Monday, October 7, 2024
In the second hour, Kerby hears from speaker, writer, and researcher, Bodie Hodge. They’ll talk about Bodie’s new book, Dinosaurs, Dragons, and the Bible.
Connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com/pointofviewradio and on Twitter @PointofViewRTS with your opinions or comments.
Looking for just the Highlights? Follow us on Spotify at Point of View Highlights and get weekly highlights from some of the best interviews!
[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Across America, live, this is Point of View, Anderson.
[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_01]: This hour we're going to talk about dinosaurs and we're going to try to answer some of the questions that maybe you've had or maybe questions that your children or grandchildren have asked of you and I think this is going to be a great forum for that.
[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_01]: If you've ever been involved in youth ministry, these are topics, dinosaurs and the related topics to them which are very significant and whenever I would speak sometimes for very few years,
[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_01]: various camps, whether it was Pine Cove or Sky Ranch or Mount Hermon, whatever it might be, if I were to offer, and many times would, an alternative suggestion or optional session in which we would talk about dinosaurs and bring out for the kids all the models of dinosaurs,
[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_01]: it was always well attended, a lot of enthusiasm, but also a lot of questions.
[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that this particular book that came out last year through Answers in Genesis is an attempt to begin to answer those questions that maybe you have.
[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Dinosaurs, Dragons, and the Bible, and it is written by Bodie Hodge who is a speaker, writer, and researcher for Answers in Genesis, has his master degree from Southern Illinois University.
[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_01]: He has been involved in many books and DVDs through Answers in Genesis and is a regular speaker at their Creation Museum Speaker Series.
[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So, Bodie, welcome back to Point of View.
[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, it's great to be back on the show.
[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's, if we can, talk about why you wrote the book.
[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_01]: That first chapter is why that's important.
[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll have to say that it's so important, first of all, for the kids, because if they're in grade school, they almost always are just fascinated by the dinosaurs.
[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And as I've said, there are all sorts of opportunities to have maybe an alternative session or an optional session, bring out some of these dinosaur models, and they're really excited.
[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I've been through various creation museums as well as evolutionary museums.
[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And the place where the kids stop most often and spend the most time is with the dinosaur fossils and reconstruction.
[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So, in some respects, this book was necessary if for no other reason than it's a really hot topic even to this day.
[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, it absolutely is.
[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, that's why we put the book together.
[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, a lot of people have questions.
[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_00]: The kids love it.
[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_00]: But you know what?
[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Here's what I found.
[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_00]: The adults standing there with them, they love it just as much.
[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So, they love dealing with the subject of dinosaurs.
[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're right.
[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_00]: People have a lot of questions about dinosaurs, and they're very sincere questions.
[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, sometimes the kids ask some of the most brilliant questions you can imagine, and then once the kids start asking the parents there, they chime in and go, hey, I got a question.
[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I got a question.
[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So, that's what this book is.
[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_00]: This book answers a lot of those top questions people have about dinosaurs and the Bible and how that all relates.
[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So, it really is a neat subject.
[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Again, Masters books, 25 chapters and a lot of subsections in there.
[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And let's explain why this would be important because oftentimes I am addressing this issue.
[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Matter of fact, each year in the fall, I teach creationism at a Bible school, and I oftentimes get the question.
[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Matter of fact, by the second session, I start answering the questions about dinosaurs because if you are maybe a theistic evolutionist, well, okay, I know where I put the dinosaurs.
[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_01]: If you're even a progressive old earth creationist, you can say, well, maybe they were created in the past.
[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But if you're a young earth creationist, and that is certainly the view of answers in Genesis, you've got a lot more questions.
[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Did God create the dinosaurs?
[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Were the dinosaurs on the ark?
[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_01]: What happened to the dinosaurs?
[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Is there any relationship between dinosaurs and dragons or dinosaurs in the Bible?
[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_01]: There are some really important questions, and that's especially why you wrote this because in some respects those are questions that surface, especially if you believe in young earth creationism.
[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly right.
[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we've been influenced by the secular world, and we need to step back and recognize the entire Western world has.
[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, people all around the world, even not in the Western world, are being influenced by secular views.
[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And with that comes a lot of baggage, this evolutionary concept separating out man and certain animals by long ages.
[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, so when we go back and we say, hey, we believe the Bible, and the Bible says God created everything in six days.
[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, now all of a sudden you've got to defend that view because a lot of people have never heard of it or they don't know how to think about it.
[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, for example, when we look at dinosaurs, man was created on the sixth day of creation, so were land animals.
[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And look at that.
[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Dinosaurs, by their actual definition, are land animals.
[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_00]: They have one or two hip structures, by the way.
[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And for those of you who are wondering how a dinosaur is defined, that's what it is.
[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_00]: It's based on their hips.
[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_00]: They're a reptilian land creature where their legs are under their bodies so they stand up.
[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not like a crocodile or a Komodo dragon, but they're a land animal.
[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the point.
[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So man and dinosaurs were indeed living at the same time.
[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Like you said, a whole question start popping up right then.
[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_00]: But that shows they have an interest in the subject.
[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_00]: They want to understand it from a biblical viewpoint.
[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why it's so important to get these answers into their hands.
