Point of View October 31, 2024 – Hour 2 : Motorhome Prophecies

[00:00:04] Across America Live, this is Point of View, Kirby Anderson.

[00:00:20] This is how we're going to talk about a journey of healing and forgiveness.

[00:00:23] I'll admit that this book, especially in about the first 200 pages, is tough reading because of some of the abuse and some of the difficulties.

[00:00:32] But again, if you have ever seen Carrie Sheffield on television or in other forms of media, you will say, I would never have guessed.

[00:00:41] And she is an individual that has been a columnist and broadcaster.

[00:00:45] She won a Robert Novak Journalism Fellowship Award, an individual that we have seen in various venues.

[00:00:52] She actually wrote editorials for The Washington Times under Tony Blankley.

[00:00:57] She's been on, of course, Fox News and Fox Business, MSNBC, Good Morning America, on the list that goes on.

[00:01:04] Pictures of her on HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher.

[00:01:07] An individual with a bachelor's degree from Brigham Young University and a master's degree from Harvard University.

[00:01:13] But the story is actually of a young girl, fifth of eight children, with a violent, mentally ill street musician father.

[00:01:23] Believed he was kind of a modern day Mormon prophet.

[00:01:27] We are going to be talking about abuse.

[00:01:29] We're talking about going to so many different public schools, traveling out on a motor home and all sorts of other issues.

[00:01:36] And eventually having her father excommunicated from the LDS Church.

[00:01:42] Her own spiritual pilgrimage, becoming a Christian in large part from some of the people we interview and have known here on Point of View.

[00:01:50] So this book has only been out a couple of days.

[00:01:53] You should be able to find it in your local bookstore, but we have a link to her website and the book, Motorhome Prophecies, A Journey of Healing and Forgiveness.

[00:02:02] Carrie, thank you for joining us today here on Point of View.

[00:02:05] Hey there.

[00:02:06] Thank you for having me.

[00:02:07] It's good to be here, Kirby.

[00:02:08] Let's, if we can, start off with Grandpa Ralph and your father Ralph, because the family story is incredible.

[00:02:17] Kind of difficult to read, but of course you had to live it.

[00:02:20] So that's even more of a significant issue.

[00:02:23] And you do kind of bring us through this whole issue of what it was like to live in that household.

[00:02:30] Can you kind of give us a background?

[00:02:31] Yeah, I've certainly had people tell me that the book is traumatic to read.

[00:02:36] And I say, well, imagine this reading it how it was to live it.

[00:02:41] And the background is that my grandfather was a very successful real estate developer, and he was the former Republican within the Utah legislature.

[00:02:52] My aunt, so that would be my grandpa's daughter.

[00:02:56] My dad's sister, she was Miss United States of America, Miss USA.

[00:03:01] She was the former Miss Utah USA.

[00:03:03] So he came from a pretty well-known prominent family in Utah.

[00:03:07] But I call our story, it's more of like a riches to rags story, actually.

[00:03:14] And I think it's kind of a squandering of inheritance that, unfortunately, partially due to sexual abuse that my dad suffered.

[00:03:22] When he was a toddler by a Mormon babysitter who was trusted by their family, my father said that later on caused him to feel suicidal ideation.

[00:03:33] And he had some other childhood traumas that he passed on in different ways to us as children, to the point where, like you mentioned, so I have seven biological siblings.

[00:03:46] And so my dad and mom, all ten of us grew up in large parts during our upbringing living in a motorhome with ten people.

[00:03:57] And the physics of that is very uncomfortable, not very great from a sewage standpoint.

[00:04:04] But, as I say repeatedly in the book, it's not about being poor.

[00:04:08] In fact, some of the most poor people in the world are the happiest.

[00:04:11] It's really about how you're treated.

[00:04:14] And, unfortunately, we did not have healthy treatment in the home consistently.

[00:04:20] And we had a lot of abuse spiritually, physically, emotionally, and spiritually.

[00:04:27] And the end result was that two of my brothers developed schizophrenia, and three of my siblings have attempted suicide.

[00:04:36] And I suffered with suicidal ideation and PTSD and depression on and off for a long time.

[00:04:42] And it was really, you know, I think what made it so upsetting, and I think for your audience would be interested, was that it was all done in the name of God.

[00:04:55] That my dad said it was the will that we were abused.

[00:04:58] And so it took a long time for me to disaggregate, okay, what is God's will?

[00:05:04] Is there a God?

[00:05:05] Is there a God that loves me?

[00:05:06] Or is there a God that's hostile to me?

[00:05:08] Or is it different to me?

[00:05:10] Well, again, that's one of the reasons I'm holding up right now.

[00:05:12] One of the booklets we've been making available recently is on abusive churches and about spiritual abuse.

[00:05:17] Because that abuse sometimes takes place with the kind of the divine sanction created by that abuser.

[00:05:25] And that is certainly one of those issues.

[00:05:28] And as you said, you have no desire or intent to destroy religion.

