Point of View May 26, 2026 – Hour 1 : Hearing Jesus

[00:00:04] Across America Live, this is Point of View. And now, Liberty McCartney. Welcome to Point of View. It's a joy to be with you today as always and I hope that you had a restful Memorial Day weekend.

[00:00:26] I do want to say that our hearts and prayers are with anyone listening who may have lost a loved one who's serving in the military or has loved ones serving now. Definitely a reminder to keep all of our military service members in our prayers. So I wanted to open with that. But I'm excited about today. We have so many great topics to jump into, including in this hour we're going to talk about discerning truth and hearing God's voice.

[00:00:52] That is so important all the time, but especially in these times when it can feel so hard to know what truth is. And so I'm excited about that conversation and we have a wonderful guest who will talk through those issues with us. In the next hour, we're going to switch gears, talk a little bit about medieval literature, specifically Dante's Divine Comedy. That's going to be really fun and we're going to talk about why it might still be relevant for us today. And we'll wrap up the show with some comments on current events, including, of course, the impending Iran deal,

[00:01:21] as well as some news from the World Happiness Report and some surprising findings from that and some other things as well. And you can follow along with all of the topics that we discussed and guest interview information at pointofview.net. So I encourage you to check that out and look at all the resources that we have available for you there. But let me introduce our first guest today. Rachel Grohl is an author, speaker and Bible teacher with a master's degree in Bible exposition from Biola University.

[00:01:48] She has spent years serving in ministry, helping make scripture accessible and practical for everyday life through her books, including Hearing Jesus. We'll be talking about that a little bit today. And her teachings and podcasts, Rachel encourages audiences to deepen their understanding of God's word and cultivate a personal relationship with Jesus. Rachel, thank you so much for joining us here on Point of View today. Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to chatting this afternoon. Yes, I am looking forward to it, too.

[00:02:18] I just want to thank you for these resources that you've put out there. Just looking through all of your resources and your devotional Hearing Jesus and your podcast and website. There is a wealth really there for people to take advantage of because discerning God's voice is so important in these times. And so I really appreciate your approach to biblical study. And I know we're going to talk about all of those things in detail throughout the conversation today. But as we get started, I was wondering if we could just get to know you.

[00:02:47] And I would love to hear about your background and specifically how you came to know Jesus. Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me. You know, I think like a lot of people, I grew up in an environment that was not necessarily what most people would think would be conducive to creating kingdom impact. I grew up in a family that was, you know, complete opposite of what you would think of in a Christian family.

[00:03:13] And it was plagued by addiction and poverty and chaos, really. And because of that, at a very young age, I learned to be pretty independent and kind of do my own thing. And I was a straight A student. I read a lot of books. But really, it was about age 15 where I started to understand through the exposure to the gospel that there was something so much more than what I was currently living for.

[00:03:38] And it offered an alternative to the life that I had seen my parents living and the life that I grew up in. And so it was through kind of a stubborn experience with a best friend and her mom and a youth group that I eventually came to know the Lord. And I'm so thankful for people that didn't give up on me. They saw a stubborn heart in me, but they knew that the Lord could redeem that stubborn heart in a really powerful way.

[00:04:02] And so through that friend and her mom, I was given lots of opportunities and myself, I was discipled. And, you know, I know looking back over that time that those foundational years, those first couple of years after I got saved, it really set the trajectory for me for the rest of my life. And I didn't quite understand it at the time. But for me, the way that worked is from the moment of salvation, I also felt the call to full-time ministry. At 15, I didn't really know what that looked like.

[00:04:29] But I knew that if all of this was true and if Jesus was who he said he was, that there was a lot of people that I knew and loved that were going to be going to hell and I wanted to do something about it. And so that set me down this path of evangelism and discipleship. And I really feel that that's what the Lord has created me for. And so that looks a lot of different ways, depending on who you are and how it can help. But that's part of the reason why I'm creating the resources that I am. Wow. That's an encouraging story.

[00:04:57] And one of the things we want to do is equip people to be able to live out their faith. And I just think about your friend and her mom and just a little bit you shared that if they hadn't been willing to do that, that might have impacted your life negatively. And so I was wondering, how does that impact your ministry today and the way that you approach evangelism and discipleship just based on your experience of how you received that?