[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_01]: By the way, you do give us a little bit more information about the two different kind of pelvis in dinosaurs.
[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And when I was in graduate school taking vertebrate paleontology, we had to learn all that.
[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_01]: But let's move away from the secular view and really establish, just before we take a break, the basics of a biblical worldview.
[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And that is best summarized by what you call the seven C's of history.
[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Because once you understand that, at least you understand the framework you're using to begin to talk about dinosaurs.
[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Anybody that has been following the ministry of Answers in Genesis or been to the Creation Museum or the Ark Encounter probably knows that.
[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_01]: But let's see if we can go through, if you will, the seven C's of history.
[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Because that's really key to what you're going to be using as your grid and your framework to look at dinosaurs.
[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Right, yeah.
[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I see people hear that term seven C's like, well, what is that?
[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Don't let us carry it.
[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_00]: They're just milestones throughout the Bible.
[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And they all start with the letter C.
[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's kind of like when you go to church and you hear a pastor and everything starts with the same letter.
[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_00]: We do the same thing.
[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_00]: So you have creation.
[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the very first C.
[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Then you have the corruption.
[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_00]: When the world went from a perfect state to an imperfect and broken state.
[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Then you have the catastrophe, the flood of Noah's day, which explains most of the rock layers that contain fossils.
[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, we've had fossilators since that time, but most are from the flood.
[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Then we have the fourth C, that confusion at the Tower of Babel or Babel.
[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that just goes to show the effects are still in.
[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And then we have Christ, his work on the cross.
[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And then we look forward to the final consummation.
[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So what that is, that is the Bible in a nutshell just with these different C's.
[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And what we like to do is step back and say, okay, let's use these different milestones throughout history to look at dinosaurs.
[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So when we look at dinosaurs, what day were they created?
[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_00]: How were they created?
[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_00]: They were actually created perfectly.
[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what we expected from a perfect God was a perfect creation.
[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_00]: There was no death, no bloodshed, no suffering.
[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Deuteronomy 32.4 says every work of God is perfect.
[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we expected the work of creation to be perfect.
[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And at the end of the creation week, God declared everything very good.
[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_00]: It really was perfect.
[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_00]: But all that changed.
[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And that brings us to the second C of history, the corruption when Adam and Eve, our mutual ancestors, when they rebelled against God, elevated their own thoughts to supersede what God had said about a particular fruit.
[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_00]: They ate from that fruit.
[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_00]: God cursed the ground.
[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_00]: He cursed the animals, and he sentenced man to die.
[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_00]: The world went from a perfect state to an imperfect and broken state.
[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the world we live in now.
[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_00]: But there's dinosaurs in that.
[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the animals were cursed.
[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_00]: That includes the dinosaurs.
[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah.
[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's take a break.
[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And when we come back, we will get into some of those questions.
[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_01]: When did God make the dinosaurs, the pterosaurs, the plesiosaurs?
[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_01]: What did dinosaurs eat?
[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_01]: A question I always get.
[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Were dinosaurs on the ark?
[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Or did they go extinct before the flood?
[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And is there any evidence of dinosaurs after the flood?
[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And how could you have even fit all the dinosaurs on the ark?
[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And are dinosaurs and dragons the same thing?
[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And all those kinds of really important questions that we receive.
[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_01]: That is all part of the conversation we're going to have today as we talk about the book, Dinosaurs, Dragons, and the Bible.
[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll continue our conversation with Bodhi Hodge right after this.
[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_04]: This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.
[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Imagine being in the army and watching a presentation about extremism.
[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_01]: It pops a slide with the title, Terrorist Groups.
[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And under it are labels that identify the national right to life and anyone with a Choose Life license plate as an extremist.
[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Mind you, this slide just followed the slide of a terrorist group, ISIS.
[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_01]: This is not the first time we've seen such army training slides.
[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_01]: During the Obama administration, we discussed on my radio program other slides that identified evangelical Christianity, Catholicism, and Mormonism as different forms of religious extremism.
[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Daniel Runyon is the senior counsel and chair of the military practice group at First Liberty Institute.
[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Her editorial documents what I just discussed and then goes on to explain that this incident at Fort Liberty was not a one-time error.
[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_01]: When members of Congress denounced such activity in their letter, the army response was the slides were not vetted and implied this was an exception.
[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Daniel explains that the repetitive nature of these events in the army over the past decade, as well as the woke ideology that has plagued our nation and has destroyed the careers of thousands of religious service members over the past four years, make it hard to believe this wasn't intentional.
[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_01]: She mentions a briefing given to the army personnel at Camp Shelby that identified the American Family Association as a hate group.
[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_01]: At another briefing, the Defense Equal Opportunity Institute explained that it considered extreme leftist organizations to be a reliable source for training.
[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, if the army wonders why they're having trouble recruiting Christians to serve in the military, they might want to look at what they're teaching in these training sessions.
[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.
[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_02]: For a free copy of Kirby's booklet, A Biblical View on Antisemitism, go to viewpoints.info slash antisemitism.
[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Viewpoints.info slash antisemitism.
[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_03]: You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.
[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Look, today we're talking about dinosaurs, dragons, and the Bible.
[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to get into some of the evidence that would suggest that maybe dinosaurs didn't live so long ago after all, but we'll get to that later.
