Episode 66 Hour of Decision: The Fateful Election of 1912; Local Officials Need to Stand Up Against Tyranny

Speaker 0: Look around you. Wrong rules the land while waiting justice sleeps. I saw in the congress and crossing the country, campaigning with Ron Paul. Tyranny rising, unspeakable evil, manifesting, devils lying about our heritage who want to enslave and replace us. But we are Americans with a manifest destiny to bring the because this is the Hour of Decision. Speaker 1: Hour of Decision with Lou Moore starts now. Speaker 2: Welcome to Hour of Decision. My name is Lou Moore. In the second half of our show, we're gonna be talking to the author of the doctrine of the lesser magistrates, a proper response to tyrants and a repudiation of unlimited obedience to civil government. I think that's gonna be a pretty hot topic. That'll be in the second half of the show today. But in our first half hour, we're gonna talk about an election I referred to recently, and I referred to it as being rigged. That was the election of nineteen twelve. I'm I I didn't mean it was rigged by the use of mail in ballots, and they didn't have, Internet based, machines counting the ballots back in 1912. So what was I referring to? Well, I was referring to the fact that a candidate was introduced into the race that immediately tipped the race a certain direction. In 1912, the, progressive movement was going full steam. The Fabian movement was moving, moving assets and moving their ideas over from England to The United States. The intercollegiate socialist society was getting going on campuses all over America. Socialism was on the march. And then the large fortunes, that were accumulated during this period by people like the Rockefellers, by the Morgan company, by the Harrimans, by other, the others of these big financial combines. They were getting more and more interested in some of the ideas of progressivism, like the fact that experts should be running everything rather than these dull headed elected officials that they've been buying the last few election cycles. Maybe they could just take control of, some experts and have them run the country under the direction of our corporate masters. So that's the direction things were moving in 1912. But the president elected in nineteen o eight, a a rather jolly fellow by the name of William Howard Taft who weighed four hundred pounds. He was really fat, folks. I think he got stuck in a bathtub in the White House. He was the president of The United States and was pretty happy with how a lot of things were, unlike the powers that be. And so there was a panic in The United States in nineteen o seven, the panic of nineteen o seven. And as the legend has it, the country was saved by the, interdiction, by the, by the enter by the, movements of JP Rockefeller moving large amounts of gold, and, keeping The United States from bankruptcy. And, because this was allegedly the the case, a lot of people around JPMorgan and a lot of people had met in a very mysterious situation out at a duck blind on an island off the shore of Georgia at Jekyll Island. People representing Speaker 0: a good percentage of the wealth on the planet, Speaker 2: they were all, in the mode of giving United States a central bank that they would control that they would control the issue of the money and the money supply. And so they use the excuse of this fact that there was no central bank that could protect The United States from this panic in nineteen o seven, and the the, interdiction of JPMorgan, was necessary in order to save the day, so to speak. So in presidential politics, Theodore Roosevelt, Teddy Roosevelt, the legend himself, became president when president McKinley was shot in nineteen o one, then, Roosevelt won in nineteen o four, and, he made the reputation as a trust buster. But, really, he didn't do a whole lot of that. It was very friendly with the large financial interest, particularly with the Morgan financial interest, and, and particularly with a man by the name of George w Perkins who worked for JPMorgan. And mister Perkins' job, was to go into an industry, like, say, steel or electric, electricity or automobiles and basically take over the whole industry and turn it into a trust, what they what they call the trust. This is where we get General Motors. This is where we get US Steel. This is where we get General Electric. We're from the attempts of the Morgans with partners, other rich people in America, to take over whole industries. And this is the way they like the role. And Teddy Roosevelt, supposed to be the big trust buster, but, actually, he believed in kind of a Darwinian sense that these, entities, as long as they behave themselves, that they weren't too, detrimental to the people, that they should be allowed to continue. A lot of people don't know this about Teddy Roosevelt, but very clear, he felt that way. So he was actually pretty friendly