Point of View October 1, 2024 – Hour 2 : The Intersection of Theology and Economics

[00:00:03] [SPEAKER_00]: ive the cross of America.

[00:00:06] [SPEAKER_00]: 該 this is Point of View 。

[00:00:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Fans from just a little bit of time talking about the campaign and the debate taking place tonight

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_03]: and then the last half of this hour will be talking with Dr. David Cutter about the intersection

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_03]: of Theology and Economics, even though that sounds real academic I think he will do

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_03]: a good job of explaining how we can evaluate from a biblical point of view need to evaluate

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_03]: various economic policies and before I get into the debate itself, I thought I might just

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_03]: mention one very important issue and that is when you are evaluating a president or

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_03]: vice president or when you're evaluating a governor.

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_03]: As I've said before, of course you want to look at character and policies but you also

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_03]: want to look at personnel.

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And when you're talking about the president of the United States and in this case we're

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_03]: going to be talking about the vice president of the United States as well, that individual

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_03]: those two individuals, that administration will actually be responsible for essentially

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_03]: hiring.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Are you ready for this?

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Almost 5,000 individuals in various levels of government.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Do over a like an eight-year period sometimes it's almost 10,000 because a lot of these

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_03]: terms expire.

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And we're talking about everything from the chairman of the Federal Reserve, my commentary

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_03]: yesterday, talk about the Federal Reserve to the individuals that sit on the Federal

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Elections Commission, the Federal Trade Commission for those of us broadcasting course

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_03]: the idea, the broadcasting areas and things of that nature, all sorts of aspects of

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_03]: the cabinet and other positions as well.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_03]: So, and just a minute I'm going to talk about another one.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_03]: The food and drug administration, the FDA as well as the whole area of the department

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_03]: of home-line security and department of education and welfare and on and on.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we're talking about so many different departments.

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_03]: So you really need to sort of pay attention not only to who you are putting in that office,

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_03]: but who they would be likely to put in position.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And once again, you don't have to guess.

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_03]: This is a very unusual circumstance where you have the current vice president running

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_03]: against the past president.

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_03]: We had something like this in 1984 where you had Walter Mondale who had been a vice president

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_03]: for years before running against Ronald Reagan who was in the mid part of his eight years.

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And so you had a little bit of comparison, but this isn't even closer comparison.

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Who will a Kamala Harris or Tim Walls put in positions?

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that'll come up tonight because you look at some of the people in the government

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_03]: there in Minnesota and you can get an estimate.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_03]: You can certainly get an estimate of all the people that Biden Harris have put into

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_03]: the administration over the last almost four years and you already know the kind of people

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_03]: that were put into the administration four years ago under the Trump administration.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_03]: But there's a few wild cards and one of those is a man by the name of Robert F. Kennedy Jr

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_03]: because he has decided that he is going to work with the Trump administration.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And he has actually gone out and speaking just a minute I'm going to mention some of the things

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_03]: he said at one of the rallies, but because there is some discussion about whether or not Donald Trump

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_03]: would place him in a position of authority.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And it could be at the FDA, it could be at a variety of different positions.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_03]: It I think raises us an interesting question.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_03]: But don't take my word for it Joe Rogan the other day, podcaster himself, said that one

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_03]: of the things that a number of people were excited about is that Donald Trump was working with

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Tulsi Gabbard and Robert Kennedy and that that really kind of got people surprised.

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_03]: But then he started talking about Robert Kennedy because here is an outsider who has kind of the

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_03]: idea that make American healthy again. And he says, how could this have even happened?

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Because he says you were talking about going up against these companies

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_03]: that have been donating to these political parties forever and have allowed them to have

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_03]: these regulations and are allowing them to have these dyes and food that's illegal in our

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_03]: brain, brain, canada and how in the world would this after happen? But he's in some respects saying

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_03]: that really is amazing that you could actually have somebody like Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_03]: serve in the administration because if you listen to any of the interviews, Robert F. Kennedy has

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_03]: given recently, he's talked about the fact that for the last 19 years, he's prayed that God would

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_03]: him in a position to deal with the chronic health issues that are affecting even as he talks

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_03]: about his own family. And so that is something that he actually would never have thought he would do

