Monday, October 7, 2024
Our host today is Kerby Anderson. His guest is Dr. Kathy Koch. She joins him, again, to discuss her newest book, Parent Differently: Raise Kids with Biblical Character That Changes Culture.
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[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Across America Live, this is Point of View, Kirby Anderson.
[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And thank you for joining us. We're really going to have a great conversation today because we're going to be talking about the importance of parenting.
[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And Kathy Cook is certainly with us. We're going to be talking about this new book, Parent Differently, Raise Kids with Biblical Character that Changes Culture.
[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_02]: We really understand how important it is to not only be good and effective parents, but also how we can really see them as arrows in the quiver to make a difference in the community.
[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think you're going to always appreciate the good work of Dr. Kathy Cook.
[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And we certainly are appreciative of the work that she has done. We have all sorts of information about her on the website.
[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm looking forward to the chance to really focus on this important issue today here on Point of View.
[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_02]: If you are concerned about your children, your grandchildren or even kids in your neighborhood and you really want them to develop biblical character, this is the book for you.
[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Dr. Kathy Cook with us again. And the book is entitled Parent Differently, Raise Kids with Biblical Character that Changes Culture.
[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Eight chapters. We're going to work through what it is in terms of biblical character, why it's important, maybe strategies you can use.
[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_02]: How does biblical character relate to obedience and much, much more.
[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_02]: She's the founder of Celebrate Kids, has been able to drive over today from Fort Worth, Texas.
[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And Kathy, every time I turn on a phone or an internet website or a television or radio program, it seems like you're there.
[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I just saw this conference and there you are.
[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Almost every time they're doing something at the Colson Center, you are there.
[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: So it is just a delight that you would be in studio with us.
[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm delighted to be here and thanks for the encouragement.
[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_04]: We're so privileged, aren't we, to do what we do?
[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm grateful, glad to be here, looking forward to our conversation.
[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Let me just mention too, we do have a link to Celebrate Kids.
[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_02]: You might want to have her come and speak.
[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_02]: We were talking off air about the number of times I used to hear you at ACSI.
[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And now it just seems like sometimes I'll be sitting in a conference and our next guest is Dr. Kathy Cook.
[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, oh, here she is again.
[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Whether it's the National Religious Broadcasters, ACSI, whether it's some of these different conferences, educational conferences and the rest.
[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, you speak for Care Net and Summit Ministries, Colson Center and much more.
[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_02]: But this issue of character, something we've talked about with you before, and it is really important.
[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So, first of all, I guess we need a definition because biblical character is just a little different than the kind of character education that takes place right now in the public schools.
[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?
[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_02]: You think?
[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Kind of, right.
[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, let's start just with character first.
[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Just simply character.
[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_04]: It marks us.
[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_04]: It's something that engraves us.
[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_04]: It is the firm foundation of our decision making.
[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_04]: It's where really beliefs reside, if you will.
[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_04]: So character in and of itself matters greatly.
[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Biblical character, right?
[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Old and New Testament.
[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Not just Christ-like character.
[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, become like Jesus.
[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_04]: That's the call upon our lives if you're a Christ follower.
[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_04]: But what about the Old Testament?
[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_04]: That's where the book of Proverbs resides, which is a little bit relevant to our character.
[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_04]: And, of course, there's biblical heroes.
[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_04]: There's Daniel and Esther and Naomi and Deborah and David and Paul and so many biblical characters that we can turn to.
[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_04]: There's the definition of love in 1 Corinthians 13.
[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_04]: There's the one another's.
[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_04]: There's the fruit of the Spirit.
[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_04]: There is, of course, Jesus.
[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_04]: There is so much in Scripture we can rely on for becoming who God would want us to be so that we're positioned to be influential in this crazy culture.
[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_02]: As Gaines puts it this way, character is the inner form that makes anyone or anything what it is, whether a person, a wine, or historical period.
[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_02]: It's the essential stuff that he or she is made of, the inner reality of which thoughts, speech, decisions, behavior, and relations are rooted.
[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Such a great quote, first of all.
[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But oftentimes people say character is who you are when nobody's looking.
[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think about that?
[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_04]: There's some truth to that.
[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_04]: And I do talk in the book about raising up children who will be well and do well even when no one is looking and the burden is heavy.
[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_04]: So imagine, Kirby, they don't do well to earn a reward or to avoid punishment.
[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_04]: They do well because it's right to be well and do well.
[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_04]: And the more you do it, the more it feels normal to you.
[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_04]: I want kids to be well and do well when no one's looking and when the burden is heavy, meaning that they might stop somebody from being bullied even if they're the next one to be bullied, meaning that they don't lie and gossip even if everybody else in their small group does and now they're teased because they don't go along.
[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't we want kids to be like that?
[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_02]: So well done.
[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_02]: By the way, these are connected qualities and I might just talk to the very back of the book because you have an appendix of 48 healthy qualities and their opposites.
[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_02]: All the way from A for agreeable all the way to U for unselfish.
[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I love that piece and that's worth the book itself just to think about what those character qualities are.
[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_02]: But a lot of this are these connected qualities and you really want to, as you said, use complete and positive character so that you can actually, first of all, model it in yourself and pass that on to your children and grandchildren.
[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_04]: I think the book is for the parents.
[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, if we're becoming who they can be.
[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Many people are going to start reading it because they're moms and dads and grandparents and counselors and teachers and they want to be well by their kids.
[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_04]: But lo and behold, you're going to be confronted with the reality that if you don't possess it, it's really hard to pass it on.
