Point of View November 26, 2024 – Hour 1 : Caregiving with Grit and Grace

[00:00:04] Across America, Live, this is Point of View, Kirby Anderson. Thank you for joining me. We're going to spend an hour today talking about two topics we've addressed before, caregiving and special needs, and I think you will certainly appreciate that. In terms of caregiving, if you aren't a caregiver right now, you will be. And if you don't have a child that has a special need, you probably know someone in your sphere of influence that would benefit from this.

[00:00:41] So I hope that as we go through this, you might think about taking the podcast and sending it on to them as well. This is a topic we have dealt with before. You might remember the interview we did a while back with Pastor Conrad Bales about his book, Counted Worthy, and we talked about some of the special needs issues there, and certainly we would encourage you to go back and find that on our website.

[00:01:04] But we bring to the microphone two individuals that certainly will be helpful to us today. First of all, Jessica or Jess Ronnie, who is an author, caregiver, also the host of the podcast Coffee with Caregivers. She is also the associate producer of a documentary which you might want to see called Unseen, How We're Failing Parent Caregivers and Why It Matters. We of course have a link to JessPlusTheMess.com on the website.

[00:01:32] She's the founder of the Hope Farm. I have a couple of her books here. First of all, The Sunlight Burning at Midnight. I think many of you may have also seen the book Loving with Grit and Grace, but we're going to be talking about this new book, which actually technically isn't released until next week, but you can order it right now, Caregivers Giving with Grit and Grace.

[00:01:51] And she and her husband Ryan live in Holland, Michigan. So Jess, thank you for joining us today here on Point of View.

[00:01:57] Yeah, thanks for having me.

[00:01:59] Let's also introduce, of course, your husband Ryan. Ronnie, who is a husband, father of eight and a special needs advocate.

[00:02:07] Also an individual that we certainly want to hear from as well. So Ryan, thank you for joining us as well.

[00:02:13] Yeah, good to be here.

[00:02:14] Well, before we talk about you and Ryan, I think we have to talk about a few other individuals.

[00:02:19] Your second child, Jess Lucas, and then your husband, Jason, because all that happened before you actually even met Ryan.

[00:02:27] Can you kind of tell us the back story?

[00:02:29] Yeah, I'll give you the Cliff Notes version.

[00:02:32] In 2004, I went to what I thought was a routine ultrasound appointment for my second child,

[00:02:38] and it was there that we were told that he had experienced a stroke in utero,

[00:02:42] and there was very little hope that he would be born alive.

[00:02:46] He hung on the next couple of months, and he was born on August 12, 2004.

[00:02:51] And after spending a few weeks in the NICU, my husband Jason and I were handed our baby, and they said, good luck.

[00:02:58] I didn't even really focus on the fact that he might have special needs or his disabilities.

[00:03:05] I was just thrilled to be going home with my miracle baby, who I had assumed would probably die.

[00:03:12] And then a couple of years later, after having Lucas, we had our daughter Mabel.

[00:03:18] And a few months after Mabel was born, my late husband Jason began having all of these health problems,

[00:03:25] which was really strange.

[00:03:26] He was a personal trainer, a tennis professional, a gym owner, and nobody could figure out what was going on with him.

[00:03:33] And one night he passed out, and after a long evening in the ER, it was determined that he had a brain tumor.

[00:03:41] He would go on to fight brain cancer for three years.

[00:03:44] We would have another child in the middle of that battle.

[00:03:47] But ultimately, he lost his battle with brain cancer on August 24, 2010,

[00:03:52] and I was a young widow with four children under seven years old.

[00:03:57] Well, again, let's, if I can, then bring Ryan into that,

[00:04:00] because Ryan, you lost your wife to cancer, and then we put together a blended family.

[00:04:06] I might just mention also that there is another book, Blended with Grit and Grace,

[00:04:10] so just a whole series of books.

[00:04:12] But Ryan, I'd love to hear your story as well.

[00:04:16] Yeah, it's a little bit different about the same time, though.

[00:04:21] Shortly after my third child was born in December of 2009,

[00:04:28] my wife at the time started getting some headaches and just thought it was part of the pregnancy and the birth,

[00:04:35] and kind of just wrote it off until March, just days after she turned 30.

[00:04:41] She finally did go to the doctor and found out that she had a brain tumor,

[00:04:46] and just a few months later, we lost her.

[00:04:50] So it was a very short battle with an astrocytoma, and it shocked us all.

[00:04:56] It was very quick and pretty painful at the time, and I still had three kids at home.

[00:05:04] The youngest was only eight months old, and my oldest, I think, was just six.

[00:05:09] So, yeah, it was tough.

[00:05:12] So, again, what we're talking about are two individuals that understand what it takes to address caregiving

[00:05:19] and certainly the loss of a spouse and grieving kids in the rest.

[00:05:24] And you raised that just primarily because sometimes when you go and involve yourself with someone

[00:05:32] in terms of counseling or trying to be helpful, they'll say,

[00:05:36] well, you have no idea what I'm going through, and my answer is, no, I don't.

