Point of View May 23, 2024 – Hour 2 : The Millennial Round Table

[00:00:00] Roundtable this Thursday. I am continued to be joined by Liberty McCarter, who is a writer with Point of View.

[00:00:31] She's also the podcast host and president of Know Why Podcast. Thanks for staying with us, Liberty.

[00:00:36] Thanks, Chelsea. I'm enjoying it. It's great conversations.

[00:00:39] I think so too. Last hour we covered a little bit of an analysis on atheism and culture and the influence that that's had.

[00:00:46] And we also talked about most recent Democrat attacks against the pro-life pregnancy resource center movement.

[00:00:53] So don't forget to go back to last hour and listen to that on PointofView.net or, of course, on Point of View Radio on Facebook,

[00:01:00] where you can like us and see Liberty's smiling face right now, even as we speak.

[00:01:05] I'm excited to announce we have a very new guest joining us this next hour. His name is Jason Jimenez.

[00:01:11] He is the founder and president of Stan Strong Ministries, a faculty member at Summit Ministries.

[00:01:17] He's also a bestselling author, national speaker, and specializes in the biblical worldview training.

[00:01:23] So, of course, he's a perfect fit for Point of View. Welcome to the show, Jason.

[00:01:27] Thank you for having me. Great to be with you guys.

[00:01:30] Of course. Well, we have an exciting last hour today where we're going to talk from a millennial perspective, of course,

[00:01:36] over really what I was shocked made so many waves, a traditional Catholic speaking to a Catholic university about traditional Catholic values.

[00:01:45] And that, of course, is NFL's Harrison Butker, who sent a lot of truth bombs over to the university he was speaking at for their commencement speech.

[00:01:54] And, you know, culture had no shortage of attacks for him.

[00:01:57] But I wanted to talk about some of the things he said because I think it's an important analysis that we should have as believers.

[00:02:05] And it's hopeful, as always, to see a believer speaking truth.

[00:02:09] And continuing on with that hopeful news in the rest of the hour, we'll be talking about a study coming out of the U.K.

[00:02:17] that talked about a revival of faith and spiritual questioning among the next generation, Gen Zers.

[00:02:24] Not to be confused with millennials. We are now old and middle aged.

[00:02:28] It was my birthday yesterday, so I was very reminded of that.

[00:02:31] But the next generation is very spiritually minded, and I love hearing that news.

[00:02:35] But we're going to start with the kicker for the Chiefs.

[00:02:38] His name is Harrison Butker, and by now you probably have seen some of his quotes.

[00:02:42] But he did speak at a Catholic university's commencement and really said, we're here.

[00:02:48] The gist of it was for such a time as this, as believers.

[00:02:51] And he said, you know, at this venue more than any, I should be able to speak hard truths and preach those hard truths that God has given to us.

[00:02:59] And he talked about all sorts of countercultural issues, everything from having pride in God instead of pride in sexuality.

[00:03:08] So that was one of the first things he said.

[00:03:10] But he also talked about in a very loving way and an admirable way towards his wife,

[00:03:16] her decision to have what he called a vocation as a homemaker,

[00:03:20] and that that's been her highest calling to work at home, raise their kids, and give up her career.

[00:03:26] And that instead of what he would have said, the left, or I would even agree with this too,

[00:03:31] that the left says women must work and be at their jobs and give up their own fertility, abortion, in order to be successful,

[00:03:40] that they have to choose between being a mother, which we all know is the opposite of empowerment.

[00:03:45] He said actually his wife is really happy and empowered by her choice to raise their family.

[00:03:50] So I want to start with you, Jason.

[00:03:53] I'd love to get your thoughts on not only his speech, but were there things you agreed with or did not agree with?

[00:03:59] And then we'll talk about the waves that it made.

[00:04:02] Well, Chelsea, Liberty, it's great to be with you both, and I appreciate your guys' stance as millennials.

[00:04:07] You feel old. I feel old. I'm a Gen Xer.

[00:04:09] And so now you're making me feel like I'm older and I shouldn't be on the show.

[00:04:13] But it is actually amazing to your point about Butker.

[00:04:18] I mean, let's get – I know a lot of people probably see clips or they see like imagery of the whole thing, but let's put it in perspective, shall we?

[00:04:26] I mean, here you have a three-time Super Bowl winner.

[00:04:29] He's a devout Catholic. He's at Benedictine College in Kansas, right, was giving the commencement speech, as we know, in a Catholic school.

[00:04:38] And yet he's being attacked, not just from the left, but the order of nuns that are affiliated with the college have actually come out opposing Butker's comments.

[00:04:48] So we do have these progressive Catholics, right, who disagree with what he had to say.

[00:04:54] And what you were saying, Chelsea, is, you know, he was using the term homemaker.

[00:04:58] He was, you know, opposing abortion, Pride Month, DEI.

[00:05:02] I think at one point he was saying that faith is countercultural, right?

[00:05:07] And it was a reminder when you see somebody who's standing up for his faith in a climate, in this environment where he was invited as a guest with the faculty, the students, and many of the parents and attendants who paid for their child to go to this very expensive private school, believe what he was saying.

[00:05:23] And yet there's this uproar around this whole issue, and it reminds me of Galatians 4.16.

[00:05:30] Remember when Paul told the Galatians, because he's refuting against the Judaizers, he says, have I then become your enemy by telling you the truth?

[00:05:38] And it's almost like here Butker was telling the truth, and yet people have lambasted him.

[00:05:44] They've attacked him.

