Point of View October 14, 2026 – Hour 2 : Why Negative Political Ads Work

[00:00:04] Across America, Live, this is Point of View, Kirby Anderson. Second, now we're going to spend some time talking about negative political ads. Well, I've been telling you that we're going to get into that topic and we're going to cover it for about a half an hour and then I think we're going to reach our limit and we'll get into some other issues in the news,

[00:00:31] but we'll see what we can do because I am privileged to having met for the first time Sheila Rondu, who is actually the CEO of MagXP and she's a marketing strategist. Just got to find out that you had worked in the military, been in the military for many years, so again thank you for your service. But we're going to talk about these negative political ads and I will keep the phones open, so if you would like to make a comment, maybe you've, I'm sure you've had enough of these negative political ads

[00:00:59] or have some thoughts about that, feel free if you'd like to give us a call, 800-351-1212, that's 1-800-351-1212. Might take some phone calls, but Sheila, first of all, we have a link to your website in case people want to know more about the art of experiential marketing and the rest, but you also have been following this whole idea of negative campaigning and these negative ads,

[00:01:26] so share a little bit about why in the world are we just inundated right now with all these negative ads? Well, with the election coming up, it really comes down to what do the candidates think is going to work? What's going to move the needle? Well, and right now, diversity, the great divide is going rampant and they're pushing hard.

[00:01:51] Most people are somewhere in the middle and what they're looking for is to push people to one extreme or the other. And so if you can make the other person the bad guy, you get people involved because people get out to vote, because they see the other one as evil or bad, therefore they have to stop them.

[00:02:17] On the other side, if you have a candidate who people are saying things about and you don't believe it, it usually doesn't change your mind. But it gets you behind it to say, wait a minute, I've got to vote for this guy because they're bashing him. They're attacking him. And what's so interesting is sometimes, Sheila, what we find is that it doesn't force you to vote for the other person.

[00:02:43] A lot of people don't vote. And the drop off is significant because I think some strategists have said, well, I can't necessarily get any more votes for my candidate, but if I can just suppress the vote for the other candidate, that's sufficient enough. And let me put some definitions on the table because as we open up the phones, I suspect some people are going to use different examples of negative campaign ads.

[00:03:07] I think it's one thing to be quite legitimate and say this particular candidate, as we just talked about a minute ago, maybe voted to increase your taxes four or five times, you know, and if you want your taxes to be increased, vote for him or her. But I'm going to cut your taxes or not increase them. That seems like a pretty legitimate argument. But on the other hand, a lot of these negative ads say my candidate hates babies and kicks stray dogs.

[00:03:33] So, you know, you get sometimes they are all there. They even use different colors. And you are expert in marketing when it goes to black and white or when they have a caricature of the individual or now when they're using artificial intelligence. I think that goes way beyond the pale. And I think it's something that people would have never anticipated. And that's where we are right now, isn't it? We are. They have spent over 80 million dollars on AI ads. Yes, it's crazy.

[00:04:02] And it's so hard to substantiate what's real and what's not without really doing research. And very few of us have the luxury of spending a ton of time to do research. We already have full time jobs. But when it comes down to it, it's you have to spend a little bit of time and educate yourself and don't fall for the same garbage over and over again.

[00:04:26] Just because it's on social media, just because they talk about it on air does not make it true. Well, again, you work a lot in marketing because it used to be it was just television. And I'm the old guy around the table. So I can remember when they really started talking about how they sort of changed the campaigns first with John F. Kennedy and Richard Nixon later on with Nixon and Humphrey. And by the time you get to Ronald Reagan, you've got a Hollywood actor running for president. And so television was that medium.

[00:04:55] And there is a sense in which that works pretty well. But now you have social media. And Sheila, we have individuals complaining to me all the time that I don't even want to look at my cell phone because they're now sending me texts and videos and things of that nature. So this whole marketing strategy has expanded dramatically, hasn't it? It has. It's big business and they are out for anything and everything.