[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_04]: We can grow.
[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Each of us can become more like Christ and more of a biblical character each day by day.
[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, we're confronted with who are we?
[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Who are we?
[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_02]: What kind of a model are we providing?
[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, we talk about that so often with a book that I've probably helped you sell better than any other one.
[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Screens and Teens.
[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Because you have been one of the individuals writing about that.
[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_02]: There's no time I've ever spoken on media where that picture of your book doesn't pop up.
[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_02]: So again, you know, I'm a fan.
[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_02]: But let's get back to head and heart because that's another aspect of what you're talking about here.
[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_02]: We can have in our head how we are supposed to act.
[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_02]: But again, that needs to make its way down to our heart and ultimately to our hands.
[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's one of the things you're talking about as well, isn't it?
[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_04]: So good.
[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_04]: The head, to understand it, you know, what is gratitude?
[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_04]: And what is joy?
[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_04]: What is resilience?
[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_04]: What is kindness?
[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_04]: To really make sure our kids know.
[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_04]: I think we're very flippant with our language and I'm not sure that they know for sure what those things are.
[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_04]: So defining, explaining, defending, modeling so that it's in their head.
[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_04]: And then to ask the Holy Spirit to do his work to transform the heart for righteousness.
[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_04]: So do we talk about feelings and emotions?
[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And do we talk about honoring God in those decisions?
[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_04]: And then, yeah, the hands.
[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Do we give them chances?
[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Like you can't teach kids to be generous.
[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Generous is one of my top 13.
[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I was surprised.
[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_04]: I wanted a really nice dozen, right?
[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Like I'm just black and white.
[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_04]: You've got the baker's dozen.
[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_04]: But I have a baker's dozen.
[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_04]: I had to add generosity.
[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_04]: So you can't expect kids to be generous.
[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_04]: If we're not generous, if we don't talk about it, if we don't talk about the feelings that come to you when you are generous,
[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_04]: how does it make you feel to give that away, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, again, this is one of the arguments I've oftentimes said, that you can talk forever to your kids about the need to be honest.
[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_02]: But they're going to learn a lot more about honesty when the phone rings and say, tell them I'm not here.
[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Whoa.
[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Because that's the problem.
[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And, again, this book will help you with your kids and grandkids.
[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_02]: But it's really for you, the parent, right?
[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And the grandparent.
[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_04]: We are going to be confronted with those things.
[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, and is that appropriate?
[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_04]: If so, why?
[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_04]: And how would you react if your kids did the same thing?
[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's messy, right?
[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_04]: It's muddy.
[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't like it that we do that.
[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_04]: I think there's a better way to say it.
[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Why don't we simply say, tell them I'm here but unavailable for the next 10 minutes.
[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Or, man, I'm just not in the mood to get into that right now.
[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm concentrating on something else.
[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Isn't there a truth that could be stated?
[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I wonder.
[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I think so.
[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And, again, we need to recognize that they are watching you.
[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_02]: They are sometimes the phrase I use, values vacuum cleaners.
[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_02]: They suck the values right off of you.
[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_02]: We need to take a break, though.
[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to talk about, okay, what are some of those Baker Dozen qualities?
[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_02]: What about the relationship between character and obedience?
[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'll hold two chapters on strategies and techniques to actually pass that on.
[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you're concerned about children, grandchildren, or even young people in your sphere of influence, this is a book you'll want to know more about.
[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk about that right after this.
[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_01]: This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.
[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Imagine being in the Army and watching a presentation about extremism.
[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_02]: It pops a slide with the title, Terrorist Groups, and under it are labels that identify the national right to life and anyone with a Choose Life license plate as an extremist.
[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Mind you, this slide just followed the slide of a terrorist group, ISIS.
[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_02]: This is not the first time we've seen such Army training slides.
[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_02]: During the Obama administration, we discussed on my radio program other slides that identified evangelical Christianity, Catholicism, and Mormonism as different forms of religious extremism.
[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Daniel Runyon is the senior counsel and chair of the military practice group at First Liberty Institute.
[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Her editorial documents what I just discussed and then goes on to explain that this incident at Fort Liberty was not a one-time error.
[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_02]: When members of Congress denounced such activity in their letter, the Army response was the slides were not vetted and implied this was an exception.
[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Daniel explains that the repetitive nature of these events in the Army over the past decade, as well as the woke ideology that has plagued our nation
[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_02]: and has destroyed the careers of thousands of religious service members over the past four years, make it hard to believe this wasn't intentional.
[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_02]: She mentions a briefing given to the Army personnel at Camp Shelby that identified the American Family Association as a hate group.
[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_02]: At another briefing, the Defense Equal Opportunity Institute explained that it considered extreme leftist organizations to be a reliable source for training.
[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, if the Army wonders why they're having trouble recruiting Christians to serve in the military,
[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_02]: they might want to look at what they're teaching in these training sessions.
[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.
[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_00]: For a free copy of Kirby's booklet, A Biblical View on Antisemitism, go to viewpoints.info slash antisemitism.
[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_00]: viewpoints.info slash antisemitism.
[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_01]: You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.
[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Privileged to have you in the studio with us today, Dr. Kathy Cook, and the book is entitled Parent Differently,
[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Raised Kids with Biblical Character That Changes Culture.
[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_02]: It is published by Moody, and you can find it in your local bookstore.
[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_02]: We have a link there.
[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, we also have a link to Celebrate Kids and all sorts of resources that you might want to know more about.