[00:05:25] Well, my friend and I had actually been friends since birth pretty much, you know, really nursery school. And I found out later that her mom had and their family had been praying for my salvation, my family's salvation that entire time. It just took till about age 15 for me to really understand that. And so I think through the persistent experience of God in my life and how he put people strategically in my life that were committed to praying for me.

[00:05:51] And I'm sure there were probably moments where they were planting seeds in that 15 years. But it wasn't until that age that I was ready to really understand and receive the Lord. And I think of what that looks like now, 15 years of prayers, 15 years of planting seeds and loving somebody where they're at, despite the chaos of the world, you know, the family I was growing up in. And, you know, just yesterday, my friends and I, I'm sorry, my children and I went up to, we have like a lake near our house.

[00:06:20] And I don't know why, but the Lord had been prompting me just to go buy some flowers and go hand them out to people and just share the gospel with people. And my kids didn't even, I mean, we do crazy stuff like that all the time, but my kids didn't even question it. And I love that because we do those kinds of things often enough that it was like, oh, okay, this is what we're doing today for Memorial Day. We're just going to go hand out flowers and ask people if they want prayer or if they want to talk about Jesus.

[00:06:44] And as we were doing that, I was thinking through this generational impact that that's going to make, not just in my children, but in some of those seed planting conversations. And, you know, your listeners probably know, you probably know there's statistics out there that say that people sometimes have to hear the gospel up to 15 times before they receive. And so where could we be in that process? You know, maybe we're the 15th person, maybe we're the first person, but we trust the Lord with that. But part of our role is trusting him and being obedient when we get those promptings.

[00:07:15] Nobody got saved yesterday that we know of, excuse me. But what I do know is that we were obedient in doing what he asked us to do and we're trusting him with the outcome of those conversations. Wow. That is so encouraging and convicting as well. And we know scripture says the word of the Lord never comes back void. And so just the fact that you were willing to go out there and to offer prayer and to show that love and share the gospel. I think that's something that we can all do and be encouraged in that.

[00:07:42] And, man, just to know that your friends, family was praying for you for so many years, that's another encouragement. Because I think everybody listening right now, and I know I have had this in my life, too. There are loved ones. There are friends. There are family members who don't know the Lord. And sometimes it feels like you have been praying for decades. And you have.

[00:08:05] And so, Rachel, thank you for sharing your testimony of how you came to faith because it is such an important reminder that God's timing is not our timing. But let's be persistent in prayer and in showing God's love to people. So we're going to continue talking about Rachel's ministry when we get back. We're about to go to a short break. But we're going to talk about some other things in her life that have impacted her ministry and then her resources as well. Like I said, there's a devotional. There are podcasts. There are podcasts.

[00:08:32] There are books that are going to help you be able to discern God's voice and really dig into Scripture. And that is so much of what we need today. We'll be right back after this break. This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:04] It should be obvious by now that shortages from supply chain disruptions will be affecting Americans and the rest of the world for the near future. Whether the war continues or ends tomorrow, the blockage of the Strait of Hormuz will continue to affect supplies and prices. At the top of the list is energy. Usually approximately 14 million barrels of oil flow through the Strait of Hormuz every day. That has not happened for months, creating the largest oil shock in the world has ever experienced. Gas prices nationwide are $4 and prices in California are now at $6.

[00:09:34] Diesel is even higher, and that affects the cost of transporting everything on land. Fertilizer is another important commodity that travels through the Strait of Hormuz. Approximately one-third of the world's fertilizer is not making it to farmers who need it. They should be putting on a spring application on their land. If they cannot do so, they might not even plant their crops. Even if it was available, farmers might not be able to pay the skyrocketing fertilizer prices.

[00:09:59] According to the American Farm Bureau, 70% of U.S. farmers said that they could not afford fertilizer. Add to this the significant drought that has affected farmland this year in the lower 48 states, we may not have so many amber waves of grain or products from our fruited plain. The CPI inflation rate just hit 3.8% year over year, but that is a lagging indicator of what consumers spent. The producer price index increased by 6%.

[00:10:26] That suggests that the inflation costs will be going up in the future. Politicians may not want to talk about this, especially in an election year, but a wise and discerning Christian would take note and make appropriate plans. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my Point of View. Go deeper on topics like you just heard by visiting pointofview.net. That's pointofview.net.

