Point of View October 3, 2024 – Hour 1 : Millennial Round Table

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Across America, live, this is Point of View. And now your host for the Millennial Round Table, Chelsea Yeoman.

[00:00:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, happy Thursday and welcome to the Millennial Round Table where I have a full show for you today after a full week of news, frankly, worldwide news, national news, political news.

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_00]: We have so much to dive into today. And of course, we're going to do that with expert guests as always on our Millennial Round Table.

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll start by introducing Pastor Josh Barnes. We're going to lean on you heavily today, Josh. I'm so grateful you're with us today.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm grateful to be here and looking forward to it.

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I am as well. We also have joining our round table this first hour, Patrina Mosley. You know her as a speaker, author, and a political consultant.

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_00]: She's been in D.C. a very long time. And we're so grateful to have her with us to unpack the world news today.

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Patrina, for joining us.

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, happy to be here.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And joining us the second hour will be Richard Lim and Liberty McCarter.

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_00]: You know them well as they've been on our show for really a few years now on the Millennial Round Table.

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_00]: But let's dive right in, guys. We have so much to unpack.

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to start this first hour talking about Iran launching of 180 ballistic missiles at Israel.

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you guys saw the map on that, but the map of where the missiles were targeting had the dome, Iron Dome, not been in place.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And David Sling as a defensive weapon not been in place.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, nearly all of Israel would have been hit and targeted on that map.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And then we're going to move on to talk a little bit, not just about the geopolitical world that we find ourselves in this week and how we got there from a history of years and years of appeasement by presidential administrations on the U.S. side of things that now need to turn into, I would think, a stronger sense of determent, which we're hearing out of Israel, although not the current Biden administration.

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about those political dynamics, of course, but we also want to talk about this through the lens of the Bible.

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_00]: The Bible is, after all, where we look when our world is chaotic.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_00]: We look to Christ.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_00]: We look to the Bible, the hope that we have in it.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_00]: But specifically, I want us to turn a little bit into some prophecies in the Bible that describe a war between Israel and regions that, when Ezekiel made his prophecy through Ezekiel 38 and 39, discussed the region of the Middle East up to Russia.

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's very relevant for where we're at today.

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, Josh, we're going to look to you to help with that.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_00]: But let's start diving right in on what happened the day of our vice presidential debate.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So really early this week, where we had Iran, for a second time this year, launch a massive missile strike against Israel.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_00]: The first, of course, was in April, although it was a much smaller strike.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So the significance of this strike is, one, it's the largest missile strike against any country in history, I heard.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And it also is a real act of aggression and warfare directly from Iran.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And usually we have seen Iran use its proxies in Hezbollah, which it has funded and set up, really taken over and hijacked Lebanon to the northern border of Israel and done Iran's bidding through that proxy effort, a little bit of distance there.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_00]: But this was after the Hezbollah leader was killed by Israel.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Israel also hit all major leadership and heads of Hezbollah last week as well.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_00]: After that attack on its proxy, Iran formally attacked Israel this week, which we all know.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So let's start there.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Petrina, I'm going to start with you on this.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd love just to hear your initial reaction and any analysis that you have.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_00]: You've been in D.C. a long time.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_00]: We've all seen several administrations handle Iran and our alliance with Israel differently, an ebb and a flow certainly from administration to administration over the years.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'd love to just get your initial take on what happened this week.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, when it comes to Israel and their warfare with their enemies that surround them, the plain and simple truth is that there are good guys and that there's bad guys.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_05]: And in our case, as United States of America, we have the same bad guys.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's so perplexing to see the media and ignorant college students who continue to protest for Palestinian rights, to protest for Hamas freedom, chanting from the river to the sea, which is a euphemism for eradicating the Jews from their homeland.

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_05]: So when it comes to Iran, funding Hezbollah, Hamas, other terrorist organizations, we have the same enemies.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_05]: We've had them have terror cells here in the United States, sleeper cells that wake up for certain attacks and certain things that we'll never really know about.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I'm not trying to make a direct speculation on Las Vegas, but I mean, the mass shooting and just erratic behavior from law enforcement that happened in Las Vegas a few months ago, we never got any answers on that.

