening with that? Where's the authority?

[00:32:01] Where's congressional approval? Where's, okay, there are war criminals when they do this kind of stuff. Yeah, I mean, there are legal reasons, like constitutional reasons. They don't have the authority to do it. But there's also the moral reasons, Sam. And we don't mention it often enough, probably. But those people over there in Yemen and in Gaza, they are our brothers and sisters, right? Brothers from another mother, right? I mean, you have to go way back, but we're related to them. And, I mean, they're human beings.

[00:32:30] And we shouldn't think that they are simply disposable or expendable, right? I mean, the average American doesn't give a second thought about the damage that we're doing over there. But these are real people with real families, with real lives, with real hopes and dreams and aspirations, right? They want to become something. They want to contribute something of value. These are people like you and me, common folk, who wish for peace. They wish for prosperity. They wish for the freedom to do what they would like to do.

[00:33:00] And yet, they get bombed. They get hurt. They get damaged, maimed, crippled. And we're the cause of it. We, meaning the United States regime, are not the only cause, the only cause. We got Netanyahu, the Nutanyahu that's, you know, bombing Gaza and trying to kill them off the face of the earth. And there's a lot of powers out there that want to kill people.

[00:33:30] And that's just evil. We shouldn't be doing it. America should be a light on a hill. We should set the example. Do what George Washington urged us to do in the very beginning of our republic, which is to be friends with all countries but alliances with none, right? We shouldn't be being jerked around by Netanyahu to do what he wants us to do. And I don't know. We just need to get out of this war business, Sam, and quit killing people around the world. That's my feeling.

[00:34:00] Amen. The sooner the better. But, again, it's only going to happen when we, the people, insist on it, Lowell. And it just isn't going to happen otherwise. Look, people need to understand there's separation of powers in America. And that's why the president can't just do what he wants to and have Congress sit on the sidelines. That's why, you know, when the courts are out of control, the Congress and the president should reign in the courts. Okay? Each branch of government is supposed to provide a check and balance to the other on the general level. But those three branches of government go all the way to your local level.

[00:34:30] Judicial, executive, legislative, all intended to check and balance one another and to protect us from the abuses of one branch or, you know, individual. Right? Right. Then the, not only is there a three-branch separation of powers up and down the line, but there's a vertical separation between the states and the feds, too. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely, Sam.

[00:34:59] And that is the most important check and balance that exists. It's the one that Leif talked about. Obviously, the government schools don't want you to know about that particular check because they, you know, the general government thrives when people don't know about it. Right? People mourn when the wicked are in power and the wicked are in power. They don't want people to know that they have the power to stop the wickedness

[00:35:27] that's occurring at the general level of government. But this horizontal check is so important. And it's all based on the understanding that the states that formed the, that actually ratified the Constitution, they are the sovereigns, the true sovereigns in this republic. And the evidence of that is written in the Declaration of Independence.

[00:35:56] It's written in the Treaty of Paris. There's a great article here by Tom Evans found at lewrockwell.com. Most people believe, most Americans believe we are one nation. Right? How many times have you heard that phrase? Well, if you went to government schools here in America, then you heard it every single morning when you said the Pledge of Allegiance. Right? This is one of the great falsehoods that's promoted in the Pledge of Allegiance, that we are one nation. Right?

[00:36:26] The Pledge of Allegiance was composed by a Fabian socialist named Francis Bellamy, originally published in 1892. Right? Now, some people will tell you we became a nation in 1776 when we declared our independence from England. But what is the truth here? Well, the truth is that every state is and always has been a separate sovereign nation. We read this in the Declaration of Independence. Quote, We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America,

[00:36:55] declare that these united colonies are and of right ought to be free and independent states, and that as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and do all other acts and things which independent states may have right do. End of quote. Right? That's right out of the Declaration of Independence. Now, in the 1783 Treaty of Paris, Quote,

[00:37:24] His Britannic Majesty acknowledges the said United States, namely, New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island, and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia to be free, sovereign, and independent states. End of quote. And by the way, the Treaty of Paris was with each individual state.

[00:37:53] It was not with the United States as a single nation. Well, things began to change in 1832 when those in government began to rewrite history. Andrew Jackson claimed that the individual 13 states had always formed a national union from 1776 on. Quote, We declared ourselves a nation. They agreed that they would collectively form one nation. And that disunion by armed force is treason. End of quote. That's what Andrew Jackson said.

