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[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_12]: Hi, this is Matt Fitzgibbons from PatriotMusic.com, guest hosting the Ron Edwards American Experience.
[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_06]: The show, this is it.
[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_05]: And away we go.
[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Say A, say M, say E, say R, say I, say C, say A.
[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_10]: Ladies and gentlemen, it's the Ron Edwards American Experience talk show, where our unalienable rights are celebrated.
[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_10]: And now, your radio refreshment, Ron Edwards.
[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_12]: For joining the Ron Edwards American Experience, I'm Matt Fitzgibbons of PatriotMusic.com, guest hosting for Ron Edwards today.
[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_12]: Now, today we've got a really special show for you with a guest of an accomplished author by the name of Gretchen Waller.
[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_12]: And I hope I pronounced her name properly.
[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_12]: And today, I'll be speaking with her about her fascinating 2021 book entitled Born to Fight Lincoln and Trump.
[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_12]: That's correct.
[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_12]: 2021 entitled Born to Fight Lincoln and Trump.
[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_12]: But we'll get into that in probably about 10, 15 minutes.
[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_12]: And before we start, I just want to say that all of us here at the Ron Edwards American Experience,
[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_12]: our hearts and prayers go out to all of those affected by Hurricane Helene.
[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_12]: And we wish everyone in the path of Hurricane Milton well as well.
[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_12]: Please know that we're all thinking and praying for your safety and your rapid recovery from this nightmare.
[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_12]: Now, for those of you who are regular listeners to the show, you might be familiar with some of my music because Ron and Doug play it often.
[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_12]: But for those who don't know me, I'd just like to point out that I'm also a writer, a video maker, student of history and of political philosophy,
[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_12]: particularly the 18th century American Enlightenment and the American colonial period.
[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_12]: And I founded PatriotMusic.com back in 2005 after merging two passions.
[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_12]: One was for America's founding principles and the other for my love of writing original music.
[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_12]: A lot of it is rock.
[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_12]: Some of it is country.
[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_12]: My goal since then has been to inspire Americans to learn about, think about and talk about the simple but timeless ideas in our founding documents,
[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_12]: meaning the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and our Bill of Rights.
[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_12]: And if I pique your interest in some way today, I'd like to invite you to come to my website, PatriotMusic.com,
[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_12]: where you'll find my music, history, philosophy videos, articles, as well as how to reach me with any questions or comments.
[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_12]: Now, with that having been said, Ron always begins the show with an opening section.
[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_12]: And I had a wonderful opportunity this weekend to read Gretchen Wallert's book and was very much impressed with it.
[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_12]: So I wanted to start this show with a presentation of how I fit everything in her book historically as to what's occurring today.
[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_12]: For several years, I've had an opportunity to work where I've written articles and then have done, I don't even know how many interviews, hundreds of them.
[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_12]: And one of the most common ways that I was able to get on to many of these shows was that I would find something that was happening in current events,
[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_12]: and I would identify it with something that happened particularly in the 18th century in early America.
[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_12]: Write an article about the parallels.
[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_12]: And it always makes for a very interesting understanding of the current situation if you can relate it to something historical.
[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_12]: So with that in mind, I've been talking about America's founding principles since 2005.
[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_12]: And forgive me if this sounds a little bit self-centered, but this is a lot longer than most others in the industry have been doing this, at least in recent history.
[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_12]: And the reason I'm pointing this out is only one reason.
[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_12]: Over these more than two decades of doing this, I've encountered a lot of prejudice, blacklisting more times than I can count, and maybe even government targeting.
[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_12]: And I can get into some of the specifics on these things at some other point.
[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_12]: But just a couple of small examples.
[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_12]: For example, I had someone, one of the bigger songwriting contests, asked for video submissions.
[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_12]: They were going to have a new award that they were offering for videos accompanying an original song.
[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_12]: And it was weeks before.
[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_12]: So I submitted one that I'd written for nurses called Angels in White.
[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_12]: And this is totally nonpolitical, nonpartisan, has nothing to do with politics.
[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_12]: It just celebrates nurses and everything that they do for us.
[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_12]: And someone, I can't say who, was in charge of the marketing department at this songwriting contest.
[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_12]: And they contacted me and said that they thought that this was the most incredible music and video that they'd ever seen before.
[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_12]: And that they were actually going to feature it on the homepage, which they did for about three weeks before the contest for the videos was even completed.
[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_12]: But I got a phone call about two weeks, two and a half weeks or so after all of this from this person who told me that they were told if they didn't remove my video, they were going to lose their job.