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_05]: And other things that happen in our country that we just never seem to get an answer from from the media, like what actually happened.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_05]: The point is, terrorist things happen every day, even here.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_05]: And when we do get answers, they are usually tied to either China or to our enemies in the Middle East funded by Iran.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_05]: So that's just my high arching overview of the matter is that we need to be very, very clear of who the good guys are, who the bad guys are.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_05]: And we legally have a allyship with Israel.

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_05]: So we need to act like we're allies and not act like we're enemies.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_00]: That's an interesting point.

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I always say when we're talking about international relations on this show, which is a passion of mine.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I follow it closely.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Half majored in it, if that is going to give me any credence, which I hope it doesn't.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_00]: But is that we have to look through some of these wars and regional conflicts, cultural conflicts, religious conflicts in the Middle East,

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_00]: not through our American westernized lens, but through a cultural understanding of the dynamics there.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, Josh, when we're looking at this, it's what Petrina is alluding to, which we're not just talking about, you know,

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_00]: a territorial conflict, which is essentially, you know, Ukraine and Russia, where Russia believes Ukraine belongs to them as part of Mother Russia.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_00]: But we're also looking at it as a religious viewpoint on behalf of the Muslim world that wants to have their what they view as their holy site in Jerusalem,

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_00]: the Dome of the Rock, which is on top of Israel's holy site, you know, the temple from the Old Testament, the temple ruins.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they're fighting over this area.

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Both lay claim to it.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Both, you know, the Muslims would say that Abraham sacrificed Ishmael there, which is why it's significant to them.

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, the Bible says that Abraham would have sacrificed Isaac had not the Lord intervened.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_00]: It's where Christ was ultimately sacrificed.

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, this has significant religious implications for them in the region, as well as deep-rooted conflicts for centuries.

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Right, Josh?

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, definitely.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_04]: This is certainly a religious war.

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_04]: It's not so much territorial.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a race war and it's a religious war.

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_04]: These people don't want Israel to have a state and they certainly don't want them to have that land because that is a land that's very significant to both religions.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Of course, it was far more significant for Israel for far longer in history than it was for Iran.

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_04]: And so it's interesting how we have liberals in our country who are upset about colonizers, but they're fighting with Iran and Syria and Yemen, you know, who are really trying to colonize the land that was for a very long time.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Israel's long before any of them.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_04]: But, yeah, you're right.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot more to this than just grabbing land.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's why they want the land and why they want Israel out of the land.

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And our foreign policy needs to reflect that.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk more on our foreign policy strategy right when we get back after this break.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_03]: This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Free speech is very important, but many Americans believe that violence may be necessary to stop candidates or citizens with the wrong views about free speech.

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_01]: On my radio program, I frequently quote Jonathan Turley, professor of law at George Washington University.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Although he is a liberal who would disagree with my perspective on many social issues, I quote him because of his dedication to free speech.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I recommend his new book, The Indispensable Right, Free Speech in an Age of Rage.

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_01]: He provides the history of free speech and makes an excellent case for free speech.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_01]: However, he laments that for some people, violent language can become violent action.

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_01]: He explains we are living in an age of rage.

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_01]: It permeates every aspect of our society and politics.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Rage is liberating, even addictive.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_01]: It allows us to say and do things that we would ordinarily avoid, even denounce in others.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, one chilling illustration of this I found in an article by Bob Unruh.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_01]: He cites polling research that uncovered the disturbing fact that 26 million Americans believe the use of force is justified to prevent Trump from becoming president.

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_01]: The study on political violence and the election assessing the threat from left and right also concluded that these 26 million are active, dangerous and have growth potential.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_01]: On the other side, the study also found another 18 million say that the use of force is justified to restore Trump to the presidency.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Jonathan Turley recently cited the number of politicians working with extreme groups and concluded that they were playing a dangerous game toying with groups that call for violence.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I agree with his conclusion that this recent poll is a chilling account of the growing radicalism in America.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_03]: For a free copy of Kirby's booklet, A Biblical View on Critical Race Theory, go to viewpoints.info.crt.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_03]: You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to the Millennial Roundtable, where we are discussing the greatest conflict between Iran and Israel in 50 years.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, the missiles that were launched from Iran this week.

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Luckily, only out of all of the missiles that went, the dome protected Israel, and I believe there was only one fatality, although several were injured from shrapnel, which is a miracle in and of itself.

