Point of View November 12, 2024 – Hour 1 : The Millennial Round Table

[00:00:04] Across America, live, this is Point of View. And now your host for the Millennial Round Table, Chelsea Yeoman.

[00:00:25] Well, welcome to the Millennial Round Table today. I am your host, Chelsea Yeoman. I'm so grateful to be with you on this beautiful Tuesday afternoon.

[00:00:34] A week ago now, our world was much more unsettled than it is today. And certainly the last time we met as the Millennial Round Table, we have so much to talk about.

[00:00:44] But first, before we get into the political realm, we're going to start this first hour with news on culture and religion.

[00:00:51] And that's because Jonathan Teague is joining us today. We haven't heard from Jonathan in a while, but we're so grateful he's with us.

[00:00:58] He is the Senior Associate Pastor for Prestonwood Baptist Church. His role includes serving a Prestonwood preaching team, as well as providing leadership to the Prestonwood Network.

[00:01:08] Thank you so much for coming back and visiting us today, Jonathan.

[00:01:11] It's so good to be back with you guys, Chelsea.

[00:01:14] And I'm glad you're here. Our second panelist for this first hour is going to be Liberty McCarter. You know her well. She is no stranger to the show.

[00:01:21] She is a writer for Point of View, a tutor and the podcast host of the President of Know Why Podcast, I should say.

[00:01:30] She's the president of the podcast. So thank you for joining us today, Liberty.

[00:01:32] It's great to be here, Chelsea.

[00:01:34] Well, she'll also be with us second hour when Richard Lim will join us. So we're going to hit on a lot of politics, do a full deep dive and a little bit of an analysis on both the exit polling from the election results last week, which were very telling in a historic election, as well as analyzing Kamala Harris's campaign.

[00:01:53] What went right, what didn't. We're going to get into all of the weeds there.

[00:01:57] But before we jump into politics next hour, we're going to start with some news we have about technology coming out.

[00:02:04] You guys are all aware of the World Economic Forum, lots of speakers disclosing a lot of information on what really they're doing with our data and a lack of transparency on how much surveillance is actually happening on every front in the technology world, how inundated we are.

[00:02:20] We're also going to be talking about the transgender, transgender moralism.

[00:02:25] The title of this article is Transgender Moralism is Killing Democrats.

[00:02:29] We've seen a huge cultural shift there and, of course, want to hear about the biblical perspective on that issue.

[00:02:36] And then we're going to end with some abortion news.

[00:02:39] How did it play for the Democrats?

[00:02:42] You know, they put a lot of eggs in the abortion basket.

[00:02:44] We've been really inundated with 200 million dollars worth of abortion ads.

[00:02:47] And we're going to break down some of the news on that front.

[00:02:51] So let's get started.

[00:02:53] We have a busy show today.

[00:02:54] I'm going to start with this article that comes from the Christian Broadcasting Network, which is on pointofview.net, if you want to go join with us and read along with us.

[00:03:03] And the article breaks down for us that America has become, in the words of this expert, a surveillance prison.

[00:03:10] Our devices and our government are spying on us.

[00:03:13] And there is a book that has come out by Byron Tao.

[00:03:17] He's the author of a book called Means of Control.

[00:03:20] And he breaks down, I think for me, what is often such a mystery when it comes to technology.

[00:03:27] I know we have our phones.

[00:03:28] I know we have our laptops.

[00:03:29] I know I drive a car with some type of system that has a GPS in it.

[00:03:34] But when it comes down to where is all that data going and really what is the data that is being collected, it's a mystery for me.

[00:03:42] And this book breaks it down.

[00:03:44] It's a scary read, but it's an important one.

[00:03:46] You know, I always oscillate.

[00:03:48] I don't know if you all join me in this between is knowledge power or ignorance bliss.

[00:03:52] I can never decide.

[00:03:53] But when it comes to this one, I think knowledge is power.

[00:03:56] We need to know what data about ourselves we're giving over and to whom.

[00:04:02] And then what are they doing with it?

[00:04:03] So I'm going to start with you, Jonathan.

[00:04:06] Did you read this article?

[00:04:07] I'd love to get just your initial impressions from what you read on this book about means of control.

[00:04:13] Well, I mean, as a parent, first and foremost, I'm looking forward to heading to my bunker and never being on my phone again after I read this.

[00:04:22] I mean, honestly, Chelsea, it really does shed light on an ever increasingly growing challenge that we have as we try to disciple folks in our churches and really in a broader sense from the moral implications of how technology both is used and what is its prevailing utility for us now and in the future.

[00:04:41] And I really do think about this from the lens of, as a parent, you know, when we start putting devices in our kids' hands and, you know, at what age and what level of participation do we give them.

[00:04:52] And it's a lot more complex to navigate that issue than even five years ago, much less 10 or 20 or 30 years ago where we were debating, you know, how many landlines to have in the house or who gets a TV in their room.

