Point of View May 24, 2024 – Hour 2 : Weekend Edition

[00:00:00] And welcome back to Point of View.

[00:00:21] I'm Merrill Matthews sitting in for Kirby Anderson today and we are doing our weekend

[00:00:26] edition, Friday weekend edition where we cover a number of the current issues out there that

[00:00:32] are facing the country in studio with me, Liberty McCarter.

[00:00:35] She is with Point of View and she's also the host of the Know Why podcast.

[00:00:40] And we did have Kelly McLean on with us.

[00:00:43] She is the, she was the Deputy Director of Government Affairs for First Liberty Institute

[00:00:49] and she has stepped off.

[00:00:50] And now we have Leah Patterson with First Liberty Institute.

[00:00:53] Leah, thank you for joining us by phone.

[00:00:56] My pleasure.

[00:00:57] Thank you for having me.

[00:00:58] Well, you know, we were, we had Kelly talking a bit about just some of the cases that First

[00:01:03] Liberty is working on right now.

[00:01:05] And it highlights this issue of people, especially the, you represent people who are not Christian.

[00:01:11] Sometimes they're Jewish, sometimes they're Muslim or something, but people of faith

[00:01:16] who are just getting engaged.

[00:01:18] They're not standing by and having the government do various things that just are inappropriate

[00:01:23] for them.

[00:01:24] Christians are getting engaged and stopping it, just addressing some of the issues and

[00:01:28] challenges that we have.

[00:01:29] And Liberty, you've been, you've got a podcast, I think, coming out about that issue.

[00:01:33] Yes, we do.

[00:01:34] So our recent series, our most latest series on the Know Why podcast is on political engagement.

[00:01:41] So if you are a young person or anybody listening, but our podcast is specifically geared towards

[00:01:49] young adults, or maybe you know somebody that's kind of in that season of life, I would really

[00:01:54] recommend listening to the latest series.

[00:01:56] We have had so many good interviews with people who have covered a range of topics, everything

[00:02:03] from really down into the details of how do I make sure I'm registered to vote?

[00:02:09] How can I research information about my candidate?

[00:02:12] Because of course, everybody focuses on the presidential candidate in 2024 or in election

[00:02:17] years, but there are a lot of local elections that are very important.

[00:02:21] How do I contact Congress?

[00:02:22] And then we've talked about other things to kind of bigger picture of, you know, how can

[00:02:27] I balance my values and my faith with political engagement?

[00:02:32] We actually, our next episode is coming out on Wednesday.

[00:02:35] It is with Nathan Shackelford, who's with First Liberty Institute as well.

[00:02:39] And he talks about some of the latest cases and some of ways that young adults can get

[00:02:44] involved.

[00:02:45] So there are a lot of great resources in that series, which you can find anywhere you listen

[00:02:50] to podcasts.

[00:02:51] But the reason we were motivated to do a series on political engagement is because a Harvard

[00:02:56] poll was released in December that found that in this year, in 2024, young adults are actually

[00:03:04] less likely to vote in the presidential election than they were in 2020.

[00:03:09] So we saw this issue where a lot of young adults are just demotivated to get involved.

[00:03:15] And a lot of it does have to do with the candidates.

[00:03:18] I think people maybe aren't as excited about having Biden versus Trump again.

[00:03:23] But as we go over in the Know Why podcast series, there are so many ways that you can

[00:03:29] be engaged, not just during election years, but in between.

[00:03:33] And as we've seen with some of these First Liberty cases as well, it's really, really

[00:03:37] important to stand up for your beliefs and to get engaged in the civic process.

[00:03:41] And you know, Liberty, the genius of First Liberty has been so engaged in religious liberty

[00:03:47] across the country on so many issues.

[00:03:50] And the point you're making about Christians being engaged back in the 90s and 2000s, I

[00:03:56] was in Washington all the time, frequently going to members of Congress.

[00:04:01] And back in the 90s, when the Christian coalition was such a powerful force, you could sometimes

[00:04:06] go in and sit down with a Republican member of Congress and you're talking about a particular

[00:04:10] issue.

[00:04:11] And they would say, well, where is the Christian coalition on this issue?

[00:04:14] Because I don't want to get on the wrong side of the Christian coalition.

[00:04:18] They were such a powerful force.

[00:04:20] The Eagle Forum was as well.

[00:04:22] And so it's time we have these groups out there.

[00:04:27] I think it just makes a great deal of difference in being engaged.

[00:04:31] And of course, Leah, that's what First Liberty does is you're engaged and you're making a

[00:04:36] difference.

[00:04:37] Well, thank you.

[00:04:38] It's such a pleasure to be here to fight for religious liberty and fight for the rights

[00:04:46] of everyone to express their faith freely and to live according to it.

[00:04:50] But, you know, we can't we can't do that unless we have clients who are willing to stand up.

[00:04:55] Yes.

[00:04:56] And then, of course, one of the ways you get engaged is voting in the elections.

[00:04:59] And we've talked earlier, Leah, about some of the polls that Biden has.

[00:05:06] The Biden administration is not pleased with the campaign since he is trailing Trump and

[00:05:11] has been in for several weeks now.

[00:05:13] It's not an anomaly anymore.

[00:05:15] And in some of the swing states, Trump is leading fairly handily.

[00:05:19] And that goes to a piece that I wrote for The Hill this week in my Tuesday column that

[00:05:24] comes out in The Hill about about the swing states and just an anomaly here that's just

[00:05:30] a little odd in that the swing states, almost all of Michigan's more of a tie, but almost

[00:05:37] all the swing states are showing.

[00:05:39] And that's about seven of them that we think of as swing states where you talk about Georgia,

[00:05:43] South Carolina, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Nevada and Arizona.

