Point of View September 5, 2024 – Hour 2 : End the Stalemate

[00:00:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Broadcast Live from KYCC, Stockton, CA

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_00]: shooter but I thought I would mention it again because it is a refrain that is

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_00]: very disturbing. That is that we now know that the FBI had been paying attention

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_00]: to this individual at the age of 14 and again you just have to say what is going

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_00]: on at that particular age and so that is a real concern and we have heard this

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_00]: before. We wish there was some way that we could begin to move into those

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_00]: individuals lives because they are already demonstrating that they are

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_00]: dangerous and this in particular case led to the loss of these individuals

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_00]: killed four victims including two students and two teachers in this

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_00]: particular area which is about 45 miles northeast of Atlanta and the FBI's

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Atlanta division disclosed that about a year and a half ago they had received

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_00]: some anonymous tips concerning online threats about the idea of committing a

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_00]: school shooting and you wonder how many other individuals that need to be

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_00]: investigated. I certainly believe in the rights of individuals to have free speech

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_00]: and the rights of individuals to enjoy the benefits of living in a free society

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_00]: but this is what sometimes happens when that much freedom is given to

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_00]: individuals who are posing a danger either to themselves or to others so I

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_00]: did want to mention that again it is probably a conversation we'll have in

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_00]: the future and I thought it was also relevant that since we today are talking

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_00]: about a school shooting in Georgia to go back very quickly and revisit this

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_00]: shooting that took place in Nashville Tennessee. This was the shooting of course

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_00]: that took place at the Covenant School there in Nashville. As a matter of fact I

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_00]: knew of some of the individuals because they had actually been in the Dallas

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_00]: area before that and we now have this manifesto from this trans identifying

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_00]: school shooter and as we now can read through that and if you have seen some

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_00]: of these articles I don't recommend it for the faint-hearted but the kinds of

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_00]: things this person was saying again it illustrates that this was not a random

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_00]: shooting this was not a random act of violence but it was a targeted shooting

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_00]: it was an anti-christian hate crime it was an individual that expressed clear

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_00]: anger and disdain for Christianity for her parents biblical beliefs the

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_00]: children she attacked at the Covenant School this was due in large part

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_00]: because of this idea really if you will radical ideological agenda and for months

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_00]: we've been told by the authorities that this manifesto could not be released

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_00]: the FBI even claimed that it was too dangerous for the public to see when have

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_00]: they ever said that before and I think it's now becoming more and more clear

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_00]: that they wanted to protect the narrative they wanted to actually shield

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_00]: us from some of the kinds of things that people that are part of the trans

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_00]: movement I'm not blaming everyone I'm not painting with a broad brush but

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_00]: certainly this individual and others like this individual and that scrutiny

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_00]: which is now available if you want to actually read the manifesto or even read

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_00]: some stories about it is just a reminder of there are reasons why we have

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_00]: shootings and it isn't just the proliferation of guns as people that are

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_00]: against the Second Amendment one will argue but it has to do with some of the

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_00]: thoughts and ideas in the minds of individuals just before we take a break

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and we spend some time with Sean McDowell I thought I'd mention that one

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_00]: other article we have posted and it has to do with the statements that Kamala

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Harris has made about reparations I just last hour if you happen to be with us

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_00]: talked about some of the statements she's made about the need for us to

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_00]: control social media understand that that has been something that has been

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_00]: easily identifiable in the Biden administration and also use the example

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_00]: of what is now coming out of Brazil and what I suspect is going to be coming out

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_00]: of the EU the European Union soon but another question that I think the press

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_00]: just refuses to ask is simply this what does Kamala Harris believe about the

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_00]: issue of reparations now you might say well she probably no longer believes

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_00]: that but no one asked the question so you have the opportunity as I've pointed

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_00]: out before to have either no statement made or an anonymous staffer make the

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_00]: statement that no longer does she believe in that when you have very clear

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_00]: statements that she made it before first of all in her first run for

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_00]: president she actually was asked about the whole issue of reparations in for

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_00]: example a journal called brute she says I think there should be some form of

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_00]: reparations and we can discuss what that was she also promised Reverend Al

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Sharpton that she would sign a law that would have a measure that would at

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_00]: least create a reparations study commission and then even in that article

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_00]: said look we're looking at more than 200 years of slavery we're looking at almost

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_00]: 100 years of Jim Crow we're looking at legalized segregation in fact

