Point of View October 11, 2024 – Hour 2 : Weekend Edition

[00:00:04] Across America, Live, this is Point of View. And now, Dr. Merrill Matthews.

[00:00:20] And welcome back to Point of View. I'm Merrill Matthews, sitting in for Kirby Anderson today.

[00:00:24] And this is our Weekend Edition, where we cover things that happened over the past week.

[00:00:29] And joining me in studio, Kelly Shackelford. He is President and CEO of First Liberty Institute.

[00:00:35] And Jeremy Dice, he is Senior Counsel with First Liberty.

[00:00:38] And we ended the last hour talking a bit about the new film we've got coming out on Coach Kennedy, hitting 2,000 movie theaters today.

[00:00:48] So if you need something to do this weekend, you've got your assignment. Coach Kennedy's film.

[00:00:54] But you're also working on one with the Alaskan Airlines. Now, what's happening with Alaska Airlines?

[00:00:59] Well, this is a pretty amazing case, but I think it's not a shock to most listeners,

[00:01:04] because this is the kind of woke corporation situation against Christians that we're seeing in a lot of places.

[00:01:11] I think there's starting to be a backlash, and I think a lot of the corporations are starting to back down now.

[00:01:17] Yes.

[00:01:18] But this is one of the very first major lawsuits on this.

[00:01:21] And this is, Alaska Airlines got behind a bill, a federal bill that has not been passed.

[00:01:29] I don't think it will be passed. That's very extreme. It's called the Equality Act.

[00:01:34] And what it says is that in every federal law, religious liberty is to be stripped out of the law as protection if there's an LGBT issue.

[00:01:44] And so it just kind of removes religious freedom.

[00:01:48] And because of that, it's so extreme, it hasn't passed, and I don't think it will.

[00:01:52] But Alaska Airlines just thought it was great.

[00:01:55] And so they sent out to their employees communication saying, you know, we think this is great.

[00:02:03] We want you to get behind it.

[00:02:05] And then they said, and we would love your feedback.

[00:02:09] Well, two of the flight attendants thought they really meant what they said.

[00:02:13] So they sent feedback saying, you know, we have real concerns.

[00:02:16] And they didn't know each other.

[00:02:18] They were just separately.

[00:02:19] You know, this could take away religious freedom.

[00:02:21] It could affect my church.

[00:02:22] It could affect all kinds of religious freedom situations.

[00:02:25] And so what did Alaska Airlines do?

[00:02:28] They fired them.

[00:02:29] So it's like, we want your feedback unless it's Christian feedback.

[00:02:33] And then you're fired.

[00:02:34] And so we said, you can't do that.

[00:02:37] And, you know, we uncovered some pretty strong evidence in the litigation as well, some really ugly stuff against them because they're Christians.

[00:02:48] And so, but unfortunately for them, you know, Alaska Airlines is not in a very friendly place to Christians, conservatives.

[00:02:58] So we had to start out in, it was a Seattle or Portland.

[00:03:01] I'm trying to remember.

[00:03:02] It was either Seattle or Portland.

[00:03:03] I'm blanking on it myself now.

[00:03:04] I know.

[00:03:04] Sorry.

[00:03:05] It's one of the two, which either one is no good.

[00:03:07] And so they got a bad, bad opinion below, just like Coach Kennedy, by the way, which is a Seattle area.

[00:03:14] And and so we're now going to the federal court of appeals to say you can't do this.

[00:03:19] You can't discriminate against people in the workplace because of their religion.

[00:03:23] And we have a new Supreme Court victory from just a year and a half ago that really increases the protection now in the workplace for people of faith.

[00:03:31] So that is a case to be watching.

[00:03:34] We're going to the federal court of appeals and we have to, we'll go to the Supreme Court.

[00:03:38] But it's this is important because, you know, we were getting close to where there were almost, you know, wasn't a single place that a Fortune 500 company would allow somebody of faith to rise up if they were open about their faith.

[00:03:55] And I think that's beginning to change.

[00:03:57] I think the sort of woke ideology in corporations as being something that was kind of in is kind of becoming out more.

[00:04:05] Yes, I think that's right.

[00:04:07] You're seeing that increasingly from the various stories of companies are just saying we're mostly quietly.

[00:04:13] Yes.

[00:04:15] And so this but this case is about, well, if they want to do it, if they want to force people to violate their faith, they want to adopt this new corporate religion and attack people.

[00:04:25] Of other of other faiths.

[00:04:28] Can they do it?

[00:04:29] Can they do it?

[00:04:29] That's what this case is about in Alaska Airlines and people can go to first liberty dot org, our website, and they can look they can look at the briefs.

[00:04:36] They can look at all the stuff on the case.

[00:04:38] It's an example of one of a number of these kinds of cases we have.

[00:04:41] But this is one of the ones going higher.

[00:04:44] We've got another one that we're about to file in the Supreme Court in the next week with Fire Chief Hiddle.

[00:04:50] That's got some similar things.

[00:04:52] But it's an important one because this involves a private company that is engaging in religious discrimination.

[00:04:59] Well, Jeremy, Kelly mentioned the Supreme Court and they started back this week and they're hearing several cases.

[00:05:05] And we've got a link to a Forbes article there, which lists some of them, one on ghost guns, on transgender rights, environmental impacts, vaping and Mexican drug cartels.

[00:05:17] And I was curious about what the Mexican drug cartels was.

[00:05:20] And apparently the government of Mexico is suing some of our gun owners or gun companies saying that your guns are ending up in Mexico with our cartels.

[00:05:29] And so they're suing the gun companies.