[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Because right now we want to just try to kind of set forth the case and then begin to defend it.
[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And one of the things that we would obviously have to start with, Bodhi Hodge, is to really talk about, well, when did God make dinosaurs and plesiosaurs and pterosaurs?
[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_01]: That's chapter 6.
[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty straightforward.
[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_01]: You've already said that, but again, part of that has to do with taking the Bible seriously.
[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_00]: When we look back at Creation Week, God created things on different days.
[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_00]: The land animals, which would be the land dinosaurs, that is, they would have been made on the sixth day.
[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I already mentioned that.
[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_00]: But when you think of the pterosaurs and the plesiosaurs, hold it.
[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Now all of a sudden you've got some flying reptiles, you've got some sea reptiles.
[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, by technical definition, they're actually not considered dinosaurs.
[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I know in a layman sense we sometimes want to lump them in with the dinosaurs, but technically they're not by definition.
[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_00]: But what day would they have been created?
[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, if we look carefully on the days of creation, it would have been the fifth day.
[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_00]: The fifth day when the flying creatures as well as the sea creatures both came into existence.
[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_00]: God created them on those particular days.
[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So you have dinosaurs on day six, but you have those pterosaurs and those plesiosaurs, as well as other flying or water reptiles would have been made on day five.
[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I want people to do.
[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I want them to think.
[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Go back.
[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, let's take the Bible seriously.
[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Now let's look at these subjects.
[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, one of your chapters is what did dinosaurs originally eat?
[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, if you've ever watched Jurassic Park or Jurassic World or a variety of other dinosaur movies, of course, most of the time they tend to focus on a lot of the carnivorous dinosaurs.
[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_01]: But what about that?
[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Because if you're indeed believing that God made the world and it was good, it was good, it was very good.
[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_01]: It makes you wonder about whether or not you had those dinosaurs, if indeed they were created on the fifth and sixth days, whether they were eating meat.
[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_01]: What's your thoughts?
[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, originally they would have been vegetarian.
[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And the reason we know that is also at the end of the creation week, God said that these animals were eating a plant-based diet.
[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_00]: They were eating green herbs.
[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what we expect from a God of life.
[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_00]: He made a world full of life, not a world full of death.
[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_00]: We need to understand where death came from.
[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Death is actually a punishment.
[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_00]: It is a punishment for sin.
[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So when Adam and Eve sinned against God, that's when death first came into the world.
[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, we see a relationship there between man and the animals.
[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_00]: When Adam and Eve sinned against God, God sacrificed animals right there in the Garden of Eden to make coats of skins for Adam and his wife.
[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, we still mimic that today by wearing clothing.
[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_00]: But that was the first recorded death of anything as a direct result of human sin.
[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So there is a relationship between man's sin and animal death.
[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So no dinosaurs could have died until after that.
[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Therefore, none of the dinosaurs were eating meat before that because that requires death.
[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So when we look at that biblically, we go, oh, hold on a second here then.
[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_00]: These animals were not eating meat originally.
[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_00]: They were originally vegetarian.
[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't until after sin that they could first start eating meat.
[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, some of them did start to eat meat.
[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_00]: We do know that.
[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And the reason we know that, that third sea of history is the catastrophe, the flood of Noah's day.
[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And we see all these different dinosaurs that are buried in these rock layers.
[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_00]: They're actually from the flood of Noah's day.
[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_00]: They're not millions and billions of years old.
[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_00]: These are from the flood of Noah's day.
[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Noah and the animals are floating around in the ark up above them while these rock layers are being laid down.
[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, as we've been sifting through those different rock layers, we find rock layers like Cretaceous, Jurassic, and Triassic, and they have dinosaurs in them.
[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And in some cases, we find where some of these dinosaurs had eaten other dinosaurs.
[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_00]: We actually find their stomach contents fossilized in there.
[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So, at some point, they did start to eat meat.
[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_00]: It was after Adam and Eve sinned against God.
[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_00]: But we see that in that snapshot of the flood of Noah's day.
[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, as soon as you bring that up, then some people say, okay, wait a minute.
[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_01]: We do see these dinosaurs or related reptiles that have teeth, sharp teeth, claws.
[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And what about that?
[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Because, after all, that usually is what you would expect from a meat eater.
[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_01]: So, how do you respond to that?
[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, these are called defense or attack structures.
[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, those things are very handy in the same cursed and broken world.
[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_00]: But, see, we have the mindset of thinking, oh, wow, claws are bad, teeth are bad, but not necessarily.
[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I grew up in the western part of Illinois, and one of the things that we have a lot of are squirrels.
[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Squirrels are beautiful little creatures, but they have some pretty vicious claws, and they also have some pretty sharp teeth.
[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_00]: People don't realize that I actually got bit by a squirrel once.
[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_00]: But what do they use their claws for?
[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, for climbing trees and holding nuts.
[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_00]: What do they use their teeth for?
[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_00]: For ripping through nuts and getting through that sort of thing.
[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_00]: So they're not using them for any harsh purpose.
[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_00]: In our minds, we've been taught, oh, sharp teeth, claws, those things are evidence of meat eating.
[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_00]: But that's not necessarily the case.
[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_00]: So when we look at these defense and attack structures, there's actually two different biblical viewpoints that pop out.
