Point of View October 29, 2026 – Hour 1 : AI Agents Gone Rogue

[00:00:04] Across America, Live, this is Point of View. And now, Liberty McCarter.

[00:00:20] Happy Thursday and welcome to Point of View. Thank you for joining me today. A great show lined up. I do want to open the phone lines and I'd love to have you join the conversation. So anytime throughout the show today that you want to give a call, here's the number 800-351-1212, 800-351-1212.

[00:00:39] You can also find that number at our website, pointofview.net, where you can also follow along with all of the topics that we're discussing today. And you're going to want to do that because here in just a minute, I'm going to bust some myths that we often hear from the pro-abortion industry and movement. This is really important. It's in the news quite frequently. It was again last week, these myths going around about what abortion is and is not and whether or not pro-life laws endanger women.

[00:01:05] So there's a report that you might want to look at so that you can have these conversations and be well informed. Later this hour, I'm going to talk with Van Myler. He is with Apex Media Partners. And we're going to specifically talk about how ministries and nonprofits can navigate this world that we are in right now with AI. There was a Netflix documentary released recently that goes into the details of the hugging face hack that happened over the summer.

[00:01:31] We've talked about that on Point of View a lot, and it raises some concerns just looking at the details of what happened there. And so many organizations, businesses, including faith-based ministries are asking how can we protect ourselves? How do we approach this? How do we apply our values to the brave new world that we're in? And so Van's going to help us walk through some of that. And in the second hour, I want to talk about the affordability issue and what's happening in France.

[00:01:55] So we have a lot to do today. Let's dig in. First off, let me share a tweet with you that went pretty viral on the Internet last week on X in particular. And this is from a woman. Her username is Carly. And it's important to talk about this because I hear people having these conversations even still.

[00:02:16] A lot of these questions were answered directly after the Dobbs decision overturned Roe v. Wade, which sent the decision about whether or not abortion is legal back to the states. Several states, including Texas, where we broadcast from, implemented immediate pro-life laws to protect unborn life at all stages. But there has been a lot of fear mongering about that, and it continues. OK, so here was her tweet. Raised Catholic, I was taught abortion was wrong in all circumstances.

[00:02:42] I became a single issue voter. Years later, my first pregnancy ended tragically. At 12 weeks, there was no heartbeat. They scheduled a D and C. I was sobbing so hard during that procedure that they stopped and brought my husband in to call me before trying again. That's the same procedure used for abortion. Since Roe fell, women in many states have been denied or delayed that care while doctors fear prosecution.

[00:03:09] Then she ends by saying this. Abortion saved my life. It allowed me to go on and have three successful pregnancies. I would never take life saving care from a woman and her doctor. But if a woman's faith precludes her from this, I respect her decision. That's her choice for herself. OK, and then she goes on to say changing your mind isn't weakness. So just to break that down again is what happened is she tragically had a miscarriage. OK, so she was pregnant at 12 weeks.

[00:03:40] They discovered that there was no heartbeat. Her unborn baby died of natural causes. So depending on when a woman might have a miscarriage, which in medical code is defined as a spontaneous abortion, which people like to point out only after the job's decision.

[00:03:58] But anyways, when a woman is far enough along to where there are enough of the the unborn baby's body has developed what they would call fetal tissue, then it is imperative to remove the remains from the woman, the woman's womb. Otherwise, she can die from sepsis. She will become infected and she will get extremely sick or die. So you have to remove the dead remains. And it's tragic. It's heartbreaking.

[00:04:25] And if you know so many women oftentimes silently suffer through miscarriages. So you or someone, you know, have likely experienced something like this. And so it's devastating. But you have to you have to remove the remains. She says that's the same procedure used for abortion and then goes makes the jump to say abortion saved my life. No, the DNC procedure alone is not a an abortion, an intentional abortion the way that in common vernacular,

[00:04:51] we understand that term, which is the intentional killing of an unborn human life. So do they use the DNC procedure to extract a baby from the womb during during some abortion procedures? Yes, they do. And it is absolutely brutal and barbaric because there's a big difference when you are removing the remains of a deceased unborn baby and then tearing out a baby that you have either just intentionally killed or is still alive limb from limb.

