Point of View May 13, 2026 – Hour 2 : Bible Translation Work, Trump & the Pope

[00:00:04] Across America, live, this is Point of View, Kerby Anderson. Second hour today, going to spend some time talking with a couple of individuals that I think you need to know about. One of those is Tony Pitanello, who is an individual that has been involved in ministry for more than two decades

[00:00:31] and is certainly wanting to do what he can to have a great impact on the kingdom. He currently serves as the Encouragement Ambassador for Encouragement Media Group. We're going to talk about that in just a minute. But one of the other reasons, and probably the major reason I wanted to get him on, is the other day I heard him speak once again about something I know he's been involved with.

[00:00:52] He's been a catalyst for global Bible translation and has been one of those individuals that has seen how, in some respects, that is really taking off, and I think it would be a real encouragement to you. He served for a while as the Chief Development Officer for Word for the World and also had worked with the Seed Company. We've interviewed some of those individuals in the past.

[00:01:17] For that evening, he spent 15 years in Cambodia as the country director for the International Mission Board, and it is a delight, Tony, to welcome you to Point of View. Kerby, what a privilege and pleasure it is to be on your show. I do want to talk about translations. Well, let's talk about Encouragement Media for just a minute because, if nothing else, it's like old home week. I mean, Troy Krikbaum is the president.

[00:01:43] Bill Bumpus, who I've known from KCBI, Vice President of Programming, one of the on-air hosts, Linda Stringer. I mean, it's a veritable who of people that I've known from Christian media, especially a good number of them from KCBI, and here they are working right now in Encouragement Media Group. Can you tell us more about that? Well, you really named a lot of names. Those are some of our key people. And, yes, Encouragement Media Group is still going strong in English broadcasts,

[00:02:13] but one of our newest things was we bought a Dallas station where we're going to have 2.5 million Hispanic souls under signal. I think that is, what's it, Moldavita, I think is the one you're talking about? Well, Moldavita is our teaching station. Fusión is our music station. We bought KZMJ, and we have 18 signals like that around the U.S. that have a 94% listener rate

[00:02:40] and then an 84% referral rate to others, whether they're in the U.S. of our apps, Fusión and Moldavita, or overseas where Peru, Colombia, Mexico, you name it. That's just incredible. By the way, next time I see you, I should give you a copy of a few of my books which are in Spanish, which we've actually had an individual translating some of those. And if that would be helpful to any of the on-air hosts, be glad to do so.

[00:03:07] But I wanted people to know about that, and we do have a link there. So if people would like to know more about that particular media group. And most importantly, though, the other day, Abigail was actually inviting you to come to speak to all the groups at the Hope Center. And you were talking about Bible translation. And I thought, as great as it was for, I don't know, almost 50 people to hear that in the group, I think it would be good for people on 200 radio stations to hear that.

[00:03:36] Because you've been seeing how Bible translation has really been taking off. Can you give us some perspective? Yeah, I really appreciate that. Yeah, the theme when Abigail asked me to speak was unity and collaboration. And the Bible translation movement has really exemplified that. You have a number of organizations that instead of competing or overlapping, they're combining and collaborating efforts to reach the Bible list.

[00:04:04] So most people may not know that there's 7,395 languages in the world. And 10 years ago when I joined the Bible translation movement, I think it was over 3,000 that hadn't been touched. But thanks to God's working and God's people unifying and collaborating around a wonderful cause and purpose, as of April, and the number will be lower in May, they haven't released it yet.

[00:04:34] But there's about 473 left that haven't been touched out of those 7,395 languages. Isn't that incredible? And again, there are all sorts of reasons for that. You remember the old days, because having been in Cambodia, I'm sure you've experienced it, where somebody with the Wycliffe or, of course, now Seed Company and a variety of others would go and live among the individuals. They would learn the culture. They would learn the language. It would be a long and tedious process.

[00:05:02] And at the end, then we would see at least a New Testament that was in that particular language. And so many of these were unreached people groups. But it seems to me that modern technology, that's computers, that's voice to text, that's AI, and a variety of others have been able to speed up the process, don't you think? Oh, it's been incredible. It used to be about 40 years to finish a New Testament.