[00:05:32] But and I guess it may be that you all end up with a piece, something before the Supreme Court, before the term is out.

[00:05:38] But what do you think about the Supreme Court at a time when it is under unprecedented criticism?

[00:05:44] Well, they're also under unprecedented need on a lot of these things.

[00:05:48] You mentioned a couple of cases there that are critical value.

[00:05:50] The Second Amendment clearly is in play with the ghost gun case.

[00:05:54] The the question about the transgender rights one is going to be a fascinating one to watch.

[00:05:58] And that's going to be it's a very troubling case.

[00:06:01] Right. Who has the right to be able to decide how can the state prevent these transgender surgeries that are happening?

[00:06:09] Do they support the parents? It's a tough case all the way around and a product of our modern era, I'm afraid.

[00:06:16] I think you're right there. There could be or at least we're going to try to have a couple of cases from the Supreme Court from first liberty arrive at the Supreme Court of the United States this year.

[00:06:24] Those are all being worked on right now.

[00:06:27] So I don't think we can really kind of talk about them quite yet.

[00:06:29] But I'll just say stay tuned.

[00:06:31] I think there's several cases that we've got in the hopper ready to be able to ready to file.

[00:06:35] And they may even be heard yet this term sometime later in the spring.

[00:06:39] You know, on the transgender rights issue, I've had Jordan Campbell on before to talk about his because he's set up a law firm that is representing a lot of minors, suing various health care clinics and the doctors for taking minors.

[00:06:54] And in essence, I think sort of pushing them along, I think, is the general sense of it.

[00:06:59] Do you have any any sense of how this is going to go?

[00:07:03] I don't. I have a sense of where I'd like it to go, but I really don't know where it's going to go because it's such a it's a very novel issue.

[00:07:10] And one that is I'm going to use a very distinct and serious legal term to the justices is very icky.

[00:07:18] They don't really want to do that in law school.

[00:07:20] Yeah, it was in the fourth year of law school.

[00:07:22] But the no, they really just don't want to deal with it.

[00:07:25] They'd rather have this thing blow over in the cultural storm.

[00:07:29] And frankly, I think I empathize with the Supreme Court on that point because I, too, would like to see it blow over in the cultural storm.

[00:07:35] But unfortunately, it's going to require some judicial intervention.

[00:07:38] So hopefully they'll take that up, examine it closely and the correct side will prevail.

[00:07:44] And, you know, Kelly, you have parents who are bringing their kids to these doctors and clinics.

[00:07:48] And the parents, I think, in many cases feel like they're helping the kids.

[00:07:53] They've been told if they don't do something, the child may end up committing suicide.

[00:07:57] That puts the parent in a really difficult spot.

[00:07:59] Yes. I mean, that's what's happened.

[00:08:01] A lot of times they're being scared or frightened and they're being told if you don't do this, you'll be responsible for your child's death, which the facts don't bear out, by the way.

[00:08:11] When you look at a lot of these studies, a lot of what's been doing in other countries that are not allowing this because of what the evidence is showing as to the lack of success.

[00:08:20] So it's and those studies, by the way, are all being filed to the Supreme Court.

[00:08:24] They're seeing this argument because if legislatively it's just a disagreement about where to go policy wise, then that's that's really the court has to defer to that and let that go unless there's some violation of something.

[00:08:38] Stay with us. We'll be back on point of view in just a minute.

[00:08:57] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:04] You're probably aware that Americans distrust science and science magazines more than in the past, but you may not know how much that is evaporated back in 1975 when I was finishing a graduate degree in science.

[00:09:16] Gallup documented that most Americans trusted science.

[00:09:19] In fact, Republicans trusted science more than Democrats did.

[00:09:22] And 72 percent to 67 percent.

[00:09:25] Republican confidence in science has dropped to 45 percent by 2021.

[00:09:29] Christian Snyder argues politicized science may make us sicker.

[00:09:33] He reminds us of the tactic used against President George W.

[00:09:36] Bush when his opponents argued that his common sense regulations of fetal stem cells were hurting and killing people.

[00:09:43] He quoted from colonist Charles Krutthammer, who said he had never seen a more loathsome display of demagoguery and added that hope is good.

[00:09:51] False hope is bad.

[00:09:53] Americans don't even trust science journals, which have become political.

[00:09:58] Scientific American has started endorsing presidential candidates.

[00:10:01] Kamala Harris this year and Joe Biden four years ago.

[00:10:04] Heather McDonald of the Manhattan Institute further documents how science has become political in her book when race trumps merit.

[00:10:11] She explains in a recent lecture that the American Medical Association insists that medicine is characterized by white supremacy.

[00:10:18] The Smithsonian Institution announced that an emphasis on the scientific method and an interest in cause and effect relationships are part of totalitarian whiteness.

[00:10:28] We would all benefit of science and science magazines got back to doing science and medicine and stop following the woke trends in society.

[00:10:35] This politicized science will make us sicker.

[00:10:38] I'm Kirby Anderson and that's my point of view.

[00:10:46] For a free copy of Kirby's booklet, A Biblical View on Antisemitism, go to viewpoints.info.com.

[00:10:54] Viewpoints.info.com.

[00:10:58] You're listening to Point of View, your listener supported source for truth.

[00:11:04] And we're back on point of view and we were talking about the Supreme Court and especially a transgender case that might come before the Supreme Court and some of the issues they may have to deal with there.

[00:11:13] But it reminded me that I saw an article today in the New York Post and I'm reading the headline here.

[00:11:19] Federal relief, federal relief workers say FEMA is moving away from helping greatest number of people to LGBTQ disaster equity in a woke webinar.

