Tuesday, October 22, 2024
In the second hour, Kerby welcomes Rosaria Butterfield. Dr. Butterfield will discuss theology, apologetics, and social issues as she brings us her new book, Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age.
Connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com/pointofviewradio and on Twitter @PointofViewRTS with your opinions or comments.
Looking for just the Highlights? Follow us on Spotify at Point of View Highlights and get weekly highlights from some of the best interviews!
[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Across America, Live, this is Point of View, Kirby Anderson.
[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_00]: This hour we're going to spend some time talking about our modern culture and really the fact that we live in a world of so many different lies and it's important for us to have an understanding.
[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And it seems to me that sometimes we're swayed by some of these trends, some of these fads, some of these lies that are being told.
[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And I thought it would be really important this hour to focus on a book and an individual that has really done an excellent job in this particular regard.
[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it would be very good for this first hour to go to an individual that we've talked about before, but I don't think we've ever had on the program.
[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And that is Dr. Rosaria Butterfield, who received her Ph.D. from Ohio State University,
[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_00]: has been known over the years as being the former professor of English and Women's Studies at Syracuse University,
[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_00]: but also is very well known.
[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_00]: We've talked about her before because of her conversion.
[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And you, of course, may be familiar with her book, The Secret Thoughts of an Unlikely Convert.
[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, she also read another book, The Gospel Comes with a House Key.
[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Heard her on lots of different radio programs.
[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_00]: As a matter of fact, we're going to today talk about the new book, Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age.
[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And when I was with Jeff Shreve the other day, he had the book on his desk.
[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, oh, yes, I'm looking forward to this interview.
[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And he said, well, I just did an interview with her and so good.
[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, again, we are excited to bring her to the conversation today.
[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_00]: She is, again, the author of this book, Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age.
[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_00]: It is published by Crossway Books.
[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_00]: It's been out for some time, but we have information about it on the website.
[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So, Dr. Butterfield, thank you so very much for joining us today here on Point of View.
[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, Kirby, the pleasure is all mine.
[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for having me.
[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Now you're listed as an author, pastor's wife, and a homeschool mom.
[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_00]: But you don't have to be very far into your book or find any story about you on various websites
[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_00]: to know that probably the most significant reason you are known is because of a very significant conversion.
[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And you actually start one of your chapters with that whole discussion talking about the fact that I was not raised in a Christian home.
[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And as a matter of fact, found yourself bristling when you went to church under the word of God because I was a feminist lesbian.
[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_00]: That was good.
[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And the church and the Bible are patriarchal.
[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_00]: That was bad.
[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So we are talking, first of all, about, of course, a very significant conversion that you use throughout the book to talk about some of these issues.
[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Right, right, right, right, right.
[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And I do that in part because I want my readers to understand my tone in this book is firm because this is the world I helped create.
[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And although I am a believer and I have been saved by the blood of Christ, you know, I'm also a grandmother.
[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And if you make a mess, you need to clean it up.
[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And so much of what we see in this world around the way that LGBTQ plus has gone way beyond just the political movement.
[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_02]: It's the reigning idol of our day.
[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And I used to be not only a lesbian, but a gay rights activist.
[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And so my fingerprints are all over this.
[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So you need to I need to come clean and help dismantle this idol.
[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, over this next hour, we'll do our best to try to cover many of the chapters.
[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_00]: There are, of course, 14 chapters, but they break into five categories.
[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_00]: The lies homosexuality is normal.
[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Being a spiritual person is kinder than a biblical Christian.
[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Feminism is good for the world and the church.
[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Transgenderism is normal.
[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And modesty is an outdated burden that serves male dominance and holds women back.
[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's we can just get into why it certainly is significant to address this issue of homosexuality, because we live in a society today where even people inside the church oftentimes say, well, I'm not homosexual.
[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have those temptations, but I certainly need to affirm and even accept those individuals.
[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And yet you come out talking about the fact that that's not the right strategy.
[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And if I could just back us up a little bit on that point, that was the reason that this book was written is that so many other mothers and grandmothers were writing to me just that very question and saying things like, you know, my church wants to major on the majors, but we can't even agree whether God's prohibition against homosexuality is a major.
[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_02]: So if Christ isn't divided, why are we?
[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_02]: How did this happen?
[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And what am I supposed to do now?
[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_02]: So, yes, this is the place that we need to start.