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_03]: through a Republican administration because Kennedy's or lifelong Democrats. But he also tells

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_03]: the story interestingly enough of in 2016, really dismissing the idea of the mega and the

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_03]: totales they gathered and said that this woman who had served in the military was willing to

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_03]: put her life on the line for the country was a Russian plant. That really kind of challenged him.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And if you've watched more recently, Robert F. Kennedy has said, you know, the concerns that he

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_03]: has is if you actually, and he has a video where he's pictured down the supermarket aisle,

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_03]: then shows you Doritos, Cheeseets, Captain Crunch, gummy bears. He says everyone knows that these are

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_03]: young foods. Well, so many people wouldn't be too surprised then to see that the ingredients also

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_03]: include a lot of poisons, including one that he actually highlights. That's the yellow die,

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_03]: which is a yellow die number five called Tetrazin. And actually it was originally made from

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_03]: he says the sludge that's left over when you turn coal into coke. And he says, interestingly enough,

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_03]: over the past 16 years, the government has banned eight chemical additives that either cause cancer,

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_03]: or genetic damage or asthma are many of the other conditions as Tetrazin does. But he says,

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_03]: what's interesting is all eight of those crucial steps in banning those things that would hurt

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_03]: you and your kids health all took place under Donald Trump. And he said, you know, the Democrats

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_03]: often times claimed to be concerned about the health care, but he could not even get a meeting

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_03]: with a comalageras. And yet it looks like he might even be willing to work within the Trump

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_03]: administration. So it's a good example of the fact that when you evaluate a candidate,

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_03]: don't even just look at their character and their policies. But if they have an executive position,

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_03]: whether president or governor, you have to look at who they're going to put in office

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_03]: alongside them to implement their policy. And I think that's one of those places where we really

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_03]: have something else that we should think about. Even tonight, recognizing that both of these individuals,

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_03]: if they Democrats are elected, Tim Walsh is going to have to be out there trying to explain

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_03]: the administration's policies. If Donald Trump is elected, certainly, J.D. Vance is going to have

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_03]: to be out there trying to explain those various policies. And don't forget the fact that they

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_03]: also cast the tie vote. And when it came to the so-called inflation reduction act, remember who cast

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_03]: the tie vote? Well, that was common here. So for people that say the vice president is insignificant,

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_03]: not necessarily, which is indeed why this debate tonight is going to be really important.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And why we'll spend some time talking about it tomorrow. I also when we come back,

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_03]: we're going to talk about the way in which I think J.D. Vance is going to be put on the spot

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_03]: about Springfield, Ohio. Bring you some update on that right after this. This is Vue Ponce

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_03]: with Kirby Anderson. More than a decade ago when I was teaching a class on creation

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_03]: heard about some Christians who believed in the flat Earth, I was aware that some people were

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_03]: online promoting a flatter theory, but assume they might just be evolutionist trying to mock

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Christians. Apparently there is a percentage of Christians who believe in a flat Earth,

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_03]: deny that men walked on the moon and even deny the whole cost ever occurred. One flat Earth

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_03]: documentary denies the existence of other planets, and denies that stars are far away. As you

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_03]: would imagine it requires a lot of mental gymnastics to reject the established facts of science

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_03]: in history. Long before we had the pictures of Earth from space we had evidence of the Earth's

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_03]: curvature, this included the shadow of the Earth on the moon during a lunar eclipse,

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_03]: and the observation from people who had watched ships sail off in the distance

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_03]: and then slowly sink below the horizon. Of course we have so many other pieces of evidence,

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I've had an astronaut who walked on the moon in my Sunday school class, I've had another

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_03]: who held the record until recently suspending the greatest number of days in the International

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Space Station, and all of us have pictures and videos of the Earth from space. Nevertheless,

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_03]: some Christians take Bible verses out of context like Job 38, or they quote from a

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_03]: non-biblical source like the Book of Inak, a recent al-Molar podcast had a question from

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_03]: someone who asked if a man who believed in a flat Earth should be disqualified from being

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_03]: an elder in the church. Dr. Danny Faulkner of Answers in Genesis is written about the flat Earth

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_03]: phenomenon and apparently has a book coming out on the subject that might be a good resource

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_03]: to share with a flat Earther, though I fear it won't make much of a difference. I'm Kirby Anderson

