[00:00:01] You're listening to the Liberty News Radio Network, and this is The Political Cesspool. The Political Cesspool, known across the South and worldwide as the South's foremost populist conservative radio program. And here to guide you through the murky waters of The Political Cesspool is your host, James Edwards.
[00:00:28] We got so excited with our guests in the first hour, we ran smack into the wall and just didn't even think about taking that break at the bottom of the hour. So when we got cut off in midstream, that's my fault. We weren't even paying attention to the bumper. I had my headset turned down. David Duke wanted two hours on this, and Mark does too. This is what everybody wants.
[00:00:53] Well, I mean, listen, we had to give Mark two hours last week and this week because these guys, and then we've got another one who is a government contractor who's going to be coming on who spent time in Iran. If you have people who are knowledgeable on global affairs who have actually spent time in the country, you've got to have them on. And Mark was so fantastic last week, got such a deluge of feedback from his appearance. We had to bring him back.
[00:01:18] So again, for the second consecutive week now, Mark Weber will continue to share his expert insight and analysis on the situation in Iran. During his appearance on the broadcast last week, of course, we made it known that Mark has made three trips to Iran. And during these visits, he delivered a lecture to hundreds of young Iranian university students, also spoke at a conference attended by government leaders, including the then country's president. Out of the two people that we have had talk here, David Duke and Mark Weber,
[00:01:48] compare them to any of the talking heads that you see on any other network. This is by far the most expert panel that we can find. Well, and they're always at the top of their game. Well, Mark, welcome back. You can't do a play-by-play of every comment and action that has been said or taken since last Saturday. This situation is evolving and changing and developing by the hour. Which developments? Tell us what we need to know. You have most interest you since we said goodbye to you last week.
[00:02:17] Well, one point that came up that you've talked about is one that's been in the news a great deal, and that is this talking point that we hear in a lot of the media that the people of Iran are just waiting to be liberated, that the people of Iran are suffering under the mullahs, as they put it,
[00:02:38] and that this is a good reason to overthrow the regime because the people of Iran are just desperate to be liberated by Israel or the United States or some combination. This is a very dangerous thing.
[00:03:09] This is a very dangerous thing. That's why the campaign that Israel launched is called Rising Lion, because that's the symbol of the old Shah's regime in Iran that was overthrown in 1979. Is this the lion with the sword that was on the flag of the government?
[00:03:36] And they've got the Shah's children and grandchildren all stirred up about this. I think they're going to march in and take over. Yes. Right. We've heard this before. Now, the question is, how popular is the regime? Do Iranians see the government as their government? And that's a question, of course, I wanted to know the answer to when I went there, and I had many conversations with people. Of course, you don't just ask somebody, do you like your government?
[00:04:01] That's not how the question – if you ask that question in Britain or the United States, you might get 90 percent of people saying, I don't like our government. But the way to ask it is another way. For example, we were told over and over that, oh, the women of Iran are furious because they have to cover their head. And in 2019, there were pictures, a lot of visuals of women who defiantly took covering off their head, off their hair, and some of them are arrested.
[00:04:30] And you heard a lot of it that people were very eager to get rid of that. And so one of the questions I ask people, ordinary people, I ask government people, I ask a lot of people, I said, if people had their own choice in Iran about whether women would cover their head or not, what percentage would do so? And I got more or less the same answer everywhere.
[00:04:54] People said that in Tehran, that is the capital, maybe 20 percent would not cover – excuse me, about 80 percent would not cover their head. But in most of Iran, they would still continue to do so. Now – and also when I was in Turkey. Turkey is a Muslim country too, but in that country there's no restrictions. But many people, many women in Turkey, even though there's not a requirement to do so, cover their head.
[00:05:23] They cover their hair. Some even cover their whole faces. Now, I didn't see anyone in Iran who has a burqa. That is, they cover their whole body. But it is required in Iran that people cover their head, although many women sort of stretch the law. Now, that's one thing. But that was a focus of much of the media. But that's not why people are so unhappy with the regime. The unhappiness with the regime is not for that reason.
[00:05:49] It's really much more because they see that the religious establishment has mishandled the economy. And I saw a lot of examples of that and a lot of complaints about that. The government of Iran, and especially the religious establishment, controls a very big chunk of the economy of the country. And that's bad.
[00:06:14] It's always bad when the people who run economic life are ideologues and not people who are there because of their skill and capability. And that's a big problem. Now, the government of Iran blames the economic problems of the country on the fact that there are sanctions. And that's true. There are sanctions and they hurt.
[00:06:33] But a bigger problem is that the government leaders are, especially at the highest level, chosen on the basis of their religious fervor, their loyalty to the Islamic side of the Islamic Republic, not on the basis of their ability. And that has bad consequences of the economy. That's a big complaint that many people have. And then there's a third complaint, too.
[00:06:59] The Islamic Republic, from the very beginning in 1979 to the present, is very firmly on the side of Palestinian freedom. They regard, and as do many Muslims around the world, it's a very bad thing that non-Muslims control the Holy Land, control Jerusalem.
[00:07:18] And the regime, especially the religious leaders, they regard it as just a horrible thing that secular Jews control the Holy Land, Jerusalem, and they want it liberated. Now, that's a big deal for many people, not just in Iran, but in any other countries. And so the Israeli government has shown over the years it's determined to bring down every regime in the region that doesn't play ball with Israel.
