Point of View November 15, 2024 – Hour 2 : Weekend Edition

[00:00:04] Across America, live, this is Point of View, your guest host for Point of View.

[00:00:21] Welcome back to Point of View's Weekend Edition. I'm Liberty McCarter, sitting in for Kirby Anderson today.

[00:00:27] And I have with me around the round table Peyton Luke, media specialist with First Liberty Institute and the producer of First Liberty Live,

[00:00:35] and Nathan Shackelford, who is Associate General Counsel with First Liberty and leader of the F3 Initiative.

[00:00:41] We have been covering a lot of topics so far, a lot of them related to education, some cases that you guys are fighting for religious freedom and education,

[00:00:51] and what we might look at in the future in that regard with the Trump administration.

[00:00:56] But let's talk about the media a little bit. Some of you may have heard, especially if you're listening online,

[00:01:02] Penna Dexter's commentary, but you can also find out this weekend at PointofView.net.

[00:01:06] And she talks about how the media has been rebuked.

[00:01:12] So if you're listening to Point of View, then you've known for a long time that there is bias in the mainstream media.

[00:01:18] This is not a secret. But I think that the mainstream media, the legacy media outlets like the New York Times,

[00:01:27] the Washington Post, CNN, ABC, etc., I think they're getting a little bit of self-awareness because the numbers, the numbers aren't lying.

[00:01:37] For instance, cable news coverage used to hold a lot of sway with voters in just, you know, the manner of their coverage and who they covered,

[00:01:46] covered leading up to a presidential election really impacting the outcome, but not as much influence anymore.

[00:01:53] And we'll talk a little bit more about how different media outlets impacted the election here in a few minutes.

[00:01:58] But Peyton, as someone like me with a background educationally in journalism and media,

[00:02:04] and of course you work as the media specialist for First Liberty now,

[00:02:07] are you surprised that the legacy media, the mainstream media is losing trust with Americans?

[00:02:14] No, because it's not starting now.

[00:02:17] It's been going on for the last several years and the American people are over it.

[00:02:21] So, yeah, my background was convergence journalism.

[00:02:25] That was my undergraduate degree.

[00:02:27] Most people would ask, like, what is that?

[00:02:28] And so it's the combination of all the different mediums and forms of media,

[00:02:34] whether that's print, radio, TV, now social media, web, all of the above.

[00:02:40] And we used to talk about this as students and even with our professors because the atmosphere was just changing so rapidly for our generation

[00:02:49] and how people got the news and how people shared the news, as well as just conversations in general.

[00:02:55] So I think part of the issue is that a lot of the media wants clicks.

[00:02:59] And so they do these stories, they get attention.

[00:03:03] They're going to do stuff that's based on crime and based taps into people's fear.

[00:03:08] They're going to if it bleeds, it leads.

[00:03:10] That's exactly I literally have that written in my notes.

[00:03:13] We both learned that.

[00:03:13] Oh, absolutely. If it bleeds, it leads.

[00:03:16] That is a quote that literally journalist students are taught because it gets people fired up and they're going to read it.

[00:03:23] It gets views. It gets clicks.

[00:03:25] But the American people want substance and they want trusted sources.

[00:03:30] We're tired of lies and we're just tired of not having that certain substance.

[00:03:37] Also, the difference in how our generation has worked is it's all of these.

[00:03:42] It's everyone has a phone. Everyone is a journalist.

[00:03:45] We talked about this all the time because of prolific social media.

[00:03:50] So anyone on the street with a phone with a camera is now suddenly a journalist.

[00:03:54] And some of those social media influencers have a bigger following than even some of the news sites and see even some of the news outlets.

[00:04:02] So but at the end of the day, they might not be trained journalists.

[00:04:06] They might not be checking their sources.

[00:04:09] They might not be doing credible sources or interviewing people that really have the background.

[00:04:14] And people nowadays don't double check those as journalists.

[00:04:17] You're taught to do that.

[00:04:18] However, I'm not saying that everyone in media nowadays does that.

[00:04:23] It feels like even a lot of the big outlets aren't checking their sources or they're just doing stuff that they know will be clickbait and jumping on the air, going live and saying stuff before they've had time to double check.

[00:04:36] So I think that's why people are now tired of it or that they transition to someone that they know that they can trust.

[00:04:44] Even if it's not a journalist, it's not a news outlet.

[00:04:47] Say it's someone who has their doctorate degree in something or someone who just feels relatable and has a good heart that seems so transparent.

[00:04:56] And then they present the articles or don't it kind of like Nathan said earlier, they don't tell you what to think.

[00:05:02] They teach you how to think and they give you the proper sources.

[00:05:06] So there's a lot here and I'm excited to continue to unpack this in this hour.

[00:05:11] Yeah.

[00:05:11] Well, it is such an important topic.

[00:05:13] And might I just say thank you for listening to point of view for those of you listening, because our goal is to be a place where you can receive trustworthy, thoughtful news.

[00:05:23] And I mean, point of view, I grew up listening to point of view and it's been on for over 50 years.

[00:05:29] So if you're a new listener, this is, you know, a longtime program.

[00:05:32] So this is a good source.

[00:05:34] This is a good source.

[00:05:34] Well, it is needed in our culture.

[00:05:37] And I will say that Kirby has actually written a booklet on media bias that really demonstrates.

[00:05:45] I mean, this is something we've covered multiple times in Outlook magazine and on the air.

[00:05:49] But, you know, there are reasons for media bias.