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_00]: segregation is so many levels that exist today based on race and goes on with a

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_00]: long kind of diatribe about the evil of America and the reason why we need to

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_00]: provide some kind of reparations for African-Americans and then of course

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_00]: now that she's running for president you have a number of individuals that

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_00]: haven't been talking about reparations very much because after all that may be

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_00]: just part of a limited agenda but you have to go back to when she was a US

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_00]: senator and actually introduced a bill which was called lift the middle class

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_00]: act and lift stood for a livable income for families today and the lift act

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_00]: would have sent monthly payments of up to $500 to marital couples who work and

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_00]: have incomes above $6,000 a year and over above $100,000 and below $100,000

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and then when that lift issue was raised in some of the other interviews

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_00]: in Lagrio which is one of the black news and opinion sites she talks about

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_00]: the fact that we've had legalized discrimination and segregation and as a

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_00]: result that there is certainly the possibility of reparations and so then

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_00]: even in one of the interviews that she did during her 2019 campaign she

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_00]: appeared on what is called the breakfast Club this was to pitch the legislation

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and the host then listed that she had made her case about 200 years of slavery

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_00]: 100 years of Jim Crow and continuing racism in America and so the host said

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_00]: so are you for some type of reparations and said yes I am yes I am so again

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_00]: these are not the kinds of stories that are being covered by the mainstream

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_00]: press and of course we'll see if any of that comes up in the debate which will

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_00]: be taking place in a week from now but nevertheless these are some kinds of

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_00]: topics that I think need to be put on the table as well and if indeed you no

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_00]: longer believe in them okay tell us why first of all tell us that you don't

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_00]: second of all tell us why and those kinds of conversations simply are not

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_00]: taking place because just as we had four years ago kind of a basement strategy

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_00]: right now you have a kind of a teleprompter strategy and so one other

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_00]: article I posted for you is one where you can read it pass it on and evaluate

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_00]: it and see if that is something that might be helpful in the conversations

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_00]: you have with others let's take a break we'll talk with Sean Mcgill right after

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_00]: this this is viewpoints with Kirby Anderson Americans have been concerned

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_00]: about immigration and particularly about the lack of border security I

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_00]: wondered how the mainstream media would try to deflect the issue the New York

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Times published a report with the headline in JD Vance's backyard

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_00]: conspiracy theories about migrants and voting abound the headline of the

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Washington Post report proclaims that Republicans flood TV with misleading

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_00]: ads about immigration and the border in a recent commentary Rich Lowry explains

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_00]: that all of this represents not so much fact-checking by the press as narrative

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_00]: policing certain facts and opinions are deemed false or conspiracy theories

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_00]: based merely on their political inconvenience are illegal immigrants

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_00]: voting even the New York Times article admits that they are voting in local

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_00]: elections in mostly deep blue areas officials argue that they should be

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_00]: allowed to vote because they pay taxes well it doesn't take much imagination to

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_00]: see how that argument can be used to expand the voting franchise in fact the

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_00]: left-wing Center for American Progress argues that a pathway to citizenship is

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_00]: the only way to maintain electoral strength in the future

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_00]: the Washington Post article complains that the political ads create a false

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_00]: impression that migrants are flooding unchecked into the United States

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Rich Lowry asked a false impression what would it take to convince the post that

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_00]: migrants are flooding into this country the article also criticizes another

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_00]: political ad that mentions terrorists and prostitution

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Rich Lowry points out that there is an established fact that terrorists have

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_00]: been crossing the border and women have been sex trafficked across the border

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_00]: you know concerns about immigration and border security aren't conspiracy

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_00]: theories but well-documented facts

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Kirby Anderson and that's my point of view

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_02]: go deeper on topics like you just heard by visiting point of view dot net that's

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_02]: point of view dot net

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_01]: you're listening to point of view your listener supported source for truth

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_00]: again broadcasting live today from KYCC in Stockton California remote

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_00]: broadcast will be back in the studio there in Dallas on Friday but again

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_00]: we're going to be talking about this idea of a cancel culture we're all very

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_00]: aware of that and we live in a society today where there are arguments and

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_00]: discussions and politicized debates and the rest and nearly two-thirds of

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_00]: individuals in America say that they really just stay quiet about their

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_00]: belief due to fear of offending others

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_00]: we've talked about cyberbullying we've talked about hate speech we talked about