[00:07:47] And that's why they urged the United States to bring down the government of Iraq. That's why they... Was that the reason for the clean break memorandum, Mark, back in 95 with, you know, Ledeen and Fythe and... It's the clean break. They're talking about the clean... Probably the clean break memorandum. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I was talking about... Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's right.
[00:08:13] Now, also, I mean, in just a few months before the United States launched its invasion of Iraq in March of 2003, Benjamin Netanyahu testified to a U.S. congressional committee, and he said, and I'm quoting, if you take out Saddam's regime in Iraq, I guarantee you that it will have enormous positive reverberations on the region.
[00:08:40] And I think the people sitting right next door in Iran, young people and many others, will say the time of such regimes, of such death spots is gone. There's a new age. Well, Benjamin Netanyahu has his own reasons, of course, to encourage America to bring down the Iraq regime, not because he cares about the people of Iraq, but because he wants America to help destroy a regime that was in opposition to Israel. And the same thing. Netanyahu doesn't care about Iran.
[00:09:08] He doesn't care if the country just fades into complete chaos and disorder. Now, having all said all that, the mood in Iran – yeah, there's a lot of – I have one friend, for example. He went back – he was an Iranian. He lived in the United States. He went back to Iran after the revolution. He supported the revolution because he didn't like the Shah, for a lot of reasons we can get into. But now he's very anti-regime.
[00:09:33] For the main reasons I'm mentioning, it's mainly because he doesn't want a government that works well as what people want. They want a regime. They want a society where people are prosperous and so forth. That's a natural thing in every society. They don't want a theocracy. Are you saying that? Well, they take religion seriously in Iran. They don't want a theocracy necessarily, but they don't want a regime that is secular.
[00:09:59] They think the American idea of freedom, gay pride parades, are horrible. They are very opposed. I mean most of the world thinks that. Most Americans used to think such a thing would be terrible. They still do. They still do. Well, okay, but Iranians don't want this American idea of anything goes. They take their religion seriously the way Christians used to take their religion seriously.
[00:10:27] But they don't anymore. And so they – and what they want is something, a regime that not only works well, but it also upholds the interests of Iranians, not just as individuals, but as a people. Because Iranians are proud of who they are. That's one of the reasons the Shah would – Okay. Sorry, Mark. We've got to take a quick break. Mark Webber, the director of the Institute for Historical Review, for the second consecutive week back with us.
[00:10:57] We would be doing malpractice to not bring him back on. God tells us in Hebrews 10.25 that we should gather together to worship him. This isn't a request. It is a command. Going to church isn't an option. It is your Christian duty. With the hellish apostasy of mainstream churches, attending church these days can be difficult. That is why your King James only traditional services in the ancient church of St. Mary Magdalene are live online.
[00:11:25] And I invite you to gather with our congregation to study God's Holy Word. Join us every Sunday at thetemplarchurch.com And especially on the first Sunday of the month for Holy Communion. This do in remembrance of me is also a command that all Christians must obey. I am Reverend Jim Dowson, ordained Puritan minister, nationalist and a veteran pro-life campaigner. Tune in to my weekly sermons at thetemplarchurch.com
[00:11:53] Based in Ireland, this old-time religion is the faith that built America. God bless you. Do you treasure your liberty? Well, at LovingLiberty.net, we most certainly do. And we want to help protect your liberty too. Become part of the family. Everyone knows that the core of any society is the family. Therefore, the government should foster and protect the integrity of its family. We the people.
[00:12:19] Won't you join us as a Loving Liberty sponsor to help us promote the principles in the 5,000-year leap? Let's restore the miracle that changed the world. Hold at LovingLiberty.net. As you are aware, America is divided over every fault line possible. This is intentionally fostered by those who do not love God, family or country. We believe a peaceful future as a free people absolutely depends on civility.
[00:12:44] Clarion Call for Civility is looking for funding and volunteers at every level to make our hopes and efforts a reality. Please donate, sign our pledge, and help us in our sacred cause. Please visit CallForCivility.com for more details. CallForCivility.com
[00:13:10] So many emails and messages coming in for our guests so far tonight. Thank you so much for having Mark on again. Well, you're welcome. It's always an honor. That's why he's one of the most interviewed guests in the history of the program. But there is a development now, apparently, even since we've gone on the air tonight, within the last hour or so, apparently.
[00:13:38] And that is, what does Mark think of us just bombing their nuclear sites? This is insane. Trump about to make an address on it. Let me read Trump's post from Truth Social. We are live, and so this is coming to me in real time. Donald Trump, Mark, it reads, his post reads,
[00:13:59] We have completed our very successful attack on three nuclear sites in Iran, including Fordow, Natanz, and Isfana. All planes are now outside of Iranian airspace. A full payload of bombs, in all capital letters, was dropped on the primary site, Fordow. All planes are safely on their way home. Congratulations to our great American warriors. There is not another military in the world that could have done this. Now is the time for peace. Thank you for your attention on this matter.