[00:05:46] But I think the cool thing about Butker, and even if you look at like Patrick Mahomes, and I even looked into when this was all coming out with Coach Reed, because you want to kind of see what the big players, right, what they have to say.

[00:05:58] What does the coach have to say?

[00:05:59] What does the big, you know, superstar Patrick Mahomes have to say?

[00:06:03] And you know what they said?

[00:06:04] They said, look, we do live in a microcosm of life.

[00:06:07] There's different opinions and different religions and different ethnicities.

[00:06:11] And Patrick Mahomes says, look, I know the guy.

[00:06:14] He's a man of character.

[00:06:15] You know, I may not agree with everything, but let's just move on.

[00:06:18] It's not a big issue.

[00:06:19] And I love the fact that what we are actually seeing is a man who stands up for his values and is speaking.

[00:06:26] Remember he said it's not about living successful careers.

[00:06:28] He says, but most of you guys want to be married and have children.

[00:06:31] That is the highest calling.

[00:06:32] I have four children.

[00:06:33] I have two in college, one in high school, one in middle school.

[00:06:35] And yes, you know what?

[00:06:36] I'm going to tell you guys right here, right now on the show, my wife is quote, a homemaker.

[00:06:42] And early in our ministry, we've been married now for 24 years.

[00:06:45] And I was a young youth pastor at the time.

[00:06:48] And my wife and I felt from God, we both said that her primary job in ministry was going to be to our kids.

[00:06:56] That's what she wanted to do.

[00:06:58] And she basically was looking at me like, and you're going to go make the money,

[00:07:02] but we're going to do this together and I want to raise our kids.

[00:07:06] But she worked off and on, you know, different various jobs for us to make ends meet.

[00:07:10] But this idea of thinking that my wife did not find her true self because she was stuck at home taking care of kids,

[00:07:17] that's just ridiculous.

[00:07:19] The joy that we see is powerful.

[00:07:21] So I love the fact that he stood up for these things.

[00:07:23] I love the fact that people are standing up for him even though he's being persecuted.

[00:07:26] And we're told in 1 Peter 4.14 that we're going to be insulted for the name of Christ, right?

[00:07:31] And so it's actually a blessing.

[00:07:33] So the great thing is throughout the whole thing, not only did I like many of the comments that he made,

[00:07:37] of course I don't agree with him 100%, but I love the gist of what he was calling out.

[00:07:41] But also his demeanor afterwards, I think is commendable as well.

[00:07:46] We are definitely going to get there when we get back after this short break.

[00:07:50] But never one, Jason, to pass up on a little bit of irony.

[00:07:53] I thought Babylon B said it best.

[00:07:55] Feminists warn young girls against marrying rich, muscular football stars who love them

[00:08:01] and take care of all their needs and praise them in speeches.

[00:08:04] And that really wraps up, of course, ironically and satirically what we're alluding to,

[00:08:09] that a pro-family value is so countercultural to where we're at.

[00:08:15] But it's also dangerous.

[00:08:17] One of my points about this visceral reaction that we're seeing on the other side

[00:08:22] is it's dangerous to their worldview that women really are our only value as found

[00:08:28] in what we can perform and provide in terms of performance.

[00:08:35] That's really an anti-feminist standpoint.

[00:08:37] But when we get back, I really want to talk to Liberty about her thoughts.

[00:08:41] Don't go anywhere after this.

[00:08:58] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:02] Americans are rightly concerned about what is happening at our border.

[00:09:05] But skeptics ask whether the U.S. can control the border.

[00:09:08] Todd Benson in a recent PragerU video provides some answers.

[00:09:12] He has spent the last 20 years of his life dealing with the issue of immigration,

[00:09:15] both as a reporter and as an intelligence officer in the Texas government.

[00:09:20] From 2021 to 2024, 8 million people have entered the country illegally,

[00:09:25] and that does not count the 2 million gotaways.

[00:09:28] He calls this the greatest mass movement across national borders in U.S. history

[00:09:32] and maybe the greatest in human history.

[00:09:34] And it is worth mentioning these people are coming from 150 different countries.

[00:09:39] Why are they coming? He says it gets down to risk versus reward.

[00:09:42] If the reward is greater than the risk of deportation, migrants will come.

[00:09:46] Under the Trump administration, the risks were higher.

[00:09:49] The president extended the border wall, instituted a remain in Mexico policy,

[00:09:53] and empowered border and immigration agents to detain, deport, and expel illegal immigrants.

[00:09:59] The current administration reversed all those policies.

[00:10:02] He laments that now border agents become like Walmart greeters.

[00:10:06] Deportation officers were chained to their desk.

[00:10:09] Most anyone who showed up was guaranteed entry.

[00:10:12] The odds changed significantly, and word got out to the other countries.

[00:10:16] We now have a mass movement of people towards a single goal to get across the border.

[00:10:21] Once they get here, then we have the responsibility to feed, house,

[00:10:24] and care for millions of people from other countries we didn't invite to this country.

[00:10:29] How can we reverse this trend? The answer is simple.

[00:10:32] Reverse the risk-reward calculus.

[00:10:34] He reminds us that we did it in 2017 to 2021.

[00:10:37] We can do it again.

[00:10:39] I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:47] For a free booklet on a biblical view on big data, go to viewpoints.info.com.

[00:10:53] That's viewpoints.info.com.

[00:10:56] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:11:05] Welcome back to the Millennial Roundtable.

