Point of View May 11, 2026 – Hour 2 : Mind Games Camp

[00:00:04] Across America, Live, this is Point of View, Kerby Anderson.

[00:00:20] Second Hour today, you know that if you listen to Point of View any length of time, we're really concerned about what happens to young people as they go off to college, also young adults as they go into the world and how in many cases they do not have a biblical worldview or if they do, it is affected by the world around them. So we're going to be talking about two different programs, the Mind Games Camp, which is going to take place next month and still time for you to register for your children or grandchildren to go.

[00:00:49] Or of course, if you're listening right now, you might want to go as well. And of course, we're also going to talk about a program that exists in the church. But I thought especially since on Friday we got talking about the fact that we had a group of pastors that were briefed recently by the federal government about the disclosure of UFOs and extraterrestrials that there was a real concern about how Christians would react.

[00:01:13] And I did mention that on Monday, it was going to have Dr. Ray Bolan in studio that, it's hard to believe this, wrote this piece 24 years ago. Are we alone in the universe? Also, I did mention this book, which is something that you might want to find out about. Again, the lights in the sky and little green men and all sorts of answers that people have given. So if you go to the website right now, you'll see Dr. Ray Bolan's piece. You also see one by Casey Luskin.

[00:01:43] And he is somebody we've had on the program and is with the Discovery Institute. We'll explain more about that in just a minute. Dr. Ray Bolin is vice president of vision outreach for Probe Ministries, has his doctorate from the University of Texas at Dallas, author of a number of books, and also a research fellow with the Discovery Institute Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture. Great to have you in studio. Thank you, Kevin. Glad to be here.

[00:02:05] And Sue Bolan, a speaker and writer for Probe Ministries as well, an individual we've had on many times to talk about gender issues and the rest. And, of course, an individual that has been outreaching to all sorts of different groups. So always good to have you as well. It's such a blessing to be here. You missed an important part of her bio here. It says she loves teaching women and laughing. Yes. Well, laughing for sure. Well, should I read the one here about she's never been on a cruise she hasn't liked?

[00:02:34] So there we go. As you can gather, we're going to have a lot of fun. But before we get to mind games, and we will get to that very quickly, Ray, I thought I'd come to you for just a minute because there are all sorts of stories. I've got, as you can see here, pieces of paper from people wondering how churches would react. Here's one from our friend Jeremiah Johnston. Here's one here from the Free Press. What should smart people think about UFOs? And, again, we're not necessarily making a comment about aliens per se,

[00:03:02] but your piece on are we alone in the universe is, I think, not only an emphasis on intelligent design, but also a reality that there may not be any little green men out there. So what do we know? I've always wondered, why does everybody think they're green? Why are they little? Anyway, well, the answer to the question really is kind of twofold.

[00:03:30] The first word that comes to mind is, well, that depends. Yes. If you're relying upon a naturalistic origin to other lives, lives on other planet, life on other planets, that's simply out of the question. The probabilities against life originating on its own simply by chemistry are astronomical and just out of reach.

[00:03:55] And even the possible number of planets that could be suitable for life is astronomically small, much smaller than one chance intended to minus 140 or so power. It's a decimal point followed by 140 zeros and a decimal point and a one afterwards. And so if that's what you're relying upon, then my statement was, no, there's no other life out there.

[00:04:24] But God is free to choose to create life anywhere he wants. But the thing about that is that the Bible doesn't tell us anything about any kind of extraterrestrial life. And so even if they're out there, we're not likely going to contact them. Otherwise, the Lord would have provided some sort of warning or hint. But there's nothing like that in all of Scripture.

[00:04:50] Well, again, Casey Luskin is an individual that you know. And he talks about this idea as well. And he says, I don't know if ET life exists, but as a Christian, it wouldn't bother me. And it was interesting, Sue, that the concern on the part of the federal government was, is that if indeed we start releasing some of the UFO evidence, that the people that would be most troubled by that would be Christians. And I don't have to say. Yeah, what about that?

[00:05:19] Well, Christians are so biblically illiterate. Most of them aren't going to know what the Bible says about extraterrestrial life. What does it say? Absolutely nothing. Yeah. Actually, Christians should be well-equipped to deal with ETs or UFOs or aliens popping up

[00:05:41] simply because we should not be surprised that there are non-human entities who live in a different dimension other than the one we live in. And so if an alien were to show up at our door, I would say, you don't fool me. You're a demon. And you're trying to fool people.

[00:06:05] And so I honestly believe all these UFO and alien sightings are demonic presences. Yeah. I think that a lot of people have sort of thought that. But anyway, I just wanted, if nothing else, to illustrate that you might say, well, these are not the kind of questions we talk about in the church. Those are the kind of questions we do talk about at the Mind Games Camp because you have a little box in the back where people can ask any question they want, right? We do.

[00:06:32] We have not an Xbox but an Ask box with blank index cards and pens inside. And we invite our high school students to come who are with us for a week, once a year, to ask anything they want. Last year, I made the mistake of saying that in over 30 years of doing Mind Games Camps,

[00:06:58] we've never encountered a question that we hadn't seen before that we couldn't answer. Well, we had students take that as a challenge, you know, and suddenly we were getting questions, a lot of them about angels and demons. So that will be what I'm talking about during our alumni track. But we welcome doubts and questions and, well, any kinds of questions.

