[00:00:01] You're listening to the Liberty News Radio Network, and this is the Political Cesspool. The Political Cesspool, known across the South and worldwide as the South's foremost populist conservative radio program. And here to guide you through the murky waters of the Political Cesspool is your host, James Edwards.
[00:00:32] Ladies and gentlemen, a great show tonight, a powerhouse show tonight. This is TPC. I'm your host, James Edwards. Saturday evening, May the 17th, it is beginning to get a little hot out there, as it always does around this time of year, and it's going to be hot in the studio tonight.
[00:00:52] In our second hour this evening, ladies and gentlemen, we are going to speak with a South African farmer who has come to live in the United States. He sought asylum, and now he has it. Don't miss this exclusive interview when our guest offers his take on one of the most significant developments in world news. But first, Pastor Brett McAtee is back with us this hour to talk about contemporary issues,
[00:01:20] including this issue of the Afrikaners getting fast-tracked into the U.S. as refugees. Pastor Brett McAtee, of course, so regularly is featured at Christmas time and at Easter, and always presents a great message for us at those special holy days tonight, coming on as a regular guest to talk politics and other things as it pertains to the church.
[00:01:47] And I wanted to have Brett back on since I was up there in Michigan a few weeks ago, and this made for the perfect occasion. He's going to be speaking about a lot of things this hour, including the Episcopal Church, refusing to resettle these refugees. It seems as though white Christians are the only refugees they don't want to resettle at that particular church. So Pastor McAtee, it's great to have you back. How are you tonight, brother? Hey, I'm well, and I'm honored to be back again. Thanks for asking me. Well, thanks for coming on.
[00:02:16] And, Liz, we have to make haste with Pastor McAtee this hour. He will be with us the entire hour, but we have so much to cover with him. We're going to skip those floater breaks and just take the bottom of the hour break. But, Brett, one thing I want to reestablish with you, again, is people are familiar with you. You have come on the show for other reasons, but always with us at Christmas and Easter. I just want to go back through a couple of your bona fides, beginning with your educational background through seminary and things like that. Sure.
[00:02:46] I attended what was called at the time Marion College. They since have upgraded that name to Indiana Wesleyan University in Marion, Indiana. My mentor there, probably the most influential man in my life, was Dr. Glenn Martin, who hammered presuppositionalism and worldview thinking in every course that he taught.
[00:03:08] By the time I was done there, I had a degree in religion, philosophy, history, and political science. But the emphasis really was on, you know, beginning to get my feet wet in this understanding of what presuppositionalism, which is a kind of epistemology, how do we know what we know, apologetics. That was the beginning itself, the arc. From there, I went to seminary in Columbia, South Carolina. It's also upgraded its name to Columbia International University.
[00:03:38] It was Columbia Biblical Seminary when I was there. I got a degree there in a Master's of Divinity with an emphasis on cross-cultural emphasis, dealing. That fit well with what I had done in worldview thinking. I had a guy there named Dr. Philip Stein who was really good at cultural issues, identifying culture, defining what it is, what it looks like.
[00:04:04] And then from there, I did Ph.D. work at Whitfield Seminary, though I never finished that degree. So that's a quick overview of my educational bona fides. So, and bona fide they are, Bachelor of Science in Political Science as well as in Religion, Philosophy, and History. You then went and got a Master's of Divinity at seminary, pursued some doctoral work before going into the ministry.
[00:04:27] You have now served as the pastor of Christ the King Reformed Church in Charlotte, Michigan for the last 30 years. And, of course, folks, what we're talking about here is a true brick-and-mortar congregation. I had the honor of worshiping with Pastor Brett and his congregation just a few weeks ago when I was up in Michigan to give a talk. And it was certainly my honor to spend that Sunday morning with my whole family, with my family, my wife, and my daughters, at least. My son stayed home on that trip, but we were there in that congregation, and it was wonderful.
[00:04:56] And this is a congregation, Pastor, and your ministry have come under fire. This small but vibrant church there in mid-Michigan has come under fire from one of America's most notorious hate groups, the Southern Poverty Law Center. And, of course, a great crush of media attention a few years ago. What was that all about? Yeah, to this day it befuddles me how a pastor of a church of 30 people, 35 people,
[00:05:27] was targeted by a giant organization like the SBLC. I have my suspicions about how that happened, but I don't know for sure. But, yeah, they put me on their list, and, of course, I didn't get any notification of that. The first thing I know of it, I'm getting phone calls from reporters all over the place telling me they want to interview me. I'm like, what? And when they told me what it was all about, I just stiff-armed them because the media is what the media is,
[00:05:53] and you can't say anything to the media that they're not going to spin to their advantage. And so they put us on – they didn't put us – well, they called us a white extremist group is what I think they called us. We're still on their list. And so, yeah, then Michigan media – Yeah, then Michigan media picked it up, and I grew up with newspapers being a big thing.
[00:06:17] I mean, I was around newspapers as a kid, peddling them, actually working within the confines of the structures as well as peddling. And to me, newspapers are a big deal. Now, I know that they don't have the influence they once had, but the local Lansing newspaper here gave me two above-the-fold headlines. Now, above-the-fold headlines, I mean, that's – I mean, you put only the important stuff above the fold.
[00:06:44] And there we were, Charlotte University Reform Church or some variant thereof, you know, being splashed in the Michigan public media radio station, PBS, Michigan Edition. They were running my name every hour on the hour. Local journalistic rags were running my name besides the Lansing State Journal. Now, ministers in Charlotte were running me with a microphone as fast as they could to denounce me without – You should have had a GoFundMe page.
