[00:00:04] Across America, live, this is Point of View, your guest host for Point of View.
[00:00:21] Welcome back to Point of View. I'm Liberty McCarter filling in for Kirby Anderson today. Thank you for being here. We had a great interview in the last hour with Joshua Ryan Butler on his book, The Party Crashers, and we were talking about how we can bring our allegiance to Christ above our political leanings.
[00:00:40] And that is something that we've been thinking about a lot. This year, it's an election year. It's easy to focus on the issues that are impacting us as American Christians.
[00:00:49] But even with all of that going on, we do not want to forget about our brothers and sisters in Christ around the world, many of whom do not enjoy the freedoms and privileges that we do here.
[00:01:00] And that's why we've invited Don Shank back on Point of View. He is the director of the Tide Ministry. And so we're going to be talking to him about what's happening around the world.
[00:01:09] Thank you for joining Point of View again, Don.
[00:01:13] Well, thank you, Liberty. It's always a joy to talk about what God is doing around the world.
[00:01:17] Yes. So just in case, I know you've been on the show before, but in case any of our listeners maybe missed your last interview or have forgotten in the month since, Don Shank was born to missionary parents.
[00:01:28] And prior to joining the Tide in 2001, he served as a missionary teaching at a Bible school in Zimbabwe, Africa.
[00:01:36] And Don, tell us a little bit more about the Tide and the kind of work that you do around the world specifically.
[00:01:43] What's your primary method of evangelism around the world?
[00:01:47] Sure. As a Tide ministry, we've transitioned from what was a local radio broadcast that started in 1946 to now being an international outreach.
[00:01:59] We do not do a local radio program anymore. Instead, our focus is to work with indigenous groups to help them to create and utilize a media outreach in their own language to share the gospel with their own people in a very culturally relevant context.
[00:02:19] And, of course, a lot of it still is radio. We do a lot of programming in radio that's still used very much around the world and still very relevant to so many people.
[00:02:30] But more and more people are getting access to TVs or to online video and audio platforms.
[00:02:39] So it's more diverse, but essentially helping to get the gospel to people in their own language and through some media format.
[00:02:51] And then, of course, assisting those groups to provide the structures and what they need to do to help people who are hearing the gospel and they're curious, they want to know more,
[00:03:04] and hopefully want to embrace Jesus as Lord and Savior, so to make disciples, to help develop discipleship groups, plant churches, develop leadership for that.
[00:03:15] It all builds on it.
[00:03:17] Yeah. Great.
[00:03:18] What a great resource of modern technology and just innovative method for bringing the gospel to people around the world.
[00:03:25] And I want to focus on something that the Tide Ministry actually brought our attention to, that recently over 300 Christian leaders called on the U.S. State Department to list India as a country of particular concern due to escalating religious freedom violations.
[00:03:45] So can you fill us in on this update and explain why persecution of Christians is increasing in India?
[00:03:54] Yeah.
[00:03:55] Yeah, that is something, you know, it's been ongoing and it goes back to the whole history of that region.
[00:04:02] The whole area used to be part of a British colony.
[00:04:07] And when that area, different countries gained independence, they kind of carved it up by religious lines.
[00:04:14] So Pakistan was predominantly Muslim.
[00:04:19] Bangladesh was predominantly Muslim.
[00:04:23] And India was predominantly Hindu.
[00:04:26] And so it's kind of had this background or this history of being viewed as a Hindu nation.
[00:04:33] In fact, another name for India that some people use is Hindustan, which means place of Hindus.
[00:04:39] And so it's kind of had this.
[00:04:40] But the government, the official constitution of India, it is a secular country similar to the United States that theoretically officially allows religious freedom.
[00:04:51] Mm-hmm.
[00:04:52] But what we're seeing more and more, especially with the present government in place, they are a very staunch Hindu party.
[00:05:02] And so they are endorsing basically persecution against other faiths, not just Christianity.
[00:05:13] There is a very stated agenda by the current political party that's in leadership in India is that they want to make India only a Hindu nation.
[00:05:25] They don't want any other religions there.
[00:05:28] Wow.
[00:05:28] And so even though officially they can't stop that or they can't, they haven't made any national laws.
[00:05:36] Mm-hmm.
[00:05:37] At the state level, there are definitely anti-conversion laws.
[00:05:42] Mm-hmm.