[00:05:32] As a matter of fact, later on, of course, we'll talk about your conversion.

[00:05:34] But you also, with four older brothers, being the oldest girl, I guess you were the first to escape the motor home.

[00:05:42] But can you, for just a minute, maybe give us a little bit of an idea of what that was like?

[00:05:46] Because you were always on the move.

[00:05:48] Your father figured out ways to escape paying his taxes and actually was involved in so many things that eventually the Mormon church excommunicated him because of these, or if you will, sort of relevant prophecies.

[00:06:04] They were always very appropriate at the time to actually be able to manipulate individuals, including, of course, your family.

[00:06:12] Right.

[00:06:13] Well, and it was a lot of coercion.

[00:06:15] I mean, my dad, he's 86.

[00:06:17] He'll be 86 in a few weeks.

[00:06:19] He's very charismatic.

[00:06:22] And, you know, at his peak, he was six foot two, blonde hair, blue eyes.

[00:06:26] His sister was Miss USA.

[00:06:27] So he was very attractive, good genes.

[00:06:30] And I think that that can happen a lot when you're talking about, you know, charismatic.

[00:06:34] I mean, his father was a politician.

[00:06:38] Being able to put on a good front to begin with.

[00:06:42] And then, but behind that facade, hiding a lot that's really not healthy.

[00:06:50] And so, you know, we lived in houses also.

[00:06:55] And that was the, by the end, I attended 17 public schools and home schools.

[00:07:02] Mm-hmm.

[00:07:02] So it wasn't just motor homes.

[00:07:04] We also, we had houses sometimes, but we also lived in tents.

[00:07:09] My mom gave birth when our family lived in a tent.

[00:07:11] Yes, it's true.

[00:07:12] We lived in.

[00:07:12] Yeah.

[00:07:14] And so it was really unstable.

[00:07:17] And, but my dad said that he was called by God to save America from destruction and that he would become president someday.

[00:07:24] And he said that it was God's will for us to play music on street corners and pass out religious pamphlets to try to convert people to be Mormon.

[00:07:32] And so it was, like I said, I think I try to be as compassionate to him in the book as I can to understand the roots of his childhood trauma and in his response to that.

[00:07:43] And I think that generationally, you know, the Bible talks about the sins being placed upon the children from the fathers.

[00:07:51] Right.

[00:07:52] That it can be intergenerational curses, but it also, on the flip side, in other places, talks about the hearts of the children turning to the fathers and that reconciliation.

[00:08:03] And so I think I wrestled with that toward the end of the book.

[00:08:09] I talk, I quoted Billy Graham, where he talks about the difference between honoring your parents and obeying your parents.

[00:08:17] And he says that, you know, the Bible says to honor your father and mother.

[00:08:22] Well, he doesn't say you have to necessarily obey them if they're asking to do something that's not alignment in alignment with God's will.

[00:08:30] And so when I was going through a lot of anger toward my dad, I was just honoring him with my words and my heart.

[00:08:39] And that helped me understand that difference between obedience and honoring.

[00:08:43] We'll take a break.

[00:08:44] Continue our conversation right after this.

[00:08:54] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:08:58] Erwin Lutzer calls for Christians to take a bold stand for Christ in a collapsing culture in his new book, No Reason to Hide.

[00:09:04] He says we should not be complicit with a culture, nor should we be complacent in the culture.

[00:09:10] Instead, we should be courageous.

[00:09:12] He identifies all sorts of threats coming at Christians from the culture.

[00:09:16] Most of them are coming from outside the church, though some have made their way inside the church.

[00:09:21] But one chapter was surprising to me.

[00:09:23] He focused our attention on the issue of self-worship.

[00:09:26] Erwin Lutzer uses an illustration he heard from John Stone Street, president of the Colson Center, that illustrated the modern self-movement.

[00:09:33] Suppose you are lost and have a compass that points to true north.

[00:09:37] That means you can figure the direction in which you're walking.

[00:09:40] But let's now suppose you have a magnet in your backpack that causes the compass to always point to you.

[00:09:46] Without a point of reference, you have no idea which direction you're headed.

[00:09:50] This is an apt metaphor for self-worship today.

[00:09:53] He also quotes Karl Truman and his book The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self, Cultural Amnesia, Expressive Individualism, and the Road to Sexual Revolution.

[00:10:03] I did an interview with him when the book came out and have been encouraged to see how many Christians are reading his book.

[00:10:09] He explains how Sigmund Freud's drive for sexuality was combined with Karl Marx's quest for political power.

[00:10:15] Sex is now politics.

[00:10:17] Our modern society now associates sexual freedom with political freedom.

[00:10:20] Therefore, the great sin in our culture is repression of our sexual desires.

[00:10:25] That is why Christianity, the Church, and the Bible are seen as enemies that must be overthrown.

[00:10:31] That is why we Christians find ourselves in a society of self-worship promoting sexual freedom.

[00:10:36] I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:42] For a free booklet on a biblical view on big data, go to viewpoints.info slash data.

