Point of View October 8, 2024 – Hour 1 : Faith-Based Medical Schools, Scripture Hymnal

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Across America, Live, this is Point of View, and now, Hannah Dexter.

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you very much for joining us ladies and gentlemen, so glad you're with us.

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Yesterday's programming, since it was pre-recorded, one of our best of programs,

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_01]: we did not get to acknowledge the one year anniversary of the massacre by Hamas of Israel one year ago,

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and we will do that later in the program. We've got some very interesting guests today.

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_01]: At the bottom of the hour, of this hour, we are going to be presenting a welcome publication,

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_01]: something a lot of people have been waiting for, and that is the Scripture Hymnal,

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Singing Scripture in Church or Azure Hymns. Many people only sing Scripture,

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_01]: but a lot of people just love to sing Scripture, a lot of believers,

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and there's been this wonderful, wonderful hymnal published. We'll talk about that.

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And then later in the program, Candy Noble, who is a Texas State Representative, will join me in studio.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Our main topic is going to be election integrity. Are we ready in Texas,

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and how about across the nation for the upcoming elections? Some people are already voting,

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and we will talk about that. Then we'll talk a little bit later also some things that Governor Walz said in the debate with Kamala Harris about abortion.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_01]: A woman died in this story that he mentioned, but his presentation of it was a distortion of really what happened.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So we will kind of clear the air on that. But right now, I'm excited to do this interview with Jason Graham.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the question I think we're going to discuss is, is going to the doctor, does it ever make you feel like a number in another culture or another society?

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_01]: A faith-based medical school would be welcome because just think of all the care and the compassion that the Christian faith would bring a doctor

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_01]: combining with their medical training. But there's been some pushback against that,

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and that is what we are going to discuss with Jason Graham.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_01]: He joined the faculty at Cedarville University as the inaugural director of the physician assistant program there.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Before that, he worked as a physician assistant with a sports medicine shoulder and knee surgeon for several years.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_01]: He's had some other prestigious jobs and education and then came back to Cedarville to take this position to develop the university's vision to start this PA program last year.

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_01]: He's got a BA in athletic training from Cedarville and also his master's in physician's assistant, I think I'm saying it correctly, from Eastern Virginia Medical School.

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Jason, thank you so much for joining me.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Hey, thanks, Penna. It's great to be here. I appreciate the introduction.

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm very glad to have you. And just tell us about, first of all, the physician assistant program at Cedarville.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_01]: It sounds fascinating.

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. So the PA program at Cedarville has been in development now for about five years.

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_04]: So I actually joined the faculty in 1999.

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry, not 1999.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_04]: In 2019, after having graduated from Cedarville in 1999.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_04]: And we've been developing a PA program that extends over 24 months of training.

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Thirteen months of that is actually in the classroom learning the information, learning how to care for patients,

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_04]: and learning across different body systems.

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_04]: And then we spend the last 11 months with those students actually out in four-week rotations where they're actually training with a provider,

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_04]: whether that's a physician or a PA or a nurse practitioner, learning how to care for patients within specified disciplines.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_04]: So family medicine, internal medicine, women's health, pediatrics, et cetera.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And so over those 24 months, we're equipping these students to be able to care well for patients.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_04]: We're one of 310 PA programs in the United States right now.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's just a joy to be able to train them at a place like Cedarville.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I consider my PA my doctor, really, because she's the one that I ask questions.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_01]: She's the one that takes the time to talk to me about things, give me good explanations.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And she can prescribe what I need.

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, she's just, I mean, I think the whole movement of having non-doctor medical personnel to help people,

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_01]: it just makes medicine better because you're so well trained.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, we've been, PAs have been around for 50 years now, 50-plus years.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_04]: We have been specifically trained to help extend the reach of a physician to be able to care for more patients,

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_04]: to be able to extend access to patients who need to get into the physician.

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_04]: There's nothing worse than needing to get in and calling and having to get an appointment three weeks from now.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_04]: So there have been some good studies along the way that have shown PAs to be making it easier for patients to get access to care,

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_04]: providing excellent care, and patients really appreciate what we do, just like you said.

