Point of View November 15, 2024 – Hour 1 : Weekend Edition

[00:00:04] Across America, live, this is Point of View, your guest host for Point of View.

[00:00:22] Welcome to Point of View. It's the Weekend Edition and I am your host today, Liberty McCarter, sitting in for Kirby Anderson.

[00:00:28] And I am surrounded by some excellent co-hosts. Over here to my left, I have Peyton Luke, media specialist at First Liberty Institute, and the producer and often guest host of First Liberty Live.

[00:00:38] So Peyton, welcome back to the studio.

[00:00:40] Absolutely. Thanks for having me, Liberty.

[00:00:42] And also in studio with us from First Liberty is Nathan Shackelford, Associate General Counsel for First Liberty and leader of their F3 initiative.

[00:00:51] If you listen to Point of View throughout the week, then you will have heard Nathan a couple of days ago.

[00:00:55] He was here in studio with Kirby talking more about the F3 initiative. Nathan, it's great to have you back.

[00:01:00] Yeah, great to be back.

[00:01:01] So we have a busy show today, lots of important topics to cover.

[00:01:06] So just a little rundown. And by the way, don't forget, you can follow along with everything that we're discussing today at pointofview.net and find the articles that we're referencing.

[00:01:15] And I encourage you to do that.

[00:01:16] But here in just a few minutes, we're going to dive into some cases.

[00:01:19] We always like to highlight what's going on at First Liberty and both Peyton and Nathan will give us some updates, especially if you are a parent of kids in grade school or college or a grandparent or maybe you're a student yourself.

[00:01:32] I think you're really going to be wanting to know what's going on with these cases.

[00:01:36] And then we'll broaden the conversation and talk about education, but specifically what the Trump, what President-elect Trump has promised to do in his administration.

[00:01:47] And we'll look at some of the potential there and the pros and cons of some of those potential changes to education in America.

[00:01:53] And then in the next hour, you'll want to stay with us because we'll be discussing Penna Dexter's commentary on the backlash to the mainstream media and some of the ramifications that's having in culture and how we can respond as Christians.

[00:02:05] So it's going to be a great show.

[00:02:06] But let's dive right in, Nathan.

[00:02:08] The other day, I think you briefly mentioned this case with Kirby, but let's go ahead and talk about it again.

[00:02:13] There was, if I'm understanding correctly, a fifth grade boy in California who was made to participate in an activity in class that violated his beliefs as a Christian.

[00:02:24] And his parents asked if they could opt out of this kind of activity.

[00:02:29] And they were told, no, they can't.

[00:02:32] Is that right?

[00:02:32] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:02:33] Absolutely.

[00:02:34] So, yeah, we're in Southern California.

[00:02:36] So, good.

[00:02:38] One of the better parts of California, San Diego area.

[00:02:41] And, yeah, fifth grade boy goes to class.

[00:02:45] He's told he needs to read this book called My Shadow is Pink, which is about a boy that feels like a girl on the inside.

[00:02:49] So, pushing LGBTQ, transgender mentality.

[00:02:54] And the parents said, hey, we're Christian people.

[00:02:58] This goes against what we believe.

[00:02:59] We want to opt our kids out of this book.

[00:03:02] And so, doesn't just stop there, though, when they're denied that.

[00:03:07] He was also, during that time, had to ask his kindergarten buddy what color he wanted his shadow to be and then draw the shadow.

[00:03:14] So, actually, not just read the book, but participate.

[00:03:17] And so, there's actually a really good law in California on you can opt out for sex ed.

[00:03:24] So, you generally think, okay, well, if you can opt out for sex ed, you can opt out for this.

[00:03:28] But the school is saying, no, it's not sex ed.

[00:03:29] It's a cultural or it's some kind of other issue that falls outside of sex ed.

[00:03:34] So, they said no.

[00:03:36] And then, they instituted a pink out the hate day to encourage all the other kids to wear pink, essentially to alienate the kid, isolate the kid.

[00:03:44] So, yeah, and that came out of our – that was something that came from a home event they were doing for F3 Initiative.

[00:03:50] So, just a parent that said – when we were talking about this, she said, I never thought this would happen to me.

[00:03:56] Yeah, and I think that goes to show, again, just how important it is to have those conversations and the great work that you are able to do with the F3 Initiative of connecting with people.

[00:04:06] Because I wonder if there are a lot of parents out there or students who don't realize all the rights that they do have as people of faith in the public school system.

[00:04:16] Yeah, I mean, we see this all – you see it all over the place because, really, if you're a parent and, you know, if you have a fifth-grade daughter in Seattle and she wants to start a prayer club and then the school says no prayer club but we can have all these other clubs, a lot of times as a parent in that situation, your options are we're taking out loans or depleting all of our savings to hire a hugely expensive attorney or we just give up.

[00:04:43] And so a lot of people don't know, okay, well, there's other options.

[00:04:45] I can actually stand up for my faith and I can actually have people that represent me for free.

[00:04:50] So when people can not only know what their rights are but then know there are people that can help them, it can help people to take a stand, make sure we don't lose rights.

[00:04:59] Because if we just let this – what happened and insinuate this happen and let what happens all over the country with school clubs, prayer clubs, if we just say, well, it's okay if we lose those, then eventually we'll just lose them all across the country.

[00:05:12] So we have to be able to stand up to those.

[00:05:13] Absolutely.