[00:07:12] I think it was a little bit before that became a fad, but yeah, isn't that the truth? Yeah, I thought about that five years ago. I might have been a millionaire by now. Well, the culture has shifted. We're going to be talking about that more later in the show. But the reason I ask this, though, folks, here's the reason I'm asking this.
[00:07:28] Before we get into why we brought Pastor Brett back on tonight, and that is to – well, for several reasons, but perhaps chief among them is the current news about the Episcopal Church, as I mentioned, refusing to resettle these Afrikaners, citing moral opposition. And I just wanted to reestablish the fact that this is a man who did receive a Master's of Divinity in seminary after he got his bachelor's. He is the pastor of an actual church, not just a radio pastor or somebody like we see here in Memphis.
[00:07:58] Everybody in Memphis is a reverend, you know. But an actual church, an actual pastor, and he has stood up. He never backed down when the SPLC came down and targeted him as whatever they call you, an extremist or a racist or whatever. He never apologized. He never backed down. And then just to give you one more example as a testament to his leadership, Pastor, you were, of course, have been the pastor of this particular church. And that's a testament to his leadership, which I was in last month for 30 years. That includes at the height of the COVID hysteria.
[00:08:28] How did you respond to that? I know a lot of pastors responded quite differently than you did. Yeah, and just a quick insertion, shout-out to Longtown, South Carolina. I pastored there for six years before coming here. But in terms of the COVID, we just didn't shut down. Of course, now Michigan didn't require it. Some states did. Michigan didn't require it, but the whole thing was out there where we strongly advised. Most churches did.
[00:08:57] Even though it was legal. Yeah. Most churches. Well, in point of fact, it happened over Easter was one of the Sundays when it first started. And I had people driving as far as three hours away because they wanted to attend an Easter sunrise service. And there wasn't anything between, in this case, they were in Muskegon, Michigan. There wasn't anything open between Muskegon and Charlotte. And so everybody was shutting down.
[00:09:24] But I had a good friend who statistics is this thing. And he told me that statistically, what he was looking at, it wasn't possible for what was being said to have happened to indeed be happening. It just statistically was not possible. And I don't know statistics, but I know this chap. And he's a good friend. I trust him.
[00:09:47] And based on that, and then Dr. Jay Batateria, he wrote a column in the Wall Street Journal, I think it was, that went online. He's now head of the National Institutes of Health. Fauci and company, Malone tried to destroy him. But he came out. He got an article out. And he said, look, we need to be slow walking this. This is not what it's being presented as. And I came across that.
[00:10:12] And I combined the two things, my friend who did statistics and this chap, plus, and then I added my instinctual distrust of all things government. I combined all those things together, talked to my elders, and said, you know, we're not shutting down. We'll take some precautions, but we're not shutting down. All right. So there you have it, folks. And there was a reason I wanted to reestablish this background that I have long known and loved about Brett.
[00:10:37] But for the benefit of those who perhaps haven't heard some of his previous interviews on TPC, where we have talked about his background and contemporary issues, again, above and beyond. We're going to skip this break here. Thank you, Liz. Above and beyond the Easter and Christmas messages that he so capably delivers. But, yes, so he does have a Master's of Divinity. He's one of our stable or bullpen of theological talent. Well, that's absolutely right. And he's chief among them.
[00:11:04] And so, again, graduated from seminary, pastor of this brick-and-mortar church, has stood up to the SBLC, did not apologize or acquiesce during crushing media attention there in mid-Michigan. And this charming church that he pastors is right in between, I guess you could say, between Lake Michigan and Detroit there in mid-Michigan, the Lansing area. I was just there. Very charming. Is it near the Muslim area? Dearborn? No, it's not. I didn't see any of that.
[00:11:31] And then during COVID, he kept the doors open, and he continued to minister to his flock. So that is who we're talking to. And we're talking to him tonight because, well, first of all, there's never a wrong time to have Brett on. But I have seen, again, Brett online, many people who share our concerns culturally and with regards to immigration and other issues.
[00:11:54] But they're seeing these things coming out and these headlines, and it's just moving them further away from the faith or reinforcing their belief that the Christian faith is at fault here for the downfall of the West. And we'll address that in a moment, too. Obviously, we don't agree with that.
[00:12:13] But switching gears to this issue, when asked by a reporter why Afrikaners are getting fast-tracked into the United States, President Trump replied quite boldly, I might add, because they're being killed. It's a genocide. They happen to be white. Now, as you know, Pastor, this recent National Public Radio headline states, quote,
[00:12:33] the Episcopal Church will not settle white Afrikaners citing moral opposition as a pastor, as a legitimate ordained pastor of a brick-and-mortar church. Sweet fellowship. How do you respond to this issue? Well, I have to say, if you don't mind, I have personal history here, too, because one of the things that the Lansing State Journal ran, as reported by a denominational chief in the denomination we were formerly attached to,
[00:13:02] they quoted this chap in the Lansing State Journal and said, I had the temerity to pray for the South African farmers who were being killed. One of the ladies had given a prayer request. You have to pray for the farmers in South Africa who are being killed. I prayed for it. This guy now is quoted in the Lansing State Journal and says, you know, obviously that's not happening in South Africa, and this shows what a white racist McAfee is. So I have some experience with this issue.