[00:10:59] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. So we're talking with Rachel Grohl still about her ministry. We talked about her testimony and how she came to the Lord after years of the influence of a friend and her family praying for her and sharing the gospel. And I just want to emphasize that again. Rachel, I think you said that the average time a person hears the gospel before actually accepting Jesus is 15 times. Is that right?

[00:11:28] Yeah, and of course there's variables with that. You know, the Lord can work on somebody's heart in the first time. But statistically, it's kind of like that just even if you think of human psychology and when you go to buy something or when you're trying something new, there often has to be repeated exposure. And I think the heart of that is one time is often not enough. You know, and sometimes we can feel like a failure.

[00:11:57] I know one of my daughters, she walked up to somebody and just asked them if they would like one of the flowers we had, and they said no. And that's really hard for a kid to receive and recognize, like, wait, this isn't just about this flower. I wanted to pray for them. And they're rejecting not just this flower but this opportunity to have this gospel conversation. And so some of those real-world examples have been how we have taught our kids not to give up, that they're not rejecting us per se.

[00:12:24] And they may not even be rejecting the gospel. We're just praying for an open door and trusting the Lord with the timing of that. And, you know, so for us, we do things like that to kind of help our kids understand that not every single time do you approach somebody, are you going to get a favorable reception? But I think the lesson is that we don't give up when that happens. Yeah, that is so important for us to know and to remember. And what an important lesson to teach your kids as well.

[00:12:50] I want to, as we go along, talk about how we, as parents, can teach our kids to discern God's voice. And you have some resources for that specifically. But let me just mention your devotional. It's Hearing Jesus, 365 Daily Devotions for Women. It's a really beautiful book here. It would make a wonderful gift for somebody. And you can find links to that at pointofview.net.

[00:13:12] But talk about why this book came into being, where it came from, and specifically the theme of being able to discern the voice of God. Well, I think for me, one of the things that I wrestled with throughout my life is having confidence in knowing, is this my voice? Is this the Lord? Is this an enemy? Is this my own emotions? You know, is this bad tacos from dinner last night?

[00:13:39] And as I serve around the globe, I learned that it didn't really matter if I was talking to women in the bush in Africa somewhere or inner city Brooklyn or I live in rural Pennsylvania in the fields of Pennsylvania.

[00:13:55] It seemed to me that I was hearing this common insecurity echoed from women everywhere, where there was even just this insecurity where if they thought they were on the right track and they were confident in hearing the Lord, sometimes the other people at the table didn't affirm that. And I know that I had my own insecurities with that.

[00:14:14] And so I wanted to be able to create a resource that not just gave people a devotional to quickly read through the day and then they just go on with their day, but really tools to help them learn how to discern the difference in those scenarios so that they could grow in confidence. Because, you know, even if we're talking within the context of parenthood, you know, I know as a mom that the word cell phone is not in the scriptures.

[00:14:37] However, God's character and God's nature and boundaries and stewardship of our relationships, all those things are. And so when we learn how to discern God's voice from God's word, it gives us the tool set that we need to parent or to be in relationship with other believers. Yes, and that is so wise. So maybe walk us through some of those foundational points that we need to be grounded in, because I think you are so right.

[00:15:05] It is so easy to be full of insecurity and to not know whether or not we're doing the right thing. And even you saying like the prompting of the Holy Spirit to share the gospel and get those flowers, you know, somebody I think maybe I've experienced this myself. And I know it's probably relatable, like, oh, I think I should pray for that person. I don't know. Maybe I shouldn't. And there's just, you know, it's so hard sometimes to really be confident and stepping out and living on mission.

[00:15:34] So what are some of those basics that we need to know God's voice versus the enemy's voice or our own voice? Are there some kind of touchstone points that can help us discern that? Yeah, absolutely. You know, I would say first and foremost that the way that we learn what God's voice sounds like is through reading the word. We learn, like I said, his character and his nature and his heart for people that way.

[00:16:01] And if you think about that within the context of our human relationships, you know, when my husband and I first got together, if he called me from a strange number and we were just dating, I may not recognize his voice. But now he works at a hospital. And so it doesn't really matter what number he's calling me from. The moment I hear his voice, I know it's him. That happens because I've spent time talking with him. I've spent time in relationship with him. And I think often we forget that that's really how it happens with the Lord as well.