[00:05:53] And I think what you were saying, Peyton, is like initially, especially those of us who have studied journalism, we're kind of reacting like, oh, my goodness, if everybody is a journalist and, you know, it's not as trustworthy.

[00:06:02] They're not checking their facts.

[00:06:03] And a lot of times that is true and you have to be careful with what you see online.

[00:06:07] But we're also seeing a lack of fact checking sometimes, even in the mainstream, where people are supposed to be able to trust what they're reading or what they're seeing.

[00:06:17] And so some of the reason for that is just because of bias among journalists.

[00:06:23] I don't have all of the exact numbers in front of me, but a lot of it's not malicious.

[00:06:28] It is, you know, people are blind in certain areas.

[00:06:32] And so if you look at who is a journalist working at a lot of these mainstream or traditional outlets, they are usually these offices and outlets are located on the coast.

[00:06:43] They the journalists that work for them are usually from the same area around there.

[00:06:49] And the majority it's like the vast majority.

[00:06:53] If you poll reporters are voting Democrat.

[00:06:56] Very few vote Republican.

[00:06:58] And so a lot of times it's not even a malicious intent to misrepresent the news or to be biased in reporting.

[00:07:06] It's simply that it's an echo chamber.

[00:07:08] And I think people are reacting to that.

[00:07:11] And Nathan, as somebody who works with a lot of clients at First Liberty, I assume that you deal with real average Americans who probably don't feel like they are being represented in the mainstream media very well.

[00:07:21] Yeah, I think a big shift that's happened, too, is with kind of like we've been talking about is the rise of technology and what that's mean of how people receive news and where they get that.

[00:07:33] You know, just I've seen all kinds of studies that people trust more about what they see on online, even then on TV or radio or print.

[00:07:43] And they're going to trust kind of that more online medium more.

[00:07:47] And that's a lot of it's because of accessibility to our phones.

[00:07:50] A lot of people in their workday don't have a TV in their office and are want to have the news pulled up.

[00:07:56] And when they're going home, if they're turning on TV, they're not turning on news.

[00:07:59] They're turning on Netflix or whatever.

[00:08:01] They're not coming home to get the news.

[00:08:03] That's true.

[00:08:04] A lot of my friends, at least that are in my demographic, use when they're on their commute to work, they're listening to podcasts and they're listening to or they're turning on radio, do something like that.

[00:08:16] But they're they're using that as kind of their hey, I'm going to get my educational time on my way to work.

[00:08:21] And then I'm going to be working.

[00:08:22] I'm going to go home and unwind.

[00:08:23] And so I think that that different medium has led to a shift in that.

[00:08:28] Plus, a lot of the a lot of these if we're talking TV, especially a lot of the main media sources there, they're all older.

[00:08:36] They're not younger.

[00:08:37] So very true.

[00:08:38] Yes.

[00:08:38] So we will continue discussing the backlash to media bias when we come back after these short messages.

[00:08:58] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:02] Ned Ryan begins his article with these questions.

[00:09:04] What if I told you that the president of the United States doesn't really run our government or that people in Washington, D.C.

[00:09:11] don't really believe in representative democracy or that a government of by and for the people is just an illusion.

[00:09:17] His article and his book, American Leviathan, the birth of an administrative state and progressive authoritarianism, explains that we have moved from a republic to an un-American administrative state.

[00:09:27] He calls it a slow regime change or a gradual coup that is undermining our constitution in our constitutional republic.

[00:09:35] It has undercut the original intent of the constitution.

[00:09:39] It has eroded our freedoms.

[00:09:40] It has undermined our civil liberties.

[00:09:42] Back to his original questions.

[00:09:44] The administrative state calls into question who is governing our country.

[00:09:48] We have seen this in the last few years of the Biden administration.

[00:09:51] So many of us wondered who was making the important decisions since it seemed obvious to most of us that the president wasn't up to the task mentally.

[00:10:00] Ned Ryan provides the history that goes back to the progressive movement led by Woodrow Wilson.

[00:10:05] The goal was to build a massive bureaucracy filled with unelected bureaucrats who were separated from political accountability.

[00:10:11] These elites would govern our country.

[00:10:14] They rejected the idea of a rights-based government because it was too limited in size and scope.

[00:10:19] That is why we have a sprawling federal bureaucracy.

[00:10:22] He argues that the president and Congress needs to break apart the administrative state and return legislative powers back to the Article I branch of government.

[00:10:30] To put it simply, it is time to drain the swamp.

[00:10:34] If this happens, we need more than slogans.

[00:10:36] We need action.

[00:10:37] I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:46] For a free booklet on biblical reliability, go to viewpoints.info slash biblical reliability.

[00:10:53] Viewpoints.info slash biblical reliability.

[00:10:58] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:11:04] Welcome back to Point of View.

[00:11:05] I'm Liberty McCarter sitting in for Kirby Anderson today.

[00:11:07] We're talking about the backlash of the mainstream media.

[00:11:10] Nina Pennexter covered this in her weekend commentary.

[00:11:13] And we also have an article that you'll want to read posted at pointofview.net.

[00:11:17] It's from the Wall Street Journal.

[00:11:19] Trump's win cemented it.

[00:11:21] New media is leaving the old guard behind.

[00:11:24] So we've been talking about how this really long-term problem of bias in the media is getting, I don't know, maybe the attention that it deserves among some of the media.

[00:11:36] For instance, I'll mention that the Washington Post decided not to endorse a political candidate before the presidential election.

[00:11:42] A presidential candidate, I'm sorry.