[00:05:14] And, Peyton, it's heartbreaking to me what Nathan referenced that the school not only said no to a reasonable request but then they retaliated and I was reading on FirstLiberty.org that there was actually so much bullying against this family after that that they had to move – they had to switch schools.

[00:05:35] And I think that that is unfortunately an accurate picture of what's happening in a lot of places around the country right now.

[00:05:43] Yeah, sure.

[00:05:44] It was such an unfortunate situation and I just can't believe that they were already teaching this material to kids of this age and then already involving a kindergartener by, you know, working with the elementary school student and asking that kindergartener, hey, what color do you want your shadow to be when they had their project?

[00:06:01] And it was just so unfortunate.

[00:06:03] And I know our particular client, he felt just so uncomfortable with the entire situation.

[00:06:08] So no child should be forced to speak a message that violates their religious convictions and the parents should know what their kids are learning in school and have the option to opt out.

[00:06:20] So we hope the district ends its unclearly unlawful behavior and protects the religious liberty of every student by granting our clients the ability to opt their children out.

[00:06:29] Absolutely. So, again, this is something that unfortunately people are dealing with.

[00:06:35] Nathan, I know you mentioned you talk with a lot of young parents.

[00:06:38] And, you know, this is something that Point of View has highlighted that there are these, you know, sometimes extreme ideologies or very political agendas that are being introduced in the classroom and in very young grades.

[00:06:52] And it's not happening in every single school district.

[00:06:55] And so some parents may think, well, you know, I don't really think it's as big of a problem.

[00:07:00] But I was just talking to someone the other day that they moved here to Texas and they had been in another state where they were surprised when this same kind of curriculum was being taught to their kindergartner.

[00:07:12] And I think it's kind of like you said, you know, they never thought that this would happen to me or that I would be confronted with this choice.

[00:07:21] But I think this is probably why a lot of parents are losing faith in public education.

[00:07:25] Yeah, there's a there's a good quote by Justice Roberts that says you can't fight for your rights if you don't know what they are.

[00:07:32] And I think when we're talking about kids, a lot of kids don't you're in school to kind of learn, kind of get the start on life to kind of figure out how you how you're going to shape your worldview, how you're supposed to interact with people.

[00:07:45] You're learning so much.

[00:07:47] And it's really on the parents to kind of know what's right and wrong.

[00:07:51] The kid's not going to isn't going to know what's right and wrong.

[00:07:53] They're just being taught.

[00:07:54] They're being taught essentially what's right and wrong.

[00:07:56] So the parents, if if we see education shifting one way, the parents have to be the ones that are educated to say, no, my kids aren't going to be a part of this or no, you're you're doing this in a way that I don't want my kids to be in.

[00:08:07] And so I think a lot of it starts with parents having to be involved, being watching what's what's going on, having conversation with their kids and really knowing what their rights are to make sure their kids aren't put in these types of situations.

[00:08:18] Yes.

[00:08:19] Good point, because as parents, we are the ones ultimately in charge of our kids education.

[00:08:26] And I think that a lot of times in our nation and in different school systems, we lose sight of that.

[00:08:31] But it is our job to be, you know, the overseers of that education and partner with other schools.

[00:08:36] But we have another education related case to talk about right after this break.

[00:08:40] So stay with us.

[00:08:42] And don't forget, you can follow along with our topics at point of view dot net.

[00:08:45] We'll be right back after this short break.

[00:08:58] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:02] Ned Ryan begins his article with these questions.

[00:09:05] What if I told you that the president of the United States doesn't really run our government or that people in Washington, D.C.

[00:09:11] don't really believe in representative democracy or that a government of by and for the people is just an illusion.

[00:09:17] His article and his book, American Leviathan, the birth of an administrative state and progressive authoritarianism, explains that we have moved from a republic to an un-American administrative state.

[00:09:28] He calls it a slow regime change or a gradual coup that is undermining our constitution in our constitutional republic.

[00:09:35] It has undercut the original intent of the constitution.

[00:09:39] It has eroded our freedoms.

[00:09:40] It has undermined our civil liberties.

[00:09:43] Back to his original questions.

[00:09:44] The administrative state calls into question who is governing our country.

[00:09:48] We have seen this in the last few years of the Biden administration.

[00:09:52] So many of us wondered who was making the important decisions since it seemed obvious to most of us that the president wasn't up to the task mentally.

[00:10:00] Ned Ryan provides the history that goes back to the progressive movement led by Woodrow Wilson.

[00:10:04] The goal was to build a massive bureaucracy filled with unelected bureaucrats who were separated from political accountability.

[00:10:12] These elites would govern our country.

[00:10:14] They rejected the idea of a rights-based government because it was too limited in size and scope.

[00:10:19] That is why we have a sprawling federal bureaucracy.

[00:10:22] He argues that the president and Congress needs to break apart the administrative state and return legislative powers back to the Article I branch of government.

[00:10:31] To put it simply, it is time to drain the swamp.

[00:10:34] If this happens, we need more than slogans.

[00:10:36] We need action.

[00:10:37] I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:46] For a free booklet on biblical reliability, go to viewpoints.info slash biblical reliability.

[00:10:53] Viewpoints.info slash biblical reliability.

[00:10:58] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:11:04] Welcome back to the Weekend Edition.