[00:05:05] Now, your technology is no longer working for you, but we're almost to that precipice of that next iteration where it's working on your behalf.

[00:05:14] And the moral implications there are really profound because as we start to think about legislating that and governing that amongst ourselves just socially, but then at the governmental level as well.

[00:05:25] And I think this is interesting to sort of look through the lens of this to see, you know, in what ways have we, in a sense, forfeited over our digital footprints in the name of security, safety, and all those kinds of things.

[00:05:37] But when do those barriers of control get breached?

[00:05:40] I mean, we can all remember in this conversation, I think we're all pretty much the same age as good millennials here.

[00:05:45] We remember 9-11 and all of the ripple effects that came from that season where we were asking the government to step more and more into the security space more than ever before.

[00:05:55] This is almost like this is the grandchild of that movement now from a digital standpoint.

[00:06:00] So I think as Christians, we've got to be asking questions all the time.

[00:06:04] So am I in control of the technology or is the technology in control of me?

[00:06:09] And then what are the implications for all that for us morally?

[00:06:12] Well, you raise so many interesting points, Jonathan.

[00:06:15] You know, I never have thought of this issue as what you referred to as the child or grandchild of the intelligence community, you know, when NSA was really the inception of that.

[00:06:26] Because we went from physical intelligence gathering both internationally but now domestically to digital intelligence gathering, you know, and those parameters for me, I'm always going to put on my constitutional attorney hat, this idea,

[00:06:41] which this book and article discusses of illegal search and seizure.

[00:06:46] You know, when did we consent without a warrant to giving away the amount of intelligence that is being gathered on us?

[00:06:53] And why are we, the American people, the point of all of that, right?

[00:07:01] You know, when we think of the government and the intelligence agencies gathering that intelligence, it should be for the purpose of security.

[00:07:07] But this book really lays out liberty more than that, doesn't it?

[00:07:11] It talks about so many aspects from your health apps to your calendars to your email, which we all are aware of, to just basic searches for any type of product.

[00:07:24] All of that data goes to these private companies and entities, which is now ballooned into a trillion-dollar enterprise, hasn't it, Liberty?

[00:07:33] Yes, and I think one of the things that is most important for us to be aware of is how much data is collected through the apps on our phone.

[00:07:43] And there are so many convenient apps nowadays, but you really do have to be intentional with your settings, which the article gives some pointers, so people should check that out.

[00:07:53] But I think one of the biggest issues for the younger generations who have been raised as digital natives is actually getting them to care about the privacy issue, which maybe we can talk about more later on.

[00:08:05] But I think people really need to be educated in this generation to know why privacy matters and why this is such a problem that the government and so many private companies know so much about our lives.

[00:08:18] Good point.

[00:08:19] When we get back after our break in just a minute, we'll talk a little bit about that.

[00:08:23] You know, again, why does it matter?

[00:08:25] And beyond just the principles of, you know, constitutional privacy, which we can break down as well.

[00:08:32] I'm also going to bring in a little bit from the World Economic Forum.

[00:08:35] What are the top digital things that they've created we need to know about after this short break?

[00:08:58] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:02] Last week, six states voted on pot initiatives and more are certain to come in the next election.

[00:09:07] In previous commentaries, I've noted that the push for legalization of marijuana has come at a time when we know more about the dangers of

[00:09:14] cannabis than we knew a few decades ago.

[00:09:16] In a recent Breakpoint commentary, John Stonestreet concludes that the pot experiment has been a disaster.

[00:09:21] It has been a disaster for many reasons.

[00:09:24] The first reason is potency.

[00:09:26] Ann Coulter's recent column reminds us, it's not your father's pot anymore.

[00:09:30] When I was growing up in the San Francisco Bay Area, the kids around me were using marijuana that had 2 to 3 percent THC.

[00:09:37] Today, the marijuana sold in cannabis dispensaries have about 15 to 25 percent THC.

[00:09:43] The National Institute on Drug Abuse reports that about 30 percent of cannabis users will become addicted,

[00:09:49] especially if they start before age 18.

[00:09:52] Health and safety are another reason.

[00:09:54] Just look at the statistics from states that have participated in this rushed social experiment to legalize marijuana.

[00:10:00] Increases in car crashes along with property crimes and violent crimes followed legalization.

[00:10:05] In Colorado, the first state to legalize recreational marijuana, marijuana DUIs increased,

[00:10:11] and 40 percent of stone drivers were under the age of 18.

[00:10:15] A third reason is mental health.

[00:10:17] I received a lot of pushback the first time I did a radio program with a guest documenting the link between marijuana use and schizophrenia.

[00:10:24] That shouldn't be controversial now, since we have a new study from Denmark that found that 30 percent of schizophrenic cases could be linked to marijuana use.

[00:10:32] Each year, more states are legalizing marijuana, but just because cannabis is becoming legal doesn't mean it is a good policy for individuals or for society.

[00:10:41] I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my Point of View.

