[00:00:04] Broadcasting live from atop the Rocky Mountains, the crossroads of the West, you are listening to the Liberty Roundtable Radio Talk Show. Welcome back to Liberty RoundTable Podcast with your host Sam Bushman and of course myself Lance Migliaccio. It's Tip of the Spear. We're here with the producer and director of the film The Responders.
[00:00:34] We're uncovering and of course pulling back the curtain for the government on 9-11. Sam, you know, it's just interesting when you get down to the truth of what really happened there. There's so many inconsistencies and you've got these witnesses that felt the shock waves, felt the blast waves. There's no way that Building 7 could have come down the way they describe it or of course the narrative that the government's told us.
[00:00:58] Now Chris Joya, just for the audience, Chris can you give them a little bit of your background because you are really a commercial construction expert in your own right trained by the military, correct? Yes, Lance, that's correct. I had joined the Marines and my classification was 1421 construction surveyor.
[00:01:20] I was trained by the Army. I went to Fort Belvoir, Virginia, where I spent six months training as a heavy construction surveyor. When I got out of the Marines, I got a job with Local 15 in New York City. So I've been working in construction, heavy construction since I would say the late 90s, 80s and 90s. I've been in construction.
[00:01:49] Anyhow, my construction experience has been in high rise construction, bridges, power plants, airports. I've worked extensively in Manhattan and the five boroughs, and I've worked around foundations. I've built buildings from the ground up. So I'm fully cognizant of what goes into these structures and how they're put together. And drill in a little bit to this then.
[00:02:16] We're told that planes took those buildings down virtually impossible, right? Absolutely. Especially in, as Lance would say, building seven. Building seven, if you look at the videos, building seven is not collapsing from the top. It collapses from the bottom straight down symmetrically into its own footprint.
[00:02:40] And for that to happen, that's the key to solving 9-11 is building seven. That is obviously a controlled demolition. All you need to do is compare that, the video of that building collapsing with other controlled demolitions from around the world. And they are exactly the same. You look at it and you look at it seeing as believing. Chris, just for the audience, I've heard, and of course on all these shows that I've done over this,
[00:03:09] that the construction quality in the twin towers in building seven was top tier. Can you tell the audience about the thickness of the steel beams and the skeleton? And just that's why this becomes impossible. Because when you start to look at the quality of the way they built it, and a lot of that was based on wind shear, which is excessive in a building of buildings of this height. Just give them a little bit of that, Chris. So the audience understands why this is impossible. It's not just us throwing out that concept.
[00:03:36] Steel frame skyscrapers, and especially in New York, they undergo rigorous examination by the building department. There's all kinds of codes on how to construct these buildings. Building seven, the twin towers, these are robust steel frame skyscrapers.
[00:04:03] The thickness of the steel, the connections, these are thick, heavy steel beams, inches thick. Okay? Fire cannot melt. It could weaken the steel if you expose it to like hours and hours of flame. But you're talking about steel beams that are like three or four inches thick. As FDNY firefighter Rudy Dent said, he had a good analogy.
[00:04:31] He said, you could cook on your barbecue all day. He goes, your barbecue doesn't collapse. These buildings and any skyscraper in Manhattan, they're over-designed to handle the loads. These are type one. They're not fire resistant. These are fire proof buildings, and they've never collapsed before or since 9-11.
[00:04:56] It's the only three known building collapses that allegedly due to fire happened on 9-11. They have not happened since. And this, Chris, is really where the government kind of basically says, hey, we know that it doesn't add up. We know that it doesn't make sense. We know that it's technically and physically not possible. However, we're the government. And we're telling you planes hit the building, drop the buildings, virtually end a story.
[00:05:26] And we're going to put out the 9-11 report knowing and admitting that it's false, but letting that be the body of record instead of reality based on facts, testimony. This commission didn't really even vet the reality of this thing, did they? No, Sam, not at all.
[00:05:46] They did not interview any witnesses from the fire police and EMS, any witnesses who said they heard and saw explosions. That testimony was totally excluded from the 9-11 commission report, and it was only brought to light because there was a lawsuit by the New York Times that got these testimonies released.
[00:06:11] And that happened a year after the 9-11 commission had disbanded. So the 9-11 commission did not they didn't accept any testimonies from people that were contrary to their already preconceived official narrative. And Sam, let me jump in here because of course the lack of testing. Chris and John had mentioned that when we interviewed him on my show.
[00:06:38] I want to talk about liquefied steel because thermite can do that. And, you know, that's one exception. But thermite wouldn't be present, wouldn't be present unless somebody planted it. And the material that was used in the construction, there's a lack of material in places and there is liquefied steel. They try to contend that the jet fuel can do that.