to a lot of these Morgan forces. So Roosevelt was extremely charismatic and beloved, by the American people. He's on Mount Rushmore for crying out loud with Lincoln and Jefferson and Washington. Teddy Roosevelt's up there with them. And, but he decided and it was the custom, as I said in a recent s episode, precedents were not prevented from running for a third term, or in the case of Teddy Roosevelt, you know, from running for a second term after they served almost a full term because of the assassination of their predecessor, death of their predecessor, which is what he did. He served almost a full term until the nineteen o four election and then was elected in nineteen o four, beat one of the last free market democrats, Alton b Parker, Speaker 0: thrashed Speaker 2: him, to win that term. But in nineteen o eight, he he followed the cusp of it, did not run for reelection. So the party bosses put in this fellow, William Howard Taft. Now Taft was from Blue Blood American Stock. His father founded Skull and Bones at Yale University, and his son, one of his sons, was Robert Taft, mister Republican, who I talk about in some other episodes of our decision. He'll be pretty prominent in have pretty prominent role in American history down the road. But, anyway, we're right now at, nineteen o eight with a rumbling in the background of the progressive movement, the Fabians, the socialists, the planners, the social engineers just waiting to get their hands on that government to do a lot of wonderful things for all of us. So, Taft won in nineteen o eight. He beat William Jennings Bryan one more time. I won't get into all the arcana of these elections. I love to do it, but I won't. But he beat Bryan, a Democrat, and, was figured to be a shoo in again in 1912. The Republicans were very popular outside of the South. The Democrats had the solid South of, white, if I could call them that, white electoral votes coming out of the South. But, otherwise, they weren't too popular, back in the day. But, the powers that be had this meeting at Jekyll Island I mentioned, and they wanted a central bank. For The United States, it's kind of a basis of this new total government regime that they were gonna start to put together here in the good old US Of A. But, and there was a bill, the Aldridge bill, named after Nelson Aldridge, uncle of Nelson Aldridge Rockefeller, who was a United States Senator, who was also, he was in the family of the Rockefellers and in the pocket of the mortgage. So the two big poles of big business, he was right downtown in the center of them. And he had this bill, the Aldridge bill, to set up a central bank, but a lot of people said, we don't trust these rich people. We don't want them to have a central bank in control of our currency. We don't think that really is such a good idea. And so the Aldridge bill had been floundering, in the congress, and president Taft was not all that enthusiastic about it. He had a lot of support from, midsize manufacturers, midsize banks, particularly in the Midwest, who knew very well that this entity that they were talking about creating would put a lot more power in the hands of probably Europeans and for sure of New York bankers, which, of course, is what it did. And so they were very leery about this setup. And so, they were not very excited. So, Taft was from his base, his base not being a bunch of conservative constitutionalists that were against a central bank, but his base being a bunch of self interested, midsize and even large sized businesses, a lot of them coming out of the Midwest, and we're very excited about this. But the powers that be the powers that be with that we're gaining in power every day, you know, whether you're talking about in the newspapers of that time, whether you're talking about in real estate, whether you're talking about in the stock market, you know, wherever you were talking in America, the powers around the Rockefellers and the powers around the Morgans. And of course, when you talk about the Morgans, a lot of people believe the Morgan power the Morgan money came from England, from Morgan Greenfeld and company, and a lot of people believe Morgan Greenfeld and company was really just kind of a front for those Rothschilds. And so, you're not even talking about a mark as when you're talking about the Rothschilds, obviously. They and they controlled nearly every central bank in Europe, and they were in league with the Warburgs who controlled the Bank of Germany. And, one of them, Paul Warburg, was running around The United States, in league with the Rockefellers, with the Morgans, with the Rothschilds, with everybody to set up a central bank here in The United States. And so, they weren't happy about, about these signals that they were getting from Taft that he wasn't really, you know, if he won another term, he wasn't going to be all that strong for them and their big project. So, they