Point of View September 10, 2024 – Hour 1 : Design Vs. Descent

[00:00:03] [SPEAKER_02]: A Information, Point of View.

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_03]: To spend some time looking again at the top of Intelligent Design.

[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to be talking with a guest from the Discovery Institute.

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_03]: But let me just mention next hour we will obviously mention the fact that we have a

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_03]: presidential debate tonight and we'll certainly give you some ideas of how to watch

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_03]: that what to think about and we'll certainly have full coverage tomorrow as well as

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_03]: a number of other very important articles we are posting.

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_03]: As a matter of fact, for those of you that actually watch the program as well as listen

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_03]: to it, next hour we're going to be posting a few graphs that come from a very good

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_03]: article that appeared in the Washington Examiner and some research that came from the American

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Enterprise Institute and others.

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes it is hard to understand a graph on radio.

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_03]: But if you'd like to see that either live when we broadcast or later on go back and

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_03]: find that it will give you some facts and figures that will help you evaluate some of

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_03]: things you're going to hear tonight.

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_03]: There will be a lot of vague platitudes and a lot of slogans, but I'm going to try to

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_03]: see if we can cut through that.

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_03]: But that is next hour.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_03]: We are delighted to have in studio an individual I've always interviewed on my phone,

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_03]: but this time Casey Luskin is in studio with this scientist and attorney has graduate

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_03]: degrees both in science and law.

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_03]: He holds a PhD in geology from the University to Honestberg has law degree from the

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_03]: University of San Diego, but before that he is Bachelor and Master's degree in her

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_03]: science University of California at San Diego.

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_03]: He is at the Discovery Institute as I mentioned and works as the associate director

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_03]: of the Center for Science and Culture.

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I knew we were going to talk at least a little bit about the failed predictions of evolution,

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_03]: so I dug out an article and Casey of course goes back a few years.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Design and dissent a contest of predictions.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_03]: You haven't even looked at it in a while, but I just wanted somebody to have a few facts

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_03]: in figures because as we talk about this issue of intelligent design oftentimes people

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_03]: wonder well if I have this really scientifically oriented skeptical friend can I point

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_03]: to some very good articles.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_03]: So first of all, great to see you face to face.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_00]: That's great to meet you Kirby after all these years.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for having me.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I've mentioned we got some other people in the audience that are very good friends of yours

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_03]: as well, but let's get into that.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_03]: First of all, the Discovery Institute and we have spent time talking with all sorts of

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_03]: individuals.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Certainly they Stephen Meyer, known him since the days he first met up with us at Pro Ministry's

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_03]: back here in Dallas and went on from there and many other individuals, but for somebody

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_03]: that is not familiar with the Discovery Institute, can you give us an overview?

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so we're a we call ourselves a think tank.

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_00]: We're a nonprofit think tank based in Seattle, Washington.

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_00]: We deal with many different issues.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_00]: We're probably most well known for our work on intelligence and design.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_00]: These sort of CR cells as the institutional home for the intelligence and society community,

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_00]: but we actually deal with many other issues including transportation, communication, foreign

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_00]: affairs, technology, artificial intelligence, many, many other topics.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So we're not necessarily always dealing with issues that are controversial or even ideological.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_00]: One of our programs is trying to resolve transportation problems in the Pacific Northwest,

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_00]: but we have a lot of different projects, urban affairs is probably also one of our more

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_00]: controversial topics.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_00]: But as I said, we're most well known for our work on intelligence and design.

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the center for science and culture as you mentioned, Kirby.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I worked there helping to direct our research program.

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_00]: We have a lot of scientists who are doing research into intelligence and design.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And I hope to make sure that they have the resources that they need to be able to do their

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_00]: research.

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a lot of fun.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Well somebody I quoted from your organization, Wesley J Smith, you know him.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_03]: We were talking about the issue of youth in Asia and then a more recent one that just came

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_03]: out as well.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_03]: So he's another individual, but let me just mention since I have Dr. Ray Bull and and Sue and you

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I believe you were all in Cambridge until us about that story.

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we recently did a student seminar in Cambridge and it was a lot of fun.

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_00]: We had a wonderful experience there, basically teaching about 50 students about the scientific

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_00]: evidence for intelligence and design and also on other topics.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So really Cambridge is an incredible little town.

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Basically within a five minute walk, you can see where they first discovered the structure

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_00]: of DNA or where they split the atom or where they crack the colors during World War

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_00]: II.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_00]: There's this so much incredible history there and you know, incredible religious history

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_00]: as well in the history of the Christian faith.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, quite an incredible place to study the evidence for design.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I just mentioned too.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_03]: If you go to the website point of view.net, you'll first of all have a link to kcluskin.com.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And don't even have to know how to spell it because it's all right there.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And that will give you some information.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_03]: We have information about the discovery institute, which is discovery.org and then we have

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_03]: this article and then of course we have some of the links to you as well.