[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_00]: One is that those particular features were simply utilized for a different purpose, whether it's climbing trees or holding nuts and so forth.
[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, imagine some of these big dinosaurs ripping right through some hard coconuts and so forth.
[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_00]: They need some sharp teeth or hard teeth to be able to deal with that.
[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_00]: The other viewpoint is there may have been some design changes at the fall of man.
[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_00]: When Adam and Eve sinned, God cursed the ground.
[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_00]: He cursed the animals, and there were physical changes.
[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_00]: That serpent that was involved, being influenced by Satan to deceive the woman, that serpent was cursed to crawl on its belly and eat dust all the days of the fly.
[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Most commentators think that serpent physically changed forms to be in a lower position.
[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So there was a physical change going on there.
[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_00]: If you look at the parallel to the plants, you know, when God cursed the ground, certain plants gave rise to thorns and thistles.
[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So that was a physical change.
[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Was this when sharp teeth, claws came about to help them survive and a sin cursed?
[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's possible.
[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_00]: So we leave either of those options open.
[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But either way, when we start with the Bible, it makes sense of things like claws and teeth and even turtle shells and things like to help protect themselves from being eaten.
[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and let's, if we can, get to the question a lot of people have, and it's one you've heard before.
[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you opened the Ark Encounter back in 2016, so this is not the first time you've heard that question.
[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_01]: It will not be the last.
[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And that is, were dinosaurs on Noah's Ark or, and I think there's not an either or because it could be both and, did any of them maybe even go extinct before the flood?
[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Your thoughts?
[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't know if any of them actually went extinct.
[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the Bible says that two of every kind did come on board the Ark.
[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Though it is possible, but I would probably say most likely their kinds had not gone extinct by that particular time.
[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, as for being on board the Ark, yeah, they came on board the Ark.
[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_00]: That is a representative.
[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Two of each kind was on board Noah's Ark.
[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_00]: So these animals, they came on the Ark in their pairs.
[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_00]: They came off of the Ark, and they've been dying out ever since then.
[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, these dinosaurs were definitely on the Ark.
[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's funny, when I'm speaking, I, you know, I get two types of people in my audiences.
[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_00]: When I say, hey, do you guys think dinosaurs are in the Ark?
[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I have some people that just sit there like, what, huh?
[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I have a whole bunch of people that shout out, yes!
[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, have you guys walked through the Ark or the museum already?
[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_05]: And they're like, yes!
[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, okay, that's like studying for the test.
[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So they do kind of know, you know, because when you walk through the Ark, you get to see some of these dinosaurs.
[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, of course, I have people say, you know, it's a related question.
[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_00]: How'd you fit those big dinosaurs on that little bathtub ark?
[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, those who've been to the Ark encounter, they realize Noah's Ark was not a little bathtub ark.
[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_00]: It was a gigantic vessel.
[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_00]: The second thing is, why would Noah take the great big huge dinosaurs on board the Ark?
[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_00]: It makes more sense that God brought the smaller ones, the juveniles.
[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_00]: They can live on their own, less food, less space, less waste, better breeding stock when they come off the Ark.
[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So most likely they took the smaller ones.
[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And these animals would have easily fit on board Noah's Ark.
[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_00]: That wasn't really a problem at all.
[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And again, you talk about that in one of your chapters.
[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_01]: But when we come back from the break, just for a minute, it is a good way to also feature the Ark encounter,
[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_01]: because it's a very important question that you address in your book.
[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_01]: How many kinds of animals, including dinosaurs, were on the Ark?
[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And the key word there is kinds and how that means.
[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And then, of course, did you have enough for at least the air-breathing land animals?
[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Did you have enough room for their food?
[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And in some cases, you're talking about hay pellets.
[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_01]: You're talking about fruit and vegetables.
[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_01]: They don't have to necessarily deal with as many of the wing creatures or sea creatures or any of them, actually.
[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's, I think, something we might want to talk about,
[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_01]: just simply because if you've never been to the Ark encounter, you don't realize how big it is.
[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And then when we come back afterwards, we'll not only talk about that,
[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_01]: but, okay, what happened to the dinosaurs after?
[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, during the flood and then after the flood.
[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And then we get into the other part of your chapter and title,
[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Are Dinosaurs and Dragons the Same Thing?
[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll talk about some of the ways in which the words have been changed in the Bible.
[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And then, okay, if indeed you believe that there were dinosaurs, did the dinosaurs ever get mentioned in the Bible?
[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And you might want to turn ahead to the book of Job.
[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll get into that.
[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And so just a lot more to cover with Bodie Hodge.
[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_01]: The book is entitled Dinosaurs, Dragons, and the Bible.
[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, you can get that through Answers in Genesis.
[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_01]: We have information about that organization on our website.
[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_01]: We have information about the book.
[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_01]: It came out last year.
[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_01]: You might even be able to find it in your local bookstore.
[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_01]: So there are some resources.
[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you have some young ones, it could be children or grandchildren asking questions,
[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_01]: this is one that either they could read or if they're too young, you could read to them.
[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And I guarantee you they'd be interested.
[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's take a break.
[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll continue our conversation right after this.
[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_04]: The Bible tells us not to worry.