[00:11:31] And so these were FEMA employees and they were talking about who they should be targeting first when trying to provide relief.

[00:11:38] And this group of six people from FEMA apparently said we need to move away from trying to help the people who are in the most need to people who are of LGBT background because they've been discriminated against for so long that they need to be – we sort of need to – affirmative action in a sense moving towards them.

[00:12:01] And I'm going to quote here from the seminar that they had LGBTQIA people and people who have been disadvantaged already are struggling.

[00:12:11] They already have their own things to deal with.

[00:12:14] So when you add disaster on top of that, it's just compounding itself, said one of the people there.

[00:12:19] So I think we need – that's why we need to be enthusiastic, they say, about helping them first.

[00:12:26] And that's not going to the people who are in most need but the people who have been disadvantaged in the past, though you don't always know that, and helping them more.

[00:12:36] Anyway, the Supreme Court is under a challenge right now.

[00:12:40] You've been working with Supreme Coup.

[00:12:42] What are we seeing right now?

[00:12:43] Any developments there?

[00:12:44] Yeah, most people are probably not aware listening to this, but, I mean, there is a massive attack on the Supreme Court.

[00:12:55] Essentially, you've got people who don't like the overturning of Roe v. Wade and maybe one or two other opinions, and for that reason, they want to dismantle the Supreme Court.

[00:13:06] They have proposed bill after bill.

[00:13:09] The last one was just over a week ago to add justices to take the court to 15 so they could just pack it with a bunch of extreme left-wing justices.

[00:13:21] They've got a term limits idea where they purge the conservatives off the court and then add on new liberals.

[00:13:29] Right.

[00:13:30] And they've got a lot of ideas.

[00:13:31] One is an ethics code where other people tell the court which things they can sit on.

[00:13:38] Again, it's all the same.

[00:13:40] It's manipulation.

[00:13:41] It's an attempt to really destroy the independence of the judiciary.

[00:13:46] And most people think, well, I just don't see this happening.

[00:13:51] It could happen.

[00:13:52] It could happen very soon.

[00:13:54] Now, it can't happen right now because we have a divided government.

[00:13:57] We have a House that is Republican.

[00:14:00] We have a Senate that's Democrat.

[00:14:02] We have a president that's Democrat.

[00:14:03] You can only do it if you have one party control all three.

[00:14:06] But this is being talked about heavily.

[00:14:10] I mean heavily.

[00:14:11] And what most people don't understand is you can pack the court.

[00:14:15] You can add five, 10, 15 justices with just a majority vote.

[00:14:20] It's not a constitutional amendment.

[00:14:21] There's nothing in our Constitution about how many justices.

[00:14:24] So literally four months from now, we could be dealing with this.

[00:14:29] And the problem is everywhere they've done this, Venezuela, Argentina, you name it, your country is over.

[00:14:34] Yeah, you're done.

[00:14:35] As soon as they do this, you do not have the rule of law.

[00:14:39] With us, we have three branches of government.

[00:14:41] One of those branches, the judiciary, collapses underneath the political branch, the legislative branch.

[00:14:47] And whatever right you think you have, you don't because they can just add justices until they take that away.

[00:14:53] And so it is really crucial that people pay attention to this.

[00:14:58] This is something that every candidate running for office in the Senate, in the House, and presidency should be forced to answer.

[00:15:05] You know, are you in favor of restructuring the Supreme Court and packing the Supreme Court?

[00:15:12] We've created a website called SupremeCoup, C-O-U-P.com, that has a lot of the data on what's going on, has stories, and it has what people can do.

[00:15:21] You know, how they can ask their candidates these questions, how they can put – we have memes and things they can put on their own to educate other people.

[00:15:29] But this is really serious because this can happen so quickly, and most people are not paying attention to it.

[00:15:36] And it is really ratcheting up if you watch every day the bills, the attacks.

[00:15:43] They just arrested a guy within the last couple of weeks who, because of all this, has been really geared up, and he was planning to assassinate six of the justices.

[00:15:53] So it's – this is real dangerous what's going on.

[00:15:58] And you destroy the legitimacy of our courts, and you lose the rule of law.

[00:16:02] And, Jeremy, he mentioned the Democrats in this, and in the past, many of the Democrats didn't really support this.

[00:16:09] But now I see Chuck Schumer is all for packing the court.

[00:16:13] I think Kamala Harris has supported packing the court.

[00:16:17] So it looks like if you do get a majority Democrat in the White House, in the House, and Senate, this might very well happen fairly quickly.

[00:16:26] Yeah, I think so.

[00:16:27] I mean, they have no reason not to pursue this.

[00:16:31] They would have had the majority in the presidency, obviously, but they probably are going to have some very strong support in the Senate, where they're going to need the support the most.

[00:16:39] And who knows what happens in the House there as well.

[00:16:40] The only real bulwark against a lot of this is the Congress itself, hopefully, and the American people.

[00:16:46] But they exercise through that – through the Congress there as well.

[00:16:49] But, look, Schumer's been very supportive of this.

[00:16:51] This is the whirlwind he was talking about when he is on the steps of the Supreme Court yelling and screaming about a decision he didn't like and that just as Kavanaugh and the rest are going to reap the whirlwind about this whole thing just because they came to a different opinion when it comes to the interpretation of the Constitution, which I think actually the justices got right in that situation.

[00:17:09] But this is – when we make the Supreme Court, the one entity that's supposed to be insulated from political intrigue, from political debate, allowed to have that judicial independence so that they can get away and above the fray of the political – the fights and the battles, but also sort of the fecklessness of the whole thing and the fast starts and the slow stops that politics is famous for.

