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[00:00:04] Across America Live, this is Point of View. And now, Liberty McCarter. Thank you for spending your afternoon with us today here on Point of View. It's going to be an important show, a special show.

[00:00:27] And I do want to acknowledge that one year ago today, the nation received a tragic shock when Charlie Kirk was assassinated in Utah during a speaking engagement. It's hard to believe in some ways that a full year has already passed.

[00:00:46] And it's really special in a way for me to be sitting here with Point of View and the Round Table today because almost a year ago to the day, it was September 11th, we had a Next Generation Round Table already scheduled. And we had just received this tragic news about what happened to Charlie Kirk. And we were processing what that meant for our nation, for a generation of young Americans.

[00:01:13] And we were able to do that together here on Point of View. And so almost a year to the day, we are back together. And I'm very thankful that almost everybody that was co-hosting with me that day a year ago has been able to join again today. Josh Barnes is on the line. Alyssa Sonnenberg is on the line. Ethan Watson wasn't able to join us again today, but Richard Lim is going to join us a little bit later.

[00:01:37] And so I'm just very thankful for this time to reflect on where we have been as a nation in the last year and talk about where our hope truly lies and maybe where we're going into the future. But Josh Barnes is the host of The Bible Explained. He is a pastor and, of course, someone you know very well as a frequent co-host here on Point of View's Round Table. So, Josh, thanks so much for making the time to join us today. Yeah, it's always wonderful to be here with you, Liberty.

[00:02:04] And Alyssa Sonnenberg is with the Illinois Family Institute. I always appreciate her insight so much. Alyssa, thanks for being on Point of View today. And I'd love to start off by just reflecting and you can take it however you want to take it, whatever direction you want to take it. But, you know, a year ago we were concerned about political violence.

[00:02:25] We were also seeing very rapidly after the assassination happened what seemed to be a trend of young people all of a sudden wanting to get their life on the right track, to go to church, encouraged to give their life to the Lord. A lot has happened. So, thank you again for joining Point of View today. And what is kind of your prominent thought as you reflect on the past year?

[00:02:50] Yeah, I mean, I just, my mind goes back to a year ago today when I saw the news and, I mean, I hopped on a prayer call with some close friends, some of them colleagues. And I remember, you know, those hours so vividly. And I, my heart just goes out to Charlie Kirk today and her children. I can only imagine how difficult today is, how much of a nightmare it feels, how many memories are being replayed.

[00:03:18] And, you know, in the year that followed, I've been very saddened to see that initial boom of, you know, we saw so many people, you know, the following Sunday, the following two Sundays, even a month, you know, so many young people flocking to churches, wanting answers, wanting direction, wanting foundation. And, you know, maybe pastor, you could speak better to this than I can. But I've seen a definite decline in that.

[00:03:45] I've seen more virility online. I've seen more hostility. I've seen more just disgusting viewpoints online that have happened since that. I think, you know, Candace Owens has not helped that at all, given the conspiracy theories that she has leveled at Turning Point USA. And so I've been kind of sad to see some of the after effects of it. But in another sense, I've been happy to see some positives that has come out of that.

[00:04:15] You know, people who have had, you know, their Christian faith, it was just emboldened and strengthened by Charlie Kirk's assassination to remind us that this world is not our home, that we have a heavenly calling, that we have an eternal security in Jesus. And so for Christians, you know, it's been positive in the sense that we are rejoicing today, knowing that Charlie Kirk is in heaven right now with Jesus.

[00:04:44] He is not in pain. He is, his faith has made sight. And that's something that every Christian longs to have, longs to see. And so I think we can take away both positive and negative results from, you know, this past year. Yeah, yeah. Very insightful reflections, Alyssa. Josh, I remember last year when we were talking, you really couched the whole situation in the framework of spiritual warfare. And you called Charlie Kirk a martyr.

[00:05:14] And especially like the older he got, I think he only became more and more bold in proclaiming the Christian faith. And so I'd love to hear your reflections, responses to Alyssa and just where you see our situation now a year later. Yeah, it is hard to grasp the idea that it's been a year because it just doesn't seem that long. And it is, Alyssa is absolutely right.

[00:05:41] It's a little discouraging to see what has transpired in some segments of what we thought was the right in regards to Charlie Kirk and now viciously attacking Erica Kirk and those sort of things. But I am the eternal optimist.

[00:06:00] And so I really do think that the Charlie Kirk revival that we saw last year, though it seemed to be relatively short-lived, a month or two, I really think that we have not seen the results of that yet. I don't think that this was a revival among people who are movers and shakers today.

[00:06:26] I think there are people who will be movers and shakers in 10 years, in 20 years. And so I think that our country will be experiencing the results of Charlie Kirk's life and his ministry and his work for many, many years to come. And, you know, when there was a time when I was young, I remember asking myself, who's the next Rush Limbaugh when Rush Limbaugh is gone?

[00:06:51] And, you know, it was only Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Mark Levin were the only. I listen to those three religiously, Josh, as well. Yeah, we come from similar upbringings, I suppose. But, you know, by the time Rush Limbaugh passed away because he lived a much longer life than Charlie Kirk, there were 100 more Rush Limbaugh's. And I think that Charlie Kirk is going to have 100 more Charlie Kirks.

[00:07:17] But it's going to take some time because he was young when he went to heaven. And he had a ministry to young people. I had the privilege of just catching a little bit of an interview between Ben Shapiro and Andrew Colvett from TPUSA today. And Andrew was talking about how the TPUSA is exploding. I mean, they have 3,500 high school chapters and 1,500 college chapters.

[00:07:45] And he was talking about the young people in TPUSA are, he described them as lions, just unashamed, unapologetic, just the strong leaders of the future. And so we might be going through what a little bit of a discouraging time right now, a year after the death of Charlie Kirk.

[00:08:07] But I do think that his martyrdom, that the Lord will receive great glory from that and that there will be great, great things that will be accomplished, even just in our nation over the next 20, 30 years, if the Lord does not come because of his work in ministry. That's so encouraging. A great perspective, Josh. And we are promised in the Bible that the Lord takes what the enemy meant for evil and he uses it for good.

[00:08:34] And so hopefully we can continue to highlight that eternal perspective and hope for you today. We're going to a break, but we'll be right back. So stay with us right here on the Point of View Roundtable. This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:06] Winston Churchill once explained that socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Colonel Allen West begins his commentary on the gospel of envy with that, quote, He persuasively argues that Marxism at its heart is an ideology of envy. It is a philosophy of failure because you cannot make an entire society equal. You end up retarding individual advancement, achievement, and entrepreneurial spirit.

[00:09:31] Socialism fails because it naively assumes that humans and government can better determine what to do with you and your production than you. He points to the current attempt by the New York City mayor, Zoram Mamdani, to establish stores that will put convenience stores out of business. He points to Abdul El-Sayed, who is promoting government health care that will significantly reduce your medical choices. Now we hear from the Democratic Socialists that wealthy Americans must pay their fair share.

[00:09:59] He suggests that we tell that to wealthy NBA stars. Will they ask the same of wealthy progressives who support their congressional campaigns? Will they say that to movie stars and entertainers? Or should actors work for free? Should musicians let Americans hear their songs for free? He warns that we should not fall for the gospel of envy, neither should we fall prey to the creed of ignorance. And that comment leads to his concern that most students have never been educated about economics and the dangers of socialism.

[00:10:29] Colonel West's commentary is a reminder that the push for socialism today comes from the heart, a spirit of envy, and from the head, a creed of ignorance. This is our challenge during this election season. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view. Go deeper on topics like you just heard by visiting pointofview.net. That's pointofview.net.

[00:11:00] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. On the roundtable today, we are remembering Charlie Kirk's legacy. We are reflecting on a year since his tragic assassination. We were together a year ago today here on the roundtable, and so we are looking back on the year. And Josh Barnes just had some great reflections and reminders for us. And I think that that is really important.

[00:11:26] And I do want to just kind of follow that up with an encouragement to say, you know, many people were really influenced, especially young men, I think. And, Josh, you were just mentioning how Andrew Colvitt, who was the executive producer of Charlie Kirk's show, and he was there at Turning Point with Charlie. He was talking about how Turning Point USA has exploded and you have so many young new members.

