Radio Show Hour 2 – 01/28/2025

[00:00:13] Broadcasting live from atop the Rocky Mountains, the crossroads of the West. You are listening to the Liberty Roundtable Radio Talk Show. All right. Happy to have you along, my fellow Americans. Sam Bushman, Sheriff Richard Mack on your radio. Hard-hitting news that never refused to use. No doubt continues now. This is Hour 2 of 2. This is the broadcast for January the 28th in the year of our Lord, 2025. Promoting God, family, country. Protecting life, liberty, and property.

[00:00:42] Rejecting Revolution and the Lessons of Jesus Revolution. We stand with the Prince of Peace. Sheriff Mack with me. CSPOA.org. Become a member of the Posse today. Sheriff Mack is founder and president of the Constitutional Sheriffs of Peace Officers Association. CSPOA.org. Sheriff, there's so much to cover so little time, it seems. There's political prisoners everywhere.

[00:01:08] And I'm really grateful that President Trump pardoned and committed the sentences of many of the J6 prisoners. He's done so with a lot of the pro-life prisoners as well. And that's phenomenal. We commend President Trump. We thank President Trump. No doubt about it. However, there are countless political prisoners still suffering abuse at the hands of the government.

[00:01:36] We've got a prison mentality that just won't quit. More people are in prison in America than virtually any other country in the world. We love prisons for some reason. They've become a cash cow for groups. They've become the ability to cause trouble for anybody who stands up for liberty. In other words, the IRS has been used as a Gestapo armed judge, jury, and executioner. There's political prisoners everywhere. Some of them aren't even in jail at this point.

[00:02:02] But they still suffer at the hands of a government that doesn't have honorable justice because the Justice Department has been weaponized. Do you want to start there, Sheriff Mack, before you introduce our guest? Yes, it has, Sam. And, you know, back in 1998, my office was raided by the FBI and IRS while I was running for Utah County Sheriff.

[00:02:30] It seemed like that ended my police career. You know, it's on the front page of the newspaper. Front page, biggest headline you could ever see.

[00:02:52] It's on the front page, but it's on the front page.

[00:03:15] And the frame you could have been updated on the front page, but the president had been aniamente-like reaction. And that creates the evidence that they studied, which was actually an announcement that the FBI, but the FBI, the FBI, the FBI, the FBI, the FBI, the FBI, were involved in it. up by videos showed by Tucker Carlson

[00:03:43] about a year and a half ago. And I was shocked by Mr. Republican Honorable Mitt Romney who said, we don't need to see any more videos. We already have the truth. So he wasn't even willing to look at the other side or more videos of what he had already made up his mind on. And so yeah, people good grief.

[00:04:12] Anyway, we already know about corruption and we have another guest that's going to talk to us about corruption in Utah. He's been on before. He's your friend and mine. He's a stalwart for the Constitution. He's a stalwart for freedom and he's a stalwart for Utah. Phil Lyman, welcome back to Liberty Rock. Thank you. Thank you, Sheriff. It's good to be on. Hi, Sam. Now, look, thank you so much. Thank you so much for joining us.

[00:04:41] So the summary of the story is Phil has been a Utah legislator for quite some time. He's a great honorable constitutional leader. He ran for governor. He won his caucus. Enough so to where there shouldn't have been a primary. Nevertheless, they had a primary anyway because they've used these kind of rules that circumvent the caucus systems now where if you have plenty of money, you can circumvent that. Anyway, bottom line is Phil was basically

[00:05:12] lost the primary. Well, Spencer Cox, the current governor, was in the primary, although he shouldn't have been because they shouldn't have held a primary. Nevertheless, then Cox won the primary and went to the general election. But it turns out that he never got enough signatures to be on the primary in the first place. So Phil went to the Utah Supreme Court. They rejected it. Now he's going to the U.S. Supreme Court. And as far as I understand, they're rejecting it as well. That's kind of the summary

[00:05:41] start of the story. Phil, why don't you just jump in wherever you think makes sense and kind of update us on that, will you? Well, yeah, I mean, I appreciate your last guest and that whole everything that's going on. And, you know, the only thing when we're dealing with the government, the only thing we know for sure is that we're being lied to. And people feel that across America we're being taken advantage of by these, you know, scoundrels and cowards and idiots, robbed, blind, locked up, spied on, ravaged, held at gunpoint. You know, they want us to surrender our

[00:06:10] freedoms and our children's freedoms to a bunch of extortionists and money launderers and, you know, basically professional pirates. And I, that's what, that's what got me into, I ran for county commissioner 17 years ago, I guess now. And it was, it wasn't because I wanted to get into politics or to be a county commissioner. It's because I saw the collusion taking place between the Bureau of Land Management, these big environmentalists, and they were shutting down all the access. I live in a county that's only 8% private property.

[00:06:39] The rest is controlled by the government, and they were shutting down every bit of access to the land and locking up the resources and the minerals. And these are real people with real jobs and real families who are being affected by it, and I wanted to know why. I really wanted to understand why is this happening? And the more I got into it, the more frustrated I got, which got me prosecuted for a misdemeanor conspiracy to trespass was the charge. No one's ever heard of it before or since.