[00:05:49] In five of those states, you've got a Senate Democrat running for you where you got three

[00:05:56] that are Democrats are incumbent running for re-election.

[00:06:00] And in two more of them, you've got a Senate up Senate election up for grabs.

[00:06:04] So you've got five swing states with a Senate election as well.

[00:06:09] And Senate elections are statewide, like the presidential election, like the governor's

[00:06:13] race.

[00:06:14] And so it's interesting to go and see what polling is going on there.

[00:06:18] And when I went and looked at this in the average of polls in those five swing states

[00:06:23] with a Senate election, you have the Democrats, Democratic Senate candidates is leading in

[00:06:29] all of them and some fairly strong leads in there.

[00:06:33] And I find this just sort of interesting in that a state that has Trump leading in the

[00:06:39] polls as president would have a Democratic Senate candidate leading in the polls as well.

[00:06:46] And that's got to make it look a little different because that raises the question if those if

[00:06:51] those polls, those trends hold by the time we get to November 5th, if you're a Democrat

[00:06:56] going into the polling booth, do you say, I like my Democratic senator, I'm going to

[00:07:02] vote.

[00:07:03] Do you also vote for a Republican?

[00:07:04] Do you cross over and do what we call a swing vote?

[00:07:08] Or do you come in and say, well, I'm going to vote for Trump.

[00:07:11] I'm really encouraged about him.

[00:07:14] Do I still vote for the Democratic Senate candidate or do I vote for the Republican

[00:07:18] instead?

[00:07:20] And that that makes it it makes it a little hard to determine how these states are going

[00:07:24] to go.

[00:07:25] I'm really glad you highlighted this because it's something I hadn't thought about this

[00:07:28] year.

[00:07:29] But it is interesting to see that Trump is trending positively in those states where

[00:07:34] a Democratic senator is also trending positively.

[00:07:37] And we were talking about this off the air a minute ago, but I think in the old days,

[00:07:42] so to speak, you used to have more people who are willing to split their vote.

[00:07:46] And but things are so polarized now.

[00:07:48] You don't see that split ticket voting as often.

[00:07:51] It is very much you're either in this camp or this camp.

[00:07:53] So I'm interested to see how it's going to affect those swing states.

[00:07:57] Yes, it's the trend on that is down.

[00:08:00] I think I've got the number in there.

[00:08:01] I think it's like three point four percent.

[00:08:02] It's a very small percentage of people who really do a split ticket vote where they'll

[00:08:08] vote for, say, a Republican president and a Democratic senator or vice versa.

[00:08:13] And so you look at this and you ask the question whether or not do the do these

[00:08:17] Democratic Senate candidates ultimately people coming in voting for the Democratic

[00:08:22] senators that ultimately swing the vote for Biden?

[00:08:25] Or is it the other way around?

[00:08:26] Will support for Trump end up swinging and getting more Republicans in there and

[00:08:31] giving Republicans control of the Senate?

[00:08:33] And I don't think we know that right now.

[00:08:36] It's one of the anomalies of this election.

[00:08:38] Stay with us. We'll be back on point of view in just a minute.

[00:08:58] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:05] What does I think about artificial intelligence and this new wave of technology?

[00:09:09] Mustafa Solomon is the author of the new book, The Coming Wave.

[00:09:12] He had the idea of having an AI computer write the prologue to his book.

[00:09:16] Here is what the AI computer wrote in the annals of human history.

[00:09:21] There are moments that stand out as turning points where the fate of humanity hangs in

[00:09:25] the balance. The discovery of fire, the invention of the wheel, the harnessing of

[00:09:29] electricity. All of these were moments that transform human civilization, altering the

[00:09:34] course of history forever.

[00:09:36] The AI computer went on to argue that we stand at the brink of another such moment as

[00:09:40] we face the rise of a coming wave of technology that includes both advanced AI and

[00:09:45] biotechnology. They discuss the potential benefits of these technologies, saying with

[00:09:50] AI, we could unlock the secrets of the universe, cure diseases that have long eluded

[00:09:54] us. With biotechnology, we could engineer life to tackle diseases and transform

[00:10:00] agriculture, creating a world that is healthier and more sustainable.

[00:10:04] But the AI computer also mentioned the potential dangers of these technologies.

[00:10:08] With AI, we could create systems that are beyond our control and find ourselves at the

[00:10:13] mercy of algorithms we don't understand.

[00:10:15] With biotechnology, we could manipulate the very building blocks of life, potentially

[00:10:20] creating unintended consequences for both individuals and entire ecosystems.

[00:10:26] This is a good summary of these powerful new technologies.

[00:10:28] Perhaps you can also see why I encourage Christian students to consider a career in

[00:10:32] science and technology.

[00:10:34] We need Christian values shaping the future of this new wave of technology.

[00:10:39] I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:47] For a free booklet on a biblical view on big data, go to Viewpoints dot info slash data.

[00:10:54] That's Viewpoints dot info slash data.

[00:10:58] You're listening to Point of View, your listener supported source for truth.

[00:11:04] And we're back on Point of View, joining me in studio, Liberty McCarter.

[00:11:08] She is the host of the Know Why podcast and joining me by phone, Leah Patterson.

[00:11:14] She is with First Liberty Institute.

[00:11:17] And you know, Leah, we all all of us, all three of us have to speak in public

[00:11:21] occasionally. We have to do that.

[00:11:23] And you sometimes make a mistake.

[00:11:25] I certainly will make them here on the air at times.

[00:11:27] You just get your words tang tangled and you make a mistake.

[00:11:31] But my goodness, President Biden makes so many of them.