[00:10:46] For a free booklet on biblical reliability, go to viewpoints.info slash biblical reliability.

[00:10:53] Viewpoints.info slash biblical reliability.

[00:10:58] You're listening to Point of View, your listener supported source for truth.

[00:11:04] Welcome back to the Millennial Roundtable, where we are discussing this world that we live in involving data collection, data sale.

[00:11:13] It's now a trillion dollar industry.

[00:11:15] And I don't even think we're all quite aware of how much data is being collected on us,

[00:11:21] which a book recently published by Byron Tao, The Means of Control is the title of the book,

[00:11:27] talks about how data brokers make data from our phones, our computers.

[00:11:32] If you have any smart equipment in your home, like your Alexa, your TVs, even our cars, he said,

[00:11:38] they put GPS sensors in our tires now, that all of those are data points that are for sale to researchers, marketers, companies, and even the government.

[00:11:48] And so it is, in his words, very, very difficult to escape the kind of logging and surveillance that modern technology brings along with it.

[00:11:56] And Liberty, of course, you raise such an interesting point about the fact that we need to get people to care about the level of surveillance.

[00:12:05] You know, for me, I think of the illegal search and seizure protections we have in our Constitution and our law,

[00:12:10] where traditionally the government would have to go get a warrant to access any of that information.

[00:12:16] But now, you know, this article discusses what it looks like is an officer can just simply,

[00:12:21] those license plate screening machines, put in your license plate number and see where your car has tracked you,

[00:12:29] every data point, every place, every location you've been and when,

[00:12:32] without having to go through the constitutional exercise of going to a court of law,

[00:12:39] having a reasonable basis to have that data on you,

[00:12:44] having a judge rule that there was a good basis for giving a warrant,

[00:12:47] and then going and collecting it themselves.

[00:12:49] You know, those are really important parameters for us as a free people in a free country.

[00:12:54] But what I also want to talk about is the next generation of data collection,

[00:13:01] which this article alludes to, and feel free if you guys aren't aware of this,

[00:13:05] but I want to talk about it, is this idea of data and the human person

[00:13:09] and really connecting our physical bodies to technology.

[00:13:15] You know, they've got in the list of top new and recent types of technology and advancements that have come out,

[00:13:25] you've got things, it's really connected to this idea of transhumanism, this idea that,

[00:13:30] and I hear you, Jonathan, I'd love for you to dive in on this as well,

[00:13:35] this idea that humanity isn't enough, just us and our physical bodies on their own,

[00:13:41] but we have to advance the human body with technological advancement.

[00:13:45] So things like the Pentagon has put a lot of money into researching, you know,

[00:13:50] how to change DNA, for instance, and making people more intelligent.

[00:13:54] You know, one of these advancements that I have in this article is allowing the human system

[00:13:59] to connect to things that respond quicker than our own bodies would respond.

[00:14:04] So if you give, for instance, a soldier a mechanical arm or a robot arm that will respond quicker

[00:14:11] than his neural system would naturally respond,

[00:14:14] this idea that we need to advance the actual human beings into a technological advancement under transhumanism,

[00:14:23] this, in my mind, is all connected.

[00:14:25] What do you think, Jonathan?

[00:14:27] Well, yeah, it's fascinating, isn't it?

[00:14:31] And some of it, most of it for a long time was very hypothetical, right?

[00:14:36] So for all the millennial listeners out there, you know, coming up through, I mean, not to totally nerd out here,

[00:14:41] but, you know, coming through the Star Trek generation and the Star Wars generation,

[00:14:44] and so much of technology was always such in sort of that fantastical realm where that's really cool stuff,

[00:14:52] but we would never use it.

[00:14:53] And, you know, all of a sudden we're living in this paradigm shift, a massive paradigm shift,

[00:14:58] where we're on, I've heard a lot of futurists talk about we're on the next big precipice of the next big paradigm shift in technology,

[00:15:06] and it's going to be technological integration for sure.

[00:15:08] It's going to be whether it's in the military space, in the information gathering space, sales, medical,

[00:15:14] it's going to permeate every part of our culture.

[00:15:17] It's just going to be a matter of how long and how expensive will it be.

[00:15:20] And some folks say there's going to be a restrictor played on that.

[00:15:23] We won't go that far.

[00:15:24] That will become immoral versus amoral.

[00:15:26] And that's the real tipping point question for believers as you think about it through the lens of a biblical worldview, Chelsea,

[00:15:31] is, okay, at what point does this help us in reducing harm and increasing flourishing?

[00:15:36] That's a great series of questions to apply around the use of technology on a personal or societal level.

[00:15:43] Is it going to help us reduce harm?

[00:15:45] Is it going to increase flourishing?

[00:15:47] But those have moral implications even of themselves.

[00:15:49] And who is really the one that's legislating the answer to those questions?

[00:15:53] So whether it's in your home or whether we do it at a societal level, the government essentially already is playing in this space.