[00:05:43] And what response, if any, has there been from our government in terms of kind of evaluating the classification on India and recognizing the political or the religious persecution going on there?
[00:05:57] I think our government has been slow and has been dragging its feet a little bit.
[00:06:04] There's been more pressure from mission organizations like the Tide Ministry or other church leaders, other organizations of focus, like Open Doors and Voice of the Martyrs, some of these organizations that have their finger on the pulse of faith in various countries, putting that pressure on.
[00:06:27] Mm-hmm.
[00:06:28] And we need to be able to continue to push our government because we, you know, America is not officially a Christian nation.
[00:06:37] I know many of us like to believe it is.
[00:06:39] And I'm grateful for the freedom that we have to exercise our faith.
[00:06:43] We have, we can exert influence.
[00:06:47] And we can tell India, you have to, you know, embrace Christianity.
[00:06:53] But we can pressurize India to say, your constitution allows religious freedom.
[00:06:59] So please allow believers in India to exercise their faith without being persecuted by their own neighbors and their local governments.
[00:07:09] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:07:11] And later on, I do want to talk specifically about some ways that maybe here in the United States, we can have an influence overseas with others who are experiencing persecution.
[00:07:24] But we've only got about a minute before our break, and then we'll come back and delve into it some more.
[00:07:29] But do you guys have some unique approaches with how things are changing for you to still spread the gospel in India right now?
[00:07:38] Well, obviously, the radio broadcasts that are going in are having a huge impact.
[00:07:44] And almost everything we do in India is through shortwave broadcasting.
[00:07:47] So it's coming in from outside the country.
[00:07:50] So that is providing the gospel to people.
[00:07:55] Then having those boots on the ground.
[00:07:57] One of the things that we found is with persecution coming in, a stranger coming into the village to teach or to follow up with listeners immediately draws attention.
[00:08:09] But training some local people there, when we have some believers, training them and helping to equip them to share their faith and to help others who are curious about what they've heard on the radio, help to explain and say, what is the Christian faith?
[00:08:28] So working more through local boots on the ground, not just sending in external missionaries.
[00:08:34] Yeah. Wonderful. Such important information.
[00:08:37] We're talking with Don Schenk of the Tide Ministries about persecution of Christians globally, specifically in India.
[00:08:44] So stay with us. We'll be right back after this break.
[00:08:58] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.
[00:09:02] Since the Hamas attack last year in Israel, the government and the IDF have been fighting in Gaza.
[00:09:06] But now Israel has also had to deal with Hezbollah to the north, which has fired more than 8000 rockets at this small country.
[00:09:13] These indiscriminate attacks have forced thousands of Israelis to flee from the northern part of Israel.
[00:09:19] Once again, world leaders are cautioning Israel to avoid escalating this conflict.
[00:09:24] But Rich Lowry argues that the Jewish state is under no obligation to tolerate the intolerable.
[00:09:30] Instead, the country's leaders are to treat all these rocket attacks as background noise.
[00:09:35] No other country in the world would be expected to ignore such attacks on their sovereign nation.
[00:09:39] Israel cannot follow these rules.
[00:09:41] Rich Lowry asks, what other country is asked to bear the rocketing of its civilian population?
[00:09:47] And yet it was criticized even when it tried to minimize civilian casualties by targeting terrorist leaders through their pagers and electronic devices.
[00:09:55] The counter-terrorist plan is reminiscent of something you might find in a James Bond film or a Mission Impossible film.
[00:10:02] Rich Lowry summarizes how Israel is criticized no matter what it does.
[00:10:06] Israel hits terrorist targets from the air and is accused of war crimes.
[00:10:10] Israel goes in on the ground and is accused of war crimes.
[00:10:13] Israel does neither, opting instead to target terrorists by using their own devices against them and is accused of war crimes.
[00:10:20] Perhaps you can sense the frustration, but you also need to experience the fear.
[00:10:25] The guide we use for our trips to Israel lives in the region where these rockets are landing.
[00:10:30] Imagine how you would feel if rockets were landing in your community and world leaders were cautioning you to show restraint.
[00:10:37] This is a situation in Israel today.
[00:10:39] I'm Kirby Anderson and that's my point of view.
[00:10:46] For a free copy of Kirby's booklet, A Biblical View on Antisemitism, go to viewpoints.info.com.
[00:10:54] Viewpoints.info.com.