[00:14:29] Well, Mark, so that definitely changes things even from the top of this hour. What do you make of it? Right. Well, this is, of course, a drastic expansion of the war. I mean, there's so many angles of it, but one of them is that Trump has once again broken his pledge. He has, he campaigned, and he got a tremendous amount of support from many people who believed him when he said he was going to stay out of foreign wars.
[00:14:56] In 2016, as everybody remembers, he got a lot of support. People like the fact that he called out Jeb Bush and the Bush administration of his brother for the Iraq war, which turned out to be a calamity. I mean, Iran will fight back. It will fight back. And one of the reasons Iran will not surrender is because they can't trust Trump anymore about anything. I mean, Trump has broken his own pledges.
[00:15:23] It's important to remember Israel carried out its attack, what, a week ago, Saturday, at the time that the United States was supposedly in negotiations with Iran. I mean, Iran, it was supposed the next day to meet again to continue these negotiations so that Iran would not guarantee it didn't have a nuclear, would not have a nuclear weapon.
[00:15:45] In fact, Iran had already made an agreement about that in 2015, an agreement that most of the world, almost the entire world except Israel endorsed, and an agreement by which Iran agreed to very intrusive international inspections. Trump tore up the agreement. I mean, Iranians say, well, is any agreement with Trump worth the paper it's printed on?
[00:16:11] And so the calculation of Iranian leaders, and this isn't just my opinion. It's an opinion of people who know a lot more about it than I do, is that Iran will just fight back and make this as costly for the United States as possible and for Israel as possible. Because they would think that if they even surrender, Trump says, unconditionally, the consequences of that could just continue to be even terrible.
[00:16:40] So it's not just a question of holding on to the regime. Iranians are thinking we have no choice but to double down and just continue fighting. One of the best commentators about the situation in Iran is an Iranian-American named Trita Parsi, and he writes for a responsible statecraft website. We put a lot of material.
[00:17:04] He's a very insightful person, and he made the point Iran will not surrender because they don't even believe that surrender will actually make anything better either for them or for their country or whatever. In other words, they don't trust Trump. And Trump himself has broken faith with his own base of support and pledges he's made to carry out this bombing that has just been announced. Well, Mark, let me ask you this.
[00:17:33] I guess it gets down to this. Is Trump a true believer in Israel, and Israel can do no wrong, or does he basically feel pressured into doing this and thinks he, practically speaking, has no other choice? What's your thought about that? Yeah, it's all speculative, but I'd love to hear Mark's answer. Keith, you put your finger on a question that I'm mystified myself.
[00:17:56] I mean, if Trump is not running for president again, you'd think he would be able to distance himself from a slavish support for Israel because he doesn't get anything out of it, really, in a sense. I mean, American Jews overwhelmingly still hate him and detest him. Israel just wants more support from the United States. There's no advantage.
[00:18:18] It's hard to see what his calculation is, why he's doing that, except that he might think, well, I'm going to go down to history as a great president because I'm going to be in charge of a war and we're victorious. But he should take a lesson not from Franklin Roosevelt or Lincoln. He should take a lesson from George Bush or Lyndon Johnson who presided over wars that went bad, and they were remembered for messing up everything, for screwing up everything.
[00:18:44] So your question – the question basically is how does the mind of Donald Trump work? And that is a mystery, I think, to almost everybody. And I mystified myself. I caught – A mystery wrapped in a conundrum. Well, I mean – Yeah. Well, I'm getting – in real time, I mean, just a flood of messages and emails. Trump is a damn fool. He just shut the door on the Republican Party. I was actually talking to my pastor about this a couple of days ago.
[00:19:12] I said there's just so many things to consider, the ramifications of what decision is going to be made. And even since we've been on the air tonight live, things have changed. They have changed by the hour. Now they have changed dramatically. And then, I mean, you look forward – so much to process and fathom, but you look forward now to the midterms and how this is going to play. Certainly going to probably, I think, Mark, fracture the MAGA contingency, the MAGA coalition, I should say. Coalition.
[00:19:44] I don't even know if we want to talk about how it's going to impact America politically going forward. Because right now, I mean, where does this go from here? Because it's not going to just be those three bombings and we're going to check out, I don't think. Well, of course. I mean, Iran still has some military capability and they will strike at American bases. Iran is surrounded by countries with U.S. bases, military bases.
[00:20:09] I mean, a joke in Iran is why did Iranians decide to put their – make their country in an area surrounded by U.S. military bases? I mean, they're all around. They're in Qatar. They're in Iraq. They're in Pakistan. They're in Saudi Arabia. And they'll all be targets for the Iranians. What do you predict? Did you predict they're going to basically start bombing Saudi Arabia and Qatar, that Iran will be doing that?
[00:20:34] Well, first of all, they'll target American embassies and bases as far as they can reach them. They're open targets, and legitimately so. The United States – and, you know, another thing, too, about this that has long-term consequences, this is entirely unconstitutional. He's going – Trump is going to war on his safe, though. Congress has not debated this. There's no mandate for this. Public opinion – They haven't done that in about 100 years, though, have they? It's been a while.
