Point of View November 1, 2024 – Hour 1 : Weekend Edition

[00:00:04] Across America, live, this is Point of View. And now, Dr. Merrill Matthews.

[00:00:20] And welcome to Point of View. I'm Merrill Matthews sitting in for Kirby Anderson today and we have an election coming up in just a few days.

[00:00:28] We'll be talking a good bit about what's happening in the election. Joining me here in studio, Liberty McCarter.

[00:00:34] She is with Point of View and she's the head of the Know Why podcast. She does that. Liberty, thank you for joining us.

[00:00:41] I'm excited for our conversation today.

[00:00:43] And Danielle Runyon, she is with First Liberty Institute covering military issues.

[00:00:47] You've been here before, had been a little while, but we're glad to have you back. Thank you for joining us.

[00:00:51] Thank you for having me.

[00:00:52] Okay, well, let's get into it. We've talked, we're talking about elections here at the first part of it because so much is happening on the elections with new polls out.

[00:01:02] Early voting has been high and doing well out there. People are getting out and voting.

[00:01:07] And we want to talk a bit about the Christian vote. We've talked about this the last couple of Fridays on the weekend edition.

[00:01:15] I know Kelly Shockford was here from First Liberty Institute was here with me and Kirby last week.

[00:01:20] And we were talking about the importance of Christians getting out and voting in the in the elections.

[00:01:27] It is an important issue. We've got some issues up. We've got some of these links up on point of view at point of view dot net.

[00:01:34] But I'll highlight one here out of the group of people of 51 of Christian of people who claim to be Christians.

[00:01:41] Fifty one percent are likely to vote. Forty nine percent are not likely to vote.

[00:01:46] There are about two hundred and twelve million adults who fit the this is, quote, person of faith category.

[00:01:54] If forty nine percent of them do not vote, that would represent one hundred and four million non voters.

[00:02:02] Continuing with this issue, if family or friends were able to convince the non voting person of faith that voting is too important not to participate,

[00:02:11] about 14 percent of the non voters said they would turn out.

[00:02:14] Additionally, George Barna projects that five million additional Christians would likely vote if their pastors simply encourage them to do so.

[00:02:25] And within the Christian faith group, forty one million born again Christians are expected to not vote in this election out of the self identified groups.

[00:02:35] Christians who regularly attend churches. Thirty two million are unlikely to vote, including 14 million who regularly attend evangelical church.

[00:02:46] This is interesting. It's we've mentioned it here several times that if the evangelicals, if Christians and evangelicals were to get out and vote, it would vastly change the way the election went.

[00:02:57] I think that what is one of the most striking things about this for me is just the impact that people say it would have on their decision to vote or not.

[00:03:09] If somebody in their life, a family member or a friend really talk to them about it.

[00:03:14] And so I think leading up to Election Day, this is an encouragement for us to go out there and talk to your like minded friends.

[00:03:22] Tell them what's at stake. Encourage them to also vote in the local and the state elections as well, which are extremely important.

[00:03:29] And just an encouragement that we need to be vocal about this, because look at, you know, how many people are saying that that would actually affect their decision whether or not they're going to vote.

[00:03:39] And we can have that kind of influence.

[00:03:41] You know, Danielle, you're with First Liberty Institute, and there are a lot of pastors out there who say, I just I can't talk anything about politics or the election, because if I were to do that, I might be running afoul of the tax law.

[00:03:55] I might get in trouble. But that's not really the case.

[00:03:58] It's not really the case. And I'll tell you that even my own pastor, you know, we can present things from a biblical point of view and not take a side on the issues and just say, you know, strictly from let's just look at abortion.

[00:04:10] Right. What do we as Christians believe on the abortion issue? What does the Bible say about that?

[00:04:15] And then encourage people, pastors can encourage people to take a look at what's being put out there in society and to say, look, there's truths and there's non-truths.

[00:04:22] And we encourage Christians to really be discerning and to to really look and take a hard look at what is being told to you.

[00:04:30] And let's just talk about the abortion issue for a minute.

[00:04:32] The truth is, is that, yes, Roe versus Wade was overturned.

[00:04:36] What did it do? It turned the issue back to the state.

[00:04:38] Mm hmm. So people are making this an issue about the election when, in fact, it's already been decided.

[00:04:43] And you need to be encouraging your state representatives to do whatever it is that you believe is appropriate with respect to the abortion issue, not the president of the United States.

[00:04:53] You know, Liberty, some churches are, I'm going to say aggressive.

[00:04:57] That may not be the right term, but I know our church will have some people set up with a table and they'll register, help people to register to vote if they haven't registered.

[00:05:05] Because we have people going to churches, evangelicals and other Christians who just simply have not registered.

[00:05:10] So some get engaged in that.

[00:05:12] Some churches even do voters guides that try to say, here are some things that you could consider in a nonpartisan way of some of the issues that we as a church support.

[00:05:22] Absolutely. And I think that we just need to remember that right now the American public is not really getting educated on civic issues very well.

[00:05:33] And so you can I know Kirby's highlighted statistics on these about how few Americans could actually pass the naturalization test if they were to become a citizen.

[00:05:42] I think that some years ago.

[00:05:43] Yes. So I think that a lot of people, though, they actually want to be educated and informed.

[00:05:49] And there are so many confusing issues in our culture and they want to be equipped to think about them biblically.

[00:05:56] So they would be happy for guidance from their churches.

[00:05:59] Danielle was saying in a nonpartisan manner to just say, hey, here are the issues from a biblical perspective.