[00:10:58] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.
[00:11:04] Welcome back to Point of View.
[00:11:05] I'm Liberty McCarter and right now we're interviewing Don Schenck of the Tide Ministry,
[00:11:10] talking about the situation for Christians around the globe.
[00:11:14] Specifically, we've been discussing India and the increasing religious persecution there of Christians and many others as well.
[00:11:22] And Don, you were explaining how even though India's constitution is supportive of religious freedom,
[00:11:28] the party that is in power right now is staunchly Hindu.
[00:11:34] And so that is the reason for a lot of the increase in religious persecution.
[00:11:40] And so I've read about the physical threats and violence that people have faced there,
[00:11:46] but also just being pushed out, people of other faiths being pushed out of major institutions such as the media, education, and the judiciary.
[00:11:58] And so I'm wondering, in your work, have you seen this as a pattern in countries where you start seeing a decrease in religious freedom,
[00:12:07] where it is a multi-front attack, so to speak?
[00:12:11] Yeah.
[00:12:13] Yeah.
[00:12:13] We don't get as deep into the government structures and that, you know, our primary focus is taking the gospel to where there is limited access.
[00:12:24] And oftentimes that is out in very rural areas where there's a lot of poverty and lack of education and a great need.
[00:12:35] And so what we are more exposed to is seeing that on the ground kind of persecution, which is realistically illegal,
[00:12:46] but it's somewhat sanctioned because the individual states, for example, since we're talking about India, the individual states do have anti-conversion legislation
[00:12:58] or sometimes they call freedom of religion, which means you're not allowed to change religion.
[00:13:04] But there has been fears expressed that the way things are going, as you've mentioned, certain sectors are being reserved for Hindus only.
[00:13:15] And there's fears that eventually get to the point that no jobs will be available to those who are not Hindu.
[00:13:23] So Christians will be excluded.
[00:13:25] But what we see more, what I'm more familiar with and can speak more directly to is that being ostracized and persecuted right in the home, in the community.
[00:13:40] And an example is one of the reports I have here talks about some believers in a village where the local villagers impose serious restrictions on them,
[00:13:52] would not allow them to gather even just to have their prayers and fellowship banish them from the local well.
[00:13:59] And that doesn't have a lot of meaning to us here because we all have running water in our homes.
[00:14:04] But when you live in a community where everyone depends on that one well in the middle of the village for good, clean water,
[00:14:13] the surface water in India is so often it's just unsanitary.
[00:14:18] And when you're banned from that, there's just a crucial component of life that's taken away from you.
[00:14:24] Right.
[00:14:25] And so the local people are, you know, they persecute in that way to the point where we had one couple that was not only banned from the well,
[00:14:35] they were banished from the village.
[00:14:37] But this one has a wonderful ending because the people came, they were living out in the forest,
[00:14:43] and the people came and they called them back and they said, we think we've made a mistake.
[00:14:47] You need to come back into the village.
[00:14:49] Ever since you left, the water in the well has been bitter.
[00:14:53] Oh, wow.
[00:14:54] And they called them back and this young couple came back and prayed over the well.
[00:14:58] And you can guess what happened.
[00:15:00] The water was pure again, sweet and acceptable.
[00:15:03] And so God does move in incredible ways.
[00:15:06] But, you know, the persecution is there.
[00:15:08] And everyone who accepts Jesus as Lord and Savior in India immediately is putting a target on their back in a sense.
[00:15:19] Wow.
[00:15:19] Amazing testimony and definitely something that we can be praying about over here.
[00:15:25] And that leads me to something else.
[00:15:27] I read a testimony on your website about somebody who not only converted to Christianity,
[00:15:32] but also experienced miraculous healing upon receiving prayer from other believers.
[00:15:38] And I just think that's important for us to focus on that God is still moving in those ways.
[00:15:43] Do you find that that is something that affects how you are evangelizing to other cultures,
[00:15:50] or that they are more open to those supernatural moves of God?
[00:15:55] Definitely we do see it more and more.
[00:15:58] And I don't know if it's because here in North America we've just become so dependent on the medical system
[00:16:06] or whatever our structures are that we don't turn to God anymore.
[00:16:11] But we do see people, you've read that testimony,
[00:16:16] we often get testimonies from India of miraculous healing, physical healings, and also spiritual healing.
[00:16:25] The occult is still very present, very real.