[00:11:44] And this was actually a very controversial decision for them.

[00:11:48] Multiple journalists at work for them resigned in protest, which just goes to show you how biased many of these traditional outlets have become,

[00:11:58] that the fact that they would endorse a presidential candidate was taken for granted that they would.

[00:12:06] I personally don't think newspapers should endorse a presidential candidate.

[00:12:11] Ideally, I would like for them to report fairly and then people can make their own decision.

[00:12:15] But the landscape is definitely changing.

[00:12:18] A lot of people aren't getting their news from the traditional sources anymore.

[00:12:23] So, Peyton, I know you have some research that you've looked up from the Pew Research Center on who is getting their news where.

[00:12:29] Sure. So, yes, according to the Pew Research Center, a large majority of U.S. adults, 86%, say that they at least sometimes get news from a smartphone, computer, tablet.

[00:12:42] This is what Nathan was saying earlier, including 57% who say they do so often.

[00:12:48] And this is also interesting because if you go to the next quote that I had underlined somewhere.

[00:12:56] Sorry, I'm looking for it right here.

[00:12:59] Here it is.

[00:13:00] When asked which of these platforms they prefer to get news on, 58% Americans say they prefer a digital device far higher than the share who prefer TV, which is 32%.

[00:13:12] Relatively few Americans have print at 4%.

[00:13:16] So, and yes, another thing that Pew reported is that over half, 54%, of Americans get their news on social media.

[00:13:25] So, this does concern me because we also know that there are algorithms at play on different social media platforms.

[00:13:34] I was reading in this article that we have posted from the Wall Street Journal that Facebook and Google have backed off of that some.

[00:13:41] But I do think that it's still a problem, especially on things like TikTok and Instagram.

[00:13:46] They're going to show you more of what you already watch.

[00:13:48] So, if you are in a particular echo chamber, whether it's a very, you know, left-leaning echo chamber, a very right-leaning echo chamber, due to the algorithms on social media where you're getting your news, you're going to get further and further and further into those.

[00:14:02] But that's where people are getting their news.

[00:14:04] And Trump really tapped into that, didn't he, Nathan?

[00:14:07] And I think that's part of why we saw him win so decisively because he took advantage of this new media in a way that I don't think any other presidential candidate ever has before.

[00:14:16] Yeah, if you listen to some of the post-election media coverage, I heard a segment by MSNBC where they said that Kamala ran a perfect race, essentially, from a strategy standpoint.

[00:14:33] Because she had all of the biggest celebrities coming out for her.

[00:14:38] And, like, they were naming all these people.

[00:14:40] Those people never come out and endorse anyone.

[00:14:42] But naming all these celebrities.

[00:14:44] And then you look at – you contrast that with Trump and what he was doing by going on Joe Rogan and being on these different podcasts.

[00:14:52] And I think it was a very different strategy of relatability, really, of how do we find people where they already are right now?

[00:15:03] You know, people might like Taylor Swift and watch her, but are they really seeing her as someone that's relatable to them?

[00:15:09] Probably not.

[00:15:10] Whereas a lot of men listen to the Joe Rogan podcast, and it's the top in the world for a reason.

[00:15:17] And people see him as relatable.

[00:15:18] So if you're getting to those places where you know people are watching, where they can relate to the person, I think that's the new way that things are shifting is that relatability.

[00:15:27] Yeah, I think you're right.

[00:15:29] And, again, I mean, Harris did go on a couple of podcasts, I believe.

[00:15:33] But Trump went on about 20 podcasts.

[00:15:38] So – and that's, you know, that's a lot.

[00:15:41] That's tens of millions of listeners right there.

[00:15:43] Where – with, like, just for instance, where it was in this article on – that we posted on pointofview.net from the Wall Street Journal that Trump sat down with Joe Rogan for three hours.

[00:15:56] And that interview had 45 million views on YouTube and over 25 million listens across Spotify.

[00:16:02] And then he was on, like you said, several other high-profile podcasts as well, which is where a lot of the young men are getting their news and information now.

[00:16:10] And so while he may not have changed many minds, though I think he did change some minds probably by coming on those podcasts,

[00:16:19] what I think he likely did and how this impacted the turnout is that he motivated a block that wasn't as likely to go to the polls, which is young men.

[00:16:28] They weren't traditionally as likely to vote.

[00:16:32] But he motivated them by going on those podcasts.

[00:16:34] He reached out, and I will say I read from a different report that it was actually his son, Barron Trump, who said,

[00:16:39] hey, Dad, you've got to get on these podcasts, which, again, that he had his finger on the pulse of where young people are getting their news today.

[00:16:47] But it certainly is changing, and there are multiple ramifications of the changing media landscape, aren't there, Peyton,

[00:16:52] in terms of the echo chambers, the divides, and the reliability of the news that we get?

[00:16:56] There really are.

[00:16:57] In fact, I was talking to two friends just this week that are on very different sides of the aisle,

[00:17:04] and they were having discussions on some of the viewpoints.

[00:17:09] And one side was saying, I haven't heard anything from Christians based on the election or actually being kind to our side

[00:17:19] or explaining how they're going to work with us and making those kinds of comments.

[00:17:23] She's like, I have not seen anything.

[00:17:25] And then I have another friend that's like, that's on the contrary for me.

[00:17:28] Like, that's mainly what I've been seeing.

[00:17:30] I've been seeing people reaching out.

[00:17:32] I've been seeing the conservative Christians speak up and have conversations and how we need to love our neighbor and work together.