[00:21:04] But, no, Mark's point is invalid. That's true. We haven't declared war since 1942 formally. But Trump just sort of thinks it's all just up to him. He didn't even get a resolution from Congress on this. At least other presidents will go through some procedure of getting some sort of resolution. Trump hasn't even done that. He makes it sound like it's entirely up to him and him alone, not up to his cabinet, not up to –
[00:21:34] He's afraid he's going to wind up like JFK and RFK if he bugs him. Do you believe – I mean, do you think that's on the table, Mark? Do you think that actually it's that simple? Or was he always an agent? I mean, I will say this. You had a binary choice. Greg Johnson wrote a very good article at CounterCurrents. I believe it was entitled Israel, Iran, and my red line.
[00:21:59] And it probably – of anything that I've seen written, it probably most closely mirrors my position on this whole debate, even now, even still, with America now officially at war. You had a binary choice in November, Trump or Kamala Harris. And I don't think for a minute that the Jews couldn't have gotten or Israel couldn't have gotten this war if Kamala Harris had been elected. I don't think that for a second. I think we have gotten some things from Trump that we would not have gotten from her. This is a terrible thing, no doubt about it. But I'm still thankful that he's there.
[00:22:29] I don't think that this thing would have changed if she had been there because of the things we've gotten from him. But now, that said, do you think it's – The big problem in America's foreign policy is Israel. And it has been that way since 1913, basically. All right. Well, anyway, we're talking about a lot of things now. But go ahead, Mark. Well, no.
[00:22:50] It may very well be that Trump would have put – I mean, Netanyahu would have put the same pressure, and Biden might have – or Harris might have done the same thing. The problem is that Trump has raised expectations by his own words and his own behavior over the last years that he has said over and over, we're not going to do this. Now, one thing that's really changed, though – and this is a big difference from 10 years ago.
[00:23:17] Now, increasingly, Americans and the world realize Israel is a different country. It's not our country. Their interests are not our interests. What is – whatever we – whatever Netanyahu says, he's acting on behalf of his country and his people, not the American people.
[00:23:35] And the big change in mood, which is the Trump election is a manifestation of, is this strong feeling across the board, even people that aren't voting for him, that we've got so much – so many problems here in this country. The problems in our country are so great, the last thing we need is involvement in foreign wars anymore. We can't even afford them, for heaven's sakes. Well, that's George Washington's farewell address.
[00:24:03] He told us, you know, the surest way to lose our nation is foreign entanglements and fighting foreign wars. And it's just incredible because it was such a big pillar of Trump's ascension to the White House, the first time and the second time. You know, I'm going to make another point. I haven't heard any made this way. The big rivalry in the world right now isn't over Iran or even Russia. It's over our rivalry with China. China is speeding ahead. They stay out of these kind of wars.
[00:24:32] America, China just looks at all this and says, what kind of a country is it that's involved in all these wars? China will continue to buy oil from Iran because they've got a land round. We've got to take a break. We're going to come back with Mark Weber on this, IHR.org. I'm going to ask him about China when we come back. How would you like to help this program reach more people and earn silver at the same time? Call or text 801-669-2211 for complete details.
[00:25:00] News this hour from townhall.com. I'm Jason Walker. We've just learned in the last two to three minutes, President Trump announcing the United States military struck three sites, rather, in Iran, directly joining Israel's effort to decapitate the country's nuclear program in a risky gambit to weaken a longtime foe amid Tehran's threat of reprisals. It could spark a wider regional conflict.
[00:25:28] Mr. Trump posted on social media today saying, quote, we have completed our very successful attack on the three nuclear sites in Iran, including Fordow, Natanz, and Esfahan. He added all planes are now outside of Iran airspace. A full payload of bombs was dropped on the primary site. And he also adds, thankfully, all planes and personnel are now on their way home.
[00:25:57] Again, the United States striking three different sites today in Iran. Elsewhere, a federal judge ruling for Harvard University and against the Trump administration. His correspondent, Ken Lorman. The federal judge granted a preliminary injunction blocking the Trump administration's efforts to keep Harvard from hosting international students.
[00:26:21] The White House has been at odds with the Ivy League school for months after it rejected a series of government demands meant to address complaints that it has become too liberal and has tolerated anti-Jewish harassment. Trump officials cutting more than $2.6 billion in research grants, ending federal contracts, and threatened to revoke the school's tax-exempt status. It has been some rough 24 hours in parts of the northern United States.
[00:26:51] Three people are dead when a tornado touched down in North Dakota. More on these stories, townhall.com. Living with everyday pain is like having a voice that always says, no, no, you can't do that. You can't go there. You can't play your favorite sport. You better sit this one out. It's no way to live. If pain is affecting you, see how Relief Factor can help you get back to living life again. On your terms, one where you say yes a whole lot more, head over to ReliefFactor.com or give them a call at 800-4-RELIEF.
[00:27:20] Relief Factor is a daily supplement that fights pain naturally. Developed by a team of doctors and scientists, Relief Factor's unique formula of natural and natural health care, ingredients, doesn't just mask pain. It helps reduce or eliminate it for good. Whether it's your back, neck, your joints, your muscles, Relief Factor can help you as it has for so many others. Give Relief Factor's three-week quick start a try. It's only $19.95, a low-cost way for you to sort of take it out for a test drive. Less than a dollar a day. Go to ReliefFactor.com, ReliefFactor.com or call 800-4-RELIEF.