[00:11:36] And he spoke to the NAACP this past week and he's reading a teleprompter.

[00:11:41] So this is an ad lib.

[00:11:42] He's reading a teleprompter.

[00:11:44] And the White House had to release his remarks.

[00:11:50] They had a copy of the rocks beforehand.

[00:11:52] They had to release an amended copy of his remarks.

[00:11:55] And I've never seen this before.

[00:11:57] Maybe I've just missed it.

[00:11:59] But they've gone through and they have the the statements that he made and they've

[00:12:04] X those out and then put the correct thing that he meant to say there.

[00:12:08] And some of these are pretty big mistakes.

[00:12:10] And we have a copy of this on the Point of View website, if you'd like to see it, the

[00:12:14] White House press release on it.

[00:12:16] But he said, for instance, I protected and expanded the Affordable Care Act, saving

[00:12:21] millions of millions of families, 800000 in Prim.

[00:12:26] He stops there.

[00:12:27] He didn't get it out right.

[00:12:28] But then he said, no, eight thousand.

[00:12:30] Then he got it down to actually 800 in a year in premiums.

[00:12:35] So he went from saving families eight hundred thousand dollars a year to eight

[00:12:39] thousand dollars a year to eight hundred dollars a year in premiums.

[00:12:43] And he made other mistakes as well, saying he was vice president during the

[00:12:46] pandemic. That was not the case.

[00:12:49] He's made a couple of other.

[00:12:51] Well, Fox News had a release there with nine different gaffes in there.

[00:12:57] Sort of major little word stumbles or other things that claims that aren't true.

[00:13:03] And you just don't know what to do with this.

[00:13:05] But this is one of the reasons why I think Biden is not doing well in the polls as

[00:13:10] people look at this and they just see an elderly man who is struggling in many

[00:13:16] cases, even with a teleprompter.

[00:13:18] Yes, I you know, it was really surprising to see the press release from the White

[00:13:22] House, just one from a PR perspective, how if you go to the link, you can

[00:13:26] actually see the words and mistakes he made cross out.

[00:13:31] You know, I was wondering just why didn't they just fix it in the transcript?

[00:13:34] But hey, there it's transparent and you can hear the mistakes he made.

[00:13:39] And so, again, everyone makes mistakes when they speak sometimes.

[00:13:42] But I think we all know that this has been more and more of an issue.

[00:13:45] And I think it is making Americans doubt whether or not he's truly competent or

[00:13:51] able to stay in office for four more years.

[00:13:54] And maybe that's reflected in some of the polling we're seeing.

[00:13:57] You know, when when attorneys get up and trial, they have to give closing

[00:14:01] arguments. In fact, they'll be giving closing arguments and the Trump trial on

[00:14:05] Tuesday. And it's so important that the attorney I'm not an attorney, so I'm

[00:14:10] just sort of thinking this is the case that the attorney comes on confident, the

[00:14:16] clear, thoughtful and so forth.

[00:14:19] And if that doesn't happen, I suspect the jury begins to wonder if that case is

[00:14:23] that strong. And that would be true with the president as well.

[00:14:26] What are your thoughts?

[00:14:28] Well, that's fair enough, and it's very important in laws and politics to be

[00:14:34] clear and confident in your message.

[00:14:36] But, you know, mistakes happen.

[00:14:38] You just have to correct them.

[00:14:40] It certainly is par for the course of President Biden.

[00:14:44] It is. But now attorneys, when you stand up and you're giving the closing

[00:14:48] arguments, sometimes I see they have yellow pads.

[00:14:50] Sometimes they're just speaking off the cuff, but they do a very good job.

[00:14:54] How does that work?

[00:14:56] Well, it really depends on each different lawyer.

[00:14:59] Every lawyer has a different approach, the way that works best for them.

[00:15:03] But I can tell you that closing arguments and any court arguments are very well

[00:15:06] practiced. I suspect that'll be the case in Trump's closing arguments as well.

[00:15:12] Do you what are your thoughts about how Biden's let's just say age is

[00:15:18] affecting the voters?

[00:15:21] He's been trying to reach out to younger people, and yet it just doesn't seem to

[00:15:27] be working. Younger people tend to vote more Democratic.

[00:15:29] They tend to be more progressive, but they don't seem to be just hearing his

[00:15:35] message and aligning with him.

[00:15:39] Well, that's not exactly surprising.

[00:15:43] I think when someone in I don't know what I would take away from the way Biden

[00:15:50] typically performs in speeches is that I would not describe him as particularly in

[00:15:56] touch with the younger generation.

[00:15:58] Yes, I think, you know, again, that's why what we mentioned a few minutes ago is

[00:16:03] that fewer young people are planning to vote in the 2024 election than voted in

[00:16:11] 2020. And even though young people do really lean left and so what they are seeing

[00:16:18] now with surveys and research that they're doing, I was just reading a few more

[00:16:22] headlines on this.

[00:16:23] Young people today are a lot more motivated by issues, but not really inspired by

[00:16:28] particular politicians.

[00:16:30] And for a lot of people, when we think about this, when we talk about these issues

[00:16:35] on the No Why podcast, a lot of our listeners, this might be their first time voting

[00:16:38] in an election. And so the only elections they really can remember are Trump and

[00:16:44] Hillary. Maybe they remember that.

[00:16:46] And then Trump versus Biden.

[00:16:48] And here we go again.

[00:16:50] And so that's not a super depending on, you know, you may disagree depending on your

[00:16:56] political persuasion.

[00:16:57] But I think for a lot of young people on both sides of the aisle, those aren't

[00:17:01] particularly exciting times to be voting.

[00:17:04] And I don't think that either candidate resonates with a lot of young people.