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_03]: So if somebody would like to have you come and speak or would like to maybe engage in some

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_03]: discussion after we get into some of these controversial topics, they are able to do so by simply

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_03]: going to the website at point of view.net.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Let me take one of those and that is the whole idea of biochemical evolution and the structure

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_03]: of this cell.

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_03]: We've had Stephen Meyer on here, of course we had Ray Bolon on and many others talking

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_03]: about the fact that when you look just at the information code of DNA itself.

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And we recognize what a code looks like.

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_03]: It can be 26 letters in the English alphabet.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_03]: It can be 1s and 0s in a computer code.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_03]: It is much more complex than Charles Darwin would have ever imagined, isn't it?

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously in Darwin's day he had no knowledge of DNA or the way that information basically

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_00]: runs the show in biology.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_00]: In Darwin's time people knew that there were parts of the cell but they generally thought

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_00]: it was sort of like this glob of protoplasm.

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't see that there were all these differentiated molecularly machines.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_00]: That has only been discovered really in the last 50, 60, 70 years whereas as a ID biochemist

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Michael BZ said we've opened up this black box of the cell.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_00]: We now understand what's going on under the hood and we now know that the cell was basically

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_00]: like a miniaturized city or a miniaturized factory full of tiny machines that are running

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_00]: around performing all kinds of vital cellular functions from generating energy like power

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_00]: plants for the cell.

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Transportation, waste disposal, part production, central information processing.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_00]: The cell is full of hundreds of thousands of little tiny types of molecular machines

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_00]: performing all kinds of different functions and we know that many of these molecular

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_00]: machines require many parts in order for them to work.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Like any machine, you take a part out of that machine, it's probably going to stop working.

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Even something as simple as like a bicycle, right?

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_00]: You remove a spoke from the wheel or you move a pedal or you remove the handlebar, you're

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_00]: not going to be able to ride a bicycle.

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Well machines in the cell work much the same way.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Many parts have to be present in order for them to work.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And so the question then becomes curvius as you know, how do these complex structures

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_00]: evolve?

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_00]: You cannot build them up one little tiny mutational step at a time because all the parts

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_00]: have to be either all at once or they don't function, they'll give you any selective

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_00]: advantage to use the language of Darwin's theory.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So these kinds of black and machines pose a major challenged evolution and this none of

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_00]: this was known in Darwin's day.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and information to build these molecular machines is literally stored in the

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_00]: form of a biochemical language that is written in our DNA.

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And in order to use that language ourselves, use a form of computer-like information processing

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_00]: to take the code that's written in the DNA and convert it into basically these functional

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_00]: proteins that build these molecular machine machines.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So what we basically see is at the heart of life curvius is we see information rich

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_00]: code, we see computer-like information processing, and we see machine-like structures.

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_00]: But where in our experience does language-based code?

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Information processing and machines.

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Where do those things come from?

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_00]: In all of our experience, they don't come about by blind natural mechanisms.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_00]: They only come about by intelligent design.

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Let me just mention that if you are not familiar with that, the book by Michael B. He,

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_03]: which is Darwin's black, white box, is certainly a good example.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And if you want to impress your friends, that phrase is irreducible complexity.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_03]: But you found a very easy way to communicate that as well.

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_03]: We come back, we're going to look at some other aspects of intelligent design.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_03]: The predictions and evolutionists made haven't necessarily paned out.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And we'll talk about that with Casey Luskin right after this.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_02]: This is Heopoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Professor Paul Kinger has a new book on the devil and Karl Marx

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_03]: that reminds us how much Marx hated God and Christianity.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_03]: In his book and on my radio program, he cited Marx and many of the biographies

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_03]: that showed how scary he was.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_03]: His own family and friends were frightened by his demonic fits of rage

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_03]: in his bizarre focus on violence.

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Marx wrote,

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_03]: When our turn comes, we shall make no excuses for the terror.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_03]: There's only one way in which the murderous death agnies of the old society

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_03]: and the bloody birth rows of the new society can be shortened, simplified,

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_03]: and concentrated, and that way is revolutionary terror.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_03]: In his book and also in a recent column in the American spectator,

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_03]: he also asked a relevant question.

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Why not cancel Karl Marx?

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_03]: His writings are filled with racist rants and anti-Jewish and anti-Semitic statements.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Paul Kinger documents the Karl Marx was, after all, a bigot.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_03]: His attitude towards blacks and Jews alone,

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_03]: not to mention women would stun Stonewall Jackson, ugly, racial, ethnic stereotypes

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_03]: by Marx are littered throughout his writings.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_03]: If you want to find examples I suggest you read the book or his column in the American spectator,

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I simply cannot repeat some of the awful things that Karl Marx said

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_03]: about people of different races and ethnic backgrounds.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, on university campuses today,

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_03]: were told by students and professors to ignore those dead white European males

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_03]: that have given us Western culture.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_03]: But isn't Karl Marx one of those dead white European males?