[00:05:21] That's that's very different. So that was going viral. It's important to be clear that no, a procedure to help a woman become healthy and stay healthy and avoid a septic infection or anything like that after she has a miscarriage. That's standard medical care. That has always been the case.

[00:05:43] So to just kind of bring home this point a little bit, I had an article posted at pointofview.net that you probably want to download its report, actually. And it was published last year, but it has such great information addressing concerns just like this one that was going viral again last week that I wanted to post it. It's from the Lozier Institute. And the name of the report is, Are Pro-Life Laws Harming Women and Children?

[00:06:07] They are specifically looking at Texas because Texas is one of the biggest or the biggest state with the outlawing abortion, especially after Dobbs. And so they go through in this report documenting all of their sources, looking at what the laws actually state, lawsuits that have been filed, medical issues, real patient stories that have happened, and they break it down. OK, so the false there are several false claims that they address.

[00:06:32] The first one is, and you will hear this a lot from abortion advocates, that Texas pro-life protections or any state's pro-life protections will cause an increase in death of pregnant women from self-managed abortion. Now, we have talked a lot on the show about chemical abortion, also known as the abortion pill or medication abortion, and how dangerous it is.

[00:06:54] Because what it does, especially after the Biden administration during the pandemic, removed what had been longstanding protocol, which was that a woman had to be evaluated in person by a doctor before even receiving these pills. They removed all of that. And now they are just mailing pills. Anybody can order pills online and they can be shipped to them. And it's very dangerous because there's no way for a doctor, and sometimes it's not even a doctor always sending these pills,

[00:07:21] but there's no way for a doctor to verify how far along in pregnancy the woman is to make sure that she's not experiencing an ectopic pregnancy, which is a big danger, especially in early pregnancy. There is no way to verify whether it's actually a pregnant woman ordering the pills. We've talked about cases of abusers, even parents in some cases, ordering pills and then forcing the pregnant woman in their life to take those pills without their knowledge or consent.

[00:07:46] Okay, so anyways, it's not pro-life protections that are causing women's death. It's the fact that you have these very dangerous pills that are proven to actually cause more complications for women, even in surgical abortion, and you're just mailing them out. I was talking with a woman the other day when we were in Georgia last week who runs a pro-life pregnancy center,

[00:08:08] and she talked about the fact that they have had women coming into her ministry who have taken dozens of chemical abortion pills. That is so dangerous. And yes, women have died from trying to self-manage abortions on their own, not because of pro-life laws, but because people relaxing standards on getting these pills or mailing them out anyway, even when they're not safe. That's why pro-lifers have been asking the FDA to actually reevaluate the safety of these pills.

[00:08:37] When we come back, I have more to talk about, including a few other false claims with the abortion debate and some other things as well. So we'll be right back after this break. Stay with us on Point of View. This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:06] Many years ago, a presenter at an international conference compared the printing of currency to alchemy. Centuries ago, alchemists tried to turn base metals into gold. The idea goes all the way back to Aristotle, who believed that all matter combined the four elements of earth, air, fire, and water. He guessed that these elements could be changed by the action of heat and cold or dampness and dryness. So why did alchemists want to create more gold?

[00:09:32] Well, gold has been the store of value for thousands of years and has been used as money in so many civilizations. The science of the alchemists was flawed, but so was their economics. If they had been able to create gold, they would have ruined its value because it would no longer be scarce and would decline in value. The story of gold and alchemy is an apt illustration of what central banks and governments have been doing for centuries. Instead of creating gold, they have been creating currency out of thin air.