[00:13:29] Yeah, the Episcopalians, they've been off the track, off the reservations, at least in their mainline expression for decades, decades and decades. Indeed, it's interesting. They were one of the first ones back in, I think it was the 20s or 30s, that opened the door to abortifacients being used in the context of marriage. Before that, all of Protestantism had said, no, no, no, this is not biblical. But the Episcopalians were the first ones to open the door on that particular issue,
[00:13:58] and now we all know where we're at now. And what particular issue was that? Whether or not abortifacients could be used in the context of marriage. Means by which, yeah, means by which, yes, conception would not happen. So the fact that this chap comes out, a pasty white guy, bald white guy, comes out and says, you know, we're not going to do this anymore.
[00:14:27] All it tells me is that, and he complained about the immorality of it, it only tells me that he has the morality of a Marxist. And so, of course, if you have the morality of a Marxist, you're going to call Christian morality immorality. And there's no doubt that genocide is happening. Good night, those people are in the thousands and tens of thousands, jumping up and down on platforms, chanting, kill the boar. I mean, what more do you need? And so I find myself incredulous that this is even mentioned.
[00:15:00] Well, all right, go ahead, Keith. I was going to say, I have a little experience in that since I was a lifelong Episcopalian. My mother was an English war bride. My father had been a Wesleyan, like you were talking about Indiana Wesleyan, a Methodist. But as so often happens, the wife determines whether they go to church. So we went to the nearest thing to the Anglican church in America, which was the Episcopalian church. But there's a group, they call it the Seven Sisters of the Mainline.
[00:15:28] It includes Northern Baptists, Disciples of Christ, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Congregationalists. And basically, there's a great book about it called The Empty Church by Thomas Reeves and about how they've been dwindling basically since the Enlightenment. You know, they had a few recoveries briefly, like John Henry Newman in the Oxford Reform Movement, things like this. But they've been going downhill.
[00:15:58] And I finally just had it. When they went for gay bishops, I had to say, that's it. I'm gone. Yeah. What? And. But then on the other hand, I know some good churches. OK. That were in that denomination. Well, this is something that now. And, Brett, you mentioned this. There's actually going to be a Brett and I are working on a print interview along these lines for the American Free Press. And you say that. Listen.
[00:16:22] And you said, well, I'll just read straight from your text here that you don't consider the Episcopal church to be a genuine church. But you have no doubt that there are Christians in their fellowship. But institutionally speaking, the leadership and the institution itself left the Christian faith long ago. And then I would just say, I mean, here you have this, though. I mean, the current event issue that we're talking about is the fact that not only would they not work, they have worked to settle every part of humanity under the sun.
[00:16:52] But women and children, these white women and children, these fathers who have stable jobs, who could be contributing members to American society, not one single gang tattoo. Everyone is waving an American flag, as a friend of mine wrote in an email this week. No gang affiliation. These are the only refugees that the left hates and that this church won't accommodate. It seems like they will accommodate anyone under the sun except for white Christians. And then they refuse so ardently to even be involved in this, although they have helped resettle all other so-called refugees,
[00:17:22] that not only did they refuse to help resettle these 59 people is what we're talking about. Not only did they refuse to do that, Pastor, they are withdrawing from the program entirely. They are so morally outraged. What is the moral outrage? And again, your response to this, and how would you have responded? Well, it's true. It's just ideological and theological. These people are bent.
[00:17:47] If you pull a chain far enough up the ladder, somewhere somebody is epistemologically self-conscious about what they're doing. They're trying to destroy old Christendom or what's left of old Christendom. And they'll do anything they can. And again, I'm convinced it's driven by a Marxist mentality. They'll do anything they can in order to destroy what's left of Christendom. And of course, America is really the last bulwark of Christendom.
[00:18:14] It's evangelicals alone, as much problem as I have with evangelicals, who are the bulwark of maintaining Christianity such as it still exists in America. And so the Episcopalians want to destroy all remnants.
[00:18:31] They want to, along with these other agencies that belong to these other liberal denominations, what they're trying to do is to break down the social order so as to drive a new order, which finds all the nations coming together, all colors bleeding into one. I imagine having only sky above us, the whole John Lennon song. And so they're committed to that, to doing that.
[00:18:59] And so when white people are coming here, and I would bet the farm that most of these 59 are white Christians, at least to some degree or another. South Africa was a very Christian nation. That's what they're exploding about. They're exploding about the fact that there might be more Christian influence that's coming into the country, and they don't want anything to do with that. Having been pagans themselves, you can't put a collar on somebody and automatically just assume they're a Christian. Let me say.
[00:19:29] My pastor used to say, not every building with a steeple is a church. Go, Keith. That's right. And like I said, they've exchanged the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John for the Gospels of Peter, Paul, and Mary. There it is. John, we had 99 out of 100 odds that that would come up tonight. Yeah, exactly. But see, there's something that happened to these churches, particularly in the civil rights movement. That just apparently pressed all their buttons. Yeah, and it happened even decades prior to that. I mean, they've been bad. They've been sour for a long time.
[00:19:58] Well, my idea is that they've been taken over, and what had happened to them, okay, is that you had people that were – if you're a community activist, and you want a syndicure, you want a paycheck, and you want to continue doing what you've been doing, which is community activism, i.e. leftist activism, Yeah, right. You can't do much better than being a pastor at one of these mainline Protestant churches. Yeah, I think that's spot on.
