Point of View September 9, 2024 – Hour 1 : The Eclipse of God

[00:00:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Live from the United States of America, this is Point of View Radio Talk Show.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_00]: This is a gathering that will be taking place, I believe it is on Tuesday.

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And that is a luncheon and it is an opportunity for you to join with us.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it would be very appropriate for you to click on that registration and to do so.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So again, we are making it possible for you to join with us.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_00]: At the moment this particular designation says registration opening soon.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_00]: There may be a glitch there.

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So you may just have to simply send us an email saying, I'm going to be there.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_00]: It is now popped up there.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_00]: It's amazing how if you don't click all the buttons, it doesn't work right.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But there we go.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's where you can then register.

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think you will really appreciate that.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So again, looking forward to seeing some of you in Illinois.

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And then the week after that we have our truth team and a number of other activities.

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But again, wanted to thank those who sat in this chair to bring the broadcast.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And again, thank those of you last week and even thank ahead of time those of you next week

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_00]: that are going to make it possible for us to do a remote broadcast.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Always great to meet individuals when we were in the Stockton-Lodi area.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I would have to say that most of the people we met, we had never met before.

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_00]: There were a couple of couples that we had met on some of our Israel trips

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and things of that nature.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_00]: But we met a lot of new faces and names and individuals.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And so again, it was just great to meet some in Sacramento, some in Lodi,

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_00]: some in Stockton, and it was a great experience there as well.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Program today, in the bottom of the hour we're going to be talking with Dr. Erwin Lutzer.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course he produces so many good books and this is one I will commend to you,

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_00]: The Eclipse of God, Our Nation's Disastrous Search for a More Inclusive Deity

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_00]: and What We Must Do About That.

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course we've had him on the program talking about many of his other books.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And then next hour we'll spend some time talking with Jonathan Sines.

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_00]: There is the Texas Faith, Family and Freedom Forum.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_00]: If you're in the state of Texas, you may want to attend.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_00]: But even if you don't, the topics we'll be addressing certainly have national import

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and significance and also given what he is actually doing to bring people together

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_00]: to educate them about the issues during this election,

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I hope that you might use his model to do something similar in your community.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And then we'll get back to some of the issues in the news.

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_00]: But if you go to our website, you'll notice that our first article is from our good friend Robert Knight

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_00]: in which it has the title War on Truth, Deep State Style,

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_00]: in which he's talking about the fact that there has been a war on free speech.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_00]: That should not be surprising to you.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_00]: As a matter of fact, when I was doing the broadcast last week from Stockton,

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_00]: we posted an article by David Harsany about Kamala Harris' Banana Republic on free speech.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And she is not the only one, although tomorrow night I'm sure we'll have some comments related to that

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_00]: in the debate between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris.

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_00]: But Robert Knight starts out by saying, you know, it's not even Halloween and the election is two months away.

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Yet the Russian hobgoblins are coming out to scare all the boys and girls.

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And that is we see an attempt to maybe explain again that we have some Russian disinformation.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, we heard that in 2016 and had some questions about whether or not it was true and now found out that it was not.

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_00]: But nevertheless, the FBI of True to Form has actually put out some themes that there may be some Russian bots out there

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_00]: putting out some misinformation.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, of course, we need to clamp down on that misinformation.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_00]: But then Robert Knight, who's good friends with Gary Bauer, quotes Gary Bauer's In Today report,

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_00]: who said Donald Trump might during the debate raise a question and Kamala Harris might say,

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_00]: well, don't believe him. That's just Russian disinformation.

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And lest you think that wouldn't happen, just remember how in the 2020 election when then President Donald Trump

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and candidate certainly Joe Biden, our Vice President Joe Biden actually talked about Hunter Biden's laptop

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and the former Vice President Joe Biden simply blamed it on Russian disinformation.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And the FBI went along with that.