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Of course he is, but once again he gets a pass.

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Karl Marx should be canceled for his bigotry alone,

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_03]: but even more so for the fact that his writings provided the foundation

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_03]: for totalitarian regimes responsible for more than 100 million deaths in the 20th century.

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_02]: For a free booklet on a biblical view of genetic engineering,

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_02]: go to viewpoints.info slash genetic engineering.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Viewpoints.info slash genetic engineering.

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_02]: You're listening to point of view.

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Your listener supported source for truth.

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Early Devon Studio with us today.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Dr. Casey Leskin again, he is the associate director of the Center for Science and Culture at Discovery Institute.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_03]: We have information about him about the discovery institute

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_03]: and also this article which I thought might be helpful

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_03]: because one of the other points that you make,

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Casey, that really placed your strength is geology

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_03]: and in particular paleontology.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_03]: When I was in graduate school, I was fortunate enough to actually have a office

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_03]: in the house of Oathenio Marsh, who was one of the great paleontologists at Yale University.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And he's goal was to go out and prove Darwin by finding all these fossils primarily in places like

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Montana and other places.

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Think a Jurassic Park or think of Indiana Jones.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_03]: And the goal was to try to find all those missing fossils

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_03]: and the transitional fossils just never showed up today.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this has been a problem even Darwin knew about in his day

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_00]: that when you look at the fossil record,

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_00]: you don't see these predicted intermediate or transitional forms that show how one type of organism

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: supposedly evolved into another.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So Darwin actually recognized in his book the origin of species

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_00]: that the fossil record should be full of these intermediate stages and we don't see them.

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So Darwin predicted that as time went on,

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_00]: we would find the transitional forms

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and he also said that the fossil record is complete.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I talked about this last night here in Dallas at the University of North Texas.

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_00]: How it took about a hundred years,

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_00]: but eventually paleontologists begin to realize you know what?

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_00]: These transitional forms, they're really not out there waiting to be found.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_00]: They're just not there.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to find them, that are how much we look.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And so they had to come up with new ways to try to explain a way the lack of transitional forms in the fossil record.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is now become a big controversy in paleontology.

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, can we understand the fossil record through an evolutionary lens despite the fact

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_00]: that we're not finding these transitional forms?

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Or at least when we do find them, they're very, very rare kind of like even a broken clock is right twice a day coming in.

[00:13:06] Yeah.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, again, you had ideas.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I remember Niles, Eldridge and Stephen J. Gould were coming up with a thing, again,

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_03]: big words punctuate equilibrium.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_03]: But they're saying, well, all that evolution took place over there behind the curtain.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And then it just shows up.

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's a little difficult to come up because then you're just saying,

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_03]: well, I'm going to just say, way, we didn't expect to see them.

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's, I think not exactly the best scientific answer to a serious investigation of the fossil record.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Is it?

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Very well put, Kirby.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So punctuate equilibrium is the idea that when you do have these transitions happening when one

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_00]: species evolves into another, they will say that, oh, the transitions happen so quickly.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And the populations were so small that there were not enough opportunities for any of those transitional

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_00]: organisms to actually get preserved as fossils.

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So I like to use this analogy.

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's say that I gave you a VHS tape.

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, okay, if you watch this VHS tape, I promise, remember VHS tapes, right?

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you watch this VHS tape, I promise you there are a leprechauns on this tape.

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Now they're too small and they're too fast to be seen, but I promise you they're on there.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Would you believe me?

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_00]: You would say, well, you're not giving me any reason to believe that there are leprechauns

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_00]: if you're telling me that they're too small and too fast to be seen.

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_00]: But that's basically what punctuating equilibrium says about the fossil record.

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_00]: It says, yes, these evolutionary transitions did happen.

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, one type of organism evolved into another.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_00]: But all the record of that didn't get preserved because it happened in populations.

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_00]: They were too small and too short lived to allow for these transitional forms to get

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_00]: fossilized.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So I find it to be a very convenient explanation.

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It's basically a theory that predicts you will find no confirming evidence.

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't find that to be a very compelling scientific explanation.

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't either.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Another issue is that in the Cambrian Cambrian, and then you're pre Cambrian, in court

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_03]: you can go to England where you guys were and see where those are.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_03]: But you have, if indeed you believe the fossil record is history over time, you don't

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_03]: have any creatures of any sort and then bang you have all of them.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Some people refer to that as evolutionary, big bang, if you will.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And that was a real problem for Charles Darwin.

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And it hasn't gotten any better, has it?