[00:20:27] And the Catholic churches, of course, are the same way, and you're talking about the fundamentalists. The problem with the fundamentalists is they embrace this Jewish dispensationalist heresy. You know, he who blesses Israel is blessed. He who curses Israel is cursed. Yeah, they're on special kind of nutcase. Yeah, that's it. The Episcopalians, I'm sure, are all on the side of the Palestinians, and the Southern Baptists are all on the side of the Jews on this. But nonetheless, where is the gospel in this?
[00:20:56] You know, it's just – it's a forgotten stepchild of these so-called churches. Well, I will remind you before you answer, Pastor, to check out – if you like what you're hearing. And we're going to transition in the next hour – excuse me, in the next half hour and then the last two segments of this hour, we're going to transition to more broad-scale things in terms of white guilt, in terms of the so-called sin of tolerance, the so-called sin of racism.
[00:21:24] We're going to get decisive answers on this from Pastor Brett McAtee. But if you like what you're hearing from Pastor Brett, you can go to ironsermons.org. Now, of course, we always cite the website, charlottereformed.org. That is the church website. Iron – like Jeremy Irons. I can't say iron right. It's like iron. Yeah. Iron – I-R-O-N. You know, iron like the middle.
[00:21:55] His sermons and ironink.com, which is now linked to our daily reads. And there, Brett offers his thoughts and reflections upon current issues. We'll get into some of that as well. But one more take, Brett, with two minutes remaining this segment before we have to take the hard break on the Episcopal Church, the issue of these white South Africans, how you would have responded if you were in charge of the Episcopal Church and asked to help these 59 people.
[00:22:22] Hopefully there will be 59,000 or even – I don't think they have 59 million, but as many as we can take. We need them. They'd be a credit. How would you have responded? I would have been jumping on Trump's desk and asking, only 59? Come on. Open the doors. I have a friend – I have actually a couple of friends that live in South Africa. There's 2.8 million boars there. I just learned that recently. And there's plenty of room for them.
[00:22:50] Indeed, I would – if it was me, I would say, okay, we're ignoring the Supreme Court's decision that everything has to go through these lower courts. And if they put a stop on immigration, then it has to stop. I would tell Trump, ignore that. Pull an Andrew Jackson. Andrew Jackson said to John Marshall, he has made his decision. Now let him enforce it. That's what I would say to Trump. That's what you need to do. You need to do. And they've made their decision. Now let them enforce it. Now you just start – keep sending out all these millions and millions that have come here illegally.
[00:23:20] Send them out. And if you want to have people in, then bring in the South Africans. Because goodness knows, those people are in danger. And subsequently to all this happening, the South African government came out itself and just basically said about the people that were leaving is that they're in no danger. They're just cowards, basically. They didn't use the word cowards. They said that they're hanging on to their segregationist past, basically. And we've heard that. Well, that's what the Episcopal Church was saying, too. Yeah.
[00:23:50] Well, we can't have them in because – All that's baloney. I believe in a properly oriented segregation. Now that's probably giving me all kinds of grief. But I don't think segregation is unbiblical. And if you look at South Africa, there's got to be – I know I've read articles of black people saying, I miss apartheid. Well, they miss having a functioning society. Well, the thing about segregation – if you don't believe in segregation, how do you explain the Tower of Babel passages in the Bible?
[00:24:19] We're going to get into all of this in the next half hour. But, I mean, again, the catalyst – well, I hear the music. So we will have to take a break. But when I was at Brett's church, Pastor McAtee's church, a few weeks ago, he mentioned it briefly, but certainly mentioned prominently, the so-called sin of white guilt. And he had a great answer for that. We're going to get into all of that in the next half hour.
[00:24:45] And then in the second hour, one of these white farmers from South Africa who has gotten asylum. Stay tuned. Proclaiming liberty across the land. You're listening to Liberty News Radio. News this hour from townhall.com. I'm Jason Walker. High-level talks coming up on the telephone.
[00:25:07] President Donald Trump posted on his Truth Social site Saturday that he'll be speaking by phone on Monday with Russian President Vladimir Putin about the war in Ukraine. Trump says that the subject will be stopping the bloodbath. Then Trump says he plans to speak with Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky and members of NATO.
[00:25:26] Meanwhile, Ukrainian officials say a Russian drone on Saturday hit a bus evacuating civilians from a frontline area in Ukraine's northeastern Sumy region, killing nine people. Zelensky described the attack as deliberate killing of civilians. I'm Donna Water. The death count from last night's tornadoes in several states now stands at 27. That includes 18 in Kentucky.
[00:25:51] There were seven deaths in Missouri and two more in Virginia. Also at townhall.com, two polls indicating majority of approval for President Trump. The Rasmussen Report's daily presidential tracking poll for Friday shows 51 percent of likely U.S. voters approve of President Trump's job performance against 48 percent who disapprove. Within those numbers, 38 percent strongly approve, while 37 percent strongly disapprove.
[00:26:18] Unless the Rasmussen results appear an exception, Friday's RMG Research poll shows President Trump with a 52 percent approval rating against 48 percent who disapprove. Two other polls have majority support for the president among the 14 included in the Real Clear Politics average, which shows President Trump's rating averaging at 46.1 percent approval. George Williams reporting.
[00:26:39] Walgreens has agreed to pay $106 million to settle lawsuits alleging it submitted false payment claims on government health care programs for prescriptions that were never dispensed. Settlement resolved suits filed in New Mexico, Texas, and Florida. More on these stories, townhall.com. Hi, this is Rhett Rasmussen of besthotgrill.com.
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[00:27:53] That's besthotgrill.com. Besthotgrill.com. God tells us in Hebrews 10.25 that we should gather together to worship Him. This isn't a request, it is a command. Going to church isn't an option, it is your Christian duty. With the hellish apostasy of mainstream churches, attending church these days can be difficult.