were able to do something because of the situation, they were able to do something rather quickly that rigged the elections. What they were able to do was to bring Teddy Roosevelt out of Africa. Teddy had spent a lot of time running around Africa killing large animals after he was president. You know, he was independently wealthy, but he wasn't really playing the power game. He didn't really maintain a power base or anything like that. But the JPMorgan company maintained a power base, and they said George w Perkins, this man who I mentioned earlier, was involved with setting up a lot of these trusts and actually working working with Teddy Roosevelt even when Roosevelt was president, setting up some of these trusts and allowing them to survive like International Harvester, another example of a trust in the farm implement industry. George w Perkins tapped Teddy on the shoulder and said, mister president, you've gotta run one more time for your country. Let me tell you right now, this Taft, he's not getting the job done. He's just not very progressive. He's not looking at the future. He's not listening to these experts that we have that tell us that we need a central bank when we need it right away. And if we do need a central bank, we wanna be in control of it. And, so, and Tappan made some other noises about, well, if there is a central bank, the public needs to have more of a say in it. And this this was the position of most of the democrats at that time. They weren't that much opposed to this central bank, but they wanted it pretty much to be like a public utility, not a utility of the house of Morgan, the house of Rockefeller, the house of Warburg, and the house ultimately of Rothschild. And so, they convinced, a man named Muncie, a man named Dixon, George w Perkins, and other operatives of the house of Morgan convinced Teddy Roosevelt to run again for president on the progressive party. And the day he decided to do this, folks, with the kind of funding they were able to shower down on him, principally from the house of Morgan, election was over. He wasn't gonna win, but he easily was able to divide the Republican vote and, give the presidency to a rather mysterious professor for New Jersey, by the name of Woodrow Wilson. Woodrow Wilson, was not very charismatic, egghead type, professorial type. One of these guys who he took his class, but back in the day, He would give a lecture on the constitution and say, well, I think that constitution might be outmoded. We have people thinking sharp people today. They've come up with a lot of new ideas. We've gotta modernize. We've gotta update the constitution. This was the kind of the guy that, Wilson was, but he was also pretty slippery. He ran for governor of New Jersey in 1910, and and he ran against the political machine. First of all, of the Democrat party and then the big, republican political machine in the state of New Jersey, he won as a progressive governor, and then he crawls into bed with these people. He's working with them and turns New Jersey into a big power base for, guess what, his very, very ambitious desire to become, going from an egghead, uncharacter, charismatic professor to a governor of New Jersey to the president of The United States within two or three years. So Wilson, decided to run for president, and, he became friends with a very mysterious character by the name of Edward Mandel House. Edward Mandel House came out of Texas. Everybody called him colonel House, but he really wasn't a colonel. And, he had a lot of money, but it wasn't so much his own money. It was his contacts, which seemed to be everywhere, not just in The United States, but also in Europe, also rumored to be with those wicked Rothschilds. And, house when he was in Texas elected, I believe, three different governors of Texas. He was he was the man down in Texas, but he decided he wanted to be the man somewhere else. So he moved to Washington DC, and, he got into got in tight with the Roosevelt family. Later, he would be one of the first major financial supporters of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Him and, dare I say it, I always love to talk about the Kennedys, old Joe Kennedy. The two of them and six others were the principal donors that started Roosevelt's presidential career issue a few years later. But anyhow, we're not talking about Wilson. We're talking about the election of nineteen twelve. And, House, Mil Wilson meets House and says, this man is my alter ego. He's faced whatever whatever thought I have in my head, that's what he thinks. And we think exactly alike on everything. Of course, but then they they meet, and then the campaign started and House kinda disappears. He said and he has all this campaign experience, and, he's supposed to be now the alter ego of Woodrow Wilson. But House is off writing this book. This book, I'm sure I'm holding it up now for our video audience. Philip