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_00]: We know that God has such protections in place for his people, for Israel, and is protecting them as we speak in this war, which is escalating quickly in front of our very eyes.

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think it's important as we discuss this, we mentioned, to understand the background and dynamics because our own foreign policy,

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_00]: we've now had over a decade of appeasement, essentially, as a foreign policy under both the Obama administration, which signed the nuclear deal with Iran to allow them to enrich uranium,

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_00]: so long as their dear friend Russia was willing to be the ones enriching it for them.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's turned out great.

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: But now, after years and over a decade of appeasement, we're seeing the result of that as our foreign policy, which is really bifurcated from understanding the core conflict and core goals of Iran.

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And the threat, the viable threat that it is to the very existence of Israel, that it's not a cute saying or a slogan or a march for them to say that they want to see Israel eradicated,

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_00]: that that's actually the truth and that there's part of the Koran that the current leaders of Iran have admitted their following that say you have to use your strongest arms and weaponry against the infidels.

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And so this is something that's deeply held religious views.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And as we've treated it like appeasement, one example would be President Obama sent $1.5 billion in a cash payment as part of an agreement and accord between him and Iran.

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And then the Biden-Harris administration, we know, has loosened up the tariffs in a way that President Trump had previously had in place that freed up another $10 billion for Iran so that they could then expend on weaponry.

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, in my opinion, the most controlled Iran is one that is economically weak.

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And so those are some background statistics I wanted to put out there.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, is it reasonable?

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Josh, I'll start with you.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we've seen Israel now for almost a full year be at battle with its neighbors, Hamas to the south, Hezbollah to the north in Lebanon, now Iran.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they're talking about a response strike.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Biden, of course, said yesterday he wanted it to be a proportional strike.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, this continued appeasement mentality.

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to get your thoughts on that and where you think potentially even predicting, you know, Israel is going to strike back.

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, I think everybody is pretty well aware that Israel is going to strike back.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they've made that pretty clear.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_04]: But whether or not we participate and what that looks like, you know, is, I suppose, still in question.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, on the one hand, I think as Americans, we don't want World War III.

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_04]: We don't.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And we recognize that this situation could definitely turn into that.

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_04]: On the other hand, Israel, our ally, is being attacked viciously and by people who are bigots and really just hate them as a race of people, very anti-Semitic.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_04]: And so it's only reasonable that we should stand behind them, we should support them, we should help them.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_04]: When it comes to the question of boots on the ground, I would not want someone like Joe Biden leading those decisions for our country because I think we all want to keep our people safe and we want to help Israel in any way.

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_04]: That if possible, we would like to help them in ways that don't endanger American lives.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_04]: But I think we should be looking at what needs to happen here, how we can help and get this thing done and over with very quickly.

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Rather than doing all of the fighting ourselves as Americans, we have an ally in the region that's going to do the work.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_04]: We just need to stand behind them and support them, provide them what they need and support their efforts.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's interesting to me that we are willing to spend as many billions and billions of dollars as we've spent propping up Ukraine against Russia.

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_00]: But haven't I mean, we did assist in the defense against the missile attack this week.

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's not that President Biden isn't saying they don't have a right to defend themselves themselves.

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_00]: He's just saying it needs to be proportionate.

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, Petrina, I'd love to get your take on that as well.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_00]: As I was reading today, a few options Israel might be considering.

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_00]: They're very strategic.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to take their time.

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_00]: But one background note is that they do have 80,000 displaced Israelites from that northern region

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_00]: because the Lebanese have have crossed the southern border of a river

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_00]: that they were not supposed to cross under treaty from years and years ago.

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And so because they've taken over that territory, you know, some of the Israeli news sites are saying the prime minister's top priority

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_00]: might be getting these displaced Israelites back into that northern region where they can be safe and home.

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And he'll take care of Iran when he can.

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_00]: One option I saw floated around was the port.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_00]: There's one port that exports 90 percent of Iran's crude oil to the rest of the world.

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Something like that would be a huge economic hit that could be taken.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_00]: But I'd love to get your thoughts, Petrina, on this idea of a measured proportional response versus what Israel is kind of saying.