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, that's absolutely true.

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Darwin knew that when you look at the fossil record, there's this abrupt appearance of animals.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_00]: He didn't call it the Cambrian.

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_00]: By the way, little interesting fact, I always thought I didn't know where the word Cambrian

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_00]: came from and when I was in England recently, apparently it's the name of Wales basically.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Part of some rocks that originally were from Wales.

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And so but this has been known for quite a while since people started studying the

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_00]: fossil record that basically most of the major groups of animals today we call them the

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_00]: animal phyla.

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_00]: They appear abruptly in the fossil record in the Cambrian period without any apparent direct

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_00]: evolutionary precursors.

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I think Richard Dawkins has this great quote where he says, it's as if they were just

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_00]: planted there without any evolutionary history.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And so this also has been a real problem for evolutionary biologists.

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_00]: How do we explain this rapid appearance of the major groups of animals without any clear

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_00]: evolutionary ancestors?

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's exactly what you would not expect if evolution is true of Darwinian evolutionist

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_00]: who it is however very consistent with the idea of an intelligent design.

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Where basically you can have an intelligent agent that can rapidly introduce large amounts

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_00]: of information into the world because what is going on?

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_00]: These new types of organisms, they all have different body plants.

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Well body plants require information in their DNA in order for them to exist.

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So an intelligent agent can rapidly produce large amounts of information and introduce

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_00]: that into the biosphere which is reflected in this abrupt appearance.

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_00]: It's the same way the engineers will generate technology when Apple comes out with a new iPhone.

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_00]: They don't put out some little fraction of a transitional iPhone out.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_00]: No, they will put out a fully functional form into the world so it can be used.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And we see the same kind of pattern existing over and over again in the fossil record.

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_00]: It's very consistent with design.

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_03]: When other one I might just pick on since I know you know geology is we've already talked

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_03]: about the absence of missing links, absent or transitional fossils.

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_03]: The unbelievable abrupt appearance not only in the Cambrian level but elsewhere but one other issue and that's what we call

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_03]: stasis.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And that is when you see some of these creatures in the fossil record and I've added chance to look at many of those

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_03]: in anybody's ever been to a museum has.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_03]: They're fully formed and you can look at a horseshoe crab in the fossil record.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Looks like a horseshoe crab out there.

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_03]: You can look at the first bat in the fossil record, the first purpose in the fossil record.

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_03]: The first whale.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I know one of your colleagues has talked about icons of evolution in his second version about zombie science

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_03]: and said, well, that's something like a hippopotamus turned into a whale but the bottom line is whenever you see

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_03]: one of these creatures in the fossil record they look a lot like what we see today and so again

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_03]: that's another problem is it not for what you would be considered to be an evolutionary prediction?

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So of course evolution the word basically just means change, right?

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_00]: But what happens when you don't see change?

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_00]: You see that's in some change.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_00]: You see things saying the same, that an evolutionary biology parlance has used said curvius called stasis

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and there are so many examples of stasis.

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just bringing up a presentation I gave a couple years ago because you stole my favorite example

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_00]: of the horseshoe crab already.

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a great example.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_00]: But you can look at certain types of mollus like limpant like organisms.

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And dating back hundreds of millions of years they look almost identical to what you would find today.

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Snails that go back a hundred million years which shells that look exactly like they do today

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_00]: about 10 years ago I have the opportunity to go visit the Burgess Shale which is one of these

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_00]: famous, yes exactly one of the famous sites where you find the Cambrian explosion fossils and I found

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_00]: this worm like creature called a toya and it looks almost exactly like a living pre-pulid worm

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and the differences are almost negligible and this is 500 million years old according to the

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_00]: conventional view and yet it's almost identical.

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Horseshoe crabs, great example, shrimps that go back hundreds of millions of years, clams,

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_00]: etc etc.

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_00]: There's so many examples of organisms that just haven't changed for hundreds of millions of years.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So of course you know an evolutionary perspective will say well they were not experiencing any

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_00]: selection pressure to cause them to change.

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't want to change.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay fine but then this makes you wonder okay well you're saying that things can change within just

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_00]: you know a few hundred years and yet things stay the same for hundreds of millions of years

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_00]: without ever needing to change. The story just isn't it's not consistent, doesn't add up.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Well again it's one of those situations where if you're in a biology class and the

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_03]: students say to the biology teacher I don't see evolution taking place today and they say well

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_03]: that's because it takes place over a long period of time and then they go into their geology class

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_03]: and they say I don't see these missing links well that's because evolution took place too fast

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_03]: and it's not recorded in the falsetto record and after a while okay on one it's too fast on the

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_00]: other too slow is that a problem? Well you kind of you know every thing turns into special

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_00]: pleading you know you need to have it evolution needs to be just fast enough.