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_00]: harassment and the rest and so I'm always looking for books that address

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_00]: that issue and this one I highly recommend the end of our end the stalemate

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_00]: move past cancel culture to meaningful conversations is written by Dr. Sean

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_00]: McDowell and Tim Muehlhoff it is just out and he's a resource that I think

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_00]: you'll find helpful

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Sean McDowell of course no stranger to the conversations we have here is the

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_00]: associate professor of Christian apologetics at Biola University and

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Talbot School of Theology internationally recognized speaker and

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: author as well as the author of more than 20 books we are probably most

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_00]: familiar with him being the co-host of the Think Biblically podcast and also a

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_00]: popular YouTube channel that he talks about quite often as examples here in the

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_00]: book and Sean McDowell welcome back to Point of View.

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_04]: It's always good to be good with you my friend.

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's if we can maybe talk about why and one of the individual's that we

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_00]: interview and I was really encouraged that you quote him early on is Arthur

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Brooks of course we've known him when he was at the American Enterprise

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Institute and now at Harvard but we had him on a number of years ago where he

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_00]: was talking about the fact that we don't have just an anger problem in America we

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_00]: have a contempt problem and it does seem to me that that's one of the very

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_00]: significant reasons why you wrote this book is that we need to be individuals

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_00]: that are able to disagree without being disagreeable we should practice civility

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and this isn't a culture right now where oftentimes the people that we're

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_00]: interacting with maybe aren't necessarily following the golden rule but that

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_00]: doesn't mean that we shouldn't correct? I think Arthur Brooks nailed it with that

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_04]: when you think about not only with Christians and non-christians but within

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_04]: the church we don't think people are wrong about political issues or

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_04]: cultural issues. We tend to have contempt for them and in many cases that means we

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_04]: haven't really taken the time to understand why they believe what they

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_04]: believe. Now I differ with people and I think some issues we should have

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_04]: contempt for because they're just such bad issues out of bounds but most people

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_04]: have good reasons for what they believe and why they believe it even if those

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_04]: reasons are wrong. So part of what that tells me is we've lost the ability to

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_04]: understand people, we've lost the ability to communicate and as Christians can we

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_04]: really have a sense of contempt for brothers and sisters in Christ and for

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_04]: non-christians how does that help us love them? I might just mention that our

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_00]: 11 chapters in this book two different sections setting the stage so we'll

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_00]: spend a little bit of time on that and the rest of time on the practical tips

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_00]: for engaging others but in your first chapter you talk about this idea of a

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_00]: perfect storm you take that of course from the movie Perfect Storm but there

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_00]: were really four reasons that you've come up with and I thought those were

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_00]: very helpful reasons for why we're here. Some people look for a single reason oh

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_00]: it's social media or well there we are being attacked by people that are the

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_00]: elite but really it's been a series of things all sort of coming together that

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_00]: have given us this highly politicized culture can you explain? Yeah I think

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_04]: that's right I mean one of the storms is what I just the fact that people are

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_04]: hurting and broken today I mean anxiety and mental illness and depression and

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_04]: stress I mean these things are at like record highs across generations in many

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_04]: cases. The bottom line is when we're hurt we tend to act out of that hurt

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_04]: we've all heard it said hurt people hurt people so that's one factor here

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_04]: oftentimes when I hear somebody lash out and cancel somebody else I wonder where

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_04]: did that person learn how to treat others that way and how are they treated

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_04]: that way in their own life? I think that's one piece of it another one is we

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_04]: just have more clash in world views than we've ever had I mean there's more

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_04]: issues dividing us you know Kirby there was a day when my father used to say I'm

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_04]: going to defend the resurrection the Bible biblical sexuality and everybody

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_04]: is like let's go well now you gotta have a position on critical race theory got

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_04]: a position on vaccines got to have a position on gun control and if you don't

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_04]: we will cancel you and it's become clear recently that there's far more division

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_04]: within and outside the church from before. I think social media is another

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_04]: piece of this I mean it's built upon provocation and it's built upon

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_04]: angriness we're more likely to watch something and share something so that

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_04]: affects us and what we share and I think finally we have a cancel culture we've

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_04]: just lost how to communicate we've lost how to listen well we've lost how to

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_04]: reason well through issues we've lost how to just show empathy towards people

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_04]: you add all these factors together and frankly Kirby I'd be surprised if we

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_04]: didn't have a cancel culture like we have. I think you're absolutely right and