[00:17:08] So it really for them, if they get to the polls, is going to come down to the issues.

[00:17:13] And so, again, that's why we've been talking about it on the No Why podcast is to

[00:17:16] really help young people understand, because when it comes to the politicians, they're

[00:17:22] just not really inspiring the young people in this presidential election.

[00:17:25] You know, Leah, we were talking during the first hour about inflation and its impact

[00:17:31] upon people. And generally speaking, younger people have lower incomes than older

[00:17:36] people. And that inflation just hits them harder than than it does many people who've

[00:17:43] spent a career and now are in the top of their income gains.

[00:17:48] How is inflation affecting you?

[00:17:52] Well, I mean, it's very noticeable and just the cost of living and groceries is

[00:17:56] skyrocketing. And, you know, that does make an impact on a lot of people.

[00:18:02] It certainly does, and especially on people who are in marginal incomes.

[00:18:06] And one of the changes that has been developing here over the past really, I think

[00:18:11] you'd argue mostly starting with Trump is that lower income people, blue collar

[00:18:16] workers, people without college educations tended to vote Democratic.

[00:18:20] That is shifting right now, whereas more educated people and especially women tend to

[00:18:25] be more Democratic.

[00:18:27] And the middle income, lower income people without college educations are moving more

[00:18:32] towards the Republican Party.

[00:18:34] Yeah, I think we're definitely seeing that elite class lean left.

[00:18:39] But what's interesting is that with a lot of the practices, practically speaking, even

[00:18:45] though they vote very progressive or, you know, in public will tout progressive

[00:18:52] ideology. A lot of the people that we would say, maybe the coastal elites, the people

[00:18:57] that we think of as highly educated and affluent and voting Democrat in practice,

[00:19:04] they are actually implementing a lot of conservative, you know, lifestyle choices.

[00:19:11] And earlier we were talking about the inflation and everything was going up,

[00:19:16] including the cost of weddings.

[00:19:18] And so a book that I didn't mention then, but I did want to mention is called Get

[00:19:22] Married by Brad Wilcox.

[00:19:25] And it has so much research about just the statistical benefits of marriage.

[00:19:31] And one of the things he notes is even the progressive Democratic voting elites, when

[00:19:37] it comes to their marriage habits and their saving habits and even their child rearing

[00:19:41] are actually very conservative in their choices because they see that that's actually

[00:19:46] how that's what makes sense.

[00:19:48] It's kind of those common sense things.

[00:19:50] And but you don't have to go to college to have common sense.

[00:19:53] And so, you know, I think there are a lot of people who are saying, yeah, that's what

[00:19:56] we've been saying all along.

[00:19:58] In fact, college may actually undermine some common sense.

[00:20:01] But, you know, when you talk about that for people, that's one of the things we talk

[00:20:07] about Hispanics and blacks is that they tended to be socially somewhat conservative.

[00:20:12] They were pro family.

[00:20:14] They were pro work.

[00:20:15] They wanted to save it. But they they tended to vote for progressives and others that

[00:20:20] just had a different sort of politics, even with abortion and so forth.

[00:20:24] I mean, blacks and Hispanics tend to be fairly conservative and what we'd call family

[00:20:28] values people, at least within their home life.

[00:20:31] Well, I think what some of the research that I've seen is that in a lot of places where

[00:20:35] maybe people didn't anticipate it, you're seeing minority populations who are

[00:20:40] deciding to vote Republican.

[00:20:42] And so they're seeing that that actually makes more sense.

[00:20:44] And maybe they're also tired of the identity politics they constantly hear from the

[00:20:48] left. When we come back from the break, we're going to talk about Pena Dexter's new

[00:20:52] commentary out there.

[00:20:54] Not enough babies, not enough babies.

[00:20:58] The world is actually seeing a population decline in various places.

[00:21:02] And Pena hits on that because we've got a reproductive reproduction problem here.

[00:21:08] China's got a big reproduction problem.

[00:21:11] So when we come back, you will turn on Pena Dexter's.

[00:21:14] Her commentary will actually be airing here for those looking online, listening online.

[00:21:18] It'll be airing in the next segment.

[00:21:21] But stay with us. And point of view, we'll be back in just a minute.

[00:21:31] It almost seems like we live in a different world from many people in positions of

[00:21:35] authority. They say men can be women and women, men.

[00:21:40] People are prosecuted differently or not at all, depending on their politics.

[00:21:45] Criminals are more valued and rewarded than law abiding citizens.

[00:21:50] It's so overwhelming, so demoralizing.

[00:21:53] You feel like giving up, but we can't.

[00:21:56] We shouldn't. We must not.

[00:21:58] As Winston Churchill said to Britain in the darkest days of World War Two, never give

[00:22:03] in, never give in, never, never, never, never yield to force, never yield to the

[00:22:09] apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.

[00:22:13] And that's what we say to you today.

[00:22:15] This is not a time to give in, but to step up and join Point of View in providing

[00:22:21] clarity in the chaos.

[00:22:23] We can't do it alone.

[00:22:24] But together with God's help, we will overcome the darkness.

[00:22:30] Invest in Biblical Clarity today at Point of View.net or call 1-800-347-5151.

[00:22:38] Point of View.net and 800-347-5151.

[00:22:48] Point of View will continue after this.

[00:22:57] You are listening to Point of View.

[00:23:02] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the

[00:23:07] management or staff of this station.

[00:23:10] And now here again, Dr.

[00:23:12] Meryl Matthews.

[00:23:13] And we're back with Liberty McCarter in studio.

[00:23:16] She is with Point of View and Leah Patterson with First Liberty Institute.

[00:23:20] And she is senior counsel there.