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and that's my point of view. For a free copy of Kirby's booklet, a biblical view on

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_01]: critical race theory, go to viewpoints.info slash CRT. You're listening to point of view,

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_00]: you're listening to supported source for truth. Now once again, this if we can't talk about

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_03]: this vice presidential debate in a topic that is certain to come up, springfield O'Hile,

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_03]: from the one you need to talk about this for some time and again, I want to give you some

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_03]: information that probably has not been well covered by the media, but you are well aware of

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_03]: the fact that during the presidential debate Donald Trump said their eating was at dogs, I guess

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_03]: is what he said, but then also cats and everything else. And then the question was then raised

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_03]: to the vice president, nominee JD Vance, what about this? Well, on CNN, this is what he said.

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm giving you an exact quote, JD Vance said, if I have to create stories so that the American

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_03]: media actually pays attention to the suffering of the American people, then that's what I'm going

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_03]: to do. It's here sounded to a lot of us like he was saying, well even if I have to lie about this

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_03]: in order to get you to investigate that that's worthwhile. Now that's what he said on September

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_03]: 15th, people are allowed to sometimes come back and correct themselves or clarify it,

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_03]: and he was not making things up, but he was. And I think everybody could honestly say was

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_03]: amplifying unverified stories. And there was some evidence even if the time that they weren't

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_03]: true. Is that fair? That's about as fair as I can make it. And again, one article here I've

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_03]: got in front of me says Springfield has attracted national media tension in recent weeks over reports

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_03]: that some of the Haitians were stealing and eating pets in waterfell. But the residents say

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_03]: the more pressing issue has been the reckless driving. One Springfield residents estimated

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_03]: that there are four to five accidents a day caused by Haitian immigrants who are actually

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_03]: driving, but don't really understand some of the basic traffic laws. One individual said

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_03]: the Haitians just don't know our laws. They're causing accidents all the time. They just need

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_03]: to learn the laws of the road. They need some schooling, but there are some stories of individuals,

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_03]: parents and others that are saying I just want to keep my kids off because I just don't know

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_03]: how dangerous it might be. So one of the issues that certainly will be raised is

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_03]: J.D. Vance are you now saying that you can just lie about a story in order to get the media

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_03]: to follow that? And I think that will be a reasonable question to ask him to clarify tonight.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Another one that is related is there have been a number of media reports

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_03]: that are arguing that these Haitians are here legally. And that is an example of something which

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_03]: is true, but may be misleading. Let me again read from the city of Springfield, Ohio itself.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay? City of Springfield and this is, quote, has experienced a surge in our population of the

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_03]: last several years primarily due to an influx of legal immigrants choosing Springfield,

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Ohio as their new home and the website refers to them as legal immigrants. What about that?

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_03]: First of all, trying to get a number is interesting because Clark County, which is situated

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_03]: kind of between Columbus and Dayton, our listeners in Ohio know exactly what we're talking about,

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_03]: the county estimates that the number of Haitians are about 12,000 to 15,000 and yet there are

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_03]: others that have looked at this one state representative for Springfield says that number is closer to

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_03]: 20,000. Whatever number you use, the 2020 census the city's total population is 58,000. So imagine

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_03]: if you're in a city that doesn't even have 60,000 and you bring 20,000 more into that city or that

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_03]: town, you can see the disruption especially if indeed these are individuals that maybe don't

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_03]: understand your culture don't understand your laws. But what about this idea of legal?

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Well it turns out that if you go back to the actual structure under which they were brought into Springfield,

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_03]: it's part of what is called temporary protected status, TPS. The temporary protected status was

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_03]: something that was implemented all the way back I think in actually 1990 by George Herbert Walker

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Bush. I can at least take it back that far and the idea was as if we have a hurricane that comes

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_03]: through Puerto Rico, the Dominion Republic, Haiti, whatever it might be or of course what we just

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_03]: had a hurricane that just devastated parts of the southeast part of the United States but especially

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_03]: people in other countries that we could bring them here under temporary protected status because

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_03]: this under this and I'm reading from this particular legal document said the president can assign

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_03]: to nationals of designated countries for temporary periods if wars, natural disasters or

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_03]: their one-off events render their country incapable of a time of reabsorbing them. So they were