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And so there's a, PAs are not the first non-physician provider.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_04]: They extend back thousands of years, actually.

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_04]: But it is something that we are doing here in the United States.

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a great help to people who need care in the medical world.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Ladies and gentlemen, we've posted an article by Alex McCollum, who is one of the students from Cedarville, from this program.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And so you might want to check that out during the break.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's a physician's assistant student at Cedarville.

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_01]: But what he writes about is, Jason, the pushback, the idea that there's been actually challenges to accrediting this program,

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_01]: which just because it's faith-based, I mean, we're seeing that in lots of other disciplines.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_01]: But it just seems like that makes absolutely no sense,

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_01]: because the medical field is supposed to be all about care and compassion.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And Christianity certainly is known for that.

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_01]: So what happened?

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so actually there was a move back in the spring where a state chapter developed a resolution that they proposed to our American Academy of PAs,

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_04]: their House of Delegates, that met in May.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_04]: And the resolution basically suggested that the American Academy strongly oppose PA programs that had a specific or stringent admissions requirement

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_04]: as it related to criteria for admission, such as religious or philosophical ideas or alignment.

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_04]: They also threw in, you know, ideas about gender or sexual orientation and some other things.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_04]: And then specifically said, you know, we also encourage the accreditation body, the accrediting body,

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_04]: to not accredit programs that had such stringent criteria.

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_04]: And that resolution was brought to the floor in May.

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And both Alex, who you just mentioned, who wrote the op-ed, and myself were able to testify in opposition to that resolution.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_04]: And basically, interestingly enough, the rationale that they gave for that particular resolution was specifically targeting our program.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_04]: They linked off to our website.

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_04]: They linked off to some of the things that we had in our admissions pages

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_04]: and really sort of put us in a bad light, suggesting that maybe we weren't worthy of accreditation in some way,

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_04]: or suggesting that we shouldn't be accredited simply because of our beliefs

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_04]: or because of the alignment that we would expect of our students coming into the program.

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Let me jump in because we're about to hit the break.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_01]: But, ladies and gentlemen, if you want to ask Jason a question, give us a call, 800-351-1212.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_01]: But I am going to ask, you know, how this turned out

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and also just kind of get some insight into what goes on in Cedarville.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_01]: It sounds very exciting.

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll be right back.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_03]: This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Tariffs are in the news and are being debated between candidates.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_00]: In the past, tariffs have been used to protect domestic industries and provide an additional source of revenue.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_00]: The downsides of tariffs is that they increase the cost to consumers

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_00]: and can lead to retaliation from other countries.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Dominic Parno posted the number 4,392.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the number of pages in the harmonized tariff schedule of the United States.

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Before you even get to the first section, there are 900 pages of notes and rules for interpretation.

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_00]: He explains that once you get into the actual tariffs, you learn how tariffs have been manipulated to favor certain companies and countries and not others.

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's look, for example, at the tariffs on imported meat.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_00]: The edible part of a turkey that is not cut in pieces, frozen or valued at less than $0.88 per kilogram is taxed at $8.8 per kilogram.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_00]: But if the value is $0.88 or more per kilogram, it is taxed at 10%.

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_00]: But if it's not cut in pieces and is fresh or chilled rather than frozen, then it is taxed at $0.15 per kilogram, regardless of valuation.

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_00]: But if you take the time to look at 17 separate trade agreements, you will find cases where the meat is not taxed.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Imported knitted or crocheted fabrics of a width not exceeding 30 centimeters that contain a weight of 5% or more of elastomeric yarn but no rubber thread that has been made out of cotton are taxed at 8.8%.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Then other materials are taxed at 8%.

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_00]: It should be obvious by now that most of these tariffs aren't listed to protect the consumer but to give one company an advantage in the marketplace.