[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_12]: And the reason was because of what I do with patriotmusic.com.
[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_12]: I've encountered this with executive producers, most recently with Google making me register as a, what is it called?
[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_12]: It's a special program that Google requires now with video makers.
[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_12]: If, for example, they think that you're talking about politics.
[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_12]: And I did a video, a short, which is two minutes long, about two months ago on the Supreme Court's recent case, the U.S. versus Trump,
[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_12]: and the presumed innocence of a president when dealing with lawsuits or accusations regarding their official presidential duties.
[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_12]: So this was simply a summary of a several hundred page Supreme Court case, which I did in a minute and 58 seconds.
[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_12]: Google instantly blocked all viewers on my channel.
[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_12]: They required me to register as a political contributor.
[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_12]: And so I've done nothing in the last month, a little bit longer.
[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_12]: And two days ago, I woke up and discovered that they had deleted my channel.
[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_12]: Two hours later, they sent me an email that said, upon further review, right, we've decided to reinstate your channel.
[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_12]: So my point is that much of what we're going to be talking about today has to do with a new movement in the United States
[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_12]: that targets those who support America's founding principles.
[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_12]: This is a campaign of subversion.
[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_12]: So throughout our history, we've had a lot of different problems and many different views.
[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_12]: You know, for example, in the early Republic, we had George Washington concerned about factions, what we now call political parties.
[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_12]: We had President John Adams.
[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_12]: The worst thing of his presidency was the signing and implementation of the Alien and Sedition Acts, which made it illegal to criticize the government.
[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_12]: We had other things throughout our history.
[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_12]: Slavery, for example, the anti-Chinese laws in California, corruption in places like Tammany Hall.
[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_12]: But what we're dealing with today isn't greed.
[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_12]: Americans skirted the Stamp Act and smuggled goods even before we were a republic.
[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_12]: Look, de Tocqueville's tour and book describing early America shows that as well.
[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_12]: Americans have always been greedy.
[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_12]: We're always greedy.
[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_12]: Everyone is greedy.
[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_12]: And to that point, I'd just like to read you an interesting little quote as a reminder.
[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_12]: And this comes from my favorite economist, Milton Friedman.
[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_12]: And he wrote,
[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_12]: Henry Ford didn't revolutionize the automobile industry that way.
[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_12]: In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from that kind of grinding poverty, you're talking about the only cases in recorded history are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade.
[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_12]: So with that, we're going to go into a break.
[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_12]: And shortly thereafter, we'll be bringing on our guest today, Mrs. Gretchen Wallert.
[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_12]: See you after the break.
[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_12]: Man, what's up, folks?
[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_09]: Stay tuned.
[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_09]: Be right back after these important messages.
[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_08]: The Ron Edwards American Experience.
[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_08]: A charter member of the emerging new mainstream media.
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[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_08]: Our unique hot air roasted coffee has a most delicious taste that everyone is raving about.
[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_08]: Because you want the best, Constitutional Grounds is the coffee you want in your cup.
[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_08]: Simply go to theronedwards.com and click on to the Constitutional Grounds coffee display to make your purchase.
[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_08]: And to be sure to use the RE10 promo code and you will receive a 10% discount.
[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_08]: Remember, Constitutional Grounds, the coffee you want in your cup.
[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_11]: Hi everybody, Adam here at Patriot Foods.
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[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm Donald J. Trump and I approve this message.
[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_13]: I am Kamala Harris.
[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_13]: Everyday prices are too high.
[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_13]: Food, rent, gas, back-to-school clothes.
[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_13]: That is called Bidonomics.
[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_13]: A loaf of bread costs 50% more today.
[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_13]: Ground beef is up almost 50%.
[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_13]: There's not much left at the end of the month.
[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_13]: Bidonomics is working.
[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_13]: The price of housing has gone up.
[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_13]: It feels so hard to just be able to get ahead.
[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_12]: And we are very proud of Bidonomics.
[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_12]: Hi, this is Matt Fitzgibbons of PatriotMusic.com.
[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_12]: If you share my passion for the simple but timeless principles that made our republic great and you like rock music, check out my five albums and videos on American history at PatriotMusic.com.
[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_02]: You say gun control is using both hands.
[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I've got to be free by the damn UN.
[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_08]: Feel free to join the conversation on the Ron Edwards American Experience hotline at 985-338-2891.
[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_08]: That's 985-338-2891.
[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_08]: Ron Edwards.