[00:11:05] I'm Liberty McCarter sitting in today for Kirby Anderson, and I am with, in-studio, Peyton Luke and Nathan Shackelford, both from First Liberty Institute.

[00:11:14] We were just talking about a case involving a fifth-grade boy in California who was told that he could not have an exemption from a class activity that violated his religious beliefs.

[00:11:26] And so, thankfully, you guys are on that case, and you are standing up for the rights of that young man and families everywhere.

[00:11:34] But in terms of higher education, there is another situation going on at First Liberty.

[00:11:41] So, you guys just announced this week in your press release that you filed an appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court on behalf of Bethesda University.

[00:11:50] And this has to do with the rights of religious institutions to be able to operate in accordance with their religious beliefs.

[00:11:58] So, Peyton, tell us about that case.

[00:11:59] Sure. So, this has to do with church autonomy or, as the attorneys like to call it, ecclesiastical abstention.

[00:12:09] But anyway, yeah, and I'll get into the details of what exactly that means.

[00:12:13] But essentially, we filed a cert petition at the United States Supreme Court, which means we are asking SCOTUS to hear the case.

[00:12:20] They have not accepted yet, but we have sent in our request.

[00:12:24] So, Bethesda University is a Korean-American Pentecostal institution located in California.

[00:12:30] Here's another case in California.

[00:12:31] Okay, California again. All right.

[00:12:32] Yep.

[00:12:33] It was forced to include board members that were not in the same denomination, and the courts got involved.

[00:12:41] So, this is kind of a government interference situation.

[00:12:44] So, here's what happened, essentially.

[00:12:47] The university's president wanted individuals who did not share those religious beliefs to be on the board.

[00:12:53] The rest of the board objected.

[00:12:55] The full rest of the board objected.

[00:12:58] And essentially, they let the president go, and then he and then the rival board faction filed a lawsuit.

[00:13:05] Then, the California courts got involved, and it essentially held that the Pentecostal organization's foundational documents must permit others to occupy some of the highest leadership positions,

[00:13:18] even if they don't share the university's religious commitment.

[00:13:23] Wow.

[00:13:23] So, this is really rough.

[00:13:26] So, why does this matter to some of our listeners or the everyday American?

[00:13:31] Well, essentially, if this is allowed to stand, it sets a bad precedent, which means that it could impact other churches or religious institutions,

[00:13:43] Christian universities, other religious universities down the road.

[00:13:48] So, that's why it is so very important.

[00:13:51] And I do want to quote Jeremy Dice, who's our senior counsel on this particular case.

[00:13:57] And he says,

[00:13:58] How religious organizations choose to operate is a sacred right protected by the First Amendment.

[00:14:03] Secular courts are not competent to evaluate the religious character of religious organizations.

[00:14:09] The U.S. Supreme Court has made it clear that the Constitution protects the independence of the religious organizations to choose their own leaders,

[00:14:18] and we ask it to do so once again in this particular case.

[00:14:22] And if you look at some other law, and even stated in our petition, we were quoting Jones v. Wolf from 1979.

[00:14:32] And it says,

[00:14:33] The First Amendment prohibits civil courts from resolving disputes on the basis of religious doctrine and practice.

[00:14:39] So, essentially, the courts, based on past president, have been allowed to get involved if there is a dispute based on property.

[00:14:49] But they're not supposed to be getting involved if it's with religious doctrine.

[00:14:54] So, as Jeremy has mentioned before, you know, the California court should have looked at this, and they should have been like, you know,

[00:15:01] this is outside of our jurisdiction.

[00:15:03] This is beyond what we need to get involved with.

[00:15:05] They should have dismissed the case.

[00:15:06] But, no, here we are, and so we are appealing to the Supreme Court.

[00:15:11] It's ironic to me, and maybe this shows a lack of understanding of the First Amendment,

[00:15:17] but in some cases you have the government saying you can't be involved in government in any way,

[00:15:25] in any sort of position or capacity if, you know, you are expressing faith.

[00:15:29] And then here, this is a very clear example of government getting involved in a private, you know, religious organization,

[00:15:37] which, again, it seems common sense that it's unconstitutional.

[00:15:41] But, again, I'm glad that we're highlighting this because I imagine there might be fear just in today's cultural climate

[00:15:49] for certain faith-based institutions like smaller schools or nonprofit groups who worry that, you know,

[00:15:58] are they going to get in trouble?

[00:15:59] Are they going to get forced to hire people in influential leadership positions that don't align with them theologically?

[00:16:06] Exactly.

[00:16:06] But any sort of faith-based group is formed typically to, in some way, perpetuate that faith and those beliefs,

[00:16:16] whether it's a school or a nonprofit group.

[00:16:18] And so if they can't hire people who espouse those beliefs that they're trying to advance,

[00:16:23] what's the point of even having religious institutions?

[00:16:27] Yeah, if you look at the founding of our country, if you look at the First Amendment, how it breaks down,

[00:16:33] there's under the religion clause, there's free exercise and establishment clause.

[00:16:39] And what the establishment clause says is we don't want there to be a nationally established religion.

[00:16:45] And that's kind of what you have here is the idea of we don't want government getting entangled with what churches are doing.

[00:16:52] So we don't want the government to be the one determining what is and is not religious,

[00:16:58] which is why if you look all throughout our protections, like in filing religious accommodations,

[00:17:05] it's very broad on what's defined as religious because we don't want the government saying we consider this religious but not this religious.