[00:07:07] But I found that if you get charged by the U.S. attorneys with conspiracy to do anything, all that means is you're going to jail because they can prove conspiracy to run a stop sign. You know, I mean, it's just ridiculous. But I've learned so much through the process. It took me to the state legislature. You know, and Sheriff, you mentioned, you know, being raided by the FBI. I was raided by the Utah Attorney General's Office long before I got into any of this

[00:07:35] other trouble. I was the county commissioner at the time, but they were just trying to send a message of, you know, stop asking questions, stop looking at these things. And it kind of set that pattern of, okay, well, you either fold, you either step back into your, you know, safe place and comply with everything or you continue to ask questions. And if you continue to ask questions, you're going to end up getting, you know, either smack down or getting really emboldened, you know, the truth will set you free.

[00:08:05] And sometimes it's because they take away, you know, everything else you've got and all you have left is the truth to stand on. And that's not, it's not altogether bad. Sheriff Mack? Well, that's, that's regrettably true. And as a matter of fact, you'll get smacked down if you demand freedom or if you demand transparency from any government. It is all so corrupt.

[00:08:35] Utah government is so corrupt. Federal government is so corrupt. And then there's others that just like to play the game. And so counties go along and sheriffs go along and it just becomes one continual round because they all want to be part of the money and the power. And they're just not going to do anything to stand in the way of that. And if I sound a little bit discouraged,

[00:09:04] it is because I am tired of it. And I'm not going to, I'm not going to take it lying down either, which you didn't feel. So why don't you give us the latest? Sam said the United States Supreme Court isn't going along to help you either. Is that completely true or do you still have a chance there? I mean, there's, there's always a chance with the Supreme Court and going into it, it's, it's slim. And they had 500 cases on the docket that they, that they considered.

[00:09:33] And I, and the clerks, I felt like they gave us a really fair shot, you know, through the clerks and everything. But then when, then they meet on their, whatever it was Monday morning and, and they have 500 cases and they, and they select seven that are going forward. And with the election and Trump coming in, I'm sure there are, there are things that are much more pressing than, you know, Utah's GOP question. And the question that we asked is one that they've answered before. And it's, do people have the right of political, of, of, of association, especially political

[00:10:03] parties? Can a party choose its candidate in the way that it, that it deems proper? And they answered that in the New York board of education versus Lopez Torres. And basically said, yeah, absolutely. The political party can have a dance contest if they want to do that to choose their candidate. The legislature doesn't have a right to interfere. Of course, the legislature in Utah has interfered and said, yeah, if you, if you want to circumvent this, you can go the signature route.

[00:10:31] And then as you pointed out, Sam, it's ironic that the governor, you know, came and bummed his nose at the delegates. And then we found out he didn't have his signatures. And then the other thing that we found out just this week, talking to a few people on the inside, now that there's been a change in administration, a few people are saying he knew for six months that he didn't have his signatures. You know, that the, the story is, oh, well, we, we were acting in good faith. We, we were told we had them. I mean, they're told by themselves that they had them. It's kind of ironic, but because they're over the

[00:11:00] signature gathering process to the lieutenant governor. And I mean, it just, it just, it just gets worse and worse, but they've, they've known, they knew long before the convention that they didn't get their signatures and they just, you know, the law doesn't apply to them. So, but that's where we're at. And so the Supreme court case said they're going to, they declined to hear it. We can ask for a reconsideration of that. And we probably will probably bring it back to the Utah

[00:11:28] Supreme court with, with another request. Now that there's more things have come to light. We do have a lawsuit going. Well, that's what I was going to say. If you've got more evidence, does that change the situation legally to go back to Utah Supreme court? I mean, it should, you know, we're, we're going, we're, we're going to the mechanism that's, that's given to us to redress these grievances and the people that we're concerned about are the mechanism.

[00:11:56] So, so you, so you, you know, you don't expect a snake to cut off its own head and, and, and yeah, you still, you still hope maybe if, if we lay this out clear enough and these audits that have been done, there's, there's two audits that have been done on the signatures on governor Cox's signatures. And we've got a lawsuit going and I promise you these laws, these audits would not have happened, but for our lawsuit. Um, and of course the court keeps, you know, rejecting.

[00:12:26] So we keep appealing on up and it'll probably end up at the Utah Supreme court too. Um, but two audits that said, yeah, we looked at the signatures and, and Spencer Cox, uh, didn't have a 28,000 valid signatures. Uh, the first one says, but he could have, and he would have, if he'd have known. And, uh, but the third one that's going on now, Whenever I need enough signatures, that never flies though. They didn't say you could have, should have, maybe could have known.

[00:12:55] If the tables were turned, you, you can bet I would be, you know, I'd be out, but, um, I don't know. It's, it's an interesting thing. And this is, I guess not, not to shift, but I'm curious and I'm, I'm so optimistic with this new administration and with president Trump and I'm thrilled, but I am so curious why he elevates some of the people that have been hateful towards him for the last four years.