[00:05:29] And sometimes, if they weren't careful, it might be in book form and just sit there and not get used. So they've focused on speeding it up as well as making it available in formats that they will use, maybe audio recordings or oral Bible translation.

[00:05:45] And with all the technology you just mentioned, in low-resource languages where AI is hung up a little bit because there's not enough data to put into it except from the translator's minds, we're looking at a whole Bible in less than 12 years. Wow. It's just amazing. One of the illustrations I've used around our table when we were hearing you speak is that if you ever go to the Museum of the Bible, and you know what I'm going to be talking about there, there's a room where they have all the Bible translations.

[00:06:16] And it has been interesting to go in there and pull up a Bible and say, well, I didn't know we had even something in that language, much less an entire Bible. But you also have some sort of dummy copies there. Yes. And it seems to me that that number has moved from 3,000 to about 470. And that is incredibly good news and just a testimony again to what is happening in the whole area of Bible translation.

[00:06:41] Yeah, praise God for that unity, collaboration, the Spirit moves in those things. And, you know, we have to decide who shouldn't get the Bible should be our question. And really no one shouldn't get the Bible. Again, we're going to take a break. But when we come back, I thought maybe you'd give us a perspective, too, on those numbers because we're now getting down to smaller and smaller numbers.

[00:07:05] So there has always been this idea that maybe the Lord would return when the word is preached to the entire world. And yet we still have some unreached people groups. We still have some individuals that have never heard the name Jesus, never actually been able to read the Bible in their language. So I thought I'd give you a chance to kind of explain a little bit more what that looks like.

[00:07:29] And most importantly, I'd be remiss if I did not talk to an individual that has worked all these years in fundraising and in the various aspects of service. Because that, I think, brings us back to the need for us to support these ministries and these organizations, ones that you used to work with in the past and those which are still out there making a difference. So I did want to give people a chance to know a little bit more about this whole idea and also get to know you as well.

[00:07:57] And for people to realize that we also have a link to this idea of outreach, not only to, of course, the English speaking world, but also the Spanish speaking world. And now how AI and artificial intelligence has made that even more successful in terms of actually being able to have almost instantaneous translation of videos and things of that nature. So let's take a break. We'll continue our conversation talking with Tony.

[00:08:26] Let me also open up the phones. I suspect maybe up until now you've had some questions about some of the things we've covered. If you'd like to join the conversation, that number is 1-800-351-1212. Talking about Bible translation and really making a kingdom impact. We'll continue that conversation right after this.

[00:09:00] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson. Former Congressman Jason Chaffetz remembers the first time his local grocery store asked him to join their loyalty program. He and his wife declined because they didn't want to give out their information. Slowly, over time, the benefits seemed to outweigh the nebulous risk. Soon they were also getting coupons and even noticed their savings listed at the bottom of their receipt.

[00:09:27] In his latest books, he calls this the privacy tradeoff. You can probably relate. Every day you're probably being asked to submit your information. In many cases, information is being collected from your phone, credit cards, and loyalty cards without you even knowing who has it or what they would do with it. When businesses collect this information, they use it to try to sell you more goods and services. When the government collects this information, they use it in a variety of ways. As someone who writes commentaries and books on social trends, I find the information useful.

[00:09:57] But there is another side to this data collection. The weaponization of information makes government surveillance much easier. Many in the deep state, often called the administration establishment, collect and weaponize private information. We've also seen how such information is being used by the Chinese Communist Party. We're also beginning to see how it is being used in the European Union. Jason Chaffetz acknowledges that President Trump may be in office, but the deep state continues to collect information.

[00:10:25] Even if bureaucrats are limited in their power that they exert, they partner with nonprofit and private sector groups who can censor, debank, and prosecute. That is why we need government guardrails that protect our privacy and limit the type of information government can collect. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my Point of View.