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_00]: They're becoming impatient and distrusting of their allies for pushing that on them.

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_05]: And they have good reason to.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_05]: And every time a Democrat gets in power, it's the same type of response.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Quote, we believe Israel has the right to defend themselves, comma, but the response should be in proportion.

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like, okay, well, what you're really trying to say is I want to appease both sides because I know my base is radical and crazy and pro-Palestine.

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_05]: But we have a legal binding agreement to protect our allies.

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_05]: And you really can't have it both ways.

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_05]: And it amazes me because the Democrats are masters at getting all their people in line and getting them in uniformity and conformity to whatever message that they want.

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_05]: But on this issue, they can't.

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, Kamala Harris can't even pick the Jewish governor.

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_05]: She wanted to from, what was the state?

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Ohio.

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_05]: No, Pennsylvania.

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_05]: She can't even pick him.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_05]: He was the first pick.

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_05]: But the protesters quickly shut that down, and now we got tampon Tim.

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_05]: So I don't know what it is about this issue that makes them speak out of both sides of their mouths, but Israel has every right to question their confidence in us.

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_05]: But we do have American troops on the ground right now.

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_05]: IDF has reported on their social media accounts of dual coalitions to rescue another hostage victim that was sent back home to her parents in Iran.

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_05]: So this was an Iranian child that they rescued and sent her back home.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Did Iran say thank you?

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_05]: No.

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_05]: And another joint operation that eliminated several terrorists that were of mutual interest to our countries.

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, we're already – we're spread out all over the world.

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_05]: And in some places we need to be.

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_05]: And those places where we need to be is where our allies are.

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_05]: I have yet to hear a sound argument for why we're in Ukraine.

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_05]: And people say, well, we're not in Ukraine.

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Our money is in Ukraine.

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Our weapons are in Ukraine.

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Our spies are in Ukraine.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Our operatives are in Ukraine.

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_05]: And where we need to be is definitely in Israel because of our agreement as allies and the mutual interest.

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_05]: And, of course, as Christians, we believe they have every right and legal right to defend themselves as a country.

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_05]: So what we need is peace through strength.

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_05]: We need a president that's going to lead America into strength.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_05]: And that will give our allies confidence when they face their enemies and especially when they face mutual enemies.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_05]: So, yeah, it's very concerning.

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_00]: It is.

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And part of that strength, Petrina, is holding Iran into account for agreements they've already made.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_00]: For example, the Biden administration has not in four years, they had not gone in and conducted the audit they do every year of what's going on nuclear-wise and the uranium enrichment.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And it wasn't until there was outcry by Congress that they go do that, that the UN was able to get in, was able to assess the situation.

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And they've enriched uranium, they said, up to 60% and 80% what it should have been.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_00]: They could be very, very close.

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_00]: They said there could be enough uranium right now for them to have two nuclear missiles.

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_00]: That's really a dereliction of duty, not just as us as an American ally to Israel, but for world peace.

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And because of not just appeasement, not just continuing to allow them to have more and more billions of dollars in releasing tariffs and sanctions on Iran,

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_00]: but from just a failure to hold them into accountability for what they're doing with their weaponry research.

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_00]: We know they're motivated.

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_00]: We know they have that as a goal and that they're failing to comply with international standards and protocols that have been placed on them for these various reasons.

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think you're right.

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Leadership through strength, it's certainly going to be something that will continue to unfold.

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_00]: When we get back after our break, I want to talk about this through a biblical lens.

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_00]: The Bible throughout beginning to end talks about the risings of nations, of wars, of people groups, of the history of Israel with Babylonians as an example.

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_00]: It is a true, accurate historical document, but also a prophetic one and one that I want to dive into.

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_00]: When we get back after this short break.

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[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_03]: The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And now, here again, Chelsea Yeoman.

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, welcome back to the Millennial Roundtable, where we are turning now from the missile strike against Israel this week to talking about something that I've been studying a lot this year, as many of you probably have as well.

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_00]: That's why we have Josh Barnes here, because we are turning now to end times scripture, prophecy, and how we can interpret maybe some of the world events, maybe not, that are going around us today with the Bible in mind.

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, we also have Petrina Mosley with us this hour.

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And don't forget, you can go to pointofview.net to read our articles and many other resources there if you have an interest in any of these topics or more that Kirby usually covers.