[00:16:30] And so we have people who are demon possessed and they're getting freedom from that.
[00:16:36] We have people having dreams and visions.
[00:16:39] And some of our radio speakers, in fact, their call to ministry came through a dream
[00:16:47] in which they saw someone coming to them.
[00:16:50] One guy, he got converted, he had a dream and he saw these figures coming towards him.
[00:16:56] He thought they were representatives from his former gods coming to kill him.
[00:17:01] But when they got to him, he said they lifted him up on his feet and pointed him to God and said,
[00:17:06] we are calling you to preach the gospel.
[00:17:09] Wow.
[00:17:10] There is a definite, I don't want to say that there's a lot of spiritual connection here in America
[00:17:17] because we are, we do have a strong, strong church.
[00:17:22] And there are many believers.
[00:17:24] I think there are many who perhaps have shallow faith, but there are many more who have a deep faith.
[00:17:29] And ministries like the Tide ministry couldn't exist without those who are committed to their faith
[00:17:35] and who give to others around the world can hear about that and can share in that hope and assurance that they have.
[00:17:43] Yes, absolutely.
[00:17:45] And so if you want to learn more about the Tide ministry, then go to pointofview.net.
[00:17:50] And if you go to today's show, you will see a link there and maybe consider a donation
[00:17:56] because as Don has been explaining, they do such important work around the world, bringing the gospel to people in need.
[00:18:03] But before I let you go, Don, I did want to come back to something we were mentioning earlier.
[00:18:08] What is the best way?
[00:18:09] Obviously, we need to pray.
[00:18:11] We need to support people like you who are out there doing the ministry.
[00:18:15] But what is the next thing that we as American Christians can do to advocate here in a way that will impact our brothers and sisters in Christ around the world?
[00:18:28] I think this is my personal opinion.
[00:18:31] I think that the church in North America needs to become much more visible and much more actively engaged in influencing the direction of our country.
[00:18:44] And I don't want to get into politics, but we're having elections coming up.
[00:18:48] I hope believers come out in force and vote for candidates in these elections who will stand for Christian values.
[00:18:58] And the stronger we stand on our foundation of faith here in America, the greater the weight that we will have to speak into other nations.
[00:19:09] Because if we show a nation that on the surface looks very pagan, and there's a lot of things in America that are anti-Christian that people are allowed to do, that just the world looks at that and says, if that's Christianity, we don't want it.
[00:19:29] But if the world can look at America and see who God wants us to be, to see what Jesus Christ truly looks like in a population, that will carry a lot of weight in reaching out.
[00:19:45] And so being able to live out our faith and advocate for our government to pressurize and to encourage other governments to allow that freedom.
[00:20:00] If we can show what freedom in America does for a country and for a population, a Christian freedom, other countries will be more likely to adopt that.
[00:20:11] And especially from a grassroots level, it will rise up.
[00:20:15] Yeah.
[00:20:16] Very.
[00:20:17] That may be complicated.
[00:20:18] That's my opinion.
[00:20:20] Oh, no.
[00:20:20] And, you know, it reminds me of just how blessed we are to have frequent co-host Kelly Shackelford here in the studio who leads First Liberty Institute.
[00:20:29] Because if we don't protect religious freedom here, then that will impact our ability to really support organizations like your ministry, the Tide Ministry, for ministering around the world.
[00:20:43] But thank you so much, Dawn, for joining Point of View today.
[00:20:46] It's been really good to learn about what's happening in India and around the world.
[00:20:50] A great reminder for Christians here in the United States.
[00:20:53] We're about to go to one of those breaks, but don't go anywhere because our next interview is with Joel Chernoff.
[00:21:01] If you haven't, go to pointofview.net and look at Kirby's Viewpoints commentary for today about Israel and Hezbollah,
[00:21:08] because that will give you some background information for some of the things that we'll be discussing in our next interview,
[00:21:13] specifically how Israelis have been personally impacted by the ongoing war since October 7th of last year.
[00:21:21] It'll be important, so stay tuned. We'll be back in just a few minutes.
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[00:21:37] Good information is the key to success, not only for those in the military, but for all of us.
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[00:21:49] Point of View Radio's main role is to provide good information,
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[00:22:48] Point of View will continue after this.
[00:22:58] You are listening to Point of View.
[00:23:02] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station.
[00:23:10] And now, here again, your guest host for Point of View.