[00:05:22] At a certain point, it's who gets the most visibility. And sometimes the greatest stories are the ones that will get picked up because you can't buy enough media. The candidates don't have enough money to do it. So whatever they put out has to be engaging enough or revolting enough that the media picks it up and they get free.

[00:05:46] Well, and again, the free time gets back to social media because if you can create an ad that really works well and goes out there in social media, then it goes, as we say, viral. And so you're getting a lot of bang for almost no buck at all other than the production cost. So that, I think, is one of the reasons why more and more of us say we don't even want to look at our phones anymore because, indeed, if something goes viral, everybody's passing it on to everybody else.

[00:06:11] And if it's not a text, it's showing up in all sorts of favorite websites that you really like to go to but didn't want to have to make your way through some of those individuals that are asking for money or saying something negative about the other candidate. It's hard to even look at your phone anymore. I get so many texts every day from it. And then you look at the social media and it's in your feed. And it's never the nice stories. It's always the ugliness. Yes.

[00:06:41] Let me give you a couple of quotes here. One of the political strategists, Dan Fee, has been working on these campaigns for years. And he's been around for a long time. And he says the decision-making process you go through is what is going to say correct. The second is is there something that voters care about or would care about. And that, in some respects, negative advertising, I think, really gets us into the fact that this is a zero-sum game.

[00:07:07] When you're advertising a product or a service, you're just talking about why your service, your product, is superior. Sometimes you might say something negative about the other product, but it's, in some respects, an expanding pie. But with elections, it's a zero-sum game. My success is based upon your failure. And that's why I think we also have a lot of these negative ads, don't you think? It really is.

[00:07:30] If you can make the other person a less desirable candidate, then you can be the choice. And it's one or the other. You don't get both. Well, let's take a break. And when we come back, we have some other comments, obviously, about negative political ads. Maybe you've been waiting to maybe mention or even begin to expound on this whole issue. I thought if you would like to join the conversation, 1-800-351-1212.

[00:07:58] We'll talk a little bit more about how to evaluate some of those. And, of course, we've been trying to give you the tools. Last week or so, we talked about iVoterGuide.com, where you can find out about the candidates. Just a few minutes ago, we talked about the ballot guide looking at some of these tax and spend measures. And there are all sorts of other resources that are available.

[00:08:20] I might also mention that I posted a very good article of all places from the University of California, why negative campaigning works. And it goes into some detail. It was written a number of years ago. But it's just a recognition that as we've looked at some of this, this negative framing has really been very successful. And we'll talk a little bit more with Sheila, but we'd love to talk to you as well. 1-800-351-1212. We'll be right back.

[00:09:00] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson. Young men are struggling for many reasons, but one that deserves more attention is the increase in online gaming and gambling. Emily Harrison is concerned that we aren't providing the proper guidance to parents. In a therapeutic culture such as ours, she says, it is tempting to try to fix the problem from the top down.

[00:09:23] By prescribing antidepressants, ADHD meds, shaming men for addictions, or simply telling men to man up, we run the risk of failing to understand the root causes. First, we need to recognize the addictive nature of screen media. Boys and young men cannot be allowed to spend all day on these devices. One expert has started referring to them as the basement generation. Michelle Durst is the Associate Executive Director for the American Academy of Addiction Psychiatry.

[00:09:52] She explains that youth gaming and online gambling, especially mixed with AI, leaves her very concerned. There are red flags that this could look like the scale of opioid addiction. Second, parents need to get involved early. Melanie Hamp, founder of the organization Screen Strong, argued that parents of preschoolers need to be educated on the dangers facing boys today. We must start early. Third, parents need to see the link between gaming and gambling.

