[00:00:04] Broadcasting live from atop the Rocky Mountains, the crossroads of the West. You are listening to the Liberty Roundtable Radio Talk Show. Wilkinson with us, ladies and gentlemen. You ask who is he? If you don't know, man, you're living under a rock. All right. He's the director of media systems and operations over at Braver Angels, braverangels.org, ladies and gentlemen.
[00:00:33] And he's also a podcaster in his own right, does a show called Derate the Hate. Derate is an engineering term to reduce maximum output so we can run something under its maximum. So, hey, you know what? We don't get damage done. And you know what? We're getting damage done in America because the hate's just ratcheted up on all sides. They've got to derate that hate. That is the podcast that Wilk runs. Tremendous stuff. Braver Angels, a group that does their very, very best to bring people together.
[00:01:01] It's not about Republicans, Democrats, liberals, conservatives, you know, left, right, tall, short, fat, skinny, none of that. It's all about people standing together for the sacred cause of liberty to say, you know what? We want to be free to choose as we will. We understand that there are civility things that can be put in place that can make a difference. You know what? You can say what you believe. That's fine. It's how you say it oftentimes that matters. That's kind of the key to the exercise. And they've got an event coming up.
[00:01:30] Wilk is here to talk about it. Welcome back to the show, sir. It is great to be here, Sam. Thank you so much for the invitation. Now, Mr. Wilkinson, ladies and gentlemen, is a devoted husband, loving father, pastor, or a Christian conservative, insightful host, and more. He started out with not so great of a life as I remember. Things were kind of a struggle growing up.
[00:01:55] But you know what? He's conquered that. He's basically taken the time to kind of humble himself and say, what's important? It isn't good to hate. It isn't good to feel like you've got the short end of the stick all the time. It's better to take control of your own life and take action and be resilient. And that's really what brought you where you are today, right? No, that's absolutely right, Sam.
[00:02:17] I went on kind of a mindset journey a number of years ago, realizing that a lot of my misery, a lot of the things that were making me miserable from my past, a lot of the animus that I carried, was just not doing me any favors. And the reality is, if you're going to have a bright future, you cannot continue to focus on your dark past.
[00:02:44] So I started on this mindset journey, started doing a lot of reading and a lot of introspection, and came to the realization that the common denominator in the vast majority of my problems, Sam, was me. So I started working through all that and started a podcast in 2020, and Braver Angels found me in 2021 and volunteered with them for several years. And now I'm very proud to be on their staff.
[00:03:10] And was it Derate the Hate? Was it actually named Derate the Hate? Derate the Hate? Sorry. Wow. Derate the Hate. Was it that before you met Braver Angels too? It was, yeah. It was Derate the Hate starting back in early 2020 when I started it. In April of 2020 when I started the podcast, I called it Derate the Hate. And there's a little bit of a story behind that if you'd like me to share it. Sure. I'd love it.
[00:03:36] Yeah. So I was in trucking and transportation for 26 years before I started doing the – well, the last several years I was doing both. But before I started doing depolarization and mindset work, I was in trucking and transportation 14 years as a driver and 12 years as a manager. And by the way, not a bad job and not a bad thing, right? It was a great job. I mean, it was a great career.
[00:04:02] I was a blessed, blessed man to have worked for the companies that I worked for and done the work that I did and grew the way that I did out of the – except for the round part in the middle, but the growth, the mental growth was the real part that I take away from it as a blessing because I was a blue-collar guy the vast majority of my life. And without a college degree, worked my way up into management and trucking and transportation.
[00:04:31] But people that are in trucking and transportation are very familiar with the idea of something derating. And that's when the engine – you had mentioned it's an engineering term. And in terms of audio and other things, it is the idea of turning something down so it can't operate at maximum level.