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_00]: of course we've talked about some of the reasons for that but what I think is also

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_00]: of concern and you already alluded to that is I don't expect non-Christians to

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_00]: act Christianly but I would expect Christians to act Christianly and so

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_00]: this comes back to the need for us maybe to teach which sometimes you talk about

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_00]: sympathetic awareness in other words to be willing to engage and first of all

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_00]: let me just pay you another high compliment you've had all sorts of

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_00]: people on your YouTube channel that and of course we've had some people on

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_00]: point-of-view too that couldn't agree with very much around the conversations

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_00]: we have around the table but I seems to me that one of the things we maybe need

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_00]: to start teaching inside the church and our Christian organizations is to be able

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_00]: to be a better listener be slow to speak and quick to listen and to have a little

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_00]: more empathy and sympathy don't you think? I think that's exactly right one

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_04]: of the things we sometimes think is that people are like brains on a stick

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_04]: they're just motivated by reason and evidence and logic we often miss that

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_04]: there's a backstory to why people believe what they believe and you know

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_04]: what what breaks down barriers is just being sympathetic towards people being

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_04]: compassionate towards people just trying to at least understand where they're

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_04]: coming from build bridges rather than walls and so rather than assuming we

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_04]: know what somebody else believes in why let's ask them and let's listen and

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_04]: I think we communicate better to people when we sympathetically

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_04]: understand where they're coming from and that's intellectually and emotively

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_04]: than kind of standing at a distance and not leaning in. Let me just mention this

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_00]: book is probably available at your local bookstore it's been out now for about a

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_00]: couple months and the stalemate and is published by Tyndale but if not we have

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_00]: information so you can get it paperback or Kindle and again we're going to spend

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_00]: some time talking about some of the practical tips in just a minute but

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_00]: before I get there let's be philosophical that is you have a whole

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_00]: section about worldview and I remember your dad used to say to you that look

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_00]: when you read an article you read a book I'll try to figure out what the

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_00]: assumptions are and so if we're going to apply some of those practical tips that

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_00]: we'll talk about maybe after the break we do need to kind of get the sense of

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_00]: where they coming from what's their worldview assumptions that are making

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_00]: them say some of those statements that may be ever getting our emotions up a

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_04]: bit. Well that's exactly right and I've told you this when I asked my dad in

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_04]: high school how do you build a Christian worldview he gave me some of your

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_04]: material at point of view and it was some of the first time on my life I'm

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_04]: like okay wait a minute we have assumptions about happiness we have

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_04]: assumptions about the meaning of life we have assumptions about how we're

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_04]: supposed to treat other people and oftentimes these assumptions aren't

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_04]: stated it's like they operate underneath the surface and we just take them for

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_04]: granted. That's true for us that's true for other people so every time I read an

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_04]: article watch a movie listen to a podcast and ask myself what are this

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_04]: person's assumptions and how do they shape what they're writing and what

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_04]: they're saying so I was just reading an article by Yuval Harari in New York Times

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_04]: best-selling author and he's a materialist he is an atheist so he denies

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_04]: that there's such a thing as human rights and so when I'm reading his

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_04]: article that should inform everything about he thinks that there's no such

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_04]: thing as the soul there's no free will and you know human rights are not a real

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_04]: objective thing you can find like you can find blood inside the body and so

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_04]: just knowing that worldview going in shapes do I read that but that's also

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_04]: true engaging with people. I want to know what's this person's backstory what do

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_04]: they not just say they believe but what do they really believe and when I can

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_04]: get to some of that backstory then I think we can make real headway in

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_00]: relationship and on issue. Let's take a break Sean McDowell with us again Dr.

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Sean McDowell an individual that I think you certainly should follow you can go

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_00]: to his website SeanMcDowell.org we of course have all sorts of links to his

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_00]: social media I would highly recommend his YouTube channel and we're talking

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_00]: about the book The End of Stalemate Move Past Cancel Culture to Meaningful

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Conversations I think you will find this book extremely helpful it's one that

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_00]: we're going to recommend more than once here on Point of View and we'll take a

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_00]: break be back with more right after this. It almost seems like we live in a

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_02]: different world from many people in positions of authority they say men can

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_02]: be women and women men people are prosecuted differently or not at all

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_02]: depending on their politics criminals are more valued and rewarded than law

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_02]: abiding citizens it's so overwhelming so demoralizing you feel like giving up