[00:10:49] That's viewpoints.info slash data.

[00:10:54] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:11:00] Continue our conversation today with Carrie Sheffield.

[00:11:02] Motorhome Prophecies, A Journey of Healing and Forgiveness.

[00:11:05] The book has just come out.

[00:11:06] You should be able to find it in your local bookstore.

[00:11:08] About 300 pages.

[00:11:09] Incredible story.

[00:11:11] And Carrie, just maybe to illustrate the point, let's talk about whenever you needed medical or dental help.

[00:11:18] Playing soccer, crack open your head.

[00:11:21] Your father, Ralph, announces that if you go to the emergency room, no Christmas presents,

[00:11:25] so you have to endure getting stitched up in the most gross way you can imagine.

[00:11:31] You had a tooth that started moving out.

[00:11:34] I think you said at one point, 90 degrees.

[00:11:36] Hard to believe I've seen your picture.

[00:11:38] And instead using a, if you will, a popsicle stick to push it back in.

[00:11:43] And that was kind of what was happening in that family.

[00:11:49] And it just illustrates, again, what you had to endure, even as a young child.

[00:11:54] Right, exactly.

[00:11:55] And that time when he stitched up the back of my head, it was around Christmas time.

[00:12:01] And I had been playing soccer in the basement because we had a house at that point, which we didn't live in for very much longer after that.

[00:12:08] But, and then I hit the back of the head.

[00:12:12] And, yeah, it was, okay, do you want, because we didn't have health insurance.

[00:12:16] And so he said, do you, would you like your siblings to not get Christmas presents or by going to the ER and having to pay for it?

[00:12:26] Or I just do it myself here with your mom's needle and thread.

[00:12:31] And so I said, well, that's kind of having my seven siblings hate me for forever for stealing Christmas and being the Grinch.

[00:12:39] That's an easy choice.

[00:12:41] So I let him do that.

[00:12:42] And I still have the scar on the back of my head.

[00:12:45] But thankfully it ended up being a success because it wasn't, you know, thankfully that deep.

[00:12:52] But it certainly was painful.

[00:12:56] And, again, I'm not here to knock poverty in terms of, like, having any disrespect for people who are poor.

[00:13:05] Or I just did a mission trip last year with my church down to Lima, Peru.

[00:13:11] And we visited some of the poorest neighborhoods in Catabayo up in the mountains.

[00:13:16] And we walked into one of the homes.

[00:13:19] And I would just transport it back to the shed when I was 17 in the Ozarks in Missouri.

[00:13:25] And the smell and the dankness and the lack of plumbing properly, and it was like a time machine.

[00:13:34] It was actually, I felt actually very connected with the people of Peru having gone through those similar struggles, living in some ways a first world childhood.

[00:13:44] I'm sorry, a third world childhood in a first world country as an American.

[00:13:49] And I, again, it's not about poverty, although that was part of the story.

[00:13:55] But it was a self-selected poverty that it was something that my dad chose because he thought that that was God's will.

[00:14:01] And what I find interesting is that as I was going out of my, I call it my walk in darkness, my about 12 years as an agnostic,

[00:14:12] this idea of prosperity gospel in Protestantism that I think that's in the opposite direction.

[00:14:19] And they're both toxic to the extremes to say God wants you to suffer and be poor because it makes you more righteous.

[00:14:28] And, in fact, it created a sense of superiority complex, I think, for my dad that I'm better than you because I suffer more than you.

[00:14:36] And then flipping it on the other side, I think it's just as toxic to say I'm better than you because I have more money than you and God wants me to be rich.

[00:14:45] And so I think having that healthy balance that money is a gift from God, it's not garbage, and it's also not a God.

[00:14:53] There's three G's.

[00:14:54] That something is a gift from God.

[00:14:56] It's not garbage.

[00:14:57] But it's also not meant to be your God either.

[00:15:00] Yes.

[00:15:00] And, again, you know, the Bible actually says that it's the love of money that's the root of all evil, not money itself.

[00:15:06] And if you think about in the Old Testament, you have some very wealthy individuals.

[00:15:11] You can think about Abraham and Solomon and David.

[00:15:15] You can think about the lives of some of the prophets.

[00:15:18] Matter of fact, at the same time, you have everybody from Ezekiel, Jeremiah, and Daniel living at the same time.

[00:15:23] And Daniel lived in the palace.

[00:15:24] And Ezekiel lived to something that might be considered more middle class.

[00:15:29] And Jeremiah lived in abject poverty.

[00:15:30] And did God use each one of them?

[00:15:32] Of course he did.

[00:15:33] So it's your attitude there as well.

[00:15:35] One of the surprises is where you actually hung out with some of the African Americans as a girl that would be tied into the Mormon church and, of course, surrounded by a lot of white people.

[00:15:48] You actually talk about being what they call a Uyghur or you're basically dressing up like Eminem.

[00:15:54] And that was kind of an interesting part of actually connecting up with inner city black and white.