[00:23:23] And Liberty, you excuse me, Leah, you are working on an issue with the Knights of

[00:23:28] Columbus, I think.

[00:23:31] That's right, we're really excited, actually, to share this win that we got

[00:23:35] yesterday, right in advance of Memorial Day.

[00:23:38] So our client in the Richmond, Virginia area is a Knights of Columbus chapter for

[00:23:45] 60 years.

[00:23:46] They've held a Memorial Day mass in the Poplar Grove National Cemetery.

[00:23:52] But last year, the National Park Service told them they could not have that in the

[00:23:57] in the cemetery anymore.

[00:23:59] So, you know, we well, because they changed their policy to prohibit religious

[00:24:05] services because they were prohibiting demonstrations.

[00:24:08] Now, the rules also allowed parades and festivals to receive permits, but not

[00:24:14] religious services anymore.

[00:24:17] So we, you know, figured this might have been some kind of mistake applied again this

[00:24:22] past year, got denied again and filed a lawsuit last week.

[00:24:27] Well, we were scheduled to be in court yesterday to ask the court to issue an

[00:24:32] emergency order that would allow our clients to continue this long standing Memorial

[00:24:37] Day tradition. But the National Park Service decided they didn't want to fight and

[00:24:42] issued our clients the permit.

[00:24:44] So they'll be back on Memorial Day.

[00:24:46] Good. Yeah, that's great.

[00:24:48] Again, just so crazy that festivals and parades are allowed, but people who want to

[00:24:57] honor our fallen servicemen in the National Cemetery by saying mass aren't able to do

[00:25:05] that. So it's just it seems a little pointed maybe at religious practice.

[00:25:13] Well, that was certainly our argument.

[00:25:15] The policy was not very well thought out, I don't think.

[00:25:19] And we're just so excited that our clients will get to get to continue to conduct this

[00:25:25] wonderful tradition.

[00:25:27] Explain again their justification for denying it.

[00:25:31] Well, you know what the National Park Service pointed to was the idea that their

[00:25:36] policies are designed to preserve the reverent nature of a cemetery by excluding

[00:25:43] various types of outside events.

[00:25:45] But I can't imagine anything more in keeping with the solemn and memorial nature of a

[00:25:51] cemetery than to have this Memorial Day mass, which honors the fallen and prays for

[00:25:57] them and their family.

[00:25:58] And our client has 60 years of history demonstrating how well this fits in with the

[00:26:06] purpose of a national cemetery.

[00:26:08] I would think a Memorial Day mass would be sort of the least disruptive or chaotic kind

[00:26:13] of event.

[00:26:15] Definitely, definitely.

[00:26:16] And so we're excited they get to come back.

[00:26:20] I was on The Weekend Edition last week with Kirby and Jeff Matier from First Liberty

[00:26:24] Institute. And so I'm really glad to hear this update because Jeff was telling us about

[00:26:29] the case and I don't think it had been resolved yet.

[00:26:32] But his point was saying, yeah, apparently we're not allowed to have religious services

[00:26:37] or prayers in a cemetery.

[00:26:39] And just how ridiculous that is, because that's what people do in cemeteries all the

[00:26:44] time. And I said, don't they sometimes get, you know, there are just so many religious

[00:26:52] activities that for people of faith are just integrated into our lives.

[00:26:57] And so when you try to start separating that out from the activities that we can do in

[00:27:01] public, then it really is limiting and it really does feel like an attack on religious

[00:27:07] practice specifically, just because, again, back to common sense, there's not any in some

[00:27:13] of these attacks against people of faith, in my opinion.

[00:27:16] Leah, explain a little bit about how you at First Liberty go about deciding which cases

[00:27:21] you're going to take. Do you have enough attorneys to cover most or all of the cases

[00:27:27] that reach out to you?

[00:27:28] Or do you say these look like they work for us, these do not work for us?

[00:27:33] Or is there so many out there you just can't handle them all?

[00:27:38] Well, unfortunately, it's the latter.

[00:27:40] There are so many cases across the country that deal with these kinds of issues that

[00:27:46] we have to be careful and selective in evaluating who we can help and who we can't.

[00:27:51] And really what we try to do is get involved where there's the most opportunity for us

[00:27:57] to make as much difference for as many people as we can.

[00:28:01] And that will depend from the facts of each particular case to their location and the

[00:28:07] courts and where those issues are situated and how everything is legally.

[00:28:14] And, you know, we do as much as we can.

[00:28:17] Do people reach out to you directly or do they go through?

[00:28:19] Do they have attorneys in their area?

[00:28:21] And the attorney says, you know, I know First Liberty Institute.

[00:28:23] Let me let me call them and see if they would be interested in taking this case.

[00:28:27] How do they go about doing that?

[00:28:30] Oh, they do it all sorts of ways.

[00:28:31] So we have a contact form on our website, firstliberty.org, where people will reach out

[00:28:36] to us directly with their issues.

[00:28:38] But we also have many folks who know about us and will refer us to us.

[00:28:42] Many folks who know about us and will refer people to us where it seems like a good fit.

[00:28:46] And if I can also just add, Leah, First Liberty offers many resources for anybody as well

[00:28:54] that are free. So even if maybe you can't take every single case, there are a lot of

[00:28:58] ways that people can preventatively stand up for their rights.

[00:29:01] And you all are on the front lines of educating people about those and offering those free

[00:29:06] resources. Isn't that right?

[00:29:09] Yes, that is right.

[00:29:10] We have a lot of different resource kits on our website that provide a lot of good

[00:29:15] information for someone who wants to know about what their rights are in a lot of

[00:29:19] different contexts. And that's a great place for people to start.

