Point of View May 28, 2026 – Hour 1 : Your Finances God’s Way

[00:00:04] Across America, Live, this is Point of View, Kirby Anderson. We're going to spend some time talking about your finances and looking at how to manage those from a biblical point of view. We're going to be talking about saving and spending and giving and even the issue of debt.

[00:00:33] It's all part of a new book, Your Finances Gods Way, A Biblical Guide to Making the Best Use of Your Money. It is written by Scott LaPierre and I just mentioned that he's also written previous books on Your Marriage Gods Way and this one of course Your Finances Gods Way. There are workbooks to go with both of those books and we're going to spend some time digging into this in more detail. He is the teaching pastor of the Woodland Christian Church in Woodland, Washington.

[00:01:00] He is an author, conference speaker, holds a master's degree in biblical studies from Liberty University and joins us now by phone. So Scott, welcome to Point of View. Thanks, glad to be here Kirby. I might just mention the endorsement on the front is from our good friend Michael Ferris, President and CEO of Alliance Defending Freedom back in the past and of course also known for his work with the Homeschool Legal Defense Fund. Let's, if we can, maybe tell your story because in some respects it is your story that since you've been married,

[00:01:30] you have supported your family on a single salary, you've had a real desire to be debt free, and you want to apply these biblical principles of which there are many to your own life. So in some respects you not only give us some admonition about what to do, you give us your own personal experiences.

[00:01:51] Yes, there is a lot of personal stories in there from my family and from other people that I've spoken with and people that I've pastored or spoken to at conferences or counseled. And so again, what we're going to do is maybe kind of dip into it. We're going to do 16 different chapters as well as about 220 plus pages of material. Lots of scripture verses, lots of information that you can go through individually.

[00:02:16] But again, if you would want to maybe teach on this to a biblical group, maybe a small group or life group or Sunday school class or something like that, that would be the case. So Scott, let's get into this because one of the most important principles is the issue of stewardship.

[00:02:35] And it seems to me that we from the very beginning need to understand what that means because your goal in the book is to really kind of set forth some biblical principles about stewardship and then follow up with application. In the book of Romans, the book of Galatians, the book of Ephesians, you have the first couple of chapters that give you the theology and then the application. But this very important first chapter is about stewardship and faithfulness. What do we need to know?

[00:03:05] Right. Yeah, that's a great point, Kurt. And I really think that can be a paradigm shift for people because we live in a world that teaches us our stuff is our stuff. It belongs to us. But a biblical view of possessions, which is really to say a biblical view of stewardship, forces us to recognize that we don't really own anything, that we're essentially managers or stewards of all of our, not just possessions, but even our time, our relationships.

[00:03:30] And so when we see that what we think belongs to us actually belongs to God, we're more inclined to use it in a way that glorifies him. And if you think just about giving, in a sense, when you give money away, you've never really given any of your money away. You've only given away what belonged to God in the first place. And so it can make generosity or giving even easier.

[00:03:54] It can encourage us to view whether possessions or relationships in a godly manner or in a way that's going to please the Lord because we recognize that my children, we have 10 children, that they don't really belong to me. They're God's children that he's blessed me with, and I'm responsible for them. Or my marriage, my wife isn't really my wife. She's a daughter of the king, and I have a responsibility to treat her as such.

[00:04:19] And so that view of stewardship, it affects everything in our lives when we see that we're expected to use what we have for God's glory and for his kingdom. I might just mention, too, Deuteronomy 10 talks about the fact that the heavens and all belong to the Lord. And you have in Psalm 50 that the field is mine. Of course, the very famous passage in Psalm 24, the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof. And even in Haggai, the silver is mine, the gold is mine. There are certainly very strong principles that we can see in that regard.

[00:04:49] And, of course, that is the starting point, which brings us to the next point, and that is what you call God's kindness and severity. When I first read that, because I read this actually in a manuscript before it became a book, I thought, okay, I get the kindness part. And then I realized where you were going, and that is the master's kindness to the faithful stewards and the master's severity to the unfaithful steward.