[00:10:19] As preteens enter adolescence already primed for addictive behaviors thanks to online gambling, they are then flooded with access to sports betting and casino games where users are enticed with free incentives and risk-free bets. Gaming and gambling addiction are significant threats to boys and young men. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:49] Go deeper on topics like you just heard by visiting pointofview.net. That's pointofview.net. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Back once again in studio with me for a few more minutes, Sheila Rondo. And again, if you'd like to know more about here, we have that link on the website. Might also mention we posted this one from the University of California. I guess it's actually UC Davis.

[00:11:19] But nevertheless, they talked about some of these kinds of phrases and nicknames. Richard Nixon, I mentioned before, during the 1950 campaign, he was called Tricky Dick, and that was certainly one that was there. Of course, you've had Donald Trump comes up with a lot, Crooked Hillary and Low Energy Jeb and some of those.

[00:11:42] But also the phrase death panels, interestingly enough, was something that almost killed the Affordable Care Act. So whether you're talking about individuals or even ballot measures or bills, it just seems to me that if you can come up with a negative statement or a nickname, it becomes a meme and it has a life of its own, doesn't it? It does. It's about having a brand.

[00:12:08] So you determine what the message point is, what you stand for, and who you deliver the message to. And then you let it go. Yeah. You see it time and time again with consumer-facing brands, and you see it over and over again in politics. If you can let somebody else amplify your voice, you're getting so much more for your advertising dollar.

[00:12:35] And the sad reality is that some of those nicknames so stay with those people that that nickname almost is one you think about when you hear them speak, and so it's pretty effective there. Let me take a phone call or two. We'll go out to, I think, in Savannah, Georgia. So let's go to James. James, what's your thought? Good day. So I'm wondering how we have to pick your race from somewhere across the country, from U.S. Senate on down to local people. We've got communists. We've got jihadis.

[00:13:05] We've got really anti-American people running in different capacities. And you could quote them or pick something up from their social media that they deleted because of how offensive it is. And how could you not come across as bitter or, I don't know, uncouth when you're just citing what some of these people have actually said?

[00:13:30] And that's why I want to make a distinction between giving factual information because, yes, we have found some of these individuals now say, well, I was quoted out of context. Or that was, if you will, woke 1.0, the phrases AOC used the other day or something like that. And I would say that that's very legitimate. But, yes, it sometimes can come off as being negative. But it's just getting the information out because they have made these statements.

[00:14:00] They have passed these bills. They have voted against these pieces of legislation. And I think that's legitimate political discourse. But when you go after them and their kids and all the other kinds of tricks that are used, maybe that goes beyond the pale. But I'm with you right now. We, as a matter of fact, I will use this as my commercial. For those of you watching online, this is our latest Outlook magazine, which is Socialist Surge is Happening in America.

[00:14:27] And if you go through this, you're going to see, of course, my comments about that as well as what's at stake. We have some of these other articles written by Liberty as well as by Gary Bauer. And I just think that is very legitimate. And that is, I think, part of the campaign agenda. And so, in some respects, we're going to be living with what many people will call negative ads. But I think getting good information out is kind of what you do in terms of marketing. Isn't it, Sheila?

[00:14:57] It is. If there is a story to be told, it needs to be told. It's how you tell it and whether or not it is factual and is it relevant. Well, let's get into some of the things that probably you've been marketing over the years. Obviously, you want to talk about the strengths and weaknesses, whoever your client is. But sometimes it is important to do a comparison. And I've never heard anybody compare, I get upset about comparing this bleach makes your clothes whiter and this one does not.

[00:15:25] Or this sponge is more effective than that one. Or this service of reducing the number of roaches around your house is better than the other one. That's just kind of comparison marketing, isn't it, and advertising. It is. Is it real and is it relevant? Yes. And, again, I think the place where, Sheila, people are starting to wonder, and you've got to think about this as well in your marketing field, is with AI. Do I believe everything I see?