[00:16:02] Right.

[00:16:02] Exactly.

[00:16:03] So I have a chapter of my experience.

[00:16:05] And this experience actually forever solidified my support for school choice.

[00:16:10] Right.

[00:16:11] So two of my 17 public schools were in Kansas City Public School District, which has the dishonor of being the first public school district in America to lose its accreditation.

[00:16:23] It's that bad.

[00:16:25] And the level of violence and chaos and just a toxic learning environment walking in that first day.

[00:16:34] So I attended the schools when I was in sixth grade and then a different school in the same district in eighth grade.

[00:16:39] But when you go in, you have to go through metal detectors every morning.

[00:16:44] And sometimes you have to wait in the cold for long periods.

[00:16:48] And then once you get inside, you're not allowed to go to the classroom.

[00:16:51] You have to go to a holding pen, which is the gymnasium and wait until the entire school is done.

[00:16:56] And then you are dismissed.

[00:16:58] But the whole experience, it feels like you're going to juvenile detention.

[00:17:03] And it creates, I think, for a lot of kids, the sense that, you know, that's what you're bound for.

[00:17:10] That you're going to be forever treated like a criminal because you at your core, you are a criminal.

[00:17:15] And we had drugs and bomb scares.

[00:17:19] And you couldn't wear red shirts with red pants or a blue shirt with blue pants because those were gang colors.

[00:17:27] And I faced some bullying for being white and some of my black friends were bullied for being friends with a white girl.

[00:17:35] I think aside from the racial dynamics, the worst part is, like I said, the curriculum was so bad that I remember in sixth grade doing things that it seemed to me like I had done it in maybe first or second or third grade.

[00:17:50] And the idea that children should be trapped in these schools, especially children who are from maybe a vulnerable family or, you know, predominantly black or Latino, the poverty rates are higher.

[00:18:03] You're going to keep them trapped in these toxic environments where it seems like it's a juvenile detention facility.

[00:18:09] That's why we have the cycle perpetuating of hopelessness and violence is because in many cases these families are trapped.

[00:18:17] And so it's just to me, it shouldn't even be a political question.

[00:18:22] It's what's right and wrong.

[00:18:24] Well, again, I think you've articulated some of that in some of the messages you've had.

[00:18:28] Of course, I remember you speaking out on all sorts of other political issues, and that is the case.

[00:18:34] But just before I take a break, let's talk about your escape because you knew that your desire to leave for college would not set well with your father, Ralph.

[00:18:44] But nevertheless, that was an opportunity.

[00:18:47] And then, of course, you had to figure out how to pay for it.

[00:18:50] Can you maybe give us a brief overview, and then we'll talk about some of that after the break?

[00:18:54] Sure.

[00:18:55] So one of the main catalysts for me leaving was that one of my schizophrenic brothers tried to rape me, and he groped me, and he attacked me.

[00:19:04] And thankfully, I was able to fend him off.

[00:19:07] But I was 17, and at that point I said, wow, I am not safe.

[00:19:14] And when it's your own family and your own home, it kind of crystallizes when something like that happens where it's like, wow, I'm actually not safe in my own home.

[00:19:25] And so that became kind of the catalyst for an exploration of grappling with the question, is my father a prophet?

[00:19:32] And that was the first kind of investigative journalism project that I undertook.

[00:19:37] Well, we're going to take a break, and when we come back, we'll not only talk about, if you will, the escape to first college, but then eventually the Mormon exodus, which is another significant story there as well.

[00:19:49] And then we'll continue on through some of the other material that's in this book, and eventually you're going to hear an incredible testimony as well about how, in some respects, she came to Christianity or come back to an idea of Protestant Christianity due to everything from Donald Trump to science.

[00:20:07] We'll explain what that means in just a minute.

[00:20:09] It's all part of this book, Motor Home Prophecies, A Journey of Healing and Forgiveness.

[00:20:15] If you would like to know more about it, I suspect you'll be able to find it in your local bookstore.

[00:20:19] It just came out two days ago, but you should be able to find it.

[00:20:22] And again, we also have a link to it on our website at pointofview.net.

[00:20:27] And you also might click on the picture there, because that will take you to kerrysheffield.com, and you'll find out all sorts of information about her, and also some of the accolades she's received, and even some of the endorsements for the book.

[00:20:41] So it is all available at our website at pointofview.net.

[00:20:45] And an incredible story of, so far we have the problem, but we're going to get to in the next half hour, the healing, and even a willingness to forgive those who certainly were wronging her in ways that we would all certainly give her a pass, if you will, on maybe not wanting to forgive, but did so as that as well.

[00:21:06] So we'll talk about this college experience, the Mormon exodus, going to graduate school, and working in the media.

[00:21:14] All that coming up right after this.

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[00:23:02] And now, here again, is Kirby Anderson.

[00:23:06] Continue our conversation today with Carrie Sheffield.

[00:23:08] The book is entitled Motorhome Prophecies, A Journey of Healing and Forgiveness.