[00:05:12] And so, in some respects, we have to recognize that even some of the parables that Jesus gave us, which are, of course, teaching spiritual principles, certainly could apply as well to how we hand our finances. Yeah, that's a great point, Kirby. And what I say about that is if I get a little momentum into this point, if people went to church one day and they heard the pastor preaching on prayer or love or forgiveness,

[00:05:40] they expect that because they see those as being spiritual topics. But if they come in and the pastor is going to talk about finances, they tend to think, well, this seems more physical or earthly versus spiritual or eternal or heavenly. But really, we determine or we should determine spirituality or what is spiritual by the frequency something's discussed in God's Word. And so, whether we think something's spiritual or not, if it comes up frequently in God's Word, then that by nature makes it spiritual.

[00:06:10] And so, with that being the case, you can easily argue that few things are more spiritual than finances because few things are discussed as frequently in Scripture as finances. Jesus' parable talked about finances more than almost anything else. You quickly shared a number of verses that discuss God's ownership of everything, including finances. And so, if we recognize that finances are spiritual, then few things say as much about us as our use of finances.

[00:06:40] There's kind of that saying that if you want to know people, then look at their calendar and their checkbook because you get to see how they spend their two most valuable resources, their time and their money. And so, in the parable of talents, we see that actually finances or talents, which was a form of money in the ancient world, that is given to these stewards. And they're judged by their faithfulness.

[00:07:05] And I think we become so familiar with passages or especially parables that we miss some of the significance. But if we get an elevated view of that parable, it's really kind of shocking the goodness that's shown to the faithful stewards and then the severity that's shown to that unfaithful steward. And so, we know the gospel were not justified by works. We're justified or declared righteous by grace through faith.

[00:07:32] And so, the faithful stewards weren't saved because they were faithful and the unfaithful steward wasn't condemned because he was unfaithful. Instead, their faithfulness and unfaithfulness was evidence of them being saved and unsaved. But if you think about the goodness for the faithful stewards, I mean, with their talents, they had been faithful over little is what the Master said. Yet still, they were rewarded and blessed with eternity with the Lord.

[00:07:58] And the unfaithful steward, he had been unfaithful with little. He had only been given one. But he buried it. And then he ends up suffering eternity in hell. And so, that's what I mean by that. It's so important what we do with what God has given us because it's generally evidence or reflection of our relationship or even lack of relationship with him. Good. Let's take a break.

[00:08:20] And again, he's saying we're not saved by works, but we certainly need to look at that idea of faithfulness, which is certainly the next chapter, which we'll talk about after the break. And if you've just joined us talking about the book, Your Finance is God's Way, A Biblical Guide to Making the Best Use of Your Money, published by our good friends at Harvest House. And there's information about it on our website. And we'll be right back.

[00:08:58] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson. A recent poll of Americans conducted by NewsGuard and YouGov is disturbing on its face. It's even more concerning the deeper you delve into the data. The top-line comment is that a sizable number of Democrats and a small number of Republicans believe the assassination attempts on President Trump were fake.

[00:09:21] The pollsters found that a third of Democrats said the White House correspondent's dinner was staged, and more than four in ten said the shooting in Butler, Pennsylvania was staged. A much smaller percentage of Republicans said the dinner was staged, and just seven percent said the Butler shooting was staged. The Democratic percentages are huge. And one of the reasons Democratic Senator John Fetterman shamed his party by saying that assassinations plus political violence are real. My party can't be the tinfoil hat brigade.

[00:09:49] He even added, I was there a table away, and I promise you, this was not staged. The fact that Americans in either party make these statements illustrate how much a significant number don't believe what they read and see. Instead, they buy into any conspiracy that might be floated on social media. At Butler, the president was shot, two men were killed, if you count the shooter, and two others were seriously wounded. This isn't just believing in a conspiracy. This is political fantasy. But it gets worse.

[00:10:17] The poll questions gave respondents the option of saying they were not sure. If we add these together, a majority of Americans say the dinner was staged or unsure, and a majority of Americans say the Butler incident is staged or unsure. This majority lives in a fantasy world, and that unfortunately most of them will vote in November. We should be very concerned. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:47] Go deeper on topics like you just heard by visiting pointofview.net. That's pointofview.net. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Back once again as we talk about finances, the book Your Finance is God's Way, published by Harvest House, written by Scott LaPierre, who's with us right now. And, Scott, we have a chapter that talks about money is the foundation of faithfulness.