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Kirby Anderson and that's my point of view.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_03]: For a free copy of Kirby's booklet, A Biblical View on Antisemitism, go to viewpoints.info slash antisemitism.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_03]: viewpoints.info slash antisemitism.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_03]: You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to Point of View.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Pena Dexter and my guest is Jason Graham from Cedarville University.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And there's something that's called patient burnout, also another term, doctor avoidance.

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_01]: These are both treated in the article that we posted at pointofview.net.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And that article is titled Just Another Patient or Made in the Image of God.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_01]: It's in the Washington Times.

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_01]: But you can go and read that.

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_01]: It's very good.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And Jason is, I guess, his teacher and the head of the program at Cedarville University.

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_01]: This young man, Alex McCollum, chose that program because he wanted his job as a physician's assistant to be also sort of missional.

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And he thought he would get that at Cedarville.

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And he does, doesn't he, Jason?

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Our whole intention is to try to not only equip the students to be academically prepared and to be able to do good as a PA,

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_04]: but we also want to disciple them and to train them to think biblically and scripturally about the patients that they're actually engaging with,

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_04]: as well as some of the things that are going on in health care today.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we live in a secularized society that does not want to think scripturally or biblically or ethically about certain things.

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_04]: And we certainly have principles of scripture that can apply to these situations.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_04]: And we want to train our students to be able not only to care well for patients physically,

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_04]: but also to be able to care for them emotionally as well as spiritually because we are made in the image of God.

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_04]: And if we come to medicine with that mindset, it changes the way that we approach the care that we give,

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_04]: as well as our enjoyment in the process and how we serve the Lord and further his kingdom in medicine.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I just wonder at the root of the opposition that you had is not something that is sort of the elephant in the room here in the medical community right now.

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And that is the idea that young people who present with emotional or physical problems are treated by recommendations

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_01]: that they might need a gender transition type of surgery or at least medication and just all those things that go with it that we talk about so much today.

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And I just heard an interview today with a former Texas state legislator who actually was opposing legislation

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_01]: or actually supporting legislation in Texas that would prevent that kind of surgery being done on minors.

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And this person got so much.

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_01]: She was a Democrat and she ended up leaving the Democrat Party because her party was absolutely dogmatic about the need for such surgeries.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think we're seeing that in the medical community sometimes.

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm sure Cedarville is a welcome respite from that.

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, so if you approach medical health care as a consumer model, which means that I'm a clinician or a provider,

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_04]: and I even bristle at using that word provider because it simply communicates that I'm there to only provide what my patients ask of me.

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Like a product.

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_04]: And the reality is they're made in the image of God, and I have to treat them as such regardless of what they think might be best for them.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_04]: As a health care professional, my professional role is to only provide them the care that's going to actually treat them properly.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_04]: And so we can't just simply be a vending machine where we just simply have patients show up and demand particular care if it's not in their best interest.

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_04]: That may mean that we don't always agree with our patients and they may not always agree with us,

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_04]: but part of the health care model is that we give patients the autonomy to be able to decide whether or not they want their care here

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_04]: or do they want to go to another place that will provide them simply what they ask for.

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_04]: And so you're right.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_04]: There is a sense in which some of this is coming down to personal autonomy.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And when we elevate personal autonomy, this is sort of the kind of health care that we get where you can demand radical surgery,

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_04]: you can demand medical sterilization and medications that were designed to treat hormone imbalances

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_04]: to actually do something that's contrary to the image of God and the way that he created an individual to be.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_04]: And so, yeah, I do think there is a sense in which this is just them trying to oppose anybody that would come to medicine

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_04]: with that particular worldview.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Did they actually bring this issue up?

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_04]: This wasn't the specific issue that they brought up,

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_04]: although there were some concerns listed in the rationale for their resolution related to our opposition

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_04]: to either same-sex attraction or gender dysphoria and some of those kind of things.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_04]: They were pretty adamant that because we were intolerant of certain viewpoints,

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_04]: they would not allow us to be able to be accredited, which is somewhat intolerant of them.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's just kind of the two-faced or kind of irrationality that we were facing with some of this.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, because I think the word compassion gets abused sometimes in these debates,

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_01]: having to do with gender dysphoria especially.