[00:06:58] But when the military wants to liquefy steel, when they want to damage things like they should have done in Afghanistan, they use thermite, which of course burns at a temperature that can actually liquefy steel and other metals. But but Chris, let's talk about the lack of testing. Normally in a situation like this, there would be a massive amount of testing done, correct? Lance, I am so glad you said that. Yes.
[00:07:22] So the guide for fire and explosion investigations is called NFPA 921. That's not National Fire Protection Association. OK, I just want to read this to you. I have it on the screen about what NFPA stands for 921.
[00:07:43] NFPA 921 sets the bar for scientific based investigation and analysis of fire and explosion incidents. It's referenced in the field, in training and in court. It is the foremost guide for rendering accurate opinions as to incident origin, cause, responsibility and prevention.
[00:08:11] It is intended for use by both public sector employees who are responsible for fire investigation and private sector professionals who conduct investigations for insurance companies or litigation purposes. The 911 commission and NIST, they totally ignored, totally ignored.
[00:08:35] But NFPA 921 did not examine the wreckage for evidence of explosions. They already decided that, oh, well, nobody heard an explosion. And we don't have eyewitness testimony of people who said they heard or saw explosions. So you know what? We're not going to check for explosions. And then they turn around. This is what NIST actually said, that they found this is the bullshit that the government wants us to accept.
[00:09:04] They turn around, they turn around and this turns around and tells us that, oh, yeah, we didn't find any evidence of explosives. But in the same breath, a reporter called them out. Well, did you check for explosives? And they said, no, we didn't check for explosives. So that pretty much sums up how you get the how that the government is with double speak and bullshit about what how they conducted their explosion investigation. And just for the audience, I got to say this.
[00:09:34] So so jet fuel burns, I think, at around 425 degrees Celsius or 815 degrees Celsius, which I think is about 1500 Fahrenheit. There might burns depending on the composition somewhere, I think, between 43 or 4400 and past 5000. Now, Chris, is there any possibility that 1500 degrees Fahrenheit can melt structural steel?
[00:09:59] No, no, no, it may weaken the steel if you're talking thin steel. But the steel in the and the traits in these buildings was was inches thick. And the and the fire from the jet fuel burns at a much lower temperature. Now, now you have to take into account that at least half to two thirds of the fuel went up in a fireball.
[00:10:26] So you're talking a normal office content of fire that that's it's just office contents that are burning and they burn it a much. Well, even if it could, Chris, even if it could, though, if the top stories got hit by a plane and even if that accelerant could burn that hot, it would only burn that hot at the top. It wouldn't affect the lower floors either, would it? Because they wouldn't have that kind of direct heat applied, even if it was true.
[00:10:53] Yes, Sam, you absolutely, absolutely right that the the top floors. Yes, the top floors have been damaged. Yes, there's fire up at the top floors. But the lower floors of of the Twin Towers were intact. There's nothing wrong with that. And they've been so over designed that, yeah, you could have a partial collapse of the top, but you have all the bottom of the bottom structure is still holding up those buildings.
[00:11:21] So it's impossible for the building to collapse at three fall speed through the path of most resistance into all the steel that hasn't been damaged. John, I'm the government. I'm just telling you that that's the way it went, sir. And, you know, OK, this is the kind of propaganda we're hearing. And that's why I really hope President Trump, if he doesn't want to have fake news, then he's got to deliver on this one.
[00:11:48] Congress seems to have they're paralyzed on the issue. But, John, you directed films. You've examined power assassinations, all this kind of stuff. Official narratives. Tell me about these accounts and how it fits into your body of work a little bit. And then tell me, did anything shock you in this? Because, look, I have studied and know a lot about 9-11. But, man, you guys had some great stuff in there that I did not know. John? Well, you know, yes, you're right.
[00:12:17] Our whole career starting with a film we did, funny enough, for the BBC and the Sundance Channel called The American Ruling Class with Lewis Lapham, which is actually now at on Criterion Collection. I mean, you know, we've been studying power. We are doing we're in the midst of a multi year project on the major assassinations of the 60s. It's the same pattern over and over again. They, you know, they create these crises and they get people all worked up. And, you know, it goes, you know, to Pearl Harbor.
[00:12:46] I mean, they they did everything they could to provoke a Japanese first strike. And we interviewed the guy who found that document. You know, here are the seven things to do. And they, you know, they got us into that war of a bunch of Americans were sick of going to European wars because of what happened during World War One. And so they knew they had to push the American people with a surprise attack by provoking the Japanese into a surprise attack. Now, of course, we're glad that we defeated the Nazis and the Japanese.