[00:15:54] And we have the younger generation. We actually do these next-generation roundtables where they don't let old guys like me around the table. But a lot of young people around this table who talk about that. And I have to tell you, because of marketing, because of negative ads and everything else, the Generation Y, the Millennials, and now the Generation Z and even Generation Alpha, they are about the most skeptical people in the consumer world. And you're trying to market to some of those, aren't you? I am.

[00:16:21] And they are right to be critical and to be skeptical. They should question what is happening and where things are coming from. Whether it is a brand or it is a politician, they need to ask the questions. And what we're finding is that's also the demographic or the generation that does take the time, does the reviews, looks at reviews,

[00:16:47] but they are also the first ones to give a positive or a negative review depending on the customer service. That's called Yelp, right? There are a lot of places. Yelp is one of them, but yes. Yes. And they're very quick in that regard. Well, let me get into one or two other marketing issues because I've always wanted to ask a marketing strategist, which you are one, how many times do you have to hear a message before it resonates?

[00:17:14] Because one of the articles that I've posted here is about the repeating the message. Now, the negative side of that is you repeat a lie enough people think it's true. But even when you're trying to sell a product, I've found that a lot of people have not paid attention to advertising and things like that unless they have a need. For example, I always use this example. I never paid attention to a lawnmower ad until one day I was going to buy a lawnmower.

[00:17:40] I hardly ever pay attention to the car ads until all of a sudden I'm thinking, maybe I need to get a new car. So part of it has to do whether it's top of mind. But also, we live in a world today where I think entirely too many of us are confronted by this cacophony of voices. And so you're trying to break through some of that, aren't you? We are. And you have to understand that it's not just one ad over and over again.

[00:18:08] It's hearing that message in multiple places because you don't know when someone is most open to hearing your message. So in the old sales books, they used to tell you that somebody needed to hear your message or needed to learn about you eight times, eight to 12 times before someone would actually take action or felt like you were familiar enough that they would do business with you. And it's kind of the same thing.

[00:18:36] You hear messages and you don't think about them, but you hear them enough and in enough different places. And at some point it clicks. And, again, it's usually between that eight and 12. Again, I remember that eight and 12. But also that's the other part that you've mentioned. And that is even here at Point of View, I keep explaining to people that, yes, we have a two-hour radio program. Yes, we have a web page. We also have multiple podcasts. You know, you have one where you have the podcast of the program.

[00:19:06] We have Megan, who I don't think you've had a chance to meet today, who does social media, who does a highlights of the podcast on, again, Spotify. And then we also have, of course, I mentioned Liberty's name just a minute ago. We have also the Know Why podcast. And so in some respects, if you're seeing it in print, you're seeing it in some of these booklets we have, you see it in the Outlook magazine, you're hearing it. Then it finally gets in. And that's really kind of the marketing 101, isn't it? It is.

[00:19:35] You have to find different avenues, different channels for people to receive your message because the message doesn't land with everyone in the same way and in the same places. Well, again, one of the things just before I take a break is mention that we do have your website here, The Art of Experiential Marketing. And that will take you to, of course, some of the material that's on Amazon.

[00:20:02] And so if people want to get your book, if they would like to know more about what you're doing, I think that would be very helpful. And all of us are in the process of marketing and promoting and advertising and selling. So, again, I just wanted to get to meet you today. And I guess I have to thank Jeff Crilley for that connection. You and I both have that connection as well as Derek. Derek, so thank you for being here and thank you for opening up that can of worms called Negative Campaigning. And I look forward to the next opportunity. Thank you so much.

[00:20:32] We're going to take a break. And when we come back, I'll get into a couple of other issues. Our friend John Stossel has done a very good video that I did want you to know about. And so we have that on the website. We also will get into a couple of other issues, including a very important commentary that I've done on the issue of gaming and gambling. Young people are gambling, especially young men, gambling at a rate just off the chart. So we do want to talk about some of those issues as well. But, again, if you'd like to know more about Sheila, you can go to the website, pointofview.net.