[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it does seem to me that if you get into, of course, any kind of scriptural perspective, whether you look at the Old Testament and Leviticus 18 and 19 or Genesis passages or even in Romans one, it is unnatural.
[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And so you take on that very important issue a little bit later because some people will simply say, and I've had individuals say to me, look, I didn't choose this, but it seems natural and it seems appropriate.
[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's exactly why if I feel that way, it must be true.
[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think from my own experience as someone who did believe the delusion, and it was a delusion that I was a lesbian and I lived like that, it was at first very threatening, but ultimately, you know, the most powerfully important and wonderful reality of my life to realize that homosexuality is found in the flesh.
[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_02]: We have to too much.
[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_02]: It used in the flesh, but it's forbidden in the law, and it's overcome in the Savior.
[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And so if we deny people gospel hope, but do so in the name of compassion, at best, we're pretty confused, and at worst, we're just cowards and we're people pleasing.
[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's really serious.
[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_02]: So, yes, the idea on the street is that if you have a sin pattern, but you didn't choose it,
[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_02]: and then let's go the next mile, and you're not even acting on it.
[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not a sin.
[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a form of suffering.
[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a condition.
[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like being born deaf or having a club foot.
[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_02]: But in order to say that, you have to throw away the 10th commandment,
[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_02]: thou shalt not covet.
[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_02]: It says thou shalt not covet.
[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, and then a list of other things.
[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't say thou shalt not take.
[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_02]: It says covet.
[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Covet is in the heart.
[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And then also Romans 7 where Paul says, why do I do what I don't want to do?
[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_02]: It is not I but sin in me.
[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So sin can be unchosen.
[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Sin can be not acted on.
[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And it is still a condemnable sin for which you are morally culpable.
[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And as you learn to repent of sin and live in the victory of Christ,
[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_02]: you know what happens?
[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Satan gets tired of you.
[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And he goes on to somebody else, and you start to experience real victory.
[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Let me, if I can, go to the break.
[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_00]: But when we come back, I did want to get into some of these issues
[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_00]: because some people wonder, again, Dr. Butterfield, how to react to this.
[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Even in the back you've got an afterword where you answer questions about,
[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_00]: well, if there is a same-sex wedding, can I go to it?
[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_00]: You have a section here on the difference between empathy and sympathy,
[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_00]: between acceptance and affirmation.
[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And then we'll move on to some other chapters because there are so many other issues.
[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe even have you help a little bit more, as I've tried in the past,
[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_00]: to explain intersectionality since you've devoted a chapter to it.
[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I think you probably can do a better job of explaining it than I.
[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_00]: But if you are just joining us, we are privileged to have Dr. Butterfield with us today.
[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_00]: We have information about her on the website, so you can go to her website and learn all more about her,
[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_00]: maybe even have her come and speak.
[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_00]: If you find yourself saying, well, I'd like to get a copy of this book, it has been out since September.
[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_00]: You probably can find it in your local bookstore.
[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_00]: It's published by our good friends at Crossway Books.
[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_00]: But if not, we have a way in which you can get it in hardcover or paperback or Kindle,
[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think you're going to find it very helpful and useful.
[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_00]: As we talk about many of the issues we discuss so often here on Point of View,
[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and we're privileged to have her with us for the entire hour.
[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And since many of you have, of course, heard her before, you may already have questions for her.
[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So in a few minutes, we'll open up the phones at 1-800-351-1212 to ask a question.
[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_00]: We'll be right back.
[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_01]: This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.
[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_00]: What do people in the intelligence community believe are the greatest threats to America?
[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I had an opportunity to watch one presentation that listed five threats.
[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_00]: The first is the possibility of an EMP attack in which a nuclear weapon is detonated at high altitude over this country.
[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_00]: The Congressional EMP Commission has stated that it could bring down the entire power grid.
[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_00]: The second threat could have a similar impact.
[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_00]: This is the concern that sleeper agents from foreign countries in this country get activated
[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_00]: and take down this country's power grid or conduct terrorist actions.
[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_00]: A third concern is the possibility of massive supply chain disruptions,
[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_00]: which surface because of looters or rioters who target food production facilities and supply chains.
[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_00]: We've seen many suspicious fires at food production plants.
[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And this overlaps with a fourth concern that the country breaks out into a civil war
[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_00]: with certain states deciding to secede and close their borders.
[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_00]: A fifth concern results from China invading Taiwan.