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I call it false compassion when you have this recommendation for something that's so much worse,

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_01]: just the mutilation of someone's body.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And yet what Alex wanted when he came to Cedarville and what he's getting

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_01]: is learning how to combine medical care with compassion.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's true compassion for the person.

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_01]: But compassion doesn't always just cater to feelings.

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_01]: It actually helps someone, even though maybe the help that they're getting

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_01]: is not something that they think they need.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So you have to bring people along to what's best for them sometimes.

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And this is no way us saying, hey, we don't treat people like that.

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_04]: We actually do.

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_04]: We have an open-door policy to treat anybody who comes to us with care and compassion

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_04]: that they deserve as being made in the image of God.

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_04]: And there are certain things that professionally with our own conscience rights,

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_04]: as right of conscience as a provider,

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_04]: can not be forced to do something that we don't necessarily believe in.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_04]: And to be honest with you, some of the medical literature that's now coming out

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_04]: in places from Europe and especially from England with the CAST report

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_04]: suggesting that the treatments that they were offering and they said were going to be so helpful

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_04]: have actually no evidence base whatsoever

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_04]: and therefore are being perpetuated without any scientific rationale.

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we're behind the curve there, aren't we?

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we actually are, surprisingly so.

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, are there other schools, Jason?

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Are you sort of a pioneer there at Cedarville?

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_01]: But are there other schools that are trying to put in these PA programs like you have?

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Interestingly enough, some of my own research penitentiary

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_04]: is that there are about 80 schools out of the 310 that are located within,

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_04]: I would call, faith-based institutions.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_04]: And that would run the gamut from Jewish institutions to Catholic institutions

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_04]: to evangelical or Christian institutions, Seventh-day Adventists.

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_04]: So there's a wide variety of faith-based institutions that house PA programs.

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_04]: When you sort of limit it down to maybe what we call Christian schools,

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_04]: we're talking about maybe 15 or 16.

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_04]: When we talk about evangelical schools, we're maybe down to about three or four.

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_04]: What made us unique was that we actually said, you know,

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_04]: as an institution, our mission at Cedarville University

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_04]: is to intentionally equip academically and to disciple the students that God brings to us

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_04]: in order to transform their lives.

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_04]: And we do that based on the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_04]: And so our mission is really not to be evangelistic in terms of, you know,

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_04]: hey, we want people to come here no matter what their faith,

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_04]: and we want to show them what Christ looks like.

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_04]: We specifically are trying to take Christians who are interested in furthering their discipleship

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_04]: and understanding of scriptures and how that applies to their discipline at Cedarville University.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_04]: So what made us unique was that we were requiring simply a statement of faith in Jesus Christ

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_04]: for salvation on the application.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_04]: And that was all that we were requiring.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_04]: We weren't asking them to sign a doctrinal statement.

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_04]: We weren't asking for a complete agreement with everything that Cedarville teaches necessarily.

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_04]: But that was a bridge too far for this particular organization.

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's what brought the opposition, which fortunately was voted down several times through the meeting in May.

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_04]: But unfortunately, I doubt that it will be the last time we hear about it.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_04]: But we are a little bit unique in the way that we're approaching PA education,

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_04]: but certainly not outside of the norm.

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_04]: We have to meet the same accreditation standards that every other program does.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_04]: And so we're about ready to do for an accreditation visit in about three weeks.

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, we're putting all of our ducks in a row and getting everything ready so that we can, you know,

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_04]: show that we're doing the same work that every other PA program is doing

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_04]: and training our students from the biblical worldview and able to do it well.

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_01]: It sounds wonderful.

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And I have now a new knowledge of a new school that I would recommend to young people.

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I've always admired Cedarville University, but this is wonderful.

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm so grateful that you put this story out.

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And I would love to hear back from you once you have your accreditation intact

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_01]: and hear if there was any, you know, any trouble there.

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I hope not.

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I pray not.