[00:04:52] In terms of trucking, that means to turn the operating system, the engine, the power train of that system, that truck down so that it does not destroy itself. So when I started thinking about how I was going to start a podcast and what I was going to name it and everything else, there was a double meaning there. It was the trucking and transportation idea of derating something so it doesn't destroy itself.
[00:05:21] And then also the audio version of derating, and that means to derate a mic, derate an amplifier, derate a speaker. It means to turn it down. Derate our mouth. Yeah. It all worked out, man. All right. I want to derate – wow. I want to derail slightly from the conversation because we're really here to talk about your Philadelphia event coming up June 25th through the 28th in Philadelphia. And we'll do that without question.
[00:05:50] But just because you mentioned that you've got such a background and experience in trucking, you know, fuel costs are through the roof and people are freaking out. And a lot of people think, oh, don't worry, I don't buy diesel anyway. Who cares? What they don't understand is that diesel, whether it be train, in other words, rail and or trucking, undergirds everything we buy, use, eat, wear. I mean, the list goes on and on. So I want to get your kind of take on this. You know, it's a tough subject because you don't want to be for or against Trump. You want to be for America.
[00:06:19] But at the same time, what are your thoughts on this whole kind of inflation slash fuel slash straight-up-hormose slash whatever? Give me kind of a truckers, not a left-right, not a political, but a truckers view. And or a you're an American too and now you're on the other side saying I want to buy goods and services too and I can't afford them if they're too expensive. Give me your take, sir. Yeah, Sam. So it's one of these things that every single one of us is dealing with, right?
[00:06:47] The cost of trucking and transportation. There is not a human being in this country for certain that is not affected by the cost of trucking and transportation. And when the cost of fuel goes up, the cost of trucking and transportation goes up. So everything that we, like you said, eat, everything we wear, everything we do somehow involves riding on a truck.
[00:07:17] And when the cost of fuel, like in most – in the state in which I live right now, the cost of diesel fuel I believe is over $5 a gallon. In other states that I've been in recently, it's much more than that. And the reality is that cost gets passed on to the consumer. So the nonpartisan, if we're going to go with that – I'm a very conservative guy and I've got all kinds of takes on all kinds of things.
[00:07:43] But the nonpartisan take on this is we absolutely, as citizens right now, need to be doing everything that we can to encourage our lawmakers, whoever they may be, and whatever side of the aisle they may sit on to figure this thing out and get that cost of fuel down.
[00:08:03] Because, yeah, I mean the food that you eat in restaurants and the food that you pick up at grocery stores, whether it be fresh, whether it be organic, whether it be processed, none of that matters because it's all been on a truck one time or another. And with every cent that that fuel cost goes up, there's another portion of a penny that gets passed on to the consumer.
[00:08:26] So it's very important that we work through these things and say what you will about Iran and what they may or may not have had and what they're doing. And the thing is there's a lot of fuel, a lot of oil that passes through the Strait of Hormuz. And if we don't get that back under control, as we should – I mean it's international waters. It's not a – it doesn't belong to Iran.
[00:08:55] So we absolutely need to get that back open and do it as quickly as possible. And we just pray for all the people that are out there trying to make that happen. Now I asked for the nonpartisan point on purpose because it's fine for us to speak like that. It's wise for us to learn and think like that because it helps us see other people's points of view. That's phenomenal.
[00:09:18] But you don't have to jettison your own views, your own beliefs, your own thoughts to understand or to think that way. It's kind of like, hey, what would it be like if I was in your shoes? It's good for me to consider that view or the other guy's view. At the same time, that doesn't mean you have to jettison your views. It just means you have to temper how you articulate your views in ways that can bring people together and let people see your side of the viewpoint, not just go, you're a nutcase, you're a whack job, I'm not talking to you, bye, kind of thing.
[00:09:48] So what's your real take as a person now, Wilk? You have your own beliefs, right? Well, yeah. I mean, the reality is, and I don't follow foreign policy enough to really take a hard and fast stance, Sam, on what is actually happening in Iran.