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_02]: but we can't we shouldn't we must not as Winston Churchill said to Britain in

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_02]: the darkest days of World War two never give in never give in never never never

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_02]: never yield to force never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_02]: enemy and that's what we say to you today this is not a time to give in but to

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_02]: step up and join Point of View in providing clarity in the chaos we can't

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_02]: do it alone but together with God's help we will overcome the darkness invest

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_02]: in biblical clarity today at Point of View dot net or call 1-800-347-5151

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Point of View dot net and 800-347-5151

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Point of View will continue after this

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_02]: listening to Point of View

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_02]: the opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_02]: the management or staff of this station and now here again is Kirby Anderson

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_00]: continue our conversation today on the book and the stalemate by Dr. Sean

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_00]: McDowell and Tim Muehlhoff and I might just mention that Preston Sprinkle says

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_00]: one of the most important books I've read this year

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Karen Swallow Prior has been on the program with us many times a

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_00]: knowledgeable and helpful resource for recovering not only the lost art of

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_00]: meaningful conversation but perhaps even our own humanity and Sean we were

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_00]: talking about this idea of worldview and I thought I'd introduce a new word for

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_00]: our listeners today, bricolage, because your co-author Tim talks about how that

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_00]: helps us understand how people pierce or piece together a worldview because

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_00]: worldviews made up of a lot of different pieces that come into the way

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_00]: in which people approach even the kind of discussion and debate we're talking

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_04]: about. Yeah this is actually one of my favorite chapters in the book because I

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_04]: have a chapter the kind that you and I have spoken on and written on for years

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_04]: about what a worldview is, why it's important, how it shapes the way we live

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_04]: and act and then Tim Muehlhoff added a chapter what he calls bricolage which

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_04]: is how we put a worldview together. When you and I talk about worldview it's

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_04]: tempting for people to think well you just analyze ideas and you think about

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_04]: it and you build it logically and what Tim points out in this chapter is that

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_04]: people have what he calls bricolage building worldviews through

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_04]: relationships that they have with people, through experiences that they have,

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_04]: through hurt that they have and that helps us realize when somebody has put

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_04]: together a worldview typically unintentionally if we want to shape the

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_04]: way that person sees the world we've got to shape the backstory. So I'll give

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_04]: an example of this there's someone I talked about in the book a friend of

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_04]: mine he's an atheist calls himself an atheist New York media elite somewhat

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_04]: tongue-in-cheek writes for New York Times magazine the New Yorker we're

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_04]: gonna write another book together kind of point-counterpoint Christian atheists

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_04]: but I interviewed him on my YouTube channel and he talked about how he grew

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_04]: up in Greenwich Village Manhattan which is the hub of the sexual revolution and

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_04]: the hub of the LGBTQ movement. He said Sean I've never met an evangelical

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_04]: organically in my life and then he said probably 40% of the men he knew growing

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_04]: up were gay. Now most of your listeners presumably are Christians and would see

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_04]: issues of sexuality differently than he does but if you don't know any

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_04]: evangelicals and 40% of the people you know are gay that are men doesn't at

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_04]: least make sense that he sees the world as he does? Minimally we're trying to

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_04]: help Christians say there's a backstory to why people see the world as they do

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_04]: and when we understand that backstory like the Proverbs says the purposes in

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_04]: a man's heart are deep and a person of wisdom can draw it out knowing that

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_04]: backstory or trying to find that backstory just helps us more

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_04]: meaningfully engage people. Again I might just mention that that's one of the

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_00]: chapters a very good chapter chapter four and five but I thought we'd talk

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_00]: about some of the practical ideas and your chapter on engaging explosive

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_00]: issues. I love how you put that together because we need to have some principles

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_00]: for engagement so you talk about step one approach an issue for clarity then

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_00]: approach an issue with clarity and then finally approach an issue critically and

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_00]: it does seem to me that that's kind of a three-step process can you take us

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_00]: through that because that I think is key to then talking about whether we're going

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_00]: to use a straw man or steel man argument but to help us with the

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_04]: background information first. Yeah that three-step see kind of pattern you

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_04]: talked about came from a blog I wrote probably four years ago not long after

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_04]: COVID hit and critical race theory was a massive topic everybody was talking

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_04]: about. I remember thinking okay people seem to have their minds made up about

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_04]: this but I don't know how many people have really studied it and thought about