[00:16:00] I mean, that article does a really good job of articulating that.

[00:16:03] But clearly and broadly, our government is operating already in areas of reach technologically that are just – they're going to bring a lot of questions both –

[00:16:13] I mean, right now the current administration is going to have to answer some of those things.

[00:16:16] But in future administrations, as we're voting in the years to come, this is going to be one of the things we'll be voting about, at least the moral implications of it.

[00:16:24] How far do we go?

[00:16:25] Where do we stop?

[00:16:26] And who has their hand on that lever to ensure that we don't overindulge that?

[00:16:30] I mean, you're seeing it now in wearable tech.

[00:16:32] I mean, how many of us are wearing an iWatch today or glasses now that have integrative technology?

[00:16:37] Your phone, the new iPhone 16 is the first one to dive fully into the AI integration.

[00:16:42] Those are all the beginnings.

[00:16:43] So our youngest kids – and Liberty made a great point about this – the digital natives, that's going to be the real issue is getting them to stay separated or bifurcated almost between the technological and the physical.

[00:16:57] And this is like that – it's that real metaphysical question that we've always asked.

[00:17:01] Where do those lines blur and where are we okay with that?

[00:17:04] As Christians, we don't ever want to be idolatrous.

[00:17:07] That's the biggest implication.

[00:17:09] And technology can be one of those places that we can become very idolatrous because we can literally make it a new kind of man, a new kind of image bearing.

[00:17:16] And I think that's pretty dangerous.

[00:17:18] And I think as Christians, we've got to be more restrictive than prohibitive – or permissive, rather.

[00:17:24] Jonathan, you really, for me, hit home on the main point there, right there at that end when you talked about being made in the image of God.

[00:17:31] When I think of AI technology, even just at a high level as someone who's not very technologically savvy, when I think of the fact that we are paramount in creation –

[00:17:42] I mean, we are his first children, his firstborn, the Bible says, made in the image of God with divine purpose.

[00:17:49] He made us in completion, not to be added to, not to be changed.

[00:17:54] And I think, you know, the danger in not just technology – let's think through, you know, these idea of designer children using IVS to choose your child's eye color,

[00:18:04] to choose your child's gender.

[00:18:07] That is one form of it.

[00:18:09] But another form are things like – even we'll talk about this in the next hour – the transgender movement,

[00:18:13] where I, as a creation of God Almighty, who knit and formed me in every single cell about me and you together in our Father's womb,

[00:18:23] and knew the numbers of our days before the beginning of time.

[00:18:27] It says that we were allotted – our names were in the book of life – to say that we, as humans, are not enough as his creation,

[00:18:36] but have to change ourselves, whether that's through gender ideology and this idea of transitioning, body mutilating yourselves,

[00:18:44] or even in these smaller ways to me, which are things like there's this AI brain technology where they're decode.

[00:18:52] They can study the frequency and waves in your brain through wearable technology that's coming out in your AirPods.

[00:18:59] And this is from the World Economic Forum.

[00:19:01] They are talking about all of this.

[00:19:03] It's the technology to decode your simple thoughts, shapes, pin numbers to your bank accounts is on this list.

[00:19:11] This idea that there's not really an autonomy to us – and I mean autonomy in the correct sense, not bodily autonomy,

[00:19:17] which we talk about in the abortion context.

[00:19:18] We're not talking about that.

[00:19:19] We're talking about that there's no such thing as, in their view, the transhumanism.

[00:19:25] So it's all liberty, I would say, a replication of God's original creation to say we're going to take the human form,

[00:19:34] but we're going to increase its intelligence by – we're going to allow memory implantation through these chips that they can put in you

[00:19:41] that are permanent chips, by the way, into your brain.

[00:19:44] And for someone with Alzheimer's, you might think that's a great medical advancement,

[00:19:47] but when they start to do things, what they're saying is implanting memories.

[00:19:50] What they're doing is making what they're calling the next species of human,

[00:19:56] and this isn't something I'm making up.

[00:19:57] Go to the World Economic Forum and watch all their videos from Davos.

[00:20:00] This is what they're talking about.

[00:20:02] Even AI is a replication of intelligence.

[00:20:06] Yeah, and it really –

[00:20:08] It is.

[00:20:08] It's humans trying to play God, and we have to have a multiple-pronged approach to this issue as Christians.

[00:20:16] This is really where we use our reason, and we use the intelligence that God has given us,

[00:20:22] because we have to have that philosophical approach of recognizing that people have lost sight of who we are,

[00:20:29] like y'all said, as image bearers, and what it means to be human.

[00:20:33] If you think that the purpose of your existence is to just get as much out of the material world as possible,

[00:20:39] then why not combine humanity with technology?

[00:20:43] And then we need to be educated as well, not just on the philosophical and moral side,

[00:20:48] but about how the technology works, which is why I'm glad you're bringing this up, Chelsea,

[00:20:51] so that we can speak to it intelligently and be able to start drawing those lines of saying,

[00:20:58] hey, here's how we can use technology.