[00:05:40] But I also can point you to some people that probably do have a little bit of an idea of what you've been through

[00:05:46] because, in some respects, you're a fellow traveler, and you could have just walked away and said,

[00:05:51] look, I've got too much here to say grace over, eight children, a new husband, all sorts of other things that are coming,

[00:05:58] but nevertheless founded, of course, the Lucas Project and much more.

[00:06:03] So share a little bit about that vision because before we get into some of the practical stuff,

[00:06:08] I want to know a little bit more about how all of this came to be.

[00:06:12] Well, the Lucas Project was born out of necessity, honestly.

[00:06:17] The thread has always been Lucas and our family, really, for everything that I've created.

[00:06:22] We were desperate for resources.

[00:06:24] We lived in rural Tennessee.

[00:06:26] Lucas was going through puberty.

[00:06:28] He was becoming very challenging, aggressive, behavioral issues, nonverbal, and we were drowning.

[00:06:36] We were isolated.

[00:06:37] There weren't resources.

[00:06:38] There wasn't support.

[00:06:40] And when Lucas was born, I promised him to one day start a nonprofit in his honor,

[00:06:45] always thinking that nonprofit would serve children.

[00:06:48] But as we were floundering so much as caregivers, I realized that somebody needed to help the caregivers.

[00:06:54] So I hopped online, Googled how to start a nonprofit, printed off the papers, and filled them out.

[00:07:01] And a couple weeks later, I was apparently a nonprofit founder.

[00:07:07] And we started offering respite out of a local school district.

[00:07:11] They wanted to partner with us.

[00:07:13] So once a month, we offered five-hour chunks of time to special needs families so that they could take a break.

[00:07:20] And we also took advantage of that time.

[00:07:22] We were just so desperate for some breathing room, for a date night, for a break.

[00:07:27] So, again, everything we've created, the thread has always been us, our family, and our needs.

[00:07:33] And it's just so wonderful to see that it can also bless so many other caregivers and families out there as well.

[00:07:39] So let's take a break.

[00:07:40] And when we come back, we're going to continue our conversation, this new book out, Caregiving with Grit and Grace.

[00:07:46] And we have information about this.

[00:07:48] Of course, we also have a link to Facebook pages, Twitter links, information about the Lucas Project,

[00:07:54] information about the Ronnie family, and much, much more.

[00:07:58] And, again, this is just one of a series of books, which I've already mentioned.

[00:08:01] Of course, Sunlight Burning at Midnight, which was a memoir.

[00:08:04] Of course, we just mentioned Blended with Grit and Grace.

[00:08:08] And, of course, this one, Caregiving with Grit and Grace.

[00:08:11] And, of course, I might also point you to a couple of things.

[00:08:14] First of all, the podcast, and we have a link to that as well.

[00:08:17] Coffee with Caregivers, the documentary, unseen documentary.

[00:08:21] And, of course, we've also talked about the Lucas Project.

[00:08:24] And if all of that's coming fast and furious, the good news is we have all those links that you need on our website at pointofview.net.

[00:08:32] But even at a break, you can go to JessPlusTheMess.com or even, again, find that link on our website.

[00:08:39] Find some of that material.

[00:08:40] Because if you're not a caregiver right now, you will be.

[00:08:43] And most likely, you know someone who would benefit from this.

[00:08:46] So we'll talk more about that right after this.

[00:08:58] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:02] Earlier this month, Dominic Pino wrote about Milton Friedman's revenge.

[00:09:06] His argument was that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris got the economic policy they wanted and the voters hated.

[00:09:12] It's worth looking back to understand why the election went the way that it did.

[00:09:16] Milton Friedman was an economist best known for saying that inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon.

[00:09:22] He believed that inflation occurs when the money supply increases faster than output.

[00:09:27] Four years ago, candidate Joe Biden announced Milton Friedman isn't running the show anymore.

[00:09:32] Of course, Friedman wasn't running the show even before Biden was elected.

[00:09:36] But once Biden was elected, he proceeded to spend money and run up deficits.

[00:09:40] By 2021, the new republic proclaimed the end of Freedomnomics.

[00:09:45] First came the American Rescue Plan Act, followed by the Infrastructure Law, the CHIPS Act,

[00:09:51] and then finally the intentionally misnamed Inflation Reduction Act.

[00:09:54] Biden spent more and more federal money.

[00:09:57] Democrats even invented the word Bidenomics to describe their economic theory.

[00:10:01] The Biden administration ran up budget deficits, which as a share of GDP were greater than those in the Great Depression.

[00:10:08] Rise in inflation was inevitable.

[00:10:10] As I've mentioned in previous commentaries, economist Larry Summers warned that the American Rescue Plan would set off inflationary pressures of a kind we have not seen in a generation.

[00:10:19] Someone should have paid attention to him since he served as Barack Obama's Treasury Secretary.

[00:10:24] But his warning was mocked.

[00:10:26] He was right.

[00:10:27] And the skeptics were wrong.

[00:10:28] When voters were given an opportunity to express their opinion about Bidenomics,

[00:10:33] two-thirds of voters at the exit polls said that the economy was not good or poor.

[00:10:37] That is why we call this Milton Friedman's revenge.

[00:10:41] I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:47] Go deeper on topics like you just heard by visiting pointofview.net.