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And just to be clear, we actually already have accreditation.

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_04]: This is our second hurdle out of three for new startup programs.

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_04]: And so we already have accreditation.

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_04]: We've already been approved by the accreditors once.

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_04]: This is our second look as we go through our initial phases,

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_04]: and we'll have one more look in about two more years.

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_04]: So if anybody's thinking about our program, just know that we are accredited

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_04]: and have already met all the standards that we have to meet.

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Wonderful.

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, listen, thank you for just giving us this heads up, this look into your program.

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad that you did.

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll have you back.

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Let us know how it all comes out.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Next up, we're going to talk about a new book.

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a scripture hymnal.

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll be back.

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[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And now, here again is Pena Dexter.

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, anybody who is a strong Bible-believing Christian wants to have more Scripture in their heart.

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm talking to you right now.

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Have you tried to memorize Scripture?

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Some people are more disciplined at doing that than others.

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_01]: It's harder for some, easier for some.

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And so, it's wonderful, though, when you sing Scripture, how easy it is to remember it.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Just singing it.

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what it is about the melody that helps our minds to remember it.

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_01]: But that is the reason for what I have in front of me right now,

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_01]: which is a beautiful new book that I think has been waited for a long time.

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_01]: It's called the Scripture Hymnal.

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's really a new collection of more than 100 word-for-word Bible passages set to original music.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's going to be available just later this month, October 21st, from Rabbit Room Press.

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_01]: They put this together.

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_01]: It's 320 pages.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And it brings to fruition the Long Hill Vision of Dove Award-nominated Slugs and Bugs creator, Randall Goodgame.

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_01]: He is my guest today on the program.

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And let me just tell you a little bit more about him before I bring him into the conversation.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_01]: He's a singer-songwriter.

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And he did found the world-renowned Slugs and Bugs 10-album Family Music Series.

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_01]: There's also 26 episodes of it via streaming and home video.

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_01]: So lots of folks who are parents out there especially are familiar with this.

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_01]: But now with this new book, this project is directed not just toward children but also toward adults.

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And Randall Goodgame is the one that pulled it all together.

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_01]: He has 15 albums to his credit, and he has contributed to many recordings.

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_01]: He has lots of friends in the music world, and many of them collaborated on this hymnal.

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Randall, thank you so much for joining me today.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much, Ben.

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_02]: It is an honor to be here.

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's an honor to have you.

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And seeing this hymnal, how long has it been sort of something that's been a dream of yours?

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_02]: So the specific dream of this particular project, there's really a moment in October of 2021 where it just felt like the Lord put it on my heart that the church could grow in the same way that I've seen so many families grow in their knowledge and love of Scripture by experiencing it through music.

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_02]: But it probably really started back when I started teaching my kids, writing melodies for my kids to help them memorize Scripture.

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_02]: This is 20, 25 years ago.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Some churches, some faiths or I guess denominations within the Christian faith, they only sing Psalms or they think that going on and be outside that is not good.

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't believe that, but I love singing Scripture and Psalms.

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think a lot of people have been waiting for something like this.

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_01]: You've got – tell us about your collaborators and how you work together on this.

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, so there were a lot of folks that came into the project.

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_02]: After I had probably written 30 or 40 songs, I started to recognize the need for other voices.

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I started seeing patterns in my songwriting process that I thought, oh, I don't want these to become repetitive.

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So I have a great friend here in town, an old friend named Andrew Osinga, who's done a lot of work bringing collaborative groups together.

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And we've both been in Nashville for so long.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_02]: We really just called a bunch of friends that we knew that are just terrific songwriters and that love the Bible, love the gospel.

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And there ended up being about 12 other contributors all told.

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_01]: So how did the process work?

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_01]: How did you imagine to – manage to collaborate?

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So they actually came over here where I'm standing right now to my office here in Nashville in the backyard of our house.

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_02]: We're surrounded by a great big garden.

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And I had picked out a bunch of scriptures that had given me trouble, so I saved the hard ones for the group.

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And we divided up into groups.

