Point of View October 6, 2026 – Hour 1 : Bridge Building Apologetics

[00:00:04] Across America, live, this is Point of View. Kirby Anderson. Thank you for joining me. It is the Tuesday edition of Point of View. So grateful that you can join with us. As I mentioned yesterday, we have four different guests. The two guests that we have in studio now are just two of a number that we will be talking to.

[00:00:31] And I think you will really appreciate the conversation. So without any further ado, let's talk about the fact that we have a conference coming up called the SHE Conference. Now, whether you can attend the conference or not, I think you're going to appreciate the conversation we're going to have right now about the role of women and how to minister to them. If you were listening yesterday, we had Darren Kinder in and we were talking about the fact that we really have a need to minister to men.

[00:00:58] This one is for you women. And I think you will appreciate the conversation. If you can attend, we, of course, have all the information necessary on the website at pointofview.net. Or, of course, you can go to Elevate Life Church as well. And let me first of all go around the round table. We have Sheila Craft, who is a pastor there at Elevate Life Church. And you and your husband are the individuals that actually co-founded the church in Frisco, Texas, didn't you?

[00:01:24] Yes, we did. In the year 2000, we started the church and we used to travel and minister. And we did marriage seminars and he did men's ministry, did promise keepers. And and then one day a pastor came to him and Pastor Mike Hayes and said, do you ever think you'll start a church? And he was 37 at the time. He said, well, answer that question when I'm 40.

[00:01:47] Well, you go get to the year when he turns 40. And there were several things that had happened in Frisco where my husband was asked to do a funeral for the matriarch of the city. And so he did that funeral. And in that funeral, there was a man that was the assistant fire chief of Frisco. And he said, I'm actually have brain cancer. And if God doesn't heal me, then he said, I would like for you to do my funeral.

[00:02:15] And my husband was like, oh, no, I'm just mostly pastors do this. And funerals are not the easiest to do. And we were traveling ministry. But from all of that is how we started the church because of those seeds that were planted with those two people, because he eventually his name was Gary Burns. He eventually passed away. And so we people kept asking, where do you pastor? And so we talked to our pastor and we said, we think that God's calling us to Frisco through these two funerals.

[00:02:44] And so when we met with him, he said, well, when do you think that you'd want to start? He said, well, maybe after the first year. So this was going into the year 2000, 2000. And so that was the all Y2K. And we thought the grid was going to go down, you know, being the people of faith and power. We said, let's don't do it the first week of January. Let's look at the second week. And the second week was my was January the 9th. My husband's 40th birthday. We could not have planned that. I mean, God did that.

[00:03:13] And so we started the church in the year 2000. And the amazing thing is that my husband is so about empowering women. He empowers me. That's why I'm the co-pastor. And he empowers his daughters who is he lives with us today and believes in women, believes in their voices and has always pushed me up. I'm those one. I'm the one that loves to be behind the scenes and I'll do all the work.

[00:03:42] I'm the Martha. And and so I will serve everybody. But he's always pushed me out on the stage and pushed me up. And I think it's spoken to a lot of women that they don't maybe have not had a voice, haven't had a husband that has encouraged them in that. And so that's what I love about my husband, because he empowers me as a woman. He empowers women in our church. And that's why we're doing this.

[00:04:06] She conference. And that's why we've been doing it for 21 years is because we believe in empowering women in our church. I just mentioned one of the other speakers is Lisa Harper been on the program with us. And we'll talk about a couple of the other speakers. But let's meet one of the other speakers. And we just already, in a sense, introduced to you, Kila Craft Ambrose. And I might just mention, not only are you a pastor, you do the podcast as well, don't you? Yes, me and my husband actually have a podcast called We Are the Ambroses.

[00:04:33] And we touch on cultural topics, spiritual topics to help people get truth so they can be empowered to make the best decisions in their life. Well, again, you and I had a lot in common because you are addressing some of the very same kind of issues we talk about here on Point of View. But give us a little bit of an overview because, first of all, your mom gave us a pretty good idea of the church. But this conference is going to involve people like Bethany Hamilton. She's the woman that lost her left arm to a tiger shark when she was actually surfing.

[00:05:03] And, of course, you two and some others. So talk about what the conference entails, and then I want to talk about how we can minister to women. Yeah. So, you know, like my mom said, we've been doing this women's conference for 21 years. And the purpose of it is to help women understand not only who they are in Christ, but to understand that God has a purpose for them on this earth.