[00:23:15] Welcome back to Point of View.
[00:23:17] I'm Liberty McCarter filling in for Kirby Anderson today.
[00:23:19] It has been a great show so far.
[00:23:21] If you're just now joining us, definitely go to pointofview.net and go back and listen to the interviews that you've missed.
[00:23:28] But I'm excited now to turn to this one.
[00:23:30] I think we'll hear some important information.
[00:23:32] We are talking to Joel Chernoff, Executive Director of the Joseph Project International.
[00:23:38] Joel, thank you for joining Point of View today.
[00:23:41] Shalom, and God bless you, Liberty.
[00:23:43] Thank you.
[00:23:44] No, I have to mention something really quick.
[00:23:47] My mom actually texted me before the show and was like, hey, we are big fans of Joel because we've been listening to Lamb forever.
[00:23:56] And so they're fans of your music group from going way back.
[00:24:00] And we're excited that I was going to be speaking with you today.
[00:24:03] So you are a man of many endeavors.
[00:24:06] That is true.
[00:24:09] We were there at the very start of the contemporary Christian movement back in the early 70s.
[00:24:15] That is the music movement.
[00:24:19] Lamb was the first Messianic Jewish group to crack into the top 10.
[00:24:25] We were probably in the top three groups in the country all the way through the 70s and kind of pioneered and popularized the Messianic Jewish sound.
[00:24:35] Yeah.
[00:24:35] So, so great.
[00:24:36] Amazing.
[00:24:37] But today I do want to talk to you about the Joseph Project International.
[00:24:41] And just this week we passed the one-year anniversary of the October 7th terrorist attack against Israel by Hamas.
[00:24:49] And I know that for people over here, all the way on the other side of the world, it may seem kind of surprising that a year has already gone by.
[00:24:58] But not for the people living in Israel because this has had a profound impact on daily life there, hasn't it?
[00:25:06] Yes.
[00:25:06] I was actually there on October the 6th for a conference, got there on the 6th with my wife.
[00:25:15] I had a wonderful Shabbat dinner, a Sabbath dinner, went to bed and woke up in the war.
[00:25:20] And there was explosions all around us.
[00:25:23] We were about halfway in between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem at a conference ground and a hotel.
[00:25:31] So we spent the first nine days of the war both in the conference.
[00:25:36] We still had the conference, believe it or not.
[00:25:38] Wow.
[00:25:38] And it was a privilege to be there and stand with our people during that very, very – I mean, nobody knew the scope of it early on.
[00:25:51] But it just kept getting bigger and bigger.
[00:25:53] And the trauma within Israel because they were caught off guard, it was just brutal.
[00:26:01] It was a very, very brutal period of time.
[00:26:04] And now we are a year later.
[00:26:08] Yeah.
[00:26:09] And I imagine that not only the surprise nature of the attack, but now the ongoing violence, not just from Hamas,
[00:26:19] but now you have attacks launching from all over the place and Israel is surrounded and that is impacting,
[00:26:28] I imagine, the morale of people who are stuck there and experiencing this on a day-by-day basis.
[00:26:36] Well, it is traumatizing for sure, especially for the families of those who were captured by them, hostages.
[00:26:45] But I've got to say that since the war and the shock and the initial brutality and shock of the war,
[00:26:51] that the people and armies of Israel have gelled together and they are fighting.
[00:26:57] I mean, Israel's armies are fighting for their survival, which apparently most of the world doesn't quite get or they don't want to get it.
[00:27:09] But Israel's fighting for its survival on a seven-front war basis.
[00:27:16] This isn't just Gaza.
[00:27:17] This isn't just Lebanon.
[00:27:18] But Iran has sponsored terrorist groups on seven fronts.
[00:27:26] And so this is a fight for the very existence of the state of Israel, even though we know in Scripture,
[00:27:35] it says in Isaiah 54, 17, no weapon, God is speaking about Israel,
[00:27:42] he's promising Israel this in the latter days, no weapon formed against you will succeed or will prosper.
[00:27:51] So God is standing in back of Israel.
[00:27:54] And yes, it was meant, this particular war was meant to take Israel down.
[00:27:59] Hezbollah in the north, Hamas in the south, Houthis, the Syrian rebels in Iraq, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:28:07] They're all gathered to come against Israel.
[00:28:11] And God is saying to them, no, no weapon formed against Israel is going to succeed.