[00:21:01] You can find out more about her book. You can find out more about the organization, MogXP. And all of that is at the website, pointofview.net. But let's take a break. By the way, I'll keep the phones open. Maybe some of you didn't want to call while she was on because you wanted to hear everything she had to say. But we'll keep the phones open in case you'd like to join. 1-800-351-1212. We'll be right back.

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[00:22:54] You are listening to Point of View. The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now, here again, is Kirby Anderson. Back once again, let's see if we can focus on a couple of other issues in the news. One of those is the lack of affordability.

[00:23:22] And we, of course, have actually focused some time and attention on that. And one of our Outlook magazines was on that subject. But to be fair to both Republicans and Democrats for a moment, one of the major reasons for the lack of affordability is that our dollars are worth less. And that is something that I want to keep trying to pound into people's heads because there is this tendency to say, no, it's the Republicans' fault. It's the Democrats' fault.

[00:23:51] Well, in some respects, it's all of government and governmental forces' fault because we have individuals in government that want to spend more than they take in. And as a result, it is very difficult to run re-election if you start talking about cutting things, as we talked about with Matthias in the first hour. And so as a result, we spend more than we take in, at least at the federal level. So the only way the federal government can deal with it,

[00:24:19] since it doesn't have to have a balanced budget like all the states do, is it has to print money. And so I've got an article coming out next week, a commentary based on the new book by Porter Stansberry, which just, again, takes you through the story of John the grandfather born in 1938. When he dies, his estate has three-quarters of a million dollars, a paid-off house, IRA that was paid up,

[00:24:44] and was able to pay for all four college-age kids to go through school. His son, who's a little more tight in terms of his abilities, but has a degree in mechanical engineering, I should say, is at the age of 60. But even though he might retire in the next few years, two of his kids are moving home because they can't afford a house. And then tell the story of the oldest son, or this would be the grandson of the first one,

[00:25:14] graduated from Penn State with a master's degree in computer science, making lots of money, but the dollars are worth less. He can't afford to buy a home and has student loans of $47,000. And you can see, just looking at the three generations of these individuals growing up in Pennsylvania, how each generation did worse than the previous generation. And all three of these men had a good work ethic.

[00:25:43] They were very willing to apply themselves, but the difference is the dollars that they had in their wallet, in their pockets, were not worth the same amount. And so as the costs went up, wages and salaries did not keep pace. And this is, I think, the primary reason for this affordability gap. And I think most people right now are kidding themselves

[00:26:09] if they think that somehow electing a democratic socialist is going to be the solution. Again, for those of you watching online, I'll hold up the issue, the November issue. It's just now going out, so be looking for it in your mailbox. You haven't received it yet, but it has the title, The Socialist Surge is Happening in America. And so I spend some time talking about, first of all, how there's been a push for socialism.

[00:26:35] Then I talk about what's at stake if, indeed, these individuals are elected. And we've got some of their pictures. Then, of course, we have Liberty talking about some of the ballot issues. We just today spent some time talking about some of the financial issues, but she also talks about these abortion issues in Virginia, Nevada, Idaho, and Missouri. And so that's a very important issue.

[00:27:02] And then our final article there is from our good friend Gary Bauer, The Socialist Threat is Real. And so this is, I think, a warning about what we are dealing with. And James, a few minutes ago, I think, reminded us of some of the individuals that are running and some of the things that they're saying right now and why we should be very skeptical. And it really is hard that even as you start quoting what they said, that's seen as a negative ad.

[00:27:30] But I think otherwise, if you don't quote what they said and the mainstream media protects them and covers for them, I think you have no other choice than to say, here are the statements these individuals have made. Here are the bills that they have sponsored. Here are the bills they tried to defeat. Here are what they would plan to do if they were elected. And here's what I plan to do. I think that is all very legitimate in terms of a campaign.