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And of course, you might remember there were 51 national security so-called experts that signed a letter,

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I think deliberately trying to mislead people when we knew full will that that was the laptop of Hunter Biden

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_00]: as evidenced now by all the various trials related to that.

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is a point that Robert Knight is bringing out in terms of Russian disinformation.

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Watch for that tomorrow night and over the next couple of weeks.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_00]: But he also then delves into the fact that you have the Vice President Kamala Harris

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_00]: and the governor of Minnesota, Tim Walz, both who have come out saying that it is really time

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_00]: for again social media to clamp down on misinformation and hate speech.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, again, he then goes from there to remind you of what is happening in Brazil,

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_00]: which we've talked about what is happening in the UK and what is happening in the EU.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And again, we just have such an attempt to say that anything a particular leader does not like is misinformation.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_00]: We can go into the depth of this, but it's pretty obvious that what oftentimes is referred

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_00]: to as misinformation turns out to be accurate information.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the dispensers of misinformation during the pandemic was the government itself

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and government leaders and other individuals who confidently made statements for which there was zero

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_00]: or very little scientific basis.

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So he reminds us that we have a situation which Robert Reisch, you might not know that name,

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_00]: but he was the former Labor Secretary under Bill Clinton.

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Interestingly enough, has called that for maybe even the consideration of threatening Elon Musk,

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_00]: who is now the owner of X used to be called Twitter, with arrest in France.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_00]: That's not hypothetical because you have the president there, Emmanuel Marcon,

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_00]: who's actually arrested Pavel Durov for the work that he's done with what's called Telegraph.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And of course, it comes at a time, as he says, when Europe is going through this again,

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Robert Knight talking about a spasm of censorship fueled by the European Parliament's Digital Services Act.

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And so the interesting thing is that even though we're told in Europe that we have free speech,

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_00]: it's very obvious that whenever a leader thinks that free speech probably is troubling

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_00]: or engages in something related to disinformation, misinformation, hate speech,

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_00]: it is very quickly brought down.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the individuals there, a commissioner, Thierry Breton, has been,

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_00]: as the Wall Street Journal said, wielding the law as a cudgel to censor speech worldwide.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And so as a result, we are seeing again a real push for the various social media outlets,

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_00]: not to mention the mainstream media outlets, to censor a great deal of information.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So this first article is a reminder of not only what has been called for in this country,

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_00]: but what is happening in other countries and a warning about the fact that we should stand up

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_00]: as we do for free speech. We'll be right back.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Two Points with Kirby Anderson.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_00]: The remote dangers of cosmetics, pesticides and secondhand smoke,

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_00]: they downplay the immediate dangers of hard drugs including fentanyl.

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Mental illness is another reason for homelessness.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_00]: While there are 52 million people that suffer from mental illness,

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_00]: about 13 million adults are seriously mentally ill.

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_00]: A significant percentage of them are now on the streets because of policies

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_00]: that force their release from psychiatric hospitals.

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And people with serious mental illness are more likely to be homeless,

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_00]: more likely to interact with drug dealers and more likely to be victimized.

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_00]: His book reminds us that to deal with a problem of homelessness,

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_00]: we need to look at root causes, not just symptoms.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Kirby Anderson and that's my point of view.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Back once again, let's have a cam talk for a few more minutes about everything from free speech

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_00]: to one of the issues that I think will surface in the debate tomorrow night.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll get into some of that and then we'll have a chance to hear from Irwin Lutzer

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_00]: and a little bit later Jonathan Sines and we'll get back to some of those issues.

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And as you heard me read from Robert Knight, I think it's possible some of you said,

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_00]: well is that an overreaction?

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And at some times you have to ask whether or not there's hyperbole.

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, in just a minute I'm going to talk about a little bit of hyperbole used by Donald Trump.

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_00]: What? Surprised me. Oh yes, of course.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_00]: But the bottom line is there are some really troubling signs.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_00]: There was a column in the Washington Post for example that said,

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Western government until recently generally did not regard social media

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and the vision of free speech.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_00]: They promote it as being fundamentally at odds with democracy.