[00:10:49] Go deeper on topics like you just heard by visiting pointofview.net. That's pointofview.net. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Continuing conversation with Tony Pitanello as we are focusing for a moment, or more or at least, on this issue of Bible translation. Mentioned Word for the World, Seed Company. Of course, I mentioned Wycliffe and some of the others.

[00:11:18] And Tony, it does seem to me that this has been just kind of a new emphasis on technology. Because, as you point out, how long and tedious it was to make a translation available in a particular group. Now it seems to be speeding up. And the good news is that, as you know, you can travel anywhere around the world, and people have a smartphone.

[00:11:42] And they may not have all the latest technology, but they have the ability to read or to hear that particular part of God's Word in their language, either the New Testament or the entire Bible. And so this is just kind of a new day. And as an individual who has been raising funds in some respects, I think that probably makes your job a little easier, doesn't it? You know, that's great perspective, as usual.

[00:12:08] I want to say YouVersion, the Bible app, is one of the key partners. They post every translation that's done in the Bible translation movement. And in restricted countries, people could be at a coffee shop reading their Bible, and no one knows what they're reading. And for America, we can also use that Bible app, and we can have the Bible read to us in any one of multiple English versions.

[00:12:33] So it's really, that's actually a key piece of the Bible translation movement, is Life.Church and YouVersion. They should be mentioned as well. Well, let's talk about how we could use that right here, because you've been a missionary. You were called to be a missionary. You went overseas. But, you know, mission work can just happen at your local Starbucks. I mentioned Starbucks last hour, because you can run into individuals that come here. And I've run into individuals, for example, and I want to show them the Jesus film.

[00:13:02] And I said, well, just tell them what language. Okay, here we've got that one. You know, we can put it on a DVD. Oh, you'd like a Bible in your language? Well, here we go. Here, of course, you just mentioned that. And it does seem to me that whereas before we had to go on a boat in the old days or on an airplane, and in the old days of having a pith helmet and a passport and living there forever, and now, in some respects, the world is coming to us, and we can be involved in international ministries right in our own community, can't we?

[00:13:33] Oh, 100%. I can't tell you how many Uber drivers that spoke another language and maybe some broken English that have airdropped the Bible app with their language called up on it, so they could, and they'd say, wow, that is my language, and they could read the Bible. It was open right to John 3.16 when I sent it to them or another relevant passage for what we talked about. It's so easy nowadays to share our faith.

[00:13:59] So let's see what we can talk about how people can support that ministry. I mean, I know you don't necessarily work for any of these groups now, but you have, and it does seem to me that if people are saying, well, you're only down to about 473 left, well, but I think in that respect, that's why we really need to mobilize people to see this as a very significant way to reach out to the rest of the world and to get into those unreached people groups sometimes for the first time. Exactly.

[00:14:29] That's a great point. You know, the donors out there that I call investors, because they're investing their hard-earned money and the wealth that they gained with their talents and their brains into eternal rewards and eternal impact. And so any one of those Bible translation orgs, if someone was to just even Google, you know, Bible translation worldwide,

[00:14:53] they'd come up with any one of those orgs or illuminations or YouVersion, and giving to any of those is helping ensure that Bible poverty is alleviated, that people are hearing God speak to them in their mother tongue, the language their mother used when she held them, and that they're able to relate to God via Bible passages. Just incredible.

[00:15:22] Again, this is a great opportunity for people to be involved in that. And for just a minute, talk to maybe people that are interested in missions, maybe the mission pastor or something of that nature. Of course, you went with the International Mission Board. But it does seem to me that if we really want to talk about reaching the world for Christ, one very strategic part of that is Bible translation and then distribution of those Bibles to those key individuals.