[00:06:04] And again, we're not pushing one candidate or another, but we are going to equip you to think about the issues biblically.

[00:06:12] We're going to help you be educated on how to be involved civically.

[00:06:17] Here's how you register to vote.

[00:06:18] We'll help you do that.

[00:06:19] I think that people are actually hungry for that kind of guidance.

[00:06:23] But maybe pastors or churches are sometimes scared to offer that, even though constitutionally they have a right to do so, which I know Danielle can speak to more.

[00:06:31] But I think it's something Americans would want.

[00:06:33] You know, Danielle, the white church, the churches that typically are made up of white folk have sort of stayed away a bit from the issue of being involved in politics.

[00:06:43] But the black church has been involved in politics for decades.

[00:06:47] I mean, it's something that's important to them.

[00:06:50] You know, and that's how all churches should be approaching this issue, right?

[00:06:54] It's our civic duty to go and vote.

[00:06:56] I will tell you that First Liberty, we've put out a, for instance, Trump-Harris record comparison.

[00:07:03] And at First Liberty, we also have an obligation to remain nonpartisan.

[00:07:07] But what we're doing is exactly what churches can do, which is look at the you can look at the candidates from the perspective of the issues.

[00:07:14] And what are we looking at?

[00:07:15] The issues that Christians should be focused on is judges, court packing, religious freedom, life, free speech, family issues, the military and Israel.

[00:07:25] And we have those resources available that delineate exactly what President Trump is looking at and what his record has been on those issues and what Kamala Harris's record has been on those issues.

[00:07:37] And First Liberty specifically is focused on the court packing issue, the Supreme coup aspect.

[00:07:43] And you've got material available on your website for that.

[00:07:45] Yes.

[00:07:46] And it's very important for people to understand.

[00:07:47] And I will tell you that folks at First Liberty who have just been out and about talking to people about the election, when people say, you know, I'm just going to sit out this time, when they were told about what can happen with our Supreme Court, their eyes opened and said, oh, my gosh, I had no idea that that was a possibility.

[00:08:02] If we pack our Supreme Court, that's going to take away potentially our Constitution, our First Amendment freedoms, all of our freedoms, because what we're doing is we're politicizing the court to make sure that one party's views overtake the other parties.

[00:08:15] And really, what are we having? There's no point to have the Supreme Court then.

[00:08:19] Right. Right. And you don't even have to have a constitutional amendment to pack the Supreme Court.

[00:08:22] I think so we've got information of this on our Web site at point of view.

[00:08:27] I'd also encourage you if you want to talk about your if you're a Christian, you want to talk about the vote, what you're thinking about doing.

[00:08:32] Give us a call. One eight hundred three five one one two one two.

[00:08:36] We'd love to hear from you.

[00:08:37] Your thoughts on the vote coming up on Tuesday.

[00:08:40] Stay with us. We'll be back on point of view.

[00:08:58] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:01] You know, for centuries, marriage was defined as one man and one woman.

[00:09:05] But various states and then the Supreme Court in its controversial five four decision ruled that every state must recognize same sex marriage.

[00:09:12] That was not the end of the debate.

[00:09:13] The House of Representatives recently passed the deceptively named Respect for Marriage Act to codify the Supreme Court decision.

[00:09:20] Now, there are many good reasons to reject the concept of same sex marriage,

[00:09:23] which I recount in our point of view booklet on a biblical point of view on same sex marriage.

[00:09:28] Many of those arguments were cited before the 2015 Supreme Court decision and are now coming to fruition.

[00:09:34] But we don't have to guess how the redefinition of marriage will affect religious liberty.

[00:09:38] We've seen it play out in the courts.

[00:09:40] Nevertheless, a greater percentage of Americans now support same sex marriage.

[00:09:44] When Gallup first began tracking the support for same sex marriage in 1996, a quarter of Americans backed legalization.

[00:09:51] The most recent poll found that seven in ten believe that same sex marriage should be recognized by law as valid.

[00:09:57] This significant shift illustrates three important points.

[00:10:00] First, activists presented same sex marriage as marriage equality, as illustrated by the bumper sticker that merely had an equal sign.

[00:10:07] Second, Americans tend to take their cues from what is legal.

[00:10:10] And third, most pastors need to explain the importance of a biblical definition of marriage.

[00:10:15] One group of Americans that still does oppose legalized same sex marriage are weekly churchgoers.

[00:10:21] In fact, approval for same sex marriage in this group has fallen a few percentage points over the last few years.

[00:10:27] By contrast, Americans who seldom or never attend church are much more likely to support same sex marriage.

[00:10:33] That is why pastors must remind their congregation of what the Bible says about marriage and why it is still important in the 21st century.

[00:10:40] I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:46] For a free booklet on a biblical view on big data, go to viewpoints.info slash data.

[00:10:53] That's viewpoints.info slash data.

[00:10:58] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:11:03] And welcome back to Point of View.

[00:11:05] Joining me in studio, Liberty McCarter and Daniel Runyon.

[00:11:08] And we're talking right now about the importance of the vote, the election coming up, and especially Christians being energized and willing to go out and express their voice at the polling booth.

[00:11:19] And, Daniel, if Christians don't vote, that could end up coming back to haunt them in areas like religious liberty and other things.

[00:11:27] Yes.

[00:11:28] What we see at First Liberty, you know, we're first in the fight, as we say, to defend religious liberty for all Americans.

[00:11:34] And if we don't have a candidate who's going to support religious liberty, what do we see at First Liberty?

[00:11:39] We see an uptick in cases.

[00:11:42] And what an uphill battle it is.