[00:05:25] So we're obviously bringing in voices from different spheres that are biblically minded so that they can actually have tools they can utilize in their professional life, in their personal life, in their spiritual life, with raising their kids, with being married. You know, I think that a lot of women in the seasons that we're in now, like we're in this world where everything's going so fast and we just get these sound bites on Instagram.

[00:05:48] And a conference like this helps you to come together as the body of Christ to not only encourage each other, but to be really inspired by other people's stories in their lives and their testimonies so they can not only find freedom, but so they can have a foundation in their life that will be substantial enough that they can face what's out there because they realize they're not alone. Because the enemy tries to tell us, you're alone. You're the only one that's ever been through this. No one's ever going to understand you. And women are isolated, even though we're around so many people, women are isolated.

[00:06:17] There are more single women older than there ever have been in America. Right. And they are, in a sense, looking at what's happening, comparing themselves, feeling hopeless. And moments like this at She Conference help women to understand not only are you not alone, but God has a plan for you. And even though it might not look like how you thought it would look, it's going to be better because not only does he redeem all things, but he uses all things for his glory. And, again, I just think we have to know who we are in Christ, whether you're male or female.

[00:06:46] But, Sheila, let me come back to you for just a minute because for some of the women that certainly had to struggle with where their role was, we, years ago, had a booklet. And we had a picture on there of one woman who was obviously dressed to go to work, waiting for the bus, and another woman who was obviously a homemaker. And one was looking at the other both kind of with a sense of regret. And I think there's a sense in which we're still trying to figure out for women, and women are trying to figure out what is my role? What does God want me to do?

[00:07:15] And I think in some respects this conference might clarify that. Right. I think we live in such a world of comparison because of social media. So we look at other people's social media, and we think their life is so much better than our life. But, you know, we – and we all hear this that, you know, we're giving the highlight reels. I'm not going to put on social media, you know, some of my greatest struggles in the day. I'm going to share – I'm going to talk about the things that are good in my life and the happy things and, you know, share friends. And so sometimes we can feel alone.

[00:07:44] We feel like we're the only one going through tough times. And I know we've just recently, you know, as a mother, probably one of the most difficult times in my life, even throughout my Christian life, was that my other daughter, she experienced loss of a five-month-old baby that she had to birth. And so I think that a lot of times in our life, we're not just – I'm not necessarily sharing that on social media.

[00:08:08] But when we come together as women in a conference or we come and we get in a Bible study, you know, we can encourage each other, pray for each other, love each other, hear other people's stories, what they've been through, and see that they've made it through and that we can do the same. And I think that's what even this SHE conference does that I would love for people – we have people that are flying in from all around the country to come to this conference because people have moms and daughters in other parts of the world.

[00:08:37] And so they're coming in and flying in. So if anybody wants to be a part of this conference, you're going to feel empowered. You're going to feel strengthened. We're going to worship. We're going to love on you. You're going to get gifts. It's going to be amazing. Going to take a break. We'll be back right after this. This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:04] You know, for more than a decade, policymakers have been discussing the problem of food deserts. I started writing about this issue three years ago because there are zip codes of low-income neighborhoods without a grocery store that can provide fresh and nutritious food options. Dr. Merrill Matthews recently wrote about this issue and was on my radio program to discuss it. He reminds us that the major food chains like Walmart, Kroger, and Whole Foods have announced that they are leaving some major urban areas.

[00:09:29] Of course, we've also seen other retail outlets that don't sell food that are also leaving those same crime-ridden areas. The explanation is simple. They have become bastions of progressivism. Crime is on the increase because shoplifters and other criminals aren't punished. Record levels of unchecked theft and crime make the stores unprofitable. So let me add my perspective to his observation. Food deserts are a real problem, and wokeness, and especially critical race theory, make the problem worse.

[00:09:56] In a recent speech I gave in the Dallas area, I started with the economic fact that it takes $12 million to plant a grocery store in the region. And the risks are high given the limited profit margins. In two cities in which I've lived, the local grocery store went broke and closed. When a food chain announces that it will locate a grocery store, there are the inevitable charges of racism. A white grocery chain will put local black convenience stores out of business.

[00:10:22] Once it is built, the food chain must hire law enforcement to stop shoplifting and smash and grab. Again, you hear the charges of racism. And if only a few people are hired from the community, once again you hear the charges of racism. So food deserts are a real problem, but I suggest that the current political, economic, and cultural issues aren't making it easier to solve the problem. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my Point of View.