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_03]: brought under what's called temporary protective status but the word temporary has virtually no meaning.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Why is that? Under this administration individuals then are brought into a port of entry

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_03]: and then released with a notice to appear later but of course they in many cases don't have

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_03]: to because it's only temporary so eventually that temporary means that you will then go back to the

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_03]: country where there was a disaster or war or something of that nature and that never really takes place.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_03]: A good example of that is the fact that under the Trump administration there were people that were

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_03]: here from El Salvador for many years and it was time for the government to resettle if people

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_03]: from El Salvador back to El Salvador and the argument could be made that of the president bukelli

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_03]: has actually been able to put many of those gang related individuals in prison. The economy is

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_03]: doing much better they also have Bitcoin as their established currency and they've also been able

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_03]: to fund themselves without some loans with the international monetary funds so in some respects

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_03]: El Salvador's looking a lot better so the argument is it's time to resettle those people back to their

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_03]: country of origin. It turns out the administration at that time the people of part of the

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_03]: what we call the deep stage you sort of slow walk that then you there were some lawsuits and when

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_03]: of course Joe Biden and Kamal Harris came into office they completely reversed all of that and those

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_03]: people so called temporary individuals looks like they'll be here permanently and that brings to the

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_03]: other issue. The Biden administration has what is called parole and so over these last three and

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_03]: half years the Biden administration has provided parole for Cubans, Haitians, Nicaragua,

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Venice, Whalians and that's where we have this today so even though true these Haitian nationals

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_03]: are under what is called temporary protected status and theoretically they're permitted to stay in the

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_03]: country up until February of 2026. I think the reality is unless there's a change of the administration

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_03]: then they are going to be here and so in some respects they are legal in the sense that they're

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_03]: temporary protected status but isn't necessarily true that they are going to actually be

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_03]: individuals that should be returned even though they have. The other aspect of that again I'm going into

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_03]: the detail because you won't get this anywhere else is that we have had an incredible number of Haitians

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_03]: that have actually come into the port of entry and as a result in January 2023 the White House

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_03]: announced that its immigration policy would allow 5,000 Haitians to actually come in but the

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_03]: number very quickly rose to 14,000 with no one putting a cap on it and so in total now we have

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_03]: already for these numbers 350,000 illegal aliens from Haiti if you want to count those who have

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_03]: come to the border not under the temporary protected status and also one count those under temporary

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_03]: protected status and as a result we are dealing with a lot more than just the so-called 20,000 in springfield

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_03]: anyway there has been an attempt to try to create a ceiling on that but that is not happened under this

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_03]: administration nor I guess would that surprise you and light of the as we documented yesterday

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_03]: anywhere from 10 million to more that have crossed the border illegally so there is the situation we

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_03]: find ourselves in right now and it as I think an illustration of the fact that yes the city of springfield

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_03]: and the administration is true in saying that they're legal immigrants but they are supposed to be

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_03]: temporary legal immigrants who eventually will be returned back to their country does anybody seriously

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_03]: think that's going to happen so the word temporary protected status has been superseded by the word

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_03]: rolled and that's exactly what's taking place in this administration we'll see if some of that

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_03]: gets covered tonight I think JD van says one time in a press conference try to explain some of that

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_03]: but trying to explain it in two minutes soundbite pretty tough to do so I wanted you to at least know

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_03]: that's some of the information we think we wanted to provide to you today we come back let's talk

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_03]: about the intersection of theology and economics if you'd like to know a little bit more about some

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_03]: of these issues we've been talking about today lots of great material on our website at point of view

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_03]: dot net but also click on that button that says donate if you would like to support this ministry

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_01]: we'll be back right after this many years ago they began saying that we live in the information age well

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_01]: today there is so much information coming at us from every direction the hardest thing is to

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_01]: discern which issues are really important and how can I make a positive impact without wasting my

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_01]: time trying to figure out accurate information let me give you a suggestion to help with that visit

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_01]: point of view dot net look at the tabs across the top find the one named viewpoints curvy

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Anderson and others on our team are constantly watching for news to identify those issues that

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_01]: you really need to know about they boil things down in a brief summary and then you can decide

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_01]: if it's something on which you want to learn more and get involved again when you go to point

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_01]: of view dot net click on viewpoints you'll see exactly what I mean you'll see the issues that we

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[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_01]: the views of the management or staff of the station and now here again is pervy Anderson.