Drew, administrator. And Philip Drew, the hero, is a bureaucrat. The hero is a social planner who dreams of, a world, as it would be conceived of by Karl Marx. He says that socialism as dreamed of by Karl Marx. That's that's the goal of the hero of this book, Philip Drew, administrator. So this is what House is doing. He's finishing off this book, but he, he's not too worried about Wilson Wenning because remember now, Teddy Roosevelt has been brought in almost entirely with Morgan money, the same same flavor of money allegedly house had a lot of connections to. And it's over with for the Republicans. Wilson is going to win because, Teddy Roosevelt is so popular. So, house doesn't really get very involved in the campaign. Wilson does win. Taft Taft loses so badly. Taft loses so badly to Roosevelt and to Wilson that he only gets eight electoral votes. Four of them from Utah, I might say. He only gets late eight electoral votes. Teddy gets about 80, and Wilson gets the rest. And so even though the Democrats have only elected one president since the civil war, since before the civil war, they get Woodrow Wilson in the White House now, and the program starts that they want. And, principally, the program they get is the Federal Reserve. And, of course, I think I mentioned earlier, most of the democrats said, well, this Federal Reserve Bank, this central bank, well, we want the people to run this bank if we're gonna have that kind of a thing. And, that's how Wilson talked the entire campaign. But once he gets in office, colonel House talks him into the fact that, well, these bankers pretty smart. They kinda know what they're doing, you know, with the money supply. That's pretty complicated business. We better let the banks run this new central bank, which is basically what they do, folks. It's a hybrid, and it is partially a governmental entity. But the the New York banks pretty much run the Federal Reserve, and we won't get into all of that detail now. But this was why they rigged the election. This is why they brought Roosevelt in. And it wasn't just for this, but it was to pass the whole program. The income tax, also, I might add a plank of the communist manifesto as is establishing a central bank. They get rid of the, senators being elected by states, reducing the powers of states and increasing the power of big money who could buy senators from these various states who don't feel like they represent their state as much as represent a lot of these money interests. And then we're able, with Britain, somehow, to get into a war overseas after a ton of patriotic fervor is whipped up in this country for a war that we really have no interest in. America has no interest in this war. And Germany wasn't any more or less of a devilish, devilish colonial power than England was, but yet we got into this war. But yet that, ship, the Lusitania sank and, full of munitions. After we the Germans said, we're gonna sink that ship because it's not just a passenger ship, it's full of munitions going to the British, which it was. And all of this, all the machinations, and we're, involved with World War one. And then, of course, after that, Wilson comes up with the League of Nations, a precursor to the United Nations, the beginning of world government. Now our senators in America rejected it, but it was not rejected around the world. Anyway, all these things came about because the House of Morgan, the Rothschilds, these bankers got Teddy Roosevelt to run one more time for president in 1912. You are listening to the hour of decision. My name is Lou Moore. You can find out more about me and about my book, forerunner, the unlikely role of Ron Paul, by going to lewm,doubleo,re,.com. You can also see what we're keeping track of in that fight for election integrity. We haven't given up on that one, folks. We just had an episode about that. And you can go to securevote.news where we have a lot of resources for an election integrity warrior, a lot of information they can share with their friends, and the latest news from around the country related to the battle for election integrity. So, again, you're listening to Hour of Decision on Liberty News Radio. My name is Lou Moore, and I will be right back with the author of the doctrine of the lesser magistrates right after the news. Speaker 1: Against tyranny and corruption for Christ and constitution. The Hour of Decision with Lou Moore starts now. Speaker 2: Welcome back to Hour of Decision. My name is Lou Moore, and I'm really excited now to be able to introduce somebody who's written a book, folks, that I think is one of the most impactful books that is out there right now is particularly for activists who struggle with strategy, who struggle with what they should be believing as far as their faith and as far as being advocates for liberty in our country. The name of the book is the doctrine of the lesser magistrates, and the author who