[00:16:30] That's how we get to know him is by reading his word. And we have to remember through the lens of the fact that he wants to be in relationship with us. He wants to speak to us. That's why we have the word. That's why he's called the word. We were created for relationship with him. But then I think taking that a step further, we have to recognize that God's voice will never contradict God's word. And often I think that's the first litmus test that sometimes we want to skip over.

[00:16:57] But the reality is, especially what we see in the news cycle today, hardly a month goes by where we don't hear of another pastor or a ministry that has grossly failed people through sin. And we can sit there and watch those headlines or read those headlines and think, oh man, how did that happen? I think it happens because people are not spending time in the word. Because when we're spending time in the word, we recognize the prompting of the Holy Spirit to say something, to speak up, to speak out, even when it's uncomfortable.

[00:17:26] And then I think taking it a step further from that, that obedience portion is really a big part of it. You know, understanding the word of the Lord and hearing his voice and recognizing it, but then dropping the ball when it comes to being obedient to whatever it is God's asking us to do. I think that's one of the enemy's greatest tools is keeping us from movement. And, you know, I had a friend the one day that was saying to me, you know, I was praying for opportunities. I want to hear God's voice.

[00:17:54] But sometimes God asks me to do really crazy things. And in her situation, the Lord was asking her to make a meal for somebody that she barely knew. And she said, what should I do? I said, well, make the meal. I said, worst case scenario, okay, you show up and they don't need a meal. Okay, they put it in the freezer or they throw it out. Either way, you know you're going to be in the Lord. Well, she ended up showing up and did not know it. But that person's mother had just passed away. And they were still kind of, yeah, they were still kind of in that shock scenario.

[00:18:23] And so the fact that this woman shows up with a casserole not even knowing this, well, of course, it built the faith in my friend. But then that woman that received that meal felt so loved and so seen by the Lord because she said, there's no way that you would have known. We're not even acquaintances, really. We're just, we live on the same block. But the fact that that woman was obedient to the prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Lord used that to help that woman who was grieving to feel seen. And I think so often the Lord wants to do things like that, but we second guess it.

[00:18:51] And so what I would encourage people to do is to be obedient to that voice, even if it sounds crazy. I mean, there's been so many things that the Lord has asked me to do that in the moment sounds crazy. But then after the fact, I see how he was using that. And maybe it's not evident right away. Maybe it's more about building my obedience or building my faith or testing me a little bit to see if I'm going to be obedient. But we have to release the outcome of that regardless of how it turns out. If we feel good about it or not, we release the outcome when we trust the Lord with that.

[00:19:20] Yeah, that's so beautiful. Well, we have much more to discuss. Yes, I do have just a couple other questions before we go to a break. Really quickly, I know you published another voice. Knowing God's voice, what female prophets of the Bible teach us about recognizing, trusting, and obeying God? So before we go to our next break, can you maybe give us a preview of what you cover in that book as well? Yeah, so that one is in a similar vein, as are all the resources that I create.

[00:19:49] But that one specifically looks at the female prophets in Scripture. Sure. So Deborah and Miriam and Hulda and Anna and a lot of women that operated within that prophetic gifting. And what that means, you know, I think often when we hear those women taught about, it's through the context of perhaps they were the exception. But what we do in that book is we walk through that and help readers to understand that they're not the exception, that God has always used women.

[00:20:16] The plan has always been to use women, and that plan continues today the way he still uses women. Wow. Wow. What a wonderful resources, and I love that. And so, again, if you are listening right now and you are thinking, man, I need to check out Rachel's books. I need to get her devotional, her book on the female prophets of the Bible. You can go to her website, but it's easy to find because at pointofview.net we have the link under today's show information. So definitely check that out.

[00:20:44] We've been talking with Rachel Roll about how to discern God's voice. We've heard her testimony, such a testament to the power of prayer. We've talked about reading God's word and how important it is to stay in the word because that is how we learn what God's voice sounds like. And knowing that he will never contradict his word and we can understand what the Holy Spirit is telling us to do, and that is such an encouragement.

[00:21:10] And so when we come back, let's talk a little bit about when life gets really hard because sometimes those moments are when it feels the hardest to trust God and to hear from him. And Rachel has things to share on that as well. So we'll discuss that after this short break. The Bible tells us not to worry, and yet there is a lot of worrying stuff in our world today.

[00:21:40] Thankfully, the Bible doesn't stop at telling us not to worry. God gives us a next step. He says we need to pray. But sometimes even knowing what to pray can be difficult. And that is why Point of View has relaunched our Pray for America movement, a series of weekly emails to guide you in prayer for our nation.