[00:17:36] It's supposed to be outside of all that so they can be insulated to be able to make those decisions without fearing losing their seat.

[00:17:44] In Federalist No. 78, the authors there talking about the Supreme Court are, I think, prescient to say that we have nothing to fear from a judiciary that is disconnected entirely from the other branches but has everything to fear our democracy does if it is connected to becoming another part of the – I'm butchering the quote, of course.

[00:18:05] But you get the point that when it stays independent of the third branches, those separate and are equal in their authority but separate in their responsibilities.

[00:18:13] That's how democracy – that's how our constitutional republic functions best.

[00:18:17] And if you change that and just make the third branch of government exactly like the other two, well, do you like how this election season is going at the executive level?

[00:18:26] Not so much fun.

[00:18:27] Do you like all the advertisements you're getting on the congressional races that are coming across your TV and all the acrimony that comes with the Senate fights in your state right now?

[00:18:35] Well, you're going to have the exact same thing happen, but now it's going to be involving the justices.

[00:18:40] We don't want that.

[00:18:41] Nobody would want that.

[00:18:42] Yeah, and let me take an example.

[00:18:44] If you'll remember one of the lawsuits after the Supreme Court decision on immunity, executive immunity, that you can't sue the president for everything or criminalize everything.

[00:18:54] If he's doing his official duties and following those things, they said you've got to have some – or else Biden would be criminally prosecuted right now.

[00:19:03] Or Afghanistan.

[00:19:03] Yeah, exactly.

[00:19:05] Obama for hitting the wrong house during the war and killing innocent people in Afghanistan.

[00:19:10] You just go on and on and on.

[00:19:12] So they did that.

[00:19:13] Well, so the local judge, Judge Eileen Cannon, the federal judge in the suit brought by Jack Smith, dismissed the suit for a number of reasons.

[00:19:25] Within the next month, over 100 ethics complaints were filed against her.

[00:19:32] You don't file ethics complaints.

[00:19:34] I mean there's rare if it's such – but it shows you how the politicization can occur if you allow these type of things.

[00:19:41] So it might sound really neat to – yeah, yeah, let's have some ethics.

[00:19:45] Let's put – let's have some ethics control over the courts.

[00:19:50] By whom?

[00:19:52] By – you know, you're politicizing.

[00:19:55] You're now – they're not independent.

[00:19:56] We don't have any issues with a lack of ethics with our justices.

[00:20:01] You might not like the opinions, but there's no allegation that anybody issued an opinion because – I mean they keep attacking like Thomas.

[00:20:11] But never would they say that Thomas would issue an opinion because he was influenced by – I mean he's so stubborn.

[00:20:18] He would never do that, right?

[00:20:20] So this is all false, but it's something that is really damaging if they succeed.

[00:20:26] So it's a real fight for the future of our country.

[00:20:30] And I would encourage people if they're not educated on this to go to SupremeCoup.com and just educate other people because this should be part of – there might be somebody that says,

[00:20:40] I don't want to vote for this Senate seat or I don't want to vote for president because I don't like these candidates.

[00:20:46] Well, do you care about this issue?

[00:20:48] Do you care about whether you have a court, whether Roe v. Wade is overturned or it's back in?

[00:20:53] I mean you could just go through a lot of these issues, but having a court is important no matter – you should be either side of the aisle.

[00:21:00] You should be like we've got to make sure this doesn't happen to our country.

[00:21:03] And then you're asking the question, does Robert Menendez now out?

[00:21:07] Is he the one who's going to chair this?

[00:21:09] Or George Santos or Eric Swalwell who was having an affair with a Chinese spy?

[00:21:14] Yes.

[00:21:15] Which one of the members of Congress are going to be good enough to be able to draft ethics for other people?

[00:21:21] Stay with us.

[00:21:22] We'll be right back.

[00:21:31] In 19th century London, two towering historical figures did battle, not with guns and bombs, but words and ideas.

[00:21:40] London was home to Karl Marx, the father of communism, and legendary Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon.

[00:21:48] London was in many ways the center of the world economically, militarily, and intellectually.

[00:21:55] Marx sought to destroy religion, the family, and everything the Bible supports.

[00:22:00] Spurgeon stood against him, warning of socialism's dangers.

[00:22:04] Spurgeon understood Christianity is not just religious truth.

[00:22:08] It is truth for all of life.

[00:22:11] Where do you find men with that kind of wisdom to stand against darkness today?

[00:22:16] Get the light you need on today's most pressing issues delivered to your inbox when you sign up for the Viewpoints commentary at pointofview.net.

[00:22:27] Every weekday in less than two minutes, you'll learn how to be a person of light to stand against darkness in our time.

[00:22:35] It's free, so visit pointofview.net slash sign up right now.

[00:22:41] pointofview.net slash sign up.

[00:22:48] Point of View will continue after this.

[00:22:58] You are listening to Point of View.

[00:23:03] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station.

[00:23:11] And now, here again, Dr. Merrill Matthews.

[00:23:14] And welcome back to Point of View.

[00:23:16] Joining me in studio, Kelly Shackelford and Jeremy Dice, both with First Liberty Institute.

[00:23:20] And we were talking about the Supreme Court and the importance of this election.

[00:23:26] You know, in the 2016 election, the Supreme Court was a really big issue because of the ability to be able to replace some of the justices.

[00:23:35] Here it's again an issue because of what Democrats want to do to the Supreme Court.

[00:23:40] So that means you've got to get out and vote.