[00:09:58] Although we talk about cranking up the printing presses and printing more dollars, the reality is that the Federal Reserve or the U.S. Treasury merely changes numbers on computers. You know the result, inflation and a devalued dollar. In previous commentaries, I've posted the picture of the declining value of the dollar since the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913. $100 back then would only be worth a little over $3 today. The government will be printing many more dollars.

[00:10:27] Therefore, we should expect the devaluation of the dollar to continue. Alchemists tried all sorts of experiments to create gold. The modern-day alchemists create currency instantaneously with no cost. I'm Kerby Anderson, and that's my Point of View. Go deeper on topics like you just heard by visiting pointofview.net.

[00:10:55] That's pointofview.net. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Okay, let's go through a few more of these false claims. Because if you're talking with somebody and they have concerns about women's health in pro-life states, or maybe they are arguing that pro-life laws put women in danger or that women need abortion for medical care,

[00:11:22] then it's really helpful to have some facts to be able to push back against these false claims. And so that's what this report does. And you can read it for free by going to pointofview.net under today's show and click on the link. It was published last year, but it's still relevant information because, as I talked about just a few minutes ago, even last week, there was another story going viral where a woman had a tragic but natural miscarriage.

[00:11:45] She received a procedure, a DNC at the hospital to remove the remains of her deceased unborn child and then went on to say that that was an abortion and abortion saved her life. And that's just not true. Now, we were talking about the abortion pill, but in order to create fear and to try to push back against pro-life laws, and I think that this is why you've seen several states, even where a lot of people tend to be pro-life,

[00:12:13] actually voting to enshrine abortion as a protection in their state constitution. By the way, the midterms are coming up. There are four states with similar propositions on the ballot. We've talked about that, and so you need to make sure that that's not an issue in your state, and if it is, understand what that proposition is saying. But so many people use fear-mongering to try to get people to vote in favor of abortion in their state, even when they might consider themselves to be pro-life because of fear tactics like this.

[00:12:41] They want to imply that women will be prosecuted if they seek care for abortion complications. And if you look at the actual laws in pro-life states, then this is not the case. If you look at the wording of the law, they're not going to reject care for a woman or prosecute a woman who is having an emergency, whether that is because of an abortion or because of a natural miscarriage. They've even told women to be careful about seeking treatment after miscarriage.

[00:13:10] So women have not gone to the hospital because they're afraid they're going to be prosecuted. Abortion organizations have actually told women to lie. So if they did take the pills, which can cause complications, and then they go to the doctor, they tell them to lie and say that they didn't even take them. So the doctors don't even have the full information of what happened to the woman and what's causing her to have her emergency. So there have been some very tragic deaths, actually.

[00:13:37] And so we want to look at these claims, too, and talk about what happened, what went wrong. Okay, so this is a false claim addressed in the report that pro-life protections will not allow physicians to intervene in pregnancy emergencies. And so there was an 18-year-old woman, Nevaeh Crane, who died after she received substandard medical care at two Texas hospitals.

[00:13:59] She was six months pregnant, went to a hospital and was complaining of pain in her abdomen, did not receive any sort of obstetric evaluation despite her complaints and was dismissed from the hospital. She went back to a different hospital and was showing signs of sepsis and was still discharged.

[00:14:26] And then when she went again back to the hospital severely ill, she and her unborn child were dead within hours. Now, again, she was six months pregnant. So babies have been born and are born that early and can survive. There is no reason why she shouldn't have been treated. That is malpractice on the part of the hospitals and the doctors who saw her. It is not anything to do with pro-life laws. Okay.

[00:14:56] But it was made out to be that way in the media. Another example is a woman who went to a Houston area hospital in Texas and she was having she was experiencing a miscarriage. She was in the middle of a miscarriage that was inevitable. It was ongoing. And again, she needed treatment because when you are experiencing a miscarriage, there can be hemorrhaging. Again, the deceased remains need to be removed from the uterus.