[00:38:22] And that's why I 100% disagree. If we have the right to create something and join something, we have the right to disassolve or, you know, abolish or change the affair. I mean, go read your Declaration of Independence, people. I don't fall for this lie. It's not treason if the government's out of control and I want to back away from that out of control government. That's not treason on my part. That's me holding the moral high ground and saying, look, they've disobeyed the charter. Therefore, there needs to be accountability for that disobedience to the charter,

[00:38:51] to the contract with we, the people. So there's only one part of Adam Dick that I kind of disagree with slightly. Lowell. Yeah. Just to kind of lay it out. It says this, each state remains a sovereign nation by law and thus remains under the proper supreme authority of its people. And I would add under their God. But then it says, but meanwhile,

[00:39:15] the United States government is simply a hostile occupier thereof without any authority or sovereignty. Sovereignty by law. I think the general government has some sovereignty. The Richard Mack Prince or Prince Mack versus United States case highlights this. There's dual sovereigns. And let me explain what I mean by that. There's sovereignty in the general government when it's obedient to, it's laid out contractual responsibilities at the general government level. It's very narrow and defined,

[00:39:45] but it exists. And so there does relate to some sovereignty there. We've delegated authority to them to do certain things. I'll just give an example. Money. Hey, there's a coordinated effort so that, you know, you don't have different money in every different state, right? Or different, you know, okay. So there's some things like that, that we have delegated some sovereignty to the general government. It's very limited and defined. They're using it to lord over the states wrongfully. So, but there is a modicum of sovereignty at the general government level defined by

[00:40:14] the contract in the Supreme law of the land. It's narrow and defined. You can read the list of what we delegated to them. And anytime they're acting outside that he's right. When they're acting within the scope of that delegation, there is some sovereignty there that relates. Yes. And I would agree with that a hundred percent, Sam. This dual sovereignty idea doesn't mean that both are sovereign over the same thing, but it means that the general government is sovereign when it acts in pursuance of the constitution.

[00:40:44] And there are some things that states are forbidden to do, such as coining money, right? And I mean, such as, as, as, as not taking anything, but gold and silver coin in payment of debt. Right. And so that's, that's, and so the states are constrained, the general government is constrained. And so where the states have sovereignty is like police power. They're sovereigns in, in that area, but the general government doesn't have any sovereignty in that area,

[00:41:12] except for counterfeiting piracy on the high seas and treason, right? Those three things, the general government has sovereignty for, because that's outlined in the contract, right? The compact, meaning the U S constitution, which the ratifiers ratified. So yeah, I, I, I think that at least that's my understanding when, of when Scalia talked about dual sovereignty, I think that's what he meant. Would you agree with that, Yes. Another way to simplify the discussion is this. States relate to their own internal affairs. Uh,

[00:41:41] and when the States then deal with the world on an international level, then Hey, they have delegated authority to the general government relating to foreign affairs to a great degree borders, for example. Hey, because they run across state lines and everything else. If you have just say California and Arizona and Texas and Louisiana or whatever, um, you know, they can all have such different rules that it's almost impossible. So that's why the general government has relation to the borders and external affairs to make sure we have a united front.

[00:42:08] There is some delegation there that has appropriate authority. The problem is the general government walks all over that. You give them an inch and they take a mile. And now they've basically turned every law enforcement issue almost into a federal issue or every crime has now become a federal crime. And so the problem is people haven't put, you know, put the fix to the general government and say, you can't do that. Richard Mack didn't one. If enough people would stand up on those principles, we wouldn't have a problem. But again, the checks and balances only work when we, the people understand our responsibility.

[00:42:38] We need a generation of public servants in our States who understand the sovereignty, who understand that they need to curtail the size and scope and authority of the general government. And they'll take whatever they can get low unless we demand they stop. They'll continue. You're absolutely right, Sam. And just one other point I want to take from Adam Dick's article. Obama said that, you know, in fact, this is pretty common. A lot of people will pair what Obama said,

[00:43:04] but Obama said more than 600,000 Americans died in a long and bloody civil war that vindicated the principle that the constitution establishes a permanent union between the states. End of quote. Right. Right. And so I just want to point this out that, that he's saying that violence settled the question, but that is no way to settle a question. Right. Just because you're the biggest bully on the block and that you get your way, you can beat up all the wimps. Right. Doesn't mean that it's right,

[00:43:33] that your position is right. Just because the North beat up the South, you know, one cannot say that the South had no right to withdraw from the union. Right. That's crazy talk. There has been no valid legal argument of national union over any state. Right. If you have the right to join, you have the right to leave or you didn't have the right to join in the first place. Right. Exactly. Exactly. And so don't anybody fall for this argument that the question was settled by the civil war.