[00:22:04] Each week, you'll receive a brief update about a current issue affecting Americans, along with a written prayer that you can easily share with others. We'll also include a short free resource for you in each email so you can learn more about the issue at hand. Will you commit to pray for America? Go to pointofview.net. Click on the Pray for America banner at the top of the page to subscribe.

[00:22:34] Again, that's pointofview.net. Click on the Pray for America banner. Let's pray together for God to make a difference in America. Point of View will continue after this. You are listening to Point of View.

[00:23:03] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now, here again is Liberty McCarter. Well, we're still talking with Rachel Grohl. And we're talking about discerning God's voice. She has multiple resources, books, devotional, podcast. But, Rachel, part of your story as a mom is going through the process for international adoption.

[00:23:30] And then things didn't work out the way that you were expecting them to. And so I was wondering if you could share that story with us and talk about how that impacted your walk with God. Yeah, you know, that was a really difficult season of my life. Probably the most difficult season to date. And I've lived through a lot of really hard things. But my husband and I were working for the better part of five years and tens of thousands of dollars towards an international adoption.

[00:24:00] And we got to the very end of the process. And it was a Friday. We were getting ready for our in-country lawyer to go pick up our little guy for our final court appearance, getting ready to bring him home back to the States. And when they went to go pick him up, he wasn't there. And I remember getting the phone call being very confused. And our pastor actually was the one that delivered the news to us saying that when they went to go pick him up, he was no longer there.

[00:24:30] And essentially they thought that it was because he had fallen into a trafficking ring. And I remember just being so confused. Like, in my mind, I just thought drug trafficking. And I thought, well, what would they want a little boy for drug trafficking? And our pastor kind of just lost it. You know, I could hear him breaking up a little bit. And he said, no, not drug trafficking, human trafficking.

[00:24:53] And that moment, you know, for anybody that's gone through any kind of adoption scenario, you know that by the time you're five years in, that child is a child of your heart. I felt about him the way I feel about my girls. And it became a moment where I fell to my knees. And really, it started us down this trajectory of trying to figure out how this could have happened, but also what this meant for our faith. Because the Lord had directed us all the way up until that point.

[00:25:22] The Lord had provided the funds and our church had supported us, our community had supported us. This was five years in the making. And there was a lot that happened in that process. There was a trafficking ring out of East Africa that was shut down. And the country has redone some things to prevent that from happening in the future. But he was one of over 100 children that we knew of that we could track that had been trafficked through this orphanage.

[00:25:48] And I'll tell you, with the way that this relates to the book, I think it was the first time in my life where I had to actually reconcile what I said I believed with what I truly believed. And what I mean by that is, of course, we say God is good. But can we still believe that God is good when things feel so bad?

[00:26:11] And I remember having this moment with the Lord on the floor where my carpet was literally soaked wet from my tears, just so confused. And so just trying to figure this whole scenario out, my heart aching. And I had to make a decision to believe that God was still good, even though I didn't understand, even though what I was seeing in the physical did not match up with what I knew in the spiritual. It was no longer me feeling like God was good.

[00:26:37] It was making the decision to believe God was good despite my circumstances. And I think for me, that was a pivotal moment for me and for my husband and for our family. Secondly, we had to choose to believe God was who he said he was and his nature was what he said it was, even though that's not how it felt in the moment. And I think emotions often are tricky, but they lie to us. The enemy will also lie to us when it comes to our emotions.

[00:27:05] And so instead of listening to our emotions, we had to go back to what we knew and what we knew was God's word. And we knew God's word was true. And so while there are not a lot of people probably that are going to go through a failed adoption and their child being trafficked into a different country, I do know that we all live in this broken world. And we deal with the brokenness that the enemy has tried to distract us with. And so maybe that's finances or maybe that's grief in a different way.

[00:27:35] Maybe that's job loss or relationship loss. I don't know what that is for each person, but what I do know is that this side of heaven, we are going to experience those things. And I think that actually offers us a really beautiful opportunity where this side of heaven, it's the only time we're going to be able to experience as believers choosing to believe God despite the brokenness that we're living in.