[00:21:00] It's not all evil, but these are some clear lines that we need to draw,

[00:21:04] and we must not cross as Christians.

[00:21:05] So this is important for us to be approaching it from multiple angles.

[00:21:10] It is, Liberty.

[00:21:11] I like your idea.

[00:21:12] We can talk a little bit about what those regulations will look like after this short break,

[00:21:16] and we're also going to talk about transgenderism and this idea of protecting the human image of God after this break.

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[00:23:10] And now, here again, Chelsea Yeoman.

[00:23:13] Welcome back to the Millennial Roundtable, where we are wrapping up our discussion on technological advancements.

[00:23:21] I think as millennials who are part of the technology generation,

[00:23:26] I really never in my life would have anticipated this idea of AI and the combinations that are happening at the highest levels,

[00:23:35] trying to experiment on humans and how to integrate technology into humans,

[00:23:40] wearable technology, wearable clothing.

[00:23:44] We've talked about all those devices.

[00:23:46] And so, Liberty, before we move on to our next topic,

[00:23:48] I want to give you the chance to just round out your thoughts on this idea of you said we need to make the case for why privacy matters

[00:23:56] and how to control this technology.

[00:23:58] Did you have any details on that you wanted to expand on?

[00:24:01] Well, I do want to acknowledge that it often feels like we are between a rock and a hard place as Christians.

[00:24:09] And I think this is going to be especially true for Christians who have grown up with technology being what it is,

[00:24:17] because, you know, oftentimes, like you if you want to market your business and we see more and more of this as our kind of the workplace evolves

[00:24:28] and people are online more, you have to be on social media.

[00:24:30] It's the way that so many people are doing things.

[00:24:33] And so many people in so many industries are also using AI now and they're using all of these kinds of technology.

[00:24:40] And so sometimes we read things like this and I think our reaction, even sometimes as millennials and older, is to say retreat, like I'm getting off of social media.

[00:24:50] I don't want anything to do with it.

[00:24:52] But then that's just not a realistic option either.

[00:24:55] And so it's not an all or nothing issue.

[00:24:57] And so I just, you know, I don't necessarily have all the answers,

[00:25:00] but I encourage Christians to educate themselves about this issue and talk about it with your children,

[00:25:07] because we don't want to be Luddites where we just retreat from technology 100 percent.

[00:25:12] And if there is, you know, advancements and discoveries being made, then Christians should be, you know, leading that with ethical guidance, too.

[00:25:22] So we need to be involved.

[00:25:23] But again, we have to bring our biblical worldview to that conversation to say here is when it's going too far.

[00:25:30] And here is when we've lost sight of what it means to be humans created in the image of God and the purpose that we're created for.

[00:25:36] And so to just kind of embrace that tension of there's no easy answers with this.

[00:25:41] But if we raise the next generation to approach it like that, then I think we can be optimistic that they will be able to make wise decisions in the future.

[00:25:50] Yes, Liberty, well said.

[00:25:52] And to add to that, it's more than even just our corporate edge and the involvement of technology in that.

[00:25:57] It's also national security.

[00:26:00] As a matter of national security, there's this technological arms race is how I've heard it referred to,

[00:26:05] where China is already working on and has changing the DNA of soldiers, adapting soldiers to this technology advancement,

[00:26:16] making them stronger, smarter, faster, quicker response times through integrating technology into the human person.

[00:26:23] And, you know, for me, it raises alarm bells of how far are we willing to go?

[00:26:30] Should we make those regulations at the federal level and at the national level to say we're going to draw some hard lines in the sand here ethically and say that,

[00:26:39] you know, we we are not experiments as human beings, you know.

[00:26:45] And, Jonathan, I wondered if you had any final thoughts on this topic before we move on.

[00:26:51] Well, yeah, I mean, I wholeheartedly agree with what Liberty is saying.

[00:26:55] And I think it is one of those things where it just from a moral lens, it is interesting.

[00:27:01] You know, nations like China, and I'm certain, but I would speculate others that bend towards that socialistic or Marxist worldview.

[00:27:10] You know, when you remove the morality of something, it's just it makes it a lot easier to get there.

[00:27:15] And so when you can when you get overindulged in the utility of technology to meet a societal or governmental end,

[00:27:23] then, you know, that opens that door to all kinds of things and manipulations in the human experience that we as Christians would say, hey, that's too far.

[00:27:30] That's too much.

[00:27:31] And so I think when we see the ever increasing biblical illiteracy within our culture,

[00:27:37] it shouldn't surprise us in other parts of the world where that's even more devalued that in its place,

[00:27:43] the transhumanism ethic, which is a really, really broad brush.

[00:27:47] And, you know, it's standing ready to fill that gap.

[00:27:49] And I think it's just a great reminder for us as Christians.