[00:11:16] And, again, back to some people that might say, well, the pastor's talking about money. That has nothing to do with the Bible, really. The Bible says more, and Jesus has more parables about money than anything else. And there are two principles you derive from that. Number one, if we can't be faithful with money, we can't be faithful for very much else. And it seems to me that that's really the story of the parable of the talents in Matthew 25,

[00:11:43] or, of course, you see it somewhat repeated in Luke 19. And the second principle is either you're serving God or money, which gets us back to God or mammon. That brings us back to, again, something earlier in the Sermon on the Mount. But it does seem to me that when we talk about money, we can really, in some respects, also discern where a person is spiritually, can't we? Well said, Ricky.

[00:12:12] I definitely think that what we do with finances does much about our relationships with Christ and is a reflection of our relationships with the Lord. And I think if you take people who get saved later in life, then there will be a dramatic change for their finances, assuming that they were genuinely born again. And much of that principle comes from one of the other parables Jesus taught that had to do with finances, the parable of dishonest manager, speaking of stewardship or dishonest steward.

[00:12:41] And toward the end of it, Jesus says, one who's faithful and little is also faithful and much, and one who's dishonest and very little is also dishonest and much. And then he goes on and says, if then you have not been faithful in the unrighteous wealth, who will entrust you to the true riches? And Jesus doesn't mean unrighteous as though wealth itself is immoral, like there's some money that's moral or bad and some, you know, that's good or evil. Instead, he's just referring to earthly wealth. And then he says, if you haven't been faithful in the unrighteous wealth,

[00:13:11] or which is to say earthly wealth, who's going to entrust you the true riches? Referring to heavenly riches. And so it seems pretty clear that our faithfulness on this side of heaven determines what our stewardship will look like in the next life. And so Jesus says that if we can't be faithful with earthly finances, then the Lord is not going to entrust to us heavenly or true finances or true blessings. And so, yeah, definitely. Go ahead, sir.

[00:13:37] No, I was just going to say what you're pointing out is, is that those attitudes are very important. And in some respects, they lead to the other chapters, because now I'd like to turn our focus, if we could, on to just the negatives, because you have chapters on the dangers of loving money and learning from a rich fool. So up until now, we've been kind of talking about the positive idea of money.

[00:14:01] But now you have a whole set of chapters looking at the real dangers that we find ourselves in. And a lot of people, I think, fail to understand that from a New Testament perspective, Scott, we are the wealthiest people that people in the first century could possibly imagine in terms of the wealth that we have.

[00:14:25] So any of the warnings that Jesus gave to the disciples when maybe they only had a coat or a cloak, maybe a change of clothes, maybe a home that would be a fraction of the size of the ones we take for granted. If you warn people about money and the deceitfulness of riches then, how much more should we pay attention to it now in the 21st century compared to what existed in the first century?

[00:14:55] That's exactly true, Kirby. And I'll take you back a little bit off what you're saying, because there's a tendency to read scripture, see verses about the wealthy, and if we live in the United States, believe that's not about us. But by historical standards and even standards throughout the rest of the world, we're not only the wealthiest people in the world, we're the wealthiest people who've ever lived at any time in human history. And in May and June, I took a missions trip to Malawi, Africa,

[00:15:22] to teach at a Bible college and a pastor's conference. And just seeing the level of poverty there reveals really the extravagance even the poorest people in our country still live in contrasted with the rest of the world. And so we want to be careful to look at those verses to rich people, at least if we're in the United States, and think that they don't apply to us because they have more application to us than almost anyone in history. Money itself is amoral, which is to say it's not moral or amoral. It's simply a tool.

[00:15:51] And this would be something, as you would talk about over the past in your show, guns, money, these are amoral things that sometimes the world wants to make us believe are immoral. If someone has more money, they're bad, or if someone has more guns, they're bad. But money is amoral. It's really what we do with it. And so 1 Timothy 6.10, a famous verse that even the unbelieving world knows, the love of money is the root of all evil, or root of all kinds of evil,

[00:16:21] it's condemning not money itself, but such a strong desire for it that it motivates people or leads people to commit various sins, which is why it says that it's the root of all. There are few sins that people will not commit to get money. And money can be behind when we spend that are committed. And so we do need to be on guard against that love of it, which is the love we can have whether we're rich or poor, whether we're young or old.