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But the author then concluded they do now feel that way.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I mentioned just a minute ago, Robert Knight, former labor secretary,

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_00]: who said it really in the article in The Guardian,

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_00]: in case you would like to find the original article,

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_00]: thought it was maybe time to rein in Elon Musk,

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_00]: recognized because he bought Twitter now called X.

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_00]: That is not governed by the same kind of mindset as the other social media

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and said that regulators around the world should threaten Elon Musk with arrest.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Those are his words. Okay, let's take two more.

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_00]: You have two articles in The New York Times.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_00]: The first wondered if the First Amendment is out of control.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not making this up.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And another one said the Constitution is sacred.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Is it also dangerous?

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So I can give you examples from The New York Times.

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I can give you examples from The Washington Post.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I can give you an example from The Guardian.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I can give you examples from individuals that have served in previous administrations.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_00]: How about a Supreme Court justice?

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that would be the Supreme Court Justice,

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Conjie Brown Jackson.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_00]: You might remember where in that particular case that was brought before the court,

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_00]: she complained that the First Amendment was hamstringing the government.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Those are her words, hamstringing the government.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I like to point out in a commentary I've got coming out next week

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_00]: that is actually the purpose of the First Amendment.

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually the purpose of all of the Bill of Rights.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So when some people hear this, they might think, well, maybe you just overreact a little bit.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, just look at the kind of articles being written,

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_00]: the kind of statements being made,

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_00]: and of course what's been happening in other countries.

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I did mention David Horsany, so I thought I'd mention real quickly

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_00]: that he did point out that the Brazilian Supreme Court actually ruled,

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_00]: and this is unanimously, the decision by justices to shut down Elon Musk's ex

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_00]: over misinformation.

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And so if you are in Brazil, you have no access to ex.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_00]: You have no access to Twitter.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_00]: You may have access to Facebook and all sorts of other social media, but not that.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And so again, there is a real attempt, not just in Brazil,

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_00]: but I mentioned of course what is happening in Europe to cut down.

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_00]: David Horsany puts it this way,

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_00]: in Europe the free expression is ostensibly protected by the Constitution.

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the right is contingent upon national security, territorial disorder,

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_00]: crime, health and another very malleable issues

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_00]: that ultimately allow police officers in the United Kingdom and in Germany

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_00]: to show up your door and throw you in prison if you actually post some of those things on social media.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And he says, as the late Supreme Court Justice,

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Anthony Scalia once pointed out, every banana republic has a bill of rights.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_00]: The question is how close are we to being one?

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And so again, these tech companies have been really unencumbered

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_00]: by some of the regulations that govern so many other groups and organizations and associations.

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And so again, you have to understand that when, as he points out,

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_00]: corporations spend tens of millions of dollars each year in Washington rent seeking

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and lobbying for favorable regulations,

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_00]: taking marching orders from state officials and giant federal bureaucracies,

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_00]: again, to actually decide what is permissible speech, we have a big problem.

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And so his argument is if presidential candidates really cared about democracy,

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_00]: they'd be advocating anti-cronyism laws and forbidding government officials

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_00]: from interfering with or pressuring private entities on speech.

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to be hearing over the next, I guess it's about eight weeks,

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_00]: that what's on the ballot is abortion, what's on the ballot is immigration,

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_00]: what's on the ballot is the economy.

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_00]: But I will suggest to you one of the things on the ballot is free speech,

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think we should be concerned.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_00]: But real quickly before we take a break and spend some time talking with Dr. Erwin Lutzer,

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I would think you would probably be hearing about this for the first time.

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_00]: If you're a little bit nerd like me and watched the actual speech given by Donald Trump

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_00]: the other day at the Economic Club of New York, then you would know this.