[00:10:49] Go deeper on topics like you just heard by visiting pointofview.net. That's pointofview.net. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Once again, if you would like to communicate with either of these individuals, let me just mention that we do have a link there. ElevateLife.com. Finally, a bold church is what it says. And, of course, you have all sorts of events. There's a way in which you can communicate.

[00:11:19] And I thought for just a minute, especially, Kila, since you're working in this area of issues and podcasts, let's see if we can talk about some of the kinds of topics you've been addressing, you and your husband, because this is another very significant issue. Women are caught in the midst of all sorts of different kind of messages. And some come from Facebook. Some come from TikTok. Some come from a variety of other sources.

[00:11:44] And as a result, it's certainly hard to kind of plot your way as a Christian in this 21st century world, isn't it? Yeah. I think that one of the common threads that women have fallen for the lie of is to follow your emotions. I mean, we're emotional beings. We are. We're wired that way for a reason. But I think that it's become very toxic. Like if you go back to the feminist movement and how it started and you actually look at all the roots of that, it is not a godly ideology. It's not connected with godly things.

[00:12:13] And if you look at what women have been trying to do with, you know, working, not getting married, not having children, even like the case that just happened with Lindsay Clancy, like women being moved by their emotions for her because they can maybe relate because they've dealt with depression, postpartum, anxiety. Instead of looking at the facts and looking at the truth and the loss of life, like you can just see how lost women are and they're following their heart. They're not following God. They're not.

[00:12:43] We're addressing whether it's a she conference or the things that we're trying to do as a church. We talk about actual cultural, real topics and we bring a biblical worldview into it. I mean, you know, the Barna research, 6% of Christians have a biblical worldview. 37% of pastors have a biblical worldview. Those are staggering statistics today in our world that we can look at and go. So someone could be a Christian sitting in a pew, sitting in a church, coming to a conference and not know what God says about that.

[00:13:07] And I think if you look at something like the Lindsay Clancy trial and the one holdout juror who was an African-American male Catholic who said, let's look at these children that lost their life, not just look at what happened to the mother because she still had choices to make. I mean, this is where we're at as women, where you have the women that are standing with her, like you're standing with someone who is a murderer instead of standing with the things of God. Right. If you know the Ten Commandments, I mean, thou shall not kill. Right.

[00:13:33] And it's not that you can't have compassion, but you don't have compassion for someone without looking at, well, what is the truth? What should happen here? Not just because my emotions feel a certain way. And that's really important to us is that we're giving people the truth of what does the word of God say about this? Not just what do I feel about this? Not just what does culture say? What does TikTok or Instagram or these reels that I've seen say? Because you haven't actually confirmed if those are true, but you can confirm if it's true in the Bible. That's right. So, yeah.

[00:14:02] Well, I just think if nothing else, we want to get you and Liberty together because we do a Next Generation Roundtable. I think that would be very helpful. But let me pursue that for just a minute because one of the individuals we've had on this program is Gat Saad, and he's written a book called Suicidal Empathy. Or you can think of Allie Beth Stuckey, who actually sat in that chair before she now works, of course, over there at the Blaze. And her book was entitled Toxic Empathy.

[00:14:26] And I did a commentary a while back in which I said empathy is good, but in its extreme, it's bad. In other words, it's a virtue when you certainly have empathy for individuals, but when you don't necessarily think biblically about those issues, then it can become a vice. And that's really what you're talking about, isn't it? Yeah. I think that empathy should lead you to compassion.

[00:14:48] It shouldn't lead you to, like, saying things like, I'm so empathetic that now I condone everything that you do in your feelings. I mean, we know what the Bible says about the heart. We know what, like, we can read in the Word of God, right? We know that God's close to the brokenhearted, but that doesn't mean when you're brokenhearted, your sins are okay, and, like, everything's fine just because you had a hard time. And I think that's where we have to hold ourselves accountable as women and stop blaming everything on our feelings.

[00:15:16] Our feelings might feel really strong, but just because you have feelings doesn't mean that they're true. And a feeling lasts 90 seconds, and it loops. And if you keep having that feeling after 90 seconds, you're choosing to feed into that loop. You know, 24 to 26 percent of women face mental illness, depression, anxiety. But what I will tell you is that 29 percent of women that get in the house of God, they actually receive freedom right off the bat just by being in the house of God, getting into a rhythm.