[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Some fear that this could trigger World War III if the U.S. decides to respond.
[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_00]: China has the largest navy in the world and more warships than the U.S.
[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I listed these in descending order of disruption.
[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_00]: The first two threats would have a devastating impact on the country.
[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Supply chain disruption could be harsh in some areas, perhaps less in others.
[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And we might hope that the likelihood of a national civil war or the onset of World War III would be less likely,
[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_00]: but very devastating if it occurred.
[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_00]: These threats are a reminder that we need to have serious and capable people in office.
[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_00]: It's also a reminder that each of us need to also prepare for scenarios like this we hope and pray never occur.
[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.
[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_01]: For a free booklet on a biblical view of Israel, go to viewpoints.info.com
[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_01]: You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.
[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Back once again talking about the book Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age.
[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Dr. Rosaria Butterfield with us, and we're talking about, at the moment, the issue of homosexuality,
[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_00]: but also this gets into a later chapter on transgenderism.
[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And it does seem to me, Dr. Butterfield, that part of the question that people that even hold to an orthodox biblical view,
[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and as you pointed out, a lot of individuals find themselves in churches where that's being compromised today,
[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_00]: but nevertheless, many of them are wondering,
[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_00]: okay, I know where I stand in terms of what the Bible has to say,
[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_00]: but I don't know how to then interact, engage in a discussion.
[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Do I affirm? Do I accept? Do I have empathy? Do I have sympathy?
[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Can you help us through that?
[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_02]: That is one of the key questions, and I think it's where everybody gets really tripped up.
[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So let's back up again for just a minute and remind ourselves that we have a sin nature,
[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and that we didn't choose that sin nature, but that we're responsible for it.
[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And because we have a Savior, we don't and we can't fix ourselves,
[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_02]: and we also, because we have a Savior and because we can't fix ourselves, we can't fix other people.
[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And that means that we're just not more merciful than God.
[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So the first thing we need to do is remember that there is no such thing as a gay person.
[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, I know that sounds crazy. Okay, I mean, I can hear the phone lines going.
[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, I lived as a lesbian, so I would have said, yes, during that time I was a gay person.
[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_02]: But I mean in terms of personhood, that personhood is owned by God.
[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_02]: It's being made in the image of God as male and female.
[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_02]: So a woman who experiences the sin of homosexuality is still a woman.
[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_02]: That's who she is ontologically, and a man who experiences the sin of homosexuality is still a man.
[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So it is not who you are, and it's not who your loved one is, although it may be how that person feels.
[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's the first order of business.
[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, the empathy-sympathy thing is a really – I find that to be a very important conversation right now,
[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_02]: especially with Joe Biden's anti-bullying legislation and every – you know, federally mandated in all government schools
[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_02]: that is just wreaking havoc among young people because of the way, particular way, that anti-bullying is defined.
[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_02]: In some ways it's defined as are you – can you empathize?
[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Can you stand in the shoes of this person who calls himself transgender?
[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And the problem with that is that that doesn't help anybody.
[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_02]: If I'm drowning in the river, you know, Kirby, please don't stand in my shoes.
[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Stay on solid ground and throw me a rope.
[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what the gospel does.
[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_02]: But we live in a hyper – in a hypertherapy world, a world that believes that feelings are insurmountable
[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_02]: and that feelings tell the truth of who people are.
[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's just not true.
[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_02]: God is insurmountable and God tells the truth of who people are.
[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And so for those of us who have been liberated from the LGBTQ plus idolatrous movement,
[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_02]: we can tell you that there is victory in Christ and there is hope in Christ
[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_02]: and there is hopelessness in this kind of, you know, therapy narrative of empathy.
[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's not compassion.
[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And I know most of our listeners probably already know what, you know, Pastor Alistair Begg said recently.
[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a very – you know, and, you know, maybe we'll get into that.
[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe we won't.
[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we all love Alistair.
[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_02]: We've all learned from him.
[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But that was a blunder.
[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_02]: That was a sin.
[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just not true.
[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_02]: It is not compassion to put millstones around the necks of people like the person I used to be.
[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'd really appreciate it if people wouldn't do that and call it love.
[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Again, speaking the truth in love is a biblical principle, and that is the case.
[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things – this kind of leads into your chapter on intersectionality.
[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_00]: As many of our listeners know, I used to spend lots of years speaking on college campuses as a guest speaker.