[00:11:50] And so there may be a lot of people, and we may not be seeing that bear out in data yet or necessarily fruit or results, but there may be a lot of young people who have been inspired, and there is something stirring, a steed that was planted. And so this is in one way an exciting time, but also a precarious time. And so if we're looking for immediate results, then I think we're looking in the wrong place.

[00:12:17] And that was a really good reminder, Josh, but if we want to say, okay, let's get more involved than ever in discipling the young people who are looking for something real and true and lasting and meaningful, because there are a lot of options for who they could listen to and follow. I interviewed Shane Pruitt recently, who said people are going to be discipled one way or the other. They're either going to be discipled by Christ followers or they're going to be discipled by the world.

[00:12:46] And so these young people who are inspired by Charlie's life and legacy, let's make sure that we're stepping up to disciple them. And kind of on that note, I'll come to you first, Alyssa, here, and then we can talk about this. But this is an article, again, you can follow along with some of the topics we're discussing today at pointofview.net. I discussed this on Point of View recently, but I wanted to bring it up again on the roundtable on whether or not Republicans are embracing the vice economy.

[00:13:15] So on the one hand, there's encouraging news. And I think these are some of the seeds that we're referring to here. Institute for Family Studies finds that most young men, they still want to get married. And that is something that Charlie Kirk talked about a lot was marriage and family. They value financial independence. They want to become fathers, but they also feel deeply uncertain about what manhood means. Many of them feel on a regular basis as if they are failures.

[00:13:43] We're talking about young men between 18 and 29. And they feel that they have little control over what happens. And then at the same time, we are kind of seeing an explosion of what you might call the vice economy, the proliferation of gambling apps, prediction markets, chatbot companions, harmful substances, deregulation of marijuana.

[00:14:03] And so, Alyssa, do you think that there is a problem here, especially looking at the Republican Party, of trying to maybe win young male voters by expanding some of these different things that are actually contributing to their harm, even if maybe initially on the surface it seems like that would win male voters over? It's not actually helping to create a virtuous young citizenry. I'd love to get your thoughts on that. Oh, yes.

[00:14:33] I absolutely see that as a way to, you know, cater to the fleshly desires of young men. We're losing the heart of young men. And I really see that, for sure, in the younger generation of men having a lack of purpose and meaning, which shouldn't come as a surprise when you see what their time is filled with.

[00:15:01] And often it's with vices or things that could be innocent, like, you know, playing video games. I'm not going to say that's completely, fully harmful. But maybe if you're doing it hours on end each day, that, yeah, that absolutely is going to have a negative effect on your brain. And maybe the initial fleshly response that you want to have is more expansions of marijuana or better access to whatever content that you like. But the end result is always going to be failure.

[00:15:29] And, you know, looking back at, you know, this episode, we're looking back on Charlie's life. And he so often spoke to young men that to be a boy, it's not hard to follow your flesh. You know, and he's quoted as saying an animal can do that. It's very easy to say yes to what feels good in the moment. But if you want to be a man, you need to set aside what your flesh wants and you need to pursue what is good, not just what feels good, but what is good.

[00:15:56] And what we know from Scripture is that the pursuit of good and the pursuit of truth is actually the pursuit of Christ. And when we see a lack of inclination to go to church, when we see a lack of involvement in church or small groups, men who are more apathetic in their faith, all of that goes hand in hand with this, you know, Republican catering to marijuana and online gambling and all of these vices that are ultimately harmful.

[00:16:24] So in the spirit of Charlie Kirk, you know, men need to say no to their flesh. They need to say no to what may feel good in the moment because to be a man is to set aside those things and pursue what is good, true, right, moral and just. Yeah, absolutely. And that's something I mean, we all have to, you know, deny our flesh and carry our cross. Josh, your response to this rise of what you might call the vice economy and the place that young men are in in our nation right now.

[00:16:52] Yeah, well, like Alyssa said, I mean, she's exactly right about that. I would say that this is a very disappointing trend among some some right wing voices where there's this push for, I think, probably more of a libertarianism, like, you know, because they think it's going to help us in elections or something like that.

[00:17:18] But on the heels of a conversation about Charlie Kirk, who not only argued for morality and righteousness, but also showed that that stems from God and the Bible. I think this is this is a massive mistake, just practically speaking, for Republicans and for the right to make, because I don't think this appeals to men.

[00:17:43] I think men look at themselves and their vices and say, I wish I could conquer this, not please give please, you know, help me do more of this. At least that is sort of like the dream of men. Men want to be generally speaking, men want to be they want to beat themselves into submission. They want to be victorious over some beast.

[00:18:07] They want to they want to be called to a greater purpose and to a denial of self. This is why podcasts like, oh, I talk to my wife about this one all the time. Matt Walsh. I love the I love listening to Matt Walsh. My wife cannot stand it. The reason is because he appeals to men. That's the kind of thing that actually appeals to men and to say, you know what, men, we just sit back and we'll baby you.

[00:18:35] We'll give you everything you want and all the things, all the guilty pleasures that you have. We're going to just pretend that they're not evil. That doesn't appeal to men. Men want something to conquer. Men want something to have victory over this. Why they love sports. That's why they love war movies and so on and so forth. This is just our nature. And so I don't think this actually is going to going to help men vote Republican.

[00:18:59] And it also is just not good for them in the long run, as Alyssa so very carefully pointed out. Yeah, I think that's so great and important for us to remember because the conversation about men and boys and how they're doing. I mean, that's been an ongoing conversation for a while now, not always. And thankfully, we are focusing on that because and I say this as a woman, of course, who has benefited from a lot of good progress for women in the United States.

[00:19:28] But then for so long, you just had such a laser focus on women and girls and helping them succeed. And men were vilified, honestly. And boys were told that there is something inherently wrong with them. And that is just so wrong and so unbiblical. And so it's good that the conversation has turned culturally to where we're allowed to talk about boys and men and problems.

[00:19:53] But then this response, as both you, Josh and Alyssa, have articulated so well in this article lays out so well, is just not the correct response politically. There's a difference between license and liberty. Liberty, liberty, freedom is exist truly within a moral framework. The Bible says that where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. There is freedom.

[00:20:18] And we have this backed up by the founders of our country because this is quoted in the article as well. And I think we're all familiar with this quote. John Adams wrote that our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people because freedom does require morality. And so if we are starting to see as a nation politically leaning more and more toward license rather than liberty that is ordered toward the good, then we need to stand up. We need to hold our representatives accountable.

[00:20:47] We need to make our voices heard and say that we do not want this. But at the end of the day, you know, a lot of these solutions, they really do start at home. They start at home with how we raise our children. They start in the church with where children are, you know, continue to be raised and discipled. And so, again, as we are honoring Charlie Kirk's legacy and thinking about the things that he promoted and he did promote virtue, he promoted good things, he promoted following Christ.

[00:21:15] Then we need to step up and say, OK, we're going to disciple the young people that are in our churches and communities as well. Richard Lim is on the line. And so we'll come back to our roundtable discussion when we get back after this short break. Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. Those are the words of President Ronald Reagan, a staunch defender against socialism.

[00:21:44] Sadly, too many Americans have failed to educate this generation about the dangers and failures of socialism. Surveys show that a majority of young Americans hold favorable views of socialism. And here's what's really surprising. More than a third of churchgoers prefer socialism to capitalism. How can we prevent freedom's extinction?

[00:22:10] It's up to patriotic Americans like you, those who believe in the existence of truth, to band together and defend freedom's legacy. Thankfully, there is a team dedicated to doing just that, the truth team. And we have a spot for you. Join us in defending freedom's legacy. Learn more by visiting pointofview.net or call 1-800-347-5151.

[00:22:39] That's pointofview.net and 1-800-347-5151. Point of View will continue after this. You are listening to Point of View.

[00:23:04] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now, here again is Liberty McCarter. We're continuing our roundtable discussion today. We are also commemorating one year since the death of Charlie Kirk. And a year ago, we were reflecting on that very fresh and tragic news. And now we're looking at where we've come as a nation since then.