[00:15:45] So you're telling me I don't have to take, like, a drug. You're telling me I don't have to get into some kind of room. I can actually be in the presence of God. Yeah, the presence of God can actually heal you. The Word of God can actually help you find freedom. And even science is proving that. So I don't know about a drug that has a 29 percent chance of just automatically giving you that freedom. But if you can just get into the house of God, if you can get into places with people of faith, you don't have to sit there and be some statistic because we are the most medicated generation.

[00:16:14] And medication, while might be necessary, you know, listen to your doctors, whatever you feel. I'm going to listen to what the Word of God says because the Word of God has proven time and time again that it's true and it's living and it's active. And so I'm going to look to what God says about it. And the Bible says, cast your burdens on me. Like, be anxious for nothing. And if you actually look at God as your source and you don't look at the world to feed you, what you're feeding yourself will come out.

[00:16:39] And if what's coming out of you is not peace, joy, hope, love, and it's empathy that leads to toxicity, you're not pouring into yourself the things of God, right? You're following your feelings. And so I think with women specifically, you know, it's easy to blame a woman and say, oh, she just has so many emotions. Those are God-given emotions, right? Like we have emotions. We have empathy for a reason. But it's meant to lead us to compassion. But without conviction, empathy leads to toxicity. Yes.

[00:17:07] Sheila, let me come back to you because you're our cheerleader for a minute. And we already talk about some of this. It talks about, if you go to the website, powerful worship, inspiring messages, as well as community and connection. And I think as much as I illustrated yesterday that men are really disconnected and men's ministries always are floundering.

[00:17:29] Even now with women's ministries sometimes because women are working those, what I used to call steel magnolia connections that women naturally create aren't so much there anymore. So to actually, as we were just talking about with Keela, realizing I'm not the only person here and there are other people that are dealing with that. You're a church, which is a bold church, but it's also a church for the brokenhearted, isn't it? Absolutely. And, you know, even for this conference, you know, that's what we want.

[00:17:57] We want women to come along. Don't feel like you're all alone. Whatever you're facing, you're going through a difficult time. Maybe you've made really bad decisions and you've stayed away from the church. This is a time for women to find community because there's so much fun that happens while we're there. And then God just ministers to your heart. You know, our theme is more of you. And our scripture is John 330. And it's he must increase and I must decrease. And we want that in our lives.

[00:18:27] We want to increase who God is. But so many times we don't know who God is because we don't read God's word. And that's what we really want to challenge women. You know what? It's not just about coming to this conference and hearing a good word, but we're going to challenge them to really begin to get into God's word. Because if you don't know what God's word says, you don't have a foundation to stand on.

[00:18:46] And there's so many people that we're hearing, whether it's the Muslims, Islam, there's more that they know about the Koran than a lot of times we as Christians know the word of God. So we're challenging women. Get back to the word of God because we need him to increase in your life. And then all the things in your life like fear and insecurity and doubt and all those things, they really will decrease as he increases. Again, the theme is more of you, which I appreciate. And it's three days from now.

[00:19:16] So, again, we've given you some advanced time to actually drive in or even fly in if you'd want to. But, of course, for people that are locally, they can register. Let me also mention that even if you can't, you might think about wanting to do a conference like that. And I bet you could learn quite a bit from Sheila and Keela right now about what it takes to put one of these on. And certainly a good illustration of why we need to do more of that.

[00:19:39] So I wanted to bring you in not only to talk about the conference, but just the real need for women to understand what they can do and how they can work together, joining arms and joining hands and praying for one another. But, Keela, let me just real quickly see if we can get some people to begin to subscribe to your podcast. So how do we do so? Yeah, we're on Apple. We're on Spotify. It's just called We Are the Ambroses. And really, you know, we have this ministry in our church called Cultural Impact.

[00:20:09] Yes. And it was really birthed out of the desire to help inform people on what's happening locally, what's happening in our nation, so that we can have a biblical perspective on it. And so we do that within our church. You and my husband try to do that on the outside to try to help people as best we can so you can find us anywhere podcasts are. We are the Ambroses. We've got a link there. So that will make it very easy for people to do. But first of all, I want to say thank you both for being here. I know you're going to have a great conference.