[00:27:52] We've got to stay biblically literate.

[00:27:54] We've got to be teaching our kids and our families, teaching in our churches, availing ourselves to Christian thinkers and ethicists that are really, really aware and in this space.

[00:28:03] I'm with Liberty.

[00:28:04] I don't have all the answers on this.

[00:28:05] But, you know, it's almost kind of those things you know when you see it, when an overindulgence in technology on a personal level isn't healthy.

[00:28:12] And I just think, yeah, we've got to continue to advocate as Christians and keep our voices loud within our government at every level to say, hey, let's not go too far,

[00:28:20] which I know is easier said than done, but it's almost kind of those things where we've got to start somewhere as a society

[00:28:25] and be prepared to take that moral stand and just keep the fight going.

[00:28:30] Right.

[00:28:30] And we as consumers have a powerful voice.

[00:28:33] You know, we can say no to some of this technology, say we're not going to go there.

[00:28:37] We're not going to purchase surveillance in every single room of our house where we're connected to Wi-Fi and there's cameras in every room of the house.

[00:28:44] We can turn off.

[00:28:45] I turn off all my geolocation services, turn off AI on your phone if you're inclined, facial recognition.

[00:28:51] Even things like with TSA going to the airport, I don't let them take a photo of my face.

[00:28:56] I am, you know, in my mind, I don't need a mugshot to get on a plane.

[00:29:00] So I think there's ways for us as consumers to feel empowered and to say they, you know, we don't need to be intimidated by the direction the world is headed.

[00:29:09] But we can say no, we're not going to have that in our home and we're not going to be connected in our clothing and in our ears to devices that can screen our brain waves and, you know, report all this back to some health data or group that's going to sell all my health data.

[00:29:25] You know, those are consumer decisions at the end of the day.

[00:29:28] But certainly there will be cases.

[00:29:29] I can tell you that right now.

[00:29:31] I do want to turn now to really a broader discussion in addition to, you know, transhumanism as a movement.

[00:29:40] One component of transhumanism is transgenderedism, which is we've talked about again on this show that this idea that God did not make us enough as human beings.

[00:29:51] We have to define for ourselves, even to the point of our biology, who we are, you know, the self-actualization as an idol in society.

[00:30:00] And beginning even nine years ago when Obergefell, which is the case that decided on same-sex marriage, was decided.

[00:30:06] I think that's when this movement really, the transgender movement, capitalized on that same-sex marriage movement.

[00:30:14] The LGBT, the T really took over at that point.

[00:30:17] You know, once same-sex marriage was decided and this love wins mantra was successful as a movement, you know, the transgenderism movement has ridden those successful coattails culturally.

[00:30:29] But I think we're starting to see, guys, that it swung too far.

[00:30:34] And, you know, as believers, there's no such thing as, you know, that being a biblical worldview.

[00:30:41] We know we're created in God's image and that it is good.

[00:30:43] We are created enough in his image to need him and not to change ourselves for biblical reasons, which, Jonathan, I'd love for you to expound on.

[00:30:50] But what we're starting to see more broadly and culturally is a rejection of that, the T in the LGBT movement, because Democrats pushed really hard in their campaigns on that issue.

[00:31:01] But when it comes to transitioning minors, when it comes to hormones, I think that mainstream Americans view that as mutilation.

[00:31:11] And they're starting to get really out of touch with how far our culture is willing to go on that and consent on that, aren't they, Jonathan?

[00:31:20] Yeah, I mean, the good news is irrationality and moral insanity does have a line that most people aren't willing to cross.

[00:31:27] And that, you know, really, that echoes.

[00:31:31] By the way, thanks for all these softball topics too, Chelsea.

[00:31:33] This is Liberty and I.

[00:31:35] These are great, great conversations.

[00:31:37] And they are, you know, really, they're challenging.

[00:31:41] No, we do.

[00:31:42] And that's the thing.

[00:31:43] I think, you know, I say that jokingly, but at the same time, you know, there was a season here, and we've all, you know, in our times in past roundtables together, we've talked about this, where, you know, that goalpost was moving, it felt like, in the culture.

[00:31:57] And people were just accepting it.

[00:31:58] They were just tolerating it.

[00:32:00] And so when I was reading this article you shared with us, I actually watched that exchange on TV the other night between those two gentlemen.

[00:32:06] And it was so fascinating because you had one viewpoint where it was just a straightforward, you know, girls don't want to play sports with boys who are trying to be girls.

[00:32:16] And the gentleman across from him just would not concede that there's any other worldview but that if you think that you are that gender, that's what you are.

[00:32:27] And his moral offense was so pronounced that the conversation just broke down.

[00:32:33] And I thought, for me, it was a living metaphor of what's happening in the culture where I think the goalpost is coming back enough for most people who say that's just immoral and it's irrational for us to entertain that.

[00:32:47] And less to the degree of, you know, even in the libertarian space where it's like, look, you're an adult, you want to do this thing.