[00:27:49] That's 800, the number 4-RELIEF. See how you could live with less pain and you can say yes to more of everything you want with Relief Factor. Hey, y'all. Do you enjoy great-tasting coffee but are tired of supporting companies that hate you? If so, let me tell you about Above Time Coffee. Above Time Coffee is a privately owned and operated small business. They hand-roast coffee and ship it to customers throughout the United States and abroad.
[00:28:15] Above Time Coffee was launched because they saw a need for more pro-white businesses serving our people. The time has come to take our own side. And did I mention their coffee tastes great? It's the best coffee I've ever tasted. When James brought home a sample from a conference, I was hooked and threw out all the other brands. I think you will too after you make an order at AboveTimeCoffee.com. Living a healthy and active lifestyle is important to us. And I appreciate the effort Above Time Coffee invests in keeping its products organic.
[00:28:43] And there are so many flavors to choose from. Check it out for yourself by visiting AboveTimeCoffee.com. It's the only coffee we drink at the Edwards Home. Delicious Coffee. A company that serves the interests of our people. Check out their selection today at AboveTimeCoffee.com. The Occidental Quarterly is a journal for people who dare to think for themselves and refuse to accept the current liberal orthodoxies and media-fueled delusions.
[00:29:08] Edited by Dr. Kevin MacDonald, TOQ fearlessly discusses race, culture, the future of the Western world, and other subjects that our enemies consider taboo and want to outlaw. TOQ writers give no quarter to political correctness or other modern methods of suppression. Four times a year, right to your mailbox, TOQ delivers thoughtful analysis and commentary on current events, new perspectives on history, interviews, reviews of important books, and so much more.
[00:29:35] Do you have the courage to subscribe to the next four issues of TOQ for just $60 per year? If so, you can subscribe today by visiting www.toqonline.com. You might be surprised how much you already agree with our fearless contributors. Subscribe to the Occidental Quarterly, edited by Kevin MacDonald, today at www.toqonline.com.
[00:30:09] Just a lot of conversation during that five-minute bottom-of-the-hour break between your humble servant, Keith Alexander, and Mark Weber. Mark, I mean, we talk about things changing by the day or even by the hour, but I mean, in this case, literally by the hour, from the first hour to the second. Here we are, America officially at war. I would just ask you this, I mean, a very quick answer on this. Do you believe that this could have happened or would have happened either way the election played out in November?
[00:30:37] We touched on that a moment ago. There's stronger opposition to getting into a war and stronger opposition to Israel within the Democratic Party than the Republican Party. I mean, Trump has always said he's 1,000 percent for Israel. And so within the Democratic Party, I think they would have probably not done what Trump has just done. Well, I mean, look, I mean, the Democratic base would have been against it, but so too.
[00:31:07] Yeah, 80 percent. I mean, the MAGA base is against it, too. By and large, the MAGA base is against at least boots on the ground. He said, damn, the torpedoes full of speed ahead. All right. But I mean, but at this point, Mark, do you believe, and I asked this question to the first-hour guests as well, should Russia or Pakistan say, all right, guys, knock it off. Iran is now protected under our nuclear umbrella? No, no, they won't do that. No, no, they'll let Iran go. I mean, it's not crucial to their interests.
[00:31:35] Russia is happy that attention has been diverted from the Russia-Ukraine war. They are supportive of – it's the same way Iran abandoned the Assad regime in Syria. Countries will do that. If a country is weak and it requires their support to stay in place, they won't support it. The United States is an exception. It supports Israel even though without U.S. support, Israel would fall down.
[00:32:03] I mean, that's the bizarre thing. It's not an ally in the normal sense. This is really part of a larger discussion that's been going on now, especially in the last few years, about what's in it for the United States or the world to support Israel. That's really a larger debate that's taking place. And polls show increasingly, especially among younger people, there's less and less sympathy for Israel. And indeed, I mean, we mentioned this before.
[00:32:30] One poll showed a majority of young Republicans are in favor of an arms embargo against Israel. People just ask themselves, what's in it for us? What's in it for America? I mean, why are we supporting Israel? Now, there's nobody in the Democratic side like Mike Huckabee. He's Trump's ambassador to Israel. He thinks, bring on World War III. He thinks that's just dandy because that'll hasten the day when the whole world goes up a nuclear holocaust and Jesus comes back.
[00:32:59] Well, there's nobody in the Democratic Party of any stature, but that's Donald Trump's ambassador to Israel. This is – I mean, to make foreign policy on the basis that what we're aiming for is a worldwide holocaust and World War III is just crazy. I mean, it's unbelievable. So you don't find that within the Democratic Party. You won't find that even within a kind of sensible Republican Party. Trump – it's hard to know.
[00:33:27] Trump is probably making a big miscalculation, or his calculation is probably we'll just bomb this. That's all we need to do. The Iranian government will have to surrender, and it will all be over. What do you think the next step will be then, Mark? If, you know, we bombed it, he thinks that's going to do it. What's the next step really going to be? Presumably Iran is going to bomb or send some missiles towards – U.S. bases. That's right.
[00:33:54] And Arab allies and the Arab allies, what are they going to do? And then from there it's – Well, okay, there's a couple of things to keep in mind. First of all, Israel and the United States, but Israel alone has more military power than Iran. Iran's military power is much more limited. Iran has no navy to speak of. Israel does. Israel has even nuclear-powered submarines supplied by Germany.