[00:17:39] And so the discussion actually came up of algorithms because at the end of the day, if we're only on social media,

[00:17:45] if we're only on Instagram, if we're only on Facebook, if we're only on TikTok, you're not going to see that.

[00:17:50] You're not going out and looking for it.

[00:17:52] And so I think of especially a lot of young Americans are not doing their research on particular topics and going between the different outlets.

[00:18:00] I know my boss at First Liberty, he's the director of media relations, and he has the tabs open of all the different media outlets,

[00:18:09] anywhere from MSNBC to Fox to The Hill to all the different ranges, because you want to see what other groups are reporting.

[00:18:18] So you don't get within those echo chambers.

[00:18:21] And I do want to say a quick thing on Trump going to on Joe Rogan and all, too.

[00:18:25] I think it made Kamala look less qualified as well to a degree because she was asked to go on Joe Rogan, too, so they could have equality there.

[00:18:38] And her team told them we can only do 45 minutes.

[00:18:42] Then it was lifted up to an hour.

[00:18:44] But then Joe Rogan was told he would have to go to Kamala and then her team shut it down and said no.

[00:18:50] So she wouldn't do the length and she wouldn't do the format, which is how everyone else does that particular show.

[00:18:57] So it was very interesting to see how she approached the situation in comparison to Trump,

[00:19:03] who was able to just roll with it and really talk to the everyday American people.

[00:19:08] And like you said, Liberty, get people to the polls.

[00:19:10] Yeah, I think it does.

[00:19:12] Again, that's an example of an echo chamber within kind of the liberal media is thinking that, you know,

[00:19:20] reaching out to some of those unconventional or newer kind of outlets wouldn't matter as much.

[00:19:28] But I did want to highlight this quote from the end of the article that we have posted from the Wall Street Journal.

[00:19:34] The fragmenting of the media world means that people are processing the same news, a presidential debate,

[00:19:40] a supposed gaffe on the campaign trail very differently depending on where they are getting the information.

[00:19:46] People tend to live in their own media echo chambers now more than ever, which we've talked about.

[00:19:51] So, again, it's something to be aware of to understand how the people around us are getting their news and also to extend grace

[00:19:58] because something that may seem so obvious to us based on the news that we've seen or what our For You page on Instagram is showing us

[00:20:08] is going to be completely different for somebody else.

[00:20:10] And it does seem like sometimes we're living in two different realities.

[00:20:15] So, Peyton, I loved what you said about just making sure.

[00:20:20] Kirby often says, you know, I read CNN and MSNBC, so you don't have to.

[00:20:24] But the principle there is, yes, read the news widely, listen to sources that you agree with for sure,

[00:20:30] but also listen to sources that you disagree with because there's going to be some bias there, which you have to listen.

[00:20:36] But they may be reporting on a fact that your own side was blind to.

[00:20:39] And so, again, you have to weigh it, weigh everything against the word of God, but look at the whole picture.

[00:20:44] Try to find those trustworthy sources of news who are doing their research and checking their facts

[00:20:50] and make sure that you are getting a full picture with the media.

[00:20:52] But we're going to be talking about some of the ramifications of those echo chambers, especially after the election.

[00:20:59] We are seeing a lot of division right now.

[00:21:01] And coming up on the holidays, we did want to address this topic because a lot of you may be having difficult conversations with friends.

[00:21:08] Peyton mentioned she has friends with very different beliefs, with family members even,

[00:21:12] in a couple of weeks when you gather for Thanksgiving.

[00:21:15] So we're going to be talking about what that landscape looks like right now in America and how we can respond as Christians.

[00:21:21] So this is the weekend edition of Point of View.

[00:21:23] Don't go anywhere.

[00:21:24] We'll be back after this short break.

[00:21:31] Many years ago, they began saying that we live in the information age.

[00:21:36] Well, today there is so much information coming at us from every direction.

[00:21:41] The hardest thing is to discern which issues are really important

[00:21:45] and how can I make a positive impact without wasting my time trying to figure out accurate information.

[00:21:52] Let me give you a suggestion to help with that.

[00:21:55] Visit pointofview.net.

[00:21:58] Look at the tabs across the top.

[00:22:00] Find the one named Viewpoints.

[00:22:02] Kirby Anderson and others on our team are constantly watching for news to identify those issues that you really need to know about.

[00:22:10] They boil things down in a brief summary and then you can decide if it's something on which you want to learn more and get involved.

[00:22:17] Again, when you go to pointofview.net, click on Viewpoints, you'll see exactly what I mean.

[00:22:24] You'll see the issues that we are covering right now.

[00:22:27] And when you like what you see, I honestly think you will,

[00:22:31] you can slide on over, enter your email, and get them automatically sent to your inbox each day.

[00:22:37] That's it.

[00:22:38] Take a minute now.

[00:22:40] Be informed.

[00:22:41] Pointofview.net.

[00:22:43] Click on Viewpoints.

[00:22:48] Point of View will continue after this.

[00:22:58] You are listening to Point of View.

[00:23:02] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station.

[00:23:10] And now, here again, your guest host for Point of View.

[00:23:15] Welcome back to Point of View.

[00:23:17] I'm Liberty McCarter in studio today with Peyton Luke and Nathan Shackelford, both from First Liberty around the roundtable.

[00:23:23] We've been having a great discussion and we were just talking about the echo chambers that are created, especially now with the current media landscape.

[00:23:32] And what we're really seeing is a lack of people able to engage in critical thinking.