[00:23:14] 300 pages also has some great pictures and an incredible story.

[00:23:18] And Carrie, just before I get on to some other aspects, I thought since we did talk about being in college,

[00:23:24] and at this time it was, of course, at a different university than you graduated from, Truma State,

[00:23:30] but it's a place where there was Greek life and fraternity guy kisses you,

[00:23:35] and all of a sudden you realized, as you said, I crossed the Rubicon, never going back to VL status,

[00:23:42] which would be, VL stands for Virgin Lip Status.

[00:23:45] And a lot of this, I think, illustrates, again, coming from a time where you're just scared of men, boys,

[00:23:51] and already had an experience, as you mentioned just a minute ago from your brother.

[00:23:55] And in some respects, that went a different direction.

[00:23:58] It was, again, just a real beginning of wanting to jettison some of the things that have been part of your past.

[00:24:06] Yeah, and, you know, I really wrote the book as a letter to my younger self

[00:24:11] and really with an aim to speaking to this rising generation, Gen Z, that's currently in college and high school.

[00:24:19] You know, I'm 41 years old now, so I think of it as like I'm like their big sister or their aunt or something.

[00:24:25] And I just, you know, throughout the book I talk about our modern society

[00:24:32] and how I think so much of what's happening in our culture with sexuality and the dating culture

[00:24:39] and just the hookup culture and the way technology makes people disposable.

[00:24:45] It's really unfortunate that we've allowed this to happen.

[00:24:49] And, you know, it started largely culturally in American history.

[00:24:53] It started in the 1960s.

[00:24:55] And I talk in Truman State how I felt I was very sheltered coming into this state college

[00:25:03] and just really feeling overwhelmed.

[00:25:06] I felt like, you know, I just was – I had more in common with the international students

[00:25:12] than my fellow American students.

[00:25:15] And just the hookup culture and binge drinking and just the way that people were there to party

[00:25:24] and not study, it seemed so strange to me.

[00:25:28] I mean, especially because I really didn't have a safety net.

[00:25:31] I didn't have a fallback, so I had to really be vigilant.

[00:25:34] I worked at Taco Bell.

[00:25:35] I worked at the student newspaper.

[00:25:37] I think there are so many things that young people today who – you know, it's interesting,

[00:25:43] like from a wealth standpoint, a lot of younger people coming out of the pandemic

[00:25:47] are actually wealthier than when they came in.

[00:25:50] So it's not a question of material needs.

[00:25:54] I think it's really a spiritual and a cultural crisis.

[00:25:57] And so the fact that you have the highest suicide rate now compared to 1941 coming out of the Great Depression

[00:26:06] and the most recent data we have from 2022 is from 2022 on suicide,

[00:26:12] you had almost 50,000 people commit suicide.

[00:26:15] That's a whole football stadium full of people,

[00:26:17] and that's the highest number of people ever in American history.

[00:26:20] And the highest depression rates, especially among young people,

[00:26:25] was looking at Gen Z.

[00:26:26] The suicide rate for Gen Z women is almost double the suicide rate when Gen X women were the same age.

[00:26:36] So there's a big crisis.

[00:26:38] And so my book's quite detailed about the mental struggles I dealt with,

[00:26:43] but I think a lot of them are stemming from our toxic culture that's been fueling this mental health crisis.

[00:26:48] Yes, completely agree.

[00:26:50] Let's say, Ken, most people know you as, of course, a columnist.

[00:26:54] Of course, you have a journalism background in broadcasting.

[00:26:56] Let's talk about that because at a time when, in some respects, you're leaving Mormonism,

[00:27:01] you're also embracing this idea of journalism.

[00:27:04] And I did mention in the introduction that you actually worked with legendary newspaper journalist Robert Novak,

[00:27:10] who years and years ago we used to interview when he was alive

[00:27:13] and then had an opportunity to really pursue this idea of journalism.

[00:27:18] Give us a little bit of that background because that's what we know you for now.

[00:27:23] Right.

[00:27:24] And that's really how I was able to lift myself out of the abusive environment and to support myself.

[00:27:32] Since I didn't have family support, I haven't spent a night under my parents' roof since I was 18.

[00:27:37] And I really, you know, when I told my dad when I was 18 I wanted to go away for college,

[00:27:44] I was the first out of eight kids, but I'm fifth on the birth order.

[00:27:49] So I had four older brothers who were still at home and participating in his prophetic mission, as he calls it.

[00:27:57] And so it's a lot easier to isolate the first one.

[00:28:01] And so what he said to me, he raised his hand like he was making an oath to the sky,

[00:28:05] and he said, I prophesy in the name of Jesus you'll be raped and murdered if you leave.

[00:28:10] And so I actually took that as fuel to myself to prove him wrong.

[00:28:16] And it ended up being for good and for bad in the sense that I took a lot of resentment and hostility and fear of what he had,

[00:28:26] you know, his false cross to see to say, you know what, I'm going to prove him wrong.