[00:34:20] Iran has no air force to speak of, and Israel does. Israel's air force is supplied by the very latest American jet planes. Iran doesn't have anything like that. Iran has missiles, but they'll run out of them. And their missiles are also not as effective because – Well, they're obsolete. They're two generations back.
[00:34:45] Well, and also Israel has a very good defense system, too, and a much better one than Iran does. They have a better civil defense network and so forth. It's a more developed country than Iran. Iran is a very large country, larger than France and Germany combined, a population of some 90 million. I mean it's hard to defend the whole thing, and everybody knows that. But anyway, the point is Trump is probably calculating that he can knock out these nuclear reactors.
[00:35:14] Although, you know, by the way, that's a tremendous – that's illegal or dangerous when you start bombing nuclear reactors, by the way. It's a very dangerous thing. Do you think? Well, it's all that. It's also a nothing burger because they're not developing a nuclear weapon now. That's what Tulsi Gabbard said. That's what others said. No, no, I agree with that, but it's still a dangerous thing to do.
[00:35:38] I mean – okay, but the point is here that probably the calculation by Trump is that he can drop these bombs. This will knock out their nuclear program, peaceful or whatever, and that then the Iranian government will have to basically surrender at some point very soon. That's his calculation. In other words, he's hoping the war will be over soon. We've heard that throughout history. Everybody thought the civil war would be over.
[00:36:06] With Vietnam or civil American civil war, First World War, everybody thinks these wars will happen very quickly, and they miscalculate. Now, even if the war, though, ends soon, there's no plan and even a prospect of actually occupying Iran. The regime will be back, and the mood among many Iranians is now, well, we should have nuclear weapons. Now they're saying that's the one thing that we should have.
[00:36:33] If Iran wanted to build nuclear weapons, they would have had them a long time ago. Tulsi Gabbard was right, and American intelligence was right. Israel – I mean, Iran does not have or had not had until an active nuclear weapons program. But that's another issue. But now the lesson seems to be if you want to make sure you don't attack, make sure you do have nuclear weapons, which is what Israel has.
[00:37:01] But even after a lot of people are dying, after a lot of destruction, there will still be a government in Iran, and it will not be happy about either Israel or the United States. And much of the world will draw that lesson, too. And increasingly, again, the horrible treatment that Israel is carrying out against the Palestinian population hasn't been forgotten by much of the world.
[00:37:28] The other week, Netanyahu complained because an Iranian missile hit a hospital, one hospital in Israel. Well, that's bad. Okay, Israel has knocked out every hospital in Gaza. I mean, and the death toll is far, far, far greater, tens of thousands of people. But the American media seems to think, well, that's kind of too bad, I guess, and whatever.
[00:37:52] But, again, the hatred around the world has grown in the last two years against Israel. Because its readiness to act in an extraordinarily brutal way is obvious to everyone. Remember, the prime minister of Israel has an international arrest warrant against him as a war criminal. That was something I wanted to bring up, Mark. What is the chance of regime change in Israel because of this?
[00:38:22] Is there any way Israel can lose this? Well, in the short run, they will win. I mean, they're using their military power in a very organized way. Remember, Netanyahu has been calling for an attack against Iran for 20 years. He said this even back in 2002 to the same congressional committee. He wants the removal of any regime which is strongly supporting Palestine.
[00:38:50] And the Israeli government, on a very basic level, believes that support for Palestinian rights is fundamental. Now, most Iranians don't care about it as much, certainly, as the leaders, because they believe this is part of their devotion to justice and religion as they see it. This is a very important thing. I mean, it is for a lot of people around the world.
[00:39:15] They see what Israel is doing as genocidal, oppressive, bad, wrong, whatever you want to call it. And Iran takes that, at least the government of Iran, takes that very seriously. Like most people, most Iranians, yeah, they support Palestinians, but they don't want to go to war over it. That's the mood in many countries, even in countries that are very sympathetic with the Palestinians. They're not willing to really go to war over the issue.
[00:39:43] But anyway, so probably that's Trump's calculation. He can carry out these bombing, and they'll be able to contain whatever the pushback is from Iran. Does he think he's going to be able to just limit himself to dropping bombs on Iran? Right, right. All right, yeah, there we go. Well, he's calculating, I think, that he can contain whatever retaliatory measures the Iranian government carries out
[00:40:11] against American military bases and American ships in the area. That's what he's calculating. Now, we'll see. Again, it depends, again, what the military capability of Iran is going to be in the next week or two. But it's a dangerous widening of the war. And most of the world, of course, thinks this is very bad. And I think you'll find increasingly, like so many other wars, American opinion will also turn against it.
[00:40:41] All right. So much. You know, what a great job by Mark Webber. IHR.org, Mark Webber to be so nimble as to adjust as these things. You couldn't be. We had David Duke in the first hour and Mark Webber on the second. I mean, things are changing fundamentally in real time. We'll be right back. It is common for politicians, major media outlets, and nonprofits to hype white on black murders aggressively or even claim that blacks are living in fear of white people.
[00:41:12] Lends for simply being black. Hard to believe, but that's what was done. And some people still want to do that. This is why National Conservative launched the Interracial Homicide Tracking Project. We have now documented well over 2,000 confirmed interracial homicides since January 2023 and created the most comprehensive overview of these killings anyone has ever made. We plug the gaping holes in data left by other homicide trackers and government crime stats.