[00:44:02] It ain't the hotel of California people. That's right. You can check anytime you like, but you can never leave. See, that isn't the way it works. Go read your declaration of independence. If you want clarity and the constitution doesn't critic or, um, the constitution doesn't prohibit that either. Some say that it does, but that's a lie. Go look at your, what article five. I mean, if we have a right to call a convention, we certainly have a right to abolish. Isn't that how they abolished the articles of confederation in the first place?

[00:44:31] Now I'm not saying we should, we should go down an article five convention just because that opportunity or that option is in the constitution. It doesn't mean it's the rightful remedy at this time. So people always say to me, well, Sam, it's constitutional. Then why aren't you for it? Just because something's constitutional, it doesn't mean I think it's the best action. Right. That's for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And so, um, the, um, so I want to get back to what you said earlier, Sam, that, you know, this idea that, um,

[00:44:59] to curtail the size and reach of the general government, Lou Rockwell has a great, uh, column on this very topic. And he explains how this is done, um, uh, in, in a post to his website last week, lourockwell.com talks about nullification, right? States have the power to nullify unconstitutional laws. So they do not apply within that state. He says, quote, if the Alabama legislature, for example, nullified foreign aid,

[00:45:28] the people of Alabama couldn't be taxed for that purpose. End quote. Well, right. That's a nice idea. But where does Lou get that notion? Well, he cites the Kentucky resolution. In fact, if you read his column, Sam, which I'm sure you have, it almost, the whole thing is a quote of the Kentucky resolution of 1799 written by Thomas Jefferson. And I'm just going to highlight four important points from this resolution. Uh, quote,

[00:45:55] resolved that if those who administer the general government be permitted to transgress the limits fixed by that compact by a total disregard to the special delegations of power therein contained, then annihilation of the state governments and the erection upon their ruins of a general consolidated government will be the inevitable consequence. End of quote. In other words, the point is the general government is so belligerent and so abusive in the nature of governments.

[00:46:24] The nature of the world is to go from order to disorder, uh, from, you know, anarchy to tyranny. Uh, and it takes a special balance for people to understand a constitutional republic. It's basically, we, the people are sovereigns under God almighty, greater authority than government. And we demand accountability based on the contracts that we have, you know, inked between these entities. We've given a lot of responsibility to the states, some responsibility to the general government,

[00:46:52] some responsibilities to the local counties and municipalities. And unless we insist on those, the nature of things is for that to be overturned by zealous or zealots and tyrannical thugs that are overzealous. Okay. We need nullification to stop this. And this is where I would say there's a lot of solutions to this. Yeah. Absolutely. Some would say seceding from the union is the only way, Sam, that's the only way to go forward. I don't agree. Some say we got to have an article five, article five convention. It's the only way I reject both those.

[00:47:20] I think we ought to try nullification and try defunding these clowns and try not electing these people. I mean, all 435 members of Congress could go in 26 if we demanded it. If enough of us stood up to the plate and said, you're gone, you clowns had an opportunity under Trump to really reduce funding and you did no such thing. You're out on your ear. Okay. But we've got to take back responsibilities. And what sadly Americans want, Lowell, is they want a TV show fix. They want to solve it in 45 minutes or they want somebody else to fix their problems.

[00:47:50] Or they want to somehow, man, I can't get my hands dirty. I can't wrestle with the hogs. But yet, okay, we always want a situation where somebody else solves the problem for us or a shortcut. We want to medicate, you know, hey, pop a pill. It fixes all your health problems. Watch a TV show and it solves all the other problems. It doesn't work that way, folks. You cannot get shortcuts to your liberty. It will not work, has never worked. Yeah. The next from the, well said, Sam, couldn't say any better. Next point from the Kentucky resolution, quote,

[00:48:20] resolved that the principle contended for by several of the state legislatures, that the general government is the exclusive judge of the extent of the powers delegated to it, stops nothing short of despotism, since the discretion of those who administer the government and not the constitution would be the measure of their powers. End quote.