[00:17:12] And so it's the same thing here of if the government is allowed to dictate what happens in a religious university,

[00:17:20] that, well, what happens when you have a dispute inside of a church?

[00:17:24] We don't want the government to be able to come inside of a church and start telling the church,

[00:17:28] you have to allow this deacon to serve in your church or you need to have your board of elders be open.

[00:17:36] Because then at that point now we're just destroying all religious institutions,

[00:17:39] which was totally the opposite of what our founders intended.

[00:17:42] Absolutely.

[00:17:44] So, Peyton, I know that this is something that you is close to your heart because you have worked in specifically a religious college office in the past.

[00:17:55] So I bet you can really vividly imagine what it would have been like if the government had been involved in the everyday affairs of a Christian university.

[00:18:05] Yeah, for sure.

[00:18:05] Growing up, my dad was on church boards and then my first job out of college was actually working at my alma mater in the president's office.

[00:18:15] And so I worked with the president's cabinet.

[00:18:18] I worked with the board members.

[00:18:20] I was in a lot of those meetings.

[00:18:21] I saw a lot of the coordination of the administration around it and those relationships and the decisions that were made.

[00:18:27] And I can just imagine the stresses and all the conflict that would happen internally and not be able to get to a resolution on certain decisions for the good of the university.

[00:18:39] If you had opposing viewpoints and if they weren't aligned on their religious doctrine, because that is the heart of the university and a lot of these religious universities.

[00:18:49] So in this case, the very identity of Bethesda University is at stake.

[00:18:54] And that is why we are asking the Supreme Court to intervene and take this case.

[00:18:58] OK, well, and then I know that you don't know for sure on these things, but do you have a just timeline, a rough timeline of when you might know whether this case is actually going to be heard by the Supreme Court?

[00:19:11] It takes time. I mean, we won't hear this year.

[00:19:15] There are certain windows where where they kind of look at cases.

[00:19:19] They're generally often in summertime.

[00:19:20] So I don't know if there's a set time or not, but it definitely will be this year.

[00:19:25] Something to follow. Something to follow for sure.

[00:19:28] So we've discussed for, you know, for parents or for students, some of the rights that they have in public schools.

[00:19:35] We were talking about religious institutions, including universities, churches.

[00:19:39] So if somebody is saying, I wonder if that applies to me or what exactly that means for my situation or my group,

[00:19:47] First Liberty actually has some resources that are free and available for people to take advantage of to learn what their rights are in specific situations.

[00:19:56] Is that right?

[00:19:57] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:19:57] We have what we call protection kits on our website under the resources tab,

[00:20:02] and it breaks out to every topic you could think of that this could come up from private schools to public schools to people in the workplace,

[00:20:11] churches, nonprofits, all kinds of different topics that people could think, what are my rights for my faith in this space?

[00:20:19] And so if you want to get those, you can go to FirstLiberty.org and then go to the resources tab,

[00:20:24] and we have those all there for download that you can download for free.

[00:20:28] That is such a great resource.

[00:20:29] I definitely encourage you, if you're listening, to check that out, FirstLiberty.org.

[00:20:34] And, of course, you can find that link at PointOfView.net as well.

[00:20:37] So if you're just joining us, I'm Liberty McCarter sitting in for Kirby Anderson today on the weekend edition.

[00:20:43] And we have, as we always like to do on Fridays, been discussing some important updates on religious liberty,

[00:20:50] some cases that First Liberty Institute is handling, and so you can read more about those by going to PointOfView.net

[00:20:57] and reading the articles that we have posted for free there.

[00:20:59] I'm also going to encourage you to follow us on social media.

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[00:21:14] I want to catch up, there's something called PointOfView Highlights on Spotify,

[00:21:18] put together by our audio engineer, Megan.

[00:21:21] So definitely go to Spotify.

[00:21:22] Subscribe to PointOfView Highlights so you can stay up to date on all the topics we cover.

[00:21:26] But we'll be right back with more after this short break.

[00:21:31] The Bible tells us not to worry.

[00:21:34] And yet there is a lot of worrying stuff in our world today.

[00:21:39] Thankfully, the Bible doesn't stop at telling us not to worry.

[00:21:44] God gives us a next step.

[00:21:46] He says we need to pray.

[00:21:48] But sometimes even knowing what to pray can be difficult.

[00:21:53] And that is why PointOfView has relaunched our Pray for America movement,

[00:21:58] a series of weekly emails to guide you in prayer for our nation.

[00:22:03] Each week you'll receive a brief update about a current issue affecting Americans,

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[00:22:14] We'll also include a short free resource for you in each email so you can learn more about the issue at hand.

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[00:22:25] Go to PointOfView.net.

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[00:22:48] Point of View will continue after this.

[00:22:51] You are listening to Point of View.

[00:23:02] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station.

[00:23:10] And now, here again, your guest host for Point of View.

[00:23:15] Welcome back to the weekend edition.

[00:23:17] We are talking about education.

[00:23:18] We've been discussing some First Liberty cases that had to do with education,

[00:23:22] both in the grade school level and at the university level.

[00:23:25] But let's talk about some things that might change with regard to education.

[00:23:29] We've got a new presidential administration that will be taking office in January.

[00:23:35] And how will that affect education?

[00:23:38] So if you go to PointOfView.net, one of the articles we have listed there is from the Wall Street Journal.