[00:13:22] And then after he, you know, secures the election, all of these fake Republicans, you know, come over and endorse him and, and, and I mean, I'm talking about Spencer Cox mainly, but it's across the nation. He is, he's elevated a bunch of these fake Republicans and I, and I'm, I'm confused by it. I'm, I'm perplexed and trying to figure out why, what is the strategy here? And I'm sure there is one. And if I understood it might make me feel better.

[00:13:55] It's hard to know where to go from here because at some point there's no justice sheriff. Yeah, this is pretty tough. I mean, to be able to stay in as governor because you meant well to comply with all the requirements to get on the ballot. Well, I, you know, I meant to, or, or our staff said they did it. Oh, well, we didn't quite get enough. So, but it's still okay because we meant well, we meant to do it.

[00:14:25] And that kind of nonsense, you have to comply with the law and you have to comply with the rules. But I've said this all along, the Democrat party and the Republican party are simply private clubs. They're, they're, they're like social clubs and, and they have their rules set forth. But is that legally binding?

[00:14:51] Well, in fact, it gives, it gives the parties a special permission at the seat of government beyond everyone else, which is in my mind criminal at the start. Right. And yet, and yet the Republican and Democrat party run our governments. They run our governments. So they should be held to the high standard, but yeah, gosh. So where do you go from here then? What, what's the, what's the best route?

[00:15:18] And, and are, is, is the Spencer Cox administration mad at you, getting sick and tired of you, or are they just ignoring? Oh yeah. Um, I mean, they tried to ignore me, but the problem, and here's the interesting thing, you know, so I had to run as a write-in and the Cox administration, at least people in the Cox campaign, um, paid or offered to pay two other linemen to run on the very last day. So, so it confused. I'd done all this advertising, you know, lineman for governor, lineman for governor.

[00:15:46] So they go and get a couple of linemen to put their name on the ballot as write-ins. Um, so, so, sorry, I got, I got off track there a little bit, but did you even know them or were, are you related? No, no, no. I mean, I'm sure we're related. Most, most linemen in Utah, you know, go back to, um, the same, uh, pioneer ancestry, but, um, but, but, uh, I guess, where do you go from here?

[00:16:12] I'm looking at the, uh, I'm looking at the GOP because the GOP, and I agree with you. I think it is kind of a social club and they can do pretty much what they want if they, if they want to, you know, just put somebody's name up as a Republican. I guess they can do that. There's not a lot of legal recourse, but there's a lot of people looking at the GOP now saying, do I stay or do I go? Do I jump ship and join the constitution party or the libertarians?

[00:16:37] And in Utah, I think they're, they're hoping to see a reform with the GOP. So, I mean, we're, we're considering getting involved. I hate the idea of, of, you know, jumping in the middle of, of the party politics, but at the same time, I think that's the next logical place to start looking is trying to influence the GOP and saying,

[00:17:01] if you're not going to stand up for the GOP's bylaws, then, then why do we have bylaws and why do we have a GOP? So maybe one last effort to reform the party or revive. I always say we need a revival, just like the old spiritual revival, where you remember who it is that you are and what, what it was that you once stood for. And, and I think Utah could, I think Utah could do it. But then I look at the national scene and I mean, other states, Wisconsin and Georgia,

[00:17:28] Georgia and they're fighting, they're not fighting the Democrats. They're fighting the GOP in these places that the Republicans are fighting the fake Republicans. And Utah is, is totally doing that. And it's, it's disheartening to, to a bunch of Republicans. And the problem is the good ones, the good ones throw up their hands and, and leave the party. When, what, what you would hope is that you could change the party.

[00:17:54] I don't know which is a viable, which one is the viable option, but that's where I'm at right now is looking at the, at the GOP. And it's not like I'm, like, I'm angry with like the state chair. He's a friend of mine, but I am angry and he is being, and I am suing him, but only because they didn't stand up when they needed to.

[00:18:15] And if there is a court decision, it will be that the GOP go back and, and do the job that they were supposed to do in the first place, which is put their candidate on the, on the ballot and ensure that anybody that's on the ballot is actually qualified to be there. They didn't do that. Well, that was my, that was my next question. You can sue the Republican party for not following their own rules or not checking and make sure that everything is done according to their bylaws.

[00:18:43] They can be held accountable for that in, maybe not in a state court of law, but they, they can certainly be held accountable for it in a lawsuit that you filed against them. Yeah. And yeah, that still is a state court. But so are, so you're suing the Republican party of Utah.

[00:19:03] They're listed as one of the defendants, the governor, the lieutenant governor, the GOP are all three defendants on the, on the case that we took to the Utah Supreme Court and the, and the U S Supreme Court. Which, which is filing a private law, a private lawsuit against them. That is, that is in the works, I guess. And again, it's not, it's not mean spirited. It's, it's, are we going to follow our bylaws or not? Here's the, you know, I had to sign.