[00:11:43] And I can just provide you with a couple examples that we've had since 2021.

[00:11:48] The first was, and probably one that most people heard about, was our Navy SEALs case, where we represented over 4,300 service members who had religious objections to the COVID-19 vaccine.

[00:11:59] And what we saw was that there's this great process on paper for religious accommodations in the military across the board.

[00:12:06] But what in practice was happening was a rubber stamping denial process of just trying to purge religious service members from every branch, not just the Navy.

[00:12:15] And that case was a battle for, I mean, we settled that case only a few months ago in July is when it was over.

[00:12:24] That was three years.

[00:12:25] And there were a lot of people who didn't even make it to the class certification stage, which meant that they were kicked out of the military.

[00:12:30] And now we have to see what's going to happen with a new administration.

[00:12:34] Who's going to be in?

[00:12:35] Because really, it's going to be the Trump administration based on a track record of preserving religious liberty in the military and in all of the executive branches.

[00:12:44] And if Kamala Harris wins, well, we already saw what happened in that litigation and what the executive branch's stance was with respect to religious service members.

[00:12:55] So those individuals might not have a chance to even serve again or to have their records corrected, which is the relief that we got in the Navy SEALs case for the people who were able to be part of the class.

[00:13:05] The other issue that we saw was what we were talking about a moment ago with respect to abortion and the overturning of Roe versus Wade.

[00:13:13] What did the Biden administration immediately do?

[00:13:15] They went into bypassing Congress mode, which was, for instance, with respect to the Department of Veterans Affairs,

[00:13:22] they implemented a final rule, an interim final rule initially saying, OK, well, now we're going to have abortion services be available to veterans and their beneficiaries in an unprecedented move.

[00:13:33] That was never allowed at the VA ever.

[00:13:36] And we had to file a case on behalf of a religious, well, former service member, but then VA nurse who said, you know,

[00:13:45] not only am I religiously opposed to abortion, but in Texas, I can be held criminally and civilly liable for what this administration is requiring me to do.

[00:13:56] And what was the outcome of that case?

[00:13:58] We were able to get religious accommodations, a process across the board for for all VA health care providers.

[00:14:05] But these are the things that people have to go through.

[00:14:07] And it's not a quick fix.

[00:14:08] It takes many years.

[00:14:10] And a lot of times people will lose their jobs.

[00:14:12] And that's what we saw repeatedly with the Biden administration.

[00:14:15] People, religious individuals being placed out of work, not having any means of employment.

[00:14:21] And if you if you are discharged from the military with a dishonorable discharge, good luck getting a job in the civilian sector.

[00:14:27] Right.

[00:14:27] So this has significant.

[00:14:29] These measures that were taken already have had significant impact, negative impact on religious Americans.

[00:14:35] And people need to understand that there's probably more of that to come if they don't get out and vote on the specific issues.

[00:14:41] In the waning days of the Obama administration, the head of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights released a paper where he said people are using their issue of faith as a way to discriminate against LGBT people.

[00:14:57] And so he said we at the commission, we're going to look at look into this and we're going to try to stop people using this.

[00:15:03] They're really just using their religion as a as a crutch to try to be able because they really just want to discriminate.

[00:15:10] They're just using their religion as a crutch.

[00:15:12] And I thought, oh, geez.

[00:15:14] But that was at the end of the Obama administration.

[00:15:17] Donald Trump came in.

[00:15:18] Trump came in and it sort of took that off the stage then.

[00:15:21] I think that what Danielle highlights is just, you know, how important it is that our leaders respect their constitutional rights to begin with,

[00:15:30] because I'm so thankful First Liberty exists.

[00:15:32] And point of view listeners hear from First Liberty a lot.

[00:15:35] And I think we take some measure of comfort in the fact that First Liberty is there.

[00:15:38] But it would be great if you didn't have to fight some of these battles to begin with, is what I'm hearing,

[00:15:43] if we had people who were actually respecting the Constitution that's already there and not violating religious liberty to begin with.

[00:15:51] And so that's definitely something to keep in mind when people go to the polls.

[00:15:55] Well, it is in a sense with a democratic administration.

[00:15:58] It's sort of like job security at First Liberty because you have so many issues coming up.

[00:16:04] Pushed down by the administration, oftentimes bypassing Congress, because even if we disagree with some of the things Congress might pass,

[00:16:12] once it passes Congress, it does at least takes a vote of the representatives of the people to do that.

[00:16:18] And because they can't get things through, they've just simply Biden's picked up on Obama's.

[00:16:24] I've got a pen and a phone and I'm going to go ahead and do things anyway.

[00:16:27] That's right.

[00:16:28] And that's the other reason, too.

[00:16:29] You know, this isn't just about.

[00:16:33] Understandably, politics have become quite polarizing recently,

[00:16:36] and I think that's what turns most people off and most Christians off and it turns them away from the polls.

[00:16:41] But, you know, this isn't just about voting for the next president.

[00:16:45] I mean, there's two pages of the front and back.

[00:16:48] So I call it two pages of the election ballot.

[00:16:50] And when you fill it out, you're going to have to vote for not only your the next president,

[00:16:55] but your your state representatives, your representatives in Congress, your representatives in the House.

[00:16:59] And those people, I mean, the president is only going to be able to do what he as much as he can do with a supporting Congress.

[00:17:08] So the Senate and the House.

[00:17:09] And so that needs to be taken into consideration as well.

[00:17:11] And what we're seeing here in Texas, I believe it's still pretty close for Senator Cruz and and his opponent on the other side.