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Back once again let me just mention that one of the things we did not get to but you can certainly

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_03]: read on your own is a good piece by Colonel Alan West in which just as I was raising some questions

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_03]: about JD van she raises lots of questions about governor Tim Walson of course some of those

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_03]: questions may surface tonight we'll talk about some of that tomorrow if you don't get to all of it on

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_03]: our Friday weekend edition we'll talk about the impact of the vice presidential debate tonight

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_03]: and what is happening in the campaign but if you've been listening to point of view for any length

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_03]: of time you know that we'd like to cover some of these economic issues because after all if it

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_03]: affects your finances and it affects your faith that is really important and we recognize as a

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_03]: real need to try to integrate our biblical worldview with our economic perspective I've written

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_03]: some books and articles about that as well and so we wanted to bring to the microphone Dr. David

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Cotter he is the dean of the school of theology at Colorado Christian University we mentioned

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_03]: that the other day when we were talking about least trouble center at the Colorado Christian

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_03]: University when he was on the program it's also fell at the Centennial Institute and is an

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_03]: individual that co-founded the faith and work project also seeing your research fellow at the

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Institute for Faith Work and Economics and you might remember we've interviewed people like

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Anne Bradley art lensy even one of the individuals as a visiting scholar JP Morlin and some others in

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_03]: course one of the other visiting scholars is Dr. David Cotter who again started out as a financial

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_03]: analyst at Ford also has a theology degree and in some respects maybe one of the best people to

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_03]: talk to about the intersection of theology and economics so Dr. Cotter thank you for joining us

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_02]: today here on point of view thank you so much for having me on the program I'm so happy to be here

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I was thinking of the challenge that you have mentioned before you came on we have on this program

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_03]: identified very easily the level of biblical literacy in this country and I think I've documented

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_03]: pretty well when we've talked about some of the economic issues a level of economic literacy

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_03]: so if nothing else you've got your work cut out for you in some respects it's job security because

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_02]: there's just a lot of work to do isn't there absolutely absolutely in fact I'm happy to

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_02]: follow in the footsteps of Anne Bradley and art lensy they've been good colleagues of mine for

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_02]: 13 years now so I can sit here for patriotic economics let's say if I can also since we're talking

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_03]: about Colorado Christian University they did have mentioned that we had a young girl in our

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_03]: neighborhood that's going to the school there next fall and I was talking about the opportunity to study

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_03]: with some of the individuals there including you and of course the uh least strobal center but

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_03]: talk about that because it's becoming a place where if individuals really are interested in

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_03]: trying to integrate their biblical worldview with all of the academic disciplines you seem really

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_02]: dedicated to trying to make that happen absolutely here at CCU we are we are quite centered higher

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_02]: education impacting students to transform the world with grace and truth and that is something

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_02]: that's not just on our website but something that did all of our classrooms so every student

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_02]: this the young woman you know who's coming in the fall you'll have five courses whether she's an

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_02]: engineer a biologist in the school of education you'll have five courses in the school of

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_02]: theology to study the new testament the old testament theology philosophy from a Christian world view

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_02]: which is important and and world religion and so we just don't have students who are

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_02]: camping out on our campus protesting for power of time because every one of them studies the

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_02]: history and literature of ancient Israel so they know what the Jordan River is and where the

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Mediterranean Sea is and so forth so absolutely this we can't talk about some of the introductory

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_03]: material that you need to cover it seems to me I'll start off with one human nature if you believe

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_03]: the human beings have a sin nature then you certainly don't want to have too much political power

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_03]: in the hands of individuals which is why we have checks and balances in our government a

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_03]: republic but also you don't want too much economic power in the hands of individuals hence you know

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Adam Smith writing the wealth of nations in 1776 so it seems to me that if you start with a

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_03]: local view of human nature you can eliminate a lot of economic theories and ideas because they were

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_03]: based upon maybe a utopian view of human nature and really if we start with a Christian view of

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_03]: human nature we can begin to make some wise decisions about various kinds of economic policies

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_02]: can't wait. You are absolutely correct about that and you just picked for the example my