[00:27:56] And so as difficult as a season that was for us, I think it did change the trajectory of my relationship with the Lord because it forced me to put one foot in front of the other and still follow God, even though I didn't understand the outcome. I didn't like the outcome. I didn't know what the Lord was going to do with the outcome and trust that he doesn't waste pain and that he still is the redeemer of all things. Wow. He doesn't waste pain. That is just thank you for sharing.

[00:28:25] I know that's difficult and I can hardly imagine anything more heartbreaking. And like you said, we do live in a broken world. And so people may have not had that experience. But if somebody is grieving or a tragedy occurs and they ask, if you are good, God, then how could this happen? What was your process? I know you said you had to make a decision, but I'm sure that there were battles, I imagine.

[00:28:55] And you wrestling. And I noticed this listening to your podcast that a lot of times you have biblical affirmations that are based in scripture. And I was interested in that. And I don't know if that played into kind of getting you through that season. But just what are some tools that you turn to? Because, again, I just can't imagine how difficult that would be to remind yourself of what God says when you're walking through something like that.

[00:29:26] Yes. Well, actually, affirmations were a big part of it. It's part of the reason why I started using the affirmations on my show, because there were moments, especially in that season, where you're absolutely right. That's what grounded us. Us repeating the truth of God's word and being in the practice of repeating the truth of God's word, even though our physical earthly circumstances didn't line up with that. That is kind of what kept us grounded, believing God at his word, even when it didn't feel that way.

[00:29:54] But I think even beyond that, one thing that I know was pivotal for me in that season was being very honest with God. That season, and even now, if I'm honest, thinking back to that season, it doesn't ever feel good. It's not like it's all resolved, and it probably won't be resolved until the other side of heaven, where I have a better understanding of why that happened. There's still pain there. It's not like it's all nicely wrapped up with a neat bow.

[00:30:21] And while the Lord has definitely redeemed some of those areas of our lives, there's still an empty bed in our house that our little boy is not in. There's still the brokenness of that season that we face on a daily basis as a family. But I think for me, it enabled me to be honest with God and tell God I was mad at him and to tell God that I was heartbroken and that I didn't understand what he was doing. And I think often what happens is we feel really good about praising the Lord in the good seasons.

[00:30:49] But it takes a deep level of faith to admit to God that you're mad at him. And I think, you know, in my own early relationships, one of the treasures of my relationship with my husband is being able to work through conflict where we can say as adults, we're disappointed in each other. And regardless of the intention, intention and outcome are not always the same thing. And I can look at my husband and say, I love you, but I'm very angry with you.

[00:31:18] And he can say that to me and we can hear each other out. I think in the same way as a father, you know, I can say to Father God, I'm mad at you. I don't like the way that you handle this. I don't like the way that this was allowed. And still allowing him to be in that dark space and bring light in, I think it changed my relationship with the Lord for the better. Because it's in those spaces where we can be brutally honest with the Lord and admit that we are upset with him.

[00:31:48] And that's how we heal, by inviting him into that brokenness. And, you know, even if you think about this in the context of parenting, you know, I have children that are, you know, they're young adults now. And they are learning to walk with the Lord on their own, in their own right and in their own relationship with him. And that means that they don't always make the same decisions that I would make if I was making all the decisions for them. And I have to respect that.

[00:32:11] But taking a step back, I would much rather them say to me, Mom, I'm really angry with you and allowing me to be present with them and to work through it with them versus them withdrawing and just not talking to me about it. And I think sometimes we forget that God is not just a father, but he's a good father. And he wants us to bring even the hard emotions to him. And so I think that's part of the reason why I created the resource that I have, because I want to teach people.

[00:32:39] We use the Psalms a lot in the devotional because the Psalms are full of anxiety and sorrow and suicide sometimes even or joy. Or, you know, there's the whole gamut of human emotions in there. But I want people to understand that we can take all of that, the good, bad, and the ugly before the Father and invite him into the process. And that's how we grow and go through those emotions to get to the other side. You know, it's not like God is afraid of our hard emotions. He knows our heart.

[00:33:07] He created us to be beings that have all those emotions. But sometimes for some reason we think that we can't take those to God. And that's part of what I want to teach people in this resource is that the good, bad, and the ugly, like I said, it's all part of our relationship with the Lord. Wow. So wise. And being able to take those hard emotions to the Lord is something that, like you said, many times we feel like we can't. But it's right there in Scripture. The Psalms are full of those emotions. So thank you for sharing that, Rachel.