[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_01]: The new voice of America.
[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_07]: This is Gretchen Willard, author of Born to Fight Lincoln and Trump and The Magic and Mayhem of Donald Trump.
[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_07]: And you are listening to the Ron Edwards American Experience.
[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And welcome back to the Ron Edwards American Experience.
[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm your guest host, Matt Fitzgibbons.
[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_12]: And just to finish what I was saying there briefly, I just wanted to say that it isn't the philosophical differences that are inevitable in the steady progress that we've made as a republic toward these lofty ideals in our Declaration of Independence.
[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_12]: And it isn't greed.
[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_12]: It's two things.
[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_12]: One, in my opinion, it's a political class who, unlike our founding fathers, didn't just serve a term or two and then go back to their regular lives.
[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_12]: It's career politicians who view themselves as aristocrats, the financial and intellectual self-declared elite.
[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_12]: The second thing that it is is an ideological difference between those who support individual liberty and those who support collectivism.
[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_12]: We've seen a degradation of individual liberty, the massive expansion of government, the intentional dumbing down of our children in public schools, the radicalization of our college students, devaluation of our currency through nonstop money printing and the inflation it causes, transfer of wealth to a tiny protected elite who have connections with our and with foreign governments.
[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_12]: And I'm of the opinion that if you've got to draw a line somewhere, somewhere before Barack Obama and George W. Bush, somewhere before Jimmy Carter, somewhere before Lyndon Johnson and FDR and Woodrow Wilson, I personally think that that line begins at the end of the Civil War.
[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_12]: So I'm particularly excited to have, as our guest today, Gretchen Willard, who's the author of a very, very interesting book that I highly recommend you read called Born to Fight Lincoln and Trump.
[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_12]: Gretchen, thank you very much for coming on with us today.
[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_07]: My pleasure. I'm glad to be here.
[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm really happy to have had an opportunity to read your book as well from cover to cover. I was very much impressed with it.
[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_12]: It's an excellent read. I particularly like the way that you systematically broke the parallels down between Trump and Lincoln into components and then cited examples of each one.
[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_12]: But also, I felt like you left me, the reader, with a much clearer understanding of who both of them were.
[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_12]: And I'm curious, what was it that inspired you to write this book?
[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I tell you what, I have taught school children for years Abraham Lincoln and American history and thought I knew a lot about Abraham Lincoln.
[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_07]: It kind of all started in 2016. Donald Trump won with less than half the popular vote.
[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_07]: He came to the White House with a 10-year-old son.
[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_07]: He also came with a first lady who was immediately ostracized by the Washington elites and the mainstream media for her fashion sense, or rather, her fashion offense.
[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_07]: And I just started thinking, wait a minute. These are similarities.
[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_07]: And I know Abraham Lincoln had a 10-year-old son in the White House. He had several sons. His 10-year-old was Willie.
[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_07]: And his wife, I knew Mary Lincoln. She was really blasted by the press for just so many things, but especially for her fashion, especially during war times.
[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_07]: But those things, and Abraham Lincoln won with less than half the popular vote in 1860.
[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_07]: And I thought, wait a minute. Could there be more similarities?
[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_07]: And so I just, for three years, I took a deep dive, not only into Abraham Lincoln, which I learned so many amazing things about him, but also some kind of things that, wow, Lincoln was like that?
[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Because I think we have this image of a very sophisticated statesman, and that is not Abraham Lincoln at all.
[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_07]: We kind of have that idea, I think, because he was assassinated. A lot of the more cringeworthy things were swept under the rug and hidden.
[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_07]: But you dig down deep, and you learn a lot of things about Abraham Lincoln, and I loved it, because I learned the real man behind the myth.
[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_07]: And then Donald Trump, I dug deep into his past, and those things that we never see about Donald Trump.
[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's almost like Abraham Lincoln had this facade of the very sophisticated statesman, like I said, but down beneath, you see the ordinary man there.
[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_07]: And with Donald Trump, we actually see this boisterous, not a sophisticated statesman, not an ordinary person.
[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_07]: We see his showmanship, and we don't get to see that personal side to him.
[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_07]: But I dug down deep, and I found all of that, and 10 chapters, three years later, took me a year to write, and 10 chapters of similarities between the two.
[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_07]: From their upbringing to their religious, you know, their faith in God, their families, the workaholic nature of how they deal in business.
[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_07]: That they, both of them were actually self-made men.
[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Understanding that about Donald Trump is, you know, in that chapter, I really worked that.