[00:15:51] And it does seem to me that this is something that maybe needs to be front and center, maybe even at some of these mission conferences and even some of the things that maybe the mission pastor would address to the congregation. Yes, exactly. I think if a pastor, if a mission pastor or a pastor were to say, I hope you're enjoying today's sermon and what you're reading. Do you realize we actually have a tool called the blank Bible? And we'll hold it up in churches and we'll have somebody hand it to somebody and say,

[00:16:21] would you read John 316? And they'll look at its blank pages. And we can say, you know, that's somebody's Bible in the world. In other words, there's nothing in it. Yes. And should that be, is that not a travesty? And how can our church get involved? There's multiple ways. You know, you mentioned IMB. They're working in those realms. Every, I think every mission sending agency has a component of either. They're going to distribute or they're going to use an existing version

[00:16:48] or they're using solar powered proclaimers from Faith Comes by Hearing. The thing is, we got to remember, we're all one team. There really shouldn't be any competition or territorialism. We really are the kingdom. We really want people to have what we have, which is the best thing we could have, which is eternal life begins now. And it begins by knowing him through his word. Just before I let you go, I did want to also talk about, again,

[00:17:16] what you're doing through Media Group, because this is a great opportunity to reach out. In just a few minutes, we're going to be talking with Joe Arlenhouse about some of the outreach he's had to Hispanic voters. But here you have an opportunity to reach out to people in their native language, which is Spanish. And if you travel anywhere in Latin America, you recognize, with the exception of maybe Brazil, which is Portuguese, everything else is Spanish. And what a great and untapped mission field right in our own hemisphere.

[00:17:45] And, again, as an individual raising funds for that, what would you encourage individuals to do? Because there's a place when you go to the link that we have there for people to learn about the stations, to know how to donate. Of course, if they click on the picture there of you, we have a link to a couple of things, the Facebook link and all sorts of other things, the website. So if people would want to contact you or if people wanted to know more about the Media Group, give us a little bit of an overview.

[00:18:15] I love that opportunity. When you think about the last mile of delivery of electricity or water, it's usually the most difficult mile to bring it to every faucet, to bring it to every outlet. Our radio station, with 94% listenership and 84% referral rate, is mouth-to-ear, last mile of delivery of uplifting Christian music, the gospel, and Christian teaching, and we're driving Hispanics to church all over the world.

[00:18:43] So we have a shot at all 600 million Hispanics worldwide. And not only that, they're a gateway people. They're the fourth most spoken language in the world and a gateway people to the populations out there that a lot of Americans can't go to. Well, again, you know I believe in that because a good number of my books are in Spanish, and we've made that available. I attend a church where, of course, we have, I think now they say maybe the largest Spanish congregation in North America. So those are very great opportunities.

[00:19:13] But if nothing else, we can have a link to encouragementmediagroup.com. So if you'd like to know more about Tony, you can click on the picture there, and that will take you to his Facebook page. If you'd like to know more about the group that he's involved with and some of the other great people that I've known for literally decades, all of that is available at our website at pointofview.net. And so, Tony, I know you're a busy guy, but I figured if I could prevail on you to just maybe share a few of those great insights

[00:19:40] about the importance of Bible translation, it would be a real encouragement to our listeners. So thank you for joining us today here on Point of View. Kirby, thank you for all you do for the kingdom, for the word of God, and for our country. We're going to take a break, and when we come back, we're going to get into some of these other issues. Let me just mention, though, just thinking about this, you had about 3,000 languages untouched, and we're getting it down to 400 plus.

[00:20:07] That is encouragement, and I think that would be a reason for you to consider what you might do as well. Let's take a break, though. When we come back, Joe Arlenhouse is with us. I, first of all, of course, wanted to get some thoughts on his perspective about, as a Roman Catholic, what about Trump and the Pope? This is something we've covered before, and even we posted today a very good piece, I think, by Cal Thomas. But I'd like to get his thoughts on that.

[00:20:33] But also, as I mentioned just a minute ago, he is with Valor America, and the Valor America team has really been the most successful so far in reaching out to a number of individuals, especially with kind of the pro-life message. And I think that's going to be important. As a matter of fact, on our Friday conversation, we already have one article that talks about how some of the Hispanic voters are kind of leaving, if you will, the Trump orbit and the Republican orbit.

[00:21:01] And so that, I think, is going to be important to know what is being done behind the scenes to reach out to some of these individuals as well. So we're going to come back and at least get two very important points from him, individual we've known for many years. And, again, if you would like to know more about some of these guests that we are talking about, you can find all of it at our website, pointofview.net. I'll be right back.