[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_02]: But it occurred to me, Kathy, that for just a minute, we might talk about the fact that there's a relationship between character and consequences.
[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think sometimes there's a hesitancy on the part of parents to say, I really don't want to talk about this because I didn't do such a good job before I was your parent.
[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think in some respects by sharing that, that can be a real helpful way to illustrate the dangers of not following biblical principles.
[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for bringing that up.
[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_04]: We are actually stronger.
[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_04]: We have more authority when we admit our mistakes because if kids think that we think we're perfect, they may be less likely to come to us with their own struggles and their own concerns.
[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_04]: So when we admit we messed up, it gives them freedom to admit they also messed up.
[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And one of the best ways to teach these qualities and how important they are is to admit to your kids how it felt and what happened when you made a mistake.
[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_04]: So true story, a dad read my book, went to work, didn't have a good day.
[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Three o'clock, there's a knock on the door.
[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_04]: His supervisor stops by to say, where's the report?
[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_04]: He was supposed to turn in something at two.
[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Totally forgot about it.
[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Was doing what he wanted to do rather than what he was supposed to do.
[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_04]: He gets home and his kids are like, they said, you know, to the kids, how was school?
[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And one of the kids, how was work?
[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_04]: And the dad admitted what happened.
[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_04]: And he sat his kids down and he said, I did what you sometimes do.
[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_04]: I did what I wanted to do.
[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_04]: I did what was easier.
[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Not what I was supposed to do.
[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Boss comes, knocks on the door.
[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I was embarrassed.
[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Now I'm going to have to convince him I'm trustworthy.
[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_04]: He might not want me to do a big report ever again.
[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to have to miss your soccer game because I'm going to have to stay home and get this done.
[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_04]: And I took out my calendar and I marked every Tuesday at two, there's a report due.
[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_04]: I made a note every Monday at two that the report is due 24 hours later because I don't want that to happen again.
[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_04]: So he demonstrated to his kids that he made an unfortunate decision to be lazy, to be forgetful,
[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_04]: to prioritize his want over his need.
[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_04]: And there was a consequence for that.
[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_04]: And when we demonstrate that and that it hurts the heart and the mind and it hurts relationships,
[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_04]: I think it motivates kids to take their decisions more seriously.
[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And again, I've run into parents that say, I really can't talk to my kids about abstinence because I was sexually involved.
[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't talk to my kids about not doing drugs because I was doing drugs.
[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Even your bad behavior, your lack of character can be a lesson of character to your kids.
[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely, Kirby.
[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_04]: And we can talk about how we were persuaded, how we were manipulated, how hard it was to change the direction,
[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_04]: how we regret, how it ruins relationships, and let the kids know.
[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Because we can teach from example, whether they be negative or positive.
[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Now, obviously, age-appropriate when the kids are ready.
[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_04]: And if I were to say to a kid, you know, I didn't do it the right way,
[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_04]: and 24 hours later that kid throws it in my face and is disrespectful,
[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_04]: I would call sin, sin in that moment and say, I have not given you permission, you know,
[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_04]: to disregard my influence just because I admitted to you how I behaved at your age.
[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_04]: That's where we draw that line and we still stand up for ourselves.
[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_02]: What about this idea of standards?
[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Because you have a section, good, better, and best.
[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And I mentioned that just a minute ago in passing, but it's worth coming back to,
[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_02]: because over the years, Kathy, I followed the attempt to try to teach character education in the public schools.
[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_02]: The problem is, okay, what's the character value?
[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, honestly, oh, most people go on that.
[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_02]: But as soon as you get into things like fidelity, honesty, past honesty, maybe abstinence,
[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_02]: all sorts of other things, oh, well, whose values are we going to use?
[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And it seems to me that, yes, society has some standards,
[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_02]: but if we're taking our cue from society, we're going to be in problem.
[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's why the subtitle says, Biblical Character That Changes Culture.
[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Can you speak to that for a moment?
[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I appreciate it.
[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_04]: The subtitle was really important to me.
[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_04]: It does not say, raise kids with biblical character who changed culture.
[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_04]: It says, raise kids with biblical character.
[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_04]: That changes culture.
[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_04]: It is our character that allows us a position of influence.
[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And so this is what we've got to teach our kids.
[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_04]: It's true for us, and it's true for them.
[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_04]: If we want to have a better influential position at work or on a committee we serve on
[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_04]: or in the choir at church, what's our character and what's going to show up there?
[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And the standards, you know, Kirby, we can only be in charge of the kids when they're with us, I suppose.
[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we're parenting them.
[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_04]: If we send them off to the public schools, if we send them off to a youth group, to a Girl Scout troop or whatever,
[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_04]: we don't have a lot of control there.
[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And you've got to make those decisions and really think about whether or not that's wise for your children and your family.
[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_04]: But at home, you know, good, better, and best.
[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_04]: This is a good choice.
[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_04]: This would have been a better choice, and this is the best choice.
[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Why?
[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Because God speaks of this choice.
[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_02]: One of the things you talk about is the idea of habit, because if you're going to develop a character,
[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_02]: you've heard the phrase before.
[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, if you develop a habit long enough, it becomes part of your character, and you go into that in some detail.
[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk about that, because that really is your chapter on how children develop a mature character to affect culture.
[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's where the two come together, right?
[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_04]: We want our character and our children's character to be complete.
[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_04]: So you mentioned that I have 48 qualities.
[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_04]: In one of my books I wrote, I have 100 qualities.
[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I know you did.