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_02]: dissertation was on the distinction between greed and self interest and so greed is a sin self

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_02]: interest is assumed in the Bible. He says don't store treasures on earth store treasures in heaven

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_02]: where moss and rust don't destroy them and so it's in your best interest to choose this type of

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_02]: treasure versus the other and for an economic system we we want to assume that people will be

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_02]: greedy in the fallen world so we want an economic system that will channel that greed into serving

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_02]: other people when trying free markets will do that so even if my butcher and my candle maker are

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_02]: greedy they can't charge me whatever they want in a free market because there's competition out there

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and I have choices to place this to go. On the other hand communism and socialism are hotbed

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_02]: for corruption and the channel greed in ways that can be stopped. You're exactly right on

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_03]: understanding of the image. Adam Smith put it this way is not from the benevolence of the butcher

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_03]: the brewer the baker that we expect our dinner but from regard to their own interest then

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_03]: goes on to talk about the fact that it's in their interest to produce a good product

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_03]: and they're let almost by what he called an invisible hand and in some respects that as again

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_03]: the difference it's in myself interest to go out and get a job but I can do that in ways that

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_03]: are not greedy it's in myself interest to eat and maybe even to take one of the slices of pie

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_03]: in the refrigerator and not be greedy by taking all of the pie for myself because the other

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_03]: members of the family need to eat so there is a sense in which this distinction seems to be lost

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_03]: on the Bernie Sanders the Alexandria or Cossack courtesans because as soon as they say well

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_03]: there's self interest will they almost immediately believe that bleeds and agreed and that's

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_03]: really of course I'm talking to a guy that just wrote a dissertation on it very different kind of

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_03]: concept you can do things in yourself interest that are maybe even altruistic and helping

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_03]: other individuals why you're pursuing your own self interest. You are absolutely correct about

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_02]: that and I love the quote this is you just stated from Adam Smith and I had the privilege

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_02]: of teaching on Adam Smith even though in the Dean of the School of Geology I just graduated

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_02]: at economics as well and we partner with the Rennet Trust who brought in a first edition 1776

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_02]: of Adam Smith wealth of nations so that as I was teaching I read that very quote from the original

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_02]: print of Adam Smith and we're going to I would actually this month are bringing 10 more fundamental

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_02]: books that are first edition all the way from a 1240 illuminated manuscript that the fall gate

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_02]: to William Wilbur for us on the slave trade from 1807 and so we believe both in the economic

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_02]: principles you're talking about but also the Bible and you know these great books that have shaped

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_02]: the world and we love to have our students hold those in their hand. You know again 1776 pretty

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_03]: good year declaration of independence wealth of nations I think even Jeremy Benton had a work at

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_03]: that time but you when you think of Adam Smith and we'll move on I of course in graduate school

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_03]: had to read the theory of moral sentiments also the wealth of nations and I think bringing back

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_03]: to this key point Dr. Cotter when we talk about economics we see that in a secular way

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_03]: but Adam Smith was really a moral philosopher and so in some respects you're trying to recapture

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_02]: what he used to exist in the 18th century. Absolutely that's also true in fact I would argue

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_02]: theory more sentiments was his better book more insightful will he's most famous and it's still

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_02]: in print with wealth of nations which is not not a small feat in its own self but I would just

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_02]: arrive as a moral philosopher at a biblical understanding of human beings and so by doing that

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_02]: it resonates with his readers it has positive effects and an economic sense and that's why

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_02]: that book is still in print you know silver to almost 250 years after its first publication.

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Well let's take a break and we come back and we're going to talk a little bit more about some

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_03]: other key principles in economics and of course you've heard individuals argue that well

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_03]: a Christian really needs to be as socialist because if you look at x4 and 5 they held

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_03]: property and common of course I've addressed that on some of my booklets on both socialism and

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_03]: capitalism and interestingly enough will be in the next couple of days probably talking about this

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_03]: new video that came out from John Stossel about really socialism makes people greedy

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_03]: which is just the opposite of what Karl Marx taught and that is his argument is the reason people

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_03]: are greedy is because capitalism makes people greedy but I think you can see the fallacy of that

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_03]: but we need to take a break and when you would come back from the break I want to talk about those