[00:28:30] I'm going to work really hard.

[00:28:32] I had five journalism internships before I graduated and got ended up getting a full tuition scholarship to Harvard for journalism.

[00:28:43] But in the end, resentment and anger towards someone is not a healthy motivation,

[00:28:50] and it ended up just building a lot of health problems for me later on.

[00:28:54] Well, let's talk about that because you are yourself talking about, of course,

[00:28:59] suicidal tendencies among your siblings, if you will, but you faced some of those as well.

[00:29:06] And, of course, as I think we have already meant to mention but probably didn't talk about too much,

[00:29:11] you worked in the corporate world as well and evaluated various kinds of investments and those kinds of things.

[00:29:18] But, again, you were pursuing success, whether it is going to Harvard or whether it's going to Wall Street

[00:29:25] or whether it's doing things in the media.

[00:29:28] But, as you point out, if you don't deal with this issue of anger and forgiveness,

[00:29:33] it can eat you from the inside out, can't it?

[00:29:36] Absolutely.

[00:29:37] Absolutely.

[00:29:37] And so what I found was that I was doing all these things to check the right boxes

[00:29:42] and to look prestigious and feel good about myself through my financial accomplishments

[00:29:49] or my educational accomplishments and working at Goldman Sachs,

[00:29:54] which is the most prestigious investment bank, or at least it has been historically,

[00:29:59] in thinking that I had everything figured out.

[00:30:02] But I clearly didn't because I harbored a lot of anger and resentment toward my dad

[00:30:07] and towards just my family of origin.

[00:30:11] And it ended up eventually just really – there's a really great book called

[00:30:18] The Body Keeps the Score that helps explain what happened to me,

[00:30:22] which is that trauma will trap itself in your body unless you resolve it.

[00:30:28] And so by the time in 2019, it all just kind of collapsed.

[00:30:33] And I woke up and I felt like I had a taser implanted in the back of my neck.

[00:30:39] It was for 2019.

[00:30:41] And I ended up being in and out of the hospital seven times over the next several months,

[00:30:47] maybe four or five months.

[00:30:49] And it was all just – eventually they were doing all these tests and they said,

[00:30:56] oh, there's nothing wrong here structurally.

[00:30:58] The MRIs and the CT scans and the x-rays, it really just came down to the exhaustion

[00:31:04] and the stress that was causing this feeling of the taser just pulsating in the base of my skull,

[00:31:10] like all throughout my head and my vision was blurred.

[00:31:15] And there's a really great doctor named Dr. John Sarno that I recommend if people are dealing with these types of things

[00:31:21] where you can't figure out what's going on from an x-ray standpoint or MRIs.

[00:31:26] Dr. John Sarno talks – I mean, his healing books – unfortunately he passed away,

[00:31:32] but he was trained as a doctor in the 50s before I think in the 60s they kind of divorced the holistic view of healing,

[00:31:43] kind of divorcing this idea of the mind and the body needs to work together.

[00:31:48] And instead now we just pump you full of drugs instead of integrating what's happening with your psychology

[00:31:54] and how that trauma will manifest itself unless you forgive.

[00:32:00] Well, we need to take a break. When we come back we'll talk about, of course, your conversion.

[00:32:04] But one of the people you quote is somebody we've had on the program many times, Arthur Brooks,

[00:32:08] and he wrote a piece about how to stop dating people who are wrong for you

[00:32:12] because another part of that is that as you were also dealing with these emotional issues,

[00:32:18] you also had kind of a toxic dating pattern that you talk about as well.

[00:32:22] But let's come back after the break and talk about how after kind of rejecting Mormonism

[00:32:28] and rejecting kind of the materialism you were in, how you came to faith,

[00:32:33] because that is a wonderful story at the end of the book.

[00:32:36] And if you've just joined us, we're talking about, again, Motorhome Prophecies,

[00:32:41] a journey of healing and forgiveness.

[00:32:43] Carrie Sheffield with us.

[00:32:44] We have information about the book on our website, pointofview.net.

[00:32:48] We have a link to hers as well.

[00:32:50] And just an incredible story of growing up with a street musician father

[00:32:55] who thought he was a modern-day prophet, thought he was going to be the President of the United States.

[00:33:00] And not only just the poverty, but just all sorts of very toxic situations

[00:33:05] and some of the toxic theological ideas being presented and the rest.

[00:33:11] But then just an incredible story, not only of healing,

[00:33:14] but, of course, as we've already implied, forgiveness.

[00:33:17] But we'll come back and talk about that in a little more detail.

[00:33:19] If you find yourself wanting to know more about Carrie Sheffield,

[00:33:22] maybe you'd like to contact her and have her come and speak about this book.

[00:33:26] Or if you would like to get a copy of the book,

[00:33:28] we have the information at our website at pointofview.net.

[00:33:31] We'll be right back.

[00:33:45] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:33:50] Back for a few more minutes, talking with Carrie Sheffield.