[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_04]: I only chose 48 because the Lord has shown me how overlapping they are, if I can put it that way, and we can talk about that.
[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_04]: So I want kids to have a complete character.
[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_04]: How many of the 48 are they capable of exhibiting and choosing and using?
[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Then I want them to have a consistent character.
[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Wouldn't it be great, Kirby, if our children were kind to strangers and to loved ones?
[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Wouldn't it be great if they were generous in times of want and in times of need?
[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Resilient with a piano teacher and a coach and a mom.
[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_04]: So are they consistently able to exhibit those qualities?
[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_04]: And then the third way that I look at mature character is, is it automatic?
[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Can children automatically be patient, kind, good, resilient, brave, et cetera, or do we have to always remind them?
[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_04]: And if we always have to remind them, that's not ideal.
[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Kathy, you talk about the 48, but I don't know that you picked Baker's Dozen.
[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And part of that has to do with the fact that certain ones are of greater value.
[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Gratitude is one of those ones you talk about.
[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I've heard you talk about it almost every time we've done an interview because we should be grateful for all that God has given to us.
[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, absolutely, my friend.
[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, if you're a believer, come on.
[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_04]: God created you and he didn't have to, but he wanted to.
[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_04]: And Jesus went to the cross for us before we even knew to ask him to.
[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_04]: And then we get the gift of the Spirit and we get the kindness of the Lord and grace and mercy and truth and wisdom and pattern and passion.
[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And I could go on and on.
[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_04]: And so for the believer, we should be known by our gratitude.
[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_04]: There should be, and I don't mean just that we say thank you, but that we have an attitude that goes forward from us,
[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_04]: that we look for what is good and we talk about what is good and we're grateful.
[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And grateful is a parent virtue, both biblically and in secular research.
[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_04]: It gives rise to others.
[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Grateful people are joyful people.
[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Joyful, as you know, is number two on the list.
[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_04]: And gratitude and joy are, what would you say, Kirby, like siblings or maybe even husband and wife.
[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_04]: They're very close.
[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And they create and they cause the other one to develop as well.
[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's what changes us and it's what gives us power and position in our culture.
[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_04]: I also chose gratitude and joy as one and two because technology is robbing children of both of those.
[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_04]: If we allow our kids to use way too many devices, way too many minutes a day, they'll believe that they can be happy all the time.
[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_04]: They X out of games they might lose.
[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_04]: They multitask.
[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_04]: They only answer the phone if they're in the mood because they can see who it is.
[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Unlike when we were their age, we had to answer it because we didn't even have an answering machine.
[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_04]: And so we can develop this happy attitude.
[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to be happy all the time.
[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_04]: And then entitled, I can have whatever I want when I want it right now.
[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_04]: And entitlement and happiness will just about kill you.
[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_04]: It's not the way that we ought to be living in our lives.
[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I wanted to present two qualities that will go against the cultural norm and will stand up and will be noticed.
[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Not because we want to be noticed.
[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Not because we're amazing.
[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_04]: But because God deserves to be noticed.
[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And what's so interesting, if we could digress for just a minute, Jonathan Haidt, who's been on the program before,
[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_02]: The Coddling of the American Mind, has a new one coming out about generations.
[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Again, notices this incredible uptick, especially among women and girls, but even among boys, but especially among girls,
[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_02]: just shortly thereafter when you've got things like Instagram and other social media.
[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's hard to have gratitude and it's hard to not have an entitlement mentality if indeed everything is lying to you.
[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And you've got a whole section in your previous book, which I just mentioned before, screens and teens about the fact that they are, in some cases, being lied to by their technology.
[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_02]: The existence of the technology and the existence of that kind of social media culture causes them to believe some things that aren't true.
[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, absolutely.
[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_04]: So praise God you're here.
[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Because there are shows like yours that have a consistent record of truth.
[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Like you battle the tough stuff.
[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Like the second hour after me, come on.
[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_04]: You're going to go where a lot of people aren't willing to go.
[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And I really appreciate that.
[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_04]: We need to stand up and say, this is right and this is wrong.
[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_04]: And here's the standard.
[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_04]: God's word, God's ways, God's will.
[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, let's not shy away from that.
[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, again, gratitude.
[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And, of course, we haven't even given you the baker's dozen, so we'll do that.
[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Also, what's the relationship between character and obedience?
[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a very good chapter there as well.
[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And then what are some of those core values?
[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And then to begin to think about how to implement that.
[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you are appreciating this, step back, take some notes.
[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_02]: If you would like to know more about Celebrate Kids, that is the link that we have on the website today.
[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Just click on the picture.
[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_02]: That will take you to CelebrateKids.com.
[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_02]: You can see a picture of Kathy there.
[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And you can get books and resources from her.
[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_02]: You can also schedule her to speak.
[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_02]: As if she needs any more speaking opportunities.
[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_02]: From the time I turn around, I'm seeing a promotion for her.
[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Or if you'd like to have some of our other books,
[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_02]: you've heard me already promote one or two of the other books out there as well.
[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_02]: All resilient kids.
[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And, of course, I mentioned screens and teens and great smarts.
[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, if your kid's maybe not learning the way you did,
[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_02]: maybe you need to understand their different learning styles.
[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_02]: There's just so many good resources there.
[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you'd like to know about that, that's on the website.
[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, if you're interested in the book, we can look for it in the local bookstore.
[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_02]: But if not, you can get it from her.
[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And we have a link there as well.
[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_02]: So published by our friends at Moody.
[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_02]: It is a wonderful book.
[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And we've only covered about half of it.