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_04]: it. How should a Christian approach something as explosive as this? So I said

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_04]: step one let's approach an issue with clarity in other words let's try to

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_04]: understand what the other side actually believes rather than setting up a straw

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_04]: man so if you want have clarity again on what critical race theory means read some

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_04]: original sources take a look at it yourself. The second one which is also

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_04]: a C is approach an issue with charity. Now I've read the Book of Mormon and the

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Quran and my temptation is to read it and look for contradictions or errors or

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_04]: mistakes because I don't believe it. I have to train myself to say you know

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_04]: what I want to read this for the same charity I would want a Latter-day Saint

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_04]: or a Muslim to read the New Testament and to read the Gospels so let's read

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_04]: something clearly. Let's read it charitably on its own term and then

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_04]: third the last C I gave is let's read something critically. I mean Proverbs 14

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_04]: 15 says the simple believes everything but the prudent gives thought to his

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_04]: steps so as Christians whatever the issue is I don't know vaccines or

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_04]: immigration or gun control or trans let's understand it clearly. Let's

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_04]: understand it charitably and then make sure like the brain can act chapter 17

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_04]: we filter it through a biblical lens and read it critically.

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And I just mentioned that as you take us through that three-step plan and how you

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_00]: begin to talk about clarity and charity as well as critically you also help us

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_00]: understand how we could actually go through that particular issue which is

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_00]: still an issue that we are dealing with in this day and that is the idea of

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_00]: critical race theory but I thought I'd also then want to move on to a chapter

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_00]: that you too wrote about that is presenting the other side and that is

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_00]: the distinction between a straw man argument and a steel man argument and you

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_00]: go each time I might just mention this isn't all just philosophical so

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_00]: sometimes both you and Tim give examples that you've dealt with but oftentimes

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_00]: when I'm engaged in a conversation with an individual could be on the radio could

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_00]: be out on the street could be over a coffee house or whatever I listen to

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_00]: their arguments and I'm thinking okay you're presenting a straw man that's not

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_00]: what I believe that is a caricature at best of what I or other evangelicals

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_00]: might believe but we sometimes are guilty of that as well and so I think it is

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_00]: important to recognize that not only should we be talking about making sure

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_00]: we avoid what would be considered a straw man argument we should also be

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_00]: thinking about okay a steel man argument what is their best argument and if I were

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_00]: to present that to them what they say yeah you did a good job of explaining my

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_00]: viewpoint so help us see the difference there because I think that is so key and

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_00]: for you and I and your father and others that have done debates that's a very

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_00]: important part of even preparing for a discussion or a debate or a dialogue I

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_04]: mean honestly Kirby this was a convicting chapter right because I've

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_04]: thought back on just my own life and thought you know what there are probably

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_04]: times where I responded to a straw man and didn't steel man somebody else's

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_04]: position I gotta get better at this because frankly you and I don't

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_04]: appreciate when somebody else sets up a straw man of our views like I can't I

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_04]: need a dollar every time I heard somebody say well pro-lifers all they

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_04]: want to do is control women's bodies and instantly I'm offended by that because

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_04]: that just completely misrepresents what the pro-life position is and they're

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_04]: responding something we don't believe that's what a straw man is it sets up a

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_04]: weak faulty view of what somebody else believes so it's easy to knock down

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_04]: we're encouraging people in the book to set up a steel man argument that not only

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_04]: takes what a person says and highlights its strength but even seeks to make it

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_04]: stronger asking questions like what's a fair description of the argument being

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_04]: made if I presented their argument back to them would they agree that it's

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_04]: accurate what's the best piece of evidence this person is presenting to

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_04]: support their view and that takes work that takes discipline but even at the

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_04]: end of the day Kirby you know if we steel man somebody's position and think

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_04]: they're wrong they're gonna feel like you know what you read our sources you

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_04]: care about what I said you respected me I disagree with you but I appreciate the

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_04]: way you engage minimally Christian should be to scrape material in this book

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_00]: the end of the stalemate and it is moved past cancel culture to meaningful

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_00]: conversations and we are talking of course about a few of the practical tips

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_00]: for engaging others the first five chapters deal with sort of setting the

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_00]: stage but some great material there as well on worldview and piecing piercing

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_00]: together and putting together a worldview and then a whole section on

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_00]: practical tips we're going to come back and get into a couple others one is the

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_00]: idea of creating a board of directors will explain what that means and one of