[00:16:46] Let's see what we can just real quickly then maybe focus on a couple of other kind of theological issues, and then we're going to get into the practical ones. And that is you have chapters on learning from the rich fool and how to avoid being a rich fool. And I established that to say, you know, we would be like that rich individual, but it wasn't that he was rich. It wasn't what he owned. It was really what owned him, right? Well said, Kirby.

[00:17:15] And the irony of that parable, the parable of the rich fool, is by almost all accounts he looks wise. He looks anything but foolish. He built a, I don't know if I'd say an empire, but he built a successful enough enterprise that he needed to put up more barns for himself. And as a farmer, you know, to have this sort of harvest is really to have a harvest of wealth. And so he's so rich he doesn't know what to do with all of his crops and all of his money. And so, you know, if there was a Forbes magazine wrote about him or anyone secularly looked at him,

[00:17:45] they'd say he's an incredibly wise person. But because he had no heart for Christ, he was a fool, and his soul was demanded of him, and then he ends up going to hell. I mean, how wise is someone when they don't spend a day of their life living for Christ? And so that's what led to his condemnation. So it goes back to stewardship and that need to be living for the Lord and using our resources for his glory. Let me just mention that those first six chapters alone really talk about, if you will,

[00:18:12] setting the principles, the theological principles. And before we go to the break, I wanted to maybe get into a couple of others. And you have chapters on giving willingly and giving sacrificially. That is a topic that we've addressed from time to time here on Point of View. But the first one is to give. And let's set aside the idea that the New Testament does not command the tithe. But as I've said, and Randy Alcorn and others have said,

[00:18:40] since so many of the early Christians were Jewish, they actually sort of have that as a baseline. And so when you see Paul talking about not giving under compulsion, grudgingly, but to be a cheerful giver, in their mind they were probably still thinking about something that would be on the order of the tithe. And he commends certain individuals in the first century because of their giving, doesn't he?

[00:19:09] Yeah, that's exactly right, Kervin. You know, I've spoken on finances in my church at conferences as a guest preacher. And if I preach and say we're not commanded to tithe, you know, people would almost cringe. And it's like, you know, I'm going to go give them a piece of my mind after service. I can't believe that he just said that. It was so rooted in our faith at times to believe we're commanded to give a tithe. But there were many tithes in the Old Testament. And so if people were bound to follow the Mosaic Law,

[00:19:38] they'd actually give a lot closer to 23% and 10%. And it's reasonable for many people to be expected to give more than 10%. I know American giving in the church averages about 4% per person. But for many people who God has given more, he would expect more. But you're right, the premier verse is 2 Corinthians 9, 7, that each one must give as he's decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. No command in the New Testament to give a tithe, no discussion of it.

[00:20:08] Instead, it must be something that we pray about with the Lord to see how much he wants us to give. Yes. Let's take a break. When we come back, we'll talk a little bit more about giving. But we're going to get into some other very significant issues as well. And that is this idea of stewardship. Certainly the issue of debt, another topic we've addressed so many times here, and the idea of saving and does that fit into retirement and so many other ideas. This Your Finance is God's Way book is already available.

[00:20:38] I'm sure you'll be able to find it in your local bookstore. If not, we have information about it on our website. You can get it both in paperback and Kindle. There is a workbook that goes with it as well, so you can find out more about that. And, of course, I might also mention the previous book by Scott, Your Marriage God's Way, which also has a workbook. So two books, two workbooks, but this one on Your Finance is God's Way. If this is something that you need to work on, if this is something you would like to teach in your Sunday school class,

[00:21:07] your life group, maybe even from the pulpit if you're a pastor, I would commend it to you. And it is very thorough and just loaded with scriptural verses, principles, and the rest. So we're going to take a break. We're going to continue our conversation talking about Your Finance is God's Way right after this. At Point of View, we believe there is power in prayer.