[00:41:41] Rather than engaging in hyperbole and vitriolic rhetoric like everyone else, we are simply creating a massive sample size of empirical evidence so people can form rational and informed opinions about a sensitive and politically charged issue. Visit natcon.life. N-A-T-C-O-N dot L-I-F-E I really don't want to talk about this, but I will. I'm just so mad. I didn't get asked to the junior prom and it's raining, which means by the time I get to school, I'm soaking wet.
[00:42:09] Dad picked me up just after I left and I was so mad. I got out and he said, Wait, your mom said to give you this. I forgot my lunch money. And then I dropped it in the water and I was late for history. And so at lunchtime I had to find something on John Stuart Mill, which of course our library didn't have. So I had to walk all the way down to the office to call my mom and she found something on the internet and called me back. And Karen, she wouldn't even help me and that's a whole nother story. But dad helped me conjugate nouns or whatever on the way to the swim team workout. And then he read my history paper while I was in the pool. And of course I forgot the bibliography. So I had to do that with my mother when I got home.
[00:42:37] And it made me totally forget that I put my jeans in the washer that morning. And I hate it when they sit wet like that all day and smell like mildew. But my mom said she put them in the dryer while I was at the swim team. And you know, I'm just not going to go to the prom. No matter who asks me, I just want to stay home with my mom and dad. Family. And just hang out. Isn't it about time? Unless Dustin asked me. From the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
[00:43:08] As you know, as you know, over the course of the last 21 years, Mark Weber, one of the most regularly interviewed guests on this program, every time he comes on he reminds you of exactly why that is. But I will remind you now that Mark is, of course, an accomplished historian lecturer, current affairs analyst and author. He was educated in the United States and in Europe. And he holds a master's degree in modern European history.
[00:43:35] Back with us now for the second consecutive week to talk about this ever-evolving conflict. And boy, has it evolved since we started this show. It's metastasized. Tonight. Mark, I am thankful, though. I want to tell you, my friend, I'm thankful for your measured and composed analysis. Exactly. Exactly. Because there is so much reactionary analysis out there and overcorrective analysis out there and hysterical analysis out there.
[00:44:05] What we bring to you on here now is composed and measured with our guests last week, this week, next week, two weeks from now. And as this thing continues. But Mark, I want to. And by the way, next week, we will have Greg Johnson on. He wrote an article at Countercurrents Israel, Iran and my thin my red line. And that is something that I think mirrors my take on this.
[00:44:30] Even now, even as things have developed since this program began, Kevin McDonald will be on next week. Virginia Abernathy will be on next week. So you see the kind of people we're bringing on, the heavy hitters to help talk us through this thing. But Mark, I want to get to this question from a friend of ours in Illinois. I think we need to still get to that, even though things are changing so rapidly, even during this very discussion. But first, let's talk about boots on the ground.
[00:44:58] If it goes to that, the geography of Iran, you've been there. It is bordered on three or four sides by rugged mountains. You've got two impenetrable deserts. Boots on the ground is going to be a pretty tall order for anyone, including the United States. Do you see it going to that level? And could it even be feasible? Trump himself has said there's no boots on the ground. That would be very foolish. He's lied before.
[00:45:28] Yeah, he's lied before. Okay. But no, but seriously, I don't think that's even an option. Look, Iran and Iraq fought a war for eight years, from 1980 to 1988. Most estimates say that a million people died in that war. During that war, poison gas was used by Iraq, not by Iran. Missiles were fired on each country's cities. It was a terrible, terrible conflict. And Iran held it, held together.
[00:45:58] Very good. And if there's an, if Iranians feel there's a, excuse me, if Iranians feel, oh gosh. Take your time. I've got to get us some water. A COVID outbreak. There won't be any cakewalk. It won't be like Iraq. Iraq is a smaller country, and it's a flat country. Iran is a mountainous country.
[00:46:28] And Iranians are a much more solid people than Iraq. Iraq is an artificial country created by the British and French. The lines were drawn by them. Iranians will fight. They're very, they have a very strong independence streak. They're even more independent or more determined, I think, than Afghanistan. And we had a war. The United States was in Afghanistan 20 years to try to subdue that country until finally the United States left.
[00:46:57] I mean, the tragedy is it will, many people will die. It will be a very terrible thing. And I, of course, I'm opposed to that. And the consequence, at the end of it all, Americans will ask themselves in the years to come, what was this all for? What were we doing? And each president can justify at the time, give reasons why he's attacking this country or that country.
[00:47:23] But it's important to try to look at all of these conflicts, whether it's in Iran or South Vietnam or Iraq, in larger historical terms. And in other words, look at it the way China would look at it or the way the United States used to look at things. For much of, for the first century and a half of our history, the prevailing guiding principle was to stay out of foreign conflicts.
[00:47:49] But ever since then, the United States has been involved, and now even the Trump administration, which pledged not to do so, in these conflicts around the world. These are not our conflicts. We didn't create them, and we shouldn't be responsible for them. And that should be, I think, the big takeaway from this. Mark, I got to get to this question that came in last week when you were on, and I promised the person who sent it that I would ask you of this. I actually even sent it to you in advance, in advance, not knowing that things would change the very hour you're on.