[00:10:15] And, again, I don't have the inside information, the intelligence information that the powers that be have. So what happened in Iran seems suspect to me in certain ways, but I would like to believe that the people that are making the decisions are doing it for the right reasons.
[00:10:41] And I would love to see this thing get over as an American, as a veteran, as somebody who loves my country and loves our fellow. Hold on, everybody. Wilk Wilkinson, Braver Angels with us back in Seconds Liberty Roundtable Live. As a parent, is receiving a faith-based, character-focused education for your children difficult to find? Do you believe that godly principles should be a central component in your child's education?
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[00:12:07] The day includes a host of respected speakers, two meals, and meaningful connections. You'll gain clarity on the issues and walk away with practical steps you can take to your community. Reserve your seat today at JBS.org forward slash SLC26. That's JBS.org forward slash SLC26. Sheriff Mack, standing tall, still answering freedom's call.
[00:12:37] A constitutional track. Back with you live, ladies and gentlemen. I know that sounds, Richard Mack, what are we talking about? Well, he usually joins us on Tuesday. It kind of started out as the Richard Mack show. I did that with him for a long time. It's still Liberty Roundtable Live, but we did kind of the Richard Mack focus on Sheriff's Tuesdays stuff for a long time. And that song kind of comes from that. He's not here today. I wish he was. He wanted to be because he wanted to meet Wilk and learn more about what's going on with that. But I intentionally brought up the nonpartisan focus.
[00:13:04] We can talk about it from a factual point of view, folks, where we just simply say, hey, gas costs are going up for everybody. And just so you understand factually from a knowledgeable transportation experts point of view, here's what happens when that occurs. Da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Now we've established the facts from a nonpartisan, non-opinion, non-divisionary way. And we say, okay, you know what? We established that as kind of the, hey, that's truth.
[00:13:28] And now we can back into our own beliefs, our own viewpoints, but we can do so with a little bit of understanding, a little bit of respect, a little bit of credibility. So Wilk is basically saying, Wilk Wilkins with me, ladies and gentlemen, braver angels. But Wilk is saying, you know what? I'm not really involved in the political side of that that much. I'm not, I don't have the aptitude for it. I'm not that interested in it per se as much as I don't have all the inside, you know, baseball on that. So I don't really know kind of thing. Have I overstated it, Wilk, or is that right?
[00:13:57] No, I think that's right. I tried not to delve too deep into international affairs because I just don't have the time and would never claim to be an expert on it. Sure. But yeah, I mean, obviously I have a vested interest just like all other Americans. I just don't have the time to look at it and I don't pretend to be an expert on it. But your vested interest really is saying, hey, I believe that there are people who do have the backstory, people who do have the inside baseball, people who are working on it.
[00:14:26] And I trust and hope and pray that they get it done in a meaningful way for me and my family. And that's kind of your take, right? That is absolutely my take. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the deal, Sam, is, you know, we got a lot of people that are out there elected to and hired to represent us and work through those things. Because it's just too much for any one person to deal with.
[00:14:53] And the more that they can do to keep us safe, the better we are. And I just pray for them. Amen. You're right about that. So listen to what I've done, ladies and gentlemen. I started out on common ground, which is to say, hey, what are the facts? What are the details? What are the, you know what? We all want to hear that. Then I kind of backed into what are your beliefs? And he explained them. And then I took the time to listen. And then I took the time to kind of recap, not to speak for him, not to put words in his mouth, but to make sure that I really understand where he's coming from.
[00:15:22] And some of these are principles that will be taught at the seminar and the event coming up that we'll be talking about. Braverangels.org has an event, the 25th through the 28th of June. Ladies and gentlemen of Philadelphia, you should be there. Braverangels.org to learn more and get your tickets to ride today, ladies and gentlemen. But anyway, so I summarized so that I could kind of understand what he has to say. But understand, folks, common ground is something you might start on, right? But you don't have to have middle ground. What's common ground, middle ground?