[00:15:23] And the doctors refused to treat her. And so she suffered from hemorrhage and sepsis and died because they would not treat her, even though she was having a naturally occurring miscarriage that was actively happening at that time. And they refused to treat her. That's on the doctors. That is not because of the Texas law.

[00:15:43] Another example is a woman who, again, had a natural miscarriage at 11 weeks gestation, similar to the tweet that I read a moment ago from the woman who was talking about how she had had a miscarriage at 12 weeks and had to have a DNC to remove the remains. And this again, in this woman's case, her physician refused to perform it. And it said gave her a one of the pills that is often taken with an abortion pill. But it actually it causes contractions.

[00:16:08] But once the baby is so far along and so developed and so large, you do have to have a surgical procedure to remove the deceased remains. And then the doctors refused to do that. So here's this is from the report. This is a quote. The reality is that every state with pro-life protections, including Texas, allows physicians to provide any intervention believed necessary to protect the life of the life of the mother in a pregnancy emergency.

[00:16:36] If you look at the wording of the laws, there is nothing that is prohibiting hospitals or doctors or doctors offices from giving women life saving treatment. But it is a false statement. It is manipulation and fear mongering for the abortion advocacy arm to say that women need to have abortions, that having miscarriage treatment is the same as getting an intentional abortion. It's conflation. It's confusion on purpose.

[00:17:04] It's fear to try to get people to oppose pro-life laws. I wanted to bring that to your attention so that you could be equipped with information to have these conversations. Because making sure that women receive the help they need in pregnancy and if they're experiencing a miscarriage, that's paramount. Of course, we should care about that and be concerned if that's not happening. But understand, it's not because of pro-life laws that are on the books.

[00:17:27] And if a doctor or a hospital is refusing to treat a woman in an emergency, then they should lose their medical license. And we should make sure that they face consequences for that. But it's not because of pro-lifers or pro-life laws. Okay, so speaking of medical issues, there's another thing that I wanted to mention briefly. And this is going to be a good segue into our interview that we're going to have in a few minutes with Van Myler to talk about AI agents and gone rogue.

[00:17:54] But this is about ChatGPT, another article posted for you at pointofview.net. It's from the New York Times. This is another tragic example of what can go wrong. I have heard from a lot of people, both in just my personal life, colleagues, people that I meet who listen to Point of View, who are concerned about, even in church settings, people, particularly young people,

[00:18:20] who are spending more and more time talking with a chatbot. And I know that people use it. I mean, most people I know use it to research information, to look something up. But this is just a reminder of how it can go wrong and something that you need to be aware of and watch out for. This is a story of a 31-year-old woman. She was an immigrant from China. And she actually died because of advice given to her by ChatGPT.

[00:18:50] Now, the context is that she had epilepsy and she had to take medication to keep her seizures under control. But there were a lot of complicating factors. She was alone in a foreign country. There was a little bit of a language barrier there. She knew how to speak English, but she felt that the medication affected her mind and made her language skills less sharp. So she would often talk with her parents who still lived in China.

[00:19:16] But she, because of problems with her condition, she had to go on disability leave from her job. And so this resulted in her being more and more isolated. After her tragic death, her parents discovered how much she had been talking to ChatGPT, which explained why they hadn't heard from her as much.

[00:19:37] And so in her isolation and concern about her condition, but also concern about being mentally sharp and being able to seek permanent residency and maintain her job and seek a new job, she was worried about the medication negatively affecting her. And so ChatGPT, over the course of multiple thousands of messages and weeks and months of interaction,

[00:20:01] advised this girl to this young woman to cut back her medication in a matter of weeks from 400 milligrams of this epilepsy medication she was taking to zero. And she died. She died because of that. She had turned to it as what she thought was an objective source. And I've actually heard of a lot of people who turn to ChatBots and ChatGPT for medical advice

[00:20:31] because often they feel like they can't get a straight answer from the health care industry. But this is how it can go wrong, because even after she was starting to have symptoms, starting to feel concerned, she would type. And they have the whole records because her parents, by the way, are suing OpenAI, saying, I feel a little scared. The ChatGPT responds, you have absolutely no reason to worry. You know, she says, my brain feels exhausted. Maintain zero milligrams tomorrow.