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_00]: You won't leave the transitional forms but just slow enough that you have enough time

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_00]: to build up this variation that is needed to generate new species so I see sort of this whole

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_00]: explanation for how transitions work to be sort of a form of special pleading it just has to be just

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_03]: right like a gold elox kind of argument. Well we're come back and get into that a little bit more

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_03]: and of course all the idea of some of these characteristics and functionality at the level of the cell

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_03]: and all the rest. Casey Luskin with us if you'd like to join us again you can give us a call 1800 3511212

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_03]: but you probably just want to sit back and take some notes let me just mention real quickly that as we

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[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_02]: London, two towering historical figures did battle not with guns and bombs but words and ideas

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[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_02]: The opinions expressed on point of view do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_02]: staff of the station and now here again is Kirby Anderson. In studio with me again today in this

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_03]: first hour Casey Leskin a scientist in attorney again in his role at Discovery Institute the

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_03]: associate director of Center for Science and Culture Dr. Leskin of course has a multiple number

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_03]: of degrees in areas of science as well as law but I thought we'd come back to our science background

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_03]: and a minute ago we talked about DNA but there's a different aspect if you open up any of the

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_03]: textbooks and I did mention a book that I oftentimes really commend to students and teachers

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_03]: icons of evolution because they talk about the peppered moth, biston, vetsul area and a Darwin's

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_03]: fentures as well as the fraudulent heckle ember is an old rest. One of the so-called arguments

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_03]: revolution is that we have leftover appendages we have certain non-functional organs and at the

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_03]: molecular level we have what's called junk DNA. Now I could see your eyes light up on junk DNA

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_03]: because originally what was seen is junk DNA we now find has a very legitimate function doesn't it?

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah so if you look back through the history of genetics over the last 50-60 years you find that

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_00]: initially many evolutionary biologists said that a very large proportion of the human genome

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_00]: basically doesn't need to be there is just a genetic junk they call it junk DNA and it's the

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_00]: result of millions of years of evolutionary mutations just producing useless evolutionary debris

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_00]: and your genome is largely junk but and this idea helps wait for many decades in biology

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_00]: but I would say in the last 10 or 15 years we have seen a huge revolution in molecular biology

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_00]: that has now shown that no the vast majority of our genome is not junk DNA that in fact

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_00]: this junk DNA in fact is functional. Now what's interesting though is that this idea that the junk

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_00]: DNA would turn out to have function this was a prediction of intelligent design. There you go

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and so I've been following the debate for a while curvy. I've had people say to me you know when

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I first got involved this was in the late 90s early 2000s people would say no designer would put all

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_00]: this useless junk DNA into the genome this refutes in television design this is before the days of the

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_00]: human genome project before we had really studied a lot of the genome to know how it works

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and so I would say well look you could end up being right I will but I'm going to make a prediction

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be very bold right now I'm going to put in television design on the chopping block

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and make a prediction saying you know what we're going to actually find out that this junk is largely

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_00]: functional and low and behold as we started to study the genome more and more we have discovered

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_00]: that there is huge amount of function in what was once considered to be the junk DNA

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_00]: and so what is the junk DNA doing it's you know we talked about some of our DNA codes for proteins

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_00]: it's protein coding DNA but there's other DNA that is not code for proteins that's the non-coding

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and for the most part not all of it but a very large proportion that non-coding DNA is what

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_00]: it was said to be the junk well it turns out that that non-coding DNA far from being junk

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_00]: it's so important because it's actually regulating and controlling the DNA that doesn't code

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_00]: the proteins it tells your body when to produce a protein how much to produce when to stop

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_00]: producing it in what in response to what external stimuli should you be producing these proteins

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_00]: so in some ways the non-coding DNA or you know what is an often called the junk DNA controls

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_00]: the blueprint that basically is running the genome and turning all your genes on an often telling

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_00]: them when to do what they need to do so the junk DNA is hugely important and I think this idea

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_00]: of junk DNA there's actually an article that came out in a scientific journal a couple of years ago

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_00]: that said that the days of junk DNA are over in this so junk DNA has now been really it's

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_00]: on its way out in the scientific community and this is a huge successful prediction of intelligent

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_03]: well again you were just in England of course with Bolons and others and that's where Watson

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_03]: and Crick said we have found a few well the language of life we found the secret to life

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_03]: and again let's go back to predictions for just a minute because all the way through you have

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_03]: the predictions evolutionists would make and then they have been falsified now if you go back to

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_03]: your article I think the first quote you have is from Carl Poper who actually talks about the idea

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_03]: theories need to be falsified or Thomas Cune the structure scientific revolution of those people

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_03]: are writing about the fact that you would make these predictions and sometimes the predictions fail

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_03]: and then science progresses because of it but if I'm keeping count here I think evolutionists are