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_00]: But you may for the first time be hearing that one of the things that candidate

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_00]: or former president Donald Trump would like to do is actually have Elon Musk

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_00]: run a government efficiency commission.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's our second article, this article written by the editors

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_00]: of the Wall Street Journal talked about his speech the other day

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_00]: in front of the Economic Club of New York, which they thought some of it was good,

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_00]: things like deregulation taxes, some were bad tariffs,

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_00]: and some were kind of incoherent like child care.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_00]: But they thought one of the best ideas was Elon Musk has actually agreed to at least

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_00]: head up the government efficiency commission.

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And the idea would be that as Donald Trump said,

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_00]: the first order of business this commission will develop an action plan

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_00]: to totally eliminate fraud and improper payments within six months.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_00]: This will save trillions of dollars, trillions he says.

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And of course the editors of the Wall Street Journal say,

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_00]: well that's typical Trump hyperbole, but there's no doubt they say

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_00]: that we could save from that.

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And those of you that are a little bit older might remember

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_00]: when we actually did to that in a very significant way.

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_00]: This goes all the way back to the 1980s.

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way I really would commend to you the movie Reagan right now

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_00]: because I think it does accurately portray so much of the Reagan administration.

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_00]: But when Ronald Reagan was in office, there was what was called the Grace Commission.

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And when I first actually started doing a guest host appearance on Point of View,

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I think I even started doing some commentaries about the Grace Commission.

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It was called that because Peter Grace of Grace Company actually came together

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_00]: and tried to figure out are there some ways that we can make government more efficient?

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Are there ways in which we can eliminate waste and fraud?

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And they made 2400, almost 2500 recommendations.

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And as a result that would have saved at the time $424 billion.

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_00]: That's back when a dollar was worth something.

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And although not all of it was implemented, some of it was.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And I thought it was a good illustration of the fact that we have had some commissions in the past

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_00]: that have actually been able to streamline government.

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_00]: There are some other things associated with that as well.

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But we certainly have to recognize that so much of government just sort of runs on its own, runs on autopilot.

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_00]: There's an old Ronald Reagan joke about the closest thing to eternal life is a government program.

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And there was another joke about that time that there was a person

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_00]: that worked in the agricultural department who was very unhappy because he said my farmer died.

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we have a lot of programs that run on autopilot.

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_00]: The editor of the Wall Street Journal say, does anybody really think federal job training works

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_00]: or the Job Corps or even Pentagon procurement?

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Remember we used to have $600 hammers and all those kinds of things.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that you don't just think this is a Republican issue, let's give partial credit to Bill Clinton

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_00]: because when he was in office, he actually had the vice president,

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_00]: that would be Al Gore at the time, on a mission to reinvent government.

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_00]: The sad reality is one of the most significant suggestions was a reform of the Federal Air Traffic Control.

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_00]: But as soon as the various unions went after Clinton and Gore, that kind of ended.

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So some are good ideas that never get implemented.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But if you go back to the 1980s, there was at least one good idea that actually made a difference.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And of course, if you were watching again the particular presentation by Donald Trump the other day

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_00]: before the Economic Club, he reminded us that his argument when he came into office in 2019,

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_00]: was it 2017, I guess it would be, that he actually wanted to get rid of two old regulations

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_00]: for every new one that's implemented.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_00]: This time he's up the ante to 10 old ones getting rid of before one is implemented.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So he's given a lot of specificity in terms of taxes and all the rest.

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_00]: But one of the things you probably will hear him mention tomorrow night

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_00]: is the idea of a government efficiency commission.

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And putting a person like Elon Musk in charge of that might really work

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_00]: because number one, he's not necessarily beholden to government in one sense,

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_00]: but he is beholden to government in another because he's benefited from some of the government grants.

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So he might have a better understanding of how to actually run the government

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_00]: and some things that could be changed.

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's just an interesting proposal that was announced this week

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and will probably be announced tomorrow night in the debate.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, I have a lot more to talk about that debate,

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_00]: but we're going to take a little bit of a pause

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and spend some time talking about the eclipse of God with Dr. Erwin Lutzer,

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_00]: that coming up right after this.