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_00]: the things I love about this book where again Sean and Tim have interacted with

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_00]: each other is that then there are questions that Tim asked Sean and

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_00]: questions that Sean asked Tim and then they put it all together and so if

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_00]: you're finding yourself in discussions or debates with family or friends and

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_00]: it's not going anywhere and you're saying I might just need to get some

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_00]: advice from people that do this on a pretty regular basis Sean of course being

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_00]: an associate professor Christian apologetics Tim being a professor of

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_00]: communications I think you'll benefit from this book and I would encourage you

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_00]: to look for it in your local bookstore if not we have a link on our website at

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_01]: point of view net we'll be right back listening to point of view back for a

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_00]: few more minutes as we broadcast today from KYCC in Stockton California we'll

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_00]: be back in Dallas tomorrow again talking about the book and the stalemate

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_00]: move past cancel culture to meaningful conversation Sean McDowell Tim

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Moynihan might just mention that the idea of creating a board of directors now

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_00]: it goes back to a previous chapter in which a quoting from a book called

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Tinker Toys the author says the board of directors is really a fantasy board of

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_00]: powerhouse business leaders and innovators who will assist you in

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_00]: overcoming your business challenges of course we can apply this to the area of

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_00]: apologetics and Sean I know that you have created what are the top books to

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_00]: give a non-christian of course you list you know more than a carpenter mere

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Christianity case for Christ many of those but I appreciated the fact that

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_00]: you also said you know if you're a non-christian is open to the Christian

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_00]: faith and I think you begin with scripture and Tim goes on to say you

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_00]: know he really appreciates again the suggestion of using the gospel but then

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_00]: mentions everything from CS Lewis's mere Christianity to Tim Keller and a variety

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_00]: of others and then a little bit later we get into Philippians a variety of other

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_00]: people that we've had on point of view but it does seem to me that if you're

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_00]: going to be an effective communicator there are certain resources that are

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_00]: available so give us an idea because if indeed we're going to be trying to be

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_00]: individuals that want to cultivate this idea of civility and being able to

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_00]: disagree without being disagreeable and take some of the principles in your book

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_00]: one key to that is certainly doing some background research so what would you

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_04]: recommend? Well one of the questions that I think might get to the heart of

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_04]: how people can use this in their relationships is simply to ask others

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_04]: who are the most important people that have shaped your life? I mean that's a

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_04]: fascinating question Kirby I don't even know that I've ever asked you that I

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_04]: would love to know now for me some of them are obvious my dad is at the top

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_04]: just his life his marriage his thinking he's in a category of his own we'd also

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_04]: put people like my college basketball coach Dave Holmquist you put my resident

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_04]: director Rob Lone you put people like William Lane Craig and JP Moreland and

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Greg Pockel obviously my wife well if you want to know the story of my life

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_04]: what I believe and why I do ask that question so I invite Christians to just

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_04]: ask other people who are the people that have most shaped and influenced

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_04]: your life and it's incredible that stories that come out and we're able to

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_04]: understand in the background how that person really thinks and sees the world

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_00]: that's so good and again my list would be similar to yours of course I wouldn't

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_00]: have your wife in there your basketball coach but many of those others would be the case

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_00]: but it is interesting because what you're talking about is those who

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_00]: minister to you sometimes intellectually sometimes spiritually

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_00]: sometimes you know like a basketball coach and I can think of my basketball

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_00]: coaches which I didn't have as great a relationship as you did all had an

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_00]: impact but it brings us down to another issue that runs through your book and I

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_00]: think it's time to mention it and that is the importance of relationships I

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_00]: learned long ago that rules without relationship leads to rebellion I think

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_00]: you've heard that before and it seems to me that if we're going to have an honest

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_00]: conversation with individuals we should have some relationship with them and of

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_00]: course that's the problem with social media people can just emote and

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_00]: interact and destroy you from a ad hominem argument but if we're going to

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_00]: be effective we need to be not only out thinking the culture but out loving the

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_00]: culture and that's something that sometimes is missing as you will know

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_00]: even when we talk about the era of apologetics you said out thinking and

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_04]: out loving and that balance is exactly right

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_04]: first lesson is Paul says we not only gave you the gospel which is truth but

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_04]: we gave you our very own lives which is relationship what's unique about

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Christianity is God just didn't send truth through a prophet or a book or

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_04]: nature or dreams he ultimately sent truth through the person of Jesus Christ