[00:21:35] And that is why we have relaunched our Pray for America campaign, a series of weekly emails to unite Americans in prayer for our nation. Imagine if hundreds of thousands of Americans started praying intentionally together on a weekly basis. You can help make that a reality by subscribing to our Pray for America emails.

[00:22:01] Just go to pointofview.net and click on the Pray for America banner that's right there on the homepage. Each week you'll receive a brief news update, a specific prayer guide, and a free resource to equip you in further action. We encourage you to not only pray with us each week, but to share these prayers and the resources with others in your life. Join the movement today.

[00:22:29] Visit pointofview.net and click on the banner Pray for America right there at the top. That's pointofview.net. Let's pray together for God to make a difference in our land. Point of View will continue after this.

[00:22:57] You are listening to Point of View. The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now, here again, is Kirby Anderson. Back once again as we talk about the book Your Finance is God's Way. And again, Scott has written, I think, a very helpful book. It, again, is published by our friends at Harvest House. Sixteen chapters.

[00:23:25] We've worked our way through almost half of those. So we'll try to finish much of it off before the end of the first hour here. And let me just also mention that when we are talking about this issue of giving, it is very relevant because years ago when I wrote a book dealing with finances, I was digging into the research done by George Barna. And even among Christians, I think it is fair to say that if you say the tithe is 10% and we recognize it's not,

[00:23:54] you could find very quickly that even if self-identified born-again Christians, less than 10% give 10%. So that tells you a lot. Now, that's the negative. The positive is that if you've looked at some of the other research, it shows that Christians give more than non-Christians. By the way, conservatives give more than liberals. And we're not just talking about money. We're also talking about give more time, more of their talent.

[00:24:22] As a matter of fact, one research study, again, of this book, Why People Give, had to do with the fact that even in terms of giving blood, they said that if the rest of the nation gave blood at the level that conservatives give blood, we might never have a blood shortage. So I think on the one hand, we recognize that Christians give more than non-Christians. Conservatives give more than liberals. But when you dig down, maybe not as much.

[00:24:50] And that brings us to a chapter, Scott, on giving sacrificially. And we do have, I think, a great model in the New Testament, and that's in 2 Corinthians 8 and 9, because here is a story of the Macedonians. And here, during Paul's third missionary journey, he gathers a special offering, apparently from very poor Christians, but were very, very generous.

[00:25:20] And it does, I think, illustrate the fact that we should not only be giving, but we might really think about whether we should be giving sacrificially. Share, if you would, a little bit more out of that passage. Yeah, well said. It says that they gave, 2 Corinthians 8, 2, about that, in Macedonians, they gave in a severe test of affliction, says that their abundance of joy, which is back to you, you mentioned in 2 Corinthians 9, 10, that God was a cheerful giver. They gave cheerfully.

[00:25:48] It says their extreme poverty from that overflowed in a wealth of generosity on their part. And so because God owns everything, as we talked about earlier in the show, the biggest deal isn't so much what we give, but how we give. And what I mean by that is do we give sacrificially and do we give joyfully? And so $500 given by a wealthy person could be less than, you know,

[00:26:14] $100 given by someone that has much less because God isn't struggling on the throne trying to get the resources or finance he needs. It's an act of worship. And so to be able, the sacrifice behind the giving is what makes it significant. I think of that account in the Old Testament with David when he goes to build that altar and he goes to Aruna who thinks so highly of David and says, I'll give you the wood, I'll give you the ox, and I'll give you everything you need to construct this altar. I'll even give you the sacrifice for it.

[00:26:44] And David says, no, but I will surely pay you for these things because I refuse to give to God anything that doesn't cost me something. And the idea is a sacrifice that doesn't involve any sacrifice isn't really a sacrifice. And so I can't tell people, that's why I said earlier, it must be worked out between them and the Lord, how much they give. But I can't say we should feel it. There should be sacrifice behind it. If we're giving and we're not feeling it, we're probably not giving enough. Again, I'm going to maybe use an anecdotal story,

[00:27:12] although you also in your book document how few American Christians give even 10%. Only about 5% give 10%. So as I said just a minute ago, but I've also had the opportunity over the years to talk with different people that are financial planners or accountants who probably know more about a person's finances. Because even when you survey somebody, they'll say, oh, yeah, I give to the church, but they maybe don't have a sense about it.