[00:15:52] What are these terms? When can I keep my beliefs but work with other people? And when are we expected to jettison our beliefs to get along? That's a big, big point people need to really dig into and understand, Wilk. Yeah, well, and that's where we at Braver Angels want to make sure that everybody understands, Sam, is that we're not asking anybody to jettison their beliefs at all. You know, we encourage people to hold on to their strongly held convictions.
[00:16:20] It's just a matter of how we interact with others that have differences, right? You made an incredible point when you said, you know, we started off with common ground, looking at common ground, but then you're listening, right? And that's where this thing that we do at Braver Angels and in the bridging space more broadly is so important is it's not about jettisoning one's beliefs or abandoning one's strongly held convictions or principles.
[00:16:49] It's a matter of how do we work together to get things done across differences despite our differences? Maybe even, you know, maybe even find a solution that's better than the sum of its parts because of our differences. You know, the reality is if we're not listening to each other, Sam, we cannot. Yeah, it is synergy. It is synergy.
[00:17:14] Dr. Stephen Covey, seven habits of highly effective people, right, is synergized versus compromised. It's not a matter of finding some squishy middle or some middle ground. It's a matter of how do we use our differences? How do we use the idea that we don't think in some monolithic fashion? And how can we come together to find a solution that's better than the sum of its parts? All right.
[00:17:40] It seems to me that I have very, oh, I don't know what you'd say, out of step beliefs in modern society. Okay. However, if we were in the founders era, I'd be in pretty good, solid common ground. And that's really kind of important to understand when people listen to Sam Bushman. What you're listening to is somebody who believes in God, family, and country and who believes that's the solution to all of our problems. God, family, and country. I don't care what the problem is.
[00:18:10] The answer is somehow involved with God, family, and country in some way. The solution is that. Now, that's my reference point. And I think one of the things people need to learn to do is kind of stake out the reference points. So when you hear my next statements, you go, I see why he thinks what he thinks because here's his reference point. Here's his framework for understanding belief, solutions, et cetera. I may not agree with him, but I at least understand where he's coming from now because that's who he says he is. He's a God, family, country guy.
[00:18:39] And so, you know, that doesn't mean he can't work with atheists. It just means that everything he thinks about is going to relate to a God. I may not agree with him in a theological sense either, but that's okay. I understand. Family. Okay. That's top. I mean, that's second in his list. Country, America. That doesn't mean I don't want any other countries to do well. I want every country to do well. I want, you know, Brazil to be Brazil first for the Brazilians, right? I want everybody to think great for their country. I want every country. I want to lift all boats. But I believe it's done through the principles of God, family, and country.
[00:19:09] And so that's my reference point. So here's my take. I'm not a transportation expert. I've never been a trucker. I don't really understand all the supply chain stuff, although as an IT guy, I get involved in a lot of industries, so I know a little bit about a lot of things. I'm super dangerous that way. But I bring that up because I'm not any of those things. But here's what I am. I am a constitutional scholar. I am a constitutional educator.
[00:19:34] And so from a constitutional point of view, I say, hey, man, we, if we're going to go to war, must bring the case to Congress. Congress represents us all. Congress is the one who has authority to declare war. And Congress is the one who has the authority if we're going to do something less of war, market reprisal, whatever the case may be. Congress needs to fund it. They need to get their arms around it and commission the president to carry it out as the executive chief.
[00:19:59] And if we don't go through those proper channels, Sam Bushman has a problem with it, not because it doesn't need to happen. Maybe with the inside intel that I don't have, it's necessary. I don't care. My point is, if it is necessary, let's do it according to our law. Let's do it. Remember, God, family and country. And if we're going to look at country, then we say we're going to use the framework we have. If you don't like the framework, we can talk about changing it.