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_03]: issues but also for young people that may be or thinking about wanting to get a good Christian education

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_03]: we from time to time highlight some very good schools and one of those is Colorado Christian University

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_03]: and we've already talked about it but I want to come back maybe we can talk about some of the

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_03]: things we could learn if we set in the classes with the Dr David Carter will continue that

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_00]: conversation right after this you're listening to point of view your listener supported source

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_03]: or truth to the interconversation for a few more minutes with Dr David Carter Dean of the School

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_03]: of Theology at Colorado Christian University also an individual that is the co-founder of Faith

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Work Project and of course a research fellow for the Institute for Faith Work and Economics

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_03]: we have a link to that website a link to his website as well and Dr Carter for just a minute

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_03]: let's if we can talk about economics it's oftentimes called the dismal science and of course

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_03]: one of the standard definitions of economics is the issue of dealing with scarcity that is we have

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_03]: unlimited once but we have limited resources but I think some people take that to an extreme

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_03]: and assume that everything in the economy is a zero-sum game this is the argument you sometimes get

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_03]: of will look how wealthy these people are well in order to be wealthy they took something from an

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_03]: individual and I recognize if you have a fixed pie and somebody takes more of their pie will

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_03]: okay that's greed and that's where they are baby involved in injustice but many cases the pie

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_03]: is in fixed it expands there are all sorts of things that are really are freed up especially

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_03]: in a free market system in which those resources can expand dramatically and it seems to me

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_03]: that that's one of the fundamental arguments of socialism that we have a fixed pie

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_03]: and so we have to limit everybody versus a free market which says no we have the possibility

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_03]: in many resources to expand that pie what are your thoughts oh I completely I think that's a very

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_02]: important point and you can go straight back to the Bible when you look at every person who is described

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_02]: as being wealthy in the Bible and where we have recorded how they obtained that well universally

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_02]: those who have gotten their wealth from a zero-sum game they're always

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_02]: uh, excoriated they're always spoken of badly but those who have positive some games

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_02]: who have obtained their wealth by trading by farming, by fishing not at the expense of anyone else

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_02]: those person is always commended so Job very wealthy, Abraham very wealthy from farming and

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_02]: hurting you have Isaac specifically in Genesis there's a planted describes in the Lord gave him

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_02]: 100 full time so he became wealthy but no one lost money from that but in James 4 the the rich man

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_02]: it says that the wages he did not pay his workers were crying out again that's his heroist

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_02]: again or in the minor prophets when they take from widows their houses that's a zero-sum game

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_02]: every time the Bible speaks negatively of that so yeah I think we should we not those into

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_02]: the Marxist we can just read our Bible for clarity and his amazing how many times Jesus when

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_03]: he used in illustration in the parables a lot of them were economic and the Bible probably

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_03]: talks more about money than even talks about things like love and grace and things of that nature

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_03]: but I did mention a minute ago one that I thought I'm sure you've had to address over the years

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_03]: we'll have young people they'll read through the book of Acts and they'll say well Acts 5

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_03]: and it talks about the fact that the possessions of the early church this sort of economic queen in

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_03]: near were all held in common and so as a result they say well that illustrates that we should be

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_03]: engaged in socialism but it seems to me all through the Bible there is an emphasis on property

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_03]: and even when Peter is bringing judgment down on Ananias he says even though you kept

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_03]: back some of the money you received for the land did it all belong to you before it was sold

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_03]: so even the passage that has oftentimes used to justify socialism starts with the assumption

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_03]: that you have private property and that property that you own you can do with as you please

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_03]: but the issue was the deception that is the judgment we see in Acts 5 but what do you thoughts?