[00:29:22] You know, the people who are looking at what the Supreme Court decides to choose are the

[00:29:27] cases they decide to accept.

[00:29:29] You sometimes see they don't accept the case or they have rejected several cases along

[00:29:33] one line. And the commentary is they're waiting to find that case that's really a good

[00:29:38] definitive case that's going to have some clarity and provide just some clarity in the

[00:29:43] ruling. Is that essentially what you're doing?

[00:29:46] I mean, you may have if you have 10 cases of somebody saying I've been discriminated

[00:29:50] here against in some say at school or something of that nature.

[00:29:53] And you look at it and say, well, this this is the one that looks like it's the most it's

[00:29:57] the most clear cut and the one that we have the best chance of being able to move forward

[00:30:01] with. Is that that's sort of the process?

[00:30:04] You know, I think that's a fair characterization.

[00:30:07] And the Supreme Court's weighing a lot of different questions when they're looking at

[00:30:11] potential cases to take.

[00:30:12] And at the end of the day, we want to make the most difference that we can.

[00:30:17] And that's what we look for.

[00:30:20] And what are the cases you have coming up in the fall?

[00:30:22] Do you have some important ones coming up sometime soon?

[00:30:26] Well, we we've been very, very busy, so we have all sorts of cases, cases coming out.

[00:30:32] I know one of one of our cases working on right now is a school board member in

[00:30:38] Arizona who's been told by the other school board members that she cannot read

[00:30:44] scripture at school board meetings.

[00:30:46] So we're in the process of litigating that case and moving towards a decision.

[00:30:50] We'll probably have a hearing over the course of the summer.

[00:30:54] We'll see what happens there.

[00:30:55] I think that's so interesting because that's something that Kirby talks about a lot on

[00:30:59] point of view is there are so many ways for people to get involved and to stand up for

[00:31:05] your values. And one of those ways that I know several point of view listeners have

[00:31:09] been inspired to do is to run for the school boards and get involved, because

[00:31:14] that's a way that you can make a difference for the children in your community.

[00:31:18] And so obviously here's somebody who feels passionately about that.

[00:31:22] And yet she's being attacked for it sounds like living out her faith as she's on the

[00:31:27] school board. So I'm glad to see that for celebrity is stepping in there.

[00:31:30] You know, it's one of the it's a good point because people may look at this and say,

[00:31:33] well, I don't have any knowledge about how to run for Congress or run for the state

[00:31:38] house. But you don't have to start at the big steps.

[00:31:41] You can take little steps going to the school board, city council, other things of that

[00:31:45] nature. And some city councils will have advisory boards or committees that start them

[00:31:50] out on environment in the city or trash or other things that just allows people to sort

[00:31:55] of dip their toe in, get a sense of what it takes.

[00:31:59] Also begin to make connections because connections are really important in those

[00:32:03] things and begin to see how that the whole process works and begin to make an

[00:32:08] influence just at the local level before they move farther.

[00:32:11] Yes. And so, again, I know I've talked about our recent series on the Know Why

[00:32:15] podcast, but I would encourage people to listen to that.

[00:32:19] We've for the last several weeks we've been talking about political engagement and

[00:32:22] there are a few episodes that really go into detail for people who are wanting to

[00:32:27] take those steps because so often we focus we focus on the big picture, the national

[00:32:32] news. But if you want to make an impact on the people around you and you want to serve

[00:32:37] them well and you want to make a difference that really does touch lives in a very

[00:32:41] tangible way, getting involved locally is the way to do that.

[00:32:45] So there are so many ways to do that.

[00:32:47] So and resources.

[00:32:49] So I encourage people to check out Know Why podcast on that series and then look for

[00:32:52] ways to get involved in your community.

[00:32:54] You know, we've been teasing people about the teasing, the upcoming Pentateuch commentary,

[00:33:01] which will be coming up for those listening online.

[00:33:04] But it's looking at not enough babies and population is really it's a demographic

[00:33:09] problem that's affecting an awful lot of countries.

[00:33:12] And that could have influences in just a whole range of ways, including the expansion

[00:33:18] of immigration and other things.

[00:33:20] So it's a it's a big issue.

[00:33:21] So when we come back, we're going to go to Pena's commentary.

[00:33:24] You can also look at that online.

[00:33:26] We also have links to all the articles that we've been discussing today.

[00:33:30] So I'd encourage you to go there to pull those down, look at those and then be able

[00:33:35] to consume them.

[00:33:36] We'll be back on point of view for our last segment in just a minute.

[00:33:40] The fact that the fertility rate is falling worldwide have government leaders worried

[00:34:00] As workforces shrink, economic growth slows and companies and government entities fail

[00:34:05] to sufficiently fund pensions.

[00:34:06] Demographers are scrambling to offer explanations and solutions.

[00:34:10] The fertility rate has to do with the number of babies a woman has over her lifetime.

[00:34:14] It is believed that for the first time, fertility has dropped below global replacement.

[00:34:18] There are many reasons.

[00:34:20] Longer lifespans with more children surviving into adulthood.

[00:34:23] Women's higher education levels, women's greater participation in the workforce.

[00:34:27] Economic uncertainty beginning with the 2008 financial crisis.

[00:34:31] The Wall Street Journal points to another factor, a second demographic transition.

[00:34:35] A society wide reorientation toward individualism that puts less emphasis on marriage

[00:34:41] and parenthood and makes fewer or no children more acceptable.

[00:34:44] Melissa Carney, an economist at the University of Maryland, told the Wall Street Journal

[00:34:49] that raising children is no more expensive now than in the past.

[00:34:52] She says parents simply have different perspectives and perceived constraints.