[00:28:16] That is why your King James only traditional services in the ancient church of St. Mary Magdalene are live online, and I invite you to gather with our congregation to study God's Holy Word. Join us every Sunday at thetemplarchurch.com, and especially on the first Sunday of the month for Holy Communion. This do in remembrance of me is also a command that all Christians must obey.
[00:28:42] I'm Reverend Jim Dowson, ordained Puritan minister, nationalist, and a veteran pro-life campaigner. Tune in to my weekly sermons at thetemplarchurch.com. Based in Ireland, this old-time religion is the faith that built America. God bless you. Hey, y'all! Do you enjoy great-tasting coffee but are tired of supporting companies that hate you? If so, let me tell you about Above Time Coffee. Above Time Coffee is a privately owned and operated small business.
[00:29:11] They hand-roast coffee and ship it to customers throughout the United States and abroad. Above Time Coffee was launched because they saw a need for more pro-white businesses serving our people. The time has come to take our own side. And did I mention their coffee tastes great? It's the best coffee I've ever tasted. When James brought home a sample from a conference, I was hooked and threw out all the other brands. I think you will too after you make an order at abovetimecoffee.com. Living a healthy and active lifestyle is important to us.
[00:29:39] And I appreciate the effort Above Time Coffee invests in keeping its products organic. And there are so many flavors to choose from. Check it out for yourself by visiting abovetimecoffee.com. It's the only coffee we drink at the Edwards Home. Delicious Coffee. A company that serves the interests of our people. Check out their selection today. At abovetimecoffee.com. Because they're being killed. And we don't want to see people be killed.
[00:30:05] Now, South Africa leadership is coming to see me, I understand, sometime next week. And, you know, we're supposed to have a, I guess, a G20 meeting there or something. But we're having a G20 meeting. I don't know how we can go unless that situation's taken care of. But it's a genocide that's taking place that you people don't want to write about. But it's a terrible thing that's taking place. And farmers are being killed. They happen to be white.
[00:30:33] But whether they're white or black makes no difference to me. But white farmers are being brutally killed. And their land is being confiscated in South Africa. And the newspapers and the media, television media, doesn't even talk about it. If it were the other way around, they'd talk about it. That would be the only story they'd talk about. But that's the most amazing thing I've ever heard a president say. I mean, ever. In my lifetime, certainly. But, I mean, you'd have to go back. I don't even know how far. I mean, so there you have it. See, they're being persecuted because they're white.
[00:31:03] And so here you have President Trump condemning white genocide by name in South Africa. And the State Department throwing it out at the welcome mat now for these Afrikaner refugees. While otherwise shutting down the refugee program. Which is, I mean, absolutely makes it doubly incredible. He's doing everything. See, I can't get on to him because he may do things for the wrong reasons. For example, shutting down Harvard and Columbia because of anti-Semitism.
[00:31:31] But he's shutting down anti-Fib protests up there. Yeah, but on the other hand, I wish he was doing it because of the discrimination against white Gentile Christians. Because they certainly have been discriminated against at those schools. But since, you know, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. So I'm glad. You know, put them out of business. Trump is a lot more than that. I tell you, this is a different Trump. If time permits, we'll ask Brett his thought on this.
[00:31:55] But I think he, you know, I think they have radicalized him with the assassination attempts, with the attempts to put him in prison. This is something. I mean, this is really something. So that is what we're talking about. And Brett addressed the issue of the South African refugees in the first half of this interview. And what he would do had he been asked to resettle them, as the Episcopal Church certainly had a different take. We will be talking with a South African farmer.
[00:32:24] Let me tell you the thing about the Episcopal Church. Let me say this before I forget it. Very quick. We've got to move on. You know, you know, you're in a dying church when their primary stewardship campaign is estate planning. All right. Now, let's go back to this.
[00:32:37] So I want to talk to you, Pastor, about the issue with our people about looking at the church and gagging. Had they not been, if they are a nonreligious Trump supporter or if they are someone who is pro-white but was not,
[00:33:01] didn't have the benefit of being raised in a church like yours or being raised in a church like I had the fortune of being in. And do you believe that there can be a muscular brand of Christianity that reemerges that served the West for so long? And dominates Christianity again. Yeah, well, your listeners might or might not be familiar with this, but by my eschatology,
[00:33:27] which is my understanding of the way that the future works, I am a post-millennial, which means I'm optimistic. I also try to be realistic, but I'm optimistic. In Psalm 2, Jesus says, or God says, kiss the son lest you be angry. Speaking to the nations, kiss the son lest you be angry and you perish in the way. There's all kinds of promises in the scriptures. The nations of this world will become the nations of the Lord. The knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters cover the sea.
[00:33:56] And so, you know, the gates of hell will not prevail, Jesus says. So there's all kinds of reasons to be optimistic, but we have to believe in God's word to be optimistic. In other words, if we look at the landscape, if we look what the, you know, the target-rich environment, it would be easy to be negative or pessimistic in what we think of the future. But I'm optimistic. I believe that God reigns.
[00:34:19] I believe that he intends to put everything under the thumb of the sun or make everything in his footstool, as Paul says in Corinthians, and that before Jesus Christ returns. So I think that Christ is going to return to a largely Christianized globe. That doesn't mean every man, woman, and child will be Christian, but it does mean that once again you'll see the rise of Christian institutions and you'll see the Christian cultures flourishing.