[00:13:16] Of course, it would have been great if perhaps the Germans hadn't been funded by certain major U.S. banks and corporations to begin with. But leave that aside. This is what they depend on. War is the health of the state, as Randolph Bourne said back around the time of World War One. And, you know, with weapons of mass destruction, you really can't have industrial interstate wars, as a British general put it. But you need to keep that power of war, the power of fear.
[00:13:44] So you have to create fear and you have to. And it generates money, money, money at every level. That's fascinating. That's it. That's why I stated that Prescott Bush was involved in kind of the World War Two first take the first strike and then let that lead to the American people backing war. And it's interesting that Bush was involved in this one. Am I crazy, John? No, you're not crazy at all. And, of course, we know that one of the brothers was on the board of Securicom, which handled the security for those buildings.
[00:14:13] And we know there were people crawling all over those elevator shafts in the months leading up to 9-11. And, you know, what do they get at? Look, I had a cousin who worked in the State Department at the time. He goes, we watched the contractors, right, the military contractors, sprout like mushrooms on the road from Langley to D.C. So, you know, so many billions and billions and, in fact, trillions of dollars were made on the war on terror.
[00:14:39] So who's got the means, motive and opportunity to do everything that happened on 9-11? It's the top levels of our military industrial complex as President, former General Eisenhower warned us about in his farewell address. You know, a true American who did his best, at the end at least, to stop what he had seen kind of metastasizing around us with the Cold War. You know, we just had to be on a permanent war economy.
[00:15:07] They just decided that's the way it's going to be. And they even sucked in the don, ladies and gentlemen. There you have it. I want to go to Chief Goya for a second. You know, you guys passed a resolution and you did a bunch of great stuff to kind of kick this off. One, what took so long for these people to come to the table, first responders, and tell their story? And two, once you got that resolution done, you thought you could go to Congress and have people start to take action, right?
[00:15:34] Yes, that was the impetus behind getting the resolution passed, that it would have given us some ammunition to move forward. And it actually did. The reason that things, you know, I know it seems like it was a long time, but, you know, this goes back to what everybody was saying. Why is this just coming out now all these years later and everything like that?
[00:16:01] You've got to remember that people who are on top of 9-11 who have been through it. And I was just on, yeah, I saw it happen and I was down there, but I wasn't down there that very first day. I was down there the second day. But people, you know, the firemen who were there and the cops and the EMS people, you know, they were in the middle of a war that, you know, they got just thrown into it. So you're in shock. I would say everybody was in shock. It took a while.
[00:16:31] You want to try and get your life back on track. You want to get back to some normalcy in your life. So, and now you're being bombarded by the media. You know, they're just, you know, going batshit crazy about Osama bin Laden. You know, the official narrative is in high gear. So you believe all of that because, you know, you want to believe that. You don't want to believe that the government had, you know, anything to do with this.
[00:16:57] And, you know, in the meantime, you're trying to hold everything together and get your life back on track. You know, everybody's walking around. I was walking around like a zombie, you know, for the first year. We're going to wakes and funerals. So I would say, like, you know, like I told Lance, you know, like for the first year, I was pretty much staying drunk all the time, you know, just to deal with and cope. Because my friends, we would go to funerals of friends.
[00:17:26] Anyhow, it took a while for things to get dust to clear and everything to settle. It took years of getting things back on track. And then, you know, it was okay to talk about things. So after like 10 years or 12 years, you know, just seeing something that didn't make sense. And then things started, you know, you started thinking, wait a minute, that doesn't make sense. That doesn't make sense. And then you start looking into it. And that's how things got started.
[00:17:53] Lance, you find that the more something is denied, the more official it becomes, Lance. Yeah, of course, that's how operations work. You know, having worked as a government contractor, I know when it comes to, you know, that cognitive dissidence, you know, and the dissidence they want to create. They want to create a vacuum of information. So they flood the airwaves with what they want the narrative to be. And, of course, in intelligence, one of the things that they say is the best lies are the ones that are intertwined with sheds of truth.
[00:18:22] So even if you're trying to use it for your own identity, you want to have shreds of truth intertwined so you can remember the identity that you're presenting. In this case, it's what they did. There's shreds of truth in all the narratives that were propelled. Of course, right away they came out and here comes the Osama bin Laden. So what did they do? They compelled the American public with anger. Right. We're going to go get even. We're going to go after them. You know, they all came out and said, don't worry. They're going to pay the price.
[00:18:49] Nobody wants to believe that the American government will run these sort of operations against the American people. But let's face it, there's lots of declassified operations, Ocean Sea Spray, the Tuskegee experiments where they use syphilis. You've got Operation Paperclip. You've got the operation where they wanted to use CIA dressed as Cuban military to kill Americans in the state of Florida. There's so many operations that have been disclosed. And now for the first time ever, we've seen and not all the documents.