[00:32:53] But when we get into the space, like you said, Chelsea, when we start talking about what it's doing to children and parental rights and bodily autonomy and all of these things that are manufactured way outside the biblical worldview, you know, I mean, the idea of male and female creation and God's divine orders as image bearers according to Genesis 2,

[00:33:10] and the ideas of God's immutable law that he talks about in Romans 1 and countless other places in the Scripture.

[00:33:16] You know, this is not an open debate for Christians.

[00:33:20] And I feel like more pastors, more believers are stepping into this space, not in a hateful way, but just in a very clear way.

[00:33:27] We're going to draw these lines that the Scripture draws for us, and we're not, we're going to say it lovingly, but we're not going to apologize for it.

[00:33:34] Yeah, what a more loving message to give.

[00:33:37] More from Liberty on this topic when we get back after this break.

[00:33:55] Listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:34:01] Welcome back to the Millennial Roundtable.

[00:34:04] We are discussing really so many things this hour.

[00:34:07] Jonathan, as you mentioned, just some heavy-hitting topics that we as believers have got to lean into.

[00:34:13] And one of those is this almost cultural swing that I think we've all seen and experienced over the last 10 years from, you know,

[00:34:21] the LGBT movement being condensed into, like, one identified movement, the Love Wins movement, widely accepted.

[00:34:28] You know, if you spoke or whispered about your biblical views on that, you could be fired,

[00:34:33] which I represented people who were fired through First Liberty Institute.

[00:34:37] We saw this giant backlash and cancel culture against biblical views on not just marriage, but the human person.

[00:34:44] And then we're starting to see it come back around when you look at the election results.

[00:34:48] And we've got an article on pointofview.net that discusses even among themselves, you know,

[00:34:53] I think the Democrats who adhere to these movements and these ideals on the other side of the biblical foundations for this issue are starting to find their limits.

[00:35:04] And some of that, Liberty, I want to talk to you about as a millennial mother.

[00:35:08] You know, we've got our kids in schools or homeschool or, in our case, a Christian school with our biblical worldview being espoused.

[00:35:16] I know, Jonathan, you adhere to that way as well, but that the public schools have been inundated with these ideas of transgenderism.

[00:35:24] You've got drag queen story hour.

[00:35:26] You've got things like teachers transitioning kids without telling parents, without parental consent, and then telling them after the fact, socially transitioning.

[00:35:36] You've got, you know, pornographic materials in school library.

[00:35:40] I mean, across all fronts, it feels like, as a Christian woman, a war against my children and things I have to protect them from and think about now that we did not have to think of when we were growing up.

[00:35:52] And I'm thinking it's run its course almost as a movement.

[00:35:56] You know, they're finding these outer bounds where millennial voters, women voters voted for President Trump, many because of this parental rights issue and saying you've gone too far.

[00:36:07] And I want to just get your hot take on that, Liberty.

[00:36:09] Yeah, I think becoming a parent is definitely a wake up call for a lot of people.

[00:36:14] And I think that somebody, Professor George Yancey, he's a sociologist and I believe he's been on Point of View before in the past.

[00:36:22] But he wrote something really insightful about kind of some of the failings of Democrats in this past election cycle.

[00:36:29] And they did promote a lot of these very far left progressive ideas as their core campaign issues.

[00:36:37] And he said, you know, these are more of the type of issues that in a college dorm room when young adults are engaging in thought experiments and they're debating like these are those kinds of discussions.

[00:36:49] You know, should kids be able to medically transition from one gender to the other?

[00:36:53] But in reality, these are not the issues that people care about.

[00:36:57] And so I think that a lot of people in our generation are kind of having that dose of reality, especially when it comes to our kids and when it gets into the school.

[00:37:08] And if a lot of people are still doubting whether or not this is actually being pushed in schools, you know, because maybe it's not every single school district.

[00:37:16] But I was just talking with a mom the other day in our homeschool group who had moved to Texas recently from another state, a more liberal state.

[00:37:24] And their kids were in public school and they were running into gender ideology, this progressive gender ideology that was being introduced in the classroom and kindergarten.

[00:37:34] And she said, yeah, that was really happening.

[00:37:36] And I was shocked that it was really happening.

[00:37:39] But we were like, OK, we've got to do something different.

[00:37:42] So I think parents are seeing that.

[00:37:45] I think the more that this has gone on and they've pushed this, we've also started to just see some results, including progressives themselves who are now blowing the whistle on like, hey, here's kind of what I saw whenever I was, for instance, working in a gender transition clinic for minors and the harmful effects that it had on minors.

[00:38:06] Or we see how it's being pushed in kids sports teams at school.

[00:38:10] And so parents are starting to see the ramifications of what was maybe a little bit more of just an ideological thought experiment before.

[00:38:16] And now we're seeing, hey, this is really harmful.

[00:38:18] It's impacting my kids.