[00:27:58] So if nothing else, that is one of the reasons why we wanted to focus a fair amount of time and attention today on the midterm elections. We'll get into it again probably on Friday. But real quickly, before we take our next break, let me just mention that my commentary today has the title Gaming and Gambling. Now, if you listen to this program any length of time, you know that we produced a booklet on gambling. And I did it in large part because the younger you are, the more likely you are to be involved in gambling.

[00:28:28] And I do believe that it's all connected. If you're convinced that the dollars you have in your pocket aren't worth as much, and if you're convinced that it's harder and harder to get ahead, then we have especially some of the younger generation, so-called Generation Z, seeing that their, if you will, financial strategy is to be involved in gambling. And the article I have here not only reminds us of that, but also makes a connection that I really hadn't thought about,

[00:28:57] and that is the fact that if you have young men in particular growing up with gaming, and even some young men doing gaming as well, video gaming, that as a result, it makes it easier. Gaming is almost like a, if you will, an entry drug into gambling. And so that's something that I really hadn't paid attention to.

[00:29:21] And so this particular article I point to from Emily Harrison is concerned that if parents right now aren't paying attention, she says, in this therapeutic culture such as ours, it is tempting to try to fix the problem from the top down by prescribing antidepressants, ADHD, meds, shaming men for addictions, simply telling men to man up. We really fail to understand the root causes. And so she says,

[00:29:51] we have to start first with the understanding that we have this addictive nature of screen media. Boys and young men in particular sometimes can spend almost all day on these devices. By the way, she talks about the men primarily, but that's true of the women too. And as a result, one expert even began to refer to these men. Many of them are young men. We're talking about 7 million individuals, young men who are at age,

[00:30:20] prime age for working, who are not working and not looking for work. There are some of the experts refer to them as the basement generation. And then when you start seeing that youth gaming and online gambling are, in a sense, coming together, she says, at least one of the experts from the executive director for the American Academy of Addiction Psychology said,

[00:30:46] there are some real red flags because it almost looks like opioid addiction. And so then if you start recognizing that sometimes at a very young age, sometimes even preschoolers are allowed to use their parents' phone or they get an iPad or something like that, we for all of their formative years really, in a sense, addict them to and get them addicted to some of these screens.

[00:31:15] And so then the link between gaming and gambling is pretty straightforward because, because again, to quote Emily Harrison, as pre-teens enter adolescence, already primed for addictive behaviors, thanks to online gaming, then they are flooded with access to sports betting and casino games, where users are enticed with free incentives and risk-free bets. So you can begin to see that that's an issue as well.

[00:31:45] So I think we are going to probably spend a fairly significant amount of time not only talking about this issue of gambling, and in particular sports gambling, but now today you can gamble anything, you know, and gamble for various issues in the culture and all that, but also to back it up and recognize that there almost seems like gaming is an entry-level drug into gambling and something to really think about in the future.

[00:32:14] So that's my commentary for today. If you have not read it, you can go to the website, pointofview.net, scroll down to a section right beneath the Defending Freedom's Legacy, and you'll see the one on gaming and gambling. And if you click on there, there's a place where you can also, if you would want to sign up to receive it, that is certainly an opportunity there as well. If you'd like to hear the commentary, it's there as well. Or if you would like to share it, there's a button for share.

[00:32:44] Of course, there's one for you to print it out or to create a PDF. All of it is available. It's there for you to use. We want you to be able to begin using that in an effective way. Maybe share it with somebody that needs to hear that particular commentary or to read it. Maybe share it with people in your Sunday school class. We want to be a resource to you here at Point of View. But let's take a break. When we come back,

[00:33:10] John Stossel talks about this issue of local governments in particular, creating these outrageous fines, and seeing this as another way to fund the government. So again, this piece on fines and government is on the website. John Stossel has a very good video on this, which was pretty shocking to me, even though I've been in this business for a while. There were some things I'd never heard before. So we'll come back and talk briefly about that.