[00:33:37] We have more to discuss about your resources and equipping Christians when we come back from this short break. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Rachel, this conversation has just been such a blessing.

[00:34:05] And you clearly have so much wisdom to share. And so I want to talk for the last few minutes of our time together about your resources. So we've been referencing Hearing Jesus. That's the daily devotional. And it's just, again, like I mentioned earlier, it's a small, beautifully made book. And so this would be a great resource for anyone, really.

[00:34:25] But talk a little bit more about your intentionality with how it is laid out and some of the features that specifically encourage readers to dive into the Word. What can they expect? Well, I wanted to create a resource that I needed, especially during busy seasons of motherhood. And while my kids are older now, throughout the years, there's been a lot of seasons where, despite my best intentions,

[00:34:50] I haven't necessarily had the time to sit down and read the Word as much as I would like or for as long as I would like. And yet I knew that in those seasons, often I would try to read different devotionals or different things that might, you know, only take a couple moments, but didn't really leave me necessarily with actual tools. And so what I wanted to do with this resource is create something that could be done in just a few moments a day, especially for those seasons of motherhood for women where, and maybe it's not even motherhood.

[00:35:19] Maybe it's a busy career season where you're on a deadline or something like that, where it only took a few moments, but it still left you with real truth. And what I mean by that is something tangible that you could read, you could understand easily, and you could make the real-world application to your daily life, whether that was, like I said before, an emotion or some practical resolution to something you might be struggling with.

[00:35:43] And then also I include a prayer because what I've heard from women all over the place is that they feel insecure about what it actually means to pray and what words to use and how do we do that, especially when we're praying about holds such weight emotionally. And so really it's a sample prayer of how to practically take those things before the Lord. What I hope to do is just give women a resource, even if they are solid in their time with the Lord.

[00:36:09] This is just an extra thing to, you know, maybe I hear from a lot of women, they're throwing it in their purse and they're reading it at the gym before they go for a run, or maybe on their lunch break they're reading it just as a quick connection point with the Lord. Really it's for you to use in whatever capacity you need, but to offer you an experiential moment. Because I really believe that it's not so much about how many Bible verses we're reading or how much time we're spending journaling. It's really about an authentic interaction with the Lord.

[00:36:37] That's what postures our heart for change. And, you know, the thing about the Lord that I love and what we see about him in Scripture over and over is he drew people in by his love. He met them where they were at, and often it was messy and chaotic and hard. And it was the people that were a little rough around the edges. And I appreciate that so much because that's where I am so many times, if I'm honest. I can be rough around the edges or I can be in a rush or I can be in my head.

[00:37:04] And yet over and over again, the Lord meets me in that place and pulls me back to him. And that's really what I hope to create for women in this devotional. It's not just another book for the shelf, but really an opportunity to connect with him in the middle of our busy lives. Yeah, I love that. I love that idea. And it is a great size to just put it in your purse because how many times when we have a little moment during the day that we just look at our phones and we scroll or something.

[00:37:31] And that is not edifying and we end up feeling icky or distracted. But how great would it be to have a resource on hand where that draws you into Scripture and the truth of God's voice? I love that. And you have podcasts as well, including Hearing Jesus for Kids. And this is such an important point. I'm a mom. I've got young kids. And with just how much information there is, this is something I think about a lot, there is so much confusion and opportunity for deception. And I guess that's the way it always has been.

[00:38:01] But I really feel it raising kids in this time. And so what are some resources or tips that you give to parents in order to disciple your own children to be able to hear God's voice? Absolutely. Well, you know, I was a children's pastor for a lot of years. And so that's a question that I've gotten so many times over the last decade or so.

[00:38:22] And I would say before we even talk about resources, I just want to remind parents that, you know, even if you're going to church on a regular basis, which in America, that means twice a month for most families. But that means even if you're going, say, every week or maybe you go on a Wednesday evening, at the most, that's just a couple hours that kids are in church. And so what that means is the majority of the time they're spent outside of church.

[00:38:46] And so I just want to remind parents that the best thing that you can do for your kids is to have and cultivate an authentic relationship with the Lord yourself, whether that means reading a devotional or being in the Word or doing things like handing out flowers on Memorial Day or whatever it is that the Lord's prompting you to do. As my kids have gotten older, I've realized that, you know, they don't necessarily remember all of the times we sat in a church service or a worship service or a mission trip we've taken.