[00:10:53] That's pointofview.net.

[00:10:57] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:11:03] Back once again talking with Jessica Rani as well as Ryan Rani,

[00:11:07] and we are talking about this new book, Caregiving with Grit and Grace, just coming out now,

[00:11:12] and it's certainly a resource that you would want to obtain or maybe pass on to some others.

[00:11:17] Before we get to the book, though, Ryan, let me come to you for just a minute

[00:11:19] because I introduced you as a special needs advocate,

[00:11:22] and I've said that parents of special needs fit into one of two categories,

[00:11:27] those who were surprised by the special needs challenge

[00:11:32] and those who knew what they were getting themselves into.

[00:11:35] And I think you fall pretty much in that second category.

[00:11:39] You could have said, I already have a few kids.

[00:11:42] I've already lost a wife.

[00:11:44] Do I want to take on a blended family challenge and a special needs challenge?

[00:11:50] But you stepped forward anyway.

[00:11:52] Can you share a little bit about that?

[00:11:55] Yeah, that's a deep one.

[00:11:58] I fell in love with Jess, and that's really all that mattered to me.

[00:12:03] Now, it was a difficult time, and, you know, honestly, my kids were young,

[00:12:09] and all the advice I got from people around me was try to get yourself happy

[00:12:14] and your kids will follow suit.

[00:12:16] And I just remember a conversation with my oldest son who just took me aside just months after his mom had died

[00:12:23] and said, Dad, when are we going to get a new mom?

[00:12:26] I mean, this was just weeks or just maybe even two months after she had passed away,

[00:12:32] and it just totally took me off guard.

[00:12:34] And so I started praying about it, and I just said, God, you know, when it's time, you know, just show me the way.

[00:12:41] And, you know, fortunately it was so fast, almost a whirlwind, that I actually met Jess just a month later or so.

[00:12:52] And, you know, the rest is history.

[00:12:55] But when I met her, I actually came out to visit her, and Lucas was downstairs, and, yeah, he's got severe special needs.

[00:13:04] But I just sat next to him and just recognized that he needed a dad.

[00:13:10] I mean, just as much as my kids needed a mom, and, you know, it didn't really change my perspective at all.

[00:13:17] He needed to be loved just like Jess did and just like I did.

[00:13:20] And so I just followed God's will, and it led me down a beautiful path.

[00:13:26] I mean, we talk about beauty from ashes all the time, and it's absolutely that way for us.

[00:13:31] It's a great story.

[00:13:32] Well, Jess, let me come to you because I've already introduced the fact that this is sort of like a series.

[00:13:37] You have Loving with Grit and Grace, Blended with Grit and Grace, but this new book, Caregiving with Grit and Grace.

[00:13:44] And I love the way you've put it together.

[00:13:46] It's kind of a devotional book.

[00:13:47] And so, again, if you've seen some of these other books that are kind of devotional format, a little shorter in some material.

[00:13:53] But you use the seasons.

[00:13:55] I've always believed that we should get back to the rhythms of nature.

[00:13:59] That's what the Bible certainly encourages us to do.

[00:14:03] So you, of course, have 100 days of hope and encouragement, 25 for winter, 25 for spring, 25 for summer, 25 for fall.

[00:14:12] But talk about this because this is an attempt to really share not only your own experiences, but to pass on spiritual lessons you've learned as you've worked your way through some of these seasons.

[00:14:25] Yeah, I've just always found that my life works in sort of a seasonal rhythm, as I think everybody's life really does.

[00:14:32] And in the book, they're just short, you know, five-minute reads that hopefully encourage and bring hope to caregivers.

[00:14:40] And the winter season represents the diagnosis or the news that sort of slaps you across the face with the cold, hard truth when you learn that your loved one will need care.

[00:14:53] And spring represents kind of getting into the groove of this caregiving journey and what that might look like.

[00:14:59] And summer is when the intensity rises and things become very challenging again.

[00:15:05] And for us, that season was with Lucas when he began to go through puberty.

[00:15:10] And we saw so many changes with him.

[00:15:13] And then fall is kind of this resignation of the surrender to God's will for your life and for your loved one's life and accepting, you know, what is and what is not.

[00:15:22] And just continuing to be obedient to whatever that journey is going to look like for you and your loved one.

[00:15:30] Again, I love how you tie it all together.

[00:15:33] Winter season, of course, represents the death of a dream or a hard truth of a diagnosis.

[00:15:38] Of course, we just mentioned spring.

[00:15:41] Sometimes some of those issues, summer, hot and heavy.

[00:15:44] And then finally to the fall, representing finality, maybe death, remission, resolution, whatever it might be.

[00:15:50] But in your introduction, you also quote from Oswald Chambers.

[00:15:54] I won't quote the entire piece, but he really asks a very important question.

[00:15:58] Why shouldn't we go through heartbreaks, through these doorways?

[00:16:02] God is opening up ways of fellowship with his son.

[00:16:05] Most of us fall and collapse at the first grip of pain.

[00:16:07] We sit down on the threshold of God's purpose and begin to address those issues.

[00:16:12] And in a sense, what you're trying to do is each day give a scripture verse, then give some perspective.