[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_07]: He did not do what his father did.
[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_07]: He went beyond what his father did.
[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_07]: And, of course, Abraham Lincoln was raised on a farm.
[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_07]: You can really see the self-made man in that.
[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_07]: They were dirt poor, hardscrabble farm, and Abraham Lincoln came out of that, became a lawyer, and then, of course, president of the United States.
[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_07]: But so many, so many different similarities.
[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_07]: And getting it all put together.
[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_07]: And I keep coming across more similarities between the two.
[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Mainly because our nation, America today, is as divided as it was during the Civil War.
[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_07]: I believe 150 years later.
[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's incredible.
[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_12]: It's amazing to me to hear you say that.
[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm a firm believer in synchronicity.
[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_12]: And actually, I've got at least one question for each one of your chapters.
[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_12]: But if you don't mind, I kind of want to jump around a little bit because I have a feeling that we could probably do this for several hours.
[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_12]: And so I'm going to probably have to pick what I'm guessing are the most interesting questions.
[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_12]: But in 2005, after I released my first album, I went on a local cable show.
[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_12]: And it got quite a lot of viewers, actually.
[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_12]: But on it, I accidentally, I said, back in 2005, I said, I think America is more divided now than we have been since our Civil War.
[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_12]: And it's interesting because this is one of those instances where I said something that kind of crossed my lips without thinking about it.
[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_12]: And I noticed it later and then discovered that many, many people have been saying that.
[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_12]: And I think it's just getting worse and worse.
[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_12]: And I really like your book because these parallels are not obvious until you see them.
[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_12]: You know, like we say often, you don't know what you have until you lose it.
[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_12]: And I got the impression that that might have been the case with Abraham Lincoln's assassination until the country was left with Andrew Johnson, that we realized what a genius Lincoln was.
[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_12]: I say, you know, collectively as a country.
[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_12]: But because I don't want to forget this question.
[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_12]: How did you feel when three years after writing this book and publishing it to discover that the title of your book, right, Fighter, President and Trump, now, I should say Born to Fight, Lincoln and Trump.
[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_12]: That now, and we only have one minute.
[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_12]: So if you don't have time, don't worry.
[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_12]: You can continue this at the end of the break.
[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_12]: But what an incredible coincidence, isn't it, that you titled this book and then three years later, Trump is now synonymous with the word fight.
[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_07]: And that is interesting.
[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_07]: When the book came out in February of 2021, of course, what had just happened, January 6th.
[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_07]: And having the word fight on a book was literally absolutely the wrong thing to do when it first came out.
[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_07]: But Trump has turned all of that around.
[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_07]: And now fight, fight, fight, of course, is the iconic battle cry for a former president, now a candidate for presidency.
[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, he and Abraham Lincoln are the ultimate fighters for America.
[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_07]: And I talk about that in the book.
[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_07]: And that's, you're exactly right.
[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Fight.
[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_07]: They tried to completely cancel the word.
[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_07]: And now it is, it's been tripled.
[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Fight, fight, fight.
[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_07]: So, yeah, definitely.
[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_07]: But I saw that.
[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm really looking forward to continuing this conversation.
[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_12]: This is going to be great.
[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_12]: And I guess we'll be back in just a couple of minutes.
[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_12]: Stick with us, folks.
[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_12]: This is Matt Fitzgibbons from patriotmusic.com.
[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_12]: And you're listening to the Ron Edwards American Experience.
[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_08]: Constitutional Grounds, the hot air roasted coffee that produces a smoother, richer, healthier, and less acidic coffee.
[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_08]: Our unique hot air roasted coffee has a most delicious taste that everyone is raving about.
[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_08]: Because you want the best, Constitutional Grounds is the coffee you want in your cup.
[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_08]: Simply go to theronedwards.com and click on to the Constitutional Grounds coffee display to make your purchase.
[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_08]: And to be sure to use the RE10 promo code and you will receive a 10% discount.
[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_08]: Remember, Constitutional Grounds, the coffee you want in your cup.
[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_08]: Recently, I viewed a story presented on YouTube via MSNBC.
[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_08]: And it proved once again that either the dark stream media doesn't get it or they simply are hell-bent on promoting a false narrative or both.
[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_08]: Hello, I'm Ron Edwards.
[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_08]: On today's page from the Edwards Notebook brought to you by Constitutional Grounds Coffee.
[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_08]: Alex Wagner of MSNBC traveled to Saginaw, Michigan.