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_03]: over three right now in terms of at least what we've talked about and that doesn't necessarily mean

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_03]: the theory of evolution is wrong but it means that you need to really have a rethinking and isn't

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_03]: it fair to say that even some evolutionists are now saying you know this theory that Charles Darwin

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_03]: came up with it was working okay kind of as a 19th century theory but we're in the 21st century now

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_00]: we just know a whole lot more well let's recap the predictions really quick we first looked at

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_00]: biochemical complexity and as you said iridespoch complexity that Darwinian evolution cannot explain

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_00]: these complex features then we talked about the fossil record how evolution predicted these

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_00]: transitional forms and we don't find them you know very rarely do we find anything that's a potential

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_00]: transitional form and then now we're talking about junk DNA and evolution predicted that the vast majority

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_00]: of our genome would be useless junk we now know that that junk can be very very functional so over and

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_00]: over again we see that these predictions of evolution are going value out and so how do you tell

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_00]: the scientific theory is a good theory or not well one of the ways you do that is you look at

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_00]: whether or not it's making good predictions whether it's good at guiding your scientific research

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_00]: and telling you what's true and over and over again with evolution we find it making bad

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_00]: predictions so the good news though Kirby is that yes although you know I think that evolution is

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_00]: is making a lot of these bad predictions scientists are beginning to realize that the standard

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_00]: neodar wynion model evolution needs to be rethought in fact in the journal nature about 10 years ago

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_00]: they had a pair of articles that said do it does evolution need a rethink one from scientists

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_00]: said no but the other one said yes and then in 2016 talking about the UK the world's society

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_00]: of land and had a conference where they were basically asking if we need to talk about revising

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_00]: the theory of evolution and some of the speakers there said yeah there are major problems

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_00]: with the standard neodar wynion model so that's the good news the bad news is that I think that

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_00]: they're still looking at sort of blind materialistic evolutionary models but my prediction

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_00]: for what I think is going to happen is that they're looking at these new evolutionary models

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_00]: they're going sort of beyond Darwinism it's going to take them some time to realize

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_00]: that these new evolutionary models they don't work either and eventually they're going to

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_00]: realize if the whole sort of idea of blind materialistic evolution just does it work but at least

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_03]: we're seeing progress in the right direction and again we've been critical of evolution let's look

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_03]: at intelligent design for just a minute one of the people I suspect you know and we've had

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_03]: on the program before Nancy Piercy she's always heard people say you know the trouble with

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_03]: intelligent design it's it's a science stopper it keeps you from investigating certain things

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_03]: because you just say well god did it and her argument is that not only is intelligent

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_03]: design not a science stopper it's a science starter and if indeed you started with the assumption

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_03]: that there's junk DNA why would you investigate that in the first place exactly if intelligent

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_00]: design was guiding the paradigm of biology we would have discovered the function for

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_00]: junk DNA much much earlier in fact there's even been articles in the scientific community I think

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_00]: of an article in the journal science had said the idea of junk DNA actually repelled researchers

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_00]: from studying what it's doing so they're admitting that actually this evolutionary paradigm

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_00]: has stopped science so I think yeah there's many examples we're intelligent design

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_00]: can help us do good science another example is engineering and biology you were talking about the

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_00]: the icons of evolution curvy and another icon I don't know if we have enough time to get it but

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_00]: so that old you've seen this diagram in your textbook that shows the structure of the vertebrate limb

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and it will show like the structure of homology the structure of the limb of a dog and a whale

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and a bat and a human being and saying look the structure the basic bone structure the vertebrate

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_00]: limb is very similar across all these different organisms and they will say the explanation has to be

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_00]: that they inherited this common bone structure from a common ancestor and this similarity in

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_00]: the vertebrate bone structure in the limb is evidence for common ancestry but what if there's

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_00]: another way to explain why we have a similar bone structure what if the reason for that bone

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_00]: structure is because it's a good design it's a good engineering structure that provides us with a

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_00]: very versatile structure for doing lots of different movements whether you want to fly or swim or walk

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_00]: or whatever well here's an update I don't think anybody has really talked about this publicly yet

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_00]: a British engineer named Stuart Burgess he's professor at the University of Bristol in the UK

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_00]: just about a month ago has published an article in a mainstream bioengineering journal

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_00]: where he looked at the vertebrate limb and found that its design is actually a very good

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_00]: engineering design that gives it great versatility, great dexterity and he basically said look

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_00]: we don't need to explain the origin of the vertebrate limb simply through common ancestry

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_00]: we can say that they're a good functional reasons for reusing this design over and over again

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and by the way Stuart Burgess is a proponent of intelligence design and I'm very proud to say

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_00]: that his research was funded by Discovery Institute where I work so this is intelligence

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_00]: design doing good science helping us to understand how organisms work, not in the context of