[00:33:53] Motorhome Prophecies, A Journey of Healing and Forgiveness.

[00:33:56] Certainly want to talk about your conversion to Christianity.

[00:33:59] And you say that two of the most powerful forces were Donald Trump and science.

[00:34:05] And, of course, people laugh when you say that.

[00:34:07] And don't get the wrong idea.

[00:34:08] You were a never-Trumper.

[00:34:10] And even in the 2016 election, you actually wrote in Senator Ben Sasse,

[00:34:16] of course an individual we've had on this program,

[00:34:18] a senator from Nebraska, now, of course, president of the University of Florida.

[00:34:21] And yet you began to go to a church by Tim Keller who's been on the program.

[00:34:25] And the science part really goes back to another friend who's been in studio with us many times,

[00:34:30] Michael Gillen and his wife, who was an atheist when he entered Cornell but became a Christian.

[00:34:35] So share that spiritual pilgrimage because it is a fascinating chapter in your book.

[00:34:42] Well, that's wonderful to hear that you've had Dr. Gillen on your program.

[00:34:48] He's fantastic.

[00:34:49] And, yeah, his work is just so needed.

[00:34:54] But, yeah, so on the Donald Trump front, as you mentioned, Tim Keller,

[00:35:02] Tim Keller has a fantastic book called Counterfeit God.

[00:35:06] And each chapter in that book is a false god that we as humans naturally tend to worship,

[00:35:12] whether it's money, power, sex, family, you name it.

[00:35:18] And generally we worship it because it's good, that it's a gift from God.

[00:35:25] And it's natural to worship, you know, it's a tendency quite often to worship the gift instead of the giver,

[00:35:35] especially if we're caught in complacency or, in my case,

[00:35:38] if you are at a place of possibility towards the idea of God that you want something to fill that void.

[00:35:44] And so I tried a lot of those chapters, but they kept failing me.

[00:35:49] And I tried my career, and then, unfortunately, some new management came in,

[00:35:56] and they laid off a bunch of people from the old management, including myself,

[00:35:59] and I was devastated.

[00:36:00] I felt suicidal because I didn't have God.

[00:36:03] I didn't have my family.

[00:36:04] It was my soul purpose.

[00:36:07] It was my religion was my career.

[00:36:09] And then my God rejected me by laying me off.

[00:36:14] And fortunately, I got out of that place.

[00:36:16] I even had a suicide fantasy of how I was going to do it.

[00:36:19] But thank God I got out of there.

[00:36:23] But I also tried the God of dating and marriage and relationships,

[00:36:26] and that failed just from dating.

[00:36:29] As you mentioned earlier, you know, I was perpetuating the pattern,

[00:36:34] as quite often abused people do, they then date abusive people.

[00:36:40] And, unfortunately, a lot of times they were hiding it more than my dad would hide it.

[00:36:47] My dad's more extroverted and externally controlling.

[00:36:51] And, unfortunately, these patterns were more, you know, hidden substance abuse,

[00:36:56] whether it's drug abuse or alcohol abuse or hidden cheating,

[00:37:01] just really toxic behaviors and passive-aggressive control and anger

[00:37:07] and just really toxic behavior that I accepted because it was what was normal to me.

[00:37:13] And then I realized, you know, that's a false God, too.

[00:37:17] You know, dating and marriage is a gift from God, but we shouldn't worship it.

[00:37:22] But I was allowing these negative people in my life to become false idols to me.

[00:37:27] And I allowed them to hurt me and tell me I wasn't good enough,

[00:37:32] and that I needed to change myself to fit what they wanted, and they were controlling.

[00:37:37] And, you know, eventually I just got engaged, and I broke off that relationship

[00:37:44] and felt suicidal again, you know.

[00:37:46] And it's just the pattern of one false idol to the neck always trying to fill that void.

[00:37:51] And so, finally, to the point on politics and Donald Trump,

[00:37:55] I thought I had found a God that would not fail me, and that was the God of politics.

[00:37:59] Well, obviously, we can laugh now.

[00:38:02] That's just hilarious.

[00:38:05] But I went to the Harvard Kennedy School, and I know you went to Yale, so I'll forgive you.

[00:38:10] But...

[00:38:11] I also went to Georgetown, which was my alternative to Harvard School as well in government.

[00:38:17] Yeah.

[00:38:18] Yeah, so I went to the Harvard Kennedy School, which is named after JFK.

[00:38:23] Right.

[00:38:23] And I think in some ways I had put him as a Messiah-type figure,

[00:38:28] in the same way that Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated for his people.

[00:38:34] Abraham Lincoln was a Messiah figure who was shot on Good Friday, I recently learned.

[00:38:39] And that became my religion, was this idea of public service and self-sacrifice and what

[00:38:45] JFK said, that you should not ask what your country can do for you, but ask what you can

[00:38:50] do for your country.

[00:38:51] And so that's where I was, and I was being successful in my media career in fighting for

[00:38:57] the conservative ideas that I believed in.