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And people took scriptures and their guitars and pianos, other different parts of – there's a piano in my house and a piano I hear in my office.

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And we just would spend about an hour working on stuff and then come together and playing for each other and make comments about, oh, this is working.

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, just the – how the sausage gets made aspect of songwriting.

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_02]: But when you're handling scripture and you're with people that love it so much, there's really a sweet richness to the collaborative effort, especially knowing that the goal was to make sure these are congregational.

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Because that's really what the hope is.

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_02]: There have been lots of scripture songs written over the years, but very often they're not built for people to sing together.

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_02]: It's had that kind of ineffable quality of where folks can hear them one time and then sing them together, kind of like you hear a hymn at church.

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you know – do you have any explanation for the reason why we do so much better at remembering when it's set to music?

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I love what you said there at the beginning in the introductions.

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_02]: There is something just mysterious about music.

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And, of course, music is all through the Bible.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_02]: The Lord commands it and instructs it as part of worship.

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And so, obviously, he knows how we're made and what we need.

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But what I always say when it comes to singing scripture is all the meaning is there.

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_02]: All the meaning is in the words and by the spirit we get understanding.

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_02]: But there is something else that happens when we sing it.

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I get more out of it.

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_02]: It reaches deeper and it connects to my memory.

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_02]: The same way people talk about when you're sometimes doing things with your hands over and over and over again.

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_02]: You get that muscle memory.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_02]: There's something that happens with our memory and our body when we are singing.

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Everybody that probably is listening out there can relate to the experience of a song they haven't heard in 20 years coming on the radio.

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But they remember every word because they heard it when they were seven or ten years old.

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's really the goal of this whole project is that scripture would become that familiar to the church.

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned that you've tried to make these songs that they would apply to congregations and groups singing together.

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_01]: But also, an individual might purchase this book on October 21st or after for themselves.

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_01]: How can an individual use it?

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, sure.

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, just in the same way that Great is Thy Faithfulness and Holy, Holy, Holy, you know, serve me when I'm on my own, you know, in the garden pulling weeds.

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Individuals can get the book, and if they're piano players, they can just play along and sing along.

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_02]: But if they're not, there's a QR code in the book that they can pop open with their phone.

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And the whole list of songs online where they can listen and sing along, all the songs in the hymnal have been really masterfully recorded and produced by a friend of mine here in town named Kyle Stonewell.

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And all the different singers and players that came together to make those recordings is a whole other story.

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_02]: But they really are beautiful and will help folks kind of move into meditating and worship, even just on their own, without being in a congregation.

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_01]: That's wonderful.

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Isn't it wonderful that we have the technology for that today?

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, I can kind of foresee a time when you go to church and you've got your hymnal in the pews, but you've also got this book, and this is the one that gets used more often.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I just think it will be, you know, it'll probably take some time, although I'm sure you have a great marketing team to get this out there.

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you?

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_02]: We do.

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_02]: We have a great team.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So I've been really blessed to have the people around me that are trying to get the word out.

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, the most important part of it to me is everybody is they're all excited about it for the same reasons that I am.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_02]: We all want to be transformed from the inside out.

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we all desperately need Jesus.

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And when we encounter scripture, we have a chance to meet him every time.

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And so my team and other people that I know already are excited about it and talking about it, we're all kind of of one mind that the exciting part about this whole project is that it could lead to transformed lives and a transformed church.

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So I understand you've got a concert for the release of this just before the book actually goes on sale October 11th.

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_01]: What is that going to be?

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for mentioning it.

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't believe it's only a few days away now.

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_02]: October 11th here in Nashville, there is a big concert release celebration for the scripture hymnal.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_02]: It's the opening event for a conference here in town called Hutchmoot, which is put on by the Rabbit Room every year, celebrates art and faith and culture.

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's going to be a really fun night.

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of different singers helping lead.

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a choir.

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_02]: We've got a great band.

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_02]: There's some kids coming up to sing to try to help paint the picture and get the congregation in the crowd that they're singing along to all the different ways that the scripture hymnal can be useful.