[00:17:19] And, you know, what happens if we get the president that we think is going to support our religious liberty rights,

[00:17:24] but then we don't have the congressional support to advance that.

[00:17:27] So really, it needs to be thought of not in the mainstream media sense of what is being thrown in front of us.

[00:17:35] It's shows like this that hopefully are going to educate people to understand the importance of their vote

[00:17:39] and just taking a half an hour out of their day to go do that.

[00:17:42] You mentioned that some Christians get turned off and we've got a much coarser political process than we used to have.

[00:17:51] And people using names and other things that historically we would have thought that's just not that's just not part of the political discourse.

[00:17:57] But it is now.

[00:18:00] What's your what's your comment?

[00:18:03] What's your advice to people who say I don't like either one of those characters?

[00:18:08] I mean, I may support some of their policies, but I just don't like them as individuals because of how crude they can be at times.

[00:18:15] Well, you have to you can't just not take a stance because somebody is going to be taking the White House.

[00:18:22] Somebody is going to be filling up those seats in the Senate and the House.

[00:18:26] So to say that we're not going to take part in it.

[00:18:28] I mean, again, that goes back to what's our biblical duty?

[00:18:31] Our biblical duty is to go.

[00:18:32] Our civic duty is to go out and vote.

[00:18:34] And that's why, again, shows like this, we're highlighting the issues that are at stake here.

[00:18:40] And if we don't vote, I mean, there is a significant risk that our religious liberty rights will, you know, for all of the work, the good work that First Liberty has done to get, you know, the Kennedy case.

[00:18:50] We have greater religious liberty rights than we have in the past 50 years because we won that case.

[00:18:55] But how are we going to be able to do our jobs even if we're packing the court and we have essentially then nowhere to go?

[00:19:01] Because in my view, the judiciary is what is holding this country together and our Constitution together at this point.

[00:19:06] And they want to change that, or at least the Democrats do.

[00:19:09] Let's take a call from Peggy in Texas.

[00:19:11] Peggy, you're on the air.

[00:19:13] Yes.

[00:19:13] I haven't heard very much about this business with the North Koreans getting on the border of Ukraine.

[00:19:22] They've got over 8,000 troops on the border ready to fight with Russia against Ukraine.

[00:19:29] This is just bordering on World War III if Camilla and her horde get in there.

[00:19:37] We have to have Donald Trump.

[00:19:39] We are in a heap of trouble.

[00:19:41] We didn't have any of this stuff going on when he was president because they knew he meant business.

[00:19:48] And we, I'm telling you, I had a son that was in the Marine Corps during Desert Charm.

[00:19:58] I had a grandson fighting in the same damn war.

[00:20:04] In a wars, you know, in a one war is nuts.

[00:20:10] If you're going to send our young men in to die, the least you can do is fight to win.

[00:20:15] Yes, that's right.

[00:20:17] And Donald Trump is the only thing.

[00:20:20] He's our salvation, and he has got to win this.

[00:20:23] And it's in God's hands, I know.

[00:20:26] He doesn't give me the playbook.

[00:20:28] But...

[00:20:29] Okay, thank you.

[00:20:31] Thank you, Peggy.

[00:20:32] Well, she highlights a point of Christians and the issue of war.

[00:20:37] And you are one of the military affairs persons for First Liberty.

[00:20:41] Yes, I'm also a service member, proudly so, as a reservist.

[00:20:47] So, yeah, this is something, you know, we need a strong and sensible and knowledgeable commander-in-chief

[00:20:52] and somebody as a commander-in-chief who's able to place for each of the service branches

[00:20:57] the appropriate secretaries who can make appropriate decisions.

[00:21:01] We also need, again, I'm just going to go back to Congress, congressional folks who understand what it means.

[00:21:08] If we're going to go to war, it's going to probably be a long haul.

[00:21:11] And what does that mean not only from a fiscal standpoint, but the military service members who are serving,

[00:21:17] are we using them to their highest and best use?

[00:21:19] Are these adequate reasons to be going to war?

[00:21:22] The military is on the ballot in this in many ways.

[00:21:25] Stay with us. We'll be back on Point of View.

[00:21:30] The Bible tells us not to worry.

[00:21:34] And yet, there is a lot of worrying stuff in our world today.

[00:21:39] Thankfully, the Bible doesn't stop at telling us not to worry.

[00:21:43] God gives us a next step.

[00:21:46] He says we need to pray.

[00:21:48] But sometimes, even knowing what to pray can be difficult.

[00:21:52] And that is why Point of View has relaunched our Pray for America movement,

[00:21:58] a series of weekly emails to guide you in prayer for our nation.

[00:22:03] Each week, you'll receive a brief update about a current issue affecting Americans,

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[00:22:13] We'll also include a short free resource for you in each email so you can learn more about the issue at hand.

[00:22:21] Will you commit to Pray for America?

[00:22:25] Go to pointofview.net.

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[00:22:37] Click on the Pray for America banner.

[00:22:40] Let's pray together for God to make a difference in America.

[00:22:47] Point of View will continue after this.

[00:22:57] You are listening to Point of View.

[00:23:02] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station.

[00:23:10] And now, here again, Dr. Merrill Matthews.

[00:23:13] And welcome back to Point of View.

[00:23:15] Joining me in studio, Liberty McCarter, who is the head of the Know Why podcast, has that.

[00:23:21] And then Danielle Runyon with First Liberty Institute.

[00:23:25] And we're talking about the, with the election coming up, we're talking about the role of Christians,

[00:23:28] Christians voting, what's going to happen on Tuesday, and that type of thing.