[00:23:44] And, Kelly, you've been looking at some of the issues with evangelicals who do and don't vote.

[00:23:49] It's a big issue.

[00:23:52] You know, people can find this anywhere, I'm sure.

[00:23:55] But it's probably a pointofview.net.

[00:23:56] Yes, we have it up on pointofview.net.

[00:23:58] George Barna did some extensive polling and released this polling before the election.

[00:24:05] And so let me just hit a couple of highlights.

[00:24:07] It's 51 percent of people of faith are likely to vote in the 2024 election.

[00:24:14] 51 percent, which means 49 percent are unlikely.

[00:24:19] They're saying they're not going to vote.

[00:24:21] Well, you know, and they give all kinds of reasons.

[00:24:25] Not interested.

[00:24:26] The number one is they're not interested in politics and elections.

[00:24:30] So I guess they're not interested in any of the biblical issues that are connected there to either life, you know, mutilation of children.

[00:24:38] I mean, all these things dislike.

[00:24:41] The next reason is disliking all the major candidates.

[00:24:45] This is one of the ones that always just boggles my mind.

[00:24:49] It's not a matter of whether you like a candidate.

[00:24:51] It's a matter of what they're going to do, you know, and what's going to happen if you put them and the people they appoint in charge.

[00:24:59] So it's kind of silly, you know, feeling that none of the candidates reflect their most important views.

[00:25:09] So anyway, I mean, there's nobody that's going to be a perfect fit, right, unless you vote for yourself.

[00:25:16] So just a lot of crazy things in there.

[00:25:19] But here's the thing that I think is shocking to most point of view listeners.

[00:25:23] Thirty two million Christians who regularly attend church are unlikely to vote in November.

[00:25:31] This is from what they say.

[00:25:34] And and then here, you know, so it's this is really depressing when you look at this at first.

[00:25:40] But there's sort of a light at the end of the tunnel, which is that most most people.

[00:25:47] Well, I say most a significant number of those who say they're not planning to vote.

[00:25:52] Seventy percent.

[00:25:54] If churches taught that voting is a biblical responsibility of Christians, they would vote.

[00:25:59] If their pastor would simply say it's a biblical responsibility.

[00:26:04] Fourteen percent.

[00:26:04] If family or friends were to talk to them about the importance of voting, they would vote.

[00:26:12] You know, so you start adding these together.

[00:26:15] If the if they thought the right this is 14 percent.

[00:26:17] If they thought the race was close enough for their vote to make a difference, they would vote.

[00:26:23] So you start looking at this.

[00:26:25] And it's liable to be in some areas.

[00:26:26] Yes.

[00:26:26] And I mean, the presidency also, especially in these swing states.

[00:26:30] But so Barna projects just from all the analysis that five million additional Christians would be likely to vote if their pastor alone encouraged them to do so.

[00:26:43] Not to vote for so and so just to vote.

[00:26:46] So this is sort of the good news in this is this is really depressing.

[00:26:51] But if pastors would simply call their people to vote, talk about the biblical response.

[00:26:57] I've seen some pastors already do this.

[00:26:59] I saw an Instagram or a Facebook.

[00:27:03] One of the videos was going around yesterday from what Greg Lowry said in his church.

[00:27:08] Very basic, but very good.

[00:27:11] Jack Hibbs.

[00:27:12] I saw a recent interview.

[00:27:13] I see I've seen a number of pastors, Gary Hamrick.

[00:27:16] A lot of the pastors are starting to do this, but most are not.

[00:27:21] And and this is kind of basic.

[00:27:23] And if they're scared, we have a at First Liberty.

[00:27:27] We have a section called First Liberty dot org slash elections.

[00:27:31] And it says here's a one pager on the fact that you're free to do all these things.

[00:27:36] There's a lot of fear.

[00:27:37] And certainly telling people to vote is none.

[00:27:40] And nobody, nobody in the IRS would even say there's any problem with that.

[00:27:45] So it's it's something where you can really influence and challenge people.

[00:27:49] To me, this is the parable of the talents and the person who buried theirs in the ground.

[00:27:57] And Jesus didn't exactly respond very well to that.

[00:28:01] Right.

[00:28:01] And he gave us incredible freedoms and the ability to make these decisions where our brothers and sisters across the world have no authority to do this under dictators and under their situations.

[00:28:13] He gave us this.

[00:28:15] And for people to bury it under the ground is really disgraceful.

[00:28:18] But it can change a little bit significantly.

[00:28:21] Probably that affects a lot of elections.

[00:28:24] Pastors just speak out.

[00:28:25] The Wall Street Journal has an article that came out yesterday and it's it says the title is some evangelicals crusade for Trump.

[00:28:32] And it's talking about a group called the New Apostolic Reformation.

[00:28:35] But they have in there some stuff from Ralph Reed, who's been on the show many times.

[00:28:40] And it says he's he's aims.

[00:28:42] I'm quoting here aims to raise and spend sixty two million dollars this year to reach evangelicals who cast ballots infrequently.

[00:28:51] Some fourteen point five million voters by his estimate.

[00:28:55] It also goes on to say the independent churches have about thirty three million you in the U.S.

[00:29:02] Members members combined compared with about seventy four million U.S. Catholics and fifty four million members of denominational Protestant churches.

[00:29:12] So there is a lot of people when we start talking about Christians out there, not all evangelicals, but it's certainly among the Catholics.

[00:29:20] Many of them would be supportive of pro-life and so forth.

[00:29:24] Yeah, it's I mean, it's it's a huge issue.

[00:29:26] And one of the things that, again, the Barna data shows is if you look at the voting turnout for, you know, again, people that attend church regularly and all these things.