[00:23:30] And, of course, we want to honor Charlie Kirk's legacy, particularly his legacy of speaking boldly for faith as well. We'll still have Josh Barnes and Alyssa Sonnenberg on the line. Richard Lim has now joined us. Richard, thanks for joining Point of View and being with us again today. And I wanted to point out another article. We've got the link at pointofview.net that has some data on how non-trusting Americans are, particularly Gen Z.

[00:23:59] And so a little bit earlier in the program, we were kind of reflecting on what's happened in the last year. We saw the proliferation of more conspiracy theories, some very dark, I think, very, you know, with evil intent, I'll be frank. But we have seen that more generally in American culture as well. And even going back further, it feels like such a long time ago, but, you know, relatively it's not.

[00:24:25] We're also coming up to the 25th anniversary of the September 11th attacks, which I certainly remember that moment as a child. So, Richard, we really have, when you look at the last few decades, there have been several big events that have shaped generations in their childhood and in their adolescence. And I don't know that that can be separated from the lack of trust for other people and institutions that we see today.

[00:24:51] But as a historian, I'd love to get your perspective on that or anything else you'd like to reflect on as you join us today. Yes, absolutely. I mean, it is hard to believe it's already been a year since Charlie Kirk left this earth. And it is just a reminder that we live in a fallen world where murder is real. Jesus' admonition that hating someone in your heart is the root sin of murder is especially apt.

[00:25:19] Hate does lead to murder, whether it's in our hearts or in our external actions. And I think I know all of us struggle at times with feelings of anger towards people, especially those we disagree with. And it can be disheartening to see people reject truth. And I think there are times when we legitimately feel frustrated and upset. But as Christians, we also need to be bold for that truth as well as compassionate, just the way Jesus was.

[00:25:48] Our enemies are sheep without a shepherd, just as we once were. Now, as far as the lack of trust, it is unfortunate. You know, the human default is to be cynical about others, to assume the worst about people. And not just people in power, but people in general. And it's the same spirit that has led people to say things like, oh, the only reason the founding fathers declared independence was to keep their slaves.

[00:26:15] And I think part of the cynicism we're seeing among Gen Zers, you could argue, is a natural response because they have seen people in power abuse that power. People like Dr. Fauci, Joe Biden come to mind. But at the same time, it's very easy for people to make assumptions about other people's motives to assume that they know what's inside someone's heart.

[00:26:40] Now, at my day job, I do research and I literally my whole job is to verify things and make sure that it's accurate. So it is frustrating to see that people often default to the most cynical interpretation of things, of people's motives. And it was also interesting in that article that Christians and Gen Zers have a lower level of cynicism than Gen Zers in general. And I think that's healthy.

[00:27:08] They have a healthy skepticism of authority, but not a blanket assumption about nefarious motives. And I think it's important for Christians to step up and clarify that as sinners, our motives are often a mix. They're not always all bad, but they're not always all good either. And we should cultivate humility when judging others, just like as Proverbs says, who can know the human heart? And I think we can really be a light in that respect.

[00:27:38] Melissa, whenever you look at these statistics, looking at the lack of trust, particularly among members of Gen Z, I would love to get your thoughts on that. Just, you know, do you think that there are certain factors? I mean, I know Richard mentioned kind of big figures during the COVID pandemic, which was a very formative time for a lot of Gen Z. But what about our culture do you think maybe has contributed to this?

[00:28:01] And then do you have any ideas of where we could help steer the next generation to maybe have more trust or at least more optimism in their outlook? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:28:16] I think that we live in an extremely politically polarized moment in history where when someone disagrees with you, often it's easy for you to now see them as an enemy.

[00:28:32] You see this a lot on the left of you disagree with an LGBTQ stance and now you're labeled a fascist or a bigot or is, you know, Islamophobic if you don't appreciate Mom Donnie and his socialistic mayor tendencies. All those things. So immediately upon this agreement, you are now having labels about your own character placed on you, which is something I don't think has happened before.

[00:28:59] You know, Republicans and Democrats used to be able to live in relative harmony. I think even when I was growing up, there wasn't this hostility towards one another. There was the ability to disagree without needing to break fellowship or needing to scream at the other person or threaten the other person or call the other person names or defame their character.

[00:29:22] And now what we've seen, especially in this past year, is just this heightened sense of moral indignation whenever there is a disagreement. And I think, you know, Republicans can get like this, too, to where we so often stop viewing people as people and we view them as an ideological enemy, which I want to be careful because in one sense, there is absolutely an ideological enemy that people propagate.

[00:29:51] And those people are evil people. And we shouldn't seek to, you know, associate them with with them in one sense. But in another sense, it's so easy to look at someone as not human. And, you know, Charlie Kirk, again, said this wonderfully, that the moment you stop having conversation, evil things happen. Because when you stop having conversations, you stop viewing the other person as a human being made in the image of God and you start viewing them as an opposing ideology.

[00:30:19] And when they're just an opposing ideology, you can justify any form of violence or any form of threatening tactics to get your way. And so I think we're just seeing a lot of that right now. And, again, the solution is Jesus and the healing, the unity, the peace that he brings.

[00:30:37] So Christians have a lot of work to do because our main mission here is to make disciples and to cultivate a culture that loves Jesus, that is submissive to him, and that follows in his statutes. Our founders understood that. Our founders understood that freedom was not to do whatever you want, but that freedom was to do what is good, what is right, what is just. And so we as Christians need to take that call very seriously, especially in America. Yes. Josh, we've got a couple minutes before the end of the segment.

[00:31:06] But, you know, I'd love to get your perspective, too, on viewing somebody as made in the image of God and being able to disagree with them in a civil way, but also being bold and calling out the evil that we see in our culture. Yeah. I mean, so I think Alyssa said it very well. I mean, we are made in the image of God. There is a value and a care that we should have for one another.

[00:31:33] But it's not wrong for us not to trust people today. People just generally aren't trustworthy. So, I mean, in this article, there's statistics about whether people would say that, generally speaking, most people can be trusted. It's just true that most people can't be trusted these days, or at least there is a rising amount of people who just cannot be trusted.

[00:31:59] And really, the church should be the answer to that, because the church should be calling people to a trustworthy character. But then we have pastors and church leaders who are showing themselves untrustworthy. And this is constantly in the media, another pastor who's done some terrible, awful, obscene sin and showed that he's not even trustworthy. So there's a whole lot there. And I know I don't have a whole lot of time.

[00:32:28] But I would say that, generally speaking, for Gen Z to be saying, look, we are not going to take for granted that you're a trustworthy person. We want to go back to square one and prove that you're trustworthy before I start to trust you is actually – generally, it's a very good thing. That is the basis for Christianity. We start with we don't take for granted these things, but here's the evidence that Jesus rose from the dead. Here's the evidence.

[00:32:55] And so you can actually – it's a starting point where we can reach these people with the gospel of Jesus Christ, because skepticism can be a very healthy thing if it's built on correctly. You know, I think that's something that we should keep in mind, because when we are making disciples, when we are evangelizing, it's important to say, how can I maybe connect with this person that I'm trying to reach? Can we find some common ground upon which to build a conversation?

[00:33:24] And so that's a great idea, Josh, to say, you know, you have a lot of skepticism. You have a lack of trust because the world isn't trustworthy and use that to point to what we can trust. We're not done on the roundtable today. We have a long ways to go yet and a lot more to discuss. So stay with us. We'll be right back after this break.

[00:33:42] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. So since we are broadcasting from Dallas here at the Point of View studios,

[00:34:07] I wanted to take a moment to mention that there is kind of a first-time midterms Republican convention happening in Dallas yesterday and today. President Trump speaking both nights. Vice President Vance will be there speaking tonight. And so obviously this is ahead of the midterm elections in November. And this is Trump's second term in the presidency. And so people are, of course, talking about the future of the Republican Party, the future of the conservative movement.

[00:34:36] And so there's an article I sent out to the co-host here, The American Dream for the Next Generation of Voters, published in the Daily Wire. And talking about some of the things that maybe we'd like to see from other candidates that step forward. Obviously, Trump shook up the Republican establishment a lot. And so there have been a lot of accomplishments. A lot of things have changed.