[00:16:18] And then at the end, maybe some kind of short prayer or short comment.

[00:16:24] And so how would you recommend that people might use this in a way that would be helpful to them

[00:16:30] as they're going through the very difficult time of caregiving, which seems to last for so long

[00:16:37] and sometimes never seems to have an end point to it?

[00:16:41] I think the book could be used in a number of ways, honestly.

[00:16:45] I mean, my husband's reading it straight through right now.

[00:16:48] So it reads kind of like a memoir as well.

[00:16:53] It could also be used where you find the season that you really feel like you are struggling through

[00:16:59] and begin at that season or as a daily meditation, a daily devotional that you do with the Lord,

[00:17:06] just starting right from the beginning and working your way through.

[00:17:10] I just, even as I reread through some of these devotionals, I find these truths that the Lord downloaded into my heart

[00:17:20] during a very difficult period of time coming alive again.

[00:17:23] And I'm being reminded of the lessons that I've learned through these challenging periods of life

[00:17:29] and then through the trials that caregiving often bring.

[00:17:33] And even as I wrote the book, we were creating a group home for our son, Lucas.

[00:17:39] And the book almost became God downloading his love letter to me

[00:17:45] as I was grieving and processing the fact that I wouldn't be Lucas's primary caregiver anymore.

[00:17:51] And in turn, it's become a downloaded love letter to caregivers in the world.

[00:17:58] As I faithfully wrote down what the Lord was putting in my heart.

[00:18:03] Well, again, I think it is oftentimes falling on the woman to deal with that.

[00:18:08] I remember about two decades ago, now it's almost been three decades to think about this.

[00:18:13] I pointed out the time when you were looking at baby boom women that said that they would probably spend more years

[00:18:20] taking care of elderly parents than they do of their children.

[00:18:26] When you add in that, for those of us that have children with disability,

[00:18:31] that may certainly be taking case in a very significant way.

[00:18:36] And so the burden that comes, especially oftentimes on the mother or the daughter, is, I think, very significant.

[00:18:43] But just before we take a break, I thought, Ryan, I wanted to get your thoughts.

[00:18:47] You're reading through the book.

[00:18:48] We're just now seeing it, just coming out in press.

[00:18:51] And I think it's – I've seen some of the interviews Jess has done on other talk shows.

[00:18:55] But it seems to me that you have had a chance to read through it even better than I have or anybody else.

[00:19:01] What's your reaction to some of the things happening there?

[00:19:06] Well, I've actually finished her book.

[00:19:09] It definitely didn't take me 100 days.

[00:19:11] It's hard to put it down, to be honest.

[00:19:13] And it was a reminder of often.

[00:19:17] I remember those devotions coming to her, and they just poured out of her.

[00:19:21] I mean, it was a God thing.

[00:19:22] I just watched her just put her head down, and it just poured out of her.

[00:19:28] And it was pretty remarkable to watch how fast it came to her.

[00:19:32] And they're beautifully written.

[00:19:33] But I think the main takeaway I got from it is it gives caregivers at any level permission to grieve.

[00:19:41] It gives you permission to get angry.

[00:19:43] It gives you permission to be sad and lonely and isolated.

[00:19:48] But as long as you keep in mind that there's light at the end of the tunnel.

[00:19:53] And I think if we keep our eyes on God, everything is manageable because we know we come out in the end.

[00:19:59] And maybe not on this earth.

[00:20:00] But we do get a beautiful answer in the end.

[00:20:04] And I think the book really promotes that.

[00:20:07] Let's take a break.

[00:20:08] And then we also open up the phones.

[00:20:10] Perhaps some of you have some comments or questions.

[00:20:12] 1-800-351-1212.

[00:20:15] But as we go to our break, let me suggest a couple of things.

[00:20:18] You might want to go to the link that we have there, justplusthemess.com.

[00:20:22] Or you can find some of the other links there as well because we do also want to talk after the break about the Lucas Project.

[00:20:30] As you go there, you'll realize that there are some things that you can purchase or donate that might help that Lucas Project.

[00:20:37] There's a way in which you can find out more about the podcast, find out more about the blog, maybe even schedule them to come and speak.

[00:20:45] For example, Jess, I know, is available for speaking.

[00:20:48] So all of that is available at the website.

[00:20:50] So I thought we'd come back and work through some of the material on the website.

[00:20:54] So during a break, be a good time for you to check on some of that as well.

[00:20:58] And as we open up the phones, 800-351-1212.

[00:21:03] Don't forget, you can find all of this at our website, pointofview.net, including some of these links and resources.

[00:21:09] And if you would certainly appreciate the kind of conversation we're having today,

[00:21:14] you might even click on that button that says Donate to support this ministry.

[00:21:18] Or even click on the button that allows you to send this podcast to someone else.

[00:21:23] We'll take a break, come back with more right after this.

[00:21:30] In 19th century London, two towering historical figures did battle.

[00:21:35] Not with guns and bombs, but words and ideas.

[00:21:39] London was home to Karl Marx, the father of communism.

[00:21:43] And legendary Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon.

[00:21:47] London was in many ways the center of the world, economically, militarily, and intellectually.