[00:11:08] Liberty, I'm turning to you now on Harrison Butker's statements in his most recent commencement speech.

[00:11:14] We saw a lot of negative response out of the LGBTQ community, feminists alike making statements.

[00:11:21] One response surprised me, I would say, and that was Whoopi Goldberg, who is typically a firebrand.

[00:11:28] And in our article, they have a quote from her saying,

[00:11:31] well, I might disagree with him, but these are his beliefs, and he's welcome to them.

[00:11:35] I don't have to believe them.

[00:11:37] That really surprised me, Liberty, because we talk a lot about cancel culture on our show today.

[00:11:42] And I wondered if this is another sign that cancel culture is on its way out the door.

[00:11:49] Love to hear your thoughts on really anything he said, but also the criticism.

[00:11:53] Sure. Well, I thought that was a breath of fresh air,

[00:11:56] and I think maybe people are getting tired of cancel culture because it is so exhausting.

[00:12:02] And I think Jason brought up great points as well.

[00:12:05] When you ask his coach and his teammates, they are saying this is a good guy.

[00:12:10] And no, we may not have the exact same beliefs on everything, but again, he is a Catholic.

[00:12:16] He was speaking at a Catholic university, and based on what I've heard or can tell,

[00:12:22] it was well-received by its intended audience, his speech was.

[00:12:28] So I think the anger over it is a little ridiculous, because again, we should be able to go and talk about our beliefs in public.

[00:12:37] That's something that Point of View does a great job of highlighting,

[00:12:40] especially with guests from First Liberty Institute and everything.

[00:12:43] As you know, Chelsea, that people shouldn't be persecuted just for speaking about what they believe.

[00:12:47] You don't have to agree with it.

[00:12:49] And I think that his speech has sparked some interesting conversations.

[00:12:54] I actually listened to it myself this morning, and I was like, you know, of course there are things in here that I don't really agree with.

[00:13:00] First of all, I'm not Catholic, so there are a lot of things that don't really apply to me.

[00:13:05] And I did want to make a note just regarding, I think a lot of the controversy has been over his comments about his wife

[00:13:13] and encouraging young ladies in the audience to be homemakers.

[00:13:17] And one of the things he said was that his wife thinks that her life didn't really start until she became a wife and a mother.

[00:13:24] And the way that he spoke about his wife was very endearing and very sweet.

[00:13:28] And you can tell that he's obviously a family guy, and I love that.

[00:13:31] I do think as Christians, though, that we need to be careful.

[00:13:35] And you guys, you may disagree with me, so I'd love to hear your responses, too.

[00:13:39] I think we need to be careful about just our language when we are articulating this.

[00:13:44] We want to defend family values because they are under attack in the culture.

[00:13:48] So it's good to encourage marriage, it's good to encourage children.

[00:13:51] But I don't think that it's necessarily right to say that a woman's highest calling is to be a mother

[00:13:58] because God's plan for every woman may not be to get married or to have children, even for people who really desire that.

[00:14:06] I know I've had people in my life who want to get married more than anything else, and that just hasn't happened.

[00:14:12] Or maybe it happened later than they intended.

[00:14:14] So I think we need to emphasize that the highest calling for you as an individual is to follow Jesus,

[00:14:21] and he will lay out your path.

[00:14:24] And if you follow him, that may include marriage, and that's great.

[00:14:27] And family is good, but even Paul in the Bible said singleness can be good.

[00:14:32] So I think that we do need to, again, emphasize the importance of family.

[00:14:38] And I will say, I'm a mom.

[00:14:40] I have two little ones.

[00:14:41] I work from home part-time, so I would, you know, in some sense, I'm a homemaker as well.

[00:14:46] I'm a stay-at-home mom.

[00:14:47] We homeschool our kids, and I love that.

[00:14:49] And because I've been blessed with children and I chose to get married,

[00:14:53] I would say that is my priority at this season of life because that's the direction that my life has taken.

[00:14:59] I don't think that that means that I'm closer to God than another woman who doesn't have children or anything like that.

[00:15:04] So I just wanted to make that comment because I think we need to be careful as Christians when we're talking about these issues,

[00:15:09] not to make women who aren't married or don't have kids feel like they don't have a high calling as a Christian.

[00:15:14] Liberty, I love so much that you're saying this right now, even at the risk of, you know,

[00:15:19] some of us disagreeing on this call or not, but the point being, you know, as a woman as well,

[00:15:28] I always say nuance is important.

[00:15:32] And so you can look at his comments and say we're for traditional family values or we're against the patriarchy,

[00:15:39] which is what society really likes to do is paint with those broad brush strokes.

[00:15:43] But really the nuance for me on this is why so many feminists reacted the way they did.

[00:15:49] We have to ask what's the hurt there?

[00:15:52] What is their hurt against the church?

[00:15:54] And what do we as believers have to own in that, perpetuating some of that?

[00:15:59] And, you know, I think it's a good thing to ask because, of course, it is good and worthy calling.

[00:16:04] If God blesses us with children, it is our duty to steward those children.

[00:16:09] And it is our duty to raise them up in the Lord and to teach them and to help connect them with the Lord.

[00:16:16] But he also has other callings on our lives as any human, not just as a woman or a man and a father,

[00:16:22] because lots of fathers are also called to be good fathers and homemakers in their own rights.

[00:16:27] And we can do that without saying that we're throwing complementarity,

[00:16:30] this idea that women and men have different roles in the home, equal but good,

[00:16:36] which is what the Bible has set out for us.