[00:48:18] But I would like to ask you this, and the listener from Illinois writes, greetings, James. When you have Mark Webber back on tonight, it would be nice to hear him answer a question about the Iranian people in more detail. Do they largely support the current political religious regime, or is the country highly divided? Do they fervently support the supreme leader and all of his rants, or do they yearn for change? Some would have us believe that they want to rid themselves of the current political religious
[00:48:46] regime, not by being bombed, of course, and actually want peace with the rest and or Israel. Others insist that they are all rabid, bomb-throwing, foaming-at-the-mouth sycophants of the current regime, and would die to the last man defending it. It would be nice to hear Mark Webber's viewpoint about this, given the fact that he has the unique perspective of having visited there several times. Mark, I toss that question to you. Well, I tried to deal with that a little bit earlier.
[00:49:13] I mean, I talk to many people to understand what they do think about the regime. Do they regard it as their government? Will they defend it if there's a war? The answer is yes, although there's a lot of opposition to the regime. And most Iranian—you have to remember, as I said, in 1979, when the opposition to the Shah reached a high point, the opposition coalesced around Ayatollah Khomeini.
[00:49:40] And he was—because he was such a fervent, principled opponent of the Shah, when he returned, there was enormous outpouring of support for him. Well, Ayatollah Khomeini is not really an Iranian patriot. He's a religious man. He thinks Islam is far more important than Iran. Most Iranians have a devotion, first and foremost, to their country.
[00:50:05] Now, it's unusual because Iran is a Shia country, and the Ayatollah is also both a religious leader and a kind of national leader, too. I mean, I don't want to overstate the case. But anyway, the point is they agreed to—I mean, there was a national referendum. They voted for the Constitution. But it's a—but they will defend, even if there's a new government, they're not going
[00:50:32] to be told what to do by Israel or the United States. Iranians, especially, have learned through sad experience that the United States can't be trusted. The U.S. CIA, along with the British, overthrew a democratic government in 1953. During World War II, the United States supported the invasion and occupation of Iran by the Soviet Union and Britain. I mean, the United States, during the Shah, treated the Shah with a kind of puppet of the United States.
[00:51:01] All of those are reasons why Iranians will not be happy about some government that the United States backs in the region. Well, that begs the question, is Donald Trump a puppet of Netanyahu? I don't think he's a puppet, but I don't understand the calculation he made. I don't understand what he thinks is in it for him. I mean, look, this is a really cynical thing to say, but maybe he was all pumped up by that
[00:51:30] military parade he had a week ago. And he thinks— Well, I mean, anything— Hey, listen, it don't pay to find out. Any of these options could be the real thing behind the scenes. I do not believe, though, that he was always installed for this eventual outcome because I do not believe—yes, Mark, even though there is a little bit more rigid opposition amongst the grassroots base of the Democratic Party, but that the DEI queen Kamala Harris
[00:51:58] married to the very Jewish Doug Imhoff would have stood up as Stonewall Jackson to the Israeli lobby. I think that they would have gotten this anyway— Nobody who is an American president can do it. IHR.org, please go there. Mark, the big question, does this one action, as catastrophic and as seminal as it is, does it negate the advances and the good that Trump has done? And there has been some good.
[00:52:26] Anybody saying that there has been no good and no difference is not being real? Well, there's two ways to look at it. On those people who are supporting Trump for principal reasons, that is, they like his policies, or whether they're supporting him because they think he's better for them in their pocketbook. Most American—most people vote for people not on the basis of foreign policy or even DEI or immigration—they vote—they ask themselves, am I better off?
[00:52:56] I mean, most people, they ask themselves, who's going to help me pay the mortgage or the rent or get me a job? Those are the kind of calculations that most people make. If Trump can't—if the economy sort of stays in place, then his support will—his base will stay more or less solid, I think. But if the economy goes bad, that's going to be very bad, even for those people who might support him for other reasons.
[00:53:20] In other words, when you say support, people can say they like somebody, but if the economy goes bad, you'll see support for any president disappear pretty quickly. I think that the ultimate red line that he doesn't need to cross is a draft. If he starts drafting American youngsters to fight in this war— Well, Keith, you and I were talking—we were talking about it pre-show. People don't know this. I mean, this goes back to Tucker Carlson eviscerating Ted Cruz.
[00:53:50] Iran is almost three times the size of Texas and bordered by mountains on almost all sides. And also has enormous wealth. Good luck. Good luck. Boots on the ground in there. We'll see. Yeah, that's— Mark, the music's playing. Final word to you as the music plays. Well, I guess all I can say is, I mean, we're trying to look at the items that we have on our website.
[00:54:15] Try to keep—stand back a bit and don't be taken in by a lot of the propaganda you're going to hear, including from Donald Trump and including from Democrats in this thing. Yes, that's right. There's no propaganda like wartime propaganda. IHR.org, you can cut through it. We've got to—Mark, I—my God, there's not enough time. Mark, we could go every hour, three hours every week with you, my friend.
[00:54:41] Thank you for being the best among us and for having just cutting, impression, analysis and commentary. We'll be back with a third hour, and we'll talk to you again soon, Mark. Clear.