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_03]: It almost seems like we live in a different world from many people in positions of authority.

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_03]: They say men can be women and women men.

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_03]: People are prosecuted differently or not at all depending on their politics.

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Criminals are more valued and rewarded than law-abiding citizens.

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_03]: It's so overwhelming, so demoralizing.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_03]: You feel like giving up, but we can't.

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_03]: We shouldn't. We must not.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_03]: As Winston Churchill said to Britain in the darkest days of World War II,

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_03]: never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never yield to force,

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_03]: never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's what we say to you today.

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_03]: This is not a time to give in,

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_03]: but to step up and join Point of View in providing clarity in the chaos.

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_03]: We can't do it alone, but together with God's help we will overcome the darkness.

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[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_03]: You are listening to Point of View.

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[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And now here again is Kirby Anderson.

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to be talking about this new book coming out tomorrow,

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_00]: The Eclipse of God, Our Nation's Disastrous Search for a More Inclusive Deity

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and What We Must Do About It, written by Dr. Erwin Lutzer,

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_00]: forward by Al Moeller, as well as endorsed by such people as Frank Turek

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and Jack Graham and Jack Hibbs and Skip Heisick and Natasha Crane,

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_00]: as well as Alex McFarland and many other people that have been on the program with us.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, Dr. Lutzer is the author of such books as We Will Not Be Silenced, No Reason to Hide.

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_00]: He is the Pastor Emeritus of Moody Church, where he served as Senior Pastor for 36 years.

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_00]: He's an award-winning author and a featured speaker on three different radio programs.

[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And Dr. Erwin Lutzer, welcome back to Point of View.

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Kirby, it's so good to be with you, and thank you so much for having me this afternoon.

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And I know that we're going to be talking about some very important things.

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about the objectives.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_00]: We have this book, 280 pages, 11 chapters, and we'll break it into two sections,

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_00]: because one of the sections is searching for light in the world of darkness.

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_00]: The other is returning to the God of our fathers.

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_00]: But this idea of eclipse of God, first of all, important,

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_00]: because it gets us into the fact that all of us have seen a solar eclipse,

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_00]: a lunar eclipse or something of that nature.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_00]: But we really are covered in darkness right now, aren't we?

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, when the moon comes between the earth and the sun, we have an eclipse.

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And what I say in the first chapter is that the moon of secularism has obscured the light of God.

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_01]: This happened to ancient Israel.

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Remember in chapter 59 of Isaiah, where the Lord says,

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So as we look at America, we can see this eclipse, darkness.

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_01]: But of course, we're to be light in the midst of the darkness.

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_01]: You also asked me, and I'd like to just comment very quickly on the purpose of the book.

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I first of all deal with the intellectual roots of the darkness.

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm sure you'll want to get into that.

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And then what I do is I also remind people of the sovereignty of God.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And in the midst of our polarization, we have to remember that God is God.

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, when Isaiah went into the temple, it says,

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I saw the Lord high and lifted up and his train filled the temple.

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_01]: God was saying the throne of Israel is empty, but the throne in heaven is well occupied.

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And we need to remind ourselves of that.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I talk about the repentance of the church and the responsibility of the church in standing against the darkness.

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's what happens throughout this book.

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_01]: It's really my heart saying we have to get back to the God of the Bible and not the gods of popular culture.

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, again, intellectual roots as well as God is sovereign and stands ready to give us a blessing.

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And also the fact that we must be repentant and submissive.

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_00]: The intellectual roots very easy because you talk about three grave diggers.

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And that, of course, is certainly Karl Marx, Charles Darwin and Sigmund Freud.

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Oftentimes we say Charles Darwin told us where we came from.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Mark's telling us where we're going.

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And Sigmund Freud tells us who we are.

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And thus, in some respects, attempted to eliminate the answers that the Bible has given us about those three very important issues.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and the reason I refer to them as grave diggers, as you well know, Nietzsche said we have declared that God is dead.