[00:16:38] But I did want to point out Liberty as well,

[00:16:41] this idea that I think that there are a lot of women who've been hurt by the church

[00:16:46] and maybe some of these male-dominated conversations and the way we have these conversations, as you alluded to.

[00:16:52] It really matters to say that women have value outside of being able to procreate, right?

[00:16:59] It doesn't have to be either or.

[00:17:01] It can be, yes, you know, a calling to be a mother is a good and worthy calling that God uniquely designed us for,

[00:17:08] and it is a gift.

[00:17:10] Women who are not gifted from the Lord in that way are no less than, right?

[00:17:15] Or women who are gifted in that way but are called into ministry in their own rights,

[00:17:20] and maybe they, like you said, work at home, work at night.

[00:17:24] You know, I often find myself up at 1 a.m. after kids have been long asleep working for the kingdom in the pro-life movement,

[00:17:31] and I am called to that, but he always provides,

[00:17:35] and I do agree, our first fidelity when we have a family is to raising our children in the Lord.

[00:17:41] So I do agree with him on that.

[00:17:43] It's just we have to allow space for nuance, nuance and callings,

[00:17:48] and faithfulness can look different for different families sometimes as long as it's rooted in truth, rooted in Scripture,

[00:17:54] and our responsibility is first to being a believer, and I'd love, Jason, to get your take on that.

[00:18:03] Well, yeah, I mean, I think this is well said.

[00:18:05] I mean, I think what Liberty was saying is so important.

[00:18:07] If you look at 1 Corinthians 7, and we were just having a conversation in a recent training I was doing,

[00:18:13] is even for people who came out of, like, the homosexual lifestyle, for example,

[00:18:17] immediately a lot of times people in the church says, well, you've got to get married now.

[00:18:20] You've got to marry somebody of the opposite sex, almost to kind of prove that your conversion's true,

[00:18:24] that you're no longer living that type of life, and again, you don't see that in Scripture.

[00:18:29] Our calling is to glorify God and our beings in what we're to do as a steward

[00:18:33] and we're to be found faithful in according to 1 Corinthians 4, verse 1.

[00:18:36] And so when it goes back to Butker, you know, he's speaking as a married man with children.

[00:18:41] That's what he's conveying, and so this is a part of his experience and his story and his testimony that he's conveying wisdom.

[00:18:48] That's what commensal speech is supposed to be, right?

[00:18:50] You're supposed to share some words of wisdom that you have had in your life as an older individual to an audience of people,

[00:18:58] and I think to your guys' point as well is the nuance is that people do live different lives,

[00:19:05] and we have to respect what those lives are, and there should not be a mandate that requires people to live it a certain way,

[00:19:12] like all women are to be married and have kids, and that's their highest calling, because that's not in Scripture.

[00:19:16] Our highest calling is to glorify God, whatever it is, single or married.

[00:19:20] Now, we know when you are married with children, there's a greater responsibility,

[00:19:25] and that's what he was discussing when it comes to them trying different aspects of their life as they're young.

[00:19:31] And so as you mature in life, you learn different things, what works, what doesn't work.

[00:19:35] Hopefully we all before God are humble and recognize how God has gifted us through the power of the Holy Spirit

[00:19:41] and how we are to steward that, and so I think that's the mark of what he was trying to get at,

[00:19:46] even as a Catholic and we're Protestants, we may not agree in other aspects,

[00:19:51] but the main point here is if you want to turn our society around, it starts in the family,

[00:19:58] and what we need is we need godly men leading their homes and godly women leading their homes as well together,

[00:20:04] and that's the power that we can take away from this,

[00:20:06] and the great thing is I think why we're all discussing this is because I think it hit a nerve.

[00:20:10] Absolutely. I think that's really well said, Jason, and it's a nerve worth discussing.

[00:20:17] It's something for us to really be introspective about, and instead of fighting with culture about,

[00:20:22] to point out these nuances, where are we stepping right, where are we committed,

[00:20:26] which I think ultimately was his point in the speech is in this moment in time,

[00:20:30] we have got to continue to speak truth and love.

[00:20:34] I would like to say if you want to read this article, don't forget to go to pointofyou.net

[00:20:39] where you can read this article. It is a Christian Post article.

[00:20:43] I also have positive news coming out in the next, after this next break in our next segment.

[00:20:48] We're going to be continuing the positive train, the hopeful train,

[00:20:51] because I think God is moving in our culture and our world.

[00:20:54] We're seeing a lot of wars and murmurs of wars and a lot of really difficult things in our culture,

[00:21:01] but on the other side, we know that the spirit of God is alive and well and moving,

[00:21:05] and one of the ways that he is doing that is among the next generation.

[00:21:09] The Gen Z generation is what they're called.

[00:21:11] They're really traditionally ages 19 to 25, and a new UK study has a lot of hopeful indicators

[00:21:19] about this next generation that God is moving and active among them.

[00:21:23] Don't go anywhere after this short break.

[00:21:25] In 19th century London, two towering historical figures did battle,

[00:21:35] not with guns and bombs, but words and ideas.

[00:21:40] London was home to Karl Marx, the father of communism,

[00:21:44] and legendary Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon.

[00:21:48] London was in many ways the center of the world economically, militarily, and intellectually.

[00:21:54] Marx sought to destroy religion, the family, and everything the Bible supports.

[00:21:59] Spurgeon stood against him, warning of socialism's dangers.

[00:22:04] Spurgeon understood Christianity is not just religious truth.