[00:34:56] Professor Carney, the author of a recent book, The Two-Parent Privilege,

[00:34:59] points out that highly educated parents spend more time with their children than in the past

[00:35:05] and therefore may want fewer of them.

[00:35:07] She says the intensity of parenting is a constraint.

[00:35:10] Another scholar with the same last name spelled differently is the American Enterprise Institute's

[00:35:15] Timothy Carney.

[00:35:16] His book is Family Unfriendly, How Our Culture Made Raising Kids Much Harder Than It Needs To Be.

[00:35:21] He and his wife have five children.

[00:35:23] Tim Carney's recent Washington Post op-ed recommends families have at least four children.

[00:35:28] He writes, there's nothing high quality about the intensive parenting that is typical

[00:35:32] in today's middle and upper classes.

[00:35:34] He recommends letting kids off the leash, ditching the daily after school race in favor

[00:35:39] of independent play because it's fun, less exhausting and helps children learn to cope

[00:35:44] with stressors like when little brother smashes your record breaking Lego tower.

[00:35:49] For Point of View, I'm Penna Dexter.

[00:35:55] You're listening to Point of View, your listener supported source for truth.

[00:36:01] And we're back for our final segment on Point of View today.

[00:36:03] And Liberty, Penna Dexter's commentary is focusing on a low fertility rate and that's

[00:36:09] actually a very important topic.

[00:36:12] It is.

[00:36:13] And the thing is, this isn't just happening in the West or in the United States.

[00:36:17] This is happening all around the world.

[00:36:19] And it has so many implications, including for workforces, economic growth.

[00:36:26] You are having and this is happening dramatically in China, which I think you

[00:36:31] mentioned earlier.

[00:36:32] But you are having an aging society where there are too few young people, young adults

[00:36:39] to actually take care of their aging parents and grandparents.

[00:36:42] And so this is something that the entire world is dealing with.

[00:36:47] And it really is a fertility crisis because we're not making enough children globally to

[00:36:54] continue the population.

[00:36:56] It affects many things because I'm a baby boomer.

[00:36:58] And right now, the the general assessment is that about 10,000 baby boomers a day drop

[00:37:06] out of the workforce, retire.

[00:37:08] And those are people who are going to be going on Medicare and Social Security.

[00:37:11] So we need younger people out there working to being able to pay the Social Security

[00:37:16] payroll tax and Medicare payroll tax so that seniors can get that Social Security and

[00:37:20] Medicare.

[00:37:21] So that's one aspect.

[00:37:22] But it's also an economy can't grow if there aren't people there working.

[00:37:26] Right.

[00:37:27] And, you know, there are all these implications that I think people maybe aren't aware of.

[00:37:32] But what interests me is the cultural attitude, because you would think when you have all

[00:37:38] these reports and studies coming out that there is a fertility crisis, that young couples

[00:37:43] maybe would be encouraged to have more children or to start having children earlier.

[00:37:48] But we're actually seeing the opposite.

[00:37:50] And, you know, Leah, I'd be interested to get your perspective as well, because we're

[00:37:54] both millennials and there's actually a trend among millennials to not have kids for

[00:38:01] one reason.

[00:38:02] They cite is because of the environment and environmental concerns.

[00:38:06] And these are things that were kind of just beaten into our conscious from a young age.

[00:38:11] And, you know, I grew up in a family that was very life affirming.

[00:38:16] But even the people around me, I would hear growing up these concerns about climate

[00:38:20] change and, you know, the impact that kids in the future might have on that.

[00:38:25] And so I just I think that young people have not been encouraged to take that step.

[00:38:29] But what do you think, Leah?

[00:38:30] Was that a message that you heard growing up as well?

[00:38:34] Well, you know, it wasn't.

[00:38:35] I don't know. My my my context might have been a little bit different.

[00:38:39] I I tended not to be surrounded with the climate alarmism that has really become become

[00:38:46] typical. That's good.

[00:38:49] So so if that's featuring in that, that's not really been my particular experience.

[00:38:55] And we can I'm sure we all have opinions about the reasonableness of of that concern.

[00:39:01] I think one of the things that I might point to is, you know, the way that the work that

[00:39:09] that the office expectations for work typically go.

[00:39:13] It's very rigid and it's really hard, especially for a woman with a career to have a

[00:39:19] family and a career.

[00:39:21] But it doesn't have to be that way.

[00:39:22] It doesn't have to create this hard choice between career or family.

[00:39:27] I think one of the things we saw coming out of COVID is that flexible work arrangements

[00:39:31] actually result in more productive people.

[00:39:34] So I wonder if adopting more flexible work methods might help encourage the families

[00:39:42] that we need.

[00:39:43] I I'm so glad you brought that up.

[00:39:44] I agree 100 percent.

[00:39:46] And I'm blessed right now to be a mom who is able to work flexibly part time.

[00:39:50] And that's thanks to point of view.

[00:39:53] So thank you, point of view.

[00:39:55] But it is possible.

[00:39:57] And I think that we are seeing more people and more companies and organizations lean

[00:40:01] that way.

[00:40:02] But it's been a little bit of a hard transition.

[00:40:04] But we're seeing a lot of dads be interested in that as well.

[00:40:08] I've seen some studies where fathers are spending more time with their kids now than

[00:40:12] they have in the past.

[00:40:13] And I think that's really positive.

[00:40:15] But that is made possible by more family friendly work environments for both moms and

[00:40:21] dads.

[00:40:22] You know, the the population working, the working population started shifting about

[00:40:26] the mid 1970s as more and more women started going to work.

[00:40:29] My mother always worked.

[00:40:30] But as they started going to work and they're putting in full days at work and now

[00:40:35] they're moving into other types.