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_00]: You can also go to Facebook and like us at Point of View Radio on Facebook.

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Don't forget to comment there as well.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So we're turning now to really, Josh, what I want to start with is this kind of this discussion of the role of prophecy, because the Bible, after all, a fourth of it is prophecy.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I read that this week even.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_00]: There's significant amount of prophecy over thousands and thousands of years.

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we are living in a time frame where we have the benefit of an entire Bible and scripture with thousands of years of prophecy all at once.

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_00]: But God often revealed to his people, the Israelites, throughout Old Testament scripture and then the church, New Testament prophecy for the church, his will.

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of it revolved around, you know, these current kingdoms and principalities that Daniel is full, for instance, of which kingdom is going to rise and which will fall and replace it.

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Geopolitics have always been a part of scripture and God's plan, which is why it's always a little bit laughable when Christians say that there's no room for Christians in politics, because so much of the Bible is politics.

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, even the fact that the Jews thought that Jesus would come as a Messiah or their Messiah, not Jesus, but that the Messiah would come to rule over all of the kings and kingdoms, the king of kings, lord of lords.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_00]: They thought he was going to be an actual ruler. And so that's one of the reasons for their frustration with Jesus and maybe some disbelief there as well when Jesus didn't, in fact, come to rule over Rome at the time.

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So all that to say, Josh, the role of prophecy and scripture is important.

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_00]: But I often find that church today, you know, kind of gets away from teaching on it.

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we live a lot in the gospel, which is incredible, the New Testament and what the scripture means for our daily lives day in and day out.

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And this might sound like a criticism. I don't mean it as one, but definitely feel free for us to have a good discussion and disagreement here today.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_00]: But sometimes I find, you know, there's a pastor at the Village Church who always says that the American church does a lot of nasal gazing.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_00]: What does the Bible mean for me and my life and how can it bring me peace for today and what I'm going through?

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_00]: But when you look at prophecy and you look at the world and the chaos we're looking in today, and I look at end times and revelations, it kind of forces our sight up to God.

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And the purpose of prophecy was always for repentance.

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Jonah was called to prophesy for the purpose of Israelites for I'm sorry, not Israelites to for there to be repentance.

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Daniel, repentance. When you look at Isaiah, repentance. Isaiah 6 is a great example of that.

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So prophecy, I think, has an important role for us as believers to know God's plan, to know he's in control, and to give us a sense of urgency about making sure we're right with him.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to get your take on that and the focus, how much focus or stock should we be putting in it or not as a Christian church in America today?

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, this is something that I've spent so much time on personally that I've been racking my brain over this, even though this last short break we took,

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_04]: trying to think of how I can say all the things on my mind without hogging the next five hours of radio time.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, my point is that there is a lot to say here.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_04]: You're absolutely right. I think I should start there by saying you're dead on.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_04]: The reason, I think, or at least a big part of the reason that a lot of churches don't study prophecy or study it wrongly when they do is because everything in the Bible has to be about me.

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And so even when they do study prophecy, all they want to do is study how we can see this in our time right now.

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_04]: How is it affecting me, right?

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_04]: And so we try to take every prophecy that hasn't been fulfilled in the past and say it's going to be fulfilled in my lifetime.

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_04]: I just need to watch for the signs for it.

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_04]: And so that's another mistake, I think, that we make.

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_04]: And then a lot of people avoid it because it's just confusing and there's different opinions on it.

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_04]: But you're absolutely right.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_04]: There's 25, about 25 percent of the Bible is prophecy.

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_04]: And the interesting fact about that is that a third to a half somewhere in that neighborhood, so at least 10 percent of the Bible, a third to a half of the prophecy in the Bible, about 10 percent or so, is end times prophecy.

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_04]: That's one in ten verses of the Bible are going to deal with end times prophecy.

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_04]: And yet we try to avoid it because, you know, well, it's unknowable.

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think it is unknowable.

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that the Bible gives us things to study and to understand.

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_04]: And the things that we don't understand, it often tells us, listen, you'll get this later, but it will tell us the things that we can't understand.

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of end times prophecy actually comes with interpretations of the prophecy.

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_04]: For instance, when Daniel saw beasts coming out of the sea, he asked, what does this mean?