[00:22:08] It is truth for all of life.

[00:22:10] Where do you find men with that kind of wisdom to stand against darkness today?

[00:22:15] Get the light you need on today's most pressing issues delivered to your inbox

[00:22:21] when you sign up for the Viewpoints Commentary at pointofview.net slash sign up.

[00:22:27] Every weekday in less than two minutes,

[00:22:30] you'll learn how to be a person of light to stand against darkness in our time.

[00:22:35] It's free, so visit pointofview.net slash sign up right now.

[00:22:40] pointofview.net slash sign up.

[00:22:48] Point of View will continue after...

[00:22:51] You are listening to Point of View.

[00:23:03] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views

[00:23:07] of the management or staff of this station.

[00:23:10] And now, here again, Chelsea Yeoman.

[00:23:14] Welcome back to the Millennial Roundtable.

[00:23:16] Today I am joined by Jason Jimenez and also Liberty McCarter,

[00:23:21] who's been with us now for going on her second hour.

[00:23:24] Don't forget to go to Point of View Radio and like us on Facebook,

[00:23:28] or you can go to pointofview.net where you can read all of our discussions today or more.

[00:23:32] Lots of good cultural discussions, lots of good religious discussions.

[00:23:36] We're turning now to get some more hopeful news, we've said, out of the Gen Z.

[00:23:42] I guess we'll call them the generation that is younger than us.

[00:23:46] They're ages 19 to 25.

[00:23:49] I say younger than us because we are millennials.

[00:23:52] I think most of us are used to hearing millennials be the youth that gets,

[00:23:56] you know, knocked on for everything from our economic decisions

[00:24:00] to our educational decisions to obviously our cultural decisions,

[00:24:03] which have been a hot mess expressed for a while now.

[00:24:06] But now there's a new generation to really blame things on.

[00:24:09] Unfortunately for me, this UK study actually shows a lot of really incredible things spiritually about the next generation.

[00:24:18] Some of these trends also translated into the US and America.

[00:24:22] So I'm going to discuss it with you now.

[00:24:24] Really, the title of this article is Revival of Faith, Spiritual Questioning Among Gen Zers in the UK.

[00:24:31] And the study revealed a significant shift in religious attitudes among Gen Z in the UK.

[00:24:37] That's born in 1997 or later, this article points out.

[00:24:41] And among that age group, 69% of the respondents who were believers, by the way,

[00:24:48] who were interviewed here said that their faith significantly impacted their lives.

[00:24:55] And that compared with only 51% of believers older than 65.

[00:25:00] So almost 70% of this next generation says that their life is actually changed because of their belief system.

[00:25:07] They're actively living out their faith.

[00:25:10] And then further, 72%, so even more of them, said their religion helped them find a purpose in life

[00:25:16] compared to only 47% of those who are older than 65 in the same survey.

[00:25:22] And they went on to really, there's a ton of statistics in this article.

[00:25:25] But I wanted to start there and just say that although they were much more likely,

[00:25:30] actually double the rate were willing to change their religious beliefs,

[00:25:35] they are exposed to a lot of different religious beliefs.

[00:25:37] We've seen mysticism on the rise, agnosticism on the rise in the last few years.

[00:25:42] And what that means is instead of, I always say, in our millennial or older generation, for you, Jason,

[00:25:49] we saw a lot of, if you weren't a Christian or a believer in the West,

[00:25:53] there was almost like the atheist movement that they were anti-God.

[00:25:57] And that's not really the case of this younger generation.

[00:26:00] We talk about it a lot.

[00:26:01] But the study also showed they're far more open to spirituality,

[00:26:07] things like astrology and looking to the stars and having spirit guides in the universe,

[00:26:13] a lot of real dangerous mysticism and even an increase in witchcraft.

[00:26:17] Wiccans is on the rise, even in the U.S. Census,

[00:26:21] one in a hundred responded that they were witches, that they were of the Wiccan religious system.

[00:26:27] So this for me indicates that while Gen Z is yes, seems a lot more spiritual overall,

[00:26:34] but they're also ranking really high on their Christian belief systems, which was a surprise to me.

[00:26:40] Jason, did any of this, the statistics in here surprise you?

[00:26:43] Yeah, I mean, in a way it did.

[00:26:46] And I'm glad you're bringing it up because I think you're right with,

[00:26:49] I started my ministry working with your guys' generation, which I absolutely love.

[00:26:53] And just so thankful that you guys have your voices and doing what you're doing

[00:26:57] because your generation does get a bad rap, right?

[00:27:00] It's like snowflakes, you know, they're good for nothing.

[00:27:02] They're always complaining.

[00:27:03] They want free education all the time and they're running this country to the ground.

[00:27:06] And that's just not true.

[00:27:08] I think, again, like we were talking about in the last segment,

[00:27:10] let's look at the positive of these kind of things.

[00:27:13] And we always want to get into arguments or disagree with people.

[00:27:17] And the reality is, and this is what's fascinating by the way,

[00:27:20] when you look at that study, and that's in Europe,

[00:27:22] where we know it's a lot more godless, if you will, than even here in America.

[00:27:26] And so they're seeing this trend up, if you will, to spirituality and to religion

[00:27:31] or kind of going back to how they were initially raised, you know what I mean?

[00:27:35] Let's say a decade or two removed as they start a party and start to sleep around

[00:27:39] or whatever, and they're finding out in high school,

[00:27:41] because a lot of Gen Zers are now graduating from college.