[00:33:38] And then we'll get ready for tomorrow's program, which I'm looking forward to as well. All that coming up right after this. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Back once again, let's, if we can, for real quickly mention that tomorrow,

[00:34:07] going to be talking about a couple of issues. Our good friend Erwin Lutzer has put together a book, Marx and Moody, two contemporaries, two gospels, two tombstones. And again, just a great resource to remind you of, of course, the influence of Karl Marx during the 19th century, as well as the influence of D.L. Moody during the 19th century. What a great comparison. And again, just a very relevant topic when you have individuals right now calling for a

[00:34:37] Marxist re-evaluation, maybe even a Marxist transformation of America. So that will be our guest. The first hour, second hour, going to be talking with Joel Noble, who is a director of public policy at Samaritan's ministry, which interesting enough, even though you would think he would be talking about what Samaritan's is doing, which is a great ministry, by the way, and we'll certainly give you a chance to talk about how that can be a health sharing opportunity for you. The topic is abortion is not healthcare.

[00:35:07] And I think it's sort of obvious, but it's just a great opportunity to get into some of these really important issues that we talk about every single day here on point of view. And of course, also educate you about the fact that we need to find a Christian alternative. And quite frankly, some of you probably do get your health insurance from organizations that actually do provide abortion services. And that's something we'll get into as well. If indeed you really want to be pro-life,

[00:35:35] I think you should really evaluate where your dollars go. And so we'll be talking about that tomorrow. And of course, just getting into the pro-life issue. And of course, it's perfect setup for the very good article that Liberty McCarter wrote for the November issue in our outlook magazine on the issue of four different places in four different States where the issue of pro-life is on the ballot. But let me wind down for today with a very good piece by John Stossel.

[00:36:05] I oftentimes watch the video and then I look for when his column comes out and he says, imagine getting a bill from your local government for $900,000 because they see a greenhouse on your property and assume that you're growing marijuana without a permit. By the way, they were not, but that doesn't matter. Imagine the government demanding $400,000. This is from a man that originally came from Turkey,

[00:36:33] but was here in the United States because you didn't know that you had to fill out a single page form or imagine a $100,000 fine for parking your car on your own property on the grass, but still nevertheless. And it's just a good example of what we are dealing with in some cases in which heavy handed bureaucrats, sometimes those who were even elected to office are nevertheless seeing this idea of

[00:37:01] excessive fines as a way to fund the local government. Now, the constitution, if you're not familiar in, um, again, the eighth amendment, of course, it talks about cruel and unusual punishment, but it also talks about the fact that government may not impose excessive fines. I think any fair minded person hearing what I just said would say those are obviously excessive fines. And this is what happens, he says,

[00:37:29] when some bureaucrats savor their power and act like pirates. And he says there is a hope for remedy because, and we will be talking about some of this with our two legal experts on Friday. We do have some cases that are finally making their way to the Supreme court. But let me use a couple of examples in particular. One that is just very troubling. And this is for our listeners out of the state of Alaska,

[00:37:56] because you have this one individual that had worked as a pilot in Alaska for 30 years until one day state troopers stopped his plane and said, I have nothing to hide. And they found that one of the women had boxes of groceries and had beer. Okay. What's the problem? Well, turns out that a beer, at least in some places is illegal. And so now he's getting charged with, I know you can't believe this, but it is true,

[00:38:26] convicted of bootlegging. And somehow he was supposed to then search the groceries and determine whether or not she were, he was going to be flying her into a town that is a dry town. And again, this is, of course, as ridiculous as you can possibly imagine. And of course, that gets you into, of course, one of the cases going to support the Supreme court.