[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_04]: And yet there is a lot of worrying stuff in our world today.
[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Thankfully, the Bible doesn't stop at telling us not to worry.
[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_04]: God gives us a next step.
[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_04]: He says we need to pray.
[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_04]: But sometimes even knowing what to pray can be difficult.
[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_04]: And that is why Point of View has relaunched our Pray for America movement,
[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_04]: a series of weekly emails to guide you in prayer for our nation.
[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Each week, you'll receive a brief update about a current issue affecting Americans,
[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_04]: along with a written prayer that you can easily share with others.
[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_04]: We'll also include a short free resource for you in each email so you can learn more about the issue at hand.
[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Will you commit to pray for America?
[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Go to pointofview.net.
[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Click on the Pray for America banner at the top of the page to subscribe.
[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Again, that's pointofview.net.
[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Click on the Pray for America banner.
[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Let's pray together for God to make a difference in America.
[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Point of View will continue after this.
[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_04]: You are listening to Point of View.
[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_04]: The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station.
[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_04]: And now, here again, is Kirby Anderson.
[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Back once again, Bodhi Hodge with us as we talk about his book, Dinosaurs, Dragons, and the Bible.
[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_01]: You can go to answersingenesis.org and find out a lot more.
[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Many of you have probably been to the Creation Museum, The Ark Encounter.
[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you would like to know more about this particular book, we have information about it on the website.
[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Very inexpensive, given the fact that it has 25 chapters and is about 250 pages.
[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_01]: So great material.
[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_01]: But, Bodhi, just for a minute before we get back to dinosaurs, how many kinds of animals, including dinosaurs, were on the Ark?
[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_01]: You've had a chance to kind of think that through, run the numbers, and deal not only with the animals but the food and everything else over a one-year voyage of the Ark.
[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Can you explain kind of how you've worked out some of the numbers?
[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I just want people to understand, you know, it wasn't all me.
[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm standing on the shoulders of giants on that.
[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, there have been people who have written technical articles and entire technical books on the subject.
[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I got a chance to work with the Ark researchers as well.
[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, it was nice for me to kind of bring all that together because the numbers out there, you know, there have been times people said, oh, well, maybe there's about 1,000 different kinds.
[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_00]: The Ark Encounter, when they did their study, they came with about 1,400 kinds.
[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_00]: But that's not necessarily the same thing as the actual individuals.
[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like with the Ark Encounter, they tried to overestimate, try to maximize, just so that we're not being looked at by the world of, well, you're just trying to minimize them to,
[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I said, them on the Ark.
[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So they were trying to kind of maximize.
[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So with the 1,400 kinds, they have a maximum of just under 7,000 animals.
[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Although without those maximum figures, it would probably be closer to about 3,200 individuals.
[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So that just kind of gives you an idea, you know, of that.
[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_00]: But let's talk a little bit about kinds versus species because a lot of people don't know what we mean when I say the one kind.
[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, automatically people think species.
[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a massive number of species out there.
[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_00]: But a species and a kind are not necessarily the same thing.
[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Species comes out of our modern classification system, the Lennonian classification system.
[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And just to give people an idea, when it comes to cats like lions and tigers and cheetahs and bobcats and house cats and so forth, they are all classed as different species.
[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Yet there's only one cat kind.
[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_00]: All these cats can ultimately interbreed with each other.
[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, some of the big cats can breed with the bobcats, the bobcats can breed with the house cats and so forth.
[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So there's one kind.
[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, notice what I had in there.
[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_00]: If they can interbreed with each other, that's a good rule of thumb that they're part of the same kind.
[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So Noah only required two cats on board the ark.
[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_00]: He didn't require all these lions and cheetahs and tigers and so forth.
[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_00]: He just needed two cats.
[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_00]: The same sort of thing with the dinosaur kinds.
[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_00]: You only needed two of each kind, not all the species.
[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So when it comes to things like the ceratopian dinosaurs, yeah, you've got triceratops and taurosaurus and protoceratops.
[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_00]: These are all just variations within that same ceratopian kind.
[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Noah only required two of the ceratopians on board the ark.
[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And so what that does, that brings us, you know, when it comes to the dinosaur numbers,
[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_00]: if you just look at those, the ark had a maximum of about 85 kinds.
[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And the minimum number actually in that is about 36 kinds.
[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So it translates to anywhere from about 72 to 170 individuals.
[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_00]: But dinosaurs are a little different.
[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And the reason I throw that range out there is because when it comes to cats or dogs, we can see what interbreeds with each other.
[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_00]: When it comes to dinosaurs, they're not around anymore.
[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So we can't really see.
[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So we kind of have to do some estimates.
[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_00]: We look at their bones and their structures and say, hey, are these part of the same kind or are they not, based on what's called a cognitum level.
[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's where we get that range.
[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, again, lots of great science.
[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And I thought for just a few minutes then let's talk about Bible because a lot of people say, OK, I don't see the word dinosaur in the Bible.
[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, you don't see the word mammal in the Bible either.
[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_01]: But there is a sense in which this issue of dinosaurs and dragons come together.
[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And I thought it would be good that since we've been doing a lot of science, be good for just a few minutes to maybe talk about Bible because the way in which some of these translations dealt with these animals in the past didn't call them dinosaurs.