[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And I would work really hard to use inclusive language so it wouldn't offend a feminist.
[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I would try to use various kinds of ways to not cause any more affront.
[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_00]: But you tell an interesting story of being on a college campus in which you were talking about –
[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_00]: back in 1998 when it was close to your conversion where you were starting to believe the gospel.
[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_00]: that you talked about your transgender friend putting her large hands on top of you.
[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And immediately you get criticized as being homophobic, transphobic because you said she had large hands.
[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, that one would not have occurred to me that that would be offensive to individuals.
[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_00]: But it illustrates only so well, if you want to tell the rest of the story,
[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_00]: how today it's almost impossible to have just an honest, gracious conversation
[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_00]: because these micro-comments, you know, these micro-aggressions are everywhere these days.
[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_02]: But I'll tell you, that was great.
[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_02]: That was a great training ground for what I do these days, which is go to my local school board
[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_02]: and speak on the subject of parental rights and the junk science of transgenderism.
[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So those little dust-ups on college campuses were helpful.
[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, a student pops up and says, look, you called your transgender friend's hands large,
[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_02]: and that is transphobic.
[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, sometimes these Q&As on college campuses happen, you know, post my bedtime.
[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm exhausted.
[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_02]: My feet hurt.
[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I have to ask people, would you just exploit yourself a little bit, please?
[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I said that to the student.
[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And the student said, well, everybody knows that, quote, unquote, transgender women
[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and a, quote, unquote, transgender woman would be a biological man.
[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So everybody knows that transgender women are offended at the thought that their hands are large.
[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And they said, but large is, you know, it's a descriptive adjective.
[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just objective.
[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm five feet tall.
[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, my hands don't even span an octave.
[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Anybody's hands are larger than mine.
[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just the truth, I said.
[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And the student said something that was just transformative.
[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_02]: The student says, well, that's what leads LGBTQ plus people to suicide.
[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I said, but that's ridiculous.
[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_02]: The size of my friend's hands is objective truth.
[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And the student looked at me and said something that really made me realize just how, just what
[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_02]: an illness of intellectual, you know, perversion is going on on college campuses.
[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_02]: The student says, who cares about your truth?
[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Your truth isn't my truth.
[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Your truth hates my reality.
[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, there are lots of times, I'm not just on college campuses, but at school board meetings,
[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_02]: there are a lot of times when I realize a situation requires this old-fashioned thing called,
[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_02]: let's sit down and talk about this over dinner.
[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's get out of here.
[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And let's go, you know, in that case, let's go to the pastor's office.
[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go to the vice president's office.
[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Or when I'm in a school board meeting, can you come over for dinner or could I meet you at a coffee shop?
[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Because there's a level of simply paranoid delusion that goes into this.
[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And basically, intersectionality is the idea that goes like this.
[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_02]: There is no truth.
[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_02]: All there is is power.
[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And anyone with power is a dangerous person, even if that person has the authority to have that power.
[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And, therefore, the world will be a better place if we reallocate power.
[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And it is, you know, as I said, it's impossible to work, to talk somebody off that ledge in a public setting.
[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And here's the reason.
[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So much of the LGBTQ plus movement depends on a public setting.
[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_02]: That's what affirmation is.
[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the Obergefell decision, the 2015 Supreme Court decision, had something in it called the Dignitary Harm Clause.
[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_02]: It redefined legal harm to mean you are harming someone if you fail to affirm their LGBTQ plus dignity.
[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And so with all of this public fanfare, public affirmation, it's so important as a Christian to find ways to meet with people in this old-fashioned place called private.
[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And so with that, you know, I think it's a Christian to find out who is a Christian to find out who is a Christian to find out who is a Christian to find out who is a Christian.
[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_02]: To basically just negotiate the terms of our surrender.
[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_02]: That is not what God's calling anybody to do.
[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's not helpful.
[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not helpful to your loved ones.
[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's certainly not helpful to the witness of Christ.
[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Well said.
[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_00]: We need to take a break.
[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about the five lies of our anti-Christian age.
[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Since we did mention transgenderism, we'll come back and spend some time, jump ahead to one of the chapters there.
[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_00]: We've had, of course, Abigail Schreier on here.
[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_00]: We've talked about Lisa Littman.
[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_00]: We've talked about some of this idea of transgenderism, but that is one of the chapters in this book, along with other chapters, which we will get to as well.
[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_00]: If you find yourself saying, I really would like to read this book, it is available in your bookstore.