[00:23:39] Right, Nathan?

[00:23:40] Yeah, I think it goes back to what we talked about in the first segment with education of people know what to think.

[00:23:46] They're not taught how to think but kind of what to think.

[00:23:49] And you see that play into how people view things politically and how they are in conversations of people that have disagreeing views is people don't know how to think for things themselves.

[00:24:03] So even if people are getting all their news from one source, you should still be able to look at that and say, okay, this person generally agrees with me.

[00:24:12] But you still should be able to look at every issue they're presenting and say, well, maybe I disagree with you on this issue.

[00:24:18] I agree with you on most things.

[00:24:19] But I'm going to critically look at this and not just accept everything coming from Fox News or everything coming from this one podcaster as something I believe myself to.

[00:24:29] You need to be able to have these arguments and be able to see both sides and really be able to think for yourself, which I think a lot of people right now just want you to accept everything they put out is true, which is what we saw during the election.

[00:24:41] But I think you see people are really trying to have more of these conversations.

[00:24:46] And that's hopefully we can get back to a place where we can have debates that are less emotional and really just talk about facts and go back and forth and really evaluate things more logically.

[00:24:56] I hope so, too.

[00:24:58] I mean, that really is the foundation of our nation.

[00:25:01] Oftentimes the founding fathers are lumped together, but they debated fiercely about multiple issues, including how our constitution would be formed, whether we needed the constitution.

[00:25:10] And we have definitely lost many of us anyway, have lost that ability to debate in society.

[00:25:17] And we're seeing an example of this after the election.

[00:25:20] So, Peyton, tell us about this article that came out from Fox.

[00:25:24] We have it posted on pointofview.net.

[00:25:26] But it's actually it's really sad what a lot of people, the measures that they are taking against those who disagree with them.

[00:25:33] Yeah, this is just so sad.

[00:25:35] So the headline rings Yale psychiatrist calls it, quote, essential for liberals to cut off Trump voting loved ones during the holidays.

[00:25:42] So Yale University chief psychiatry resident Dr. Amanda Calhoun spoke to MSNBC host Joy Reid on Friday, this past Friday, about ways liberals who are devastated with Trump's reelection this week can cope with news, including separating from certain loved ones.

[00:26:01] And this just breaks my heart because, you know, at the end of the day, we're not going to solve anything by avoidance.

[00:26:08] As you all were saying, it's all about healthy discussion or even healthy debate.

[00:26:12] But at the end of the day, your identity is not in politics.

[00:26:16] It's not in a political figure.

[00:26:18] So why would you choose to distance yourself and not go to holidays and separate yourself from people who have loved you for years based on one election and one or one thing of political opinion or outcome?

[00:26:33] And so this just breaks my heart, because if people were more willing to go in, have those discussions, if the opportunity arose, hear both sides and have empathy and be human and just have those discussions.

[00:26:47] But just because you disagree doesn't mean like you need to attack the person or distance yourself completely.

[00:26:53] One of my friends was talking just earlier today and she heard someone say online, on social media, they're like, oh, yeah, I've already blocked my dad on my phone because they voted differently.

[00:27:05] And that just breaks my heart to shut down entire relationships for years based on a political outcome.

[00:27:14] Yeah. And, you know, I think we do have to look at this in the broader context of the last few years.

[00:27:19] And just as to Nathan's point, the lack of critical thought, because we have gone moved again.

[00:27:27] This goes back to kind of the ideology of critical theory, where if you don't agree with me, then you are evil.

[00:27:35] And we saw this movement at university.

[00:27:40] Speaking of distrust in universities and Ivy League education, you know,

[00:27:44] this is an example with kind of the stuff that people are hearing from higher ups at places like Yale.

[00:27:50] You know, a lot of Americans that they know that that's not right and that doesn't resonate with them.

[00:27:55] But anyways, we have what we're told that words are violent.

[00:28:01] And so I can't handle this is what, you know, many people have been raised to believe is I can't handle hearing an idea that make that is different than mine,

[00:28:13] because if you don't agree with me on X, Y and Z, that means that you are evil, that I am actually unsafe.

[00:28:21] So I don't want to minimize concerns of actual, you know, prejudice or issues or conflicts, because, of course, this happened in America.

[00:28:30] It's not a perfect nation by any means.

[00:28:31] And so we do want to take those seriously.

[00:28:33] But more of the broader issue of you saw this election differently than I did.

[00:28:38] And therefore, now I cannot communicate with you.

[00:28:42] America can't go on like this.

[00:28:44] We were made to be a pluralist society.

[00:28:47] And I think that actually a lot of the work that you do at First Liberty, Nathan, contributes to that because it's saying let's get back to our roots.

[00:28:54] We don't have to all agree, but we all need to have that freedom to express that deep part of ourselves.

[00:29:00] Yeah, I think when you look back at the founding of the country, the biggest thing that brought everyone together was the freedom of religion.

[00:29:08] They were trying to get away from Church of England, what was going on in England and wanting to have these differences of religious thought.

[00:29:18] And there's a lot of there's a quote.

[00:29:20] I can't remember who it's by, but one of our founders that basically just says that without without religion, everything, the whole structure falls apart, essentially, because we were founded as a as a Christian nation.

[00:29:32] And if we at the root, we're seeing that now, we're at the root of everything.

[00:29:36] If we can't agree on our faith, if we can't agree on a basic faith background, then other things are going to start taking that place.