[00:23:43] It is all about President-elect Trump's plans for how he is going to tackle multiple education issues.

[00:23:50] So over the next few minutes, we'll talk about what some of those are, our thoughts, pros and cons,

[00:23:55] whether or not they're likely to happen.

[00:23:57] But just an overview, some of the things mentioned in that Wall Street Journal article,

[00:24:02] Trump has talked about eliminating the Department of Education,

[00:24:08] likely to be a very controversial take, already is both sides of the aisle.

[00:24:15] But I think that a lot of people could agree there have definitely been some issues with the Department of Education.

[00:24:19] So we'll see whether or not that actually gets eliminated.

[00:24:23] That's going to be a difficult process if he does want to go through with that.

[00:24:26] He's talked about tackling the left-wing ideology that's permeating so many universities

[00:24:31] and even grade schools like we've been talking about.

[00:24:34] You have examples like we just spoke about earlier on the show,

[00:24:37] the case in California with in fifth grade,

[00:24:40] a child was not able to opt out of a very progressive gender ideology lesson because of his religious faith.

[00:24:50] So you're having more and more families deal with things like that.

[00:24:53] I've talked to parents who have left public school or moved to a different district because of those kinds of issues.

[00:25:00] Also, you have the issue of sports and students who identify as transgender playing on whichever sports team they choose

[00:25:09] and using whichever bathroom and locker room they choose.

[00:25:11] I think this was an issue that resonated with a lot of parents leading up to the election,

[00:25:16] which we've discussed on Point of View.

[00:25:18] But I think that is something that has concerned a lot of parents,

[00:25:22] especially when you get up to the high school level.

[00:25:25] And there are a lot of differences between male players and female players and concerns over fair competition.

[00:25:33] We do have the change that happened in the Biden administration so that sex discrimination includes gender identification,

[00:25:43] which, again, is something that a lot of people have a problem with because they feel like it erases rights.

[00:25:48] It's four girls in school, as it was supposed to originally protect.

[00:25:52] And then just other changes, too.

[00:25:55] He's talked about universal school choice.

[00:25:57] So, Nathan, I wanted to turn it to you because you're a parent yourself.

[00:26:00] So you might be thinking about education at the grade school level before too long.

[00:26:05] I'm a parent of two young ones, and we homeschool.

[00:26:08] And you also work through F3 initiative with First Liberty, a lot of parents of young kids.

[00:26:14] So what are your thoughts on some of these issues that Trump wants to address?

[00:26:18] What do you think might resonate most?

[00:26:20] Yeah, I mean, I think one of the biggest issues that we've seen in the education system is teaching kids what to think instead of how to think.

[00:26:29] A lot of times it's just we want you to know these things for standardized tests,

[00:26:33] but then we want you to almost be – we almost want kids to be just empty vessels that we can fill with whatever agenda we want to push

[00:26:43] versus teaching students how actually to process, to think through things.

[00:26:48] I mean, you can see that we – if you look at some of the classes that a lot of kids take,

[00:26:54] they don't take history a lot of times until they're a lot older.

[00:26:57] And then when they're doing history, a lot of their thing – a lot of the focus is on memorize this date for the test.

[00:27:03] You need to know that an 1870 whatever.

[00:27:06] But you don't see debate.

[00:27:07] You don't see let's take an issue and talk about both sides of it.

[00:27:10] It would be like teaching that two plus two is four but not teaching how to get the addition.

[00:27:17] So I think a lot of parents just want their kids to know how to think versus what to think.

[00:27:22] And so when we talked about that school choice type issue, you know, and a lot of how our society works is if we don't like something,

[00:27:30] we have the free market system to be able to say, well, if this isn't working for me, I'm going to do something else.

[00:27:34] But in the education system, you're – if you don't have a school choice program, those dollars fall to your kids.

[00:27:39] So if you put your kid in a private school, you're paying for the education of that public school,

[00:27:43] but you're also paying for the private school at the same time.

[00:27:45] So if we have these school choice programs that come in, that will really allow parents to kind of choose where they educate their child.

[00:27:53] And we've seen that play out in different places, even in liberal California where they have a really good charter system

[00:28:01] that will allow homeschool families to actually have these homeschool co-ops and use state funding for that.

[00:28:08] Of course, then they've then tried to twist it where you can't use religious curriculum.

[00:28:12] So we have a lawsuit in California for that.

[00:28:14] But there are these signs that people really want to have more of a say in education in their child

[00:28:21] so they can just be good citizens and know how to think instead of just knowing facts for a test.

[00:28:26] So good, yes.

[00:28:28] That is definitely one of the biggest issues that I've seen.

[00:28:32] I taught for a few years as well in a small Christian school,

[00:28:35] but a lot of those students were leaving the previous context of the public school.

[00:28:39] And I think that that is just an aspect and a purpose of education that has been lost.

[00:28:46] But I just want to mention, you know, I know a lot of times people talk about, oh, so many people are leaving public schools.

[00:28:52] But since the pandemic began, public schools have lost about a million students, which is huge.

[00:28:59] And a lot of that is due to, you know, what they saw during the pandemic, the lack of choice, the lack of school choice,

[00:29:06] the kind of progressive ideologies that they are seeing taught in schools.

[00:29:12] But a new issue is popping up.

[00:29:14] I did want to highlight briefly.