[00:21:54] Marx sought to destroy religion, the family, and everything the Bible supports.

[00:21:59] Spurgeon stood against him, warning of socialism's dangers.

[00:22:03] Spurgeon understood Christianity is not just religious truth.

[00:22:07] It is truth for all of life.

[00:22:10] Where do you find men with that kind of wisdom to stand against darkness today?

[00:22:15] Get the light you need on today's most pressing issues delivered to your inbox

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[00:22:47] Point of View will continue after this.

[00:22:51] You are listening to Point of View.

[00:23:02] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station.

[00:23:09] And now, here again, is Kirby Anderson.

[00:23:13] Back once again, talking with Jessica Rani and Ryan Rani.

[00:23:16] And again, we're talking about this new book, Caregiving with Grit and Grace, just coming out.

[00:23:21] Again, I'll hold up this book here, The Sunlight Burning at Midnight,

[00:23:25] which I believe you wrote back in 2016 when you were still in Tennessee.

[00:23:29] Although now you're back in Michigan.

[00:23:31] I remember you're a Calvin College graduate.

[00:23:33] And then, of course, you've got Blended with Grit and Grace 2021.

[00:23:38] Loving with Grit and Grace 2023.

[00:23:40] And, of course, this new one, Caregiving with Grit and Grace 2024.

[00:23:44] So lots of resources, lots of books.

[00:23:47] But, Jess, can you maybe take us through your website for a few minutes?

[00:23:51] Because once people see that, they can see how they could support what you're doing,

[00:23:56] certainly through the Lucas Project, even by buying some of the merchandise.

[00:24:01] But there are also ways in which they can contact you about speaking.

[00:24:04] They can also learn a little bit more about the podcast, Coffee with Caregivers, and all of the rest.

[00:24:10] So can you kind of take us through some of the resources that are available to our listeners?

[00:24:15] Yeah, sure.

[00:24:16] I'd love to.

[00:24:17] We have a bunch of resources for caregivers of children with special needs.

[00:24:21] We offer a free support group on Facebook.

[00:24:25] There are about 2,000 caregivers in there right now, a very active group.

[00:24:29] We also have a free database of resources right on our website that's completely free,

[00:24:35] over 300 national resources that special needs families can tap into.

[00:24:40] We created the documentary Unseen, which we already mentioned.

[00:24:46] We are starting to film our second documentary, Uncertain.

[00:24:50] We'll explore the housing crisis among disabled adults and their families.

[00:24:56] What else do we do?

[00:24:57] We're starting a respite chapter here in West Michigan for families in January,

[00:25:01] where we will offer respite to children ages 5 to 14.

[00:25:06] And if that's successful, we also want to expand that program in the future to also offer it for adults.

[00:25:13] We also want to create a model that other communities throughout the nation can then replicate

[00:25:19] if they want to offer respite to the families in their communities.

[00:25:24] Oh, and we offer care packages.

[00:25:26] So you can go on our website and ask a caregiver to receive a care package,

[00:25:29] and we will send that out to them.

[00:25:31] You even have a mentoring program, I understand.

[00:25:33] And so all of that is available.

[00:25:35] Let me also mention just the speaking opportunity.

[00:25:38] Of course, we have radio stations all over the country, including Michigan,

[00:25:41] and that would be certainly easy since you're in the Michigan area.

[00:25:44] But I'm sure people would be willing to have you come and speak to those issues as well.

[00:25:49] So there are just a lot of ways we can connect up with individuals.

[00:25:53] And, Ryan, can you maybe speak to this?

[00:25:55] Because oftentimes, as I point out, the mother or the daughter is usually the one upon which there is so much weight placed upon her.

[00:26:06] But it does seem to me that there are very significant ways in which fathers, husbands, brothers can be involved.

[00:26:15] Can you speak to that?

[00:26:18] That's a good question.

[00:26:20] I hadn't thought about that.

[00:26:22] Jeff does all the work.

[00:26:23] I mean, she's the backbone of all this advocacy.

[00:26:30] I think I'm more of a support role for her in her career and in raising our kids, at least with Lucas.

[00:26:40] I've had quite a learning curve with him.

[00:26:43] But I think just being supportive, understanding what she's going through,

[00:26:49] and the fact that she basically has like three full-time jobs with her writing career with the Lucas Project and with raising our kids and just being at home all the time.

[00:27:03] I commend her.

[00:27:04] She does so much for us.

[00:27:07] And I often feel pretty inadequate because I'm just kind of there going, you're doing such a great job, honey.

[00:27:15] But she definitely does the work for the Lucas Project especially.

[00:27:21] And I don't know if you have more of a specific question.

[00:27:24] No, I think you illustrated it because you're there to support.

[00:27:28] And I want to come back to Jess then because a lot of the caregivers I know, and you know them a lot more than I do,

[00:27:34] the biggest issue they seem to be dealing with, well, there's quite a few, there's fatigue and all the rest,

[00:27:40] but it's just isolation or loneliness.

[00:27:42] I'm the only person out here taking care of, you know, I had a father with Alzheimer's,

[00:27:47] only person taking care of my father, my father-in-law.