[00:29:43] And I think what we're seeing right now is some people are having politics become the new almost like a faith structure where all their hope is in who's the president, who's in charge versus.

[00:29:56] Hey, we might disagree on a lot of these things, but at the end of the day, if we can come back to our faith, if we can come back to what is the what is the most important thing in our in our lives.

[00:30:06] But I think we've become we've lost that faith as a nation and can't be considered a, you know, overtly Christian nation.

[00:30:15] Now, a lot of people would consider the decline in Christianity in our country and the rise in atheism, I think, causes a lot of the things we're seeing today.

[00:30:24] Yes, I agree. And this is why having a biblical worldview is so important, because when we are looking in a situation like this from a biblical perspective and by the way, even we've talked about this on point of view, too.

[00:30:37] But even among people who self identify as Christians, the percentage of adults in America who actually have a biblical worldview in terms of agreeing with kind of the basic tenets of Christianity, it's a very small percentage.

[00:30:50] And so if as believers, we need to be making sure that we are looking through things with a biblical lens, not giving in just to our media echo chambers, but saying, OK, guess what?

[00:31:00] We live in a fallen world. We are all different. We are all made in the image of God, but we are all different.

[00:31:06] We are all fallen. We're all going to make mistakes. We're going to make misjudgments and miscalculations.

[00:31:11] But this is a person that is loved and made in the image of God. Therefore, I love them.

[00:31:17] I treat them with dignity and respect, and I can still engage with them and love that person, even if they have a vastly different opinion from me.

[00:31:25] But like you were saying, if politics is God, if that is at the end all be all for you and that is the source of your hope, then it makes sense that there really is kind of just this hopelessness.

[00:31:38] If if your side doesn't win and we have to make sure that we don't fall into that.

[00:31:43] Yeah, I actually had someone who commented on a post that I made post-election and she said, you know, Peyton, that's that's great if you're securing your heavenly position.

[00:31:55] And that just broke, broke my heart because that is just she doesn't have that hope.

[00:32:02] It truly only is in the political outcome and things of this earth.

[00:32:07] And at the end of the day, as Christians, we know we are citizens of heaven.

[00:32:11] We are going to be involved in politics.

[00:32:12] We're going to vote.

[00:32:13] We're going to do our citizen duty.

[00:32:15] But at the end of the day, we have such hope and such freedom, knowing that our identity isn't in politics.

[00:32:22] It is in Christ.

[00:32:23] It is in Jesus.

[00:32:24] And that is a beautiful thing.

[00:32:26] And so I just hope all of us can continue to, you know, express it that way over the holidays.

[00:32:33] Be kind, have empathy, share love and have open discussion.

[00:32:39] So that way people can come to know the love of Jesus and potentially also see different points of view.

[00:32:47] Yes.

[00:32:47] Such wise words.

[00:32:48] So we're about to go to one of those breaks.

[00:32:50] But stay with us because we have one last segment and we will be highlighting an article published in Christianity today that I really like it because it takes us through multiple points of scripture and how we can practically apply these biblical eternal truths to this.

[00:33:06] And the situation, the environment that we're in.

[00:33:08] And I'll also just plug Know Why Podcast.

[00:33:11] You can go to KnowWhyPodcast.com.

[00:33:13] It's an affiliate ministry with Point of View.

[00:33:14] And I'm the host of Know Why Podcast.

[00:33:16] And our goal is to talk about current and relevant issues like this, specifically for a younger audience.

[00:33:22] So if you have friends or relatives who are Gen Z and they want to engage in a little bit shorter, 20 to 30 minutes, compelling discussions, thoughtful discussions about these kinds of issues, send them to the podcast, KnowWhyPodcast.com.

[00:33:37] But we're on the Point of View Weekend Edition and we'll be right back after this short break.

[00:33:56] It's been a long time since conservatives expected fair and balanced coverage of elections by the legacy media.

[00:34:02] But the left counts on traditional news outlets to tip the scales with favorable coverage of its candidates and issues.

[00:34:09] True to form, major outlets like The New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN, NBC, ABC and CBS covered the 2024 campaigns and handled debates and interviews in the biased way they always do.

[00:34:21] But in this election, the media's failure to provide truthful and fair coverage hurt the left.

[00:34:27] Wall Street Journal columnist Kimberly Strassel writes,

[00:34:30] So long as the left is pointing fingers, let it direct a big fat digit at the outfit that played the biggest role in losing at the election, the U.S. media.

[00:34:39] We cannot place the media in one overarching category.

[00:34:42] The journal itself is legacy media, but its editorial page skews right.

[00:34:47] Today, Americans have numerous media outlets to choose from, and so do candidates.

[00:34:52] Even The Washington Post points out that Trump and his surrogates saw incredible value in tapping into a podcast ecosystem that has large numbers of young male listeners who otherwise might have skipped casting ballots.

[00:35:04] Meanwhile, much of the media ignored and expected voters to ignore border chaos, higher prices, and especially President Biden's decline.

[00:35:12] As Kim Strassel points out, in a world with a competent press, Mr. Biden's failing constitution would have been front page news.

[00:35:20] Instead, the legacy media cooperated with the Democrats in covering it up.

[00:35:24] If they had done a better job reporting on it, there would have been time to hold a primary, which would have produced a tested nominee.

[00:35:31] Big shock.

[00:35:32] Americans didn't buy narratives like,

[00:35:34] We're experiencing one of the strongest economies ever.

[00:35:37] Or,

[00:35:37] Crime is falling.