[00:34:59] And so when we are looking for candidates in the future, the author here of this article, Catalina Loft, who actually did serve in the first Trump administration and has run for Congress as well, says that we need to look for younger Americans who are real people and have the courage to say what they believe. I know a lot of people, you know, Charlie Kirk comes to mind when we say that because he was one of those figures that I know many people hoped that he would eventually run for office.

[00:35:28] But, Alyssa, let me come to you. You know, when we're looking at the future of politics in America, you know, what are some wish list items that you'd like to see? Do we need to think outside the box a little bit in order to appeal to the next generation? You know, I think for especially young people today, the thing that is forefront on their minds is the affordability crisis that we have, which is absolutely real.

[00:35:54] You know, what I used to spend on groceries every week for my family, even a couple years ago, is more now. It just it just is. And, you know, the typical response that I've seen from Republicans is that, well, you just need to stop eating out and buying, you know, $20 burritos. I remember Daily Wire, people going back and forth on that.

[00:36:17] And, you know, Matt had a great response that, you know, the the way to win young people is not to gaslight them and say that, oh, we don't have an affordability crisis. You have a spending problem. So the real response is, yes, we do have an affordability crisis. And to give young people not just, oh, this is what we're opposing, but young people need a vision. They need to be given a future that has hope. And our candidates have not been great at that.

[00:36:46] Our candidates are very good at lambasting the other side and saying what they're bad at, you know, what they've done, the evils that they've done. And they won't do that. But they haven't done a good job at giving the younger generation a future that they can look forward to. And especially with the younger generation wanting to have a family and buy a home, and homes are more expensive than ever, that the Republican base really needs to decide what kind of candidates that they want. And they need candidates that are relatable.

[00:37:15] That's why Trump was so popular in 2016. Here was this guy who wasn't a politician, who said what he meant, who meant what he said, who was off the cuff and crass and crude, of course. But that's what people gravitated towards. He was a real person to them. And we need more candidates like that, candidates who aren't just interested in being famous, in being a politician, but in candidates who are interested in shaping a vision for the future generation and actually getting things done.

[00:37:44] That's something we're very lacking in the Republican base. And so I think that's the biggest thing that Gen Z needs specifically and younger generations. Josh, your thoughts on leaders that you would like to see step up both in the political arena and the cultural arena as well? Yeah, well, I mean, obviously I think that religious Republicans and the religious right, I'm hoping to see a huge revival in that.

[00:38:14] Obviously, Trump certainly has been good for Christian people. There's some debate about whether he truly is a Christian himself. But, you know, I don't think that Christians, generally speaking, see Trump as like the Christian president, you know, the guy who's really championing Christian causes, though he is doing really good things for Christians. And that's a wonderful thing. But I'd like to see more of that. I think it's encouraging to see J.D. Vance's speaking about his faith.

[00:38:43] I kind of like more of what I hear from somebody like Marco Rubio. But I also think just to reach young people, the next candidate needs to be somebody who's willing to say what's sort of uncouth and not necessarily politically correct. That's what I think was so attractive about Trump to young people. And I think that's what politicians need to understand. Saying the quiet part out loud, saying the thing that you're not supposed to say but is obviously true is really what resonates,

[00:39:13] I think, with young people. Absolutely. I mean, Richard, we've got a couple of minutes before the end of the segment. But I think maybe this political correctness that so many young people grew up, I would say being oppressed by, has contributed to the cynicism that we see today and that maybe even if they don't support Trump necessarily, they are wanting someone to, as Josh said, say the quiet part out loud and just be a little more real.

[00:39:41] Yes. And, you know, part of it also isn't just appealing to young people, but it's getting the older folks to retire. One of my friends, he's my age, he's a millennial, and he ran for office. His opponent was 88 years old. And that 88-year-old guy won because the establishment chose him. And he's been there since the Reagan administration. So part of it is, hey, it's your time.

[00:40:09] It's time for the new generation to take over. I think also with that said, part of the issue of reaching out to young people is doing it in a way that doesn't come across as Steve Buscemi's character on 30 Rock where he goes undercover in a high school and says, hey there, fellow kids. You know, so part of it is understanding who they are. And I don't know if I do. I mean, I'm in my 40s.

[00:40:37] But I do know, as we've been saying here, that authenticity is in being able to communicate in ways that cuts through the, I guess what people consider the quote-unquote tired labels of liberal versus conservative. Not saying that that's not a valid dichotomy, but I think it's knowing that language. And also knowing that people's attention spans are lower than ever. Kids are raised on swiping and doom scrolling and all that stuff.

[00:41:06] And it's not healthy, but it's the reality of it. And being able to engage and package things in ways that appeal to them I think are key. Yeah, good insights. I mean, whenever we're looking at kind of the landscape, I think you're so right. You have this mix of, you know, maybe people who are holding on to power because it has become a bit of a power thing for them. You have people who don't know what they're talking about or who are trying to sound like they appeal to the younger generation or younger voters and young families,

[00:41:35] but they don't really know what it's like. I mean, part of why we do the Next Generation Roundtable on Point of View is to try to bring in those different perspectives from different generations so that we can understand. Because sometimes unless you're experiencing life at a certain age in a certain environment, you just don't really know what it's like for somebody at that stage of life right now. And so having these cross-generational conversations is so important. And as we wrap up, I would just encourage people also, if you are a young person listening, you're a millennial or Gen Z,

[00:42:06] and you are thinking about the future, you know, how can you step up? Especially starting at the local level, there are so many ways to make an impact in your community by running for school board, running for city council, getting that start and saying, I want to make a tangible difference on the things that are impacting real people, real people, my neighbors, my community. And it takes somebody willing to step out there and say, you know what, I'll do it. I'll serve my nation.

[00:42:33] And so maybe that's a call that is on your life that you need to pray about. But there are multiple ways to serve. And there are multiple ways to promote the good things that we need to promote in this nation. And, of course, as we are remembering Charlie Kirk today that he promoted. We're coming up to the end of the hour. We have more to come. I do want to say thank you to Josh Barnes for joining us on the roundtable today. I appreciate your perspective. As always, go to pointofview.net, click on his picture, and you can see information and follow his YouTube channel, which I highly recommend.

[00:43:03] Alyssa and Richard are going to stick with us for a little bit in the next hour. So we'll be right back on Point of View's roundtable after this break. Who can you trust? Years ago, many of us could probably have provided a fairly long list. But today, well, today it seems we almost can't trust anyone. Educators don't even know what a woman is anymore.

[00:43:30] Many so-called public servants have shown all they care about is themselves. The FBI has been accused of bias, law-breaking, betrayal, and journalism. It's largely corrupt with no Clark Kent standing up for truth, justice, and the American way. All of this is why Point of View Radio is more important than ever. And your part in supporting us is more needed than ever.

[00:43:56] Do your part today in supporting trustworthy truths. Stand with us and help push back the lies and the darkness. Visit pointofview.net. Don't put it off. Take a moment right now and click on that big blue button that says, Donate Now. Or call to invest at 1-800-347-5151. Pointofview.net.

[00:44:22] And 800-347-5151. Point of View will continue after this. Across America. Live. This is Point of View.

[00:44:55] And now, Liberty McCartney. Thanks for sticking with us on Point of View's Roundtable today. Wrapped up a great first hour with Josh Barnes, Richard Lim, and Alyssa Sonnenberg. Richard and Alyssa staying with me for a little bit this hour. And we are reflecting on where we are as a nation a year after Charlie Kirk's death. A year ago, almost to the day, we were together on the roundtable here at Point of View right after that tragedy had happened. So I'm very thankful that those same co-hosts have made time to join me again today.