[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_01]: But you have to begin to wonder if that's what they were alluding to.
[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Can you kind of give us some history there?
[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if you look throughout the Old Testament of the Bible, particularly about the older translations, even in different languages, going all the way back to the Septuagint, which is about 200 and 250 years before Christ, the Latin Vulgate about AD 400.
[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And you move forward a lot of these early English translations, German translations.
[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_00]: There was a word used there for several different Hebrew words, variant words, that is translated as dragon.
[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, immediately you go, hold on, dragon?
[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Dragon's in the Bible?
[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_00]: What?
[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_00]: You've got to be kidding me.
[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, it is in there.
[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_00]: It's in there quite a few places.
[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not one isolated book.
[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_00]: It is all over the place.
[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And these old translations had no problem translating it as dragon.
[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And I want people to understand there's a connection between dinosaurs and dragons.
[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And I would say even the world recognizes this because when you look at some of the dinosaur names, there's a number of dinosaur names that actually use the word dragon.
[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_00]: One of my favorite dinosaurs is called Dracorex hogwarzia.
[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I'm glad you used that.
[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_01]: All the hogwarz kids all of a sudden perked up because that actually is its name.
[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead.
[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Draco, Draco is the Latin word for dragon.
[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And so they actually.
[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And the second part, hogwarzia, which is where the idea of hogwarz comes from.
[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, it's just, I've got the picture here in case you want to read it in the book.
[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_01]: For all of you Harry Potter fans now, we're going to get into some pretty interesting things.
[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And again, that goes back to even the kinds of names that have sometimes been given to some of these dinosaurs, which also use the word dragon.
[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead.
[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Like dragon, a key young, Draco pelta.
[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you can see the name dragon that's utilized in these different ones.
[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is just a handful of them.
[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_00]: There's quite a few.
[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So even the secular world recognizes, hey, there is like a connection between dinosaurs and dragons.
[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_00]: But we've all been taught dragons are myth.
[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And what it is, the whole reason people thought dragons are mythos, well, they can't find them.
[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And about the same time they couldn't find them, they're digging up these dinosaur bones and they give them a new name.
[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Dinosaur, which means terrifying or terrible lizard.
[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And so for some reason, people just totally disconnected the two.
[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_00]: But really, dinosaurs and dragons, there is a connection.
[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, there is a difference.
[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_00]: There is a distinction.
[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Remember earlier, I made a comment about dinosaurs and the way they're defined.
[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_00]: They're defined by their hip structure.
[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So they have a particular hip structure that's under their body that raises their body up off the ground.
[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_00]: So dinosaurs are land reptiles that have a specific hip structure.
[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, when you look at dragon, dragon is more of an overarching term.
[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_00]: It includes those dinosaurs, but it also includes creatures like crocodiles.
[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_00]: It includes sea creatures like the plesiosaurs.
[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Or it also includes the flying reptiles like your pteranodons or pterodactyls.
[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So dragon is more of an overarching term.
[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So the way I like to put it is all dinosaurs can rightly be called a dragon, but not all the dragons can be called and defined as a dinosaur.
[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's kind of an easy way to look at that.
[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, dragons in the Bible.
[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_00]: It's right there over and over again.
[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's explain this.
[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to turn this into a Hebrew class for just a minute.
[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_01]: But the Hebrew words that used to be translated as dragon are still there from Genesis all the way through Jeremiah.
[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think people see that because we, of course, just read the English.
[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_01]: But if you go back to the Hebrew words, it's referring to sea and land creatures of some sort.
[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And at one time that was actually defined as dragon.
[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_01]: But then I think some well-meaning Christians, when they couldn't find evidence of dragons, said, well, then dragons are a myth.
[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Which they were making that statement at the very time that you had some of these great vertebrate paleontologists actually starting to dig up what today we call dinosaurs.
[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Some of these Hebrew words, tanin, tanin, tanah, that's kind of a variation of that word tan.
[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Throughout these old translations, nobody had a problem translating these as dragons.
[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_00]: But fast forward to the 1800s, that's when this all shifted.
[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_00]: We don't find dragons anymore.
[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, Christians are like, well, why are we translating this as dragon if they're not there?
[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And for some reason, a lot of these Christians were thinking that animals couldn't really go extinct.
[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_00]: That was just that that just wasn't a concept.
[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_00]: They just kept thinking, well, they must be living somewhere else.
[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_00]: But when it came down to dragons, they're just like, well, maybe they're just a myth because we can't find them.
[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And so now all of a sudden they're like, well, how do we translate this word now?
[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_00]: You see, you get stuck in a conundrum.
[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And so some people started using different animals.
[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Some of them were even using plants.
[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes they just skipped over it in the translation.
[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_00]: It was very odd.
[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And finally, a lot of them decided to start settling on wolf or jackal.
[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_00]: There's another Hebrew word for jackal, but they didn't use that one.
[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_00]: They kind of threw that one out and started using this word for dragon for jackal.
[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's kind of the culture that we've been left with right now.
[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_00]: But what we need to do is step back and go, hold on a second here.
[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_00]: These creatures really were dragons.
[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And most likely they just gone extinct by the 1800s.
[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So what we need to do is be a little more accurate, I think, with that particular word on our translations.