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And then he says, can you hear the noise of the grave digger?

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So I wondered who the grave diggers might be.

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, Marx.

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, Marx saw oppression as the key to history.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Take away the oppression.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_01]: People will even live without laws.

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_01]: He saw the family as oppressive.

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Men oppressed their wives.

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Parents oppressed their children.

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_01]: They took them to church and God was the ultimate oppressor.

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Remove the oppression.

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Let the proletariat rule.

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And oh my, you're going to have sweetness and harmony.

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, how did that work out?

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_01]: But the one I want to, because we have so much to cover, the one I want to also zero in on is Darwin.

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_01]: In my book, I quote Darwin as saying that the baboon is our grandfather.

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, Kirby, we just have to take a deep breath.

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_01]: If the baboon is our grandfather, if we came up through the animal world, what that means is there's no argument against abortion, euthanasia,

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_01]: no argument against infanticide.

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_01]: We do that with animals and we are animals maybe a little further along in the continuum.

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_01]: The only basis for human rights, and I argue this later in the book, is the biblical view of the creation of man in God's own image.

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Darwinism, of course, led to eugenics,

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_01]: the killing of the inferior people so that the evolutionary process could be speeded along.

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Hitler loved it.

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_01]: You read some of Hitler's Mein Kampf and you know that he, through his advisors, was acquainted with Darwin.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And Darwin even said there were some tribes that were still closer to monkeys than humans.

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_01]: We must understand that once you accept Darwinism, you have no basis for human rights.

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And something very interesting, when the animal rights movement wants to take animals and lift them to our level,

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_01]: they actually drag us down to the level of animals.

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_01]: It is so important that people understand that and go back to the Bible.

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And then Freud. Well, Freud believed that sexual pleasure was the highest thing that one could experience in happiness.

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So he believed there should be no restrictions.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And I show how this even opened the door to pedophilia.

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_01]: After all, why should children be denied this pleasure?

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So we are reaping the huge impact of these thinkers, and they have contributed greatly to our darkness.

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And Nietzsche even had a funeral for God and said that God was dead.

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_00]: One of the things I did want to talk about is you have a chapter here about worshipping at the shrine of self-made deities,

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_00]: because the next step of that is, is that if evolution is a kind of idolatry and psychotherapy is idolatry and Marxism is idolatry,

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_00]: ultimately it comes back to something else. And that is we no longer let God be God because we become God, don't we?

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what influenced me to write this book was an article in The Economist that says that God is becoming as liberal as we are.

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And the online version was entitled Mirror My God to Me.

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why you asked about that chapter.

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And then while I'm on the topic of that article, it also says nobody believes in the smitey almighty of the Old Testament.

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So I have a chapter on the smitey almighty and the unity between the New Testament, whether or not God is more tolerant.

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_01]: But back to Mirror My God to Me.

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Very quickly, what happens is this. You have human consciousness now becoming God.

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So you have people saying, oh, I'm into spirituality, but I don't believe anything specific.

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Really? What that means is you are God.

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And isn't it convenient that you can have your God, I can have my God, but we all believe in some kind of a higher power, which turns out to be human consciousness.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's a verse in Isaiah that just nails it. When it's talking about false religion, it says this.

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a man who goes to bed hungry, dreams that he is eating, but then he wakes up and he's hungry still.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Or he goes to bed thirsty, believes in a dream that he is drinking and wakes up and is thirsty still.

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_01]: We have to weep for this generation. And I talk about various authors there that say that God's will is whatever your will is because in effect you are God.

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So you can imagine the confusion that exists in these kinds of things.

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And that, of course, is true of contemporary society.

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's take a break and we come back. We're going to talk about the second section, returning to the God of our fathers, returning to the God of truth, not truthiness, as well as this idea of returning to the God of moral absolutes, not our own personal preferences.

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_00]: But I just might mention that some of these chapters, of course, get into conversations we've had before.