[00:23:33] And we've got Tom in Florida who has a comment about Exodus and our leaders.

[00:23:39] Tom, you're on the air.

[00:23:42] Well, we're supposed to live by every word of God.

[00:23:45] Exodus 18.21.

[00:24:00] Good question.

[00:24:01] Who'd like to take that one?

[00:24:03] Well, I think that it's important to definitely apply biblical principles to the situations that we find ourselves in,

[00:24:12] because we know that God's truth is eternal.

[00:24:14] And so it is always relevant.

[00:24:17] It's also important to read scriptures in context.

[00:24:19] And so there are different genres in the Bible.

[00:24:22] And we find history, which has, you know, records of God's people throughout time and these specific rules that he gave them throughout certain parts of history.

[00:24:32] And so I think that we have to discern between what is prescriptive for us and then what is a principle that we should live by.

[00:24:43] And so prioritizing godly leadership and standards for rulers is certainly important.

[00:24:49] But again, we've also seen multiple patterns in the Bible where God raised rulers up who were far from perfect and still use them.

[00:24:59] So I think what it really comes down to for Christians individually, it's between you and the Lord and your conscience.

[00:25:06] And keep the advice in mind that Danielle has mentioned in terms of specific issues that Christians are supposed to care about and advocate for.

[00:25:14] But ultimately, it's a decision that you have to make between, you know, your conscience with God and very prayerfully.

[00:25:21] And know that we live in an imperfect world, but we try to advocate for godly principles and love our neighbors the best we can, including through voting.

[00:25:29] You know, Danielle, we have a history of people running, men running for president who have claimed to be Christians.

[00:25:38] I think just about every one of them have claimed to be a Christian, members of churches and so forth.

[00:25:42] But it was interesting because, of course, with John F. Kennedy, he was the first Catholic elected.

[00:25:48] That was an issue.

[00:25:49] I remember that issue.

[00:25:51] Jimmy Carter came as the first, you know, self-professing evangelical.

[00:25:56] And I was in seminary at the time, and I know a lot of seminarians who voted for Jimmy Carter because he said, I am an evangelical.

[00:26:03] Some of them came up and regretted it later.

[00:26:06] But Barack Obama claimed to be a Christian and went to Jeremiah Wright's church.

[00:26:10] You look at what happened in some of those churches, some of the pastors' sermons, you think,

[00:26:15] oh, that sounds a little different than what I'm used to.

[00:26:20] George Bush claimed to be a Christian, and I think you could make a fairly strong case.

[00:26:24] They typically come out with a book that talks about the faith of the president as they're running for election.

[00:26:30] So it's interesting.

[00:26:32] Now, Kamala Harris has got the Evangelicals for Harris website.

[00:26:37] I wrote a piece in For the Hill about that a couple of weeks ago about how evangelicals are stepping up.

[00:26:42] And the reason they say we are, Kamala Harris says, I am an evangelical.

[00:26:47] I said, I'm a Christian, and one of the reasons I am a Christian is because of my concern about other people.

[00:26:54] And she used the Good Samaritan issue.

[00:26:56] And I pointed out on the Hill, the Good Samaritan takes his own money and pays for this person, puts his own time and efforts in this.

[00:27:04] He doesn't go out and tax a bunch of other people to do that.

[00:27:07] So we've got this history of leaders, political leaders who say they are Christians, and yet sometimes don't necessarily follow that.

[00:27:16] It makes it harder for those of us who are evangelicals to say, am I really voting for this person because this person is a Christian?

[00:27:24] And that's why it's very important to look at the track record of what these individuals do.

[00:27:31] Good point.

[00:27:32] People can profess to be many things.

[00:27:35] I mean, let's just look at Christianity.

[00:27:36] And often do.

[00:27:37] And often do.

[00:27:38] Yes.

[00:27:39] But let's just look at Christianity.

[00:27:41] There's a number of, I mean, you have your Methodists, you have your Lutherans, you have your evangelical Christians.

[00:27:48] And so many people can profess to be part of something broad, but really, individually, it means something different.

[00:27:54] And not everybody is scripturally aligned.

[00:27:57] I would say that in today's society, I would say that very much like how people don't understand the Constitution of the United States, they also don't understand the Bible and the Scripture.

[00:28:10] And don't know what that means to be aligned with that.

[00:28:13] And I think that's why when you hear people even talk about our Constitution and how it's getting lost, I mean, kids in school don't even understand or probably have never even read the Constitution.

[00:28:22] We now have handwriting that's being eliminated from schools.

[00:28:25] Some people theorize that perhaps so that people can't read the Constitution at some point.

[00:28:29] Now, of course, we have it in digitally transcribed.

[00:28:33] But audio book.

[00:28:34] Audio book.

[00:28:35] Audio book.

[00:28:36] Go listen to a podcast on the Constitution.

[00:28:39] But what we're getting away from is what were the founding principles of this nation?

[00:28:45] And I can say that most people, I mean, we've seen people who are being confirmed as judges who are sitting, and I can't remember off the top of my head the one whose name is escaping me, but not understanding what the articles of the Constitution stand for.

[00:28:58] And you're going to sit there and be a part of the judiciary.

[00:28:59] So I look at people when they profess to be a Christian and question, one, do you even know what that means?

[00:29:07] And two, I will say that what they are probably meaning by that is based on their track record and based on the Harris Biden track record.

[00:29:15] I have difficulty understanding that statement that she made.

[00:29:19] You know, Liberty, we used to have year, decades, I'll say centuries ago, the divine right of kings.