[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_08]: She mingled with and talked to real people, hardworking people who have real issues they deal with every single day.
[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_08]: But what MSNBC's Alex Wagner found was good folks who did not hang their hats nor base their entire lives on whether females could kill their little babies in every state of the union up to the point of birth.
[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_08]: The MSNBC host was utterly shocked that people in Michigan could disagree with the 24-7 drumbeat of abortion.
[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_08]: And you're racist if you don't want illegal entrants taking over your little town or chowing down on either Canadian geese in the local park or your kitty cat.
[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_08]: What they found were good regular people like you and I who simply want to live in a land of liberty where neither street or government cretins can harm us.
[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_08]: And the Constitution is the law of the land.
[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm Ron Edwards.
[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_08]: Join me on weekdays, 3 p.m. Eastern, 12 Pacific.
[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_08]: To find out where, simply go to TheRonEdwards.com.
[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_08]: The Ron Edwards American Experience.
[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_08]: The talk show that celebrates America and reminds everyone she's worth fighting for.
[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_08]: Join me, host Ron Edwards.
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[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_12]: This is Matt Fitzgibbons from PatriotMusic.com and you're listening to TheRon Edwards American Experience.
[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_14]: I am Kamala Harris.
[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_14]: My pronouns are she and her.
[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_14]: I am a woman sitting at the table wearing a blue suit.
[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Double, double, toil and trouble.
[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Fire burn and cold and bubble.
[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee.
[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_13]: A friend in need is a friend indeed.
[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_13]: And welcome back.
[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_12]: This is Matt Fitzgibbons from PatriotMusic.com, guest hosting for TheRon Edwards American Experience.
[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_12]: And today we're speaking with author Gretchen Willard on her 2021 book entitled Born to Fight Lincoln and Trump.
[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_12]: Again, Gretchen, thank you very much for joining us.
[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_12]: It's my pleasure.
[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_12]: Like I said, I read your book with a fine tooth comb.
[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_12]: It really was something that I couldn't put down.
[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_12]: And I think you were right in drawing parallels between the extreme ideological differences in the nation when both Lincoln and Trump won the presidency and obviously today.
[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_12]: And I kind of wanted to ask you a really deep dive question on this, if you don't mind.
[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_12]: I think you hit the mark spot on when you described the essence of the political divide in America at both the time of Lincoln and Trump.
[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_12]: And I'm going to paraphrase you.
[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_12]: So please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this.
[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_12]: But while you said that while the Southern Democrats demanded continued slavery of blacks under them, modern liberals demand a continued subservience of the citizenry on the state.
[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_12]: And I would add illegal aliens.
[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_12]: This modern philosophical divide is something that I've been talking about since 2005.
[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_12]: And in my view, all forms of collectivism ultimately deteriorate into aristocracies.
[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_12]: That's just what they do.
[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_12]: And as you pointed out in your book, Lincoln once said that if America ever came to ruin, it would be through internal influences and not a foreign nation.
[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_12]: Particularly in the 18th century, I have this sense, and I don't know if you had a chance to listen to the opening monologue.
[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_12]: I have a sense that the radical Republicans after Lincoln's assassination were no less aristocrats than what we see today.
[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_12]: And that it's evidenced by their actions.
[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_12]: And I'm curious what your thoughts are on my diving deeper into this parallel that you brought up so well in your book.
[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I tell you, any, and it's interesting during Abraham Lincoln's time, you know, Donald Trump, we're seeing now what we call the rhinos completely going against Donald Trump.
[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_07]: We have seen the Republican Party.
[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_07]: And, of course, Abraham Lincoln was the very first Republican president.
[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_07]: The party was brand new, years leading right up to 1860.
[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_07]: And it was an anti-slavery party, but it kind of replaced the Whigs.
[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_07]: But anyway, we see the Republicans, some of them going just completely against Donald Trump.
[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_07]: We saw that with Abraham Lincoln.
[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_07]: He was absolutely criticized and blasted by some of the Republicans of his day.
[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_07]: And he had to deal with all of that and try to fight a war.
[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Of course, it is the Democrats who have gone off the rails.
[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_07]: And in both instances, they wanted basically, I can simplify it, elites lording it over the masses.
[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Anybody who says the Democrat Party today is not the party of slavery, that there was somehow in the in the 60s, this big switch.
[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_07]: That is completely fake history.
[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_07]: There was no switch between the Republicans and the Democrats to where now the Republican Party is the party of elites and the Democrats are the party of the working man.
[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Of course, the big switch has happened only recently.