[00:19:33] I had to sign a contract in order to, to run as in the Republican party. I had to sign a contract that I would be bound by the bylaws of the Republican party, which says, if you win the convention with over 60%, you go straight to the, to the general election. There is no primary. Well, you know who else signed that? Spencer Cox. And yet he's not held to it. So there's, there's definitely a lawsuit and you spend, you know, we, we, uh, spent over $2 million on our campaign.

[00:20:03] Um, you know, and, and I mean, people in Utah saw what was happening. It turned into a movement and we had good donations and some, some, some, I felt very blessed in that. But I also feel like it's not, it's a luxury that I don't have to be able to throw in the towel. It's like, there's too many people who have, who have put in their heart and soul. And these are, these are small donors. These are, these are people who can't afford the $25 a month, but they're doing it anyway and hoping that somebody will stand up.

[00:20:31] So there's, there's a huge, I don't know, I feel a huge weight of responsibility now to follow through with what we started. And it's not office seeking at all. It's, it's, it's addressing the corruption and it's a big, it's a big, uh, it's a big dragon to try to slay. Seven headed dragon. Well, uh, are you, where, where is any support coming from the state? Are there other representatives?

[00:21:00] You know, you talked to me once about a guy who we thought was a really staunch conservative and he's kind of wishy-washy on you at best. Is there anybody in the state that's saying, you know what, this is wrong. This was bad. We need to, we need to take care of this. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, really the strength is coming from the people, uh, the mass, the mass of people.

[00:21:25] And, um, and I think that the, that the scales are starting to tip and nationally as well, you know, and the whole woke, uh, agenda, the DEI, everything that, everything that Cox had kind of. Um, I think that's represented, you know, he was, he was, he's the, he's the, the housing guru, you know, overseas saw the biggest collapse in housing affordability in the, in the nation here in Utah. Uh, illegal immigration, all of that.

[00:21:51] So, um, people are seeing, um, seeing that, that, uh, I guess waking up, people are waking up to what's happening right in front of their, right in front of their faces. And I think there's a shift. And if that shifts a little bit more, maybe, maybe it will go back to, um, an honest Republican party. It is, it's much more black and white, but the, uh, middle ground is, is kind of evaporating. And, and a lot of people are really sad to see it go because that's where they, that's where they live.

[00:22:21] But for people like you and I, um, I think we're glad to see it happen because you find out who your, who your real friends are. And, and, and to your point, I'm sorry, I'm rambling here a little bit, but the legislature, I understand legislators. And I, I've been one for the last six years and I, and I understand the pressures that are up against them and they're looking now. I point at leadership, you know, house leadership and Senate leadership, and, and they're colluding with the governor. They're, they, they, they meet with the governor.

[00:22:50] They have this, what they call the UEOC, the Unified Economic Opportunity Commission in Utah. And it's the speaker of the house, the president of the Senate, the governor, and a bunch of agency heads that get together, draft legislation all through the interim and then push it through. And if you're in the legislature, you see these things come through and they say, oh, if the governor's in favor, the speaker is in favor, the president's in favor. If I vote against this, all I'm going to do is lose my, my place on my committees or, or, or be marginalized or my bills won't get through.

[00:23:19] So it's a real dirty game and they play it really aggressively in Utah and, and almost unashamedly in Utah. So Utah has become, Utah has become sadly a sanctuary state and we've got to solve that as well in America too. We've got to create accountability for these parties. Somehow the party is above the people. If I don't belong to a specific party, Hey, let's say I belong as an independent American.

[00:23:45] Just say, you know, I don't, I don't really have a chance to be involved in either primary. By the time it comes to the general election and I get to vote, I've missed the caucuses. I've missed the raising money to get on the ballot. I've missed the put your signatures on the deal. I've missed the primaries I've missed. And I've basically been shut out of the elections. That alone is worth a lawsuit to say the least, ladies and gentlemen. But Phil Lyman, our dear friend doing a phenomenal job and bucking the system in a very meaningful, productive way. I have prayers that he succeeds at the Supreme Court.

[00:24:15] I just know from experience, it's very hard to get there even if you justly deserve to be there. It was a flat out miracle that Sheriff Mack went to the Supreme Court and won, for instance, to make the point. Anyway, Phil Lyman with us, ladies and gentlemen. We'll come right back. We've got several more questions about this and what we can do. You know what, Phil? Do you believe that you'll get to the Supreme Court? Do you believe there'll be accountability and justice? Or do you believe that honesty and integrity has been robbed forever in this state? We'll talk about that. Thank you. It's Phil Lyman here. On your radio.

[00:24:54] You're listening to Liberty News Radio. News this hour from townhall.com. I'm Rich Thomason. The White House pausing federal grants and loans as the Trump administration launches an across-the-board review of federal spending. President Trump's budget office announced the funding freeze, saying that all spending must comply with the president's executive orders.

[00:25:18] The halton grants and financial assistance will affect health care research, education programs, and other projects. But an administration memo said Medicare and Social Security benefits will be unaffected. Greg Clugston, the White House. President Trump has signed an executive order that ends DEI in the military. He's also ordering the reinstatement of thousands of service members discharged for refusing to take the COVID-19 vaccine.