[00:45:25] And one of the things that Charlie Kirk was so good at promoting were family values. He was encouraging young people to get married, to have children, to devote their lives to something meaningful. And he was an advocate for things that would benefit families. I wanted to get perspectives on something that we actually talked a little bit about yesterday. I interviewed Joe Waters, who is with Capita, a think tank, on this new proposal that we have

[00:45:53] not seen details of, but it was reported by the New York Times to actually make married parents eligible for a grant that had previously benefited parents that were working to help them cover child care. And according to the reporting, this new proposal would actually make married parents eligible for that when one of them stays home. So that basically the stay at home parent would, to an extent, be subsidized.

[00:46:19] Now, we talked about some of the pros and cons of that with Joe Waters yesterday. He was definitely pro, even if it wasn't a perfect proposal based on what we know of it so far, that it was moving in the right direction. But there has really been an intraconservative debate about this and whether or not it's the right way to help families or encourage at least one parent to be able to stay at home with their young kids. And so I wanted to give a little airtime to maybe some critique as well.

[00:46:47] And so I commend to you this article that was published in Washington Examiner, Trump's new stay at home parent plan misses the mark by Patrick Brown, who is a fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center. And so he goes through a few of the critiques, namely that since there's not more funding that it might cut in to make it difficult for the people who really need it, like single moms, for instance, to be able to take advantage of it. It's just less resources for everyone.

[00:47:16] And also the fact that parents under this proposal would be reclassified as child care providers and kind of the legal implications of that that might be a little concerning. So, Richard, I'll come to you first. And I just want to hear perspectives. Do you think this is good? Do you think this is bad? Because we do need to talk about policy that helps family. And so this is one proposal. And what do we think about it? Yes.

[00:47:42] So I think that just as Christians, we should absolutely want to make it easier for people to get married, have children, obviously raise strong families. And if a family makes the financial sacrifice to have one parent stay at home with the kids, we should not have policies that penalize them for making that choice. But at the same time, with regards to this specific proposal, it doesn't mean that every

[00:48:08] government program that is aimed at helping families is automatically a good thing or wise. I'm not sure that we want to start treating normal parenting as a service that the government pays you to provide, especially if that money comes out of a program that's already struggling to help poor working parents, as far as from what I understand. That's why I think the alternative, which the author of the article proposes, a larger

[00:48:38] child tax credit, probably makes better sense. It helps families keep more of their own money. It then trusts parents to decide what their family needs, whether that means paying for daycare or having either mom or dad stay at home or relying on grandparents. It just depends on the situation. And the child tax credit allows for that. I think conservatives shouldn't be afraid of having a genuinely pro-family economic policy.

[00:49:06] But the goal should be to strengthen marriage and parenthood without making government the center of family life. And government can make it easier to build a family, but it shouldn't necessarily take the family's place. And I think that's, unfortunately, what this proposal could open the door to. Alyssa, what are your thoughts on the proposal? Yeah, I understand some of the criticisms that come.

[00:49:31] You know, I stay home with my daughter, and I don't consider myself a child care provider. I just consider myself her mother, and that's my job as her mother is to take care of her. And so I do understand the criticism on that. But I actually think the proposal itself, while there are some issues with it, I think generally speaking it's a positive proposal because there is nothing wrong, in my opinion, with a government wanting to incentivize people getting married.

[00:50:00] And that was one of the biggest criticisms on the other side that I saw was, oh, you're excluding single moms. You're excluding, you know, other kind of family living situations. And it's like, as harsh as it may seem, yes, yes, it is. Because for so long, we've seen the welfare system be highly abused by people in our society. You see this a lot in urban cities, especially of women that purposefully stay single because

[00:50:27] the more children they have out of wedlock, the bigger their check gets from the government. And I'm not making a blanket statement that all single women are like that. You know, I have single women in my life that are not like that. But generally speaking, we want governments to incentivize and encourage nuclear family situations. And I think the positive end of this proposal is that it's incentivizing and actually rewarding

[00:50:52] families who don't give their children to institutions, but instead one parent stays home and raises their kids. We want that to be the norm in our society. I don't think it's good that we have so many young children in daycare. Erica Commissar is one of the most well-known child psychiatrists. Her child development work is all over social media. She has time and again warned against the dangers of daycare, how it leads children to have anxiety

[00:51:21] disorders, how it leads children to sometimes go down dark paths because they didn't have that proper bonding connection with their mothers. So, so many children, especially in the area I live, are in daycare on a regular basis. And that's not a good thing. So for government to incentivize that instead of sending your child to daycare, what if one of you stays home and takes care of them instead? I think that's a perfectly reasonable proposal. And now, of course, there are some issues with it.

[00:51:50] Like I mentioned, I don't consider myself a child care provider. What does that legally mean if this is implemented? You know, do parent rights shift? Those are questions that we have yet to see. I mean, this hasn't even been officially drafted. This is just a proposal that has been made. So we'll have to wait and see what the nitty gritty wording of this is, how it's actually going to be implemented, what it's actually going to look like for parents. But I think generally speaking, it's good for a government to de-incentivize immoral living,

[00:52:19] to de-incentivize staying single, and to incentivize a nuclear family that raises their own kids instead of an institution. Well, thank you both for your perspectives on that. If nothing else, I'm glad that there is a conversation about this. And so let's continue to talk about it. And also let your representatives know that you care about pro-family policy, whether you agree with this specific proposal or not. But I do want to say, just take a moment to say farewell to Richard. We're coming up to the end of the segment, and he has got to hop off.

[00:52:49] But Richard, it's been great having you on Point of View today. Thanks for having me on. I always enjoy being on. I always appreciate your perspective. And of course, you can follow Richard Lim. Follow his podcast, This American President. It is so educational. And of course, he has his book on George Washington coming out next month, Refusing a Crown. Can't wait to get my hands on that and talk about that on Point of View. But when we come back, Alyssa and I will continue to discuss. And I want to take a few minutes to talk about the battle of the sexes.

[00:53:18] We've been talking about marriage and family and promoting that. But what's happening online? We'll discuss it when we get back. This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:53:44] Winston Churchill once explained that socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Colonel Alan West begins his commentary on the gospel of envy with that quote. He persuasively argues that Marxism, at its heart, is an ideology of envy. It is a philosophy of failure because you cannot make an entire society equal. You end up retarding individual advancement, achievement, and entrepreneurial spirit.

[00:54:09] Socialism fails because it naively assumes that humans and government can better determine what to do with you and your production than you. He points to the current attempt by the New York City mayor, Zoram Mamdani, to establish stores that will put convenience stores out of business. He points to Abdul El-Sayed, who is promoting government health care that will significantly reduce your medical choices. Now we hear from the Democratic Socialists that wealthy Americans must pay their fair share.

[00:54:37] He suggests that we tell that to wealthy NBA stars. Will they ask the same of wealthy progressives who support their congressional campaigns? Will they say that to movie stars and entertainers? Or should actors work for free? Should musicians let Americans hear their songs for free? He warns that we should not fall for the gospel of envy. Neither should we fall prey to the creed of ignorance. And that comment leads to his concern that most students have never been educated about economics and the dangers of socialism.

[00:55:07] Colonel West's commentary is a reminder that the push for socialism today comes from the heart, a spirit of envy, and from the head, a creed of ignorance. This is our challenge during this election season. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my Point of View. Go deeper on topics like you just heard by visiting pointofview.net. That's pointofview.net.

[00:55:38] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. So I know we've mentioned this a few times over the past week, but last week you did have a mistrial in the case involving Lindsay Clancy, who tragically a few years ago in Massachusetts murdered all three of her children.

[00:55:59] And it has become quite the cultural flashpoint because in addition to just the actual crime itself being so dark and gruesome, when the news first came out about it, I didn't even want to read it. I didn't follow it for a long time because it was just so dark and disturbing. Then you had a trend of people online actually supporting the murderer, of supporting the mother.

[00:56:25] You had people showing up at the courthouse in support. It reminded me in a lot of ways of the trends that we saw after the murder of the UnitedHealthcare CEO, people supporting Luigi Mangione. And, of course, as we're discussing this on the anniversary of the assassination of Charlie Kirk, people celebrating that. And it's just so dark. I saw this as an extension of that trend in a way.

[00:56:53] But what this article focuses on, and you can read it at pointofview.net, is how this not only was that the original crime and then some of the response disturbing enough, then it just snowballed into one more front, you might say, in the war between the sexes, where if you looked online, there was enough disturbing information. And then you just had more fights between men and women, basically.