[00:29:36] There is a 2016 was at a certain level.

[00:29:41] 2020, it went up.

[00:29:44] OK, what it's showing is that this year it's going to go down back to the 2016 levels if something doesn't change.

[00:29:53] Amongst, again, born again Christians, evangelicals, these different categories, people who attend church regularly.

[00:30:00] So so it's it's significant.

[00:30:03] And when you look at a lot of these vote totals, I mean, remember Georgia last time was like I think it was under twenty thousand or twenty one thousand somewhere.

[00:30:12] Arizona was really close.

[00:30:14] A lot of these states are really close.

[00:30:16] And and, you know, if the pastors would just do what they're supposed to, they're supposed to equip the saints to represent Christ in every area of society, including in the voting booth.

[00:30:25] Doesn't mean that to tell me to vote for.

[00:30:27] But the idea is they're supposed to go represent Christ.

[00:30:30] They're supposed to represent Christ in all situations.

[00:30:33] Pastors are supposed to help us do that.

[00:30:35] Right. Knowing how to answer to anyone to give the reason for the hope that we have to how to stand for what's right and what's good.

[00:30:42] It's just basic if they would just encourage them.

[00:30:44] And again, I like the Greg Lowry thing I saw from his service.

[00:30:49] Well, you know, any pastor could say that.

[00:30:51] I think they would all feel comfortable.

[00:30:53] It's just a matter of them doing it.

[00:30:54] You know, Jeremy, some churches even go to the to the effort of having registration tables there so people can register to vote at the church.

[00:31:03] That's a great thing for churches to be able to do.

[00:31:05] They can also serve as as community centers for debates.

[00:31:09] You know, if you want to have the candidates come in as a forum and just make sure you invite all of the candidates to come in to see.

[00:31:14] They don't have to all come, but you have to invite them all getting the chance to come be there.

[00:31:17] There are a lot of ways and a lot of things that churches can do to inform the local community about the upcoming election.

[00:31:25] And most of all, churches play a critical role in teaching their people how to think through the issues that the scriptures talk about.

[00:31:33] And so if pastors are censoring themselves and not having that discussion, that's a problem.

[00:31:38] They don't they should not be doing that.

[00:31:40] And said they ought to be speaking about what the scriptures speak about.

[00:31:44] And if the IRS were to somehow come after you about that, then go to FirstLiberty.org.

[00:31:48] Tell us we'll help you out and it's going to be all right.

[00:31:51] There's zero issue there.

[00:31:53] Right.

[00:31:53] I mean, the law is totally supportive of the pastors speaking to these issues if they want to.

[00:31:57] Some churches have done voters guides.

[00:32:00] Is that appropriate?

[00:32:01] Yeah.

[00:32:01] Stay away from the language like vote for vote against.

[00:32:04] As long as you're putting out nonpartisan voters guides, it's perfectly fine.

[00:32:07] Hmm.

[00:32:08] And so do you do you hear a lot?

[00:32:10] I know my church did at one time.

[00:32:11] I haven't seen it lately.

[00:32:13] Can they get in trouble?

[00:32:14] Is it is it?

[00:32:15] Do they only get in trouble if they say vote for or vote against?

[00:32:17] Pretty much.

[00:32:18] Yeah.

[00:32:18] Churches are supposed to be nonpartisan.

[00:32:20] They're supposed to be outside that political fray.

[00:32:23] But that's why we say talk about the issues.

[00:32:26] And if you're able to talk about the issues that the Bible talks about, whether or not that addresses a political issue or not is not germane.

[00:32:32] You're there to talk about the scriptures.

[00:32:33] The reality is that in the history of the Johnson Amendment, that amendment, the seven or eight little words that Senator Johnson, LBJ, put in after, you know, getting elected in 1948 by 87 votes.

[00:32:45] They put that into the IRS code in 1954 that says that nonprofits, 501c3s, cannot engage in political activity.

[00:32:52] Well, that's this, quote, Johnson Amendment.

[00:32:54] That has then been used against churches as this sort of scare tactic to tell them don't come close to politics or you're going to lose your tax exempt status.

[00:33:01] You know how many have lost their tax exempt status since then?

[00:33:04] Zero.

[00:33:05] Two.

[00:33:05] I only know of one that has a name on it.

[00:33:07] I have to say two because it appears in some congressional record some IRS agent said that there's a second one, but I don't know the name of it.

[00:33:13] I can't find it.

[00:33:14] So there's one.

[00:33:15] And guess what?

[00:33:15] That one?

[00:33:16] It's tax exempt today.

[00:33:17] Why?

[00:33:17] Because the IRS recognizes a church's tax exempt status.

[00:33:21] It does not bestow the tax exempt status upon a church.

[00:33:24] You as a church are already tax exempt by registering to be a 501c3.

[00:33:29] You're merely taking advantage of what the IRS already is supposed to recognize.

[00:33:33] We'll be back in our closing segment for Point of View in just a minute.

[00:33:55] The New York Times recently reported on an emerging truth among Christians.

[00:34:00] Correspondent Ruth Graham writes,

[00:34:02] For the first time in modern American history, young men are now more religious than their female peers.

[00:34:07] They attend services more often and are more likely to identify as religious.

[00:34:12] This dynamic applies only to Christians who are part of Generation Z.

[00:34:16] Gen Z currently encompasses ages 12 to 27.

[00:34:19] A survey of over 5,000 Americans done last year by the Survey Center on American Life at the American Enterprise Institute

[00:34:26] found that in every other demographic, men were more likely than women to describe themselves as religiously unaffiliated.