[00:28:18] In fact, he says in the 15th verse that,
[00:28:22] Behold, anyone fiercely attacking you in the end of days is not from me, meaning in judgment.
[00:28:33] Whoever stirs up strife with you will fall because of you.
[00:28:39] These are strong promises to Israel in the latter days.
[00:28:44] And it is so encouraging to hear that there is that unity and that just determination.
[00:28:51] But like you said, to fight for the right to exist.
[00:28:55] And I want to get into that a little bit later, too, and hear your perspective on some of the attitudes that we've seen in our country that have been quite disturbing.
[00:29:04] But give people a little background on what the Joseph Project does and how you bring aid to the vulnerable populations in Israel
[00:29:13] and how that work has, I imagine, heightened in the midst of the war.
[00:29:18] Yes, well, the Joseph Project International was actually founded and began shipping humanitarian aid in containers,
[00:29:27] in 40-foot containers into Israel in 2000.
[00:29:32] It was really born out of a prophetic word that was given to me in 1996.
[00:29:38] And I shared it with the leadership of the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America, which is the organization that I actually work for.
[00:29:51] And so the Joseph Project International was born out of that word.
[00:29:56] It seemed impossible at the time in 1996.
[00:29:59] But by 2000, we began shipping goods into Israel.
[00:30:06] And since that time, we have partnered, Messianic Jews and Christians working together,
[00:30:14] have partnered to send in over $170 million worth of goods into the state of Israel to give aid to the poor and needy there.
[00:30:27] And since the war began on October 7th, over $20 million worth of aid has been distributed to the IDF
[00:30:38] and to displaced Israelis who have been forced out of their homes on the Gaza border and on the Lebanese border.
[00:30:48] That's probably 100,000 worth of goods into Israel to the United States.
[00:30:51] That's probably 100,000 still out of their homes.
[00:30:55] And Israel really has been very, very grateful as the Joseph Project International is the largest importer of goods in the state of Israel,
[00:31:07] importer of humanitarian aid goods.
[00:31:10] And over 100 Israeli corporations also have given us tens of millions of dollars worth of aid.
[00:31:23] All of that for the honor and glory of the God of Israel and the Messiah of Israel.
[00:31:28] Well, praise God for equipping you years ago to be able to have this ministry, the Joseph Project International,
[00:31:37] so that in this time you would be equipped to help in a time that is so desperate.
[00:31:44] And so I want to just remind listeners really quick that you probably want to take advantage of this resource at pointofview.net.
[00:31:52] And that is our weekly Pray for America emails.
[00:31:55] And so if you received the email that went out today,
[00:31:58] you will have seen that we are specifically this week praying for Israel around the anniversary of the October 7th attack.
[00:32:06] So each week if you sign up, it's free.
[00:32:08] You'll get an email with a prayer guide of something specific to pray for that week
[00:32:14] and joining with Christians around the world.
[00:32:15] And so definitely if you're not already getting those emails,
[00:32:19] go to pointofview.net and subscribe to those.
[00:32:22] But, Joel, I know we're going to dive into this more in a few minutes,
[00:32:26] but really quickly before we go to the break,
[00:32:28] can you give us just a clue of maybe some other ways that we wouldn't imagine people are being impacted by the war?
[00:32:36] Obviously there's the fear of the violence,
[00:32:38] but what are some other ways that it's impacting life there?
[00:32:42] Well, first of all, on an economic basis,
[00:32:47] tourism is the number two industry in the country.
[00:32:51] And that industry has taken a billion-dollar hit.
[00:32:55] So that has really hurt.
[00:32:57] That has really hurt the country economically.
[00:33:01] There's like a third of the children living now below the poverty line and 25% of the adults.
[00:33:09] Also, many of the workers, many of the men are fighting.
[00:33:15] They are fighting in the south.
[00:33:17] They're fighting in the north.
[00:33:18] There's hundreds of thousands of soldiers,
[00:33:20] and they are not earning money for their families.
[00:33:25] That has impacted the country greatly in terms of the economy,
[00:33:30] but also with their families.
[00:33:33] And, you know, the cost of living is already high.
[00:33:35] So this has been a real trauma economically for the entire country.
[00:33:39] We'll get back with more and hear more from Joel Chernoff when we come back from this break.
[00:33:56] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.
[00:34:02] Welcome back to Point of View.