[00:20:34] And, again, if you just happen to tune in, you can go to our website, pointofview.net, or go to elevatelife.com slash she. And you can find it there. But you can find all sorts of individuals. Bethany Hamilton. Of course, Lisa Harper. We've had her on many times as well. And, of course, Sheila and Keela. And you can find out a lot more about the worship, about the teaching, and about the conference schedule. But, again, you're getting really close. So if you've been postponing, now's the time to act.

[00:21:02] And if you'd like to know more about that, maybe to even put on a conference like that in your community, let me encourage you to do so. When we come back, very good book that has just come out by our good friend June Hunt, The Care and Counseling Handbook. Actually, she wrote the foreword, but it's a collection of great material that we're going to be talking about with a good friend, Dr. Eric Scalise. Go to the website at pointofview.net, and we'll be back right after this.

[00:21:26] In 19th century London, two towering historical figures did battle, not with guns and bombs, but words and ideas. London was home to Karl Marx, the father of communism, and legendary Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon. London was in many ways the center of the world, economically, militarily, and intellectually.

[00:21:56] Marx sought to destroy religion, the family, and everything the Bible supports. Spurgeon stood against him, warning of socialism's dangers. Spurgeon understood Christianity is not just religious truth. It is truth for all of life. Where do you find men with that kind of wisdom to stand against darkness today? Get the light you need on today's most pressing issues delivered to your inbox

[00:22:22] when you sign up for the Viewpoints Commentary at pointofview.net slash signup. Every weekday in less than two minutes, you'll learn how to be a person of light to stand against darkness in our time. It's free, so visit pointofview.net slash signup right now. Pointofview.net slash signup.

[00:22:49] Point of View will continue after this. You are listening to Point of View. The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now, here again, is Kirby Anderson. Back one time.

[00:23:16] Again, one of the things we talk about so very often is the need for us to be able to think biblically about our own emotional health. And, matter of fact, for those of you that see the wide shot, you'll see I have all sorts of June Hunt books here because I just thought it would be kind of fun since this is the newest book that came out from Hope for the Heart. And it is entitled The Care and Counsel Handbook, a quick reference guide of biblical answers for 100 real-life issues.

[00:23:44] Now, I know they have just more than 100, but there's 100 in here. And it is just overwhelming when you think about this. And so we thought it would be good to mention this book. And in the future, we may just do our interview on some of the topics in the book. But it is a great resource. You can go to our website, Point of View, right now and get this handbook. This is the resource that I think so many of us have really hoped to have.

[00:24:11] And we are privileged to have in studio with us today Dr. Eric Scalise. He serves as the President and Chief Strategy Officer for Hope for the Heart, which, of course, is a counseling ministry. He has been the former Senior Vice President for the American Association of Christian Counselors, individual who earned his doctorate, as well as I give you all sorts of other great information about him. If you go there, you can click on the button that says Read More. We also have a couple of links.

[00:24:39] One will take you to Hope for the Heart and all the information about Dr. Eric Scalise. And then the other particular link goes to some of the material that is available through the International Christian Coaching Institute. So if you're unfamiliar with that or if you find yourself saying, well, I want to find a Christian counsel in my community. And since we broadcast to about 40 different states, you probably are looking for something like that.

[00:25:08] There are some great resources and other things to find. But, again, if you're a pastor, a Sunday school teacher, if you're just a concerned parent, I think you're really going to want to get a copy of this, the Care and Counseling Hound book. And so, Dr. Eric Scalise, great to be sitting across from you. Oh, thank you, Kirby. I'm glad to be here. And I appreciate the work that you've done even before being at the Hope for the Heart, the work that you did with Christian counselors. We talked just a few minutes ago about the need for women in particular to really understand some of these issues.

[00:25:37] But I think men need to as well. But in some respects, let's get to the book because the foreword by June Hunt, of course. But most of the material is by her as well. But let's talk about how it came about. It's a really fascinating story, isn't it? It is. So June has been – we're celebrating our 40th anniversary this year. Yes, I know you are. And June has labored just beautifully.

[00:26:02] And God has gifted her this model for how do you deal with and address touchy, sensitive, difficult life issues and challenges. Not all of them are sticky wickets, but a lot of them are. And she started a radio program just like you've been on the radio for a long time. And she would talk to people who would have these problems.

[00:26:26] And she would go and what is out there within Christian resources to address childhood sexual abuse, domestic violence, anxiety, suicide, bullying. And when there wasn't, she would start writing. Right. And she would write. And we have a whole team of writers and editors and researchers. But she started off working with youth at First Baptist here in Dallas. And it has evolved since then.