[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_00]: But we also have a lot of information that you can find in terms of Dr. Butterfield's website.
[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_00]: We also, of course, have information.
[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you'd like to order it in paperback, hardback, Kindle, it's all available there as well.
[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's take a break.
[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_00]: We will continue our conversation on five lies of our anti-Christian age right after this.
[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_01]: There is an old military saying, if you don't have communications, you don't have anything.
[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Good information is the key to success, not only for those in the military, but for all of us.
[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_01]: You can't take positive, productive, and helpful action if you don't have good information.
[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Point of View Radio's main role is to provide good information.
[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And we distribute that information not only here through our radio program, but online and through our various social media channels.
[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_01]: You know that big tech isn't exactly a supporter of what we do.
[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So you need to take intentional steps to keep in touch with us.
[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Make sure you follow us on Twitter, at Point of View RTS, which of course stands for Point of View Radio Talk Show.
[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_01]: At Point of View RTS.
[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Also, make sure you follow us on Facebook, Point of View Radio Talk Show.
[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_01]: We won't overwhelm you.
[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Usually just one post a day with information on our guests and what's important.
[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_01]: The information you need when you need it.
[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Point of View Radio Talk Show on Facebook and at Point of View RTS on Twitter.
[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Point of View will continue after this.
[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_01]: You are listening to Point of View.
[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_01]: The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station.
[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And now, here again, is Kirby Anderson.
[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Continuing our conversation today with Dr. Brasario Butterfield as we talk about five lies of our anti-Christian age.
[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And I thought for just a minute we would at least dip into the issue of transgenderism, since you mentioned that.
[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_00]: But I love the way you put it out.
[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_00]: You say, I've got a 1973 Oxford English Dictionary on my desk.
[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And guess what?
[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_00]: That word doesn't even appear there.
[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And we've said that since this program has been going on since 1972,
[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I think I could also say that when Marlon Maddox started Point of View more than 50 years ago,
[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_00]: we didn't think we'd be talking about things like transgenderism.
[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_00]: But one of the things I love most about your books and writing is you think about things in a new way.
[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And you have a chapter where you refer to that as the sin of envy.
[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And I never really thought about that before.
[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So let me let you start there because that is another way to think about this issue of transgenderism, isn't it?
[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it is.
[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_02]: But we have to back up just a little bit because another word that isn't in the OED on my desk from 73 is the word gender.
[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_02]: In the way we describe it today.
[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So the whole transgender movement works on a feminist principle that biological sex and cultural gender are two different things.
[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And the Bible condones that.
[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's just, first of all, is not true.
[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you could say they're two separate things insofar as, you know, you can parse that in this world.
[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_02]: But biblically speaking, there is no difference between sex and gender.
[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And that is because God made the pattern of sexual difference, male and female, for the purpose of procreation, which is heterosexuality.
[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And we also know from Genesis 1 that male and female are not only ontological, that is, you are made in the image of God as a man or as a woman, but also eternal.
[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_02]: That you will be the man that you were meant to be or the woman you were meant to be, that God made you to be in heaven or hell and Jerusalem.
[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's very serious.
[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_02]: But what transgenderism believes, it takes that feminist distinction between sex and gender, and it just gets rid of sex entirely.
[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And it introduces gender as a new category of personhood separate from the biological category of sex.
[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And we know that that is unnatural to the created order and harmful for the purposes for which God made us.
[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_02]: So homosexuality and transgenderism are alike in this one way.
[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_02]: They both are attacks and rebellion against the created order.
[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_02]: But they take, they kind of pitch their tent in two different places.
[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So with transgenderism, you have a lot of vocabulary, as you said.
[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, so much so that supposedly there are 78 gender pronouns right now.
[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And probably by the time you and I hang up the phone, there will be a thousand.
[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Because that's how crazy it is.
[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just, it's impossible.
[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_02]: But there are two ways that we predominantly talk about transgenderism.
[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_02]: One is a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria.
[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And that is, the medical analog is anorexia.
[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Someone with a body dysphoria is someone who has an irrational and delusional understanding of their own body.
[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, no one would say to an anorexic girl, hey, you just need a sticker and a parade, and maybe you should get liposuction, and you're right, you're fat.
[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody would say that.
[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_02]: That would be criminal.
[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And yet, that's what we do with this category, this dysphoric category of gender dysphoria.