[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_07]: The Democrat Party is now the party of the elites, big business, big money.
[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_07]: But they still are the party of slavery.
[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_07]: They always want a slave class or a subservient class that just allows for them to continue in their aristocratic or totalitarian role.
[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_07]: And we see that.
[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_07]: And yet everything that they say is, well, if you interpret what the Democrats say, any Democratic leadership, it is exactly the opposite of what is true.
[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_07]: And they always accuse.
[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Of course, these are Alinsky tactics in which the Democrats want to deceive ordinary people so that they can remain in charge.
[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_07]: And we see the Republicans now.
[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_07]: We see the rhinos, the ones that are just that they don't get it either.
[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_07]: They don't understand that maybe they do and they just don't want.
[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Donald Trump is for ordinary people.
[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Abraham Lincoln said government of the people, by the people and for the people needs to remain an American foundation.
[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Of course, he said that in the Gettysburg Address.
[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Donald Trump is doing that same thing.
[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_07]: He wants to bring government back to the people.
[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_07]: We are the ones who are supposed to be in charge.
[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Abraham Lincoln dealt with that then.
[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_07]: The Southern Democrats wanted a certain kind of nation.
[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_07]: And when Lincoln was elected, they said, no, we are not going to have this guy as our president.
[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_07]: He's standing in the way of us having a slave nation across the entire United States.
[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_07]: And then Donald Trump stood up and said, no, we're not going to have the Democrats have their socialist nation that they want to have.
[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_07]: And so here there's another parallel between the two.
[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's just incredible how now the Republicans are fighting against some of them, against Donald Trump, which is interesting because I think a lot of people realize that the ones who are not for freedom and the people getting rid of the big government and taking back charge of the nation.
[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_07]: And they are, you know, I think most Republicans know that they are out.
[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Donald Trump has remade the Republican Party, the RNC and all of that.
[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think it attests to his brilliance in not just going, you know, like Teddy Roosevelt did and do a third party.
[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_07]: But Donald Trump knew, I'm going to take back this Republican Party.
[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_07]: We're going to turn it back into a party of the people.
[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_07]: And that's what he did.
[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah, Abraham Lincoln had to deal with the Republicans as well, fighting against some of the things that he knew had to be done.
[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_12]: Sometimes if I find myself having a conversation with a liberal, conversations like you and I are having can become lofty and kind of abstract and nebulous.
[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_12]: And it's difficult to kind of convince them of a point.
[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_12]: But I think this point that we're talking about, I reference this chapter 10 and chapter 11 in your book.
[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_12]: I think you actually make a really, really good hard world example of it in chapter four, which you entitled Common Man.
[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_12]: And in it, you point out how both Trump and Lincoln were completely comfortable with average men, whether it be just one-on-one or in large groups.
[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_12]: And both of their willingness to just sit down, meet with and speak with regular people.
[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_12]: And I can think of a handful of other examples.
[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_12]: Thomas Jefferson, for example, that's more my field of specialty is the 18th century.
[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_12]: But he was said to have answered the White House door himself wearing just a bathrobe.
[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_12]: Of course, bathrobe meaning more like a smoking jacket, you know, not what we would envision today.
[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_12]: That would be Clinton, I suppose.
[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_12]: Teddy Roosevelt, for example, you know, giving a stump speech for I think it was 90 minutes after he was shot with a bullet in him.
[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_12]: You know, continue to continuing to speak to regular people because he was a regular person.
[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_12]: He loved them.
[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_12]: And I'm curious.
[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_12]: Are there any other presidents that you can think of that came across as just regular guys?
[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_12]: Because I think this point that you made in Chapter 4 can also easily be tied into your Chapter 10 and 11 about them being common men willing to just sit down and speak with any constituent.
[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_12]: And it's an actual, real-world example that these two men that you wrote about, and I would add Jefferson and Roosevelt and Reagan maybe, being accessible to everybody.
[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, one thing about Donald Trump, and the more – he's hard to get to know because he does not like to talk about his personal life.
[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_07]: And he has said that.
[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_07]: We've got books about him.
[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_07]: We have other things about him.
[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_07]: In Diving Deep, it's mostly, you know, understanding that he has developed a facade.
[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_07]: He's developed this showmanship, this businessman way about him.
[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_07]: And he doesn't – he, on purpose, hides that personal side to him.
[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think it drives his campaign nuts.
[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Trump, if you would only just reveal these personal things about you and let people see it.
[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_07]: But he doesn't do that.