[00:34:45] But I must say that what I just explained to you is a very minority opinion within Christendom or within the Christian church. People don't like that kind of optimism. They keep on pointing to things that are negative and say, how can you be optimistic about the future when there's this, this, this, and this? There is a lot of this, this, this, and this. But I believe what Scripture says. You know, really, it is what I was saying, you know,
[00:35:10] that they're living off of the carcass of their former congregations through estate planning. They don't have people in the pews. And it's, you know, it's time for somebody to kick the rats out. Well, I mean, again, just as we would want someone like Trump to blow out the political establishment, we wait for this charismatic force to clean the cucks out of the pulpits. But I just want to, I want to circle back to this very quickly, Pastor. And we've got so much to cover and only 20 minutes left.
[00:35:40] But, you know, I shared a quote with you, and this is someone that you have read many things from. That's Reverend A.W. Tozer. It seems like I bring up this quote every time we have a conversation along these lines. That and Dabney. Absolutely. But he wrote, Tozer wrote, Religion today is not transforming people. Rather, it is being transformed by the people. It is not raising the moral level of society. It is descending to society's own level and congratulating itself that it has scored a victory
[00:36:09] because society is smilingly accepting its surrender. Now, we know that. Well, look, let me say this in regard to that, though. The people aren't driving this. You have an alien elite that have captured these churches. And that's. Well, I said that to someone today who is a fan of Pastor Brett's from the Pacific Northwest. And he called me and I'm going to be doing an interview with him on his program coming up this week.
[00:36:34] And we understand that the people in the pews, there's a gulf of difference between the average Southern Baptist in a rural small town church that you would find in the pews. You go in there, you talk to them, Keith. They're going to be nine out of ten on the issues. And the Southern Baptist. Except for Southern, for Jewish dispensationalism. Well, that's fine. Well, maybe that's the one. But here's the thing, Brett, back to you on this and what our orders are to occupy, to avoid despair. And I'd like to have you talk about this.
[00:37:04] But I know that many people who did not have the experience with the faith that we have had, who otherwise share our opinions on culture and on race and on immigration and so on and so forth. We understand that these churches are dying. Many churches are dying today because they alienate men, the natural spiritual leaders of families. Along other things. They demand that the saving grace of Christ comes attached at the hip with this suicide package. You know, feminized leadership.
[00:37:33] Dabney warned us of this, saying that any reasonable person would reject ridiculous practices of religion out of hand, meaning that the strongest and some of the very best people would be alienated from Christianity. So how do we overcome that? That really ties into the last question I asked you. And can it be overcome? I believe that it can. I believe that it will. As society and culture shifts, the church will become stronger. Because what is the church except for a collection of people from the community that come together? Right.
[00:38:03] So if you were talking about concrete steps, I think we need to have some serious thinking about starting new denominations. And that happened a week ago in North Carolina with a friend of mine named Reverend Spangler, who was given the heave-ho by a wicked denomination. A similar thing happened to another friend named Michael Hunter, who was given the heave-ho from another so-called conservative wicked denomination. They're collaborating. They're working together.
[00:38:30] But we need to build more of these denominations, because I don't think you're going to reform even what's called conservative denominations from the inside out today. Jesus himself said you don't put new wine into old wineskins. And so we need to come out of these, well, they're called napark. I won't explain what that phrase means. Old wine into new wineskins. Right. Thank you. No, it's new wine into old wineskins. But anyway, we can look that up later.
[00:39:01] But the reality is that they're trying to, in these old churches, put this new theology into the old churches. Right. Secondly, we need to, more Christians need to become, the rank and file, as led by the pastors, to become epistemologically self-conscious. And what that means is that they need to start more and more pulling their children out of these government schools, out of the public schools. I call them government schools because that's what they are.
[00:39:27] As long as we're sending our children to these government schools and we're saturating them six, eight hours a day, whatever it is, in basically a humanist religion because they are teaching a religion there. They're teaching the religion of humanism. They're teaching the religion of antichrist. So what happens when they go there, they get that for 13 years. They're not even counting the university now. If they stay, which they usually don't, when they graduate from high school, they usually leave. Then they'll come back when they have kids years later. But they've come back with an alien worldview that's reinterpreting Christianity.
[00:39:56] And so we've got to do something to rescue our children. And more and more Christians need to pull their children out of government schools. Then we need to build parallel societies as a third plank. And by parallel societies, I mean we need to have communities formed where Christians themselves, within these communities, are doing business with one another, are opening their own businesses, are interacting on an economic level with one another.
[00:40:21] So we're building parallel communities, yet we're not isolating ourselves like the Amish do. We're still involved, but yet we're harnessing our strength and yoking our strength together. Christians have to start doing what the Muslims do in Dearborn. They have to start self-identifying. We are Christians. We're going to live in a Christian way. And this is what it means to live in a Christian way. So we need to build these parallel societies. And in those parallel cultures or societies, just as it was once upon a time, the church has to be the center.
[00:40:51] Once upon a time, when you went to a village, when you went to the center of the village, what did you find? You found the church. And right now, when you go to an area, what do you find at the center? You either find a school or you find a government building. That communicates volumes. So we have to build new denominations. We have to leave the existing denominations. Those two go hand in hand. We have to get our kids out of government schools. And parents, they can do homeschooling better.
[00:41:21] I've often said that my children would have been better off, never have been educated at all, than to have been educated in the government schools. All right. Well, one of the big problems, though, is this, with the churches. In these mainline Protestant denominations, the church does not own its own building. It's the denomination that owns it. And that's the... That's the truth in the main lines, but it's not true in those that are called conservatives. Fundamentals.