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_04]: And he was given the interpretation.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Revelation 17 and 18, some of the hardest passages in the Bible to interpret, actually come with an interpretation.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And so I think what we have to derive from that is that at least for many of the prophecies that were given in the Bible, God wants us to understand at least certain elements of those prophecies.

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_04]: And when we don't, when we ignore them, we're ignoring the thing God wants us to know.

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So well said.

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Petrina, your thoughts?

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I love what you have to say about how much the Bible is political.

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_05]: And yet churches are so skittish because they say they don't want to get political.

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, if the whole word of God pertains to life and godliness, that includes our civic engagement and our civic responsibilities.

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_05]: And it certainly includes the coming kingdom.

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_05]: So what does that mean?

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Political, a political kingdom.

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_05]: God's going to be ruling and reigning as the perfect king and ruler.

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_05]: And then we're going to reign for him for a thousand years.

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_05]: And then you have Satan being let out again to deceive the nations.

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_05]: And then God wins the battle again.

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_05]: So, I mean, we're talking about a real kingdom, a real ruler, which is a.k.a. political.

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_05]: And like you said, you know, there were times where, you know, some kings thought that Jesus may be a threat to their kingdom.

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_05]: And he was in a spiritual sense because now people's allegiance will be to something more than just the state.

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_05]: But ultimately, people's allegiance will be to the kingdom of God, which overcomes every state and will be filled with people from every nation.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_05]: So it's an exciting thing to look to.

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Prophecies should not make us threat, but should make us shift our perspective to the things that are really important.

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_05]: And that being a part of God's great commission.

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Well said.

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's dive right in then.

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_00]: We have an article on pointofview.net about Ezekiel 38 and 39 is the scripture we're going to focus on.

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, we can't read it in a silo.

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_00]: But it is a couple of chapters in Ezekiel that describe a war between Israel.

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And then it names regions that at the time did not even exist when this was prophesied.

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_00]: But we now know to be the regions that history has told us of Iran all the way up to Russia, parts of Turkey.

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It describes civilizations who will attack and invade Israel from the north.

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And when they do so, it's a physical invasion.

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the next two chapters go on to describe that God was in charge of that, that he it says he grabbed these people groups by the jaw and pulled them into Israel.

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And then there is a fierce battle where it would it's so much death will happen that it will take seven months for Israel to cleanse the land.

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_00]: But after that, there is a beautiful plan because he does all of this and allows all of this so that the entire world will know he is God.

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that the hearts of his people, the Jews, will turn back towards him.

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So I wanted to intro that in the last minute or two we have before break.

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead and feel free to take this wherever you want.

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Josh, go ahead and just give us your insight and input.

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_00]: It looks like the beginnings of something similar with what we're seeing now, doesn't it?

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and that's what Ezekiel 38 and 39 and Revelation 20 talk about the battle of Gog and Magog.

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And what I'll do, if you don't mind, I'll give you my conclusion first, and then maybe we can get into it in the next segment.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_04]: But essentially, I don't think this is the battle of Gog and Magog.

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that is incorrect.

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_04]: I think the battle of Gog and Magog is a long time in the future, and I can show why.

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that it is important to recognize, though, that some of the things that are taking place could potentially be setting some foundational building blocks for future prophetic events.

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_04]: So I don't believe this is a prophetic fulfillment specifically.

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting point.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait to hear your analysis after this.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_00]: There is a little bit of debate, of course, among theologians, because we don't know the timing of all of the events in time, or we wouldn't need to turn to Christ.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_00]: But when we look at this, you know, the thoughts being there's really three segmented parts that the battle of Gog and Magog will happen right before tribulation, right in the middle of tribulation, or even at the end.

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And so because it says that Israel will feel secure at the time the battle takes place, that they won't be up in arms, they're not going to have walls of defense, it says, that they're going to be relatively in peace when the battle starts.

[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_00]: More from Josh and Petrina and their expertise when we get back after this break.

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_03]: You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to the Millennial Roundtable, where we're discussing the battle from Ezekiel and Revelations, the battle of Gog and Magog.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And Josh, we'd love to hear your analysis now.

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_00]: You told us you obviously don't think that this battle has started yet, because we have not seen Russia and Iran invade fully, you know, Israel from the north.