[00:26:51] I've known June for about 20 years, a good maybe decade before I came here to Hope for the Heart. And I love the model in her heart for helping people. Again, about 800 pages, which is very thick. Yeah. And again, 100 topics. Let me just pick one to illustrate this. Depression. And she starts out, obviously, with God's heart on depression. Or it could be suicide or grief or whatever. Then signs and symptoms of depression.

[00:27:17] Then emotional and situational contributors to depression. Spiritual contributors to depression. Discerning God's purpose in depression. Along the way, some key verses to memorize. Then she always has some acronyms. And this one is C-O-N-Q-U-E-R. Conquer depression. Choices you can make. My personalized plan. Questions and answers. And so for every one of those, there is a very concrete look at that.

[00:27:45] And if you, at the end, say, well, I'd like to dig a little deeper. Well, then, for those people that will see the particular picture from a distance here, when we have the camera going to both of us, they will see we've got all these June Hunt books on spiritual abuse and on issues of Alzheimer's and prejudice and grief and whatever it might be. And I think the model works very well because some people say, look, I'm not a counselor. I'm not going to read an entire book on this. But I'd like to know a little bit more.

[00:28:15] Maybe there's some verses I could memorize. Maybe there are some action steps I could take. And maybe I can begin to address this issue without going to a counselor. Every topic in the Care and Counsel Handbook is based on one of our keys for living. And that's the larger books. And so that's an 800-page book, but it probably represents about 14,000 or 15,000 pages worth of content and research. Yes, it does. And so think of it as the Cliff Notes version of a whole topic.

[00:28:46] Great for pastors, counselors, ministry leaders, small group leaders, moms and dads who are like, I need to pull a few thoughts, a few ideas, a few scriptures, some practical suggestions because I need to address A, B, or C. And so the model it's based off of has four parts. And it starts with definitions. You mentioned depression. So it might be, what does scripture have to say about this thing we call depression?

[00:29:13] Every word related to depression is addressed. And then it moves from there into characteristics. Well, what does depression look like? What does it sound like? What does it smell like? How does it manifest? Then causes. What produces depression in people? And it wraps up with steps to solution. June's middle name, she would probably say is the word practical. So every scripture you can imagine, Kirby, about depression is in the full key.

[00:29:42] But she offers practical solutions, not just, hey, read these four scriptures, which is great. But it might be, you might need to talk to someone. Maybe it's something to do with your sleep patterns. Maybe it would be good to see a counselor. So it's a great balance of biblical truth and practical help, which is what she likes to say. Don't you think that this issue has become even more significant, whether we talk about your chapter on anxiety or depression or suicidal ideation?

[00:30:10] It does seem to me that the younger you are, the more likely you are to run into some of these issues. And so whereas before, we occasionally here at Point of View touched on some of these emotional issues and psychological issues. We have actually created a whole track, if you will, some of my booklets, some of the material that we write, because it does seem to me that we're in a time in which that's a bigger issue than has ever been before.

[00:30:36] It is. I often say if COVID was the earthquake that shook the world back in 2020, then the tsunami that followed was the mental health crisis that we're still dealing with today. And I've seen reports and studies. Some say we've lost an entire generation of young people because they were isolated. And young people, kids, middle schools, high schools, where they learn their social skills and relational skills by being together. And they weren't.

[00:31:04] And so things like loneliness, depression, anxiety, suicide, substance abuse have all ticked up. And that is there's nothing magical about being inside a church that says those issues don't follow you into the door. They absolutely do. And so the church, capital C, must address the things. We cannot ignore it, but we also have to destigmatize it. And we can say it's OK that you're in pain, you're hurting, you're confused.

[00:31:32] But there is something for you in God's word for this. You know, Eric, we were just talking just before you got in here about how the church is for broken people. Yeah. And in some respects, the church is better be prepared for this. And I know that occasionally when I'm asked, even next week I'll be teaching at a Bible school, but when I'm asked to teach at a seminary,

[00:31:51] I want to really inculcate and maybe even educate and empower and educate individuals who are going to go into the ministry to recognize that you're going to have to deal with a lot of issues that maybe previous congregations didn't have to deal with. Some of those are emotional issues. Some of them are technical issues like in vitro fertilization or artificial intelligence or all kinds of issues we talk about. But the bottom line is I think you're going to have to be more and more prepared.