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_04]: so we could see truth in the flesh Christianity is an incarnational faith

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_04]: now I don't think in principle is anything wrong with social media or

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_04]: communicating in other ways Paul wrote letters and communicated from a distance

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_04]: but at the root of it there's something about being in the flesh with people and

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_04]: incarnating what it means to love somebody that's why I think people err

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_04]: on saying you know what I've got truth without relationship well then there are

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_04]: prophets who's probably just arrogant and rash and then there's some people say

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_04]: well I just want to love people in relationships without truth then they

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_04]: end up going the progressive liberal direction and compromising scripture

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_04]: rather it's both and that's all through Scripture in the warnings all through

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Ephesians I've been reading that book about knowing truth and discerning

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_04]: right from wrong and standing on solid doctrine and not being swayed but also

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_04]: loving other people that's the root of Christianity and so in this book we're

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_04]: talking about having conversations with people and discussing and debating ideas

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_04]: that we need in our cultural moment but when we do it in the context of a

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_04]: relationship more often than not it changes everything so good I just

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_00]: highly commend the book and of course each page I would turn to ago such good

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_00]: insight and of course we certainly appreciate you Sean in so many ways let

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_00]: me just before wind down talk about the fact that we have a link to Sean

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_00]: McDowell dot o-r-g so Sean McDowell dot o-r-g and again your videos right now

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_00]: answering the top 20 Bible questions of course there's the podcast which is

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_00]: think biblically but let me also encourage since we're broadcasting today

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_00]: interestingly enough from Stockton and KYCC in just a little over a week

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_00]: you're going to be right down the road in Modesto California so it's quite

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_00]: possible as people click on that schedule they are for our listeners in

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Tennessee our listeners in Missouri or of course our listeners in California

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_00]: they can come out and hear you speak and benefit from all the great wisdom that

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_00]: you provide there as well and of course you're traveling all over the country so

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_00]: if people are interested in your videos in your blog the podcast many of your

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_00]: books or knowing your schedule it's all available there at the website which is

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_00]: our website point of view dot net but of course you can go directly to Sean

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_00]: McDowell dot o-r-g and so Sean it has been always a great opportunity for us

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_00]: to learn from your wisdom and certainly want to be praying for you also I might

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_00]: just pray for your dad because I know he's been diagnosed with Alzheimer's and

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_00]: so you can pray for the McDowell family because we value the entire family so

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_00]: much so thank you for joining us today here on point of view

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_00]: we're going to take a break and say goodbye today from Stockton California

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_00]: let me just mention that we will be flying back so Pena Dexter will be on

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_00]: the helm on Friday she'll have Kelly Shackelford and Jeff Mateer and I might

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_00]: just say thank you to Liberty who is actually doing the program on Tuesday

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and Pena was hosting the program on Wednesday we're doing our live broadcast

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_00]: from here as well so if you find yourself saying well I'd like to know a

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_00]: little bit more about this book I'd like to go back maybe and hear one of these

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_00]: interviews that was done this week a Pena Dexter had Alan Unruh and Elaine

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Donnelly we had of course Richard Lim and Sean McDowell and all sorts of other

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_00]: guests you can certainly go to the website pointofview.net there's a red

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_00]: button there that says watch or listen and that is a way in which you can find

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_00]: some of that my viewpoints commentary is today on immigration conspiracy theories

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and the banner there gives you a chance to subscribe to the viewpoints

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_00]: commentaries if you don't already receive that just click on that button that

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_00]: says subscribe now you receive my commentaries in your inbox free of

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_00]: charge Monday through Friday Pena Dexter's on Saturday we have a video on

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_00]: voting your biblical duty we have an election central one last time we of

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_00]: course have events registration those of you that we're going to be seeing in

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_00]: about two weeks in Peoria Illinois make sure you sign up for that lots of things

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_00]: happening and you can find all of that at the website pointofview.net want to

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_00]: thank Steve and Megan down there in Dallas and Warren here in Stockton see

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_02]: back here tomorrow on Point of View. There is an old military saying if you

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_02]: don't have communications you don't have anything good information is the key to

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_02]: success not only for those in the military but for all of us you can't

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_02]: take positive productive and helpful action if you don't have good

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_02]: information point of view radios main role is to provide good information and

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_02]: we distribute that information not only here through our radio program but

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_02]: online and throughout various social media channels you know that big tech

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