I'm most pleased to introduce to you right now is Matthew Trewella. Matthew, welcome to Hour of Decision. Speaker 1: Good to be with you, Lou. Thank you. So, Speaker 2: tell us about the doctrine of the lesser magistrates. I think many of us might not have heard that phrase before or not be familiar with it. Speaker 1: Yeah. Almost all people Speaker 2: never heard it before. Speaker 1: But what the doctrine is, your listeners will probably be familiar with the concept. The doctrine is simply this, that when the higher ranking civil authority makes unjust or immoral law policy or court opinion, the God given right and duty of the lesser ranking civil authority is not to obey and if necessary to actively resist the superior authority. That's the doctrine in a nutshell. It's found in the word of God and it's also seen to be natural demand, in the sense that natural to man, in the sense of, I use a quote from Trajan, Emperor Trajan, Roman Emperor Trajan. He was giving a sword to one of his subordinates. And upon giving him the sword, he said, use this sword against my enemies if I give righteous commands. But if I give unrighteous commands, use it against me. And that's the doctrine in a nutshell. And, so it's, you know, common to man. And at the same time, it's clearly found in the word of God. And I go through many passages of scripture, within the book itself, John Knox, who was one of the reformers there in Scotland wrote the foremost treatise on the doctrine of the lesser magistrate in his 1558 appellation to the nobles of Scotland. The nobles were the lesser magistrates of Knox's day. And he cites over 70 passages of scripture to show that it's sound in the word of God. So that's the doctrine in a nutshell. We call doctrine because it was, it is a Christian doctrine. First formalized by Christian men in Magdeburg, Germany in 1550. Hugely magnificent story there about the city of Magdeburg that defied the holy Roman emperor. It's a story of a city that defied an empire one, and they produced this document. The churchmen of that city did called the Magdeburg confession, where they show from scripture in history that their acistrates were right to tie the upper. So we use the word. So sure. We use the word magistrate or is it the call to doctrine, a lot for magistrate magistrate refers to any, person who possesses public authority, whether by election or or appointment. So it could include anyone from a policeman to the president. Speaker 2: Okay. So, I should probably back up a little bit, Matthew, and tell, let you tell, our audience a little bit about yourself. You are a pastor. Is that correct? Yes. And you have 11 children. God bless you, sir. And and your wife, Clara, you live with your wife, Clara, and all those children in the Milwaukee area. Is that correct? Speaker 1: Yeah. And we have 35 Grange Canal. Okay. 1 Grange Hill now. So the lord's bless us greatly. Absolutely. Speaker 2: Indeed. And and that's that is a wonderful thing. So, I'm I can kind of put the pieces together a little bit, but why don't you tell us why are you so interested in this doctrine and in this particular topic? What drove you to do the research that you've done in this particular area? Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I was watching, you know, the nation, our nation go down, down the dredges here for decades. And, I was always astounded first and foremost that when it came to the murder of the pre born, that face of bloodshed, you know, the Roe V. Wade opinion issued by the Supreme court that there wasn't one governor, one legislature, not one mayor, not one city council anywhere in America that simply said, no, no one will be murdered here. They all just blithely complied. And so that was something that was dear to my heart because the Lord had awakened me to the plight of the pre born way back in the late 1980s. I was involved in the, rescue movement at that time, late eighties, early nineties, where you would interpose at the doors of the death camp on behalf of the preborn. I did about fifteen months in jail, for interposing on their behalf. So that's really. Was the driving thing. I had a minister mentioned this doctrine of the lesser magistrate to me, way back in the early nineties. And immediately that struck true to my heart and mind. And you know how life is. We're busy. It wasn't until 02/2007 that I began to revisit that doctrine. And out of a prayer meeting that we were having at our congregation, the Lord really spoke to me that I needed to write a book about this, establish a website, and teach this doctrine to the people of America and to the magistrates of our nation. And so we first published the Magdeburg confession. We published the first English translation of that confession in 2012, And then we published my work in the year 2013 and the confession has sold about 40,000 copies. My book has sold over 150,000 copies has been translated