[00:41:51] Yeah. Yeah. It is true in a lot of situations, but it's also not true in a lot of situations. All right. Let me ask you this, Pastor. I just want to shift gears, and again, we have to accelerate this because we are down to the last quarter hour of this hour. And I want to circle back to this because when I had the honor of attending your service a few weeks ago, and thank you again for that, you mentioned white guilt. And, of course, we don't believe, and I don't believe, and you share this belief, I believe,
[00:42:20] that whites should have anything to be guilty about, certainly no more than anyone else. But you said even if there were something that we should have felt guilty for, that price has already been paid. And you really connected those dots quite well from a Christian perspective. Share your thoughts with us on that. Yeah. This is important.
[00:42:43] So the nitty-gritty of it is this, is that man without Christ is somebody who's carrying their sin. There's nobody else to carry their sin. And sin produces guilt. So if you have a large population that doesn't own Christ, if it's not Christian, then you have a lot of people that are walking around carrying their own sin and guilt. The only place that can be relieved is the cross of Jesus Christ.
[00:43:11] Now, instead of going to Christ and receiving the forgiveness and the atonement that he paid for, you pay for the penalty of sin, and it's taken away our guilt. So what they do is they either try to pay for their own guilt by masochistic, I'm sorry, sadistic self-punishment. And so you see a lot of people that are basically destroying themselves.
[00:43:35] Or they try to swap off their guilt onto other people, which is typical of narcissism. And we see a vast rise in that. So man without Christ is going to become sadistic or masochistic as an attempt to pay for his own sin. Now, where white guilt comes in is that white people, they have the guilt laid upon them by race pimps and by the Shabazz Goy or by others.
[00:44:04] And they're told that the way that they can get rid of this white guilt is by supporting everything, every Marxist program you could possibly imagine. So I'm convinced, for example, in 2012 or 2008. Yes, that's right. First 2008. I'm convinced that a lot of white people voted for Barack Obama because they were trying to get rid of white guilt. They were trying to atone for their own sins. They were trying to get rid of something they can't get rid of except by looking to Jesus Christ.
[00:44:34] And so there's a lot of white guilt out there. A chap named Bruckner, B-R-U-C-K-N-E-R, wrote a book years ago called The White Man's Tears, which I would recommend on this subject. But what happens is that white people are made to feel guilty. And then feeling guilty, they're showing the solution. And that solution is by doing something to atone for themselves, by groveling before minorities, by opening up to the country and letting them in.
[00:45:03] And by doing that, they can tell themselves they're paying for their sins. They're relieving themselves of their guilt. But it never works, of course, because only Jesus Christ can take away our sin and can pay for our guilt. See, the way I look at it... Well, he understands that. Look, what I was going to say, Brent, is that it's basically the whole civil rights movement, all of this white guilt, is an exercise in gaslighting, making you feel guilt about something you should not be guilty about. And Brent agrees that there should not be...
[00:45:31] But even if you did believe that there was a guilt, a sin debt of guilt, that it's already been paid. So why do you continue to engage in this, I believe, Pastor, you would call it masochism, this public display of masochism, when if there was ever a sin or anything to be guilty of at all, it's already been paid for. So what are you doing? Segregation is not a sin. That's just normally instinctive. Go to the whole thing... Go ahead, Pastor.
[00:45:58] I was going to say, even if somebody wanted to say that, no, we owe restitutions, or what's commonly called reparations, who could not argue that we've already paid reparations, far in excess, and what the Old Testament required of somebody who had stolen something from somebody else. With our welfare programs, our set-asides, our quotas, we have paid reparations a thousand times more. And the idea that we have to pay even more, even if it were true and not true, is stupid.
[00:46:28] Exactly. Even if it were true and it's not true, you nailed it, my friend. And the whole thing is, oh, you were a slave? So what? Who wasn't? You know, who wasn't a slave at some point? Whites have been slaves. Whites have been slaves to Muslims. I mean, this is not a unique thing, the American South or the American experience. Now, we are very low on time. I want to go very quickly. There are only people that haven't been able to overcome it. Very, very, very quickly. And that is the alleged sins of racism. This is something the Southern Baptists talk about, the evil, wicked sin of racism.
[00:46:58] I've heard the Southern Baptist president speak about it. Go live in the black neighborhood and see if you don't get killed. The sin of racism versus Babel and the division of nations that God himself ordained. Pastor, just a minute on that, and I want to go to something else. Well, I mean, racism is a made-up sin. Show me in the scripture where there is something that's said about racism. The popularity of that whole idea, racist racism, was brought forward by Leon Trotsky
[00:47:26] against the Slavs and trying to destroy their culture once upon a time. He didn't originate it. Magnus Hirschfeld. He popularized it. Well, Trotsky would have been before Hirschfeld, I think. And it doesn't matter. No, no. Hirschfeld was the one who wrote a book on racism and used it in the modern sense of the That's fine. In the mid-30s. All right. Pastor, please. Okay. So, you know, if anybody calls me a racist, or gives me a racism, I ask them immediately to define it.
[00:47:54] You tell me what you think it is. And nine times out of ten, they can't do it because it's just become a pejorative. It's become a means of just stopping the conversation. And when they can define it, it's usually not true. But they're defining it within a cultural Marxist worldview, not within a Christian worldview, because in a Christian worldview, if it exists, it's not that prevalent. But in a cultural Marxist worldview, which is everybody's, the prism of how everybody is looking at things, then it's true in spades. It could be used all the time. And of course, you know, racism is a one-way street.