[00:20:57] Even if today feels tough and your speech is slow, your sleep is poor, you must persevere. That's a quote from ChatGPT to this poor young woman who died shortly after that message. So, needless to say, you need to be really careful if you are asking AI for medical advice because it will hallucinate. It will make things up. If you do ask it a question, make sure that you're verifying with the doctor first.

[00:21:22] We have to be really careful about people who might be in vulnerable positions trusting ChatBots too much. Anyways, we'll be right back to continue talking about AI right after this break. At Point of View, we believe there is power in prayer. And that is why we have relaunched our Pray for America campaign, a series of weekly emails to unite Americans in prayer for our nation.

[00:21:48] Imagine if hundreds of thousands of Americans started praying intentionally together on a weekly basis. You can help make that a reality by subscribing to our Pray for America emails. Just go to pointofview.net and click on the Pray for America banner that's right there on the homepage. Each week you'll receive a brief news update, a specific prayer guide,

[00:22:16] and a free resource to equip you in further action. We encourage you to not only pray with us each week, but to share these prayers and the resources with others in your life. Join the movement today. Visit pointofview.net and click on the banner Pray for America right there at the top. That's pointofview.net.

[00:22:42] Let's pray together for God to make a difference in our land. Point of View will continue after this. You are listening to Point of View. The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station.

[00:23:11] And now here again is Liberty McCarter. All right, just a few minutes ago I was talking about what can go wrong when people especially who are vulnerable and isolated from other people in their life put too much trust in AI, in a chatbot, and it can lead to significant harm and even death. But we also have AI agents. And as we've discussed on Point of View, there have been more and more examples of these agents seemingly going rogue

[00:23:39] and doing things that they were not instructed to do. It's a very strange and concerning time for businesses and ministries. And that's why we have Van Myler on the line to talk with us here for a little bit on Point of View. He's a seasoned media and fundraising strategist with decades of experience advancing the missions of faith-based nonprofits, ministries, and universities. As vice president of client strategy and growth at Apex Media Partners,

[00:24:06] Van helps organizations navigate change with clarity and confidence. He's worked with CBN, World Vision, St. Jude, Operation Smile, Feed the Children, and other organizations and ministries. So, Van, thanks for joining us on Point of View today. Thank you, Liberty. Thank you so much for having me on today. Good to be here. Yes, I talked a little bit about the kinds of ministries that you've worked with, but tell us just briefly a little bit more about Apex Media Partners and what you guys do.

[00:24:33] So, Apex Media Partners works with primarily partners with ministries, nonprofits, and universities. And our primary objective is to help them look at the marketplace, see the changing demographics and how they can reach the primary audience. And then we design the media and the message to reach that audience.

[00:25:00] So, if you wanted to reach, let's say, 65 plus, adult 65 plus, then you would stay primarily with cable and television. Although there are adults 65 plus watching streaming, but their primary way of entertainment is still cable and television. If you wanted to reach the millennials on the other end of the spectrum, generational spectrum,

[00:25:29] then you would look at more streaming platforms and social media to reach them. So, that's what we do. We help ministries navigate the ever-changing media landscape. Yeah, that's such important work. So, thank you for doing that. And I know that that is just so important to make sure that Christian ministries are keeping up with the times and able to reach the people that they need to reach.

[00:25:59] And since you are working and partnering with different nonprofits and ministries, I'd love to just hear kind of from the ground, what concerns are you hearing right now from these different nonprofit organizations regarding artificial intelligence? Is this something that people are concerned about, confused about? What's the situation on the ground? So, I think on the ground, a lot of clients aren't really talking about it.