[00:49:03] End quote.

[00:49:33] End quote. The states make that determination. That's, that's, it turns out that government lawyers with lifetime tenure, right, the justices sitting on that Supreme Court, they have usurped powers not given to them by the constitution, as they pretend that somehow they have this monopoly on constitutional interpretation, right, because that's what they heard in government schools. It's taught everywhere in our government schools, folks. These propaganda camps that you are, we send our children to,

[00:50:03] they always say, well, the U S Supreme court, they get the last word on everything. That is wrong. Flat out wrong. That idea has, was strongly opposed for generations of Americans in every state in the early years of our Republic. And if that were truly correct, we'd never have been able to leave King George in the first place. Folks, think about it logically. Mm-hmm. So again, from the resolution, the next important point here resolved that a nullification,

[00:50:32] here we get to the, the, the essence of this column. Now, a nullification by those sovereignty, speaking of the States of all unauthorized acts done under color of that instrument is the rightful remedy. End of quote. So there we have it folks. The, the gem of this resolution nullification is the rightful remedy. To, to the problems that we have that the general government, you know, the size and reach of the general government,

[00:51:00] the rightful remedy is nullification, right? It's not in succession. It's not vote the bums out. It's not, you know, it, it is nullification. It's the doctrine of the lesser magistrates. Well, Jefferson went on in the resolution to say this, quote, that although this commonwealth as a party to the federal compact, he's speaking of the commonwealth of Kentucky. That's, that's what it was named back then. This,

[00:51:27] although the commonwealth will bow to the laws of the union, yet it does at the same time declare that it will not now nor ever hereafter cease to oppose in a constitutional manner, every attempt to violate that compact. End of quote. So what did he mean in a, in a constitutional manner to oppose in a constitutional manner? He's talking about nullification. So is nullification, the rightful remedy, the constitutional manner?

[00:51:56] Yes. It's exactly what he's talking about. That is the constitutional check and balance on the general government. When it usurps power, when it arrogates power under itself, that it doesn't, that was not granted, the states are to, are to, to put an end to it, right? They are to nullify the unconstitutional acts of the general government. So put another way, Kentucky's going to bow to laws made in pursuance of the constitution. Sure.

[00:52:25] But it will oppose laws that violate that constitution. Well, now here's one more point here, Sam. Lou Rockwell recommends a book by James Jackson, Kill Patrick entitled The Sovereign States. It was published in the 1950s. I haven't read the book myself, but it looks very interesting. Southern historian Van Woodward acknowledges this, this book and says, Kilpatrick has a strong case. Quote, Mr.

[00:52:50] Kilpatrick has no difficulty in mustering great numbers of instances in which states have imposed a check or a veto upon federal encroachments. These interpositions range from mild remonstrance to stern nullification. It is also a simple matter for him to demonstrate that states' rights is not a doctrine peculiar to the South, which is what you're taught in government schools, by the way,

[00:53:13] and to show that every region and just about every state in the union has at one time or another challenged or vetoed federal authority. End of quote. And justly so, I might add. Now, I did change one little tidbit in this line where it says nullification, the rightful remedy. I changed the to our, Lowell. So nullification, our rightful remedy. And the reason that I did is because when you say the rightful remedy, it kind of makes it sound like we don't really have control over it.

[00:53:42] When we say our rightful remedy, it shows who has really, who has the control, who has the sovereignty, who has the decision-making authority. And that's we, the people in the states who we delegated this authority to. Mm-hmm. And states are partnering with the general government in so many of their insidious programs. If the states would simply refuse to cooperate, then the feds wouldn't have a program to administer. It's up to us, folks. It's up to you and me and our public servants. Sam?

[00:54:13] It ain't a spectator sport, people. You got to get involved and hold the moral high ground. And we, the people, if there's enough of us, can absolutely rein in these out-of-control people. And we can delegate to the general government what's properly delegated by the founders. And to the states, the same. And we, the people, need to retain our true sovereignty under God Almighty. And the more of a self-governed people we are, the more that reality will become our daily lives. You got to work on it, folks. It's all about God, family, and country. For Lowell Nelson,

[00:54:42] Campaign for Liberty.org, thank you so much, sir. God save our republic. Have a look.