[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So we'll cover the rest right after these important messages.
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[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And now, here again, is Kirby Anderson.
[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Continuing our conversation in studio today with Dr. Kathy Cook.
[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_02]: By the way, if you'd like to watch this again or send it on to someone with benefit from that,
[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_02]: we have a link on our website where you can watch or listen to it.
[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And simply go to pointofview.net.
[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a red button there that will allow you to do so.
[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Again, founder of Celebrate Kids, and we're talking about this new book.
[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Came out in November, Parent Differently, Raise Kids with Biblical Character That Changes Culture.
[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Kathy, I guess we might as well talk about character and obedience.
[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_02]: The two come together, but again, people might not understand,
[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_02]: since you've taken a whole chapter, how those two interact.
[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_04]: I love the question.
[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, the joke is that if I would have titled the book, Raise Kids with Obedience,
[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, Raise Kids with Obedient, I would have sold many more copies.
[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_04]: But it can't be about obedience, Kirby, because obedience is rule following.
[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Obedience requires that kids know the rules, and they change everywhere you go.
[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_04]: And a lot of kids think that obedience requires someone to watch me.
[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm going to be obedient to avoid punishment or to earn their reward.
[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_04]: And so that isn't what it's about.
[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Biblical character, it's about changing the heart for righteousness.
[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's about being well and doing well when no one is looking.
[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And the other reason that I really stress character here is that if you think about it,
[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_04]: all disobedience is rooted in negative character.
[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, for sure.
[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay?
[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_04]: So I could say to a kid all day long, would you stop arguing?
[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Stop arguing.
[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Just stop arguing.
[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_04]: But arguing is rooted in negative character.
[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Arguing is a lack of flexibility.
[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Arguing is selfish, self-centeredness.
[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Arguing is a lack of submission.
[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_04]: So instead of saying stop arguing, what if we step back and slow down, observe longer,
[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_04]: as the Spirit revealed to us, what are the heart issues that are causing the choice to argue?
[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And what if we stress discussion of those?
[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_04]: So what if we taught flexibility?
[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Then we don't always get our way, and here's why.
[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_04]: What if we taught authority and submission in a biblical way?
[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_04]: And then the arguing goes away.
[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I said before that parenting is one of those very few jobs where you are going to eventually put yourself out of a job.
[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_02]: You want your children eventually to make the right decisions, not because I'm looking over your shoulder,
[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_02]: not because we have rules in this household, because I want you to do the right thing.
[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And there are only a few situations like that where you're basically working to put yourself out of a job.
[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe that's in the military where you eventually want somebody to take your position.
[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Or around here it seems like I've educated a number of people that go on to other ministries and are no longer here.
[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But that is, I think, a striking point about obedience, that you really want them to make right decisions while they're in the home,
[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_02]: but eventually make those right decisions when they leave the home.
[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So chapter three is just really important to understand how you prioritize obedience and how that connects up with character.
[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_02]: What are some of the core ways to choose these qualities?
[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_02]: That's one of the questions that I think people have.
[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, you're choosing these qualities and you're using biblical truths or principles to do that.
[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_02]: But how out of your 48 did you come down to 13?
[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Part of it was, again, technology.
[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Because technology is such a powerful influence on our generations.
[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_04]: So, again, that's where the joy and gratitude and a few others come from.
[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Self-efficacy is the third one, a phrase that a lot of people might not know, which is okay.
[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Self-efficacy simply means that I can be effective on my own, not rebellious,
[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_04]: not that I don't need authority, but that I can do what I've been asked to do.
[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_04]: So as an example, you know, you can say to your kid, you know, go load the dishwasher.
[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_04]: But if you've never taught your child how to load the dishwasher, she's fearful
[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_04]: because she doesn't want to put the bowl in the wrong place or the wrong plate in the dishwasher that doesn't go there.
[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_04]: So she's going to resist and rebel and maybe, you know, I don't want to do it.
[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_04]: It's not my turn.
[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_04]: When we teach children how to be effective, how to load a dishwasher, how to sweep out the garage,
[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_04]: how to put yourself to bed, how to wake up in the right mood, when you teach children how to be,
[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_04]: then they're going to be full of this self-efficacy, which is a confidence which allows them to then live rightly and stop the debate.
[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_04]: So those are the top three.
[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Self-respect.
[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_04]: If I don't respect myself, nothing matters.
[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Self-control.
[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_04]: If I can't control myself, I'm not going to be successful at anything.
[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_04]: And then respect for others or other-centeredness is the sixth one because we do what we do for the benefit of others.
[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Kirby, you and I don't have good characters so that we have good character.
[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_04]: We have biblical characters to influence other people, but that only happens if we respect other people and want to be influential in their lives.
[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_04]: So those are the top six.
[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And those six alone, if that's all you do as a result of being blessed by the show or the book, then I'll be just so happy for you.
[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_02]: So we go 48, 13, 6.
[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I pick out a couple that also are ones I know that you're thinking about.
[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Resilient.
[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_02]: That was one of your 13.
[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought that was interesting because, Kathy, I am getting the sense that the younger generation sometimes tends to give up too easily.
[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Now let's go all the way back to the generations before us, the so-called greatest generation.
[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is a generation that went through the Great Depression, fought in World War II, and dealt with a completely devastated economy after we fought World War II.
[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And yet we're resilient.
[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And now I see some of these young people, they just don't necessarily think they're going to make it until tomorrow.