[00:29:15] It's not on the website at Point of View, but you can look up the Free Press.

[00:29:19] And they published a lengthy investigative report by the author and journalist Abigail Schreier.

[00:29:26] And it is called the Kindergarten Intifada, which basically she says there is a well-coordinated national effort between teachers,

[00:29:36] activist organizations and administrators to indoctrinate American children against Israel.

[00:29:40] And she raises our attention to the fact that this is kind of the new ideology that is sweeping.

[00:29:47] And you might think, well, surely not everywhere.

[00:29:49] But there are so many examples.

[00:29:51] If you look up the article on Jewish kids being just horribly bullied in schools of actually, you know,

[00:29:58] these very anti-Israel curriculums being taught.

[00:30:02] So anyways, I do encourage listeners to look it up.

[00:30:05] But I don't really think it's a surprise that more and more parents are growing leery of public education and probably would welcome some of these changes.

[00:30:12] What do you think, Payton?

[00:30:13] Yeah.

[00:30:13] And I think with COVID, people realized how fragile our system is and started to take back the control and the ownership for themselves and their own family.

[00:30:22] And to mention the Free Press article like you did.

[00:30:25] Yeah.

[00:30:25] There is a video that is embedded in that article.

[00:30:29] And it's people talking at the United Teachers Los Angeles meeting.

[00:30:33] And literally the guy that is talking says how to be a teacher and an organizer and not get fired.

[00:30:40] Like they're teaching the teachers how to organize for pro-Hamas and pro-Palestine and intentionally indoctrinating against Israel, like you said.

[00:30:50] And it's so interesting because as someone who's in communication and PR, it is fascinating to me how Hamas and the people in charge of their messages are able to twist a message and manipulate and gaslight to where suddenly they seem like the victims when they were the ones that, you know, started in October 7th and other things.

[00:31:14] So it's just so interesting how they're able to take and twist those situations.

[00:31:18] But, yeah, it's interesting all the different things that Trump is now going to get into office and proposing to do.

[00:31:26] He'll need Congress's help on this.

[00:31:28] Just because he got elected does not mean he'll be able to initiate it on his own.

[00:31:32] He will need Congress's assistance.

[00:31:34] Yes.

[00:31:34] Good point.

[00:31:35] And we do know now as of this week that he not only has a Republican majority in the Senate, but also officially in the House of Representatives as well.

[00:31:42] So we'll see how that affects some of the education reforms that he's proposing.

[00:31:47] But, yes, I wanted to just make a connection really quick with another thing that was mentioned in that Free Press article.

[00:31:54] Kirby has talked a lot about critical theory.

[00:31:56] And we hear about critical race theory specifically as one of the things that parents have a problem with being taught in schools.

[00:32:03] But it's actually just one branch of a broader ideology that's rooted in Marxism.

[00:32:08] But it's a way of looking at the world.

[00:32:10] It's a worldview of its own where everything is viewed as oppressed versus oppressor.

[00:32:17] And if you are the oppressor, then you are automatically bad.

[00:32:22] If you are the oppressed, you are automatically good.

[00:32:24] And so it gives a very rigid way of looking at the world.

[00:32:29] But another image that was in that Free Press investigative report showed part of a curriculum that was being taught in elementary school where it literally lists Israel as the oppressor and other nations as the oppressed,

[00:32:44] saying that any time you have a group that is oppressing another group, they are automatically bad.

[00:32:51] Of course, there are oppressors and oppressed in life.

[00:32:55] But the Bible tells us that that's not really the lens that we should be looking at things through there.

[00:33:01] It's a lot more complicated in life.

[00:33:03] There's a lot more nuance.

[00:33:04] But this is just another example of, like you said, Peyton, yes, we are.

[00:33:08] There, you know, there is a distinct effort to manipulate public opinion regarding a whole host of issues, including about Israel, starting at the very youngest in our society.

[00:33:23] So this is something I wanted to raise your attention to.

[00:33:25] But we're about to come to one of those breaks.

[00:33:27] We will talk a little bit more about some of the K through 12 changes in education we might see, but also talk about some ways that Trump wants to reform colleges and universities.

[00:33:37] So stay tuned.

[00:33:38] We'll be right back after these short messages.

[00:33:55] It's been a long time since conservatives expected fair and balanced coverage of elections by the legacy media.

[00:34:01] But the left counts on traditional news outlets to tip the scales with favorable coverage of its candidates and issues.

[00:34:08] True to form, major outlets like the New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN, NBC, ABC, and CBS covered the 2024 campaigns and handled debates and interviews in the biased way they always do.

[00:34:21] But in this election, the media's failure to provide truthful and fair coverage hurt the left.

[00:34:27] Wall Street Journal columnist Kimberly Strassel writes,

[00:34:30] So long as the left is pointing fingers, let it direct a big fat digit at the outfit that played the biggest role in losing at the election, the U.S. media.

[00:34:39] We cannot place the media in one overarching category.

[00:34:42] The journal itself is legacy media, but its editorial page skews right.

[00:34:47] Today, Americans have numerous media outlets to choose from, and so do candidates.

[00:34:51] Even The Washington Post points out that Trump and his surrogates saw incredible value in tapping into a podcast ecosystem that has large numbers of young male listeners who otherwise might have skipped casting ballots.

[00:35:04] Meanwhile, much of the media ignored and expected voters to ignore border chaos, higher prices, and especially President Biden's decline.