[00:27:39] But I've heard from various accountants that a couple of things. Number one, oftentimes people think they're giving more than they are. But when it comes time to record that in terms of their taxes or in terms of their financial planning, they aren't really giving even at what they think they are. So the problem may be worse. But here's the other one which you alluded to just a minute ago. And I've heard more than one accountant tell me this,

[00:28:04] that as an individual's income increases, the percentage of their giving decreases. It seems to me it can go the other way, don't you think? That if indeed much has been given, much would be expected. And yet, again, you can see some individuals that are very wealthy that are making six-figure, even sometimes seven-figure incomes

[00:28:29] and nevertheless are not giving at a level that sometimes people that are just barely at minimum wage, maybe on the lower end, or maybe even just in the middle class might be giving to various organizations, including the church. Yeah, that's a fascinating and sad point, Kirby. And I think it shows that the reality that people can be covetous or love money,

[00:28:55] whether – or that that covetousness or love for money can grow as wealth grows. And so because it makes no sense that people who have more money should be giving less. They would be in a position to give more. But probably for many people, as our wealth increases, so does our standard of living. And so that house, that car was accessible to us previously, but when we got that raise, suddenly we need the bigger house, we need the fancier, newer cars, and then we feel like we don't have as much room in our budget

[00:29:25] because we have to keep up with this new standard of living. And that we set for ourselves, which is why I generally tell people, if God blesses you more, try not to increase your standard of giving, your standard of living, but try to increase your standard of giving. Yes. You also have a chapter, of course, on God's generosity and courage is giving cheerfully. And it relates to a principle of reaping and sowing. Now, again, I don't want people to give to get. There are individuals that have preached that. That's not what we're talking about there.

[00:29:54] But it is pretty clear in the New Testament, is it not, that though whoever sows sparingly will reap sparingly, whoever sows bountifully will reap bountifully. And, again, sometimes people say, well, if I give this much money, I'll get this much money back. No, sometimes those benefits, the reaping is a spiritual benefit. But there's a sowing and reaping principle that I think sometimes we're afraid to talk about

[00:30:22] because we've seen the principle sometimes misused by sometimes a TV preacher or something like that. But it really is a New Testament principle, isn't it? It is. Yes. And so Galatians 6, reaping and sowing, it does look back to the Old Testament and the Mosaic Covenant and where there were blessings for obedience and cursings for disobedience. We quote that verse in Galatians often, but the context actually is giving financially.

[00:30:49] And so, and then when Jesus says, if you give, you know, it's going to be given back to you, pressed down, overflowing. And so this is kind of like Proverbs, Kirby. They're not guarantees. It's more principles to live by. But the important thing is God is looking at our heart and why we do things. And so if you're given $100 because you think you're going to give back $110, then God sees that in our heart. But if you're giving because you're rejoicing over what Christ has done for you and you're just thankful to be able to give back a little in return compared to what he's done for you, then God sees that.

[00:31:19] And so we're not even told exactly that when, that we, reaping and sowing is necessarily going to be financial. It could be blessing in other ways. It doesn't mean that if you give this amount of money that you're going to be blessed with some amount of money in return. God can bless us in other ways, whether it's greater peace, improved relationships, you know what I mean? Yes. And again, you have a great chapter there on stewardship towards the poor, and I think that is one that we could emphasize. But I do want to leave the last segment to talk about debt

[00:31:47] because that is a very significant issue in your life, and you have certainly wanted to be debt-free. So before we take the break, what about the piece that actually precedes that? And that is we have basically a spending problem, not an income problem. The reason people go into debt, the reason the federal government is $35 trillion in debt is not because it isn't bringing money into the coffers.

[00:32:17] It's because they're spending too much, and that's true at the individual level as well, isn't it? It is, definitely. And so we're quick to criticize the government, but we're part of the problem. We're doing the same thing. We're either not voting or we're voting for people that we believe are going to give us what we want, and we are comfortable with people's college, their debts being relieved, because we don't want them to have to pay that back. And all of these things contribute to that problem, so we're definitely part of it.