[00:35:38] First Amendment freedoms include the press, because the press is meant to provide politicians with gut checks as to how their policies sit with the nation.

[00:35:47] Traditional news outlets face a reckoning.

[00:35:49] For Point of View, I'm Penna Dexter.

[00:35:55] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:36:01] Welcome back to Point of View.

[00:36:02] We are about to wrap up the weekend edition, but we have a few more minutes left, so please stay with us.

[00:36:06] It has been a great conversation so far with Peyton Luke and Nathan Shackelford, both from First Liberty Institute, and we've discussed lots today.

[00:36:15] If you missed any of it, go to pointofview.net and read the articles that we have posted there as resources for you, free resources to take advantage of.

[00:36:24] But I did want to keep talking about this for just a moment.

[00:36:27] Peyton, you were telling us about a recent interview that was in the media where there was a Yale psychiatrist telling people to cut off loved ones who voted for Trump.

[00:36:38] And this is just an example of the bigger issue that we're seeing.

[00:36:41] A lot of you who are listening have probably experienced this.

[00:36:45] Arguments and fights with loved ones or people that used to be friends.

[00:36:48] And you have seen, you know, maybe you've heard it turns out that you have seen some things differently.

[00:36:55] I think a lot of people are probably experiencing this after this election in particular because you had a lot of people who voted differently than they have in the past.

[00:37:03] We've even seen this within the church, sadly, where there have been big divisions and attacks.

[00:37:10] Christians, brothers and sisters in Christ who are just very hostile with each other or saying they're not real Christians, you know, because they voted this way.

[00:37:20] And you can have your disagreements.

[00:37:21] And again, those healthy debates.

[00:37:23] But just some of the just hostility that we're seeing is troubling.

[00:37:28] But how do we respond as Christians?

[00:37:31] I wanted to highlight this article.

[00:37:32] It's by Bonnie Christian from Christianity Today.

[00:37:36] And I encourage you to read it at that pointofview.net.

[00:37:40] And she takes us through multiple scriptures, multiple verses that are so applicable right now.

[00:37:47] I'll just go through and hit a few of them.

[00:37:49] These are things that are timeless for us.

[00:37:51] And it doesn't depend on how we voted or who won the election.

[00:37:56] Obey the king's command.

[00:37:58] Obey our leader's command.

[00:37:59] We are told to respect our government authorities in scripture.

[00:38:04] However, our ultimate obedience is to the Lord.

[00:38:07] So stand up, you know, for truth.

[00:38:10] Stand up for what is right.

[00:38:12] And so we need to make sure that even if our side won who we voted for won that we are thinking for ourselves, like Nathan said earlier, not just going along because it's our party or it's who we voted for.

[00:38:25] And to keep God first.

[00:38:27] But we also don't want to get caught up in fear or worry because nobody knows the future.

[00:38:32] We've been talking a lot about the potential changes that might come in the next administration.

[00:38:36] But no one knows who's going to happen, what's going to happen.

[00:38:39] So all we can do is really trust the Lord, be secure in him, keep on loving one another as brothers and sisters.

[00:38:47] And this is so important.

[00:38:49] And I thought she made a really good point because in the book of Hebrews, in the Bible, we are told to have hospitality to strangers.

[00:38:59] Remember those in prison, those who are mistreated.

[00:39:02] And this was written to a group of people who were poor.

[00:39:05] They were powerless in their society.

[00:39:07] And yet they still had a duty to the stranger, the prisoner and the suffering.

[00:39:10] So how much more do we have a responsibility?

[00:39:13] And so we can't lose sight of that, you know, no matter what's happening in politics.

[00:39:18] And then we have to reject the idols of our society.

[00:39:22] Now, as it was then, sexual immorality and money, those are big idols in our society.

[00:39:27] We have to make sure that we are making sure we're not giving over to those and just keeping God's truth above all else.

[00:39:35] But anyways, this is just there are more points that she makes in the article.

[00:39:39] I wanted to highlight it because I do think it gives us kind of a roadmap as believers, regardless of how you feel about the election results, what the outcome was.

[00:39:50] It gives us some pointers to just remember to have grace and continue to do what we were called to do as Christians.

[00:39:56] But Peyton, I want to know if there's anything that stuck out to you in particular from this advice.

[00:40:00] Yeah, I love this kind of as we were saying earlier, you know, identity is not in politics and there is hope, especially as citizens of heaven.

[00:40:09] And the verse that I want to highlight is Romans 12, particularly 9 through 16.

[00:40:13] I'm not going to take time to read all of it on the air, but I encourage you to read it leading up to the holiday season.

[00:40:17] And just to summarize, you know, love must be sincere.

[00:40:21] Be devoted to one another in love.

[00:40:23] Honor one another above yourself.

[00:40:25] Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer.

[00:40:29] Share with the Lord's people who are in need and practice hospitality, especially coming up with the holidays.

[00:40:35] Bless those who persecute you.

[00:40:36] Bless and do not curse.

[00:40:38] Rejoice with those who rejoice.

[00:40:40] Mourn with those who mourn.

[00:40:42] Live in harmony with one another.

[00:40:44] Yes, so good.

[00:40:45] And Nathan, I think you mentioned something over one of the breaks.

[00:40:49] It was actually really practical in terms like if you are a little bit nervous because maybe you have a relationship and you have different views on things.

[00:40:57] We've lost the art of debate.

[00:40:58] But an exercise that we can take is to actually truly try to defend the opposite position from ours to make sure that we understand it.

[00:41:06] So tell us more about, you know, how you think we should approach these kinds of conversations.