[00:27:50] I'm the only person taking care of my mother, only person taking care of our special needs child because my husband ran away.

[00:27:55] And so oftentimes one of those issues is you've been benefiting from having support from Ryan,

[00:28:02] but don't a lot of the caregivers tell you that one of their biggest issues is isolation and loneliness?

[00:28:09] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:28:10] And some of that, I'll just say from personal experience, is self-induced.

[00:28:15] As caregivers, we're really good at sort of assuming the smarter mentality where we feel like we have to be the ones to accomplish everything

[00:28:23] or nobody could possibly care for my loved one the way I do.

[00:28:27] And I would just encourage anybody in a caregiving capacity, you're probably correct.

[00:28:32] Nobody will probably do it exactly like you do it or as well as you do it.

[00:28:36] But that's okay because you need a break.

[00:28:39] You need to incorporate some self-care into your life.

[00:28:43] And you need to also let people know when you're struggling.

[00:28:46] You need to ask for help.

[00:28:47] That's one thing Ryan is really good at.

[00:28:50] He's not a mind reader at all, but he is really good at saying to me, I can feel that you're stressed.

[00:28:56] What can I do to help you out?

[00:28:59] And I'll give him a couple of things.

[00:29:00] Hey, if you could put the dishes away or whatever.

[00:29:03] And then he'll accomplish that.

[00:29:05] So I've learned not to hold that in and just be like, I'm fine.

[00:29:08] It's all fine.

[00:29:09] And then get angry and resentful because nobody's helping me.

[00:29:13] So I think as caregivers, we just need to be better at voicing what our needs actually are.

[00:29:18] And I do believe there are wonderful people in the world who do want to help us if we can get honest about our needs.

[00:29:25] Let's talk about that idea of a break.

[00:29:27] It does seem to me that sometimes that can be provided by the family.

[00:29:30] But last time we had Pastor Connor Bales on.

[00:29:34] He's a pastor and has addressed those issues.

[00:29:37] And it does seem to me that there is a place for the church to reach out.

[00:29:42] And some churches have understood this and have a special needs ministry.

[00:29:47] And sometimes that is helpful.

[00:29:49] But it does seem to me that, again, in addition to loneliness and isolation, just sheer fatigue, just the 24-7 demand is so unrelenting.

[00:30:02] It seems to me that giving a break is a very key issue.

[00:30:05] So what are your thoughts about that?

[00:30:08] Is this for me or for Ryan?

[00:30:10] Either one of you.

[00:30:12] Okay.

[00:30:14] Ryan has a fantastic idea that he's actually written about.

[00:30:18] Go for it.

[00:30:19] Great.

[00:30:19] I'll let you take this one.

[00:30:21] Yeah.

[00:30:22] Okay.

[00:30:23] Yeah.

[00:30:23] I felt like we've had this change in our churches where we are understanding to create smaller communities within our churches.

[00:30:34] So when the small group thing started, we're meeting and starting to connect individually.

[00:30:40] I think that's a great move for the church to start drawing in to the community aspect of life, a tribal kind of thing.

[00:30:48] And I think if we were to utilize that to kind of adopt these families that are in crisis, especially those families that are in desperate need of help,

[00:30:59] if these small groups could get together and say, you know, we'll sit with your child for a few hours.

[00:31:08] Or even if they were just to go over and interact with the child while the family's there, just to kind of take that edge off.

[00:31:15] Because I think most families are just afraid.

[00:31:18] They're not going to know how to handle the situation.

[00:31:21] They don't know what to expect.

[00:31:24] And sometimes the best way to overcome fear is just to face it head on.

[00:31:27] And I think that's a great first step within our churches is if people just start to see what we're dealing with behind the scenes.

[00:31:38] Watching that documentary, Unseen, I think it's still available on the weekends, honey.

[00:31:43] I'm not sure for free right now.

[00:31:46] But it's something that you should watch.

[00:31:48] It kind of takes you behind the curtain of what we deal with on a regular basis.

[00:31:54] And I think it would enlighten a lot of people, especially within the church.

[00:31:57] Yeah, I might just mention again, it's called Unseen.

[00:32:00] And, of course, not only does it feature Jess, but she's the associate producer.

[00:32:04] It came out in 2022.

[00:32:05] I'm also looking forward to the other one, Jess, that talks about the issue of housing.

[00:32:10] First of all, we oftentimes on this program talk about the housing issue just generally.

[00:32:14] But then when you get down to special needs, of course, there are some very unique and special needs.

[00:32:20] And that is, I think, so important.

[00:32:22] And that's one of the reasons why you have this new documentary coming out, I guess, next year.

[00:32:28] Yeah, the housing issue is the one that keeps parents like me awake at night.

[00:32:33] Like what happens to my loved one when I die or I'm no longer able to care for him or her.

[00:32:40] And that was the reason we actually moved back to Michigan, my home state,

[00:32:44] is because it was our understanding that there were more housing options here.

[00:32:48] Yes.

[00:32:48] Although we got here, we found out that that was not true.

[00:32:52] And the only way you're bumped to the top of the wait list is if you die or something horrible

[00:32:59] happens to either you or your spouse.