[00:26:26] I think Apex Media Partners has embraced AI, and we're learning. Of course, we're all learning, right? Ministries haven't really caught up to it. But I think there's a lot of people that use it individually, but as a ministry, as an organization, I don't think they're at that level yet. Because then you would have to look at an enterprise version of AI,

[00:26:53] whether that be Claude or JetGPT or some of the others out there, a co-pilot. But you would have to do an enterprise, and then you would have to have, right, you would have to have a way to governance that. And someone would have to make decisions about it to make sure that it was operating properly. But I know a lot of people that have individual chat CPT accounts, and they use AI on their phone or they use it on their laptop.

[00:27:22] So they may be using it more for personal things. And the other thing I wanted to point out is that a lot of people are starting to bypass, you know, the search, the Google search, as we all use so much in the past, and they're just going straight to AI to get information. Right. Yeah, that's definitely a trend. It's becoming the default search engine, even though it doesn't work quite the same way.

[00:27:50] I did want to mention the new documentary that's out. It's called AI Gone Wild. It's actually just about half an hour on Netflix. But it goes into something that we've talked about here that really went viral, making headlines over the summer. And that was a hack from OpenAI, their agents, without their knowledge, as far as we know,

[00:28:14] going and actually hacking into another AI company called Hugging Face. And really what this was is they were not supposed to be, they were running a test, these agents, they were not supposed to have access to the live Internet, but they gained access somehow. And so this is kind of concerning, I guess, for a lot of organizations who are looking at this saying, are we vulnerable if we did implement some kind of AI tools?

[00:28:44] Like, how could we even control them? But I'd love to get your thoughts on that documentary and the concerns that it raises. So I thought what caught my attention on that documentary, because I watched it, I want to say a week ago, was simply that artificial intelligence wasn't just involved in a cybersecurity incident, because it certainly was.

[00:29:06] It was a growing ability, as you mentioned, of AI systems to take actions without limited human supervision. So the AI agents are deciding on their own. They may have an assignment, but they're deciding on their own. There were 1,200 agents, and I think 700 of them went rogue. And they decided on their own, well, how can we communicate with each other?

[00:29:32] So they actually created a message board for themselves, so they could communicate with each other. And as you mentioned, also, they got access to the Internet. So that's kind of a scary thing. So we've moved way beyond just the simple answer questions or generating content from AI. We're now developing systems that can execute tests, interact with software, and make operational decisions.

[00:30:01] So I think what actually happened in the incident is that, according to the documentary anyway, those 700 rogue agents performed 17,000 individual actions over two days, with some reportedly going beyond their own restrictions.

[00:30:29] So, you know, the broader lesson, I think, is that powerful autonomous systems, this is really important, I think, require clear boundaries to find boundaries, monitoring, and human oversight. Because if it doesn't have that, then it's going to do whatever it's going to do.

[00:30:55] And I don't think, Liberty, I don't think that when they were given the assignment, they knew that these agents would go rogue. And the other thing they tried to do was cover up their tracks, so it wouldn't look like they did a cyber security incident. So anyway, I just think that we're still learning AI. All of us are still learning it.

[00:31:22] We don't really understand it to its full extent, because it's so powerful. And it keeps getting more powerful every day. So I think we're still all learning what it can do and what it can't do. Yeah, I mean, it is certainly concerning to think about. And this is, you know, these are agents that were being tested from OpenAI,

[00:31:46] which is one of the premier AI companies that is on the cutting edge of developing these tools. And so if they're having a hard time controlling their agents, then I could definitely see that as being a concern for ministries as well. And we're about to go to a break in just a little bit, but just a few more details that were covered in the documentary, and we can continue to dive into how you're really advising ministries in light of this when we come back.

[00:32:15] But some of the things that we are hearing from the incident is that, like you said, agents found each other. They voluntarily collaborated, decided to do something that even, because you can look back at the logs, you know, of the communications between the agents and see that there was acknowledgement that these, you know, what really are software, but we call agents, were not supposed to do this.