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_00]: But I'd love to hear your deeper analysis on this or any other, you know, connections with the end times that you would like to discuss today.

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And I just want to very quickly apologize ahead of time to Petrina if I end up hogging some of the time from this segment.

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Petrina, I do apologize about that.

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_04]: But so let me start by just making a statement about the pre-millennial timeline.

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_04]: If you're not a pre-millennial, if you're listening, you're not pre-millennial in your eschatology, you're post-millennial or all-millennial,

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_04]: or you just want to know what the difference is, I did a two-hour live stream giving all the evidence why I think we should be pre-millennial from the Bible,

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_04]: and I think it's overwhelming evidence.

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_04]: You can go on to the Bible explained, youtube.com forward slash the Bible explained, and see that if you'd like.

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_04]: But the pre-millennial timeline, for those who don't know, has a seven year, and I think this is thoroughly biblical,

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_04]: seven years of trouble in the future before Jesus returns.

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_04]: So you have seven years, then you have Jesus returning.

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_04]: When he returns, he fights the battle of Armageddon.

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Then he sets up his kingdom for a thousand years on this earth, and at the end of a thousand years,

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_04]: there are people who were born during that millennial kingdom who revolt against Christ,

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_04]: and that is the final battle when Christ destroys all enemies and ushers in eternity with him in the new heavens and the new earth.

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_04]: So you've got seven years, a thousand years, and then eternity.

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_04]: And in between the seven years and the thousand years is a battle, and at the end of the thousand years is another battle.

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Now, according to Revelation 20, we're told, by the way, the book of Revelation is packed, filled with references to other prophecies in the Bible

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_04]: where it's saying, listen, I'm going to explain to you this prophecy, essentially.

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_04]: It references Daniel in almost every chapter of Revelation.

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Revelation 20 references Ezekiel 38 and 39 calling the battle at the end of the millennium the battle of Gog and Magog.

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_04]: So this is the only thing we know with absolute certainty about the battle of Gog and Magog,

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_04]: is that it definitely has its final fulfillment in the end battle at the end of a thousand-year reign of Christ.

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_04]: So we have at least 1,007 years between now and the final fulfillment of the battle of Gog and Magog.

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Now, that being said, there's a really good argument in the Scripture to make that Ezekiel 38 and 39 has a dual fulfillment.

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_04]: It has a partial fulfillment in another battle and a final fulfillment in the battle at the end of a thousand years.

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think the best argument for that is that the first primary fulfillment is found in the battle of Armageddon at the end of the tribulation.

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_04]: So a very brief way to say what we know for sure is that it's not going to be finally fulfilled for quite some time.

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_04]: But we can speculate that it might have some partial fulfillment.

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think there's good reason to speculate from the text that it might have a partial fulfillment in the battle of Armageddon.

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_04]: However, I don't see any reason, like no reason other than just pure speculation, no biblical real reason at all,

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_04]: to say that this is taking place before the tribulation.

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I know that's a popular view that other people have.

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_04]: I see no reason in the text.

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_04]: The text says that it's going to happen when Gog decides to attack.

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_04]: So that is, Gog would be tribal regions that are now Russia.

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_04]: When Russia essentially decides to attack Israel, that's not at all what we're seeing right now.

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_04]: We're seeing other nations making the decision to attack Russia could, I guess, potentially jump in on their decision.

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_04]: But it's a very different scenario than what we saw in Ezekiel 38.

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_04]: It also happens when Israel is just sitting for years and years at peace, which we know is not the case for Israel right now.

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_04]: So that doesn't seem at all to fit.

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Also, by the time that the tribulation is finished, at least, we know there's going to be a temple in Israel

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_04]: because there has to be a desecration of that temple three and a half years before Christ returns.

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_04]: And there's no temple in Israel.

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_04]: So those are strong reasons to say it's not the Battle of Gog and Magog right now.

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't see any good reason to say that it is other than, oh, look, we have all of these nations that seem to be teaming up together.

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_04]: But here's the thing about prophecy.

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Whenever there is a final end-time prophecy, there is often, often partial or what I like to call foreshadow fulfillments of that prophecy.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_04]: For instance, the prophecy of the Antichrist, you could say a lot of those prophecies were fulfilled in Hitler, for instance,

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_04]: though not all of them.