[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_02]: But the more common issue is the ideology of transgenderism, which we are really seeing coming out of the government schools right now, in part because of Biden's anti-bullying legislation, which requires, and think about this.
[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Think about a 12-year-old girl who doesn't like her body.
[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And in order to not be a bully, she needs to be an ally to a transgender person, whatever that means.
[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And so it is really quite ideological.
[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And it tells young people, if there's a war between your body and your mind, your body can go.
[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And you can be, you can transform it.
[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And you can have everything you want.
[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And I would strongly recommend a recent podcast by Brandon Showalter called Generation Indoctrination.
[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_02]: It really hits this point hard, and your listeners will benefit from letting Brandon Showalter do the heavy lifting.
[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And so you don't have to.
[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But, yeah, really serious.
[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, and I remember back on my college campus days meeting a number of students who would try to keep me off campus.
[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And, oh, you know, she's transphobic.
[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'll sit down with this, you know, with a girl, and I'll say, what's the problem?
[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And she'll say, well, I'm really a boy.
[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, you're not using my pronouns and da, da, da, da, da.
[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And she, you know, and I'll say, well, why do you think you're a boy?
[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I feel it in my feelings.
[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I say, okay, so there's a war between what your body says and what your feelings say.
[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, why do you want to change your body?
[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Why not start by trying to change your feelings?
[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And often students would say to me, you mean I can do that?
[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, like seriously.
[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Wait, wait, you know, full stop, Rosaria.
[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_02]: You mean you can?
[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, absolutely.
[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go find a biblical counselor right now.
[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's deal with this.
[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you can.
[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you must.
[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Because you are made in the image of God as a woman.
[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And you can give all kinds of cosmetic surgery, but you can't change it.
[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But what you see is the world we live in is a world that is highly given to envy and to covetousness.
[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_02]: If you want it, you must obviously need it.
[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Because your feelings could never deceive you, says our lying world.
[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And so, you know, we know that envy, the Bible has very strong things to say about envy.
[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_02]: It's connected to covetousness.
[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_02]: It's fiercer than wrath.
[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_02]: It's rottenness to the bones, which is almost a poetic description of transgenderism, where the use of cross-sex hormones usually bleaches your body from the bone marrow that you need.
[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_02]: The last time I spoke at the local school board, which was last month, my 21-year-old son, who attends a public university, who comes with me as my bodyguard, said,
[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Mom, did you notice that all of the people taking cross-sex hormones are now walking with walkers and canes?
[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like that on my campus, too.
[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And then because he's a Christian, he also reminded me, and this is the world, that Jesus came to save.
[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And so we need to remember this.
[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Envy is not solved by giving into it.
[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't fix a person's envy.
[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's part of why you see the monetization of transgenderism and the exploitation of it on the part of big pharma.
[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_02]: If you have a 12-year-old girl who takes her first testosterone and she's hooked, you have a medical patient for life.
[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And don't tell me big pharma isn't looking at the dollar signs of that.
[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And we've seen some great stories about that from people that have honestly said that from podiums and things of that nature.
[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and detransitioners.
[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_02]: But what makes me very concerned is part of why we are where we are is because the church didn't have the courage and the conviction to say,
[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's the sin of envy.
[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a sin.
[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_02]: You're not a transgender Christian.
[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_02]: You can't be made in the image of God and uphold, you know, the world, the flesh, and the devil.
[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_02]: You're made in the image of God in the knowledge, righteousness, and holiness.
[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, you're a human being, so you are made in the image of God.
[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And therefore, we want you to grow in the knowledge, righteousness, and holiness of Jesus, which we do by repenting of the envy and getting the help that you need.
[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_02]: No one is suggesting that you shouldn't get counseling or comfort.
[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_02]: But comfort is not going to be found in what they call transitioning, whether it's social, hormonal, or surgical.
[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_02]: That is Gothic.
[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like my husband is a pastor.
[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_02]: He preached three sermons on the sin of transgenderism.
[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And one of my favorite lines from Kent's sermons is when he said,
[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like Dr. Frankenstein met Dr. Mangala, and they decided to go into business together.
[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, seriously now, no Christian should support that.
[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And yet, that is exactly the reason we are right where we are is because we caved on the gay issue.
[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And we said, Oh, sure, you can be a gay Christian.
[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you can be a gay Christian.
[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Just do this, that, or the other.
[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, just work it off in this way, that way, that way.