[00:41:11] Yeah, I think a lot of times we just we lose track of there's another side of this or there's another logical way.

[00:41:17] I think a lot of times we're taught, well, or we think, well, our way is the right way and there's no other logical way to come about this.

[00:41:24] But if you take a second and you think, OK, well, in this situation, let's say I'm not like we were talking about.

[00:41:29] Let's say I'm not a Christian.

[00:41:30] That would that could totally impact the way we see the election, the way we see things.

[00:41:35] If there is no if this person thinks there is no God, then this could be traumatic.

[00:41:40] And so just thinking about where is this other person coming from?

[00:41:44] What views do they have?

[00:41:45] And showing love to those people in those conversations, understanding that they're going to have that other people might have different ways of coming to their ideas and different backgrounds that form their ideas.

[00:41:56] Yes, absolutely.

[00:41:56] So it is coming up on a holiday season, as we've said.

[00:42:00] So maybe challenge yourself and, you know, be intentional about going to those family gatherings or those gatherings of friends, even if you're going to have some people there you disagree with.

[00:42:09] And, you know, you don't have to talk about politics at the Thanksgiving dinner table.

[00:42:14] In fact, maybe it's wise not to.

[00:42:15] But you also don't have to be afraid of the conversation because it could lead you to some opportunities to really connect with somebody on a deeper level.

[00:42:22] So I do want to just bring one more thing to your attention, though.

[00:42:27] We've been talking about so much today about potential changes coming up with the administration regarding education.

[00:42:35] We've been talking about the changing media landscape.

[00:42:37] And while we have Nathan here from First Liberty switching gears a little bit, tell us what are some other changes that we can be anticipating or looking for that may potentially happen starting in January?

[00:42:51] Yeah.

[00:42:51] One of the biggest things for people to realize is that now that Trump, President Trump will have the presidency and the Senate, there's going to be an open window for about two years to nominate really good judges.

[00:43:03] We saw this during his first administration where he put in hundreds of federal judges, multiples from court judges.

[00:43:10] And you might say, well, how does this make a difference for me today?

[00:43:12] Well, if we have judges that are going to follow the law, the law is written to protect people of faith in this country.

[00:43:18] And if you have judges that will uphold the laws that's written, it not only protects us but our kids and our grandkids for years to come.

[00:43:24] If a federal judge is put on the bench and he's and this judge is in their 30s, 40s, 50s, they're going to be on the bench for the rest of their life.

[00:43:30] So President Trump is going to have the ability to nominate probably about 150 to 175 federal judges and anywhere from one to three Supreme Court judges.

[00:43:40] And what this means is that we could have a lot more religious freedoms that could come from this.

[00:43:46] The stage will be set for us to take back those rights if we have those judges in place.

[00:43:50] So it's a really encouraging time as a person of faith in the country to know that we have a really bright future for our rights as people of faith in this country.

[00:44:00] Yes.

[00:44:00] And so, again, something to be praying for, too, that as the leaders make those appointments, that they are guided by wisdom and are able to make appointments that will truly benefit all Americans.

[00:44:11] And so I'm so thankful for the work that both of you do at First Liberty.

[00:44:14] Nathan, tell us a little bit more about what you do and where people can find information about you.

[00:44:19] Yeah. So if you go to FirstLibre.org, you'll see all of our information about what we do.

[00:44:23] I forgot to mention a second ago, we have the largest judicial vetting division in the country.

[00:44:27] So we'll be doing a lot of that research for these judges.

[00:44:30] We also have, if you're in your 20s to 40s or have kids and your kids or grandkids in your 20s to 40s,

[00:44:35] we have an initiative for those in their 20s to 40s that want to know more about their rights.

[00:44:39] And that's FirstLibre.org slash F3 or our F3 initiative.

[00:44:43] And then we have resources for everyone in every stage of life, from churches, parents, everything you can need.

[00:44:49] And if you're ever in a situation where you need legal help, you can always reach out to us on the Get Legal Help.

[00:44:54] And that's completely free. We don't charge for that.

[00:44:57] We just want to make sure faith is protected in this country.

[00:44:59] Wonderful. Well, thank you, Peyton and Nathan, for being on Point of View today.

[00:45:03] Thank you for listening to Point of View.

[00:45:04] Kirby will be back in studio on Monday.

[00:45:06] Have a great weekend.

[00:45:07] It almost seems like we live in a different world from many people in positions of authority.

[00:45:16] They say men can be women and women men.

[00:45:20] People are prosecuted differently or not at all, depending on their politics.

[00:45:25] Criminals are more valued and rewarded than law-abiding citizens.

[00:45:30] It's so overwhelming, so demoralizing.

[00:45:33] You feel like giving up, but we can't.

[00:45:36] We shouldn't.

[00:45:37] We must not.

[00:45:38] As Winston Churchill said to Britain in the darkest days of World War II,

[00:45:42] Never give in.

[00:45:44] Never give in.

[00:45:45] Never, never, never.

[00:45:47] Never yield to force.

[00:45:48] Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.

[00:45:52] And that's what we say to you today.

[00:45:55] This is not a time to give in, but to step up and join Point of View in providing clarity in the chaos.

[00:46:02] We can't do it alone, but together, with God's help, we will overcome the darkness.

[00:46:10] Invest in biblical clarity today at pointofview.net or call 1-800-347-5151.

[00:46:19] Pointofview.net and 800-347-5151.

[00:46:25] Point of View is produced by Point of View Ministries.