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_04]: There are foreshadow fulfillments of prophecy all throughout history.

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_04]: But I think what we're seeing right now is probably a foreshadow fulfillment,

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_04]: maybe even something that lays the groundwork for these nations banding up together again in the future.

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_04]: But I don't think it is actually the Battle of Gog and Magog,

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_04]: and I don't think we have any scriptural reason to think so.

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_04]: So just a little last little nugget for the listeners, if you go read Daniel 11,

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_04]: the last half of Daniel 11 is very interesting.

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_04]: It's talking about a time at the beginning of the Tribulation when the Antichrist is setting up his empire

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_04]: and putting down the forces that are against him.

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_04]: And he actually does go into Libya and into Egypt and down into the south and also into the north and to Russia

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_04]: in order to stop those who are rising against him.

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's just a fascinating read.

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Most people ignore Daniel 11.

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_04]: But this may be setting the stage for that beginning of the Tribulation scenario.

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Very possible.

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, interesting.

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so glad you showed up ready to preach today, Josh, because we've needed this.

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And I have heard many say,

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_00]: oh, that battle from Ezekiel will not occur until at least mid-Tribulation or the end.

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_00]: But I have never heard the arguments for that.

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And so it was very helpful for you to go there.

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Petrina, I know that you looked over these materials and you're well-versed in Scripture.

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Give me your take.

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, first of all, I just went to class.

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_05]: And I just know that I'm going to go and read Daniel 11.

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_05]: And I have heard people who, you know, share another theory, you know, the opposite theory,

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_05]: that they do believe Ezekiel 38 is upon us.

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_05]: And I believe that was last preached by Jack Hibbs, a really great culturally engaged pastor in California.

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_05]: But I would tend to agree with Josh.

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_05]: I think, you know, there's just not a lot of things in place to definitively say that that's where we're at.

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_05]: But when you look at the times that we're in, we're definitely in the times where the hearts of most have grown cold.

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_05]: We're in the times where evil is called good and good is called evil.

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_05]: And so the one thing I think to stay focused on is what Jesus really illustrated to us through a lot of his parables in the Gospels,

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_05]: through the lamps, through being watchful, through the thief that comes of the night and the good shepherd,

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_05]: is that you need to be ready and that we need to be seekers of the seasons.

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_05]: We need to be seers of the seasons.

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_05]: That means we need to be paying attention, not having our heads stuck in the sand,

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_05]: and not saying, oh, I don't get in politics or I'm of the party of the lamb nonsense.

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_05]: No, Christ wants us to be aware of what's going on in the world, and that includes politics.

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Politics is the flow of the world.

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, people may not like that word, but it's really just to sum up the idea of the way of life.

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_05]: And everything about the way of life is going to be interrupted when we look at the nation of Israel.

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_05]: So it's really good to focus on what's happening there, as that would be the pinpoint to tell us where we're at.

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_05]: But the main thing is to be ready and to be seers.

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I can't emphasize that enough, to be seers of the seasons.

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Not to say, I'm going to be, you know, the skittish Christian who just focused on the Gospels.

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, no, you're advocating your responsibility to say, as Jesus said, when you see these things happening,

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_05]: know that your promise is near, that my coming is near.

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_05]: So it's really important to know about these things and to be engaged and to know what our role is in the world

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_05]: and being faithful to actually tell the seasons.

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Well said.

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_00]: We can't have, you know, everything revolves around Israel from scriptures beginning to end.

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you guys so much for your analysis, for your input today.

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_00]: We've been so grateful for you.

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Don't go anywhere after this short break.

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Who can you trust?

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Years ago, many of us could probably have provided a fairly long list.

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[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Educators don't even know what a woman is anymore.

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Many so-called public servants have shown all they care about is themselves.

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_03]: The FBI has been accused of bias, law-breaking, betrayal, and journalism.

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_03]: It's largely corrupt with no Clark Kent standing up for truth, justice, and the American way.

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[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Don't put it off.

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Take a moment right now and click on that big blue button that says Donate Now.

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Or call to invest at 1-800-347-5151.

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Pointofview.net and 800-347-5151.

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Point of View will continue after this.