[00:39:00] And then Donald Trump happened, and I said, wow, I am not worshiping that guy.

[00:39:09] I, as you said, I'm a recovered never-Trumper.

[00:39:12] I did, I don't want to get political, but eventually I ended up voting for him later in 2020, I think

[00:39:18] in part because I had a proper order of my worldview, which is God first, then people, and then things.

[00:39:26] I was living my life in a disordered way, which was, I was putting people first and then things,

[00:39:31] and I was indifferent to the idea of God.

[00:39:34] And the, but at the time when I was worshiping politics, I could not compute, I could not worship

[00:39:43] him.

[00:39:43] I couldn't, I couldn't stand the things he had said about women.

[00:39:47] I couldn't stand that he had donated to Hillary Clinton and didn't have a conservative track

[00:39:52] record.

[00:39:52] And so I ended up just, like you said, writing in a protest candidate in 2016.

[00:39:58] But that process where I was basically sidelined myself from working on the campaign or volunteering

[00:40:06] or being a surrogate or anything like that, it left a void.

[00:40:10] And that was the openness where I started to attend church and to study, really take Christianity

[00:40:17] seriously.

[00:40:18] And that's when I got into studying about science and studying about metaphysics and studying

[00:40:25] about how it actually takes a lot more faith to believe.

[00:40:30] I heard it, I heard it put pretty well.

[00:40:32] It takes more faith to believe in a virgin universe than a virgin birth.

[00:40:39] And that's essentially if you're atheist and you simply believe in random chance, you're

[00:40:43] believing in a virgin universe.

[00:40:45] And again, we're almost out of time.

[00:40:47] I just wanted to kind of land by the fact that you became a Christian and you forgave your

[00:40:52] father.

[00:40:52] And in some respects, that is really how the end of your chapters in the book.

[00:40:58] But it seems to me you might share with us what you see the future looking like.

[00:41:02] Right.

[00:41:02] Well, you know, my hope with this book and it just came out, as you mentioned, on Tuesday,

[00:41:08] my hope and my prayer with this book is that I'll be able to connect and reach as many young

[00:41:16] people because there is this mental health crisis among young people right now.

[00:41:20] I think from a Judeo-Christian standpoint, there's a lot of rejection of that heritage.

[00:41:26] I was in that place very angry and rejected that heritage because I had been abused by

[00:41:32] a denomination within that heritage.

[00:41:34] And I was confusing God with religion.

[00:41:37] And so my hope is that and I've already lined up, you know, spoke at Palm Beach Atlantic University.

[00:41:43] That click went viral.

[00:41:45] I already got 1.2 million views on Twitter.

[00:41:47] I'm speaking at Yale University, Harvard University.

[00:41:50] I'm speaking at Liberty University, speaking to some K-12.

[00:41:57] And the book is really high school and college, just high school and above.

[00:42:01] Some educators in the Christian school system with the Herzog Foundation, which is a nationwide

[00:42:07] network of K-12 Christian schools.

[00:42:09] And I'd love to speak at your school, Dallas Theological Seminary.

[00:42:13] But it's just been great.

[00:42:15] I spoke to the Pepperdine University student newspaper.

[00:42:18] And I think that a lot of young people, they want something that they want a story that

[00:42:24] they can relate to.

[00:42:26] Yes.

[00:42:27] Great story.

[00:42:28] Carrie Sheffield has been with us and the book is entitled Motorhome Prophecies.

[00:42:32] I do want to mention that one more time and also mention that we have a link to CarrieSheffield.com

[00:42:37] because as she said, this would be something that could be a real encouragement to you.

[00:42:42] And I would certainly encourage you to pass it on to young people that are struggling,

[00:42:46] trying to find meaning in their life.

[00:42:48] Incredible story and journey of healing and forgiveness.

[00:42:51] And you've been listening to Point of View.

[00:42:57] In 19th century London, two towering historical figures did battle, not with guns and bombs,

[00:43:04] but words and ideas.

[00:43:07] London was home to Karl Marx, the father of communism, and legendary Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon.

[00:43:15] London was in many ways the center of the world, economically, militarily, and intellectually.

[00:43:21] Marx sought to destroy religion, the family, and everything the Bible supports.

[00:43:27] Spurgeon stood against him, warning of socialism's dangers.

[00:43:31] Spurgeon understood Christianity is not just religious truth.

[00:43:35] It is truth for all of life.

[00:43:38] Where do you find men with that kind of wisdom to stand against darkness today?

[00:43:42] Get the light you need on today's most pressing issues delivered to your inbox

[00:43:48] when you sign up for the Viewpoints commentary at pointofview.net slash signup.

[00:43:54] Every weekday, in less than two minutes, you'll learn how to be a person of light

[00:43:59] to stand against darkness in our time.

[00:44:02] It's free, so visit pointofview.net slash signup right now.

[00:44:08] pointofview.net slash signup.

[00:44:11] Point of View is produced by Point of View Ministries.