[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And it isn't just my opinion, but I mentioned the book Coddling of the American Mind by Jonathan Haidt, who's not a Christian.
[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_02]: You have all sorts of other people talking about the canceling of the American mind.
[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_02]: You're talking about individuals that are being referred to as snowflakes.
[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Resiliency is a big issue.
[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_02]: It is.
[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's one that we're going to have to teach as well.
[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's why I wrote a whole book on that, the book before this book about resilient kids.
[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_04]: We don't want to snowplow them and bulldoze them and helicopter them so that they're only dependent upon us.
[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_04]: We have to raise up kids who can do well and be well when we're not there looking to understand that the valley experiences.
[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Again, if you're a Bible reader, biblical character, the scripture teaches us very clearly that in the valley we grow up.
[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I ask my audiences, how many of you have better character because of the challenges God's allows you to walk through?
[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_04]: And 80% of the people raise their hands.
[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_04]: And how many of you have a greater faith in the God of the Bible because of the challenges you've experienced?
[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_04]: They all raise their hands.
[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And so if we don't allow our kids to walk through valleys well, they won't mature.
[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_04]: No wonder they're dropping out of school, church, and their faith because they don't know who they are and what they're capable of in a tough time.
[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_04]: That means moms and dads have to keep their mouths shut and leave the room and let kids go through some of the painful experiences.
[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_04]: If you choose, and that's one of the powerful words, if you choose to be lazy.
[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I didn't choose to.
[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_04]: No, you chose to be lazy.
[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_04]: You chose to forget.
[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_04]: No, I just forgot.
[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_04]: No, you chose to forget.
[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_04]: To choose or to choice.
[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Those are powerful words.
[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_04]: If your kids choose to turn around and do a U-turn at the beginning of every hard thing, they won't develop into who they could be.
[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And you're going to pay the price as their parent, and they're going to pay the price as the kid.
[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_04]: So we support them in the valley and develop their resiliency.
[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_04]: It's so important.
[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Again, I might recommend the other book, but you just mentioned it a minute ago in passing.
[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And again, that's one of those issues where we're running into the increase in anxiety, depression, and everything,
[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_02]: when actually, in many ways, this life that we have right now is easier than it's ever been before.
[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, just think of what it was like just a few decades ago, much less a century ago.
[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And yet today, the smallest little problem, we often try to minimize it by saying, well, it's kind of a first-world problem you're having right now.
[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_02]: But nevertheless, that is why resiliency is a really important issue and why you wrote a book about it.
[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_04]: And also perseverance, diligence, effort.
[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Effort is one of the top 13.
[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Effort, good old-fashioned hard work, leads to diligence, effort over time, perseverance, effort in spite of difficulties.
[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_04]: I've asked Summit students.
[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm so privileged to be a part of Summit, and so 16- to 25-year-olds, and I'll say to them,
[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_04]: how many of you have dropped out of a course after a hard quiz?
[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_04]: And so many kids raise their hand, and they look down embarrassed when they realize that they did not do well on one quiz,
[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_04]: and they dropped the course.
[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know about you, Kirby, but if I didn't do well on a quiz, I studied harder.
[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Today's generation wants to avoid any evidence that they're incapable of something.
[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_04]: They don't want to have to work hard, so they drop out.
[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_04]: But it's not good for them long haul.
[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think students begin to know that, but then they don't know what to do instead of dropping out.
[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_04]: And this is where moms and dads walk with them and teach them.
[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Hard work isn't hurtful.
[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_04]: It can feel unpleasant in the moment, but look at what it gets you.
[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Keep your eye on the prize.
[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_04]: The valley isn't pleasant, but the mountaintop can be.
[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Well said.
[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Well said.
[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_02]: One other one I might just take before we take a break, discernment.
[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_02]: In a couple of weeks, we have Jack Hibbs going to be sitting in that studio.
[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_02]: He's got his new book out all about all of the deception in our world,
[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_02]: ten chapters about deception and the need for discernment.
[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think young people need it more than ever because they're confronted by all those social media.
[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Can they discern truth over lie?
[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Can they discern what is good and what is evil?
[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Can they discern a little lie?
[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Can they discern manipulation versus motivation?
[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Can they discern who is good for them and who is not?
[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Who to follow and who to not follow?
[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Who to believe and who not?
[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_04]: So it's a discernment of people and beginning to see under the layer.
[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, what's their motive there?
[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Did you hear the tone of voice?
[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Did you see the body language?
[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Have you looked him up on the Internet to see what else he really believes?
[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, have you taught your kids how to discern?
[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Why are you following that band or that?
[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Why do you like that movie?
[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_04]: How does it make you feel?
[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Why do you like feeling that way?
[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_04]: So self-discernment is what I'm feeling in line with my values.
[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_04]: So a lot of discernment is about self.
[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Am I fitting in where I say I belong?
[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_04]: And then discernment of people and then discernment of ideas.
[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_04]: It's so critically important.
[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_02]: One of the many qualities listed in the book, Parent Differently,
[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_02]: again, is published by Moody Press and it is written by Dr. Kathy Cook.
[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And when we come back, we'll talk a little bit more about some of these strategies,
[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_02]: some teaching and improving character.
[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And again, if you are interested in the book,
[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_02]: we have information about Celebrate Kids and the book,
[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_02]: all of it on our website at pointofview.net.
[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_02]: As I mentioned before, if you'd like to listen to this again,
[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I know we both talk pretty fast and there's a lot of content here,
[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_02]: you can listen to it again.