[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_12]: But people do see things, though, like, for example, you know, him flying – you mentioned this one example in the book.
[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_12]: Him – when a rabbi came to him and asked if he would fly a young child that needed emergency surgery on his private jet, he did that.
[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_12]: We know of a recent example, you know, where he appeared in the hospital to see a sick child.
[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_12]: I know of other cases, those of us – maybe not those who don't pay attention to the news, but we do see elements of it, but just not coming from past his lips.
[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_12]: And Doug is giving me the one-minute thing.
[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_07]: We do see those ordinary man – things that he does, the empathy, how he truly cares for ordinary people.
[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, he uses simple, plain language.
[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_07]: That was something with Lincoln.
[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Also, what comes out his mouth sometimes is really crude or crass, and, you know, that's a part of Donald Trump's mayhem.
[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_07]: But Abraham Lincoln really liked off-color jokes.
[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_07]: That's something that – you know, but he was always – he never knew a stranger.
[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Always was comfortable with ordinary people.
[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_12]: And yet another parallel.
[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_12]: And we will be right back with the Ron Edwards American Experience.
[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm your guest host, Matt Fitzgibbons from PatriotMusic.com.
[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_12]: Stick with us, folks.
[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_12]: This is Matt Fitzgibbons from PatriotMusic.com, and you're listening to the Ron Edwards American Experience.
[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_08]: We'll be right back.
[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_08]: We'll receive a 10% discount.
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[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_12]: Hi, this is Matt Fitzgibbons at PatriotMusic.com.
[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_12]: If you share my passion for the simple but timeless principles that made our republic great
[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_12]: and you like rock music, check out my five albums and videos on American history at PatriotMusic.com.
[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_02]: You say gun control is using both hands.
[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I've got to be free.
[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Wake up by the damn U.N.
[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_09]: I can tell you we need more like yours.
[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_08]: The Ron Edwards American Experience, a charter member of the emerging new mainstream media.
[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_09]: It's not the biggest, but your voices and actions are, so don't give up.
[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_12]: This is Matt Fitzgibbons from PatriotMusic.com, and you're listening to the Ron Edwards American Experience.
[00:44:40] [SPEAKER_06]: For its American Experience, I am your guest host, Matt Fitzgibbons from PatriotMusic.com.
[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_12]: And thanks, Doug, for playing some of my reels there.
[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_12]: That was one called No One to Blame.
[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_12]: And we are interviewing Gretchen Waller today, author of a fantastic book that I highly recommend that you read.
[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_12]: And Gretchen, as I suspected that you and I could easily do a two- or three-hour show,
[00:45:45] [SPEAKER_12]: I've got another question that I absolutely have to ask you.
[00:45:48] [SPEAKER_12]: But I also know that we're going to run out of time really, really quickly because it's going so fast.
[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_12]: So I want to give you an opportunity to plug your latest book and anything else that you're working on and where people can find out more about you and where they can order your books and everything else.
[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_12]: So please.
[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, yeah, I can talk about Abraham Lincoln and Donald Trump for hours.
[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_07]: And I always appreciate talking to a fellow historian, somebody who loves history, especially American history.
[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_07]: There are so many incredible commonalities between what America is going through right now and what it went through in the Civil War.
[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Of course, we have not come to blows in any type of physical.
[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, not in that two different armies fighting each other, but it is really beginning to come to blows.
[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_07]: And my newest book, The Magic and Mayhem of Donald Trump, it's actually a strategic excerpt of the first one with including some more recent information about Donald Trump.
[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_07]: So we've got the mainstream media and for how many years now, how incredible is it that we have an American politician who has been on the political scene for as many years as Donald Trump?
[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_07]: And he's not even a politician, but he has a score to settle and he has a score to settle for the American people.
[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_07]: The election here, I believe, is as critical as the one in 1860, even the one in 1864 in which Abraham Lincoln wasn't going to be reelected until right that September before the election.
[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_07]: The Union armies took the city of Atlanta and then the war turned and Abraham Lincoln was reelected.
[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Of course, he didn't have a full term.
[00:47:57] [SPEAKER_07]: He had actually a month in office because he was assassinated one month after his second inaugural address.
[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_07]: But Donald Trump is described in the media as the worst president in American history who should be locked up forever for high crimes against society.
[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_07]: And then there's another segment of America that believes Trump is is the savior of the nation and worthy of sainthood.
[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, there's there's this magic in the middle.
[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Donald Trump is to different people all of those things.