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_00]: My booklet on heresy and progressive Christianity relates to that, as well as the interviews we've done in the past on some of these issues, like with Paul Copan about whether or not we have a smitey almighty God and some things of that nature.

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is very well written, and I think it would be very helpful for you to understand in these six chapters in the first part of the book about how we got to where we are today and all the moral and theological confusion.

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_00]: But when we come back from the break, let's if we can talk about returning the God of our fathers, because there are five very good chapters will probably dip into two of those.

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you find yourself saying, I'd really like to get a copy of this book. It's all again one of those ones we're going to recommend during our truth team.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_00]: It is called The Eclipse of God, our nation's disastrous search for a more inclusive deity.

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_00]: That's written by Irwin Lutzer coming out tomorrow, published by our friends at Harvest House. We'll be right back.

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_02]: You're listening to Point of View, your listener supported source for truth.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_00]: The dinner conversation today with Dr. Irwin Lutzer. I might just mention the Eclipse of God is also has a forward by Al Mohler, and I think you will appreciate that as well.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_00]: We've been talking about, of course, his excellent diagnosis of the problem.

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_00]: But now maybe we'll move into the prescription and you will probably be hearing quite a bit about this book because I plan to do some commentaries on it.

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And now that we've had a chance to do an interview on the book and it will be out tomorrow.

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It is published by Harvest House, about 280 pages, 11 chapters.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_00]: But Dr. Lutzer, let's get into returning to the God of truth, not truthiness.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_00]: People might say truthiness. Well, that turns out to be a word that a Marion Webster, a dictionary publishing company, chose as their word of the year.

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And truthiness, according to them, is the idea that something sort of seems true.

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_00]: It's claimed to be true, but there may not be supporting facts or evidence, but because we feel that it should be true.

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And at a time when most people say I feel rather than I believe or I feel and I'm not rather than I'm convicted or convinced, it does seem to me that we live in a world of truthiness, don't we?

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_01]: We really do. And, you know, that is a critical chapter.

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_01]: What I try to do in that chapter is to help parents to understand why it is that when they send their child to university or college, the children come back and the parents say they don't think the way we do.

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_01]: No, they sure don't.

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Because as you said, what has happened is transferred the idea of objective truth.

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_01]: It used to be, you know, back in the days before men couldn't have babies.

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_01]: It used to be that we all believed in objective truth.

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_01]: We argued as to whether or not we should get there, how we should get there.

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_01]: But today there is no such thing as objective truth.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Subjective truth is now what is in me.

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_01]: That's why I have my truth and you have your truth.

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Now where this leads is I have examples, for example, in history in the book where you should never tell a student that he's wrong because history has become therapy.

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, the suggestions are listed there.

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Why don't you say, you know, oh, that's a thought or hang on to that or I've never thought of that before.

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And so everyone has their own interpretation.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_01]: This is why deconstruction is so important, because the issue is no longer the issue of what does the text say, but rather to what it says to me.

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And people go to university today not so much in order to learn objective facts and objective truth,

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_01]: but rather to have the opportunity to express who they are on their inside.

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And you had better accept me and my lifestyle or else you're bigoted and so forth.

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_01]: One other thing I have to throw in here, there's so much because I go on to give five characteristics of biblical truth.

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_01]: But there's speech codes in university.

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I quote one university that says you shouldn't use the word field because it reminds people of those who worked in the fields.

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_01]: You shouldn't use the word America because that will offend some people on and on.

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, once again, deep breath. What's happening there?

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_01]: The intention is not to elevate the discussion.

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_01]: That the intention is to silence it and students self censor themselves.

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_01]: They have no idea what's right.

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Can you still go into a restaurant and ask for a menu?

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Or is that a concession to toxic masculinity?

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_01]: People have no idea.

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So you have liberal ideas that are supported.

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Conservative ideas are cut out and students are misled.

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And truth becomes whatever I want it to be.