[00:32:19] And that's why I'm just so thrilled about the Care and Counseling Handbook, because even though it's relatively thick, just almost everything you would need, 100 different topics in these 800 pages is there. And it's just a great resource for anybody, but especially anybody that's going to be involved in any kind of ministry. You're right, Kirby. It's a great resource and it gives you practical guidance. Like you said, you don't have to become a therapist.

[00:32:47] You don't have to have letters after your last name in order to walk alongside someone in pain. It's dealing with, especially for people of faith, the stigma of shame and guilt. We as believers sometimes think it's a faith issue if I wrestle with some depression or some anxiety or I get angry sometimes. And so we just don't deal with it. We don't talk about it, but it doesn't mean it's not there. Well, I think that's one thing that has changed used to be, well, we can't talk about that.

[00:33:16] And I think maybe now the church has recognized that. And if I remember right, wasn't David depressed? Why do people get so much out of the book of Psalms? That's right. It's almost like his private journal, isn't it? Yeah. Because what I love about the book of Psalms and Scripture in general is God doesn't edit out the good, the bad, and the ugly. We're going to take a break and continue our conversation with Dr. Eric Scalise, president of Hope for the Heart. We'll be right back.

[00:33:57] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Back once again, Dr. Eric Scalise with us. And again, he is the president of Hope for the Heart and chief strategy officer. And so, again, if you would like to know more about him, we have a link to his link on Hope for the Heart. So you can go to hopefortheheart.org. This will take you to leadership, and you can learn more about him and 40 years of hope. Just really good. I've been doing Point of View for 40 years.

[00:34:27] I started in 1986 when Marlon Maddox called me one time and said, Hey, I've been helping you to speak to the topic of media at DTS, Dallas Theological Seminary. I want to do a trade. Would you come in and be a guest host for Point of View? And that was in 1986, and that was 40 years ago, just about the time June Hunt was getting going and starting. And so, again, congratulations for 40 years. But also, you can find out more about Dr. Eric Scalise by clicking that first button.

[00:34:54] But you can also find out quite a bit about him and the International Christian Coaching Institute. Oftentimes, Dr. Scalise, we have individuals say, I want to find a counselor, but a biblically-based counselor. So, well, just go to the link we just provided. Yeah, as well as Christian Life Coaches. Yes. Yeah. A lot of great ones. Which brings me to one point you made just a minute ago, and that is there's a lot in these 100 different issues

[00:35:24] that you can deal with individually. For example, I've got one on grief and forgiveness and things like that. A lot of those I think you can probably deal with without a counselor. Some of these others are pretty significant. Childhood sexual abuse and all kinds of verbal and physical abuse and a variety of others. And so help us out because if somebody is able to get a copy of this book, and I would highly recommend it,

[00:35:50] they might say, well, there's enough here for me to do, but when should I begin to think that this is beyond my expertise and I need some outside help? I often think in people helping, Kirby, that people have a sense when, okay, this is over my head a little bit. Mm-hmm.

[00:36:07] And if they have enough sense of discernment and wisdom and humility to say, okay, I need to get you into the sort of the next tier of support and resource. It doesn't mean if you have a helping relationship, you cut it off. They might still need what you bring to the table plus talking with someone with a little bit more expertise and care. And so making that referral.

[00:36:34] So part of that is if you're doing ministry and you're in people helping ministries, get to know some competent Christian counselors in your area personally so you can make a referral to people you've actually talked with and have some confidence in. One of the values of this is the kind of book I want to hand to almost every seminary graduate because in the old days, Dr. John Reed actually had me occasionally teach a course in pastoral ministries.

[00:37:02] And what we were trying to do is equip individuals who were going to go into the ministry to deal with all these kinds of issues. And what I have found so interesting is oftentimes I would get a phone call years later saying, okay, Kirby, I'll admit I wasn't really paying much attention when we were talking about in vitro fertilization or infertility. What do we think about that? Of course, you've got a chapter here on infertility. Right. Or I've got a couple coming here very soon and they're talking about whether or not they want to pull the plug.

[00:37:32] Now, remind me what we said again about euthanasia. Right. And you've got a chapter on this. And I just think this is the kind of thing that if you're a pastor, you can't know everything about everything. And this is a great resource so that even as you are involved in counseling, and it doesn't matter if you are a professional counselor, like a pastor or counselor, or you're just talking across the backyard fence with your neighbor.