[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And so we caved there, and now we are in this place where major parachurch ministries have embraced what's called a side B or a revoice gay Christian paradigm.
[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And we're just extending it to transgenderism.
[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And what is horrible about this is we have brave detransitioners, people who have gone all the way through this, come to Christ, realize they were wrong, clawing their way back, trying to say to the church,
[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_02]: church, don't let anyone else do this.
[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Don't be okay with this.
[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_02]: You need to be in Jude 23 posture, saving someone as though in a fire, not acting as though this is a small matter.
[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_02]: This is huge.
[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And, again, I can't think of a population that more needs the gospel than the population who believes that they are transgender or their parents.
[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_02]: If you met some of the people I've met at school boards, I'm talking school board meetings, I'm talking about the man who castrated his 14-year-old son because he thought it was a good idea.
[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_02]: That man needs the gospel as does his son.
[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_00]: We'll take a break and continue our conversation right after this.
[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_01]: You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.
[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_00]: For a few more minutes, again, the book is Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age.
[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And, again, Dr. Rosario Butterfield with us.
[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And, Dr. Butterfield, you mentioned Frankenstein.
[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_00]: It made me smile because I know that your doctoral dissertation was on Mary Shelley, the teenage author of Frankenstein.
[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But, more importantly, I want to get to the idea of feminism because Mary Wollaston Craft is, of course, one of the founders, maybe the founder of feminism.
[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And that, in some respects, was one of your great heroes.
[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_00]: But, obviously, now you have some things that you want to say about how to think about feminism from a Christian point of view.
[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the book Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age talks about these as lies because they are lies.
[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, like most lies, there's a kind of half-truth to it that makes it very compelling and maybe even seductive.
[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_02]: But, yes, I lived as a feminist.
[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I was raised by a feminist.
[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I was in a family where if the name Planned Parenthood came up, everybody would sigh, a great sigh of relief because it was proof that we weren't some kind of third-world country.
[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm serious.
[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not kidding.
[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And so when I became a Christian, I had to look at everything, almost like I had to take all the file folders of my brain and dump them out on the floor of the office and just figure out, is there anything, Lord?
[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Is there anything I get to keep?
[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_02]: But what happened when I examined my feminist beliefs against the pages of Scripture was simply this.
[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_02]: If you trust that God knows what he's doing when he created women, then you do not need to add feminism to the gospel.
[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_02]: The gospel does not need a feminist rescue.
[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_02]: God is not some kind of crazy engineer who builds a bridge that falls into a river.
[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_02]: God builds a bridge to a perfect place.
[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And when God made women and gave her the creational capacity to bear children and nurture them, that necessarily meant that he valued highly what it means to be a caregiver.
[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And when God established the order of the family that we see in Ephesians and other places, he did not do that to hurt women or to deny that we have intelligence or capacity, but merely to say, and this is your lane.
[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_02]: This is your lane.
[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And you don't need somebody to defend you from living happily in this lane.
[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And so that book, Five Lives of Our Anti-Christian Age, I wrote it in part because I'm a teacher.
[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And it seems like our younger people today are terrified about biblical marriage.
[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Even 10 years ago, many of my students would say, I'd say, what do you want to be?
[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to be a housewife.
[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to bear children.
[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to be the wife of a godly husband.
[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And I want to raise my children.
[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to homeschool them.
[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And even now, I'm having people who are much older than my students.
[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I teach high school literature.
[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_02]: They're much older than my students, maybe even 10 years older, saying things like, I don't know, you know, maybe being single is better than being married.
[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And here's what I can tell you.
[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_02]: A world that grows in its homosexuality, transgenderism, and singleness is a world that is not being blessed by God.
[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And so, yes, so feminism declares that there is a difference between sex and gender.
[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And, yes, you know, in terms of your biological class, you are, as a woman, have the capacity to bear children.
[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, maybe you want to be an astronaut.
[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, how are you going to do that?
[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So what I'm saying is that it implies that somehow living according to the paradigm and even in the lane that God has given us, that somehow that means you're missing out.
[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And just the opposite is true.
[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Because what we've done is we've taken a whole generation of women and we've said, don't get married, don't have children.
[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And then often they're 40 and they say, hey, you know, I think I'm missing out on something.
[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, it's often a little bit late at that point to start a family.
[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_02]: So feminism is not rescuing the Bible.
[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not rescuing the gospel.