[00:21:33] Where does moral truth come from? According to 58% of Americans, individuals determine moral truth. A quarter of Generation Z says society determines moral truth, and morality can even change over time. Only 42% of Americans believe that truth comes from God. I don't know about you, but I find these numbers extremely troubling. It really is a crisis of truth, and that crisis has consequences. Look at society.

[00:22:02] Evil is called good. Good called evil. People with biblical beliefs are called bigots, or worse, they're canceled. But there is hope. The Bible promises the truth will set us free, and that's why Point of View is relentless in our commitment to the ultimate source of moral truth, God's Word. At Point of View, we know that God's truth is eternal, and if we stand together, we can help more Americans apply His truth in their daily life.

[00:22:31] Help Americans find truth again by giving at pointofview.net, or call 1-800-347-5151. That's pointofview.net and 800-347-5151. Point of View will continue after this.

[00:23:00] You are listening to Point of View. The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now, here again, is Kirby Anderson. Next guest is Joe Arlinghouse, who again is running a project which is known as Valor America Super PAC,

[00:23:23] and I want to get into that first and talk about the fact that it's been just a very effective pro-life federal election outreach, and Newt Gingrich said it was the first conservative effort to master the science of data and experimentation. Very well done, and we'll talk about that, as well as we were talking just a few minutes ago with Tony Pitaniello about reaching out to the Hispanic community. Their team ran the most successful outreach to Hispanic voters, so we'll get into that.

[00:23:51] But also did want to talk with Joe about the issue of President Trump and the Pope. We've had some conversations about that even today. Of course, I posted a piece by Cal Thomas, but also a while back we've had another Catholic address this issue. And again, he is an individual that comes from a Catholic background and has studied political philosophy at the University of Dallas. And Joe, welcome back to Point of View. Kirby, it's great to hear your voice. I'm so grateful to be here.

[00:24:19] By the way, didn't I read recently that you had emergency surgery because of appendix or something of that nature? Well, it pleases me that you're reading emails from my team, but yes, I'm good now. It's been – I actually had three surgeries. The first one saved my life, but it took a couple more to fix everything the right way. I got a bad surgeon to start and a great one to finish. I'm in good shape now, though.

[00:24:46] Okay, well, I still encourage people to pray for you because I did see that and I was amazed. But before we get, of course, to the whole issue of Trump and the Pope, I thought for just a minute, let's re-educate our listeners about Valor America because this has been such a successful outreach. And in fact, we're in the midterms and people say, what about the Hispanic voter? And we even have a piece coming out on Friday where some people are saying, well,

[00:25:11] some of those people have moved away from the orbit and that does not bode well for pro-life Republicans. So talk about what you're doing to try to make sure that you get that message out to so many individuals in this country. Yeah, thanks, Kirby.

[00:25:26] You know, we stumbled onto the kind of revolution that happened in the Democratic election world about 20 years ago where they developed much more effective ways of determining the version of a message that was most persuasive. And we all know about their first big foray into this. It was that whole war on women attack they made back in 2012.

[00:25:51] We all remember, you know, Mitt Romney was sitting there just, you know, with his eyes wide open not realizing what George Stephanopoulos said. Hey, do you want women barefoot and pregnant and to ban contraception? And, you know, Mitt had no concept that this was literally being said to Stephanopoulos by smart scientists. Well, I stumbled onto this back in 2014, did a giant pro-life effort in Texas that moved about 18 percent of Hispanics from Democratic voting to Republican.

[00:26:21] It was a race for governor. It was a big success. But for me, it was more about figuring out that there are methods that our enemies, our opponents, I don't like the word enemy, but opponents use, to try to manipulate our voters to come their way. Okay. Well, it's not. I don't like the word manipulation, though that's really what they're doing. Really what I tell people is if you can find the right wording of the truth that the listener will understand.