[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_07]: But if you really want to find out the real man behind the the what we see publicly and what he really is, that all of these these attributes that make a great president and a great leader.
[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Donald Trump has all of those virtues.
[00:49:20] [SPEAKER_07]: What he thinks, feels and believes and does is all the same thing.
[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_07]: And that's what Abraham Lincoln was, too.
[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely genuine.
[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_07]: But the magic and mayhem of Donald Trump is is the new book.
[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_07]: And you can just go on Amazon and get it.
[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_07]: But it is the reality that exists between those Donald Trump extremes and get to know the real man.
[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_07]: So it's it's it's it's a great book, too.
[00:49:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Born to fight Lincoln and Trump is available there.
[00:49:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Also, you can also go to my Web site, Gretchen Woollert, W.O.L.L.E.R.T. dot com and learn more than you have ever known about Abraham Lincoln,
[00:50:01] [SPEAKER_07]: as well as learning more about the man who hopefully will take back the White House in less than a month, be elected and then inaugurated in January.
[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Donald Trump.
[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_12]: I ordered one of your books and I highly recommend it to anyone who's even slightly interested in history.
[00:50:21] [SPEAKER_12]: And chances are, if you're listening to the show, then you are because that's where facts come from.
[00:50:27] [SPEAKER_12]: As they say, history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes.
[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_12]: We've got only a very short amount of time left, but I'm going to see if I can squeeze a quick question and a quick answer out of you.
[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_12]: You you added a quote in Chapter eight that said from Donald Trump, I use the media the way the media uses me to attract attention.
[00:50:48] [SPEAKER_12]: Once I have that attention, it's up to me to use it to my advantage.
[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_12]: I learned a long time ago that if you're not afraid to be outspoken, the media will write about you or beg you to come on their shows, unquote.
[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_12]: And I recognize this as virtually identical to the quote that we often attribute to P.T. Barnum, where he said, I know you already know what quote I'm about to say.
[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_12]: I don't care what the newspapers say about me as long as they spell my name right.
[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_12]: And I'm curious about something.
[00:51:17] [SPEAKER_12]: How did Lincoln do that, if it's possible to answer that in less than a minute?
[00:51:23] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, Abraham Lincoln absolutely knew how to play the media of the day.
[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Of course, there was no video.
[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_07]: There was no TV.
[00:51:31] [SPEAKER_07]: But the newspapers, he he you know, if if he could have tweeted, he would have Abraham Lincoln condensed to the best of his ability of letters to the newspaper.
[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_07]: He would write to Greeley and and it would be published.
[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_07]: And he knew that he had to help sway public opinion.
[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_07]: And he would he would write a letter.
[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_07]: It would be published in the newspaper.
[00:51:57] [SPEAKER_07]: And that, of course, is kind of along the same lines that Donald Trump knows how to use the media.
[00:52:03] [SPEAKER_07]: He uses it out there.
[00:52:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Abraham Lincoln never was too bothered by, you know, the media that was against him.
[00:52:10] [SPEAKER_07]: And there was a lot there.
[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_07]: There was Democrat media.
[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_07]: There was Republican media.
[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_07]: There was pro war.
[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_07]: There was anti war.
[00:52:16] [SPEAKER_07]: There was slavery and anti slavery.
[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_07]: But Lincoln used that and he used it masterfully as Donald Trump uses the media today.
[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_07]: He knows that getting out there, you know, it used to be it didn't matter if it was good or bad.
[00:52:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Donald Trump knows that, you know, I he is the most powerful and the most well known person in politics today.
[00:52:42] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think he understands that now he also understands that after two assassination attempts, he is and his purpose is to get back in that White House.
[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_07]: And so he understands that that great responsibility that he has.
[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_12]: And and the amount of vitriol that Lincoln, the amount of vitriol that Lincoln had to to deal with as well is an absolute parallel.
[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_12]: And there's no question. And on my mind, and I would remind everyone else out there, this is truly a turning point in American history.
[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_12]: And if you want to hire an attorney for something that really matters, some wrong or something like that, you don't want some nice guy.
[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_12]: You want somebody who's really nasty and perfect for the time.
[00:53:26] [SPEAKER_12]: I'm Matt Fitzgibbons.
[00:53:27] [SPEAKER_12]: This is the Ron Edwards American Experience.
[00:53:30] [SPEAKER_12]: And thank you very much, Gretchen, for joining us today.
[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_09]: That's all, folks.
[00:53:38] [SPEAKER_11]: Exit stage right.