[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Or if you'd like to pass it on to someone else,
[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_02]: you can click on that button that says watch or listen
[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_02]: and send it to someone else or listen to it or watch it again.
[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll be right back.
[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_01]: You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.
[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Back for a few more minutes in studio with us today, Dr. Kathy Cook.
[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And again, she is with Celebrate Kids.
[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_02]: The last couple of chapters, and you've devoted two chapters
[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_02]: to this whole idea of strategies for teaching and improving character.
[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, let me pay you another compliment.
[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Many times, one of the things I've appreciated about your books and our interviews
[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_02]: is you will say, don't say this.
[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Here's a better way to say that.
[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And you have a whole section there on phrases to use.
[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And you've already given us some samples, but give us a little bit more
[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_02]: because oftentimes, as parents, we see a behavior that needs to be corrected.
[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_02]: We recognize we want to teach character, but we're kind of thinking,
[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_02]: okay, how do I get that conversation going?
[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I love that.
[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much for the affirmation.
[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I want to teach parents how to talk rightly.
[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_04]: So one example would be to talk more about what you want than what you currently see.
[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_04]: So rather than you're so impatient, use the word patience.
[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_04]: They're drawn to your words.
[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_04]: They become who we tell them they are.
[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_04]: So if you keep saying you're so impatient, you're so impatient,
[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_04]: they're confident that they're very good at impatience,
[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_04]: but that's not what you want them to be good at.
[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_04]: So catch them being patient or give them a dream that they're capable of that.
[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_04]: So that's one idea.
[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Talk more about who you want them to be than who they currently are.
[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Another thing that I will, it could be on my grave marker, it's so important to me,
[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_04]: use the phrase you are being.
[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_04]: So rather than you are thoughtful or you are careful or you are resilient or you are brave
[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_04]: or you are kind, which sounds like it's a permanent condition of the soul,
[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_04]: which is never true, we say you are being patient.
[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_04]: You are being generous.
[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_04]: You are being outgoing.
[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_04]: You are being other-centered.
[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm proud of you, Elizabeth, for putting others first.
[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for being other-centered.
[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Use the right language and say you are being, which indicates it was a choice,
[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_04]: and that's the power word I mentioned a minute ago.
[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_04]: You can choose this or this.
[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Which is it going to be?
[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_04]: And let your kids know that it's the heart that chooses.
[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_04]: This is why we have to be in the Word of God, have to pray over our kids,
[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_04]: and have to be good models of it all.
[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Another idea that I had, and this puts your two books together,
[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_02]: you can see something on television or in the movies or even a TikTok, YouTube video, whatever,
[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_02]: and say, isn't that a great illustration of patience, generosity, compassion, whatever it might be.
[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_02]: So you don't even have to necessarily always use parent to child.
[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_02]: You can actually triangulate it, parent to child looking at a third individual or a media.
[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_04]: I love that.
[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_04]: One of my favorite ideas that, well, not one of my favorites, an idea that people have appreciated,
[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_04]: is if you're at a store with your kids or you're in the church lobby with your kids,
[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_04]: tell them to look for somebody who's joyful.
[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Tell them to look for somebody who is being kind or being careful or being compassionate or whatever.
[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And don't say, hey, Mommy, she is compassionate.
[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't shout it out.
[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_04]: But just squeeze Mommy's hand when you notice what we're looking for,
[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_04]: because if they can observe it in someone else, that's great praise of your instruction
[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_04]: because they see what it is that someone is doing.
[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Well said.
[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_02]: One of the things that I thought was interesting, teach like a reporter thinks.
[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_02]: That one got my attention because people understand that a reporter says,
[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_02]: okay, what, when, how, where, why, and all that.
[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_02]: But what you're talking about there is another strategy for teaching characters.
[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Isn't that right?
[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_04]: So let's say we're going to talk about being humble, like one of the 13, being humble.
[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_04]: What is humility?
[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_04]: And you might want to contrast it with pride.
[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Is it the same as teachable?
[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_04]: So what is humble?
[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Why is it valuable?
[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_04]: How do we become humble?
[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_04]: When should we be humble?
[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Where would we be humble?
[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Et cetera.
[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, how does a reporter think?
[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_04]: What, when, where, who, why, how?
[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_04]: And we can do that for ourselves.
[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And I would rehearse that before talking to my kids.
[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_04]: If I noticed my kids were prideful and I wanted to go have a conversation about how humility is better,
[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I would make sure that I could answer those questions before I would have a conversation with my kids.
[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_04]: And this is something people have told me has helped them develop their own character because they, we don't think deeply about it.
[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_04]: We're all in a hurry, Kirby.
[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_04]: There's so much to do.
[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_04]: We're, we're, you know, product driven.
[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_04]: So what's the next product?
[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_04]: What are we going to get done today versus who are we today?
[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_04]: And we can slow down and we can look at these 48 qualities and define them in that reporter kind of way.
[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_02]: That's good.
[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_02]: One of the other ones, always study your children.
[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And that also opens the door to all your other books because if you are a parent, you probably have noticed that each one of your children are different.
[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_02]: They perceive things differently.
[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Some might be left hemisphere.
[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Some might be right hemisphere.
[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Some are audio learners.
[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Some of them are visual learners.
[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Some of them pick up on these character qualities like that.
[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And others, it is just pushing a rock up the hill with some of those kids.
[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And so not only do you need to study God's word, you really need to be a good student of your own kids, don't you?
[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_04]: And this is, this is time consuming.
[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_04]: It's, it's what you love and like about them.