[00:29:25] We still have some kings out there, but under the divine right of kings theory, it was that God has put this person in charge as the king, and therefore you should obey that person.

[00:29:36] But that would sometimes conflict with what Christian principles were and the biblical teaching.

[00:29:42] And yet we don't here in the States, we don't have that divine right of kings.

[00:29:46] We get to make a choice.

[00:29:47] Right.

[00:29:48] We do.

[00:29:48] And this is actually something that was covered on the No Way podcast a while back.

[00:29:51] We talked about that tension that Christians often feel between knowing that God is sovereign and he's in control and yet knowing that we also have a responsibility to act.

[00:30:01] It is a tension, isn't it?

[00:30:02] And it is because we and I think that just to go to a point of an earlier caller and I thank her sons for her service in the military.

[00:30:10] But we must remember that even in an election season where so much is at stake, God is our salvation.

[00:30:17] And so we can trust him and we can rely on him and not be afraid no matter what happens, because ultimately he is sovereign.

[00:30:25] Now, that doesn't erase our responsibility to still act because we don't know his mind.

[00:30:30] We don't know what the future holds.

[00:30:32] He does.

[00:30:32] So we have a responsibility to love our neighbor and act in the moment.

[00:30:35] So, again, I know a lot of people will quote Romans 13 and talk about how, you know, we have to be respectful of our leaders, which absolutely the Bible says to pray for our leaders no matter who they are.

[00:30:47] But we also, again, have to look at the context in which we live and also in which the Bible was written.

[00:30:53] And so we live in a context where our leaders have set up a system where we have a say.

[00:30:59] In reality, the American people are the decision makers according to a constitutional system.

[00:31:06] So it is not just our privilege, but our right if we want to uphold the Constitution, if we want to keep the republic like Benjamin Franklin mentioned all those years ago.

[00:31:17] It is our duty to be involved and to have a say and to respectfully push back against leaders whenever we think that they are not doing the right thing.

[00:31:27] And voting is one way to do that.

[00:31:28] And, Danielle, First Liberty's whole reason for existence is pushing the back against leaders who you think are going in the wrong direction.

[00:31:36] Yes.

[00:31:37] I mean, when we see people's religious liberty rights being infringed upon in ways that, I mean, I really, frankly, four years ago would have never imagined that we would be where we are today on some of those issues.

[00:31:49] Oh, yes, yes.

[00:31:49] When I first heard, and again, this is back when we were living not in Texas, I went to a public school back to school night.

[00:31:59] And this was my daughter was going into kindergarten.

[00:32:02] And I had first heard about single sex bathrooms.

[00:32:08] And I just thought to myself, that's so crazy.

[00:32:10] That's not ever going to be a thing.

[00:32:12] Right.

[00:32:12] And that's what we typically as whether you're conservative, Christian, you hear these things and you think that this is never going to be a thing.

[00:32:19] But what has happened is that these these theories have taken hold.

[00:32:23] And I feel like I will say be the first one to say it.

[00:32:26] I hold myself personally responsible for not being proactive about making sure that that narrative did not did not take hold.

[00:32:34] And then here we are.

[00:32:35] I mean, I think COVID kind of got in the way of us being able to do that because we were all pushed into our homes and not allowed to come out, not allowed to speak, not allowed to do a lot of things.

[00:32:43] And then after COVID, it just seemed like there was this wave of I was looking at kids who I saw just a year and a half prior who, you know, little girls, little boys doing little girl and little boy things.

[00:32:53] And then suddenly they're coming out.

[00:32:54] And I was like, that child looks a little bit different to me.

[00:32:57] And suddenly, what was it?

[00:32:58] The LGBTQ idea, the ideology that was taking hold.

[00:33:02] And then here we are today.

[00:33:05] Just amazing.

[00:33:06] It's amazing.

[00:33:13] And the election coming up and what your thoughts are about the Christian's role in that.

[00:33:17] 1-800-351-1212.

[00:33:20] When we come back, we've been talking about candidates.

[00:33:23] We're going to also have to talk about some of the issues on the ballot because there are other issues there, not just candidates, but other things that you can be voting on across the country.

[00:33:33] A lot of different issues dealing with abortion, election integrity and other things.

[00:33:37] Stay with us.

[00:33:38] We'll be back on Point of View.

[00:33:40] A false abortion narrative lives in our presidential politics.

[00:33:58] The narrative is that state restrictions on abortion, passed since the Dobbs decision in 2022, are placing women in serious danger.

[00:34:06] Supposedly, hospitals fearing they'll run afoul of state law are refusing to treat women for miscarriages or abortion complications.

[00:34:13] Abortion advocates, including our vice president, blamed the Supreme Court for the death of Amber Thurman, age 28, following a medication abortion.

[00:34:21] She was nine weeks pregnant with twins.

[00:34:24] Medication abortions accounted for 63% of all abortions in 2023.

[00:34:28] The sustained growth in the use of the abortion pill since it was approved in 2000 is due in large part to the FDA's progressive easing of restrictions on its use.

[00:34:38] Many medical experts contend the FDA did not adequately study its safety.

[00:34:42] The FDA approved the two-drug regimen to be used during the first seven weeks of pregnancy and in 2016 extended the requirement to 10 weeks gestation and allowed non-physicians to prescribe the drugs.

[00:34:54] In 2021, the Biden administration eliminated the requirement that women seeking a medical abortion be evaluated in person by a medical professional.

[00:35:03] A Wall Street Journal editorial states the obvious.

[00:35:06] Thurman's death affirms what anti-abortion activists have argued, that the two-pill abortion regimen is far more dangerous than its advocates claim.