[00:27:44] And in my book, Parenting Gen Z, that I did with Focus on the Family,

[00:27:49] we found that Gen Zers, only 4% of their parents have a biblical worldview.

[00:27:53] And we're talking about 60 plus million of Gen Zers, okay, in America.

[00:27:57] And I know this study is about UK, but the trend obviously was a lot less

[00:28:02] when you're looking at parents investing in this generation.

[00:28:04] And if you looked at about five years ago, my friends over at BARDA,

[00:28:09] NPAC 360, when they did a study for Gen Z, they found that about 20% of them

[00:28:14] said that religion is very important to their self.

[00:28:17] But what's fascinating about the data we're looking at right now,

[00:28:19] within five years, we're seeing, if you will, and I know we can use this term

[00:28:24] and abuse it sometimes, but a revival to God, to realizing that a lot of this stuff,

[00:28:30] this godlessness that you were saying earlier, Chelsea, about secularism,

[00:28:33] consumerism, agnosticism isn't working.

[00:28:36] And what I find fascinating, and I want your listeners to capture this,

[00:28:40] is that if you want to take one of the most recognizable faces on social media,

[00:28:45] who is a youngest millennial who kind of ushered in the Gen Z generation?

[00:28:49] It's Logan Paul, right? And Jake Paul, his younger brother,

[00:28:53] who is like the beginning of the Gen Z generation.

[00:28:57] What's fascinating, this guy has tens of millions of followers, as you know,

[00:29:01] and yet, guess what he's talking about a lot now?

[00:29:04] It's religion. Specifically Jesus.

[00:29:07] On his impulsive podcast, George Janko, who has over 3 million followers,

[00:29:13] he's professing to know Christ as his savior and telling people that

[00:29:16] Jesus changed his life. Now I know a lot of them are still progressive

[00:29:20] and maybe have foul mouths and are not making the wisest decision,

[00:29:23] but they're seeking for answers. Vlad Savochuk, who is a millennial

[00:29:28] who has a huge following on social media as well, he's an ordained minister,

[00:29:32] he's doing coverage on revivals that are happening in public schools among Gen Z.

[00:29:37] So yes, when I'm looking at that, I'm like, God is moving on this generation

[00:29:41] and it's exciting.

[00:29:43] It is exciting, especially when you consider, I always say that the Anglo West,

[00:29:48] the traditional, so England, the UK, they're always about 5 to 7 years culturally

[00:29:53] ahead of the United States. So they've been post-Christian, again,

[00:29:56] for a very long time as you mentioned.

[00:29:58] And we are there now and to see that God is still moving among a post-Christian

[00:30:03] generation, almost a winnowing of sorts.

[00:30:05] Liberty, what did you think when you saw some of these statistics coming out?

[00:30:09] I thought it was so encouraging because Jason mentioned a lot of those

[00:30:13] Varna studies about how few people in the United States, especially among Gen Z,

[00:30:18] actually have a biblical worldview and that can be discouraging.

[00:30:22] But we have to look for the opportunities and people are asking questions.

[00:30:27] They are open to spirituality and this gives us a big window to evangelize

[00:30:32] the next generation. And it reminded me of a conversation we had on the Know Why

[00:30:36] podcast back in December. The episode was called,

[00:30:40] What questions are teens asking? And I had some youth pastors on and who were

[00:30:45] just saying that they minister to hundreds of teens every week and they are

[00:30:50] asking about Jesus. A lot of them don't come from Christian homes because,

[00:30:54] you know, so many fewer people are religious in America,

[00:30:58] but they are coming to church on their own because they are interested in

[00:31:02] spirituality and they are seeking something more like Jason said.

[00:31:06] And they just want to know about Jesus. They want to know who he is, what he did,

[00:31:09] what he said. And I think there are interesting too that so many members of Gen Z

[00:31:15] are social justice minded. And as we talked about in the first hour,

[00:31:19] you've got Marxism and critical theory and everything which just kind of skews

[00:31:24] that perception of justice, but they are seeking something.

[00:31:28] And then when they meet Jesus, they're like, yes, this is who I've been looking for.

[00:31:32] This makes it all make sense. And so it's just exciting to see and hear from

[00:31:36] multiple sources how many young people out there are open to hearing about Jesus

[00:31:40] in the gospel.

[00:31:43] Yes, not only are they open to it,

[00:31:45] but it sounds like it's also positively impacting their lives because we all

[00:31:49] know that there can be a disconnect between intellect that we say we believe it.

[00:31:54] We might be reading our scripture,

[00:31:55] although I think some studies also indicate we are in the most biblically

[00:31:59] illiterate age we've ever been in.

[00:32:02] But to know in this study that not only do Gen Zers say that they have a faith,

[00:32:07] but that it impacts their life, that they're applying their knowledge.

[00:32:12] And then one other point that I do want to talk about when we get back after the

[00:32:16] break is this idea in the survey that they had a lot more positive outlook

[00:32:22] towards religion. I think that we are in a society,

[00:32:25] especially when you think of the First Amendment realm,

[00:32:28] which I'm so inclined to do as a former First Liberty Institute attorney,

[00:32:32] where we helped litigate these cases where people were fired,

[00:32:35] literally fired because they said Christian things at the workplace.

[00:32:40] Where culture,

[00:32:41] you cannot hardly even pray at school anymore without getting slapped by your

[00:32:45] school administrators.

[00:32:47] But the opposite is true of what Gen Z said in this study.

[00:32:50] And those surveys found that Gen Zers were more likely to find faith as a

[00:32:54] positive force in public life.