[00:57:22] And so that was discouraging as well because you were already seeing decline in dating, a decline in marriage rates. You have influencers both among women and among men who are discouraging trust of or any sort of interaction or relationship with the opposite sex. And so, Alyssa, I'll throw it to you. Feel free to comment on any aspect of this.

[00:57:46] But it was discouraging to me to see that this, you know, kind of devolved into yet another example of a battle between the sexes and characterizing each other in the worst way possible. Yeah, I agree that it's discouraging to see the, as you say, the battle between the sexes. However, I see it as encouraging. You know, men have been told for so long that their masculinity is toxic,

[00:58:13] that their desire to protect and be chivalrous is toxic and it's oppressive in some way. And so when I was seeing a lot of men across the Internet say no to their fiancés or, you know, call their wedding off or break up with their girlfriend because their fiancée or their girlfriend was extremely involved in this case and extremely supportive of someone like Lindsay Clancy, I found it as a very good test of masculinity for them to say, you know,

[00:58:41] I want someone who I can implicitly trust with my children. I want to be a father one day. I want a family. And I don't trust your judgment on this. And I think we need to go our separate ways. I think that was a very telling sign of a positive masculinity that might be coming out of this case. Of course, the negative side being that all women are being characterized as these illogical, you know,

[00:59:11] people that don't know how to read facts correctly. And, you know, one of the most discouraging things for me was seeing fellow moms or people that call themselves mothers on the Internet making solidarity posts of, you know, screaming while they're throwing ice cubes in their bathtubs and pouring cold water over their six-month-olds. And somehow this is supposed to be funny or entertaining in their solidarity for Lindsay Clancy.

[00:59:35] The organizer of the pro-Lindsay Clancy event when they were outside the courthouse said, quote, I think we just know that any one of us could be sitting in her chair. Mm-hmm. That statement alone was very chilling because, you know, I'm a young mom. I have my 15-month-old currently sleeping upstairs for her nap. I'm currently almost 15 months pregnant with our next little girl. And I just feel the need to say as a young mom that I will never be Lindsay Clancy.

[01:00:02] I know that was a trend going around on social media of these hashtags, me too, hashtag we are all Lindsay Clancy. And no, we're not. Not all women are Lindsay Clancy. We're not all struggling like that. And especially with the misinformation about the case of women thinking that this was a case of postpartum when it wasn't,

[01:00:28] that's been hard as well because whenever something is framed as postpartum, it's almost untouchable. Because, you know, as you know, like postpartum is such a vulnerable time. Yeah. In a woman's life, especially, you know, the first few months, I mean, your body has gone through so much pain and stretching and healing. And you've got this big wound inside of you. You feel it whenever you walk around.

[01:00:51] I was shocked when I gave birth to my daughter because, you know, they wanted to move me into the postpartum wing of the hospital. And so I get up because I think I can just start walking like normal because, you know, first baby, you just don't know. And I was surprised that I could barely move my legs. Yeah. They had to help me into the wheelchair. So it's a very vulnerable time. Yes. So, yeah. Yeah. Great perspective, Alyssa. I mean, yeah, you're right.

[01:01:19] And that's the thing is anything that becomes a cultural conversation or, you know, is online. And that's where all of the discourse is happening these days. There are so many facets. And so, yes, it is encouraging to see men who have been told for so long, even with regard to abortion, you have no voice. Absolutely. You have a voice to stand up for the innocent and the vulnerable. And we need Christian men's voices. We need men of virtue to stand up against the evil that is abortion.

[01:01:48] And if women are in your life are supporting Lindsay Clancy, then you need to stand up against that as well. But then it's like, okay, well, that's not the same as then justifying, characterizing all women as being that way. And I absolutely am with you, Alyssa. No, we are not all Lindsay Clancy. And so it is important to know that, yes, a lot of us actually can read details.

[01:02:13] We can follow cases and we're not getting swept up in social media trends and conspiracies. And so there are a lot of, you know, details of the defense and the trial and just even the state where it was tried, Massachusetts, where as soon as somebody makes a plea of insanity, then it is on the burden of the prosecution has the burden of proving sanity, which is not the case in most states. That's, I think, relevant to how the case was argued.

[01:02:38] So there are just so many different factors there that a lot of us are actually following and keeping track of. So I think one of the important things to remember, just for maybe people who were, you know, discouraged or they're seeing, you know, all these posts online, like these angry moms, these angry women, or maybe for young men out there even, like, oh, my goodness, is this really what they all think? I think it is so important to realize that the Internet is not real life.

[01:03:07] And, like, we can see trends on the Internet that are concerning. So I don't want to say that it's not true at all, but it's not representative, I guess. And so I don't know if you have any thoughts on that, Alyssa, too, as we're winding down and you're going to have to hop off the line soon. But, you know, there's so much just kind of refreshment when you talk to somebody in real life versus trying to characterize someone based on trends that you see online.

[01:03:36] Yes, absolutely. I mean, I think I can make this a general statement that generally women who are God-fearing, they know it's true, they know it's right, they know it's just, they're not going to be spending hours a day scrolling on TikTok making solidarity posts. The majority of good women do not do that. And if they are doing that, they need to repent.

[01:04:00] So for men out there thinking that, oh, this is all women, they're all illogical, we have no hope, you know, marriage is not a thing that's going to happen for me, it's just not true. Get off your phone, go join a youth group if you're that age, go join a small group, get involved in your church and find real women in real life that actually take their faith seriously, that take truth seriously. Because, believe me, they are out there. You know, I'm friends with them. So not all women are swept up in the drama of this case. Not all women are scrolling TikTok incessantly for hours a day.

[01:04:30] You will find someone who is good and godly and true if you just get off your phone. Yeah, so good. That's so well said. You know, here's something from the article that I posted. The Internet algorithm rewards posters who make the boldest claims that offend the most people. And that is so true and so important for us to remember when we're online. Like, okay, we're probably being shown like the most extreme thing right now.

[01:04:54] And also, this is interesting, too, is individuals, we overestimate others' susceptibility to social pressures and underestimate our own. So all important perspectives for us to keep in mind as we see things online. But, Alyssa, before we go to our next break and you have to leave, just tell people where they can find your work and give us any last words, about 30 seconds before we end. Yeah, you can find all of my work at IllinoisFamily.org. I do writing for them.

[01:05:24] Yeah, that's the majority of it. And the rest of my work is in my home with my family. So, yeah, I'm very blessed by everything I'm able to do on a daily basis. Wonderful. And I appreciate your perspective and making time to join us and lend your voice as you're also caring for your growing family. And congratulations on that. And thanks for being with us on Point of View. If you want to check out Alyssa's work, go to pointofview.net. Under today's show, you can click on her picture and see those links.

[01:05:53] When we come back, we're going to continue the conversation because we have a couple of segments left in the show today. And there's more news to discuss, and I'll bring that to you right after this break. Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. Those are the words of President Ronald Reagan, a staunch defender against socialism.

[01:06:23] Sadly, too many Americans have failed to educate this generation about the dangers and failures of socialism. Surveys show that a majority of young Americans hold favorable views of socialism. And here's what's really surprising. More than a third of churchgoers prefer socialism to capitalism. How can we prevent freedom's extinction?

[01:06:48] It's up to patriotic Americans like you, those who believe in the existence of truth, to band together and defend freedom's legacy. Thankfully, there is a team dedicated to doing just that, the Truth Team. And we have a spot for you. Join us in defending freedom's legacy. Learn more by visiting pointofview.net or call 1-800-347-5151.

[01:07:17] That's pointofview.net and 800-347-5151. Point of View will continue after this. You are listening to Point of View.

[01:07:42] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now, here again is Liberty McCarter. You know, I just appreciate our co-hosts here on the Point of View at Next Generation Roundtable so much. It's always great talking with them. And we have so many different people who contribute. And again, it was really special today to talk with Richard Lim, Josh Barnes, Alyssa Sonnenberg,

[01:08:08] all who were with me almost a year ago to the day when we had a Next Generation Roundtable scheduled. And then we saw that tragic news of what had happened to Charlie Kirk. And we went on the show and we processed that and we talked about it. And so if you've missed any part of the show today, we've spent the last hour and a half doing that again and looking at where we have come as a nation since then. Now I'm going to finish out the show for you talking about some news of the day.