[00:25:45] Sounds like House Speaker Mike Johnson not shedding any tears over this. The Democratic Party is in disarray. They have no obvious leader. They have no obvious vision or agenda. Their platform has to be rewritten whole cloth. And they don't exactly know how they're going to wander in this wilderness for the next couple of years. Johnson at a Republican gathering at the Trump Resort in Doral, Florida. These egg prices are for the birds. Minneapolis supermarket manager Mike Vickers.

[00:26:11] It's the first time in my life that I've ever had to be kind of embarrassed on what I'm selling eggs for. And it's not our fault. We're paying today $7.45 for a dozen eggs. We're selling for $7.59. We're making $14. Customer Sage Mills had to buy eggs to make a birthday cake. You know, it's really expensive. The Agriculture Department predicts egg prices are going to soar another 20% this year. I'm Julie Walker.

[00:26:40] Scott Bessent, America's new Treasury Secretary, confirmed by the Senate on a 68-29 vote. On Wall Street this morning, stocks in positive territory. The Dow's up 255 points. The Nasdaq ahead 238. More on these stories at townhall.com. Coverage varies by plan, view, contracts, and exclusions at endurancewarranty.com. Auto repair bills are through the roof. $3,000 to replace the transmission. $4,000 for a blown engine.

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[00:30:12] Broadcasting live from atop the Rocky Mountains, the crossroads of the West, you are listening to the Liberty Roundtable Radio Talk Show. All right, back with you live, ladies and gentlemen, in the roundtable, yours truly, the good Sheriff Richard Mack, CSPUA.org, and Phil Lyman, in my opinion, patriot statesman to say the least. Right before the pause, I was saying, you know, parties are a sham. They have a special privilege.

[00:30:41] They have a special table at the trough, if you will. The government seems to pull the lever in favor of these parties at the expense of the rest of us. It certainly should be a lawsuit in and of itself to where, hey, why do these parties even have the right to exist? I mean, it's true you can go ahead and form a party if you want to, but why do they have a special privilege? That's really part of the problem because the good old boy network comes to mind,

[00:31:03] and the insiders seem to protect one another from transparency, accountability, and appropriate due process of law, I might add. But anyway, I was asking Phil right before the pause, you know, do you have faith in the system? Do you still believe after all that you've been through? Are we going to get to the bottom of this? Are we going to create accountability and eventually have justice, or are we going to just have a situation where, hey, criminal activity just becomes worse and worse and worse and worse until Utah and or the country falls? When I look at this, there's just zero honor in these people.

[00:31:33] Phil? Yeah. I mean, one thing, Sam, that I know for sure is that they have a plan, and they are working, you know, to take away people's freedoms or at least to control resources that, you know, out of greed or whatever it is, but they do have a plan. And the problem that I think we run into is we sometimes don't have a plan. We think that we can, you know, fight it by ourselves or that the power of our ideas will win the day or something. Yeah, but hold on. I have a plan.

[00:32:03] I just want them to leave me the heck alone. That's all I want. Just leave me the heck alone. Let me do my deal. Let me be free and just obey the law and just get out of my way. That's my plan. You know, when I was a county commissioner, somebody made a derogatory comment about soccer moms because they don't get involved. And I said, they're not supposed to be involved. That's what they're supposed to be doing. They're supposed to be raising their families. That's our job is to preserve their rights, not to take them away.

[00:32:28] And it's a shame that people have to get involved in politics, you know. Most people would prefer not to have to worry about, you know, pronouns. Yeah, my old buddy Bo Wright back in the day said, hey, you know what? It's like wrestling with the hogs. Most of these people belong at the bottom of the ocean like whale droppings. But, I mean, so I believe we can win. I believe that it's a contest and I believe we will win. And, you know, the good will prevail in the end.

[00:32:56] But in the meantime, I believe we can win. I got over 200,000 write-in votes. That's a lot of people that were, you know, intentionally not on the ballot, writing my name down, the most in history, by the way, in U.S. history. And it's heartening. It's like they're out there. The fire of liberty, you know, sometimes needs to be rekindled. And I think we rekindle it.

[00:33:24] And even if the nation and everything continues to, you know, go to hell in a hand. And how many votes did you say you got? I'm sorry. A little over 200,000. 200,000. And that's the most in Utah history? In U.S. history. U.S. history. Wow. For write-in votes. That's the most in U.S. history. Strom Thurmond held the record with 135,000 for the last. Anyway, it's. Yeah, that dude was like Joe Biden.

[00:33:53] He served there until he was sold. He couldn't even pay attention. I mean, people don't talk about mine because I still didn't win. You know, Lisa Murkowski, I think she had close to 100,000 write-in votes. But she won. So she's, you know, she gets more kudos than I do in mine. But it's not a small thing. I guess it's that the fight is not symbolic. It's a real fight. And it's a real contest.

[00:34:16] And if people decide, you know, if the solid conservatives in Utah and the GOP decide that we're going to take back our party, I think we'll win that fight. You know, whether we solve the national debt or, you know, selling out to the World Economic Forum and all of the other nonsense that's happening at these really high levels. Let me ask you this question. Are these people flat out? And I use a Book of Mormon, another Testament of Jesus Christ reference.