to five other languages around the world. Thousands upon thousands have been sold in other languages too, on top of 150,000 plus here in America. And so it's really, been used, mightily of the Lord. And I think the reason people see the goodness of the doctrine is because it's found in the word of God. And when men realize that they no longer have the convenience of being indifferent Towards the unjust and immoral actions of their government. And they must take a stand. They want to make sure it's proper. They want to make sure it's legitimate and they see that, within the doctrine. So during the time when COVID happened and the, steel took place with the election, there was a large number of people. Oh, God. They weren't living in Mayberry. Dom realized they needed to do something. And the doctrine was instrumental in that regard. There were whole counties completely transformed whole school boards, completely transformed. From people who learned about these, learned about this doctrine and learned about these things and understood that a stand for freedom needed to be made. And it was definitely at the county level. And when you look at the history of our old nation, Lou, that is where things started at the county level. You look at the stamp act. Speaker 2: 10%. You are you are singing from the music sheet of this show week after week. I'm sorry. Go ahead. But Speaker 1: Oh, that is great. Yeah. Well, the stamp act, you know, hundreds of examples of interposition by county officials, in the various colonies at that time. And by the colonies themselves. But it started really at the county level. And so when the COVID took place and then the steel, once again, you saw men rushing into the, into county government to make a stand for freedom because they see saw what was happening. Not only was the federal government behaving like a beast that it's been for decades, but they were learning that most of their state officials love playing the tyrant to effect. What we really learned during that time was that power really does go to bed sets because we found plenty of petty tyrants at the county and local. Speaker 2: Mhmm. That's for sure. No. No. Absolutely. Well, you know, it it it is, I don't know if conundrum is the right term, but but you find out or you realize there's so many things going on around you, and you're trying to live a godly life, a Christian life, and you're also trying to be a good citizen. And for a lot of people and, an instant contradiction comes up, particularly a lot of the folks that live out in my part of the world. I live in Utah and there is a dominant culture here in Utah. And basically, the, you know, the mantra, if I I can use that term, the the, the application, of principle here is, you know, render under render unto Caesar and, you know, obey Caesar, you you know? Yeah. And that the that the warfare we fight or whatever is supposed to be just entirely spiritual, and it's not really to be fought on this plane. Even though, a lot of the same folks that talk about how the constitution was inspired by God and the founder, which I % believe, and I think most of my audience believes, that that the constitution was, inspired by God, that the founders were moved by God, protected, by our heavenly father. You know, the bulletproof George Washington is an example of that. And that that that that whole revolution was a godly exercise, if we can use that term. But yet we get to, 2025, and, there's a different attitude on the part of a lot of folks. And so that's why I think your book is so important because you kinda give a Christian, who who wants to do what's right, who wants to, follow the follow the inspiration of our heavenly father, give them a a pathway so that that they can understand the feelings that they have in their in their breast to preserve freedom and for freedom, but at the same time, do what God would have them do. So can you talk a little bit more about that? I'm calling it a pathway. You mentioned several scriptures. Can can you just talk about that area a little bit, Matthew? Speaker 1: Yeah. No. And you're right about that. That it does help the Christian see that, yeah, God's word does speak to every area of life, including matters of civil government. And I've stacked the letters from churchmen. You know, I'm a church, and I've been pastoring for thirty seven years. And to have that stack of letters is encouraging to the heart and who've written to me and basically said your book helped me to see for the first time in my life that my Christianity actually does have something to do with civil government matters. Cause that is the predominant view within American Christianity. This idea that we should have nothing to do with civil government other than vote, you know, we should pretty much stay away from that, is common thinking. In fact, if people go to our website, defytyrants, defytyrants.com, we have a