[00:33:01] As long as you are capable of caring for your disabled loved one,

[00:33:05] the expectation is that you will continue to care for your loved one.

[00:33:10] And that led us down the road of creating a group home for Lucas,

[00:33:14] which led to exploring this topic through another film.

[00:33:19] Because don't quote me on this, but I believe there are over 700,000 families in the United States

[00:33:24] waiting for housing for their adult disabled child.

[00:33:31] And that is going to go away anytime soon.

[00:33:36] Let's take a break.

[00:33:37] We'll come back and talk a little bit more about that, just the sheer numbers and some of the issues.

[00:33:42] We'll talk about that right after these messages.

[00:33:55] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:34:01] Back for a few more minutes.

[00:34:02] Let me just mention again, one of the reasons we're doing this is that if you go to the LucasProject.org,

[00:34:07] it reminds us that we have about 16 million or more people in the United States

[00:34:12] who are caregivers to a child with special needs.

[00:34:15] You just, of course, heard just talk about hundreds of thousands.

[00:34:19] I won't say the 700,000, but hundreds of thousands of families looking for housing.

[00:34:24] And that is a very insignificant need.

[00:34:27] But just for the few minutes we have remaining, let's talk about this other link that we have there,

[00:34:33] the LucasProject.org.

[00:34:35] Because what this is is an opportunity for you to really care for the caregivers.

[00:34:42] So what kind of resources are available?

[00:34:45] You've mentioned a little bit of that and certainly talked about the resources that are printed.

[00:34:51] But I know that you have things like a retreat and you have various kinds of mentoring programs

[00:34:56] and all sorts of other resources.

[00:34:59] So, Jess, can you talk a little bit about that?

[00:35:01] Because we've got respite days and care packages and so much more.

[00:35:06] So talk about what is available to some of our listeners.

[00:35:10] Yeah, we also have a caregiver retreat coming up next April, April 26, 2025 here in West Michigan.

[00:35:18] That will be a day of rest, rejuvenation, and renewal.

[00:35:23] We have amazing speakers coming in for that, a comedian.

[00:35:25] There will be a catered lunch, a swag bag worth over $50.

[00:35:29] It will be an incredible event where we just really want caregivers to feel seen and provide just a day of hope

[00:35:37] and encouragement for them.

[00:35:39] And as you mentioned, we have respite days coming up in January.

[00:35:42] Those will be monthly days offered, again, a five-hour chunk of time for families with special needs children.

[00:35:48] And I personally offer mentoring sessions for anybody who is interested in learning more about how to create housing for their loved one.

[00:35:57] I could maybe for just a minute, Ryan, get your thoughts or Jess, either one, on what pastors and churches can do.

[00:36:04] Because we have talked about that before with one of our other guests.

[00:36:07] But it does seem to me that the first step, and Ryan, you were talking about trying to provide a break,

[00:36:13] the churches can provide that because some of the same individuals that may watch your children on Sunday morning when you're in worship,

[00:36:22] some of those same people could be available sometime during the week to provide a break.

[00:36:28] But that requires at least some kind of leadership in the church, don't you think?

[00:36:37] Yeah, I would say the first step is for churches to recognize that these families do exist in their communities.

[00:36:42] I often hear from pastors, well, I don't know of any special needs families.

[00:36:46] And I'll say, well, yeah, it's because your church isn't accessible or the world just isn't made for families like ours.

[00:36:53] So just because you don't see them doesn't mean that they don't exist.

[00:36:56] They are in their homes.

[00:36:57] They're isolated.

[00:36:58] And they're just not getting out into the world because the world isn't created for families like mine.

[00:37:04] So recognizing that these families do exist.

[00:37:07] And then I'll often say, too, you know, you don't necessarily have to begin with offering respite.

[00:37:14] Just step into this family's life in some way, shape, or form.

[00:37:18] Our to-do lists are so long.

[00:37:20] It can be as simple as dropping off a meal or offering to pick up meds or groceries or sending a crew over on a Saturday for, like, a yard cleanup day or house cleaning or laundry or whatever that looks like.

[00:37:34] And a caregiver's life is so greatly appreciated just because time is so valuable to us.

[00:37:40] And we don't have that much time.

[00:37:42] So we're grateful for any help that we can get.

[00:37:44] Well, and your point about the fact, well, I don't know anybody with special needs.

[00:37:48] First of all, it's hard for me to imagine anybody listening to this broadcast right now doesn't know somebody who has special needs.

[00:37:54] My wife and I walk every day.

[00:37:55] We go past various houses where kids are somewhere on the autism spectrum or some of them have special needs because of cerebral palsy or a variety of others.

[00:38:06] I mean, I can't walk down one street without running into some family that I know has a special need.

[00:38:11] I can't think of a church I've ever been in that does not have children with special needs.

[00:38:15] But some people say, I really don't know anybody, but I'd like to help.

[00:38:19] One of the things you do make available at the lucasproject.org is where you can sponsor a package, a care package.

[00:38:27] And so that's a way where you may know somebody that would have a need.

[00:38:31] And by sponsoring that, they can have an impact, at least vicariously, through the ministry that you've already developed.

[00:38:39] True?