[00:34:45] You know, the thugs, the bad guys, the secret combinations, people that want to destroy the liberty of all lands were called the Gideontons. Are these people in charge of the Utah Party right now? You say they're taking away our liberties. They've got a plan. You know, are these people flat out Gideonton evil or are they just duped and think they're doing what's best? Or what do you think the reality is for these people? Well, there's definitely a Gideonton band that is alive and well in Utah.

[00:35:14] And they're pulling the strings on people. And whether they're, you know, intimidated, these people are intimidated or duped or whatever. At the top of it, you know, we are. We're fighting against principalities and powers of darkness. And it's very orchestrated, very organized.

[00:35:36] And Utah, for whatever reason, is almost like an epicenter for some of this activity. We it's not that we're being dragged along, you know, on like election integrity challenges. We were leading the charge for, you know, the electronic records information center, Eric, and some of these some of these things. We lead the country in our ability to prevent transparency.

[00:36:06] You know, got rid of our secretary of state. But basically, if you want to be the governor, you have to be the governor. And you can and then you can do whatever you want. And and you can't be looked at. Yeah, it's it's an interesting it's an interesting place. And yes, the Gadiatons are absolutely alive and well in Utah. All right. The robbers, the thieves, the thugs, those who are in charge of secret combinations. By the way, the Book Ormond warns of secret combinations.

[00:36:31] And so did the founding fathers, just so people kind of understand the correlation here, the matters. They understood these secret combinations and realized how sinister and evil they were. And that's why they were so focused on due process and checks and balances. Their goal was to make sure that people couldn't get in that position in the first place. And sadly, we the people haven't been engaged enough. And so we've lost a lot of that. And they violated a lot of the checks and balances like the senators used to represent the states, et cetera. And they've changed the way things work.

[00:37:01] Do you think what what change do you think could make the biggest difference? I mean, on one hand, we always focus on election integrity and that's important. But there's just as many things that are important that relate as well from the budgets to the the way things are passed to the I can go. What single change do you think would make the biggest difference, Phil? I always say that the biggest change agent agent is the realization, realizing what's going on right now.

[00:37:30] I think we give people too much credit that their fraud is because of negligence when what it really is, is a criminal, a criminal effort. And if people realize not that the government's trying hard and they're failing and they're incompetent or whatever, it's like, no, there's there's there's a criminal element at play.

[00:37:53] And if we don't acknowledge that criminal element, then we continue to go along with the status quo. I always I always use the example of when Luke Skywalker found out that Princess Leia was his sister. It really changed the relationship. And that's, you know, people realize that if people wake up and say, you know, this is in Utah. And again, I'm so focused on it.

[00:38:21] But I believe that that Spencer Cox is not negligently committing fraud. I think he's criminally committing fraud. And you look at the money, you look at the covid money that came in nearly a billion dollars that came directly to the governor's office. That's not all the other programs. It came directly to the governor's office with strings attached. And one of those strings was that they had to keep the kids in masks through the end of the school year. It's in writing. He signed a contract to that effect and that he had to spend 10 percent of that on promoting DEI in Utah.

[00:38:50] So so we spend 100 million dollars in Utah and he and he lies about it. He just openly lies. This just this last week, someone asked him about the DEI director for Utah. He said, there's no such thing. I don't have one. Well, the press came out and said, well, what about this woman who is the DEI director and who went from a salary of sixty five thousand to two hundred and sixty five thousand in a matter of four years? I mean, it's just I don't know.

[00:39:17] People just need to recognize that there's a criminal there's a criminal element deliberately trying to undermine our way of life, our freedom. Sheriff Mack, it seems to me that people just feel disenfranchised to the point where they kind of throw up their hands and go, oh, man, I can't do anything about this thing. It's too big. It's too corrupt. It's too evil. I'm afraid if I say anything or stand against it, somehow I'll be, you know, under the thumb in some way.

[00:39:44] And I just, you know, people are flat out afraid. And they've created two classes of people. Sheriff. Yeah, I think you brought up another scripture came to mind. A new commandment I give you that you await to your awful situation. That's really what Phil's talking about. We have got to wake up. We've got to see what's going on. And we've got to make remedies. And that that is so hard.

[00:40:13] You know, overall, you both know that the solution is not if we move forward, but if we go back, go back to Independence Hall and restore those principles upon which America was founded. The reason we're in such trouble, Utah corruption, D.C. corruption, corruption across the country

[00:40:36] is because we have strayed so far away from those fundamental principles that our country was founded upon. And people excuse it because they'll just say, well, that's politics. Don't call it politics. Call it what it is. And I'm glad you did, Phil. Spencer Cox, Governor Cox, is being criminal about this. He is a liar.

[00:41:04] And he has misused his position. He has misused funds. And all of that is fine because you can just say that's politics. And it's really the most provable case of election fraud we literally have on the books to date. It's so sinister and so holistic and it's provable. A lot of the cases are very difficult.