[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_02]: It's often creating a kind of envy that is very unhelpful.
[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_02]: That what we need are Christian men and women who take seriously their creational design and the gospel power of that.
[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Who love the Bible, who believe every word of it to be true and who are not tempted by the glitter and the false promises of the world.
[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_02]: In some ways I've had the opportunity to live.
[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like a cat.
[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I've lived many lives here.
[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And I will tell you that there has not been one day home with my children.
[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I have homeschool.
[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I have four children.
[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I've had a chance to homeschool them.
[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I have a grandson.
[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_02]: There is not one day at home, even the worst day at home, is better than any day I've spent in, you know, the power of a university.
[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And that is because living out my creational design is peaceful and it's safe and it's rewarding.
[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Fulfilling.
[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And fulfilling.
[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's what God has called me to do.
[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So I would just say that it just, it seems very strange to me.
[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that the rise of feminism, the rise of transgenderism, the rise of homosexuality, the rise of singleness are all things that share in this idea that sex and gender are different.
[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And that you basically get to just make your own party.
[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_02]: You get to determine these things.
[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, we can trust that God creates patterns for a purpose.
[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And also that growing in contentment with what God has called us to do is part of our godliness.
[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_02]: That godliness with contentment is great gain.
[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And it is a beautiful thing.
[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think we need more Titus 2 women who are just willing to come up alongside of young women and say, look, get a grip.
[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay?
[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Get a grip.
[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's going to be okay.
[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Titus 2.
[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Desire good things.
[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Let me just mention, just before I run out of time, that you do have a study guide.
[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And so if you find yourself saying, I'd like to dive deeper into some of the key points.
[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's questions and discussion and Bible verses.
[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_00]: There's a whole section.
[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_00]: There's an afterword.
[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And really, you've designed this for anybody to read, but especially for women.
[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_00]: But this would be just a great small group Bible study.
[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_00]: But I would also say to pastors, some of these issues, I think you should preach from the pulpit as well to really address the lies of our anti-Christian age.
[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So I appreciate you not only writing the book, but thank you for giving us an entire hour to talk about.
[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And it turns out only three of the five chapters.
[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_00]: But we did a pretty good job of covering at least some of the material that you have posted.
[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And that would make people want to go and get a copy of the book and learn more.
[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you, Kirby.
[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And thank you for what you do.
[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_02]: We need truth to be proclaimed from the mountaintops.
[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what you all do.
[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you for that.
[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a real pleasure to be with you and to have this conversation.
[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I've been following you for some time.
[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And we've mentioned you from time to time.
[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think this may be the first time we've had you on the program.
[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_00]: But maybe we can do that again.
[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But in case you didn't catch all of this, we have, first of all, the information about the book, Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age.
[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_00]: It is published by Crossway Books.
[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Look for it in your local bookstore.
[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_00]: But if you can't find it, we do have information about that on the website.
[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_00]: You can get it in hardback.
[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Now I believe it's in paperback.
[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And, of course, it's in Kindle.
[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to contact her, maybe you'd like to have Rosaria Butterfield speak.
[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you don't even have to know how to spell her name.
[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's rosaria-barterfield.com.
[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_00]: That is on the website as well.
[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And you can find all the information you need at pointofview.net.
[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Again, this is a very important issue.
[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you'd like to know more, of course, you can go to the website, which is pointofview.net.
[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Find out more about the book, Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age.
[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You can find out more about her.
[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_00]: We look forward to seeing you next time right here on Point of View.
[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Who can you trust?
[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Years ago, many of us could probably have provided a fairly long list.
[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_01]: But today, well, today it seems we almost can't trust anyone.
[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Educators don't even know what a woman is anymore.
[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Many so-called public servants have shown all they care about is themselves.
[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_01]: The FBI has been accused of bias, law-breaking, betrayal, and journalism.
[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_01]: It's largely corrupt with no Clark Kent standing up for truth, justice, and the American way.
[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_01]: All of this is why Point of View Radio is more important than ever.
[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And your part in supporting us is more needed than ever.
[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Do your part today in supporting trustworthy truth.
[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Stand with us and help push back the lies and the darkness.
[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Visit pointofview.net.
[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't put it off.
[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Take a moment right now and click on that big blue button that says Donate Now.
[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Or call to invest at 1-800-347-5151.
[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Pointofview.net and 800-347-5151.
[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Point of View is produced by Point of View Ministries.