[01:08:35] And I want to go back, though, and talk about some of the things that we were mentioning at the top of the first hour because, you know, Josh, Alyssa, and Richard, they all said some great things that I just think deserve a little more reflection. But I also want to give an opportunity for you, since it is a roundtable day, go ahead and call in 1-800-351-1212. Again, the number is 1-800-351-1212. 1-800-351-1212.

[01:09:04] You can see it on the screen if you're watching online. You can find the number at pointofview.net as well. How do you feel like the country is doing a year after Charlie Kirk's assassination? What did that moment in our nation mean for you? Or reflecting since 9-11 as well, 25 years. That anniversary is tomorrow. I'll be with you on the weekend edition and we'll talk about that as well. So if you want to call in, again, 1-800-351-1212.

[01:09:31] We'll take your call and we can continue the discussion together. But one of the articles that I have posted for you at pointofview.net is from Deseret News. And I remember in the wake of that very tragic day when Charlie was murdered, the Utah governor, Spencer Cox, I think responded so well. And he said things that were so wise.

[01:09:57] And in the aftermath when the nation was reeling, people were trying to make sense of it. You already had some people on the far left or online that were mocking or celebrating and responding in those dark ways. He called for unity. He called for a gut check as a nation. And one of the things that he talked about was the tribalism that we see. And when I was just, you know, talking with Alyssa and Josh and Richard, we talked about that tribalism.

[01:10:25] We talked about that trend to see our ideological opponent as an enemy and the problem that that is. And so there was an article, a really good feature piece in Deseret News with Governor Cox basically reflecting on the year, you know, since and looking at, you know, have has the nation responded to his calls for disagreeing better, for more unity, for less violence? I mean, I'm not sure.

[01:10:54] But it bears looking at what he had to say. And I thought this was really, really wise. Governor Cox believes that overcoming tribalism starts by treating family members with the same respect that is lacking in the political sphere. So often when we talk about this problem of tribalism, we immediately jump to politics and we jump to our opponents. And that's important. And we need to be able to have conversations with political opponents who disagree with us.

[01:11:23] But what if we can't even have the conversation with our own family member? And this is a problem that we've seen. How many years in a row now have we seen these articles? And we'll start seeing them soon because we're in the BRRR months, V-E-R, it's fall. Well, it doesn't feel like it in Texas, but almost. And as Thanksgiving approaches and then Christmas, you'll see these articles that come out in the media every year.

[01:11:47] Here's why it's okay to not go to your family's Thanksgiving dinner if they voted for Trump or if they voted for Republicans in the midterm. We'll probably see that. Here's why you should cut off family members who disagree with you. We see this every year. We've seen there. I mean, there are books coming out now looking at this kind of phenomenon of young adults completely going no contact with their family members.

[01:12:14] And we're not talking about like cases where families were actually abusive and there was true trauma. But just they grow up and they disagree or they didn't like the way that their parents did something and then they just won't talk to them anymore. I mean, there are cases like this. Anybody listening, you probably know examples of that that has happened in your life or people that you know because it's so common.

[01:12:38] And so this is why I think it's so important for us to recognize and even ask ourselves, you know, is there someone in our family that we have, you know, been disappointed that they kind of went another way politically or ideologically? Maybe they left the faith that they were raised in. And instead of continuing to pursue a relationship with them, maybe we've just kind of allowed it to fizzle out.

[01:13:05] Maybe we've allowed it to fade because it's just easier to talk with people that you naturally agree with. And then, of course, there are the extreme examples of cutting people off. And if you've been cut off, then sometimes there's not a whole lot you can do about that except for pray. And that's a very painful situation to be in. But I think that that's important. And so for those of us with young families, too, thinking about how are we raising our families? What example are we setting with our own family members? And then it extends out from there.

[01:13:31] And then if we can maintain relationships in our own, you know, family circles, in our own friend groups or church circles where maybe somebody votes differently than you or they have a political opinion that surprises you or you see them post something on Facebook and you're like, oh, my gosh, I had no idea they believed that. But instead of getting angry about it, learn how we continue to have those conversations because we have to see people as human beings.

[01:13:56] And so that is where we kind of see the problem, because if you cut someone off, it's a lot easier to not have to really consider their humanity or the fact that they're made in God's image. And one of the other things that was in this article in Deseret News is something that we have talked about before. But this is, you know, from one of those recent Gallup polls, three in 10 Americans ages 18 to 29 say that it is at least sometimes OK to use violence to achieve a political goal.

[01:14:25] This is concerning.

[01:14:55] It is concerning. If you're comfortable as they may be with people who disagree with you and lean into those conversations, then it's a lot harder to dehumanize that person. And that is something that Charlie Kirk did so well. I mean, for goodness sakes, he was assassinated while he was on a college campus talking with somebody that he disagreed with. And so I think, you know, he famously said that once you because people would say, why do you do this? Why do you go somewhere and argue with people?

[01:15:23] Why do you go somewhere where people come up and they they mock you? They argue with you. I mean, you can find all kinds of clips online of him patiently talking with people who were vehemently disagreeing with him. But he said, as soon as you stop talking, that's when civil war happens. That is when violence breaks out. And of course, we have seen that that is certainly true. And so as we think about, all right, what's next for our nation?

[01:15:48] Then we have to ask ourselves, how are we in our own family, in our own spheres of influence? You know, we're not all in a position to go, you know, get a microphone and attract a crowd on a college campus and debate people that we don't know. But what about our relative? What about the people in our church? Can we maintain those relationships? Can we even start a conversation and say, I want to understand what you believe and just ask questions?

[01:16:13] I mean, so much of the tension, I think, between people who disagree can be alleviated by just asking somebody to explain where they're coming from and having a kind of mindset and a posture of curiosity rather than wanting to browbeat somebody into thinking the same way that you do, because you just can't force that.

[01:16:34] So it's got to start in the family and then go out from there if we want to tackle this problem of dehumanizing our political opponents. And it's also important to remember that our fight is not against flesh and blood. And so, of course, the spiritual enemy, think about that, wants there to be division in our nation.

[01:16:57] The devil is happy when we are at each other's throats, when we are not in agreement, when there is family breakdown, when there is breakdown inside churches, inside among friends who disagree politically. Anything that can drive a wedge between a good, godly, God-ordained type relationship, then that is what the enemy wants. And so we have to remember that, too. And that can be so hard because how do we call out the evil and still keep that perspective?

[01:17:25] We remember that our fight is not against flesh and blood. We are all fallen human beings. We are all sinful. We are all prone to sin and mistakes and bad ideas and wrong opinions. And so if we can look past that disagreement, we can call evil evil, but we know where evil comes from. And we can see the humanity of our opponent and we can refuse. You know, somebody else may cut us off. But the Bible says as far as it depends on you, live at peace with others.

[01:17:54] So if we can say, okay, as far as it depends on me, I'm not going to be the one to cut off that relationship or that conversation. I'm going to keep it going because I want to keep the conversation open. I want to keep the dialogue flowing. And we can start that at the most fundamental level, the most fundamental institution in our nation, the family. Going to a break, but if you want to join the conversation, 1-800-351-1212, 1-800-351-1212. Give us a call. We'll be right back.

[01:18:36] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Back for a few more minutes today. It's been a great show. Earlier we were having roundtable discussions with Richard Lim, Josh Barnes, and Alyssa Sonnenberg. And just to kind of wrap up what I mentioned before the break, you know, our fight is not against flesh and blood. And so I think many of the things that we have actually seen in the years since Charlie Kirk's death are evidence of that.

[01:19:01] For instance, what I was talking about with Alyssa just a few moments ago, the battle of the sexes that we see online of declining marriage rates and this mischaracterization, both against men, which we've seen for so long. And maybe, you know, in some circles now we're kind of seeing that against women. It's a pendulum swinging back and forth. Like she said, get offline, go talk to somebody in real life and realize that the characterization you see on social media doesn't represent everybody.