[00:35:12] As Kim Strassel points out, in a world with a competent press, Mr. Biden's failing constitution would have been front page news.

[00:35:20] Instead, the legacy media cooperated with the Democrats in covering it up.

[00:35:24] If they had done a better job reporting on it, there would have been time to hold a primary, which would have produced a tested nominee.

[00:35:31] Big shock.

[00:35:32] Americans didn't buy narratives like, we're experiencing one of the strongest economies ever, or crime is falling.

[00:35:38] First Amendment freedoms include the press, because the press is meant to provide politicians with gut checks as to how their policies sit with the nation.

[00:35:46] Traditional news outlets face a reckoning.

[00:35:49] For Point of View, I'm Penna Dexter.

[00:35:55] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:36:01] Welcome back to the weekend edition on Point of View.

[00:36:03] I'm Liberty McCarter sitting in for Kirby Anderson today, and we have been having a great discussion on education with Peyton Luke and Nathan Shackelford.

[00:36:11] From First Liberty Institute.

[00:36:13] So we were just talking about a Wall Street Journal article that you can read going to pointofview.net, talking about some of the proposed changes that President-elect Donald Trump is wanting to make when he takes office in January.

[00:36:25] One of those is dismantling the Department of Education.

[00:36:29] Peyton, that seems like a kind of big task.

[00:36:32] What are your thoughts on that?

[00:36:32] It is a big task.

[00:36:33] And like I said right before the break, Trump can't do this alone.

[00:36:37] Just because he was elected president doesn't mean that it will automatically happen.

[00:36:41] He needs Congress's assistance to pass this and make this happen.

[00:36:45] But I did want to mention I have a lot of friends that are teachers, and I see both sides.

[00:36:52] I spent last night doing some research on this topic, and I got into the endless scroll of comments regarding this topic and seeing all kinds of things that people were saying.

[00:37:03] So I know some of the conversations around the programming and the funding that goes to students with disabilities.

[00:37:09] I know other conversations around like, okay, giving power to the states, but people were concerned because they weren't seeing a clear plan.

[00:37:19] But ultimately, I think it's interesting because, you know, even if he removes this agency, it doesn't mean the issues they're going to remove the issues that it addresses.

[00:37:30] It's more about finding a better, more effective solution.

[00:37:34] So it will be interesting as the days move forward, seeing how Trump lays out that plan.

[00:37:39] Those are good points.

[00:37:41] And, yes, I do just want to give respect and a shout out to the teachers out there because, look, it's not an easy job, like I said.

[00:37:49] I've, you know, taught for a brief cent and not in as big of classrooms as most people who are working in public education have to deal with.

[00:37:59] And so the teachers are doing the real work out there and working, oftentimes making the best of the environment that they're in and trying to help kids in the best way that they can.

[00:38:10] And I do think that this is kind of common for Trump is to make big sweeping promises that are usually rooted in some real issue.

[00:38:20] But I think it's always important to try to not simply be reactionary.

[00:38:26] We can react to problems.

[00:38:28] But as Peyton said, in a targeted or well thought out manner so that we're not creating more problems trying to address real problems that already exist.

[00:38:38] We'll see whether or not that, you know, kind of careful approach is taken in the next administration or not.

[00:38:45] It'll be lots to discuss for sure.

[00:38:47] But I did want to circle back to the universal school choice issue, because if that becomes a reality for people in every state where they can choose where to send their child to school,

[00:39:02] then there is actually a Supreme Court precedent that's going to support their rights in that.

[00:39:06] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:39:07] So First Liberty had a case a few years ago called Carson v.

[00:39:10] Macon that dealt with that issue where Maine is so rural in many areas that over half of their school districts don't have a public school in that school district.

[00:39:20] So if you want to send your kid to school, you may not have a place to send them.

[00:39:23] They put in this voucher system.

[00:39:25] You can send them anywhere you wanted, including across the border, all boy schools, all girl schools, whatever.

[00:39:30] And then a few years into it, put in a stipulation that said, but you can't send them to a religiously affiliated school because that would be a government endorsement of religion.

[00:39:39] We sued saying that's just religious discrimination because all you're doing is you're comparing a private school to a Christian school.

[00:39:46] If they hit the same accreditation, if they're teaching the same, you know, state standards or whatever, and they just have one as a class in religion, one doesn't.

[00:39:55] All you're doing is you're singling out that religious school.

[00:39:58] And so the Supreme Court agreed 6-3 and said they said clearly we're not making this a universal and saying now there's universal school choice.

[00:40:07] But when you have that school choice program moving forward, you cannot discriminate against religiously affiliated schools moving forward.

[00:40:14] And so that doesn't mean that, you know, I know a lot of people would be hesitant here to say, well, if I if I want to be if I want this type program to happen,

[00:40:24] that means that there'd be strings attached like they could tell the school you have to teach a transgender lesson or something like that or not be accredited.

[00:40:33] But I think the Supreme Court is made it pretty clear that they they want it to be with no strings attached that this the those universe,

[00:40:42] those schools could still continue to teach what they're teaching without having to shift all their curriculum to suddenly fall in line with what the public schools are teaching.

[00:40:50] And so that's a big deal for school choice program going forward.

[00:40:55] Yes, that is good to know.

[00:40:57] Again, First Liberty, just record breaking work, amazing work at the Supreme Court.