[00:32:56] So we often hear Kelly Shackelford on this show say things like,

[00:33:00] they don't mind if you have your faith,

[00:33:02] but it belongs in your pews and in your church behind the closed doors or

[00:33:06] privately in your home. You go pray and read your Bible privately at home.

[00:33:10] But anytime that that faith becomes more public,

[00:33:14] really non-believers get a lot more uncomfortable with it.

[00:33:17] We just talked about in the last segments about Butker's statements on his

[00:33:21] views. And they said, wow, if he believes that,

[00:33:24] he just needs to be really quiet about it. That's okay for him to believe it.

[00:33:27] Just don't, don't you dare say it out loud.

[00:33:31] And that's really where we find ourselves now.

[00:33:33] But the study indicated that Gen Z views it differently than that more when we

[00:33:38] get back after this short break.

[00:33:40] Listening to point of view.

[00:33:59] Welcome back to the millennial round table.

[00:34:05] We're discussing a real shift among the Gen Z generation in their views on

[00:34:10] whether religion should play a role in public life or not.

[00:34:14] And we're so familiar here in America with this idea that we're having to fight

[00:34:19] really for the ability to continue to not just believe what we believe in our

[00:34:23] consciences, but vocalize those. You know, we know our first amendment,

[00:34:26] religious liberty rights are under attack constantly in the court systems,

[00:34:32] but over the, across the pond over in the UK,

[00:34:35] Gen Z is actually saying that they view faith as a positive force in public

[00:34:41] life. And that, that 45%, I'm sorry,

[00:34:45] 55% say religion is a good thing and it's something that should be expressed

[00:34:50] that schools are better for it.

[00:34:52] And even though the UK has been on a downward trend of secularization legally

[00:34:57] and politically, the youth disagree. You know, in, in the UK,

[00:35:02] just to be very clear, there is such a thing as hate speech being a crime.

[00:35:07] That's not something we have here in the U S yet,

[00:35:09] although Australia has also adopted this.

[00:35:11] You can be fined for saying something that is not someone else's pronoun.

[00:35:16] If you get the pronoun wrong, you can have a criminal fine put against you.

[00:35:20] You can go to jail for six months in Australia for that.

[00:35:23] So I'm not saying that this is legally there where they should be,

[00:35:26] but I am saying at least culturally,

[00:35:28] there is this shift where they actually say that religion is a good thing in

[00:35:33] your workplace,

[00:35:34] that religion is a good thing in your school systems and that they should be

[00:35:38] allowed in the public spheres. Liberty,

[00:35:40] that's a pretty big shift compared to what we're seeing here in America.

[00:35:43] Isn't it?

[00:35:44] It is. And another thing that I thought was really interesting was that 76%

[00:35:48] of 18 to 24 year olds had friends with different beliefs or faith.

[00:35:53] So this increasing tolerance of people with different beliefs.

[00:35:57] And I think that's really encouraging because, you know,

[00:36:00] for people who are in that environment, I think like you said,

[00:36:06] I think it was in the last hour. Oftentimes we get to be people pleasers.

[00:36:10] We can be kind of afraid to speak out if we know that our friends are going to

[00:36:15] disagree with us or to speak truth boldly because we don't want to make anyone

[00:36:20] upset or we're not sure if they'll accept that.

[00:36:23] But hopefully this trend continues over here as well,

[00:36:26] where more and more young people are having diverse friends with people of

[00:36:29] various beliefs. So they, you know,

[00:36:32] probably wouldn't mind if you spoke up and that shouldn't deter us anyways.

[00:36:36] But we sometimes can get so caught up in our heads of thinking these people are

[00:36:39] going to be offended if I speak out and maybe they will a well,

[00:36:43] but a lot of times I think people will just be glad that you cared enough to

[00:36:46] share it. So I thought that was a really interesting statistic in the study.

[00:36:49] Well, it is because, you know, millennials were infamously,

[00:36:53] so not in a great way known for this idea of tolerance,

[00:36:57] but it quickly turned into,

[00:36:59] we have tolerance for all the belief systems but religious ones.

[00:37:03] And I'm hopeful that maybe the next generation will actually maybe be more

[00:37:08] tolerant. Although the Bible tells us a little bit how Christians will be viewed

[00:37:12] towards the end times, you know, what direction that's going to go.

[00:37:15] But at least among believers in these studies,

[00:37:17] it looks like there is a higher level of tolerance,

[00:37:20] including for Christian values. Jason, I'd love to get your thoughts on that.

[00:37:25] Yeah. I mean, I just was listening and what's amazing too,

[00:37:28] to what you guys are adding to the whole thing about our, and again,

[00:37:31] our prayer here in the States is that we would see what's slightly taking place

[00:37:36] in the UK. I'm reminded this was powerful to hear Alex O'Connor,

[00:37:40] who is a Gen Zer at Oxford, I believe he has a huge following on social media.

[00:37:45] He professes to be an atheist. Sometimes it goes to the point where he's

[00:37:49] atheist, sometimes agnostic.

[00:37:51] He has on a lot of Christian thinkers, right?

[00:37:54] From the people like Dr. Will and Lane Craig and Frank Turk and others.

[00:37:58] But the amazing thing is in a recent round table discussion,

[00:38:01] even though he's going around kind of advancing atheism,

[00:38:06] he realizes it's empty. He admits that. And he even says,

[00:38:11] and I quote, I hope that Christianity is true.