[00:40:37] A lot of times those were jobs of, you know, sort of lower skilled type job secretaries

[00:40:43] and things of that nature.

[00:40:44] Now they're graduating.

[00:40:45] I think there's more women joining the medical school, going to medical school than

[00:40:50] there are men.

[00:40:51] They're going into the STEM areas and just taking on jobs that are going to be more

[00:40:56] demanding, more education.

[00:40:58] And probably there may be some flexibility there.

[00:41:01] But as women take on more of these demanding jobs, higher paying and so forth, jobs,

[00:41:07] the STEM jobs, it may put pressure on them being able to have kids as well because it's

[00:41:13] just hard to put in a full day and come home.

[00:41:15] It sure is.

[00:41:16] And one thing that I would note is I think it goes back to what we were talking about

[00:41:19] earlier in the show, which is the Institute for Family Studies article where young

[00:41:25] adults are under the impression that they need to have a lot of money saved before

[00:41:29] they get married.

[00:41:30] And I think they're under the impression that they need to get a lot of things done

[00:41:33] before they get married, including finishing all of the schooling and advanced

[00:41:38] degrees that they want to pursue.

[00:41:40] But as we talked about earlier, you can get married younger.

[00:41:43] And so if you are waiting until you've done medical school and your residency to

[00:41:48] then get married and then have kids, that is going to be harder.

[00:41:52] But I also know a lot of couples who have gotten married young right out of college.

[00:41:57] Maybe the husband gets a degree, then the wife takes her turn while the other one's

[00:42:01] working and they have a baby and one takes time off.

[00:42:03] And so there are more people who are kind of adopting this partnership outlook.

[00:42:08] And so I just think that we need to be saying, yes, encourage family friendly

[00:42:12] workplaces, but also don't worry about having all of your ducks in a row before you

[00:42:18] get married, because you can't even start your family until you get married.

[00:42:20] And so and statistically speaking, you are more likely to have success when you get

[00:42:27] married and have children, which is something else that people should be aware of.

[00:42:31] You know, Leah, not that long ago, I suspect the vast majority of candidates in law

[00:42:34] school were men.

[00:42:36] But when you went to law school, I suspect you saw a large number, perhaps even a

[00:42:40] majority of women.

[00:42:42] I would say it was pretty even.

[00:42:44] And, you know, I think that's a great thing.

[00:42:48] One of the things that I think is a mistake is putting, you know, all of the blame for

[00:42:53] the fertility crisis on women having careers.

[00:42:56] And and I think it's important to encourage the family as a whole and make that that

[00:43:02] possible for women to have the careers and have that family because there's a balance.

[00:43:08] But I want to go back to one of the things that you said at the beginning about, you

[00:43:12] know, the issue of Social Security and not having enough enough people, young people

[00:43:17] to support it. I will say that that I wonder whether, you know, there's a difference

[00:43:22] of perspective there because I can tell you that in my generation, I don't think I've

[00:43:26] talked to a single person of my generation left or right who expects to receive Social

[00:43:31] Security when we retire.

[00:43:33] So we expect that system to collapse long before we benefit from it.

[00:43:37] So having enough children to support us is really not something that we considered

[00:43:42] necessary. You know, Frank Luntz, one of his famous questions, polls that he took was

[00:43:47] whether or not he was asking younger people whether or not you believe that Social

[00:43:52] Security will be there when you retire or in aliens.

[00:43:57] More people believed in aliens than thought Social Security would be there when they

[00:44:01] retire. So it's a it's a it's a common view among millennials.

[00:44:06] Yeah, you know, I think that Leah makes a lot of good points.

[00:44:09] And, you know, that is something that for people our age, it does seem far away.

[00:44:13] However, we do need to be thinking about the economic impacts.

[00:44:17] And again, the prioritizing the whole family, mom, dad and kids in our policies as

[00:44:24] well as our culture, I think is very important right now with the fertility crisis

[00:44:27] we're seeing. Well, Leah, thank you for joining us.

[00:44:29] Give us your website at First Liberty.

[00:44:32] First Liberty dot org.

[00:44:34] Pleasure to be with you.

[00:44:35] Thank you for joining us.

[00:44:36] And we we have a number of our articles up on point of view today.

[00:44:40] So if you'd like to get a look at those, you can go there and click on those and see

[00:44:44] those. I'd also encourage you to donate to point of view when you go there.

[00:44:48] And Liberty, thank you for joining us today.

[00:44:51] It's been great to be here.

[00:44:52] Thank you. And you'll be having your podcast coming out again soon.

[00:44:55] Yes. No, why?

[00:44:56] Podcast dot com.

[00:44:57] Look it up. Thank you for joining us today on Point of View's weekend edition.

[00:45:01] 19th century London, two towering historical figures did battle not with guns and bombs,

[00:45:17] but words and ideas.

[00:45:20] London was home to Karl Marx, the father of communism and legendary Baptist preacher

[00:45:26] Charles Spurgeon.

[00:45:28] London was in many ways the center of the world economically, militarily and

[00:45:33] intellectually.

[00:45:34] Marx sought to destroy religion, the family and everything the Bible supports.

[00:45:39] Spurgeon stood against him.

[00:45:41] Warning of socialism's dangers.

[00:45:44] Spurgeon understood Christianity is not just religious truth.

[00:45:48] It is truth for all of life.

[00:45:51] Where do you find men with that kind of wisdom to stand against darkness today?

[00:45:56] Get the light you need on today's most pressing issues delivered to your inbox when you sign

[00:46:01] up for the viewpoints commentary at point of view dot net slash sign up every weekday

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[00:46:28] Point of view is produced by Point of View Ministries.