[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_04]: And then we defend our kids, our kids, because kids are like, you're not treating me the same.
[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_04]: And I love to say, well, if I treated you the same, that would be unfair.
[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_04]: You're not the same.
[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_04]: And I know that that's not going to work, but that's the philosophy, right?
[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_04]: So as an example, if you have somebody on the autism or Asperger's spectrum, other centeredness looks very different for that child than it does for an outgoing extrovert who doesn't have that diagnosis.
[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_04]: So if you have a child on the spectrum who lifts his eyes to make eye contact, that is praiseworthy.
[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_04]: If you have a child who is outgoing and confident and other centered and chooses to ignore someone, I would have a conversation with that kid because you know what he was capable of.
[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Somebody who's introverted is going to behave differently from extroverted.
[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Somebody who's academically confident, again, will be different.
[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, know who they are and know what they like.
[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_04]: And you can, if you were to teach, like, let's say they like this little boy named Brian, then teach these qualities when they're in a relationship with Brian.
[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't expect them to learn the qualities when they're with a kid they don't like.
[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Start teaching with a kid that you know that they resonate with and have them develop their confidence and their ability to have a conversation, you know, to be good, to be outgoing or whatever.
[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And then hope that they can transfer that ability to a friend, to a relationship that they don't even like.
[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I just love the wisdom that comes from you and especially from your books.
[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's just talk about how to use the resource that is here because each chapter ends with questions to consider.
[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And the way you have that put together is usually anywhere from two to four questions.
[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_02]: You always have a key Bible verse.
[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So talk to parents how they could use this book.
[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I appreciate that so much.
[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_04]: That is designed for even a husband and a wife to have a discussion or even a parent and a kid to have a discussion.
[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_04]: In fact, one of the recommendations I make is that a whole family can work on equality.
[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Your whole family could work on joy.
[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Your whole family could work on compassion or humility, which would be good.
[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_04]: I also think small groups are very possible, neighborhood small groups, church small groups, a mom's group, a parent group, et cetera.
[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_04]: And if not that, then just thought-provoking for us.
[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_04]: So be a reader who's intentional, who wants to take this information and use it.
[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_04]: So slow down at the end of the chapter.
[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't just turn the page and go on and really think about what is it that I've learned and how could I use that.
[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_04]: What would be the proof that I've benefited from the book?
[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think teaching it in a group would be very good, a small group or a Bible fellowship.
[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_02]: For those of you that have connection to your Christian school, you know, we're real good at teaching the academics.
[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes we're not as good teaching about the character.
[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_02]: We say we're a Christian school.
[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think going through this in a classroom or with teachers to apply that in their classrooms would be really good.
[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So those are some ideas I have.
[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you agree or not.
[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Come on.
[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for saying that.
[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm a huge fan of Christian education, of course.
[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't want it to be all about academics and grade points and class rank.
[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, this is what changes us.
[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_04]: This is what gives us power out in the community to be influential and to be like Christ in a way that really matters.
[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Not just the academics.
[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_04]: It's who am I when no one is looking.
[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Parent differently.
[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Raise kids with biblical character that changes culture.
[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Kathy Cook is with us.
[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, the forward by David and Jason Bentham.
[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And, of course, they've been on the program.
[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Jim Daly, of course, writes an endorsement.
[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Mark Hancock's been with us.
[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It's Trail Life, as well as Patty Garibay of American Heritage Girls.
[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Tim Clinton, the counselor, and much, much more.
[00:42:07] [SPEAKER_02]: We have a link to CelebrateKids.com.
[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_02]: As they go there, there's a place where people can buy your books, your resources.
[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_02]: They can also book you to come and speak.
[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a podcast that people can listen to.
[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So all of it can be found right there at the website, which is CelebrateKids.com.
[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for promoting all of that.
[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_04]: I really appreciate it.
[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's good to have you here.
[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And, again, I'm glad that we were able to get you from Fort Worth all the way down here.
[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I know you've had a couple of other interviews, but it meant a lot that you would come in studio here today.
[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, it's so much more fun to be in person with you.
[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_04]: I love the energy, and I hope that your people have really enjoyed it.
[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I sure have.
[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, again, the book, Parent Differently.
[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And, again, we have information about it on the website, and we have a link to CelebrateKids.com.
[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_02]: But let's take a break.
[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I hope you appreciated the interview that we did with Kathy Cook.
[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But let me, again, mention that we're coming to a break.
[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_02]: If you would like to know more, there is information on our website at pointofview.net.
[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And if you can help us out financially, we would greatly appreciate that.
[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll be back right after this.
[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_01]: It almost seems like we live in a different world from many people in positions of authority.
[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_01]: They say men can be women and women men.
[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_01]: People are prosecuted differently or not at all depending on their politics.
[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Criminals are more valued and rewarded than law-abiding citizens.
[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_01]: It's so overwhelming, so demoralizing.
[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_01]: You feel like giving up.
[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_01]: But we can't.
[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_01]: We shouldn't.
[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_01]: We must not.
[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_01]: As Winston Churchill said to Britain in the darkest days of World War II,
[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Never give in.
[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Never give in.
[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Never, never, never.
[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Never yield to force.
[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what we say to you today.
[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_01]: This is not a time to give in, but to step up and join Point of View in providing clarity in the chaos.
[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_01]: We can't do it alone, but together, with God's help, we will overcome the darkness.
[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Invest in biblical clarity today at pointofview.net or call 1-800-347-5151.
[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Pointofview.net and 800-347-5151.
[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Point of View will continue after this.