[00:38:15] It would mean nothing more than to know that Jesus is who you guys say he is.

[00:38:20] And so see,

[00:38:21] notice the peaking of the interest that even someone like him has,

[00:38:24] and he has this huge following of young people who are disseminating atheism or

[00:38:29] secularism or naturalism. So that's powerful in and of itself too. So yeah,

[00:38:34] we got to continue to pray.

[00:38:35] And I think the cool thing that you guys are seeing in the last segment was let's

[00:38:38] not be Debbie doubters. You know what I mean? Like, yes,

[00:38:41] I know we have a lot of work to do and that's why I hold fast to what Paul was

[00:38:46] conveying to Timothy, you know, hold fast to the faith, model the faith,

[00:38:50] be a person of integrity. That's what they're hungry for.

[00:38:53] And it was something Liberty you said earlier, which is so true.

[00:38:55] When you actually look at the studies, and this is in UK in the United States,

[00:38:59] the ones who did have a religion that they grew up in,

[00:39:02] particularly evangelical or Protestantism, but walked away from it.

[00:39:06] They will also admit that they were not able to find that type of union or

[00:39:11] community since they left their faith.

[00:39:14] And so I think that's another thing that's drawing them back is because they are

[00:39:18] isolated and they feel lonely and they're seeing that there is quality and

[00:39:23] honesty and vulnerability and truth that in the beauty of this,

[00:39:27] that is ignited when believers come together and are like-minded.

[00:39:31] That's really powerful.

[00:39:33] I think we could get advice from you all day long, you know,

[00:39:36] especially as I sometimes struggle to wrap my head around just everything is so

[00:39:42] bifurcated in our world. People are either, and even at the end of this study,

[00:39:46] they discussed that while yes,

[00:39:48] there's a lot of really active Gen Z believers who say the Bible has

[00:39:54] transformed their lives, 49% of them still though said that the Bible

[00:40:00] transformed their lives.

[00:40:01] They're still the highest level at the same time of atheists and agnostics

[00:40:05] among that generation compared to older generations.

[00:40:07] So 34% are atheists and that's a really high level.

[00:40:12] And so it's almost like we can just continuing to spread the gospel,

[00:40:17] but also as you're mentioning,

[00:40:19] I think to love our neighbors as ourselves and engage in our communities in a

[00:40:23] world that is a lot more isolated and lonely, perhaps than ever before.

[00:40:28] You know, we have a lot less of those societal community systems in place,

[00:40:32] even in our own neighborhoods than we've ever had. Right, Jason?

[00:40:37] Yeah, I think that's well said.

[00:40:40] And that's not a trend that you want to see young people go into as many of

[00:40:44] them as we talked about when we're talking about the Butker stuff.

[00:40:46] A lot of millennials and Gen Zers aren't getting married and whether they are

[00:40:51] called to marriage or not,

[00:40:52] it is our responsibility as older Christians to be big brothers and big

[00:40:57] sisters to them and to show them how to commune together, not to be isolated.

[00:41:01] And that's why what we are seeing is that as the spread of secularism has

[00:41:08] inundated millennials and Gen Z, the most, you know,

[00:41:11] quote unquote godless generation that we've seen in American history,

[00:41:14] they're seeing that it's empty and we have to be there to respond to not just

[00:41:19] their doubts, but some of the ideas that they have been percolating.

[00:41:25] And again, I think to a large degree,

[00:41:27] it's been demonic that they've been following the doctrine of demons,

[00:41:30] but we can't kick them out.

[00:41:32] We have to receive them and meet them where they're at.

[00:41:35] So that's my prayer. When I see these kinds of stats, I get excited.

[00:41:39] You want to motivate and encourage the church not to look past this.

[00:41:43] God is doing a great work among millennials and Gen Zers,

[00:41:46] and we have to be there to feed them, to sponsor them, to support them,

[00:41:51] to love them, to open our homes.

[00:41:52] That's something my wife and I've done through the years is constantly opening

[00:41:55] our home so they can actually see Chelsea.

[00:41:58] What you're saying is this is what home life looks like in a marriage,

[00:42:02] raising kids. You know, you don't have all the answers.

[00:42:07] There is brokenness there,

[00:42:08] but there's redemption every day in our life and the love that we have for

[00:42:11] Christ and for another and meeting those needs,

[00:42:14] whatever they may be for each other, they need to see not just the quality,

[00:42:18] but the genuineness of how faith is actually lived out,

[00:42:21] not just in cultural matters, but in day-to-day decisions, relationally.

[00:42:25] Well said.

[00:42:28] And that begins, of course, with knowing our Bibles

[00:42:31] and actually being in the word and letting it transform our lives,

[00:42:34] doesn't it, Liberty?

[00:42:35] Absolutely.

[00:42:36] And I think that again,

[00:42:37] we just have to look at the issues that are facing the young generation

[00:42:41] and use those as opportunities to talk about the gospel.

[00:42:43] Absolutely.

[00:42:45] Well, thank you guys so much for joining us in this discussion today.

[00:42:48] Jason,

[00:42:49] go ahead and tell all of our listeners where they can learn more about your

[00:42:51] work and ministry and follow you.

[00:42:53] Well, thank you guys for this.

[00:42:55] This was very engaging.

[00:42:57] I pray with the blessing people,

[00:42:58] they could check me out at StanStrohmMinistries.org.

[00:43:00] Thank you.

[00:43:02] Thanks for joining our show today.

[00:43:03] And I hope you have a great rest of your Thursday.

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