[00:26:50] So in our case back then, it was telling Hispanics that this party, the Democratic Party, that they thought loved the poor and cared about, you know, food for children and schooling for little kids and all that, was in fact the party that wanted to rip babies from their mother's womb, like Trump said. And we were able to shock them enough that they said, what on earth? What am I doing voting for those guys? And so we're constantly looking in lots of races.

[00:27:19] It's not always Hispanics, although that is really an area. There is so much, you know, lack of sophisticated political knowledge in that community. I'm talking about Hispanic citizens, of course. But most of these are, you know, second generation or third generation people who are just barely integrated into our culture. And, in fact, to talk to them because they do kind of live in a subculture where they tend to still speak Spanish,

[00:27:48] you not only have to find the right wording, but you have to talk to them in a language they understand. You've got to talk to them in the right accent. So sometimes you've got a little gringa girl speaking her high school Spanish. Well, that doesn't persuade. But then if you get a nice Mexico City accent, they go, oh, this is one of my friends. This is one of my community. So I can listen to that truth.

[00:28:14] So we've searched for, through peculiar experiments, we search for the best way to talk, to tell the truth, the best message, the most persuasive message. And then we target it. It might be Hispanics. It might be black voters. It might be working class whites. It can be whomever. But we look for that community in this state or that state who's most open to conversion. That's what we're doing.

[00:28:39] It's political conversion, but it's still a big deal to make that conversion. Very well done. Again, we have a link to valoramerica.org. Three million voter targets in six states. It's already counting down 134 days to November. So, again, some of the revolutionary data science. And if you'd like to know more, that is on the website, pointofview.net. But I know that you have been interviewed on this whole issue of President Trump and the Pope.

[00:29:08] And I'd love to get your thoughts because I've tried to give people a platform to hear how that has gone and maybe to get some perspective. So share with us some of the things you've been talking about on other radio shows. Yes, Kirby. You know, I think there's two things that we Christians need to understand. The first one is that even though this is two men who have their opinions, it starts with a lot of people who are not our friends,

[00:29:36] not friends of Catholics, not friends of Protestants, not friends of Jews, who are trying to stir up this. So we always have to wonder, what is the other side doing to divide us? You know, at the end of the day, of course, it's the evil one himself that is the great divider. Right. And there's something in this that we should always be worried about. Now, you know, my first reaction just on the human side of the argument is these are both big boys.

[00:30:05] They're both world leaders on some level, obviously one of them the leader of the world in civic affairs. But they can handle a little bit of criticism. When I listen to some of my Catholic friends get all hot and bothered that, oh, how dare anyone criticize the Pope? I think, well, sorry, if that's your version of Catholicism, no. No, pastors, priests, bishops, popes, they're not always to be listened to and treated with kid gloves.

[00:30:34] No, sometimes there's even within Orthodox Catholicism, it is entirely appropriate to call out foolish comments. And, of course, you know, our president is not a Roman Catholic. There's no chance of holding him to the same standard maybe I'd hold myself to. But also I think his words were really inspired more by some liberal American bishops.

[00:30:58] There's three dudes who went on 60 Minutes a week ago who are not faithful Catholic men. I mean, I hate to tear down my own tribe too much, but these three are highly political folks. They're boomers from the 60s who are, you know, at the end of their time as bishops, thank goodness. And they're not just fighting Trump, but they're fighting something that's happening in American Catholicism that I'm sure most evangelicals wouldn't know about,

[00:31:26] which is a tremendous movement, especially among young Catholics, toward a traditionalism, an orthodoxy in doctrine, and a cultural conservatism. You know, when I was a kid, I'm 55, when I was a kid, the typical priest was a foolish Democrat. And, in fact, sadly, some of them were saying things that are so against the moral life of the Gospels.

[00:31:56] But today the typical priest is, in America at least, is quite different. He is deeply committed to the scriptures. He is very culturally conservative. He's pro-life to the core, and he may be a little bit politically disinterested because he's focused more on theology than politics. But insofar as he is politically active, he's almost certainly a Republican.