little box on the homepage that switches out every few seconds. And the last box is called why pastors aren't involved. And in there, I have a few short articles on pietism and also, a lecture thirty five minutes long on pietism. So I'm talking about pietism as a movement that came about in the seventeenth century and essentially taught that, Christians shouldn't have anything to do with civil government matters. And, of course, the kings and rulers of that day. Speaker 2: Love this new form of shame. Speaker 1: See, we're wanting to get rid of the shit for speaking to that realm of life to begin with. So they gave the pietist positions of prominence within the universities and schools of their various nations. But that's really what we're dealing with. And Romans 13 is like a hallmark card for them to their false interpretation of it to convince people that they should just blithely sit in indifference towards evil being done by, civil authority. Speaker 2: So so so, I'm just gonna interrupt you real quick. So for for those of us who can't immediately cite, Romans 13 in any detail, tell us a little bit about what that says so people, recognize what you're speaking to. Speaker 1: Yeah. It's the passage that people point to to say, see, we're always to obey the civil authorities. You know, and it's not true. It's nowhere there. Does it say we're always to obey. In fact, there's not a scripture anywhere. The whole word of God that says we're always to obey the civil authorities. Rather what men are doing when they say that is imposing that upon the tax, we call that an act of ice. Jesus Isis, the Greek word for into it's where we read into scripture, something that's not there. We don't wanna do eisegesis. We don't wanna do exegesis. X is the Greek word for out, wanna draw out the original intended meeting. And, when you read Romans 13, the first seven verses there that are cited, You see that God has limited the civil authority and made clear what their duty is. And that's to reward those who do good and punish those that do evil. Well, what about when they begin to punish those who do good and reward those totally God given function. So at our website, defytyrants.com, my appendix, which is in the back of the book on Romans 13, which is 14 pages long. We put it so that it's available to everyone so they can share it on social media, share it through email, whatever. And I would encourage people to do that because, you know, pastors, Christian friends, family members, many hold to this false interpretation that we're always to obey. And that little 14 page exegetical piece on Romans 13 has really changed thousands upon thousands of people's view of Romans 13. And that's important. It's also of course, in the back of the book for people to read there. But I go through and I show three important proofs as why Romans 13 is not teaching unlimited obedience to the civil authorities. The first of course, is what I just mentioned that it's, it doesn't say it. You're imposing it on the text. Number two, of course, it goes against good biblical hermeneutics. Speaker 2: And you tell us what hermeneutics is. Speaker 1: Hermeneutics is proper biblical interpretation of scripture. Some call it the science and art to biblical interpretation and the hallmark of, good biblical interpretation is that scripture interprets scripture, scripture with the big S interprets scripture with the small S. In other words, when you're looking at a particular verse or passage, scripture with a small S, you have to look at it in light of the whole of God's word, scripture with a big S. So scripture with a big S interpret scripture with a small s. And when you look at the whole of God's word, it would totally contradict the assertion that's made regarding Romans 13 that we're always to obey. Because when we look at the whole God's word, we see many places where the people of God don't obey the civil authorities and God commends them for it. You know, you have, of course, the Hebrew midwives is a great example, where they were told to do something evil and they would not do it. And then you have Daniel who wasn't told to do something evil. He was told he couldn't do something good. He could pray and of course, obey God rather than man. And you know, even, Paul himself in, second Corinthians 11, he's the one who penned Romans 13, talked about how he knew that the governor wanted to arrest him. And instead of blithely submitting to the governor, he craftily fled in night down the side of a wall in a basket to escape his clutches. So this whole idea that we're always to obey the civil authorities is something that is simply not true. Again, I would point people to the appendix so that they can get a better understanding of that. Speaker 2: Sure. Well, we recently had as a guest on this show, Matt, a fellow by name of Sam Bushman, who's another Utahn. He's also the CEO of the constitutional