[00:34:03] I'm Liberty McCarter, and we are interviewing Joel Chernoff,
[00:34:06] Executive Director of Joseph Project International.
[00:34:09] Joel, you mentioned just a few minutes ago that you were actually in Israel on October 6th
[00:34:14] and woke up on October 7th to a state of war.
[00:34:18] And as soon as or nearly as soon as that happened, we started seeing, I think, maybe not surprising,
[00:34:28] but some disturbing response from people in the U.S.
[00:34:31] For instance, these protests that were very anti-Israel on many college campuses.
[00:34:37] I mean, there have been so many falsehoods that have been spread.
[00:34:42] So ask somebody who was there, and your ministry works in Israel all the time and has for years.
[00:34:47] What are some of the main falsehoods that you think we need to address about what the Israeli people are actually going through?
[00:34:57] Well, I mean, certainly the world, and you could see almost from the start,
[00:35:05] almost from the start of the Gaza war, that there was a planned campaign outside of the country.
[00:35:15] It was a PR campaign to turn the war against Israel and to proclaim Israel the victimizer
[00:35:23] and the terrorists, the victims.
[00:35:26] That's all crazy things.
[00:35:27] But it was well planned, both in Europe and in the United States,
[00:35:33] and within a few days, the media in this country and the politicians on the left began to push this particular line,
[00:35:45] that Israel was the occupier, Israel was the bully.
[00:35:48] No, this is the land God gave to Israel.
[00:35:52] There are 23 lands that are Arab countries.
[00:35:58] These are the sons of Ishmael, and God promised to bless them, and he has kept his promise,
[00:36:03] and they have prospered not only into 12 nations but into 23 nations, 350 million people,
[00:36:12] and great oil wealth in their land.
[00:36:16] But he promised the people of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the Jewish people,
[00:36:23] only one little land that is 10,000 square miles as opposed to 10 million square miles,
[00:36:31] and he said, that is your land.
[00:36:34] And yet, many of the nations of the world, Mosul nations of the world, they want it all.
[00:36:40] They feel it's all theirs, and so they're trying to take everything God gave to them and bless them with
[00:36:48] and what God gave to the Jewish people.
[00:36:52] And God said he's not going to let them do that.
[00:36:56] This is God's purpose and plan to call our people home physically and to restore us physically
[00:37:02] and to restore us spiritually.
[00:37:05] The spiritual revival of our Jewish people is underway now, and then God says,
[00:37:12] when all of Israel is saved, he is going to return to this earth and set up his kingdom in Jerusalem and Israel.
[00:37:19] So, I mean, the devil understands that, and he hates our Jewish people,
[00:37:25] and that's what anti-Semitism is all about because his faith is tied up in that plan,
[00:37:32] and he's trying to make God out to be a liar.
[00:37:36] So you're seeing unbelievable, Liberty, how the media is pushing the lies concerning the Jewish people,
[00:37:47] concerning the nation of Israel.
[00:37:50] Here the terrorists are sponsoring all of their evil deeds out of hospitals, out of every home,
[00:37:58] using civilians as a shield.
[00:38:00] It doesn't matter.
[00:38:02] The media will not cover it truthfully.
[00:38:07] They are pushing a propaganda line against the nation of Israel.
[00:38:12] It is shocking, but yet this isn't a surprise because in the word of God, in the book of Zechariah,
[00:38:22] all of the nations will eventually turn against Israel, and then God will intervene directly.
[00:38:29] As it says in the book of Zechariah 12, he's going to intervene directly and deal with it.
[00:38:35] Yes, and I'm glad you mentioned that because it's an example of something we were talking about earlier in the show,
[00:38:41] the importance of not getting your information and your understanding of the world from the media or any of the other sources,
[00:38:50] but we need to go to the word of God to really understand truth from his perspective.
[00:38:56] And I also wanted to ask you, you know, obviously there's a lot to be frustrated about.
[00:39:01] There's much to pray for, but have you seen Jesus moving in Israel right now despite all the trauma?
[00:39:09] What are you seeing in terms of people coming to faith in Christ and his church being on the move there?
[00:39:19] Well, God promises that in the latter days he would pour out his spirit upon our people again.
[00:39:27] And certainly in the first century our people experienced the outpouring of the spirit as you see in the book of Acts.