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_00]: evolutionary common ancestry but in the context of what does good engineering look like and that's

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_03]: what intelligence design can help us do. And again it is something that they probably can add to

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_03]: an updated version of icons of evolution there. I also, by the way they also use the idea

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_03]: of the Corvette but since we're coming to a break we won't talk about that one because it's one of

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_03]: those kind of circular arguments because evolution gave us common structures but we use common

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_03]: structures to argue for evolution and I know enough about logic to know that doesn't work very

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_03]: well. Let's take a break though guys we have a few more things to talk about with Casey Luskin

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_03]: and if you would like to listen to it again let me just mention that we have an opportunity for

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_03]: you to click on that button this says watch or listen maybe you'd like to listen to it again

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_03]: or pause every once in a while since we're covering a lot of material or pass it on to some

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_03]: skeptics that maybe has some questions we'll be right back.

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I think you guys just heard about and Cambridge so you're hearing it first here on point of view but

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I remember back in icons of evolution there's a man by the name Dr. Barra bearous blunder as you

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_03]: remember this and he was saying you know when we look at Corvets we can see how this one

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Corvets sort of evolved into another Corvet and the problem with that is Corvets don't evolve they are

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_00]: what intelligently designed exactly they called it bearous blunder as you know Kirby because he took this

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_00]: intelligently designed sequence and claimed that it was evidence for evolution when no it actually showed

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_00]: how technology can be designed by intelligent agents so great great example and again we've mentioned

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_03]: that book icons of evolution first of all I remember when I was speaking a while back to a group in

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_03]: really hostile group which sometimes we run into but at the end I said look I've already shown you

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_03]: a little bit though the heckles embryos that is fraudulent of the pit bistend betulere the

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_03]: peppered moth that really is making an extrapolation that isn't true uh Doran's Finches really

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_03]: doesn't show anything there's just a variation around a mean and then we're gonna get you to talk

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_03]: about the a-pumen link and I said we know that most of what's in these textbooks is wrong

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_03]: and you're paying for that with your tax dollars so even if you disagree with some of

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_03]: things I've just pointed out I think I have shown you that you are actually teaching false

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_03]: information and your tax dollars in the state of Florida paying for those what you thought

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_00]: no absolutely I mean Jonathan Wells was a biologist from P.E.C. from UC Berkeley

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_00]: wrote the book icons of evolution and what he really did curvy is he raised the public's consciousness

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_00]: to see that how a huge amount of what biology textbooks teach about evolutionist false

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_00]: if you go to my office at Discovery Institute the whole wall of my office is nothing but biology

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_00]: textbooks and you open just by any of them up and those icons are there so this is a real

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_00]: thing students are actually being taught unfortunately inaccurate information so what we say

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Discovery Institute is that students should learn both the evidence for and also a

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_00]: dense evolution if they can learn the case for evolution and there's all these flaws in that case

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_00]: there's no reason we shouldn't be able to teach them about that and let them build their critical

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_00]: taking skills and learn it for themselves okay how about that chapter I know you're going to speak

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_03]: in all that tonight and that is the eight to human links and all of that give us some uh

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_00]: if you will physical anthropology here sure sure so yeah tonight I'll be at the University of

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Estales for the reasonable phase chapter talking about human origins and the basic to sort of

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_00]: spoil what my talk is going to be about we're going to talk about both genetics and fossils but on the

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_00]: fossil record side of things when we look at the hominid fossil record what we see is a major gap

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_00]: in the hominid fossil record where a group called the hospital epitiscene which is this

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_00]: ape-like group of hominids where they supposedly evolved into our genus homo we are of course

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_00]: homo species sapiens and when the homo body plant appears in the fossil record it's very

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_00]: very human like I mean it looks very very much like modern humans today many people have even said

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_00]: that the earliest members of homo should be classified within our own species homo sapiens okay

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and so you there's this distinct gap in the hominid fossil record that corresponds to

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_00]: directly to where the human-like body plant appears in the fossil record and they'll save

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_00]: it evolved from this genus of ape-like organisms called the optimal pithicines but we don't see

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_00]: intermediates that supposedly document how that evolutionary transition happened so basically

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_00]: we're one of the most important things happened in the fossil record the human like body

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_00]: plant first appearing we don't see evidence for that for that evolutionary transition going back

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_00]: to what we talked about earlier some commentators have actually called this a big bang

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_00]: theory of human evolution okay from an evolutionary perspective so when you hear words like

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_00]: abrupt appearance you know punctuated glibrium what that basically means is that the evidence

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_00]: for the evolutionary story that's being told isn't there and we see that in the case of humans

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_03]: and hominids yeah what about genetics because we're always here that though we have lots of

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_03]: genetic overlap between chimps and humans or of course we even have a molecular tree but again