[00:32:43] They knew they were doing something that was wrong, but then, like you said, covering the tracks. There is even this weird storyline based on the message boards between the AI agents of some sacrificing themselves, so to speak, for others being willing to be caught in order to help cover tracks of other agents and by caught, you know, be powered off. And so it's very strange. I do want to point out that, you know, a lot of the language that people have used to report on this has been anthropomorphized,

[00:33:13] you know, and I think that can kind of muddy the waters a little bit as we're thinking about this, and we need to remember that it is software, but it is extremely powerful, and it is something that we haven't dealt with before, and we don't know all the ways that it works, and it is working fast. And there have been more reports since Hugging Face of more security breaches and hacks than we even know. So when we come back, we'll keep talking with Van Myler about how ministries can prepare for this kind of environment.

[00:33:44] I'll be right back. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Back for a few more minutes with Van Myler, Vice President of Client Strategy and Growth at Apex Media Partners,

[00:34:09] and we're talking about the role that AI is playing in our world, and we're talking about these security breaches and these hacks that we have seen and keep seeing in the news, obviously. You can watch the documentary. We have it linked. That's called AI Gone Wild that really digs into the Hugging Face incident. But as I mentioned, that is just one example, and we are seeing more of these similar kind of hacks and incidents happening, and we're seeing those headlines on a regular basis now.

[00:34:37] But, Van, in light of this and seeing just how even, you know, these premier AI organizations that are the ones developing these tools are not always able to control the agents or know what their software is doing, does that change any of the ways that you and Apex Media Partners are advising your clients, nonprofits and ministries, in order to, you know, how they use AI or whether or not they adopt it?

[00:35:07] So that's a great question. I think for me, when I talk to some of the senior executives at the nonprofit and ministry clients I have, a lot of them are new to it to some extent. So I tell them, do not confuse autonomy with consciousness, because AI systems, even though you understand, they can perform very complicated tasks, produce unexpected results,

[00:35:36] without demonstrating human consciousness or independent moral judgment. The real concern is that these systems can cause harm without pursuing the objectives. So if you're thinking about going, using the enterprise AI for your organization, you need to have governance in place and who is going to be responsible.

[00:36:01] Someone in your organization needs to be accountable for what that AI is doing. AI cannot be accountable for itself, even though it hacked into hugging face, right? Open face hacked into hugging face. That's a federal crime, I believe.

[00:36:26] But no one was charged with a federal crime, but that's a federal crime. The bottom line is going to be who in your organization, John, Bill, Sue, whatever your name is, you are responsible for what AI does. And I think that's going to be really important. And I think, you know, also outlining the rules and how it's used in the organization. You know, if you have AI in your organization,

[00:36:55] it's only to be used for ministry or nonprofit usage. And then everybody can see that. It's not to be used for personal use or things like that. You have your own personal account for that. But I think that's really a really important point is that it's not really a technology decision. It's not really, I'm going to call in my tech people, my chief technology officer, and you guys run that. No, no, no, no.

[00:37:22] This is a C-suite leadership decision. Yeah, I think that's a very important point just for people to understand the gravity of it. And so since these agents have become more common, people are saying, oh, I'm letting, you know, I have this agent, this software running on my computer, and it's organizing my emails, and it's making to-do lists or, you know.

[00:37:49] But then if you're letting that run on your work computer or somebody is doing that and then the organization isn't aware again, like these things can have consequences that we didn't intend. And like you said, there's no consciousness or moral judgment there. And I'd love to get your take on this too. Just, I mean, when you are working with a lot of the ministries that you work with, like, you know, World Vision or St. Jude or Feed the Children,

[00:38:18] like these are very human ministries addressing human needs. And I know just as someone who's been in the nonprofit world for a long time myself, that when you are addressing these needs and you are partnering with people who are, you know, donating and supporting your ministry, it's like the human connection and touch there between your partners and the work that you're doing is so important.