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Like you said, congregational or personal worship.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_02]: The hymnal itself is divided into contemporary traditional and children's music.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Wonderful.

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Let me just jump in here because we've got a break.

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_01]: We will take your calls.

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_01]: 800-351-1212.

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll be back.

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_03]: You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Randall Goodgame is my guest and his new scripture hymnal is out.

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_01]: It will actually be released on the 21st of this month, October 21st.

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to find out more about it, you can go to pointofview.net and click through or the actual website, scripturehymnal.com.

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_01]: It's beautiful.

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_01]: It's also subtly and beautifully illustrated.

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's also done not – it's not dense.

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_01]: It's – I think it's easy because, first of all, these hymns are not long like some of the hymns that we find in a hymnal.

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_01]: They're mostly shorter versions, just taking a few lines of scripture.

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And, Randall, one thing I do know when I'm reading my Bible, it's a study Bible.

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And in the notes, I can see that this particular passage was a hymn that was sung.

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm sure that you have many of those, but how did you choose the scriptures?

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_01]: It must have taken some time to choose them, what you were going to include in here.

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, there is kind of a fascinating story.

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_02]: The year that I was – the year before, I realized I was supposed to write the hymnal.

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I had gone through the Bible in a year.

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I hadn't done that in probably 15 years.

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And from the first day of reading through the Bible in a year, every time I ran across a verse that I wanted to remember, I would make a note of it in my journal.

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So that started in January, and it was about October when I realized I was supposed to make a hymnal.

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So the first thing I did once I realized I needed to write a bunch of scripture songs was go through my own journal notes.

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_02]: So in a very real way, it felt like the Lord had prepared me ahead of time.

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But then I just – I went to friends, lots of pastors, and asked them if there was one scripture that you wish your congregation could sing over itself and sing to the Lord, what would it be?

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And lots of them got back to me with everybody had a different passage.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I did what you mentioned.

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I went through the scriptures and looked for songs or passages that were already known as songs, benedictions or songs that are known to be poetry specifically for singing in scripture.

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And over time, they wound up becoming what ended up being the total of 106.

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So it was 106 of those or 106 altogether?

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_02]: 106 altogether.

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_01]: So you had various ways.

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And it does sound like the Lord prepared you.

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, it's so – I don't know.

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I just see in your story, you know, you're a talented musician.

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_01]: You have a heart for the family and for kids.

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And so that was successful, all the project with Slugs and Bugs.

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And then the Lord expanded that now, and the whole body of Christ will benefit from this hymnal.

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I can just see that.

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe it won't take as long as I think it might take to spread around the Christian world.

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_01]: It could be very quick.

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_01]: But tell us how you got the – how did you do the tunes?

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Is there a – I mean, to put scripture to music, is there a formula?

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Or how did you figure out how to – what kind of tunes to do?

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I will say I've done it for a lot of years, so I do have a bit of a rhythm and a pattern to it.

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_02]: But for sure, I mean, first and foremost, I really felt buoyed by the Holy Spirit.

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I've never been so prolific.

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it felt like a really ambitious idea to write a song or a song or two a week.

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And so it was – it felt like a particularly charged time.

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_02]: But what I do typically is I find a passage and I just read it really slow.

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And I look for the natural rhythms and breaks that happen in the way that we naturally speak it.

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I'm also looking for in that passage what are the phrases and the moments that seem to be the ones we would want to lift up and repeat over and over.

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And so that maybe becomes a chorus that we would – I'd find a melody to – where we can repeat that.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's really – I'm looking for clues inside the text for the rhythm and melody of just the spoken word that can help lead me to where musically –

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_02]: to give me hints for what to find musically – you really do feel like it's more of a discovery process than it is a –

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_02]: like me deciding what to do.

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_02]: It sort of kind of leaps out from the piano while I'm doing it.

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So I feel like I'm writing with the Lord, you know, in any given moment.

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_02]: But – and there's plenty of scriptures that are still on the cutting room floor where I couldn't quite figure them out.