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_03]: there's good evidence against that isn't there yes so you'll see you'll hear this statistic

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_00]: that says that humans are 99 or 98% similar in their DNA to a chip in fact I was it

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_00]: this Smithsonian Museum of Natural History in Washington you see last year in in uh I think summer

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_00]: of 2023 and they said right there at the Smithsonian that we are 98.8% genetically similar to a chip

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and guess what it is not true it is simply not true when you look at the peer review time

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_00]: of a glitorature the i found ranges from the maximum i find is 96% genetically similar to a chip

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_00]: but i found scientists who have estimated that we might be as low as like 85% genetically similar

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_00]: to a chip but the question has to be asked what is this even telling us you know because designers

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_00]: will reuse parts that work to sign this sorry series talking there designers will reuse parts

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_00]: that work in different designs we're talking in the last segment about doing good engineering design

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_00]: well what do designers do when you have a system or are a coding module in a computer program

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_00]: did perform some function that you want to perform you'll reuse it in another program and so yes

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_00]: it's true that humans and chimps are built upon a similar sort of genetic blueprint but that doesn't

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_00]: mean that that necessarily means that we shared a common ancestor back at very easily represent

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_00]: common design just as much as it represents common descent we could have been designed using similar

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_00]: genetic components so when we see that we are you know 98 99% similar to a chip number one it's not true

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_00]: but even if it was true that could be the result of common design the actual percentage of

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_00]: that similarity between humans and chimps is somewhere between 85 and 96% and the reason why

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_00]: there's such a wide range there is we really don't know for sure yet just how similar we are

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_00]: to chimps because all the versions of the chimped genomes that have been made so far they were built

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_00]: using the human genome as a scaffolding and even the NIH says that this is actually humanized

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_00]: the chimped grass or the genome so until we get sort of an original draft or the chimped genome

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we can even make these comparisons properly but I guarantee you it's going to be

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot less than those statistics that we typically see being quoted at us let me again suggest that

[00:40:57] [SPEAKER_03]: if you would like to know more okay and we have a link to discovery institute and they're just

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_03]: great resources there and there's a newsletter that you can sign up for if you would like to contact

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Casey Luskin we have his website there and if you have any kind of scientific background at

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_03]: all you don't have to have a graduate level this piece by Casey Luskin design and descent

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_03]: a contest of predictions gives you I guess we're in it up with over four for evolution and

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_03]: it's a five like that and that would be something you could read or pass on to someone else

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_03]: about ten pages long and it takes you through some of these arguments and a way that I think

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_03]: you can kind of really understand those and of course if you are anywhere near a place where he is

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_03]: speaking I would highly commend to go and hear some of his lectures I'm sure a lot of people

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_03]: like to hear your lecture tonight on the the a human link there as well but Casey great to meet

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_03]: you face to face and thanks for being with us today. Thanks for having me curious a lot of fun

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_03]: can take a break and when we come back we do have a presidential election tomorrow or at least

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_03]: debate tomorrow an election taking place very soon but let me light one last time as I point

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_03]: you to the website point of view.net recognize that for those of you in Illinois you might be in

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Piori it might be in Pekin we are going to have a luncheon it'll be at the five points events center

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_03]: there's a place for you to register and all of that information is available on our website

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_03]: just simply scroll down to that section on the right hand side and that will give you the

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_03]: information you need to know it's right under our election central says events registration

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_03]: my viewpoints commentaries there a video today on voting your biblical duty which I think you will

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_03]: appreciate as well and of course my viewpoints commentary and all the links that you will need

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_03]: to Casey Lescan and Discovery Institute is all at the website point of view.net

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_03]: well last time let me just mention if you go to that red button it says watch or listen if I

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_03]: you know somebody would like to hear this or see this you could actually click on that or if

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_03]: you'd like to listen to it again take kind of fast and furious you might want to listen to it a second

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_03]: time it's all available at our website point of view.net let's take a break we have a lot to cover

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_02]: next hour right after this it almost seems like we live in a different world from many people

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_02]: in positions of authority they say men can be women and women men people are prosecuted differently

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_02]: or not at all depending on their politics criminals are more valued and rewarded than law

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_02]: biting citizens it's overwhelming so demoralizing you feel like giving up but we can't we shouldn't

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_02]: we must not as Winston Churchill said to Britain in the darkest days of World War II never given

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_02]: never given never never never never never never yield to force never yield to the apparently

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_02]: overwhelming might of the enemy and that's what we say to you today this is not a time to give in

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_02]: but to step up and join point of view in providing clarity in the chaos we can't do it alone but

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_02]: together with God's help we will overcome the darkness invest in biblical clarity today at point of view.net

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_02]: or call 1-800-347-51-51 point of view.net and 8347-51-51

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_02]: point of view will continue after this