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I agree with that in fact I'm assigning to my students this very semester they'll have a paper on

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Acts chapter two versus 42 through 47 where this is a dress and in fact the best commentary on that

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I've ever seen is from art lensly in the book we did at the Institute for Paper Paper

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Economics on for the least of these where he has a chapter devoted to this and the key verse is

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_02]: verse 45 in chapter two of Acts they were selling their possessions and belonging and distributing

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_02]: the proceeds to all as any had need and the Marxist will get the as any had need part of that

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_02]: but the real place is to start they were selling their possessions and volunteering it voluntarily

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_02]: so Exodus chapter 20 verse 15 says you show much heal so all the way back to Mount Sinai

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_02]: the concept of personal property rights was established in the very 10 commandments themselves

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_02]: so it's one thing I strongly encourage people to be generous and to share with the poor

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I go out so there's a nice with our so-called generous street ministry where we give food from our

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_02]: backpack to homeless people who are hungry in downtown Denver so generosity is great

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_02]: but it's a voluntary generosity not coercion from government or through third parties

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_02]: as a large government or Marxist viewpoint might have. I just mentioned again that book

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_03]: for the least of these a biblical answer to poverty and it's written by Anne Bradley in art lensly

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_03]: forward by Arthur Brooks all three of whom of course have been on the program

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_03]: and it really focuses on this whole idea of a biblical view of how to address this issue of

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_03]: poverty it's published by the end of any might be able to find it still in your bookstore else you

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_03]: could probably order it and it's just another great resource that comes from the Institute for

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Faithwork and Economics so just before I go David how can people contact you and what could

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_03]: maybe they learn if indeed they would like to learn more about economics but maybe aren't able

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_03]: perhaps go to Colorado Christian University but like to learn more about some of the

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_03]: very important economic principles that you're looking at from a biblical point of view.

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah well I would just do that they couldn't we have CCU online is as in roll over 10,000 students

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_02]: who are taking degree programs and also just individual classes where they can integrate their

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_02]: with economics and other fields like nursing and education and so forth but they can

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_02]: reach out to me at the coder at CCU.edu for specific and teach at summer ministries

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_02]: and just with our students here even at Colorado Christian University we love every part of that

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_02]: name orado even as we're speaking I'm looking at the Rocky Mountain that might window

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_02]: of my office it's a beautiful campus to be at where a Christian University in substance not just

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_02]: on our website and we are a university where students are being trained and challenged with

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_02]: rigorous academic actually go out and get jobs where they can create wealth and be generous

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_03]: and contribute back to this great nation. Again it's located at Lakewood Colorado and again the

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_03]: CCU.edu can't be an easier than at CCU.edu there's an online degree there all sorts of

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_03]: other ways you can participate for those of you listening to us in Colorado and those areas or

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_03]: even anywhere in the country where you're a student you could certainly attend in person but also

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_03]: you can learn more online and so Dr. Connor appreciate you really working in this whole area of

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_02]: how to do that look forward to it. Thank you so much. Well it's again mentioned that tonight is a

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_03]: vice presidential debate just a couple of issues first of all I didn't get to the piece by Adam

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_03]: excuse me Ellen West Colonel West gave us a good to kind of analysis and some of the

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_03]: questions that need to be asked of Tim Walsh but I wanted to at least focus on the JD van story

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_03]: and springfield Ohio there's an article we've posted here America's young men are falling even

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_03]: further behind might postpone that to Friday I think it might be a good conversation we're going

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_03]: to have with some of our guests there on our weekend edition so that is the case but as we go off

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_03]: the air one last time let me just encourage you that if you'd like to talk to someone maybe

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_03]: ask a little bit more about how you can support this ministry 800 347 5151 we had truth team last

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_03]: week and we're working to try to finish off that goal and I'm excited about the number of people

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_03]: that have responded but there's still room for you as well when I thank Megan for all

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_03]: engineering the programs Steve thank you for producing the program we'll see back here tomorrow

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_01]: right here. I'm point of view it almost seems like we live in a different world from many people

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and positions of authority they say men can be women and women men people are prosecuted differently

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_01]: or not at all depending on their politics criminals are more valued and rewarded than law

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_01]: fighting citizens it's overwhelming so demoralizing you feel like giving up but we can't we shouldn't

[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_01]: we must not as Winston Churchill said to Britain in the darkest days of World War II never given

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_01]: never given never never never never never never yield to force never yield to the apparently

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_01]: overwhelming might of the enemy and that's what we say to you today this is not a time to give in

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_01]: but to step up and join point of view in providing clarity in the chaos we can't do it alone but

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_01]: together with God's help we will overcome the darkness invest in biblical clarity today

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_01]: at point of view dot net or call 1 800 347 51 51 point of view dot net and 800 347 51 51

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_01]: point of view is produced by point of view ministries