[00:38:51] Another one involved this retired professor and the IRS demanded he pay $400,000 because he didn't fill out this particular form because he's originally from Turkey. Understand that. But it's not like he, in any significant way, was manipulating anything. And he really doesn't have $400,000 to his name, as far as I can determine. But nevertheless, there's another one of those cases. Then, you know,

[00:39:20] you get some other individuals, partially because, let me finish his story real quickly. His unpaid taxes, because they brought all these levies, just mounted more and more. And you keep thinking, okay, certainly there's a judge that would say, okay, enough is enough. Nope. They mentioned one of the magistrates there in Northern California said, well, no, the government suffered a significant loss, so he's got to pay that. And then you got the one, of course, I was alluding to.

[00:39:49] That's in Humboldt County, California. California, the bureaucrats were taking aerial photos of people's property. Now, if you've ever been to that part of Northern California, where you've got those huge sequoia trees and furs and everything else, Douglas fir and pines and all sorts of things, anyway, and they were trying to find unlicensed marijuana farms. So, they see some greenhouses, well, guess what? That has to be marijuana. No,

[00:40:18] they were actually growing vegetables. It's a little harder to grow vegetables up there in the Northwest corner of California than it is, say, in the Central Valley. And so, again, you have these lawsuits that have just unfolded time and time again. So, these are cases that are a little different than the ones we oftentimes talk about on Friday, which have to do with religious liberty. But, fortunately, there is a group called the Institute for Justice,

[00:40:46] and they have been involved in some of these cases. And I think just illustrate again why we should pay attention. And so, as he ends the piece, he says, why do governments fight to keep outrageous fines that punish largely innocent people? And his guest says, well, unlike other forms of punishment, fines make government money. The prosecutor's office, the state troopers, they get to keep the proceeds.

[00:41:13] And it's become an abusive system because there's every incentive to prosecute and every incentive to levy fines that we would say using the constitutional prohibition in the Eighth Amendment would be excessive fines. So, again, as John Stossel said, I invited the heavy fining judges and government lawyers to appear in my video, but none were agreeing to talk about that. And so, he says,

[00:41:43] you know, the problem is, bureaucrats are always going to want more money, and that's why the Constitution is protecting us against excessive fines. And he says, I trust the Supreme Court to put a stop to these abuses. We will be talking about a couple of the cases are going to be going to the Supreme Court. Some are already on the docket, and so we'll talk about what that means with a couple of our guests. We have one guest from First Liberty Institute,

[00:42:10] another guest from Alliance Defending Freedom, and I think you will really appreciate some of those conversations as well. But let me very quickly, before we run out of time, mention one more time, in case you didn't happen to hear the first part of the program, we spent some time talking about this budget, or if you will, ballot guide about budgets and taxes, spending, and the rest.

[00:42:33] We have 59 different statewide measures in 24 states that affect your finances. So, if you'd like to know more, that information is on the website. We did, of course, also talk about negative ads, but also wanted you to find some of these articles. about the wealth tax in California, why negative campaigning works, and of course, this piece we just talked about with John Stossel on government and fines. As always,

[00:43:02] I want to thank Megan for her help engineering the program. Steve, I should say, Jarek, thank you for producing the program. See you back here on Thursday, right here, from Point of View. In 19th century London, two towering historical figures did battle, not with guns and bombs, but words and ideas. London was home to Karl Marx, the father of communism, and legendary Baptist preacher, Charles Spurgeon.

[00:43:31] London was in many ways, the center of the world, economically, militarily, and intellectually. Marx sought to destroy religion, the family, and everything the Bible supports. Spurgeon stood against him, warning of socialism's dangers. Spurgeon understood, Christianity is not just religious truth, it is truth, for all of life. Where do you find men with that kind of wisdom, to stand against darkness today? Get the light you need,

[00:44:01] on today's most pressing issues, delivered to your inbox, when you sign up for the Viewpoints commentary, at pointofview.net, slash sign up. Every weekday, in less than two minutes, you'll learn how to be a person of light, to stand against darkness, in our time. It's free, so visit pointofview.net, slash sign up, right now. pointofview.net, slash sign up.

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