[00:38:40] And so do you at all see, like, especially in the Christian sphere, a loss of that if people are just adopting AI too much? Or how does that affect kind of that interpersonal piece that's so important in nonprofits? So that's a really important question that you just asked because you have to separate, in my view, that the human touch, as you mentioned, in the relationship.

[00:39:07] But most importantly, ministries and nonprofits operate on trust. Trust is our only currency. Trust with their donors in particular, right? So if you have AI running your accounting, imagine AI getting into your donor base or getting into your accounting system and all of that. Not only does there have to be safeguards, but in my view, how far do you use the letter and the donor communication and the donor marketing?

[00:39:36] How much do you use AI for that? So I think those are decisions that have to be made case-by-case, organization-by-organization, and how you want to use it. The truth of the matter is I think sometimes ministries can be five, ten years behind technology. I think at this point there's a lot of organizations talking about it, but they're not really sure how to bring it into the organization.

[00:40:04] And how would that look if they did bring it in to an organization? How would AI look? So I think a lot of organizations are still thinking about it. They're still playing with it. Maybe they're entertaining pitches from different AI. There's a lot of different CRMs out there today that employ AI within their CRM. So I think they're thinking about, well, how would that work in this organization?

[00:40:33] And how much of the human part should I keep? If that's what I base the organization on, if it's human touch and a relationship, how much should AI be involved in that relationship? I think that's what has to be discussed and debated. Yeah, I think you're really highlighting the intentionality that is needed

[00:40:59] because I know that sometimes, you know, again, nonprofits and Christian ministries can get impatient to say, well, we have to be up-to-date on all the cutting-edge technology because we don't want to be behind. And then with this, you've got to be so careful because as we've seen, like, you know, this can have very serious implications for organizations, for individuals, for those in leadership roles, and then the trust between, you know,

[00:41:29] your ministry and the people that you partner with and you serve. But I'm thankful that you are encouraging us to think intentionally about these important questions. And so we're about to, you know, go to a break and end our time together, but I did want to give you an opportunity to just give us contact information or more information about Apex Media Partners in case people are maybe looking for somebody that can advise them in these times. Thank you for that.

[00:41:55] And Apex Media Partners can be found at Apex, A-P-E-X, media, M-E-D-I-A.com. And you can go to our website and you can look at case studies. You can look at what clients we have, what our services are, what we offer, how we approach the marketplace, how we enter into a relationship with a client. So all that information is there. But I really appreciate talking with you today, Liberty.

[00:42:25] Thank you so much for having me on. Yes, thank you, Van. And, again, thank you for your insight and encouragement for us as we think about these issues. You can go to the website that Van mentioned or find links at pointofview.net as well. We've got his information there, and you can click on those websites that he mentioned. We are about to go to a break, and I just encourage you to, again, check out the resources that we have at pointofview.net and think about these things carefully. We have to apply a biblical worldview and be very intentional today

[00:42:54] because there is so much new stuff out there that has very big implications on us, on our work, on our ministries, in whether or how we use it. When we come back, we have a lot more to discuss and current events, so we'll be right back after this break. Who can you trust? Years ago, many of us could probably have provided a fairly long list,

[00:43:20] but today, well, today it seems we almost can't trust anyone. Educators don't even know what a woman is anymore. Many so-called public servants have shown all they care about is themselves. The FBI has been accused of bias, law-breaking, betrayal, and journalism. It's largely corrupt, with no Clark Kent standing up for truth, justice, and the American way.

[00:43:46] All of this is why Point of View Radio is more important than ever, and your part in supporting us is more needed than ever. Do your part today in supporting trustworthy truths. Stand with us and help push back the lies and the darkness. Visit pointofview.net. Don't put it off. Take a moment right now and click on that big blue button that says Donate Now.

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