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_02]: But they'll be maybe ready for the next one.

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I can see another one in the future.

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that just sounds like the work of the Holy Spirit.

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I just love hearing this.

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_01]: This is a blessing me.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I hope the listeners are blessed too.

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I did open the phones, and if you want to call and ask a question, if anyone wants to or just talk about the blessing of singing scripture,

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_01]: 800-351-1212, but you're going to have to call really fast because we don't have a whole lot more time with Randall.

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_01]: But let me just ask you – I mean, you have this wonderful project, and I know that you've put a lot of time and energy in it.

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_01]: But what about your own musical and singing career?

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Just tell us a little bit about how that is, where that stands right now, what you're doing.

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, so I started the Slugs and Bugs family music back in 2010, and that's really been my focus.

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I had the opportunity to write with my buddy Andrew Peterson.

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Some of your friends might know.

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_02]: He's a great songwriter and author.

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_02]: We had the opportunity to write together for VeggieTales in the sort of mid-2000s.

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_02]: So we wrote Silly Songs for Bob and Larry.

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And that – even though we were just writing Silly Songs, that really inspired me and really lit a fire in me for thinking about using my gifts for families.

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And as a parent, I was always wrestling with how to be an authentic believer in front of my family when I mess up all the time.

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_02]: That context still gets me excited about writing for children and their families, even still today.

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_01]: So are your children grown up now?

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_02]: They are.

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_02]: They're – one is still left in the home.

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_02]: He's 17, a junior in high school, but the other two are on their own, doing great.

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_02]: One is 21, and the other is 24 and married, believe it or not.

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Some little Slugs and Bugs fans probably will emerge at one point.

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_02]: My wife certainly hopes so.

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know.

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I have nine grandchildren, and some of them already are fans of Slugs and Bugs.

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, your ministry is just – it's felt all over the Christian world.

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And so we're grateful now that we adults actually are going to be able to benefit with this book.

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Just, you know, since I know that you've been led by the Holy Spirit as you've created this,

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_01]: but tell us what your sort of overall dream for this project is.

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the dream is that the same thing that's happened that I've seen at so many Slugs and Bugs concerts,

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_02]: where people come and tell me stories about how singing scripture has transformed their lives and their families.

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_02]: That's the dream is that I start hearing those stories from people in church, worship leaders and pastors.

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And in the end, you know, there's a revival in biblical literacy in the church.

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a big dream.

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_02]: But even if it happens for just, you know, you and me and the people that get to him and listen and sing along,

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I do feel like my job is to make it and to do our due diligence of, you know, being a good steward of our gifts

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_02]: and marketing and producing and promoting.

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_02]: But it's up to the Lord for his – to move it through his church.

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_02]: But if he does, that's my hope, is that we're transformed through – in the way that only scripture can.

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I – carrying scripture with me, it impacts me every day.

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I long for everybody to have that access to scripture on their mind.

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for doing your part.

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And may the Lord bless your efforts and bless this project.

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Randall, thank you so much for joining me today.

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_02]: It's been my pleasure.

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll be right back.

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_03]: In 19th century London, two towering historical figures did battle.

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Not with guns and bombs, but words and ideas.

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_03]: London was home to Karl Marx, the father of communism, and legendary Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon.

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_03]: London was in many ways the center of the world economically, militarily, and intellectually.

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Marx sought to destroy religion, the family, and everything the Bible supports.

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Spurgeon stood against him, warning of socialism's dangers.

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Spurgeon understood Christianity is not just religious truth.

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_03]: It is truth for all of life.

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Where do you find men with that kind of wisdom to stand against darkness today?

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Get the light you need on today's most pressing issues delivered to your inbox when you sign up for the Viewpoints commentary at pointofview.net slash signup.

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Every weekday in less than two minutes, you'll learn how to be a person of light to stand against darkness in our time.

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_03]: It's free, so visit pointofview.net slash signup right now.

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Pointofview.net slash signup.

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Point of View will continue after this.