[00:35:14] Since Georgia's abortion law bans abortions after six weeks gestation, Amber Thurman made an appointment at a North Carolina clinic for a surgical abortion.

[00:35:23] She arrived too late for the appointment.

[00:35:25] Rather than reschedule the surgical abortion, Amber opted to begin a medical abortion.

[00:35:29] She took the first pill and drove back to Georgia.

[00:35:32] At home, days later, she vomited and passed out.

[00:35:35] She was taken to a Stockbridge, Georgia hospital.

[00:35:37] The babies had no heartbeat.

[00:35:39] Standard treatment involves an antibiotic and a DNC, but it was hours before Amber received either.

[00:35:44] She died of sepsis.

[00:35:46] No court decision or law prevented her timely treatment.

[00:35:49] For Point of View, I'm Penna Dexter.

[00:35:54] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:36:00] 1-800-351-1212.

[00:36:03] If you'd like to give us a call and express your opinion about the election, votes, Christianity, and what we should be doing.

[00:36:09] And let's go to Judith in Georgia.

[00:36:11] Judith, you're on the air.

[00:36:13] Hello.

[00:36:14] Good afternoon, sir.

[00:36:15] Good afternoon.

[00:36:16] Good afternoon.

[00:36:17] I wanted to just briefly state that I do not believe either of these candidates.

[00:36:23] I'm a black woman.

[00:36:25] I do not believe that either of these candidates are Christians.

[00:36:28] I do not believe that either of them have any intention of behaving like Christians.

[00:36:33] When so many Christians are not even sure if they're Christians and the way we are behaving.

[00:36:39] I think we're living in a time where the church has kind of picked up the world and somewhat duplicating the world and sort of the other way around.

[00:36:48] But I do not believe for one moment that Mr. Trump or Mrs. Harris are Christians.

[00:36:55] And what troubles me is that, from what I have seen and heard, is that Mr. Trump has been saying he uses the Bible.

[00:37:04] And he says these, you know, they asked him at one point years ago when he ran, what is your favorite, is there a favorite chapter, is there a favorite verse that you have?

[00:37:13] And then they said, well, are you a New Testament kind of guy or Old Testament kind of guy?

[00:37:19] And his response was, I really don't want to get into that.

[00:37:23] You know, but if I wanted to talk about it, I would say I'm more of a New Testament kind of guy.

[00:37:27] To me, that's frivolous talk on both sides, the person interviewing him and his response.

[00:37:33] So I am not – go ahead.

[00:37:35] Go ahead.

[00:37:35] I was just going to say, Judith, you know there is a Trump-approved Bible out these days.

[00:37:39] I saw the news article the other day.

[00:37:41] And it is a Trump-approved Bible with I think he has the Constitution and a few other things in that copy of the Bible.

[00:37:51] But hold on.

[00:37:51] Let's just get a response to that.

[00:37:53] And, you know, Danielle, Trump has said recently that the attempted assassination that came very, very close to him sort of gave him –

[00:38:06] I think he sort of says he sees a purpose in him from God because he did not – wasn't assassinated, he wasn't killed in that.

[00:38:15] But it's a long ways from actually making a Christian profession.

[00:38:19] Yes.

[00:38:20] And, you know, I know I sound extremely redundant because I keep saying let's look at the issues.

[00:38:24] But really, firstliberty.org and we put out election comparison information.

[00:38:30] You know, the track record that Trump has is he had a religious liberty task force.

[00:38:36] He was very, very intent in the last administration that he served in.

[00:38:41] And to – Jeff Sessions put out – it was a 2017 document for all executive agencies of the executive branch to focus on religious liberty

[00:38:51] and how religious liberty should be a part of and honored and respected across all agencies.

[00:38:57] The work that he did while, you know, I understand those types of perspectives about him as a person.

[00:39:04] I understand the perspectives about Kamala Harris as a person.

[00:39:07] But, again, we have to look at the track record of what these people are doing to respect the rights of religious Americans in our society

[00:39:13] and to make sure that our constitutional freedoms, particularly under the First Amendment, are upheld.

[00:39:18] And, you know, the – it's interesting because this – what we call the new – what's called the New Apostolic Reformation,

[00:39:25] a new movement that has come out, sort of sees – the head of that says,

[00:39:30] I don't think Trump is a Christian, but I think he's like Cyrus in the Old Testament.

[00:39:34] God used Cyrus to come in and free the Jews and let him go back to Israel.

[00:39:39] And so he argues that Trump is being used in some ways the same way to allow Christians to be able to continue with their faith,

[00:39:49] even if the person doing that is not necessarily a follower.

[00:39:52] That's right.

[00:39:53] And so the last thing that I would say on the point is as Christians and as Christians who, you know,

[00:39:59] those who are committed to following Scripture, we are to show grace to others.

[00:40:05] We are to forgive others.

[00:40:08] And I think that we just have to know that from what Trump has done in the past,

[00:40:14] I have faith and also what he's been campaigning on with respect to religious Americans.

[00:40:19] I'm going to take that as true.

[00:40:21] I believe it in my heart to be true.

[00:40:23] And I know that with the state of our country right now and the dire straits that we're in,

[00:40:28] if we don't preserve and restore and protect religious liberty now,

[00:40:33] it perhaps may be lost forever in another four years.

[00:40:35] Well, thank you, Judith, for that call.

[00:40:37] It raises that important question about what do you do if neither one of the leaders

[00:40:42] or the presidential candidates appear to be what we would call a practicing or evangelical Christian.

[00:40:48] Even though Harris does have evangelicals for Harris out there.