[00:38:20] It isn't relevant to anything that's actually going on in my life in terms of my needs for my family.

[00:38:26] And so, no, I'm not going to vote for this.

[00:38:28] You know, what you're saying, too, though, also at a broader perspective, it's really insightful for how deep these ideologies run on the other side.

[00:38:41] You know, we as believers, the Bible is a basis for our worldview.

[00:38:45] And for nonbelievers, they will replace their moral compass, their ideology, what's ethical to them with a worldly version of that.

[00:38:57] And I think even in the face of being anti-science, anti-truth, the parameters on this issue specifically is it doesn't really matter.

[00:39:06] They have this faithful adherence to this idea of we define ourselves, that self is God.

[00:39:12] And that's where, Jonathan, I'd just love to get your biblical analysis on this.

[00:39:16] I know you used to work, I believe, in student ministry there at Prestonwood.

[00:39:20] This is an issue that I think, you know, percentage-wise, we've got 30 and 40 percent of high school students saying they're somewhere on the bisexual spectrum.

[00:39:30] So this isn't something that we can just be completely away from.

[00:39:34] Our children have been inundated with this ideology.

[00:39:37] And just from a loving biblical perspective, just give us your pastoral, you know, advice on all of this.

[00:39:47] Yeah, I mean, you know, I can remember the student ministry days where we were collecting cell phones before they got on the bus.

[00:39:53] I mean, it's just, you know, how fast technology moves.

[00:39:56] And it kind of brings this hours in many ways sort of full circle implication for us.

[00:40:01] And I think what Liberty said is so true.

[00:40:03] And you take, for instance, you know, you take the education space just as an easy example.

[00:40:07] I think one of the things that I'm hoping for in the coming days here in Texas and nationally as well, frankly,

[00:40:12] is that we'll continue to democratize the ability for families to choose their education options and create more accessibility for that,

[00:40:19] to give families and communities an opportunity to work through that at the local level.

[00:40:25] And I'll just say this.

[00:40:26] A pastor friend of mine said this the other day, Chelsea, and I thought this was really true.

[00:40:29] We're just thinking in broad strokes here about engagement for us as believers.

[00:40:33] You know, there was a lot of fervor in this election for the presidential especially, which there should be,

[00:40:37] a lot of prayer, a lot of participation, which is great.

[00:40:39] But, you know, they really ought to be that way for us all the time.

[00:40:42] And it's a great reminder of the importance of families and communities and churches get involved at the school board level

[00:40:49] and in the community level and in the local level and bring these concerns up in an appropriate but clear way

[00:40:56] because, you know, we can make differences here.

[00:40:59] We really can.

[00:41:00] And when it comes to what's happening to our kids and how they're being impacted

[00:41:04] and what they're being influenced by, I just – I think it's worth the investment

[00:41:08] and the sacrifice there to help not only provide communities the opportunity and families the opportunity to move forward,

[00:41:13] but also to keep the issue as a front burner because I think if we can really permeate it there,

[00:41:20] it pays such a wonderful long-term dividend down the road because when you start thinking about what these post-COVID kids

[00:41:27] are coming into college now, so the kids that graduated high school a couple years ago,

[00:41:31] what they're dealing with, the literacy issues, the moral issues, the ethical implications for all of this,

[00:41:36] I think the earlier that we can start and the clearer we can be with our kids and with our families,

[00:41:41] I think the better off the community is and the better off the culture is.

[00:41:45] Well said.

[00:41:46] Well said.

[00:41:47] Liberty, any final thoughts on this before we close out for break?

[00:41:52] I think it just – we need to be very clear when we were talking about this issue, as you said,

[00:41:57] to do so lovingly because there are people really struggling with gender dysphoria

[00:42:01] or maybe getting swept up in this ideology, but what it boils down to is accepting who God made you to be

[00:42:07] and loving yourself because God made you on purpose.

[00:42:11] And when you truly do love yourself the way that God loves you,

[00:42:15] then you don't feel like you have to change in order to be happy.

[00:42:19] Yeah, accepting who he's created you to be because he says that you are good.

[00:42:23] What a beautiful message, Liberty.

[00:42:25] And Jonathan, thank you so much for being with us on this first hour.

[00:42:28] Liberty is going to be continuing on with us.

[00:42:30] But, Jonathan, go ahead and tell our listeners where they can follow you and support your work.

[00:42:37] Yeah, great to be with you as always, ladies.

[00:42:39] I'm on Twitter and some other places,

[00:42:41] and our biggest promotion is just for what God's doing through the life of our Prestonwood Network

[00:42:46] and our Prestonwood Pregnancy Center advocating for moms and for the unborn and families

[00:42:51] and just all the support that the listeners can give to those spaces

[00:42:54] and helping us make a difference in cities across America is what we're all about.

[00:43:00] Thank you, Jonathan, for being with us.

[00:43:02] Don't go anywhere.

[00:43:03] Richard Lim joins us next hour after this short break.

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