[01:19:29] But that is concerning because it is shaping many people's perceptions of the opposite sex. Well, what would the enemy love? To destroy marriage and to keep people from getting married. One of the things that Charlie Kirk talked about so much was the goodness of getting married, getting married young and starting your family and encouraging people to do that and encouraging policies that made that more attainable for more people.

[01:19:52] And so, of course, you're going to see, you know, what looks like a heightened volatility in the battle between the sexes because we're in a spiritual war. Also, the just proliferation of evil conspiracy theories that we have seen. I mean, there are so many reasons that go into that. We are living in a post-truth culture. I have addressed this on the Know Why podcast a couple of times. Why people believe in conspiracy theories.

[01:20:19] I think when people are untethered from any sort of moral framework or truth that they can ground themselves in to help them understand the world, then they will just gravitate toward anything that feels like it makes sense to them. And so I think that's what makes people really vulnerable to conspiracy theories. And so almost immediately after Charlie Kirk's death, you started seeing these conspiracy theories, even though it was a very open and shut case.

[01:20:47] And it was another example of a real problem that we have in our nation that we need to call out. Kirby, one of his recent commentaries was on this. And that's the trend of trans violence. And so this murder of Charlie Kirk was another example of that. And so it's an opportunity for us to address the political violence and the root causes of it and the lies people are believing that are destroying lives and leading to this kind of violence.

[01:21:15] But we get distracted from that work whenever we're believing conspiracy theories that are grounded in lies. So, again, that's another example, I believe, of spiritual warfare. And then, of course, these far these extreme reactions we saw kind of, you know, we've seen concerns. There's disagreement about how prevalent it is. But, you know, far right extremism kind of a rise in anti-Semitism again on the right and the left in response or just, you know, after the fact,

[01:21:44] even though Charlie Kirk himself was a very strong supporter of Israel and he was a very strong advocate against anti-Semitism. He spoke very strongly against that multiple times before his death. And yet we've seen a rise in that as well. So it can be discouraging. And I admit that I've struggled with that. But it's really important to remember, again, our fight is not against flesh and blood.

[01:22:09] You know, it's more important than ever that we take up the mantle of standing up for truth, of speaking for it boldly, because, of course, we're going to see these battles rage. Of course, we're going to see forces culturally that seem like they're trying to destroy the family or promote a post-truth culture. And so we have to ground ourselves in truth. We have to put on the armor of God, as it says in Ephesians 6, and stand up for the truth. We have to be willing to do that and do so boldly.

[01:22:38] And I was really encouraged by what Josh said in our earlier conversation. I just want to reiterate it, that he really does believe in the revival, you might call it, or at least the resurgence of faith that we saw in the wake of Charlie Kirk's death with young people returning to church. And what he said is, you know, that's still early. We probably aren't seeing the results and the fruit of that yet. But that means that this is the growth stage. So are we going to say, well, we don't see results yet?

[01:23:07] I guess that didn't happen. And now we're just going to be discouraged. Or are we going to say, let's water the seeds? Let's continue to pray. Let's continue to disciple because people are seeking truth. We did see that trend. That has been something that multiple pastors across the nation have said, that they saw more young people get involved in church. We saw Bible sales go up. And so it's not time to give up on that yet, but it is time to water the seeds. And I encourage you to do that. And just by the way, you know, it's Thursday.

[01:23:36] And that's when our Pray for America emails go out every week. And because we want to encourage you to pray for our nation. And so there's a prayer focus every week. And if you're not getting these emails, you really need to sign up. It's easy. Go to pointofview.net and just scroll until you see Pray for America and click on that. And you will get an email every week that is about a particular issue affecting our nation with a suggested prayer that you can pray, a link if you want to click on more information to learn about it.

[01:24:02] It's something you can easily forward to your friends, forward to your church small group, because as a nation, we need to pray. That's not our last resort. That should be our first response. I'm speaking to myself as well. I write these prayers for you to send out every week. And I still need to remind myself, and I'm thankful for that job and that opportunity I have because it reminds me, yeah, we need to be praying for America. So I just encourage you to do that and encourage you not to be discouraged.

[01:24:31] You know, these are a heavy couple of days we are experiencing right now in the United States, the anniversary of Charlie Kirk's death. And then tomorrow would, of course, be the anniversary, the 25th anniversary, a milestone anniversary since the September 11th attacks, which I remember seeing that live on TV when I was a little girl. And we'll talk more about that tomorrow. And so it can be easy to get discouraged, especially when maybe you saw a surge of unity

[01:24:58] after the 9-11 attacks that then fizzled out or you saw what looked like a revival starting to happen after Charlie Kirk's death. And then you saw more conspiracy theories and more extremism. But just stay encouraged because we shouldn't be surprised that there is a spiritual battle that is waging and that, of course, it's going to look dark before it looks better. And so we need to keep praying, keep speaking for truth. And hopefully you've been encouraged to do that today.

[01:25:25] Tomorrow is the weekend edition, and I'll be joined by Kelly Shackelford and Dr. Meryl Matthews. And I'm looking forward to that conversation. We have a lot to discuss. I'm trying to narrow it all down, as always, because there's always so much that we could talk about. So you'll definitely want to get into that conversation with us. Some important updates from First Liberty regarding their cases, including one that's going before the Supreme Court soon. We'll talk about that with Kelly tomorrow.

[01:25:50] And we'll also talk about some kind of disturbing news regarding AI that we've seen. If you've been online at all, maybe you're seeing headlines about, did somebody just resign from OpenAI saying that they think that there's more than a 10% chance that AI is eventually going to grow so that it can kill all of humanity? These are the claims that we're seeing online. I actually wanted to mention this. I don't have a lot of time, but we'll get into it tomorrow.

[01:26:17] This week on the Know Why podcast, I talked with Doug Smith about some of these very drastic claims that we're seeing from people working on artificial intelligence. And what do we make of that as Christians? If you don't follow the Know Why podcast, look it up on YouTube or go to knowwhypodcast.com and look at that most recent interview that I did because Doug's perspective is so helpful. I look forward to having him on Point of View soon because he has a book on artificial intelligence coming out and it grounds us in truth because we see some wild headlines these days.

[01:26:47] We see some crazy news about AI and what are we supposed to believe about it? Well, we got to talk about it and we got to always remember to look at it from a biblical perspective. So you can look at that interview that I did with Doug at knowwhypodcast.com and we'll talk about that tomorrow as well. Of course, again, we have in Dallas yesterday and today the first Republican National Midterm Convention happening.

[01:27:13] Today, Trump pledged to give $5,000 to every adult U.S. citizen if Republicans win in the midterms. Let's just say I don't think that's going to happen. But it's kind of funny that he mentioned it or maybe it's a little concerning. We'll talk about that and a lot of other news tomorrow with Kelly Shackelford and Dr. Merrill Matthews when they join me on the weekend edition. But for now, we're out of time. So thank you, Megan, for engineering the show. Thank you, Derek, for producing the show.

[01:27:39] And thank you for staying with us on the roundtable today on this important anniversary. Stay encouraged and join us tomorrow again right here on Point of View. The Bible tells us not to worry. And yet there is a lot of worrying stuff in our world today. Thankfully, the Bible doesn't stop at telling us not to worry. God gives us a next step. He says we need to pray.

[01:28:08] But sometimes even knowing what to pray can be difficult. And that is why Point of View has relaunched our Pray for America movement, a series of weekly emails to guide you in prayer for our nation. Each week, you'll receive a brief update about a current issue affecting Americans, along with a written prayer that you can easily share with others.

[01:28:34] We'll also include a short free resource for you in each email so you can learn more about the issue at hand. Will you commit to Pray for America? Go to pointofview.net. Click on the Pray for America banner at the top of the page to subscribe. Again, that's pointofview.net. Click on the Pray for America banner.

[01:29:00] Let's pray together for God to make a difference in America. Point of View is produced by Point of View Ministries.

Point of View September 10, 2026: The Round Table