[00:34:32] But, the study shows, within Gen Z, the opposite is the case.

[00:34:36] As the Times' Ruth Graham puts it,

[00:34:38] the men are staying in church while the women are leaving at a remarkable clip.

[00:34:42] A recent Wall Street Journal article outlined the metrics in which young men keep falling behind their female peers.

[00:34:49] Fewer are attending college.

[00:34:50] Fewer are employed.

[00:34:51] Fewer are looking for work or obtaining workforce training.

[00:34:54] Fewer feel needed.

[00:34:55] More report being lonely.

[00:34:57] More commit suicide.

[00:34:59] One reason more young men are in church may be that many churches are intentionally speaking to these trends.

[00:35:04] New York Times columnist Russ Douthat writes,

[00:35:07] It may be, then, that churches that seem like home to young men are particularly well positioned to do that kind of work.

[00:35:14] Stabilizing and elevating men who are currently adrift and making them more appealing as potential spouses

[00:35:19] than any currently available force in either normie or very online culture.

[00:35:24] The AEI survey shows 61% of Gen Z women identify as feminists.

[00:35:30] Perhaps they're not as on board with this macho Christianity.

[00:35:33] Mary Harrington, author of Feminism Against Progress, coined the term and says young men are attracted to a Christianity that is prepared to fight,

[00:35:42] to struggle, to refuse therapeutic winsomeness.

[00:35:45] Hopefully, these guys will invite the girls back to church.

[00:35:48] For Point of View, I'm Penna Dexter.

[00:35:55] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:36:01] And we're back with our final segment for this weekend edition.

[00:36:04] And we've been talking about what churches can do.

[00:36:07] And Kelly and Jeremy, we were talking about candidates, but there are also issues.

[00:36:11] And one of the big issues out there around the states is the issue of abortion.

[00:36:17] It's going to be on a lot of the ballots, pro and con.

[00:36:22] Yeah.

[00:36:22] And pastors can speak to abortion.

[00:36:25] I mean, they should speak to abortion.

[00:36:27] You know, I went to a church with a pastor who, for many years, who didn't talk about a lot of these issues.

[00:36:33] And I'll never forget one Sunday.

[00:36:36] He got up.

[00:36:37] He had seen a sonogram of his grandchild.

[00:36:41] And he came in and he talked.

[00:36:43] He'd read this book, The Moral Mandate to Vote.

[00:36:46] And it talked about abortion and voting.

[00:36:48] And he was in there talking about the issue and biblically the issue of abortion.

[00:36:56] And he just stopped and he said, if you're voting and you're not including as maybe the top issue, this issue, then you're in sin.

[00:37:05] If you're not voting.

[00:37:07] And he said, you know, I know some people say we shouldn't talk about this.

[00:37:13] He said, but I'm your pastor.

[00:37:15] I'm supposed to talk to you about this.

[00:37:17] And the response was something I'll never forget.

[00:37:20] The entire place stood up in a standing ovation.

[00:37:23] I think that people in churches are just dying to see their pastors lead and speak on what the Bible says about these issues.

[00:37:35] And I think the pastors are scaring themselves a lot.

[00:37:38] So, for instance, what we just talked about, this is a no-brainer.

[00:37:42] The idea of a pastor telling their people that they should vote, that they should represent Christ in the voting booth.

[00:37:49] That is about as easy as they come.

[00:37:52] There's not anybody in the country that would say that there's a problem with that, you know, like legally.

[00:37:59] And it's something very easy that they can do and have a big difference in helping their people be good stewards of the freedoms they've been given and being obedient to the Lord.

[00:38:11] Speaking about voting booths, there are some churches that have voting booths in them.

[00:38:15] Yes.

[00:38:16] Because they're chosen to be election centers.

[00:38:18] 20% of the polling locations in the country are churches.

[00:38:23] But apparently that's a problem in Rowlett.

[00:38:26] Well, it shouldn't be.

[00:38:28] But, yeah, this mayor, this young mayor, I think he was elected at some really young age.

[00:38:34] 25 or something like that, yeah.

[00:38:35] And so, which, you know, maybe this is, you know, alert, careful with electing young mayors who might not be that bright to what they should be thinking about.

[00:38:47] A church was the polling location there, which, again.

[00:38:50] And they were asked by Dallas County to do that.

[00:38:53] Yeah, I remember right.

[00:38:54] And, again, a lot of facilities around the country, the churches are a better facility.

[00:38:59] They're easy to get to, et cetera.

[00:39:00] The churches are trying to just serve their community by doing that.

[00:39:04] In some places, churches have got the space to be able to do this that you may not have in other areas.

[00:39:10] That's right.

[00:39:11] And so, in this case, what happened is they were approved.

[00:39:15] Well, the mayor of this city didn't like that the county had approved the church.

[00:39:21] And so, in an email that he sent out to employees that we got a hold of, he said, as long as I'm mayor, nobody's going to be voting in a church.

[00:39:34] So, it's clear what his motivation was.

[00:39:36] Well, the next thing you know, they get a letter to the church saying, we know that we granted you a certificate of occupancy a year ago so that you could be in your church.

[00:39:47] But we're now going to revoke it because we don't think you have enough parking spaces.

[00:39:53] So, this was clearly an attempt to literally shut down the church from worship, from everything, because he didn't want them to be a polling location.

[00:40:03] And so, we're now representing the church, and he's beginning to change his tune a little bit on the other side.

[00:40:10] He still doesn't want them to be a polling location, but he realizes the discrimination in trying to take away their certificate of occupancy would get him in big trouble under the Constitution.