[00:37:57] However, there are times when I think people are going to want to dip into this and say, what could I say in the future to this particular friend? Because their daughter thinks she's trans. They've got a homosexual friend. They're dealing with infertility. Somebody seems to be having a lot of false guilt. Some people are dealing with depression. They've had a child that tried to commit suicide. You just say, what do I say?

[00:38:24] And the bottom line is I think you've got some great help right here in this book. Yeah. And I want to just point out that that book is the what do I say? But equally important in the process is how do I say it? Well said. And so at Hope for the Heart, we've also created training called Foundations of Care. It doesn't get into topics, but it talks about how should I become a better listener? How do I practice the ministry of presence?

[00:38:54] How do I bring God's word into the situation? How do I create trust in all those things? Because that piece is just as important as having the content and the knowledge, knowing how to bring it to the person. I've done a lot in lay counseling and co-wrote an updated book with a colleague of mine, Ida Fuller. And he graciously let me do most of the research. And here's what we discovered. Kirby, it's fascinating. Kirby, a competently trained lay counselor.

[00:39:23] Someone has no formal education or letters after their last name is about as effective in terms of outcomes as a licensed clinician in most presenting issues. And I would imagine, especially if they've been through that. I've said before that some of these volunteers we have at the pregnancy resource centers, if they've been through an abortion or been thinking about it or were a woman exploited by abortion, they can say so much more than the professionals I found.

[00:39:53] And so that makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? And what we discovered, because the question is, well, why is that so? Why? And my clinical colleagues, because I hold three licenses, don't like to hear that because they spend a lot of time and money getting that degree and that license. Here's what we learned. The predominant overwhelming factor that determines outcome has everything to do with the quality of the relationship between the one seeking help and the one offering it. Yes. It's relational.

[00:40:22] So if we can give people the relational piece combined with the content inside this, I feel like we're helping people with a full package. And so we do that at Hope for the Heart. I think so. Let me just mention real quickly, one of the chapters you have there is on gambling. We've been talking about that. And that is a concern that even surfaced yesterday and surfaced last Friday. It seems to be surfacing all the time.

[00:40:44] And we're realizing that when you have young people that are doing online gaming, then eventually it's very easy to have online gambling. Now, this is in June's section pretty small, but I think it's going to get much larger because it's become a big issue for these young boys and young men. And I just think it's just another illustration of the fact that you're really out in front of this issue and talking about some of the kinds of issues we find ourselves talking about every day here on Point of View. Right. We have a whole key on gambling. Yes.

[00:41:14] So like about 100, 150 page books. So there's a lot there. But gambling is an issue, especially with young people, because we have trained our young people to seek instant gratification. I forget carpe diem. I want carpe manana. I want tomorrow, today. And so we're in this fast-paced, push-button, instant everything world. And the nature of gambling is flip a switch, pull a lever, press a button, make a bet, and you can get instant gratification.

[00:41:44] Or it's like, it didn't work that time, but I can instantly try again. And so it fuels a little bit of the ethos of what we've actually been creating through technology. And for that undeveloped mind and for this whole technology, it's amazing how technology, and especially social media, has taken a bad problem and made it worse. Pornography, gambling, you can go through the long, long list. But we're just about out of time. But let me just, again, encourage people to go to Hope for the Heart. There's a couple of ways in which you can find out about this.

[00:42:13] First of all, we have information about the book in case you'd like to get it. I'm sure you'll be able to find it in your local bookstore. But, again, hopefortheheart.org. We also have a link to the leadership there. And you can find out more about Dr. Eric Scalise. You might like to have him come and speak at your group, maybe even get copies of this, and then train people right there in your church. There's just all sorts of ways in which you can interact. But most importantly, let me just say congratulations for 40 years.

[00:42:39] I know you weren't there 40 years ago, but certainly 40 years of great ministry and looking forward to more years in the future. So thank you for being here today on Point of View. Thank you, Kirby. My pleasure. Please say hi to June Hunt. As a matter of fact, she wrote a very nice note to Suzanne and to me. And I appreciate getting a copy of the book as well. Let's take a break. We're just one hour in. We've got another hour to go. All that coming up right after this.

[00:43:12] I'm sure that you've noticed that social media is now filled with information generated by AI. Dramatic descriptions of politicians and music stars supposedly making statements about a current issue. Leaning into the microphone. Looking into the lens. Opponents silenced. It's powerful. It's riveting.

[00:44:00] It's riveting. And it's all lies.

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