[00:38:40] Yeah, it's that simple.

[00:38:41] For a very low fee, you can go on our website, nominate somebody who is a caregiver,

[00:38:47] and we will send them a package worth over $50 full of respite type of items that just say, we see you, we acknowledge the work you're doing,

[00:38:57] and we just encourage you to keep going.

[00:39:00] And we get such great feedback from caregivers who receive these packages.

[00:39:04] It just brightens their day to know that somebody is seeing them.

[00:39:08] I mean, that's the, you know, human beings we just want to be seen.

[00:39:12] And so I just encourage anybody who knows a family to head to our website and nominate them, and we will get that care package out.

[00:39:19] One other resource I thought I might just mention is the fact that you are a speaker.

[00:39:23] And I was looking through, of course, you can address special needs parenting, of course, the housing initiatives that you're working on right now,

[00:39:31] but also dealing with anxiety and stress, some whole need for caregiving awareness, grief and addiction and some of those things.

[00:39:41] There may be a pastor or a Sunday school teacher right now saying, you know, we really need to develop this ministry in our church.

[00:39:48] I don't even know what the first step is, but I got a feeling that Jess might be able to come as a speaker and maybe raise awareness,

[00:39:58] and out of that maybe raise up some volunteers or a staff person to take that on.

[00:40:05] So what does that entail to invite you in to come and speak on some of these issues?

[00:40:11] That entails sending me an email, and we will get the ball rolling.

[00:40:16] The email is info at thelucasproject.org.

[00:40:19] That is my favorite topic to speak on, how the church can better serve these families.

[00:40:25] And I would love to partner with churches to help them in figuring out what the next steps are in order to move these ministries forward.

[00:40:34] And I just let it one more time, maybe, Ryan, get your thoughts as well,

[00:40:38] because in some respects you've been able to see this whole ministry unfold.

[00:40:42] You've read the book now cover to cover, which is pretty impressive.

[00:40:46] And as a result, I thought maybe I'd just get your last comments about how ministries or individuals

[00:40:52] could use some of the resources that you have available there on the website.

[00:40:56] Yeah, I think part of what, you know, I mean, Jess does all that stuff behind the scenes.

[00:41:01] But I think even as church members, often we all have very, we're very comfortable inviting people to church.

[00:41:09] I think with special needs families, I think you've got to focus on bringing church to them.

[00:41:14] So I think as long as you're, you can take advantage of our resources and you can go on there and donate to the Lucas Project.

[00:41:24] But it's time that these people need.

[00:41:27] And like Jess said, they just want to be seen.

[00:41:29] You don't have to spend a ton of time with them.

[00:41:32] But if you don't even, even if there are somebody out there that doesn't have,

[00:41:35] that doesn't know of a special needs family, donate to the care packages and we'll find those families for you.

[00:41:41] Very good.

[00:41:42] Well, Ryan and Jessica, I've really appreciated some of the work that you have done.

[00:41:47] Jessica, of course, seeing you on other broadcasts.

[00:41:49] And I appreciate you giving us an hour today here on Point of View.

[00:41:53] And one last time, just before we say goodbye, we first of all have a link to thelucasproject.org.

[00:41:59] That's on the website.

[00:42:00] We also have a link to justplusthemess.com.

[00:42:03] So you can follow those.

[00:42:04] We, of course, also have links to other social media.

[00:42:07] And all the material that you need to know about is on the website pointofview.net.

[00:42:13] And then, of course, there's a red button there in which you can watch or listen.

[00:42:16] You might want to download that podcast and send it to someone of them as they've had a chance to hear this today on the radio program and on the network.

[00:42:26] And so, as a result, there's a way that you can pass that on to them as well.

[00:42:30] So, Ryan and Jessica, thank you for joining us today here on Point of View.

[00:42:34] Yeah, thank you.

[00:42:36] Well, we're going to take a break.

[00:42:37] And when we come back, we'll get into some other issues.

[00:42:39] But let me just mention that this is a resource that I wanted to give to you.

[00:42:44] And this is an opportunity for you to then take this material and either apply it to your own life or pass it on to someone you know that would certainly benefit from this.

[00:42:53] We've talked about this issue of caregiving.

[00:42:55] We've talked about this issue of special needs.

[00:42:58] And once again, we thought it would be appropriate to cover it today here on Point of View.

[00:43:03] We'll be back right after this.

[00:43:10] It almost seems like we live in a different world from many people in positions of authority.

[00:43:16] They say men can be women and women men.

[00:43:20] People are prosecuted differently or not at all depending on their politics.

[00:43:25] Criminals are more valued and rewarded than law-abiding citizens.

[00:43:29] It's so overwhelming, so demoralizing.

[00:43:33] You feel like giving up.

[00:43:34] But we can't.

[00:43:36] We shouldn't.

[00:43:36] We must not.

[00:43:38] As Winston Churchill said to Britain,

[00:43:40] In the darkest days of World War II,

[00:43:42] Never give in.

[00:43:44] Never give in.

[00:43:45] Never, never, never.

[00:43:47] Never yield to force.

[00:43:48] Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.

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[00:43:55] This is not a time to give in,

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[00:44:18] Point of View will continue after this.