[00:41:32] You can't prove it unless you get to court oftentimes because you've got to subpoena people and everything else. Phil Lyman has managed to put this on the kitchen table and prove the fraud without even having to go to court to do it. And it's one of the premier cases in the country that I think needs to be followed up on and highlighted big time. But I want to say this, though, too. Of all the things that I think we could correct, this is just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth. I believe we've been given the opportunity in America to be the pro-life state.

[00:41:59] We could stand up for pro-life and protect the most innocent among us. And I know at first you're like, Sam, why did you just diverge to the abortion discussion? Because I believe if we can't protect the life of the most innocent group among us, then how are we going to uphold the principle to protect life, liberty, and either the pursuit of happiness or property, whichever you like to use? How are we going to do that for the rest of the citizens if we don't do that for the most innocent among us?

[00:42:26] And so I believe that if we want God's blessings upon us, it starts with a double down, quadruple down pro-life agenda saying we will protect everyone's rights from the unborn all the way through. And we're going to do that. And it's going to be out in the open, transparent, accountable governments to protect life, not destroy life. I think that's really where the solutions start, Phil. Your thoughts? Yeah.

[00:42:55] You know, one of my guiding principles is that honest people have rights too. And the only hope they have is that other honest people will stand up when they're under attack. And nowhere is that more obvious and clear than in the life of an unborn child. They've done nothing to warrant, you know, being mistreated and abused. Can you hear me? Yes, sir, and murdered. Okay. Yeah, and murdered.

[00:43:24] And if honest people aren't going to stand up for them, they can't really claim to be, you know, defenders of truth or honest people. And so, I mean, and that goes to our children. It goes to our neighbors. It goes to, you know, the people who, you know, are basically being targeted by the government unfairly. And we have not only a right but a duty to step in and defend them.

[00:43:48] And if we don't do that, then we're not a society that deserves, you know, the blessings of liberty. We have to, you know, pay the cost of that great blessing. And that is standing up for honest people. Sheriff Mack, I'm convinced that, you know, when Roe v. Wade was in place, most of us were born into a situation or you were so young before it mattered that, you know, to where we didn't really have a say. It was just pro-death and that was the agenda.

[00:44:15] And even though we stood against it, that's good, but we couldn't do much about it. Now that it's turned over to the states, each state has the opportunity to be responsible for their own, quote, agency, if you will. In other words, smaller populations. In Utah, for example, you got 4 million people, 3 plus million, whatever the number is. And there should be, for the most part, pro-life. And will we become a pro-life state?

[00:44:42] And I believe eventually God will start to send out his wrath and or protection based on the decisions that each state makes. And you're going to see the pro-death states start to have the retributions of God. And the ones that actually stand for the unborn and protect life will be protected to a great degree. And it won't be 100% across the board like that. But you're going to see accountability at a much more finite level and a much more, whatever you want to call it, smaller population level where we can decide.

[00:45:11] And we will be judged because nations are judged immediately for their actions there too. Your thoughts, Sheriff Mack? Of course, you're both absolutely correct. And we're talking about government corruption. I don't think anything could be more corrupt than we've actually called killing an unborn child is a constitutional right.

[00:45:40] There couldn't be anything more perverted than that and just such a debased evil thing. And this whole thing keeps coming out. And again, that's just to me is the greatest sign or the worst sign, if you will, of government corruption that we are doing that.

[00:46:04] Added to that is that the taxpayers of this country are forced by law or we go to jail if we don't continue to pay taxes to Planned Parenthood. And that's one of the things on our list to get rid of with this new administration. With the red wave, with Trump and Johnson. Johnson actually said two or three months ago that defunding Planned Parenthood is top on the list.

[00:46:34] So I know Trump can't do it alone, but he can certainly make a lot of noise for it because it is a funding issue and that belongs to Congress. But he should be really pushing and he could propose that. And I sure hope he does right away. That is the epitome of corruption in this country. Amen to that. I've got a couple of other quick issues before the end of the hour that I'd like you guys to comment on. They're a little bit switching gears, but they're kind of fun as well.

[00:47:03] I got a story from Good News. I watch a Good News website and they have Good News. And here's the headline. Officer crowdfunds $40,000 for pizza driver who only got a $2 tip and a snowstorm delivery. The cop found out about it, started a campaign to raise money for this poor guy that got a $2 tip even though he was doubling down in the storm to deliver the pizza and everything else.

[00:47:29] And I know it's kind of a silly story in a way, but it just shows the goodness of the American people as well. Because if you're not careful and you drill into this, you go, man, everything is just corrupt. Everything is just horrible. No, there's good people doing good things every day, Sheriff. Yeah, there is. And we see that even with some politicians. And sometimes we give them really a bum steer, but most of them deserve it. But that was a good humanitarian story.

[00:47:57] And I do like to share the good stuff. There's a lot of good people in this country and in this world. And I will tell you, Phil Lyman is one of them. He is a good person. He's a good man. He's a statesman. He really believes in standing for freedom. He did when he was a county commissioner. And we all need to do that. This is what America was founded on. Honorable people.