[00:32:47] Well, we're going to take a break, and when we come back, get into that. I love that illustration. When I drive down the road and pass some of these storage units, I wonder what's in there that people don't need, can't get rid of, and keep, and of course there is an article that you quote from, the self-storage, how storage and warehouse for people's personal junk became, are you ready for this, a $38 billion industry. So maybe we have more of a spending problem than an income problem.

[00:33:17] When we come back from the break, certainly this book also gets into this issue of debt, and so I really want to focus on what is God's view of debt, how, if you're in debt, can you get out of debt, how can ultimately, if you aren't in debt, you can avoid it. Those are some very important principles that Scott has put together in his book, Your Finance is God's Way. We'll continue our conversation right after this.

[00:33:55] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Scott LaPierre with us as we talk about his book for one last segment here, Your Finance is God's Way. And you have a couple chapters on debt, and I'd be remiss if we didn't focus on that, because your goal, as you have raised all of your children on one income, is to have zero debt. And you give some great illustrations about that. But let's, if we can, again, focus on the biblical perspective for just a minute.

[00:34:24] And that is, even though we live in a debt-based society, sad to say, and that is certainly the case, and even though sometimes the dollar is a melting ice cube, it's worth a lot less than it was a few years ago due to inflation and everything else, we are dealing with massive amounts of credit card debt, car debt, student loan debt, home debt, mortgage debt, and the rest. And so how do we think about this from a biblical point of view? Yeah, well said, Kirby.

[00:34:54] And really that's the question. We have to have a shift in our thinking. The language of Romans 12 not being conformed, that it's good being transformed by what Scripture says. And so not looking at things in a worldly way, which embraces debt for televisions and debt for vacations, just about anything. And so the Bible, Proverbs 22, 7, famous says the borrower is a slave to the lender. Proverbs 13, 22, a good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children

[00:35:21] versus, you know, passing along debt we should be saving up. And so if I divide that into two categories, it's interesting you mentioned Michael Ferris earlier. He's a wise, godly man, and he had pushed back a bit against debt and encouraged me, my view of it, and encouraged me to think about mortgage debt being different than consumer debt. And I appreciated that. And so if we divide debt just momentarily into consumer debt,

[00:35:50] there's really no liberty or biblical basis for going into debt for that vacation or those clothing or for that other car. And you've probably heard repeatedly or preached on your show that when you drive that car off the lot, it depreciates about 15% to 30%. You know, let me just say that one more time to listeners, that people should be purchasing their vehicles with cash and driving used vehicles that people are more than happy to get rid of.

[00:36:17] And so we shouldn't be going into debt for those things. I know people kind of look and it's like, how am I going to purchase that home for $400,000? Because once I save $400,000 up to buy it with cash, now it costs $600,000 or, you know, $600,000. And so because of that, I see a liberty for mortgages or purchasing homes with debt. But when we got married, we had the condition to, as quickly as possible, pay off some of the college debt. My wife and I got saved in our 20s.

[00:36:47] And so we got married. I think there might have been some credit card debt that she had with college debt for both of us, debt on a vehicle. And so what I would tell people is if they want to pay off debt, they need to embrace sacrifice. They need to embrace denial and saying no to themselves and to certain purchases and choosing to live at a certain lower standard for a period of time until they can get ahead. And maybe they reward themselves then with that vacation

[00:37:15] or they reward themselves with the improved vehicle. But to get out of debt means really sacrificing. It reminds me also of earlier in the week, we talked with Professor Paul Kenger. He wrote a piece called You Can Never Have Enough Kids. And, of course, he has as many kids almost as you do. And yet lots of times we go, I don't know how you can cover that. And he says, look, the philosophy that you have of, well, I'll just wait until I have enough money to have kids.

[00:37:44] And he'll always come back and say, well, how much money did your grandparents have? How much money did your great-grandparents have when they packed on ships and headed to Ellis Island when they were dirt poor? And they go, well, they didn't have any money. How many kids did they have? Well, they had quite a few. And so sometimes it has to do with a culture. And we as Christians need to be sort of counterculture to that. And your own testimony in these chapters, I think, is very important.