[00:40:22] So, you know, they're in a battle now, the church, because they're trying to serve their community and be a polling place, which is totally not only legal, but what happens all over the country.

[00:40:32] This has been an issue here in the Dallas area because the Rowlett's just outside of Dallas, and so we've been seeing it on the local news.

[00:40:39] And recently, when I saw the mayor last night, he has so changed his tune.

[00:40:45] He said, you know, we were trying to do it in another place because they had more parking, and it's better set for this community center or something.

[00:40:52] And so, that's the only reason why I would have done that.

[00:40:55] We don't have any problem with the church, but that just doesn't seem to be the case, at least from the church's standpoint.

[00:41:01] Well, then call off the dogs, mayor.

[00:41:02] If that's the problem, then there should be no problem with the certificate of occupancy.

[00:41:07] There should be no concern whatsoever that you have about this church or any other church, for that matter, offering to be a or being a polling place.

[00:41:14] But this is well beyond being a polling place.

[00:41:18] The mayor does not want this church there in his town.

[00:41:22] He has said as much.

[00:41:23] I mean, is it to say, as he has publicly, that polling places should only be places that are neutral?

[00:41:32] Let that sink in for a second.

[00:41:33] You should only be in places that are neutral.

[00:41:36] Would he say that about other places?

[00:41:39] I mean, is a senior center neutral?

[00:41:41] Is the city center for your town, the town hall, is that a neutral site?

[00:41:47] How about a public school?

[00:41:47] Is that a neutral site?

[00:41:49] You go down the list of these things, and you may make some arguments about how neutral they are.

[00:41:53] But to suggest that a church, which churches have been polling places before we were a country, by the way,

[00:42:01] is somehow off limits because it is inherently just walking in there somehow destroys neutrality for you.

[00:42:08] It is such a ludicrous idea, as if that you go through the door, and all of a sudden you are forced to your knee,

[00:42:14] and your hand is grabbed by the air of the room that you are now walking in,

[00:42:19] and is forcing you to vote for a particular candidate.

[00:42:22] I mean, I can't even explain the logic that this mayor has to go through to get to the point where he says it's not even neutral.

[00:42:29] And one of the things he says is it's because the pastor has expressed his support for a particular candidate.

[00:42:36] Well, gosh, I just miss the part about pastors not having First Amendment rights.

[00:42:42] So I guess that means if you can't vote in a school, if somebody on the school board said who they were going to vote for for something.

[00:42:48] Yeah, or a principal.

[00:42:50] What if, Mr. Mayor, what if he had said, go vote for you?

[00:42:53] Well, I would have been okay, I bet.

[00:42:55] I wonder.

[00:42:55] Sure.

[00:42:58] It's incredible.

[00:42:59] You know, churches, again, this is part of a theme, though, that we're seeing.

[00:43:04] Jeremy is in charge of the whole area for us at First Liberty on churches and religious institutions.

[00:43:11] And we're seeing this whole thing of criminalizing compassion, of literally pastors being, you know, criminally prosecuted because they want to feed a homeless person or take care of them.

[00:43:22] And we've never seen this, and we're starting to see it more and more.

[00:43:25] And this is a great example.

[00:43:26] A church trying to do something good for their community, and the next thing you know, they're under attack.

[00:43:31] And they were asked to do that.

[00:43:32] I mean, as far as I know, it wasn't the pastor going out seeking that kind of attention.

[00:43:36] He was asked by the county.

[00:43:38] And they've done it before.

[00:43:39] Sure.

[00:43:39] You know?

[00:43:40] So tell us what's happening at First Liberty right now.

[00:43:42] Well, we're doing a lot of cases.

[00:43:44] We just filed the appeal, as we mentioned earlier, in the Federal Court of Appeals in the Alaska Airlines case, which will affect people and their ability to not be discriminated on the basis of their faith at work.

[00:43:55] We've got another case that's going up, the Supreme Court here, in the next few weeks that has similar issues.

[00:44:02] We've got cases across the board, you know?

[00:44:04] I mean, people trying to run their business according to their faith.

[00:44:07] We've got lots of school cases, a big parental rights case on the authority of parents over their children.

[00:44:14] We've got a school, literally, that has forced the fifth graders to read a book to the kindergartners that tells the kindergartners to question their gender.

[00:44:25] And one of the kids is uncomfortable because of his faith, and they are refusing to provide him a religious exemption from being forced to violate his conscience and his faith.

[00:44:34] So it's incredible the kind of battles.

[00:44:37] And if people want to follow these, pray for these kids, pray for these families, pray for these churches, they can go to FirstLiberty.org.

[00:44:45] And there's an insider alert that we send out every week.

[00:44:48] They can sign up.

[00:44:49] It's over a half million people are signed up that just get the information to pray and to help others understand their freedoms.

[00:44:55] That's Kelly Shackelford with FirstLiberty and also Jeremy Dice is joining me today.

[00:45:00] And I want to thank Megan for being an engineer and Steve for producing.

[00:45:04] And we thank you for joining us here on Point of View.

[00:45:11] At Point of View, we believe there is power in prayer.

[00:45:15] And that is why we have relaunched our Pray for America campaign,

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[00:45:26] Imagine if hundreds of thousands of Americans started praying intentionally together on a weekly basis.

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[00:45:41] Just go to pointofview.net and click on the Pray for America banner that's right there on the homepage.

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[00:45:55] and a free resource to equip you in further action.

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[00:46:20] Let's pray together for God to make a difference in our land.

[00:46:27] Point of View is produced by Point of View Ministries.