[00:48:27] And when it said, when John Adams and others said that our Constitution was only meant for a moral and religious people, that might be our epitaph. But it nevertheless is true. And that's something else we need to wake up to. That is what the intent was of the founding fathers was. And so I hope that we'll all get back to the basics of our Declaration of Independence and Constitution.

[00:48:57] That's the solution for all of this. Phil, what do you think about that story? I just, once in a while, I've got to throw in just some good news where it's just like, at least something's good's happening. No, I love that story. And, you know, that is the epic battle that we face. I mean, you can take on the government. You can do all that. But the real opportunities are right next to us, you know, our communities and doing something good for people.

[00:49:25] And if anybody ever wanted to be involved in like an epic battle between good and evil, thank goodness it's available to every one of us. I mean, go out and do something good. Yeah, I love that story. I hadn't heard that. That's, yeah, it warms my heart. Because that's what people, that's who we are. I mean, I think you take 80% of the people and that's really who we are. So we're just being, you know, influenced and manipulated by agenda-driven, politically motivated people.

[00:49:56] Well, we can hope for good things. Well, Phil, I want to end on this topic. You've got a good name. You know, Phil, I like that name. And I bring this up because Dr. Phil is in the news too. And I know you're the Dr. Phil of elections and election integrity. This guy's Dr. Phil, though. Dr. Phil teamed up with Tom Holman, ladies and gentlemen. And they went and they did a high-stakes criminal illegal alien arrest. Townhall.com with the piece.

[00:50:25] There's a whole video of it. And Dr. Phil and Tom Holman are arresting this clown thug late at night in Chicago. And they're like, hey, did you, you know, did you get in trouble for, you know, sexually abusing people and anything else? The guy's like, oh, not really. Anyway, they arrest this guy, haul him off and send him out of the country, Phil. Well, yeah. I have always really liked my name too.

[00:50:54] And I'm glad my parents gave it to me. But, yeah, it means that you love. It means you care. You know, brotherly love. Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love. Yeah, hopefully that's what I guess people do. Sheriff, do you want to respond to this one? I just found it pretty cool. I think that's amazing. I'd love to go with Tom and do that myself. Me too. But I think it's amazing that Dr. Phil would be putting himself on the line like that.

[00:51:23] But more power to him because, heck, he's trying to save America just like the rest of us are. And people are losing their minds over Dr. Phil doing it, Sheriff. So I think you need to do it next. We need to get all kinds of people to go ride with Tom. Well, Dr. Phil needs to have all those people on his show and then do a psychological analysis on all of them. Oh, man. The whole nation is crazy, Phil. It's still great.

[00:51:49] Tom Holman is such a straight thinker, and his responses are always just so common sense. I love it. Well, if we can get Cash Patel in place, and then if Sheriff Matt can start going on rides with Tom Holman, we're making progress. We can do some videos of that too and really create accountability from the inside. Phil, our prayers are with you, sir. We know that it's an epic battle. We know that it's tough. We know that you need to raise money and get support.

[00:52:18] Our prayers are with you, and we will do all that we can to help. What we want is due process of law and accountability and transparency. We don't seek for power. We seek to pull it down, Phil. Yeah, and my prayers are with you as well. You're doing so much good, and I can't thank you enough. All right, there he goes. Phil Lyman, ladies and gentlemen, doing a great job. Sheriff Mack, there's so much to cover in these cases. There's never enough time to really drill into everything that I'd like to.

[00:52:44] We try to give people kind of a thumbnail and then hope they can go look things up themselves and donate and get involved. Lyman4Utah.com, L-Y-M-A-N, spelled out for Utah. Lyman4Utah.com. You can donate. You can help him with his quest. I know he's not governor now, but he really wants transparency and accountability, and he is still fighting the good fight to the Supreme Court. And we pray, Sheriff Mack, miracle of miracles, that he gets there. Yeah, I just want the truth to come out, whatever it is.

[00:53:14] If Phil's lying – I know he's not lying. If Phil is wrong, then fine. Bring it out. Tell the Republican Party to show their evidence and show where he's wrong, or even if he was lying about all this. But the audits are to prove he's right. Yeah, exactly. So if he's not wrong, if he's not lying, then he is the governor of Utah.

[00:53:44] And I guess it doesn't quite go that far. They need to have the Democrat and Phil Lyman do a runoff. That would be the legitimate election process. Yeah, because we can unwind what was wrong and go from there. By the way, Joe Biden's not competent, so I think all of his pardons could be unwound as well, Sheriff Mack. They do that to individuals in finance. If you're not competent to sign this document or that document, they can unwind the transactions.

[00:54:13] I think they just need to simply unwind Joe's actions that he doesn't even know he made. There might be some truth to that. All right, there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. Sheriff Mack, CSPOA.org. Become a member today. Phil Lyman, we're just grateful for all your hard work, ladies and gentlemen. I am Sam Bushman. This is the one and only Liberty Roundtable Live. God save the republic of the United States of America.