[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's take a break and we come back.
[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, then we can see a lot of places where it used to be, especially in the Psalms, a number of times it talks about breaking the head of dragons and the young lion and the dragon and all the rest.
[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_01]: But are there any places that seem to specifically mention dinosaurs?
[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And those of you that have your Bible, you might turn to a Job chapter 40.
[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll also look at Job chapter 41.
[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll get into that in just a minute.
[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's all part of this book, Dinosaurs, Dragons and the Bible.
[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Bodhi Hodge is the author.
[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_01]: The book has been out for some time.
[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a relatively inexpensive book, given the fact there's 25 chapters and about 250 pages of material.
[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_01]: We are doing our best to give you a brief overview.
[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_01]: But if you really want to learn more, of course, you need to get a copy of the book.
[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And we have information about that on our website.
[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll be right back.
[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_03]: You're listening to Point of View, your listener supported source for truth.
[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Back once again, talking with Bodhi Hodge about his book, Dinosaurs, Dragons and the Bible.
[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And that brings us to, of course, are dinosaurs mentioned in the Bible?
[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And oftentimes I get that question.
[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And I say, OK, turn to Job 40.
[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_01]: It talks about this particular behemoth.
[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_01]: He actually eats grass like an ox and its strength is in his loins.
[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And they say, oh, it's an elephant.
[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_01]: The next verse says he swings his tail like a cedar.
[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I say, think of an elephant's tail.
[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And I usually get a laugh when I do that because if anybody's seen an elephant's tail or the tail of a hippo, you have those pictures in your book.
[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't exactly swing its tail like a cedar.
[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So what about this particular animal mentioned in Job 40?
[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, this creature, you know, you look carefully at that description.
[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't match an elephant.
[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't match a hippo.
[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think sometimes people are just looking at some large, massive creatures today because, you know, the Bible talks about this being, you know, the first or the chief of the ways of God.
[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so, I mean, they're thinking, hey, this has got to be some sort of massive creature.
[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're not thinking of potentially extinct creatures when they make those little comments.
[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_00]: When you look carefully at some of these details in here, I mean, this thing, he goes in, he's in the water, he's in the reeds, and the lotus trees hardly give it shade.
[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's some sort of massive creature, yet it can migrate all the way to the mountains and plays there.
[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, so you'll look at the tail, you'll look at the hip structure.
[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_00]: This is some sort of unique creature.
[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_00]: It actually fits a creature a little bit more akin to something like a sauropod, especially when you look at that particular tail.
[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think, hey, this is a good possibility of being some sort of a dinosaur-like creature.
[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it makes a lot more sense of the context anyway.
[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, then in Job 41, you have this idea of Leviathan.
[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And again, there's sometimes a tendency to say, well, you know, that's probably a crocodile or an alligator or something like that.
[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And then it talks about fire and flames from its mouth and breath sets coals ablaze.
[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_01]: That sounds a lot more like a dragon than it does like an alligator or crocodile or caiman or something like that.
[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, yeah.
[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, some of the other description given there in Job 41, you know, darts and spears cannot pierce it.
[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we think of a crocodile.
[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, yeah, people shoot those, you know, or spear those all the time going back through the past.
[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's definitely a unique creature.
[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Once again, it comes down to that context.
[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're faced with this reality of, hey, there are some creatures that are no longer around for us to compare them to.
[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_00]: But we, you know, we've been digging up all these different fossils.
[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, there's a lot of candidates for this sort of thing that actually fit these descriptions much, much better.
[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I know with Leviathan, you know, a number of people have thrown out different ideas because this is a water creature.
[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I know some people have thrown out plesiosaurus, some people have thrown out cronosaurus.
[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it might even be a creature that we don't know.
[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's definitely some sort of massive creature that you did not want to mess with.
[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_00]: There's no doubt about that one.
[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's talk about the fact that in history, in art, in these petroglyphs, I know you have those at the Creation Museum.
[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Just a few miles from where I'm broadcasting is the Institute for Creation Research.
[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you go through their particular Creation Museum, they have a whole wall.
[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just picture after picture of things that look like dinosaurs that are taken from places all over the world.
[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Some of them are in China, in Asia.
[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Some of them are in Africa.
[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_01]: You have all sorts of places around the world that are showing pictures, drawing pictures, having stories about something that looks like dragons.
[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that a possibility that those were indeed dinosaurs that got off the ark, existed for a period of time, but eventually went extinct?
[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_01]: What are your thoughts?
[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know what?
[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that makes the most sense.
[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, a lot of creatures have gone extinct.
[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine how many animals would be extinct if we wouldn't have enacted the endangered species list in 1973.
[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_00]: We probably wouldn't have lions and tigers and elephants and hippos and rhinos and condors and eagles.
[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the list goes on and on.
[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we just sit here wondering, hey, are those things a myth?
[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Did they even exist?
[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's the same sort of thing.
[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_00]: When we look at these different creatures from all around the world, these are people who saw something and wrote it down or described it,
[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_00]: or they actually have a drawn-up description of it.
[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And I've seen these things in places all over.
[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_00]: When I was down in Peru in South America, we'd go to these museums and we'd see pottery and art and different things that had dinosaur-dragon-like depictions on it.