[00:20:23] But until then, that's where I stand is with the rule of the supreme law of our land, which says Congress, get off your duff and get to work. Get it done. Don't leave the president out to hang. Don't let the president do whatever he wants to. Let's get together as a country. Let's define the goals. Let's get in, fund it, get the job done and get out if it needs to happen. If it doesn't need to happen, then let's not go. But let's make sure that we have enough common ground for discussions, and then let's make sure that we have our own opinions. That's one thing people need to learn in business, too.
[00:20:53] When it's time to discuss and brainstorm, by all means, raise your hand. But when it's time where the Congress has decided, because they're the proper role, they're the ones that have that responsibility in the supreme law of the land. We delegated that responsibility to them. When it's go time, it's not time to have opinions now. It's time to say I get behind the country even if I don't like what they chose. I ride for the brand. Discussion time is over. We're doing this now. So we're already in a war, like it or not. I don't like how we got here.
[00:21:20] But the next question is we all should pray for peace on how to get out, right? We all should say, hey, Congress, step up to the plate. Give Trump some funding and some guidance. Let's get this defined and done and one and done and whatever. And so my point of view is just a constitutional point of view. Do it right. And I'm behind you. Even if I disagree with the decision, once the decision is made, I'll be your biggest supporter. Not because I agree with the decision, but because I ride for the brand. Because I understand that, hey, there's time to discuss and there's go time. And Sam Bushman is not the ultimate decision maker.
[00:21:50] Now, it probably should be that I am. I'm just kidding. Of course not. Right? Folks, the point is we've got to really think through this. There's time to discuss and then there's go time. And when it's go time, it's not time to criticize the leaders that made the decision. And so President Trump already went to war. I'm not criticizing him about that anymore. We're past it. We can't undo it. What we can do, though, is tell Congress to do their job and step up and give him funding and guidance. Let's let the people through their representatives lay out the plan, get it done, and come home. Am I crazy, Wilk?
[00:22:19] Well, I don't think you're crazy at all, Sam. I think that's absolutely right. I think Congress needs to do their job. I think we need to start celebrating the separation of powers again. But, yeah, the reality is a lot of things aren't getting done today, whether it be what we're involved here in this Iran war or a lot of other things that are happening or should be happening in Congress.
[00:22:46] And I think I take it back to something we've already been talking about, and that's that why are things not getting done? And I would contend that it's because of toxic polarization. Amen. This us versus them, tribalism, is, as my friend John Wood Jr. says, it's the one problem that ensures all other problems don't get solved. You know, when we have both houses, you know, both houses are split and neither side of either house wants to work with each other, you know, be in the House and the Senate.
[00:23:15] The reality is, is nothing's going to get done and nothing meaningful is going to get done. So we need to work through that. We need a clarion call for civility, ladies and gentlemen, clarion call for civility. Call for civility.com is my website. My book's coming out soon, a clarion call for civility, where we really need to kind of step back and say it begins with me. And I can decide how I'm going to behave. I can't control everybody else, but I can decide how I'm going to behave. But the solutions in my mind relate to God. You know, love the Lord thy God and love thy neighbor as thyself.
[00:23:45] What better guidance for a civil society than family? You learn the principles of civility and kindness and how to work through conflict and disagreement and all that kind of stuff. You learn that first in your family, right? And then later, ladies and gentlemen, as you interact in society, then it relates to your country very clearly as well. Ladies and gentlemen, we don't need common ground. We don't need middle ground. What we need is civility to say, hey, I don't even agree, but I can agree to disagree agreeably.
[00:24:14] I can be kind about it. I can hold the moral high ground. What about that if we all search for higher ground, ladies and gentlemen? Wilkins with me, director of media systems and operations for BraverAngels.org. Their conference is coming up in Philadelphia, the 25th through the 28th. We'll be talking about it next episode in great detail. I'm Sam Bushman. We're everywhere. Rumble, YouTube, X. Spread the word.
[00:24:44] God save our republic.