[00:40:52] So it's not just people who are on the ballot, though.

[00:40:54] We also mentioned this.

[00:40:55] We want to talk about some of the ballot measures out there.

[00:40:58] And I'm taking this from Ballotpedia.

[00:41:00] There is a link to that on the Point of View website, pointofview.net.

[00:41:03] And you can go click onto that link and you will see a listing of a number of ballots along with the states they're in

[00:41:09] because many of these ballot issues are very, very important in how they affect us in those various states.

[00:41:15] For instance, on November 5, 2024, voters will decide on 11 abortion-related ballot measures,

[00:41:22] the most on record for a single year, and 10 would provide for state constitutional rights to abortion.

[00:41:29] And we just, Liberty, we just heard Penna Dexter, for those who were listening online,

[00:41:34] her commentary about abortion.

[00:41:36] Abortion is still a major issue in this campaign.

[00:41:39] It is, and I'm so thankful that Penna addressed this issue in her Viewpoints commentary,

[00:41:45] which you can find at pointofview.net if you didn't get a chance to hear it yet.

[00:41:49] But even though Roe v. Wade has been overturned, which is a good constitutional victory,

[00:41:55] the battle is definitely not over.

[00:41:58] And what is so insidious to me is how the pro-abortion movement is using fear

[00:42:05] to motivate folks to make abortion legal or even a part of state constitutions in multiple different states.

[00:42:14] So just for everybody's information, there is no law anywhere in the United States

[00:42:19] that would prevent a medical professional from saving a woman's life in the event of a miscarriage.

[00:42:25] There is no, you can look this up if you really care to know the evidence

[00:42:31] and just read past fear-mongering headlines.

[00:42:33] But there is no dichotomy kind of movie-style situation

[00:42:37] where the husband is going to have to choose between, you know, saving one or the other.

[00:42:43] That's just not happening.

[00:42:45] Doctors always have a right and a responsibility to try to save both lives.

[00:42:52] And if one life is lost tragically due to natural causes,

[00:42:55] that is not the same as intentionally aborting an unborn baby.

[00:43:00] But a lot of people are hearing these stories in the media about women who die because of infections,

[00:43:06] because of an incomplete miscarriage, because of not going to the emergency room in time out of fear,

[00:43:13] or what I consider malpractice, doctors saying,

[00:43:16] oh, no, because of the politics, we're not going to give you the treatment that you need.

[00:43:20] They're hearing these stories, which are tragic,

[00:43:24] and then they are thinking, oh, no, this is what's going to happen if we don't vote to protect abortion.

[00:43:29] That's just not true.

[00:43:30] Women are not dying because of abortion bans.

[00:43:33] They are dying because of misinformation.

[00:43:35] And so this is definitely look up, look at Ballotpedia, look at pointofview.net.

[00:43:41] You can find election guides and sample ballots there to see if this issue is on your ballot.

[00:43:46] And, again, for those state and local elections,

[00:43:50] I was looking up some for my local area to see, okay, what are the different candidates supporting?

[00:43:56] And there are candidates that are saying making the right to abortion is one of their main priorities.

[00:44:01] And so this is where you can have a tangible impact in the area where you live

[00:44:05] by supporting candidates who are pro-life and who are not giving in to this fear.

[00:44:10] Here in Texas, we haven't been inundated with some of the campaign ads that they have in the swing states.

[00:44:16] But two of the ads that we see frequently come from Colin Allred about how he is supporting the right to abortion and so forth

[00:44:23] and how he criticizes Senator Ted Cruz, who he's running against,

[00:44:28] for supporting the Dobbs decision and other things of that nature.

[00:44:32] So that's in so many of those ads.

[00:44:36] That's just a highlight here we're seeing in Texas.

[00:44:39] Yes.

[00:44:40] Yeah, yes.

[00:44:40] And from what I've seen, one of the ads, I believe one of Colin Allred's ads is a medical provider

[00:44:46] who is saying, you know, I would never vote for Ted Cruz, right?

[00:44:50] So what does that signal to people in that literally five seconds of what she says?

[00:44:55] People are seeing the visual image of a medical provider, and it's scaring them, thinking,

[00:44:59] oh, my gosh, if that person wouldn't vote for Ted Cruz, you know, that's going to impact me personally

[00:45:04] because clearly there's a problem from a medical perspective, and I need to be aware of it.

[00:45:09] When we come back, we'll look at some more valid issues on Point of View.

[00:45:11] We're in a different world from many people in positions of authority.

[00:45:15] They say men can be women and women men.

[00:45:19] People are prosecuted differently or not at all, depending on their politics.

[00:45:24] Criminals are more valued and rewarded than law-abiding citizens.

[00:45:29] It's so overwhelming, so demoralizing.

[00:45:32] You feel like giving up.

[00:45:34] But we can't.

[00:45:35] We shouldn't.

[00:45:36] We must not.

[00:45:37] But as Winston Churchill said to Britain in the darkest days of World War II,

[00:45:42] never give in.

[00:45:43] Never give in.

[00:45:44] Never, never, never.

[00:45:46] Never yield to force.

[00:45:48] Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.

[00:45:52] And that's what we say to you today.

[00:45:54] This is not a time to give in, but to step up and join Point of View in providing clarity in the chaos.

[00:46:02] We can't do it alone, but together, with God's help, we will overcome the darkness.

[00:46:09] Invest in biblical clarity today at pointofview.net or call 1-800-347-5151.

[00:46:18] Pointofview.net and 800-347-5151.

[00:46:27] Point of View will continue after this.