[00:48:24] Only white people can be guilty of racism. Other people can't be guilty of it because racism is power plus privilege, and only white people have power plus privilege. So the postmodern answer, woke answer goes. But of course, all of that is crap. All of that's nonsense. It's just not true. And people need to become aware of this so they can push back on this stuff. All right, now, another thing that has been in the news, and thank you so much for your leadership and for your resolve.
[00:48:51] And again, I want to be sure to plug the websites ironinc.com and ironsermons.org for sermons. Charlotte Reformed is the website for the church itself. But I want to talk to you about the contemporary issue again, forgiveness. You have written about this. The whole forgiveness issue where we must, you know, Austin Metcalfe's father must forgive
[00:49:21] Carmelo Anthony for killing his kid. And not only that, he must forgive it in the most way that prostrates himself the most to the general public and, of course, raise money. And humiliates the white race generally. All right. But besides that, the whole thing about the Christian admonition to turn the other cheek and forgive, you have a good take on that with regard to this very recent murder. Yeah.
[00:49:47] The problem is that Christians no longer understand the origin of the idea of forgiveness. Forgiveness was a legal term. In other words, it was a term that was used in a legal context. When you forgive somebody, it merely means that you have paid whatever offense that you have that somebody else might have had against you. And so it's a legal term.
[00:50:14] And it doesn't mean that, therefore, you have to open yourself up to future injuries by said person. So, for example, if I had a babysitter and I found out she abused my kids in some way while she was babysitting, I could at the same time forgive her for that, but at the same time say, I hope you get the full weight of the penalty of the law, whatever it might be, against you. There's nothing inconsistent with holding those two ideas together. But for Christians, somehow they think that somehow they have to have this emotional swelling,
[00:50:44] which is the way the word forgiveness is defined today. You have this emotional feeling that wells up, and you start crying over the victim, and, you know, you forgive them. But you can forgive people without, once again, allowing them to do you injury. You can, Metcalf chap. Well, the doctrine of absolution, they seem to forget altogether. You know, if you repent for your sin. Go ahead.
[00:51:12] No, I was just going to say the Metcalf chap could have said on national airwaves, I forgive him for what he's done to my son, but I still want the death penalty applied to him. That's not inconsistent. Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, no, it's not. Well, modern racism, as it's used against whites, it basically writes out of the Bible the doctrine of absolution. You know, if you're not absolved of your, you're never absolved of the sin of racism. All right, so that's a good point, Keith.
[00:51:42] Now, I want to say this very quickly. You know, Pastor Brett does comment on current events. He has commented on the issue of Shiloh Hendricks in an article entitled Boudicca and the Morlock. We posted it yesterday at thepoliticalcessible.org. Check it out. We don't have time to get into it with him right now. I want to read one more quote, and that is of tolerance. And this is Hutton Gibson, as he said it on this program.
[00:52:06] Tolerance is the last virtue of a depraved society when an immoral society has blatantly and proudly violated all the commandments that insist upon one last virtue, tolerance for its immorality. It will not tolerate condemnation of its perversions. It creates a whole new world in which only the intolerant critic of intolerable evil is evil.
[00:52:24] Dorothy Sayers added this, in the world it is called tolerance, but in hell it is called despair, the sin that believes in nothing, cares for nothing, seeks to know nothing, interferes with nothing, enjoys nothing, hates nothing, finds purpose in nothing, lives for nothing, and remains alive only because there is nothing for which it will die. This whole thing that Christians must be tolerant and accepting of all things no matter what. Pastor, your response to that. One minute to go. Biblical intolerance is a virtue.
[00:52:54] It's something that's required of Christ. Christ says in John chapter 7, verse 19, he says, make right judgments. Paul says to the Corinthians, you're going to judge angels someday. Can't you judge these lesser things on earth? And so tolerance is sometimes driven by the idea of judge not lest you be judged, and yet that passage goes on to say, for the same measure in which you're judged, you shall be judged, which means it is assuming you're going to have to judge. We can't live a life without judging, and we can't live life without being, if we're not going to be moral zombies, without making judgments.
[00:53:22] You know, there was a time when America had taboos, and taboos meant that things weren't tolerated. You didn't tolerate tramp stamps all over our womenfolk. You didn't tolerate pieces of metal shoved through people's ears, noses, and wherever else. These were taboos. You didn't do these things. We can't maintain a Christian community without judgment. Right. The only taboo that exists now is the taboo against taboos. And so Hutton is exactly right.
[00:53:52] He's exactly right. In order to have true freedom and liberty, it has to be, as Katie Vance just mentioned, and I really was excited to mention this, we have to have ordered liberty. And ordered liberty is the idea that you have liberty as hemmed in and defined by biblical law. If liberty is not hemmed in and defined, then you have the freedom of a railroad train running without traps, or the freedom of a goldfish without being in his goldfish bowl. And so tolerance is going to kill us.
[00:54:22] Go ahead. Yes. No, you're exactly right. We are out of time. I would remind you only, what a fantastic hour. I could have gone another hour easy. Didn't even get to ask you about the new pope. That would have been something. CharlotteReformed.org IronInc.com IronSermons.org For more from Pastor Brett. Thank you for coming on with us tonight, Pastor. We're going to continue the conversation about South Africa with an asylum seeker who is here in America now. Stay tuned.