[00:39:37] And they took the gospel and the good news of the God of Israel and of the Messiah of Israel
[00:39:44] out into the Greek and Roman world to India, to Africa, to Europe.
[00:39:50] They took the good news out and spread all over the world.
[00:39:55] But in the latter days, God says, I will pour out my spirit again, not just physically, physically bringing us home, but also spiritually.
[00:40:05] That was the key.
[00:40:06] That's the key prophetic event.
[00:40:08] And since, let's say, the turn of the century, but especially since the Jesus People Revival and the late 60s,
[00:40:18] Messianic Judaism is the fastest growing stream of Jewish faith in the world.
[00:40:26] I mean, it has grown from almost nothing to now probably a million and a half to two million just in the United States alone,
[00:40:35] from zero Messianic congregations in 1967 to well over a thousand worldwide.
[00:40:44] I mean, it is growing fast.
[00:40:46] The revival is growing amongst our people.
[00:40:50] Even in Israel, there's over 300 Messianic congregations there of large and small size.
[00:40:57] So the spiritual equation is flowering just as the physical equation is spreading out.
[00:41:04] So is the spiritual equation.
[00:41:07] And there's much to be encouraged by because he is not returning liberty until we as a people say,
[00:41:17] blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.
[00:41:20] Absolutely.
[00:41:21] Such encouragement to hear how the Lord is moving.
[00:41:25] And so if people have, you know, as I'm sure they are interested by what you've talked about
[00:41:31] and the important work that the Joseph Project International is doing,
[00:41:34] what's the number one thing that they can do to support you right now?
[00:41:38] Well, we would encourage them to please stand with us.
[00:41:41] We are your boots in the ground.
[00:41:43] Go to www.josephproject.org.
[00:41:48] O-R-G.
[00:41:49] That's www.josephproject.org.
[00:41:54] You can go there.
[00:41:55] You can stand with us.
[00:41:57] You can contribute.
[00:41:58] And we will bring the aid to our people in this critical hour.
[00:42:06] Wonderful.
[00:42:06] And if you forget that, then you can also go to pointofview.net.
[00:42:09] We've got the website linked there.
[00:42:11] Thank you so much for joining Point of View today, Joel.
[00:42:14] Thank you so much.
[00:42:15] And God bless you and shalom to everyone.
[00:42:18] Thank you.
[00:42:19] It's been a privilege to be with you on Point of View today.
[00:42:22] I've been sitting in for Kirby Anderson.
[00:42:24] Don't forget, follow us on social media.
[00:42:27] Go to pointofview.net.
[00:42:29] If you missed any part of the interview today, we had some great guests
[00:42:33] and just really important topics and resources for you to take advantage of.
[00:42:37] I also encourage you to tune back in tomorrow because Dr. Merrill Matthews
[00:42:41] will host the weekend edition.
[00:42:43] You won't want to miss that.
[00:42:44] He will be joined by Kelly Shackelford and Jeremy Dice of First Liberty Institute.
[00:42:50] Don't forget, you can find more about some other ministry work that I do at knowypodcast.com.
[00:42:56] Thanks again for being here with me today.
[00:43:00] And thanks for listening to Point of View.
[00:43:02] Tune back in for the weekend edition tomorrow.
[00:43:03] It almost seems like we live in a different world from many people in positions of authority.
[00:43:17] They say men can be women and women men.
[00:43:20] People are prosecuted differently or not at all depending on their politics.
[00:43:25] Criminals are more valued and rewarded than law-abiding citizens.
[00:43:30] It's so overwhelming, so demoralizing.
[00:43:33] You feel like giving up.
[00:43:35] But we can't.
[00:43:36] We shouldn't.
[00:43:37] We must not.
[00:43:39] As Winston Churchill said to Britain in the darkest days of World War II,
[00:43:43] never give in.
[00:43:44] Never give in.
[00:43:46] Never, never, never.
[00:43:47] Never yield to force.
[00:43:49] Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
[00:43:53] And that's what we say to you today.
[00:43:56] This is not a time to give in, but to step up and join Point of View in providing clarity in the chaos.
[00:44:03] We can't do it alone, but together, with God's help, we will overcome the darkness.
[00:44:10] Invest in biblical clarity today at pointofview.net or call 1-800-347-5151.
[00:44:19] Pointofview.net and 800-347-5151.
[00:44:28] Point of View is produced by Point of View Ministries.