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. Well, another related chapter is of course returning to the God of moral absolutes, not our personal preferences.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I might just also mention that you end each chapter with some very concrete action steps.

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_00]: But again, if indeed there is no belief in a god, then obviously as you talk about, there are limits to human wisdom.

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And there are problems with individuals trying to go about constructing a worldview without biblical revelation.

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, Kirby, this is maybe the most philosophical of the chapters because what I do is I show where atheism leads, of course, to no morality, whatever.

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And I show that atheists can be moral because they're created in the image of God.

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_01]: But out of atheism, no morality, whatever can possibly arise.

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's what leads us there.

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_01]: But the other thing I point out is that in the evolutionary scale, when you stop to think of it, we are not just simply matter.

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, protons, electrons.

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_01]: We are actually thinking beings.

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And I argue that in an evolutionary world, you can't suddenly have these molecules bouncing around and they create consciousness.

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So you want to ask somebody when did matter, you know, become conscious?

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_01]: The only answer is, of course, creation.

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And the only answer is the God of creation.

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, because we're so limited in time, I want to go on the next chapter.

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it is where I talk about law and how law has to be based on transcendent values.

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I point out where the Nazis were tried in Nuremberg, where I was just a few months ago.

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I was actually in the room where they were tried.

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_01]: But the question was, what shall we base law on?

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_01]: The Germans argued they didn't break any laws.

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_01]: They were just following the laws of Germany.

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Hitler had made the Jews untermensch, subhuman.

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_01]: So to kill them, there was no reprisal.

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And an attorney in America, an American attorney, Robert Jackson, gave a speech in which he showed that there are some laws

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_01]: that have to be based on transcendent values applicable to all cultures.

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And I show in the book why it is so necessary to believe that those laws have to come from outside the universe.

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_01]: They come to us from God because like water cannot arise above its source in the very same way,

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_01]: you cannot have transcendent values coming from the human situation.

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So there I argue the absolute need.

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to give a quick verse, 59 verse 14 of Isaiah.

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Justice stands back.

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Righteousness is not allowed to enter because truth has stumbled in the public square.

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_01]: When there is no truth, justice becomes whatever people want it to be.

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_01]: There's environmental justice, which is the Green New Deal, marriage justice, which of course is same sex marriage,

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_01]: economic justice, which is socialism.

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody comes up with their own theory.

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_01]: That's why it's so necessary for law to be based on transcendent, revealed biblical values.

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Again, the book is entitled The Eclipse of God.

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Since we were talking about Nazi Germany, I would again commend to you the book by Erwin Lutzer, Hitler's Cross.

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, we've mentioned some of the others one minute after you die.

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_00]: No reason to hide will not be silenced.

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, Christ among other gods and the church in Babylon and many, many other books.

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I've got a whole shelf of Erwin Lutzer books, and this is one I would commend to you.

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Dr. Lutzer, this is, I think, certainly a book that you wanted to come out during this time

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_00]: because if we do not have an election, if we don't win an election, we don't win the culture war,

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_00]: then some of the comments that you've made in the past and warnings about persecution

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_00]: certainly could be on the horizon.

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_00]: That's why we need to read this book and apply it to our lives.

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I thank you for joining us, and I look forward to the next opportunity.

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much, Kirby, and God bless you in your wide ministry.

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Let me just mention that you will be hearing more about this.

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I always like to wait till I've done the interview before I do some of the commentaries

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_00]: because sometimes I get some new insight in that regard.

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think this is a book that we will be recommending along the way.

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_00]: It is a book you're going to be hearing me quote from,

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_00]: and it has just all sorts of great material that Dr. Erwin Lutzer has put together.

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_00]: It is published by Harvest House.

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_00]: You can start looking for it in your local bookstore.

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_00]: It's supposed to come out tomorrow, but we have a link so you can get it in paperback or Kindle.

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_00]: It's all available at the website, pointofview.net.

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Stay tuned. We have more. We'll cover that right after this.

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