[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_00]: When I was over in the British Museum over in England, I was surprised at how many ancient things had dragons on it right there alongside other creatures that you'd readily recognize.
[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So I have no doubt these people were seeing creatures that definitely looked like some of the dinosaurs that we depict.
[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you have a section in the back on short answers to common dinosaur questions and everything from what about the Loch Ness monster to whatever.
[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_01]: But I wanted to focus on one because a lot of people say, well, I'm glad you believe in a young earth, but everything is old.
[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_01]: But we're finding dinosaur soft tissue.
[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And that is not something that you're making up.
[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_01]: It's something that's been in the news for some time.
[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And to have soft tissue from something that supposedly went extinct hundreds of millions of years ago does raise some really important questions, doesn't it?
[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it sure does.
[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And what I loved about that is it was the secularists that found that.
[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Dr. Mary Schweitzer was the first one.
[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_00]: They cracked open a T-Rex femur.
[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And they get back to the lab and they start looking where they cracked it open.
[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And they found some preserved red blood cells.
[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And since then, they've cracked open others.
[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And I know some creationists that cracked open a triceratops horn.
[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And they found some soft tissue, some of it stretchy.
[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It gave off an odor.
[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_00]: That makes so much more sense that it's a matter of thousands of years old as opposed to, say, millions and millions of years old.
[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_00]: It just makes a lot more sense.
[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's, if we can, just real quickly talk about how people can use this.
[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Because, first of all, in addition to this book are other resources at Answers in Genesis.
[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And there are some things that you've written and Ken Ham have written and some others.
[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_01]: So, let's, if we can, just before we run out of time, talk about the fact that if people go to this wonderful website, which is entitled Answers in Genesis.org,
[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_01]: there is a lot of information about archaeology, apologetics, science, history, philosophy.
[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And all of that is available to individuals that want to get the resources, maybe even subscribe to the newsletter that you have.
[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So, just before we go, talk about all the other resources that are available in addition to this book, Dinosaurs, Dragons, and the Bible.
[00:40:57] [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[00:40:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's a host of books there in the bookstore.
[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And, of course, the website has a lot of information as well.
[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But I want to encourage people to come to the Creation Museum and come to the Ark Encounter here in northern Kentucky in the Cincinnati area.
[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_00]: We're actually fairly close to the Cincinnati and northern Kentucky airport, both attractions.
[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And you'll find a host of resources in the bookstores as well.
[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But it really is a way to kind of walk through Bible history, walk through the Ark.
[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Get a chance to actually learn about these things firsthand.
[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Some of the questions you didn't even think of when you're walking through the Ark, for example.
[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And then load up on the resources.
[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_00]: There's books.
[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_00]: There's DVDs.
[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_00]: We also have Answers.TV, which has thousands of our videos and different things.
[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_00]: We've got stuff from Ray Comfort and many others as well on Answers.TV.
[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a great way to learn and just grow in your faith from these different resources.
[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Bodie, first of all, I want to thank you for writing the book.
[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for giving us an hour today.
[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And thank you for being the one that so often is trying to answer all those questions that I'm sure you get from the young people walking through the Ark Encounter
[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and wondering how in the world all of this came together.
[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So I appreciate you giving us some time today to talk about your book and to talk about what is available at Answers in Genesis.
[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_00]: You bet.
[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_00]: God bless you.
[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Keep up your great work.
[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's just before we run out of time mention that again we have the Answers in Genesis.org website.
[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_01]: There is an ultimate answers packet that is available, which you can find if you find yourself saying, well, I'd like to know more about dragons.
[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_01]: They also have an interactive book that is full of biblical and historical references to dragons called Dragons, Legends, Lore, and Dinosaurs.
[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And, of course, it's this book, Dinosaurs, Dragons, and the Bible.
[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_01]: These are individuals that we've seen on the big screen in all sorts of movies like Jurassic Park and Jurassic zoos and things of that nature.
[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_01]: It is something that is fascinating.
[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And we thought it would be a good opportunity for you to learn a little bit more about dinosaurs, dragons, and the Bible.
[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Because, indeed, there may be very good answers to those questions that maybe your children and grandchildren are asking.
[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you're asking.
[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And thank you for listening.
[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_01]: You've been listening to Point of View.
[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_04]: It almost seems like we live in a different world from many people in positions of authority.
[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_04]: They say men can be women and women men.
[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_04]: People are prosecuted differently or not at all depending on their politics.
[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Criminals are more valued and rewarded than law-abiding citizens.
[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_04]: It's so overwhelming, so demoralizing.
[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_04]: You feel like giving up.
[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_04]: But we can't.
[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_04]: We shouldn't.
[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_04]: We must not.
[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_04]: As Winston Churchill said to Britain in the darkest days of World War II,
[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Never give in.
[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Never give in.
[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Never, never, never.
[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Never yield to force.
[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's what we say to you today.
[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_04]: This is not a time to give in, but to step up and join Point of View in providing clarity in the chaos.
[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_04]: We can't do it alone, but together, with God's help, we will overcome the darkness.
[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Invest in Biblical clarity today at pointofview.net or call 1-800-347-5151.
[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Pointofview.net and 800-347-5151.
[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Point of View is produced by Point of View Ministries.