[00:41:03] This is just one of the many cases that you have won that have set great precedence for Americans of faith everywhere.

[00:41:09] But before I go over just a few changes that might happen with higher education,

[00:41:15] if parents have been listening and they are interested in knowing more about their religious liberty rights in the school system,

[00:41:21] they can actually get involved with F3 initiative, which you leave.

[00:41:25] So tell us how they can get involved with that.

[00:41:27] Yeah, F3 sounds stands for the future of faith and freedom.

[00:41:29] And we know that it's the young parents right now that are going to continue this movement forward of knowing what our rights are.

[00:41:36] And that case that we talked about, My Shadow is Pink, that came from a home event that we did in Southern California,

[00:41:42] where one of our ambassadors, our community leaders, heard what was happening to this family, brought them to an event,

[00:41:49] and then we were able to talk and then help them out.

[00:41:52] But we're looking for people all across the country that want to know more about their rights,

[00:41:56] want to help bring others in, and then support the mission of what we're doing.

[00:42:00] And the leaders of that are ambassadors who say, hey, I want to bring this to my community.

[00:42:04] I want this to be a thing where I'm at, and I want to be on the watch of my community for making sure that we're standing up for our rights.

[00:42:09] So if you're interested in that, you can go to firstlittlebe.org slash F3.

[00:42:13] There's a whole lot of information on there.

[00:42:15] And then those people that want to take that leadership step, we have that ambassador program.

[00:42:19] Great.

[00:42:20] So many ways to get involved and take action and make a difference and be able to stand up for your constitutional rights.

[00:42:25] But I did want to draw your attention to another article that's on pointofview.net,

[00:42:30] where you can follow along with everything we're discussing.

[00:42:32] But this one is from the American Enterprise Institute, because Trump has also floated a lot of ideas about ways to reform higher education.

[00:42:41] And this is relevant, too, because a lot of people are unsatisfied with higher education.

[00:42:47] And there is another report that just came out showing that Americans are, you know, often think that colleges are too liberal,

[00:42:57] that they are indoctrinating college students.

[00:42:59] They're brainwashing them.

[00:43:01] And then after many of the pro-Hamas demonstrations and protests we saw last year after October 7th,

[00:43:07] the public opinion of universities went down even more.

[00:43:11] So just, again, some of the things covered in that article from the American Enterprise Institute include accreditation reform.

[00:43:19] This would have to do with actually changing some of the methods and the ways that colleges receive accreditation,

[00:43:27] including the accreditors themselves who often maybe put pressure on universities to comply with certain, you know,

[00:43:34] more left-leaning agendas or policies or implementing some things like that.

[00:43:39] They've talked about expanding the endowment tax on wealthy colleges,

[00:43:43] which would basically in short terms be taxing Harvard for the benefit of the working class,

[00:43:51] which a lot of people probably initially like the sound of that.

[00:43:53] But Trump has also talked about creating a national American university.

[00:43:59] So you can read more about that online.

[00:44:01] But, Peyton, I'm not sure how I feel about the federal government getting involved in creating a university.

[00:44:06] What are your thoughts on that?

[00:44:08] You know, I'm exactly with you.

[00:44:11] I don't know how I feel about the federal government getting involved.

[00:44:14] I would lean more in the direction of not wanting them involved with a particular university.

[00:44:21] But anyway, we'll just have to see what happens moving forward with all this with the higher education.

[00:44:27] It's close to my heart.

[00:44:29] It's kind of early to tell.

[00:44:31] I know Trump's appointments.

[00:44:32] They're still finding out who might be in what position.

[00:44:36] And so I think that will also determine kind of the outcome of some of these things,

[00:44:40] which, you know, some of these could happen.

[00:44:42] Some of it could be speculation.

[00:44:44] But we're definitely moving in that direction.

[00:44:46] But that's why there's checks and balances.

[00:44:48] Yes, absolutely.

[00:44:49] So we can continue to pray that the next administration will be filled with wise people who can lead our country in a good direction.

[00:44:56] But don't go anywhere because we have a break.

[00:44:59] But when we come back, we'll be discussing how the mainstream media is actually experiencing some backlash, maybe a little bit overdue.

[00:45:07] We'll discuss that more when we come back after this.

[00:45:10] It almost seems like we live in a different world from many people in positions of authority.

[00:45:16] They say men can be women and women men.

[00:45:19] People are prosecuted differently or not at all, depending on their politics.

[00:45:24] Criminals are more valued and rewarded than law-abiding citizens.

[00:45:29] It's so overwhelming, so demoralizing.

[00:45:32] You feel like giving up.

[00:45:34] But we can't.

[00:45:35] We shouldn't.

[00:45:36] We must not.

[00:45:38] As Winston Churchill said to Britain in the darkest days of World War II,

[00:45:42] Never give in.

[00:45:43] Never give in.

[00:45:45] Never, never, never.

[00:45:46] Never yield to force.

[00:45:48] Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.

[00:45:52] And that's what we say to you today.

[00:45:55] This is not a time to give in, but to step up and join Point of View in providing clarity in the chaos.

[00:46:02] We can't do it alone, but together, with God's help, we will overcome the darkness.

[00:46:09] Invest in biblical clarity today at pointofview.net or call 1-800-347-5151.

[00:46:18] Pointofview.net and 800-347-5151.

[00:46:27] Point of View will continue after this.