[00:39:14] But they absolutely know those moments where they can look back and see the model of my husband and I hitting our knees and praying and asking the Lord for direction over and over again. And as I see my girls kind of grow into their own relationships with the Lord, I see a lot of that coming out with them. And so first and foremost, just like you would say to protect your own marriage and your marriage relationship is the best example for relationships, your own relationship with the Lord is the best example for your kids.

[00:39:42] So I absolutely say that we need to start there. But then beyond that, I think we need to be really honest about what the gospel does and does not say with our kids. And so I created the Hearing Jesus for Kids podcast as a companion to the series that we were doing. And so actually we have Matthew, Mark, and John. We're starting Luke in the fall. And I did that out of order because it's my belief that Luke and Acts are supposed to be done together. That's the way it was originally written. And so we're doing that this fall.

[00:40:12] But there is to date, I think, well over 100 episodes for kids that break down the truth of the gospels in very easy to understand digestible bite-sized pieces. And then we created family discussion guides where families can use that maybe around the dinner table or before devotion time at bedtime to help getting families talking. Because I think the next step in all of that is not just reading the word with your kids but explaining it to them.

[00:40:38] And, you know, there was a practice that we started during COVID when we were all locked in the house together and we had nothing else to do where we were literally saying, okay, I was serving as a children's pastor. My husband and I were involved in local children's ministry. And I wanted to see were we really teaching our kids well? Did they understand what we were teaching? And I was surprised to find out that they weren't. You know, we went through some familiar Bible study passages that I knew that they had heard in church.

[00:41:04] And when it really came down to what the heart of that lesson was, they were struggling to understand that. And so for me, that was a wake-up call because if my own kids were struggling, I knew that kids in our church were struggling or kids across America were struggling. And so I created the kids' podcast as a companion so that, you know, mom or dad can listen to, you know, Matthew Chapter 1. The kids can also listen to Matthew Chapter 1, and then they can all talk about it and learn from each other.

[00:41:29] And I will say there have been a lot of valuable lessons where my husband and I have been really humbled to hear the heart of maybe our 6-year-old at the time and hear what's in her heart and how she understands that and how the Lord is speaking to her. And I always try to remind parents that there's no junior version of the Holy Spirit. He is who he is. And when we meet Jesus and we come to know the Father, we also receive the Holy Spirit. And, yes, there's dynamics to that and, you know, the baptism of the Holy Spirit and all that.

[00:41:59] I don't want to get into all of that right now. But what I know is that the Holy Spirit has revealed things to our children that he's not revealed to us. And they've been able to teach us things in a very pure, sweet way. And so I just want to remind parents that the kids get the exposure to all of him, not just part of him or a junior version of him. And I think also when we get to a place where we recognize that we've messed up,

[00:42:23] it's been so humbling but so freeing to be able to go to our kids and say, you know what, I'm sorry, and I messed up. And mom and dad are figuring this out for the first time, too, and praying together. And I think just that honesty and that vulnerability really speaks to their heart where it helps them understand that it's okay to mess up and to give ourselves grace. Yeah, that is so wonderful. I can't believe that we're out of time. But, Rachel, the resources, the testimony that you have shared and the wisdom are just such a blessing.

[00:42:52] So, seriously, all of you listening, go to pointofview.net, click on the links under Rachel's picture, and you will see links for her books, her podcast, the resources for kids. Definitely check that out. Thanks for being with us today, Rachel. And don't go anywhere if you're listening to Point of View because we have another hour right after this short break. Where does moral truth come from? According to 58% of Americans, individuals determine moral truth.

[00:43:19] A quarter of Generation Z says society determines moral truth, and morality can even change over time. Only 42% of Americans believe that truth comes from God. I don't know about you, but I find these numbers extremely troubling. It really is a crisis of truth, and that crisis has consequences. Look at society. Evil is called good. Good called evil. People with biblical beliefs are called bigots, or worse, they're canceled.

[00:43:48] But there is hope. The Bible promises the truth will set us free, and that's why Point of View is relentless in our commitment to the ultimate source of moral truth, God's Word. At Point of View, we know that God's truth is eternal, and if we stand together, we can help more Americans apply His truth in their daily life. Help Americans find truth again by giving at pointofview.net,

[00:44:15] or call 1-800-347-5151. That's pointofview.net, and 800-347-5151. Point of View will continue after this.