[00:32:23] The latest polls show priests under 40 are 80 percent Republican. I didn't know that. So this world – and those are the people talking to me, talking to people younger than me, my children. This is the – and it scares these old liberal bishops. So anyway, I just say that about – that's something going on behind the scenes. But, you know, I think the Pope also stepped in it in a couple of ways.

[00:32:47] I read Cal Thomas' article this morning, and, you know, I think it's very polite and kind to everyone involved. But truly, I don't mind, of course, pastors, even the chief Catholic pastors, saying, blessed are the peacemakers. My Lord, of course we should hear those words.

[00:33:09] And I think it's an important reminder anytime we're involved in conflict, anytime we're involved in, you know, the killing of war, to really, really, you know, dwell on – Sure. You know, are we where we should be? Are we going too far? But, of course, to say that all war is wrong would be not only foolish. It would violate every bit of tradition in Christian theology. Let's take a break.

[00:33:38] We have more to cover with Joe Arlenhouse, and we'll be back right after these important messages. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Back for a few more minutes.

[00:34:06] We are privileged to have with us a little bit longer, Joe Arlenhouse. And one of the things, Joe, I thought we might talk about is, as you point out, the fact that we have what is known as a just war criteria, which is found both in Catholic teaching and Protestant teaching. And we've had this idea that we would love to solve everything diplomatically, but when you are dealing with individuals who are seeking global domination

[00:34:33] or trying to implement the Third Reich or whatever that particular issue might be, diplomacy only gets you so far. And that's why, in some respects, as much as the Trump administration wanted to come up with some diplomatic solution, they simply were not going to allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon. Absolutely. You know, there is a long history, which we Protestants and Catholics share,

[00:35:01] of teaching on when can you attack someone and what are the limits of it. And, of course, it primarily starts with the great Augustine of Hippo and his writing on this matter at the end of the Roman Empire. But there is so much. And I think the most important thing that might have been overlooked by a few clerics was, this is a duty of the civil authority. This has always been understood. It is not the duty of pastors.

[00:35:29] It is not the duty of bishops and priests. It is the duty of the civil authority. Now, the leader, the king, the president, he has a great duty before God to make this prudential judgment, right, you know, to figure out what the right thing is. He will be judged for it. And all of these other voices are simply guides or advice. And there's been a long understanding of this. You know, when the pope spoke a little bit carelessly, I was tempted to, you know,

[00:35:59] I said out loud to myself, you know, he should go study the Battle of Lepanto, which the pope himself was the leader of when the Christians of Europe, mostly the Catholics, in 1571, I believe it was, attacked in advance the Mohammedans, as they would have called them, the Ottoman Turks who were coming to crush Catholicism, Protestantism alike in 16th century Europe.

[00:36:26] And there was an understanding, a clear understanding, that sometimes you must attack first. You know, it is not true, as some pacifists like to say, that the only war that's allowed is defensive war. Well, why would we have a just war theory if it was only to defend yourself? Who thinks you can't defend yourself? What fool would say you have to let people punch you in the head or stab you or shoot you?

[00:36:56] Anyway, there is, you know, what I've been happy about, and I'm sure the evangelical world isn't seeing this, but there have been some really powerful theological voices in Catholic America who have come out and spoken. There's a University of Texas philosopher, Jay Budaszewski, who has written probably the best defense of this and explained just war theory. Probably the most popular Catholic bishop in America is Bishop Robert Barron from Minnesota, who's got a big online ministry.

[00:37:25] And he has reminded, even though he has defended the pope's thumb and called for kindness and respect, he has also pointed out what I did about this is a civic authority decision, period, end of story. And, of course, who can act? You know, we sit here and we worry about nuclear war and say, well, we can't have just wars in the nuclear age. Well, of course we can to prevent a nuclear war from these fanatics.

[00:37:53] I mean, I was nine years old when they took over our embassy, and maybe it's an emotional reaction, but I deeply – I don't dislike Islam half as much as I fear the Iranian Islamists. Those ayatollahs, you know, I think they call it – is it 12-er Shiism, I think? Correct. I mean, those folks really want to take over the world. Yes. We need to stop that.