[00:19:18] Don't believe that the government has released all the documents concluding this JFK assassination. We know that the CIA participated in that. You know, if I was president, if I was Donald Trump, the day after the documents released, they said, by the way, we're going to go ahead and disband the CIA. It's not that we don't need a foreign intelligence organization, but can you really control a foreign intelligence organization that has so many black budgets, so many black operations?
[00:19:44] And they believe that they have a higher level of status than the president does, our own president. And the fact is, since they keep him out of most things, he's clueless. It proves that they do. Sad but true. That's why we need to rein in unconstitutional, criminalistic government, the biggest threat to America today. Greater than Al-Qaeda, John. Oh, of course. Well, Al-Qaeda is a pure creation of the Central Intelligence Agency.
[00:20:10] I mean, they create the Mujahideen to go after the Russians, you know, at the time. But we know the British, you know, in the 20s, they create the Muslim Brotherhood. Islamic fundamentalism is their new best friend, right? Since the end of the Cold War, in particular, they need an enemy, and they need the world to be an unstable and unsafe place, so that we'll believe, oh, yeah, absolutely, we need a defense budget.
[00:20:37] And the funny thing is, their whole storyline is blowback. We created the Mujahideen to go after the Russians, to bleed the bear, and then we turned around and walked away and left them with all this training and military supplies. I mean, back in the day, in the 70s and 80s. And they came back, and, you know, somehow or another, this guy, this bin Laden guy from this billionaire family that's friends with the Bushes, they're in construction services and oil services, and they, this guy decides that he now hates America.
[00:21:07] They went rogue. Yeah, he goes rogue. He goes rogue. And, you know, we created this monster. And so, and that's the story, because, you know, you're not going to believe anything else. So it's like, okay, but he went rogue. He's a monster. So now we have to go after him. But that only creates more enemies, because we're going around, you know, willing to go. Military industrial complex, we're at a trillion and a half dollars and increasing at an alarming rate. Yeah. Gentlemen, we're out of time. We're almost out of time. And I really want to let people know. I've got to go, Sam, as you know.
[00:21:37] I've got the other show to do. Talk to you soon. God bless you guys. This movie, folks, I want to really highlight this. It's not just a movie to watch. Yes, it is a movie to watch. And boy, will you learn. You'll learn what's really going on. John, you'll learn from people who were there first day with real testimony. Friends, loved ones lost, harmed to themselves, recovering. It's taken a long time for them to heal enough to speak out is what it's really all about. But this is a movement, ladies and gentlemen, is what I want to get across.
[00:22:06] Therespondersfilm.com. You've got to watch it. You've got to buy an extra copy so that you can have your congressman or a friend or anybody else watch it too, John. This is a movement. That's right. And we're asking people to please go to therespondersfilm.com. You can rent or buy 10 films for $20 to rent, $50 to buy, and send it to 10 people. You fill out their email addresses, and we'll send it out. Anyone you know who needs to see this. Of course, you can watch it on Amazon. You can watch it on all the other platforms.
[00:22:35] But we're asking people to please send this to people they know need to see it. This is the responders speaking for the first time. If anyone can turn the tide on this, it's the responders, the first responders. Their death, their martyrdom was used to take us to war. And now we're turning it around, and their sacrifice is going to take us to the truth. It's going to take us to finally shatter the CIA and other military industrial groups like that into a thousand pieces,
[00:23:03] as President Kennedy wanted to do, and scatter them to the winds. You can be a part of that as a real American patriot. You can send this film to 10 people who need to see it at the respondersfilm.com. Let's support our first responders in getting the truth out about what happened to them. Amen. Chris, Joya, I wanted you to have the last word, sir. What do you want to tell America? Thank you, Sam. I would say this to Americans. Keep an open mind.
[00:23:30] Use your brain and just see for yourself. Just keep an open mind. Don't believe everything you hear. And that's it. If you can, watch the movie and decide for yourself. I'm not going to tell you how to think. You do it yourself. That's the most important thing. Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, after 25 years, what gives us all hope that this film,
[00:23:58] therespondersfilm.com, can make a difference is, hey, the responders, the people that were there are telling the truth. The truth shall set us free, my fellow Americans. Chris, John, thank you so much. Keep up the good work. We want to have you back. Thanks so much, Chris. Really appreciate it. Thanks, both of you. Ladies and gentlemen, it's up to you now, too, to get involved, to make a difference. They need funding. They need support.
[00:24:26] And most importantly, they need everyone to watch this film, therespondersfilm.com. I'm Sam Bushman, ladies and gentlemen. Spread the word. We're everywhere. Donate today. Just start with a positive number and add zeros. That's how you donate. And God save our constitutional republic. Right on, Sam. Thank you.