peace, sheriff's and peace officers as association, the CSPOA. And I, immediately when I first heard about your book, I immediately thought about the constitutional sheriffs and, you know, as well as the founders. I mean, you can't have liberty and you can't defend liberty if you're not willing to, you know, as you say, speak truth to power or if you're not willing as a lesser magistrate to use your tablet terminology to challenge a greater magistrate, which the constitutional sheriffs have done all over the country. But do you wanna speak to that for a minute? Speaker 1: No. That's fantastic. You're absolutely right on that. In fact, the number one, I have a nice stack of letters from church from, magistrates around the country. I've actually been invited to speak to 11 different state legislatures on this doctrine. And, the number one group of magistrates that I have letters from are the sheriffs. And for those who are Christian, they say your book is the most support book I ever read after the Bible concerning my office and for the non Christian, they write to me and say, this is the most important book I've ever read concerning my office. Speaker 2: Wow. Wow. Speaker 1: Yeah. And they are a bulwark. Against evil. In fact, during COVID, we saw that we, documented over 500 acts of interposition around the country by lesser civil authorities. Most of them were county boards, sheriffs, mayors, villager, city councils. And, yeah. So Speaker 2: So so so can you define I'm sorry to to to cut in, again, Mary Matthew, but define interposition. Speaker 1: Sure. Interposition is a historic Christian doctrine where one stands in the gap. 22 would be a proof text regarding it, where there was evil in the land. God said he looked among the princes to find a man who would stand in the gap. The princes were the lesser magistrates of the day. None of them would stand in the gap against the evil the king was doing. And therefore God declared that he would bring his judgment upon the land. So understand it's that important. The interposition of lesser authorities is that important. It could actually abate the just judgment of God upon a nation. So interposition is where you stand in the gap between the oppressor and his intended victim. You can do it verbally or you can do it. Mhmm. And, that's that's just simply it. You stand in the gap and say no. This isn't gonna happen. Speaker 2: Wow. So, talking about standing in the gap and, another area that that I try to keep keep an eye on. A lot of us have seen, seen this topic playing out particularly during the Biden administration, but the idea of whistleblowers. And I was fascinated that on your website, which I highly recommend, defytyrants.com. Great website. I wasn't even aware of it till I prepped for the show. But, you talked about Garrett O'Boyle, who is an FBI whistleblower. Can you, speak to that a little bit? Speaker 1: Yeah. He was he blew the whistle on the FBI on a number of matters, one of which was that the FBI was using foreign terrorist, tactics in response to Americans who were simply showing up at school board meetings, to speak out against masking of their children and other things. And, he was very bothered by these things. Well, he knew the doctrine of the lust for magistrate had learned about it several years before. Read the book and, knew exactly, you know, what his duty was. And understand he's one of, I believe, only six whistleblowers during that whole ordeal. Speaker 2: Isn't that incredible? And isn't that an indictment and a half of that institution that is that's how many whistleblowers we're actually talking about? Speaker 1: Yeah. Understand there's over 30,000 people employed within the FBI. And here you have the overwhelming majority blithely did whatever they were told. Blithely complied with it all. And here's what people need to understand, Lou, is that a tyrant superior civil authority always counts on the blithe compliance of the lesser authorities or fall down in the society. That's how important your position of philosophy or magistrate is that they take a stand. And those men or women who do are very rare. Very rare. Speaker 2: Yeah. So we're about out of time here, Matthew. Where is the best place to get your book? I want everybody in this audience to read your book at their show mood. Speaker 1: Encourage people to go to our website and purchase it there. It's defytyrants.com because we throw in a few extra free Speaker 2: items. Okay. Speaker 1: But you can also, of course, get it on Amazon and other outlets there too. Speaker 2: Boo boo. Not just no. Matthew, I am so appreciative of you coming on today. And for folks in the Utah area, I would be remiss if I didn't tell you that next Wednesday, February at 06:30PM at the Spanish Fork City Library in Spanish Fork, Utah. Matthew is gonna be speaking on this very topic, so please go see him there. You've been listening to Hour of