[00:38:22] And we can't give them – we can't even give them a dirty bomb. Forget about a nuclear weapon. They have no business having any enriched uranium. Again, you mentioned some names. Jay Budeshevsky has been on the program with us, Robert George, of course, at Princeton has been here, so we've certainly been able to hear from that. But going back to the conversation we had with, again, Paul Kinger, we can at least remember a time, and I guess since I'm the older one, maybe I can remember it better even than you,

[00:38:51] of where you have John Paul II, and you have Ronald Reagan, and you have Margaret Thatcher. And in some respects, I would wish, in the best of all worlds, that the President of the United States and the Pope could bring about some of the kinds of changes that need to take place. And that was a very significant alliance. But if nothing else, I think you've given us a good perspective on what has happened and how to think that through.

[00:39:18] So if people would like to maybe read more about that, you've given us a couple of ideas of things that we could read if we were wanting to get a little better perspective on that. So what would those be again? Well, I think the writing of Bishop Robert Barron on Just War, which is all over the Internet, is worth reading. It is not Catholic proselytism.

[00:39:40] And, of course, that article by Jay Budaszewski, which happens to be in a very Catholic publication called Catholic World Report, is also just its excellent exegesis that Martin Luther would love as much as any Catholic. And I do think we Christians, I know that we Catholics tend to pay a lot more attention to tradition and theologians and so forth.

[00:40:06] But, of course, it would be false to pretend that my Protestant brethren do not care about the opinions of great theologians of the past. So I think this just war theory is something we should all really be taking a moment to understand a little bit better so that we fully understand why this war is just. Or at least we study whether we believe it is just. There's a certain place for prudential judgment here, and some of us might.

[00:40:32] I mean, I'm not terribly happy with war generally, but this may be the war I'm most comfortable with in my lifetime. So enough said. Well, again, it's just been great to have you on the program. Again, we do have a booklet that we've made available on the death's war theory as well as a variety of other issues as well. So, Joe, thank you for what you do. Again, I would encourage people to go to your website. We have that link there so they can find out more about Valor America.

[00:40:59] And that is also very easy to find, valoramerica.org. And if you're wondering what's going to be happening in the midterms, well, some of these very effective outreaches, commercials, and other things come from the work that you and your organization is doing. So thank you for joining us today here on Point of View. And thank you for all you do, Kirby. Your ministry is a great blessing to the church. Well, let's see if we can take a break. And when we come back tomorrow, we have a couple of things to cover. The first is our good friend George Barnaby with us.

[00:41:28] And we're going to be talking about spiritual progress and regress of Gen Z. I think you're really going to appreciate that because he tries to, if you will, show a little bit of encouragement. But let's not overdo that, and we'll find out what we can and can't say. And why, even when we published an Outlook magazine a couple of months ago, we called it the rumblings of revival. The possibility of that. But let's not overplay it yet.

[00:41:56] But it gives us maybe some ideas on what we can do as individual Christians and what we can do as the church. Barry McGuire will be with us, and then we'll get into, of course, what's going on in China. We'll talk a little bit more about whether democratic socialists need a new model. That piece by Noah Rothman. I think you already got a preview of that today. And a very good piece coming out by John Stossel about socialism and capitalism. Of course, we have those booklets because we recognize the younger you are,

[00:42:26] the more likely you are to think socialism is better than capitalism. And that's why we feel that that is a topic we will continually have to address here on Point of View. So if you appreciate what we are providing, some of the interviews we've done today, some of the content we've put on the table, let me encourage you to go to the website. You can click on that button that says Donate. If you'd like to listen to it again, you can click on that button that says Watch or Listen. And most importantly, one more time, I thought I'd mention we are making available

[00:42:55] Declaration of Independence and Constitution. It's a booklet free of charge. We would certainly encourage you to get a copy of that. And we'd love to send it to you. As always, I want to thank Megan for her help engineering the program. Steve, thank you for producing the program. We'll see you back here on Point of View tomorrow right here on Point of View. Have you ever met a child you knew would do great things? They displayed remarkable imagination, understanding, and a zest for learning.

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