[00:38:12] And again, if I can also encourage you and also point out that there is even a place to say that the homes themselves are a depreciating asset, not because of the fact that they're appreciating. The house I'm in right now, Scott, is not as nice as it was when we moved in. It's, quote, worth twice as much, but we haven't replaced the curtains, the carpets, anything. It's in worse shape,

[00:38:40] but it's worth, quote, twice as much. Well, it really isn't. It's due to the fact that the dollar is worth half as much. And so in some respects, if you price, for example, homes in Bitcoin or something like that, you can see even those are a depreciating asset. So kind of rethink this from a more objective and biblical point of view, and maybe that will get us into the right kind of mindset, which then, of course, leaves us to one last point.

[00:39:09] And that is, of course, in addition to spending and giving, there's also the idea of saving. But you also suggest that we should be saving in the right way, not saving in the wrong way. Can you explain that? Yeah, I can. So saving, there are kind of two ways that I see people saving the wrong way or saving unethically. And one way would be being dishonest, whether with taxes or being immoral

[00:39:38] or unethical to get that promotion, or you're completing that project, but you're doing so by cutting some corners. And so when people want to get ahead, they can easily justify, well, you know, I haven't done my best here, or I deserve this promotion more than this other person, so I'm going to gossip about them behind their back. So just those immoral things we might do to get ahead, or I know I gave enough here, so I should be able to be, just fudge a little bit here on my taxes.

[00:40:06] And the other, but maybe the more common way, which we kind of talked about a bit earlier, that people want to save is by not giving to the church. And we have some friends, I share this story in my book. They were dear friends of ours, and they're godly people, and they wanted to get out of debt, and they committed to giving after all their debt was paid off. And they shared that they never got ahead. In fact, they thought they were getting further behind.

[00:40:31] And they were mature enough to recognize that it was probably God was not blessing their endeavor. And he wasn't going to let them get ahead when, you know, Matthew 6, 33, seek first the kingdom of God, these other things will be added unto you. They weren't seeking God's kingdom first. So then they decided that they were going to give, and then sure enough they were able to pay off debt and get ahead.

[00:40:55] Because God doesn't have any trouble making things work out for or against us when we honor him. I think about 1 Samuel 2, 30, where God says, I honor those who honor me. And if we honor God with our finances, he can ensure that things go as well for us as he wants them to. And so if you ever want to publish a book, one of the first things a publisher says is, what sets your finance book apart from the other thousands of finance books out there? And I said I was going to talk about stewardship. And I think one of the things that gave me some credibility with Harvest House was,

[00:41:25] we've been a single-income family. Before I was a pastor, I was an elementary school teacher, and neither of these professions make a lot of money. And we've been able to take care of, at this point, 10 children. And I give the credit to God who's provided for us. We have made decisions, though, you know, whether it's shopping at Goodwill. Or the other day, Katie and I are driving around, and she's like, hey, there's this garage sale. Can we stop there? And so we don't buy a whole lot of stuff new. We try to be thrifty.

[00:41:55] But we drive vehicles that are older. But at the same time, you know, making those decisions, I think God has chosen to be gracious to us and allow me to take care of all of my children and never feel like we're having to go without. And so when I talk about saving, I mean also saving up for our children. I mean saving up for an emergency or a trial that we experience. Of course. Yeah.

[00:42:22] I need to, just before I run out of time, mention the fact that we also have a link to your website. It's scotlapierre.org. You don't even have to remember how to spell it because it's right there, but they can find out more about your ministry. You also have a free copy of God-Centered Marriages. If you'd like to know more about the book, it's there. You can see your whole family and all sorts of other resources that are available, including your podcast and your blog. And so, Scott, I'm certainly excited that the book is out, and I really appreciate you giving us some time today here on Point of View

[00:42:50] to talk about Your Finance is God's Way. Well, thank you, Kirby. It was a privilege. I appreciate what you're doing tackling these topics from God's respect. God bless you in your listening. And you've been listening to Point of View. In 19th century London, two towering historical figures did battle, not with guns and bombs, but words and ideas.

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