[00:07:25] We want to help build their confidence that Christianity is true. And that's one of the ways we do it. Let me first of all mention that we have a link to mindgamescamp.com. And, of course, there's also one there as well. This is taking place from Sunday, June 14th to Saturday, June 20th. And it's at Camp Copas. And, again, we have information about the cost and the opportunities and the ages. We're going to come back after the break and get into that in some detail.

[00:07:55] We're going to talk about what a typical week looks like. But also we're going to open up the phones, one, because some of you might have some questions. Also, we want to hear from the vice president of advancement for Dallas Theological Seminary, who actually sent her kids to this. And as an expert in the educational field, I thought it would be great to hear from her. We're going to hope and have her in studio. But I think she's in Minnesota today.

[00:08:19] But she's a busy person and is the one that actually works on the fundraising for Dallas Theological Seminary. So let's take a break. When we come back, we're going to talk a little bit about the Mind Games Camp. Then we do want to talk about Periscope, because this is a program you can have in your own church, a 49-day journey. And we'll talk about that. We have links to both of those on the website. We'll be back right after this.

[00:09:00] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson. A recent report from the Justice Department documents the previous administration's weaponization of the FACE Act against pro-life individuals and organizations. FACE stands for Freedom to Access Clinic Entrances and applies to both pro-abortion and pro-choice facilities. Jeremy Dice of First Liberty Institute explains that after the Supreme Court ruled in the case of Dobbs v. Jackson,

[00:09:29] angry mobs took out their frustration on pro-life America with spray paint threats of violence and with vandals throwing Molotov cocktails at pregnancy care centers. The FACE Act should be applied to any reproductive health center, whether it is pro-abortion or pro-life. The Justice Department had the opportunity to deploy FACE evenly. A new report from the Office of Legal Policy at the U.S. Department of Justice reveals that it did not.

[00:09:54] What is even more concerning is the fact that the Biden DOJ routinely colluded with pro-abortion groups like Planned Parenthood and the National Abortion Federation. He explains that rather than investigate these groups about how they obtained this personal information, the Biden administration used it to prosecute pro-lifers and then denied them the information they could have used in court. It's also worth noting that the FACE Act also protects houses of worship from violence. Despite pressure from the U.S. Senate,

[00:10:24] the report documents that the Biden DOJ did not pursue a single FACE Act case involving houses of worship during this time. The report highlights the selective enforcement of the FACE Act and was an obvious abuse of power. It should never happen again. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:50] Go deeper on topics like you just heard by visiting pointofview.net. That's pointofview.net. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Once again, we're going to be spending a little bit of time talking about the Mind Games Camp again, just for your benefit, from June 14th to June 20th. You can go to mindgamescamp.com or you can go to probe.org.

[00:11:19] Either place will get you there. There are videos. There are information. There's a typical daily schedule. And, Sue, for just a minute, since I called on you to kind of give an overview, could you give us an idea of what a week looks like there? And then I want to talk to a mom that sent her kids to Mind Games Camp. So the week is set up with about 21 different teaching sessions, and it starts with classic worldview, laying the foundation about worldviews,

[00:11:49] the big buckets of understanding where are people coming from, Christian theism, what we believe, naturalism, the idea that there is nothing other than the physical material universe, and then pantheism, that all is one, all is God. That foundation. Then we have classical apologetics. How can we be confident of why there is a God, why we can trust the Bible, and why Jesus is divine?

[00:12:17] And then after that, we build in cultural apologetics, how to plug in the Bible's teachings to a wide range of topics, everything from sexuality to several science topics that Dr. Ray teaches, how to watch a movie, and differences between guys and girls, some very practical things.

[00:12:42] And that includes watching two movies together with their brains turned on, having s'mores one night. So there's a lot of playtime built in. Pool every day. Lots of time to just hang out and be with people and connect face-to-face rather than over phones. And so that's the big picture of what we do.

[00:13:08] Ray, let me come to you for just a minute because I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that Sunday night there is an event that really is helping the students realize how much they don't know because you show up as a professor asking some pretty tough questions, right? You know, I oppose myself as a professor who's doing research on the religious beliefs of young people. And so the coordinators were kind enough to let me come and talk to you.

[00:13:37] And I just have a few questions. I understand everybody here is a Christian. If anybody shakes their head no, okay, I likely won't talk to them. But everybody says, yeah, I'm a Christian. So I just walk up to somebody and say, okay, you, what's your name? Are you a Christian? Yeah. Why? The look on their face when I just say why. It's right off the bat. Well, I asked Jesus in my heart, why did you do that? What are you doing in there with all the blood and stuff? That's gross, you know, and it doesn't take long before they don't want to talk to me anymore.

[00:14:07] And if somebody was in the background giggling, I said, oh, you. So you think this is funny? Are you a Christian? So nobody giggles after that. But it illustrates the fact that sometimes they know the what but not the why, right? They know they are convinced they're a Christian, but they don't have any real reason to tell me why. Why did you make the – I sometimes ask, you made a decision, right? Yeah. Why did you make that decision?

[00:14:34] Well, because my parents – oh, well, then the guy over in India, his Hindu parents, they're just fine too, right? Because that's what their parents taught them. I had one guy actually say, well, yeah. Yeah, and the youth minister was nearby and he just kind of put his head in his hand and said, oh, my goodness, what did he just say? So it's all intended to give them a glimpse why they need to be at this camp. Yes. We will provide plenty of reasons why you are a Christian,

[00:15:04] why it's – the evidence backs it up fully. One of my favorite sessions is one of those first apologetic sessions, and that's the existence of God. Yeah. It just walks through so many different things, not just science-related things, but – and it's a lot of fun for that week. It is a lot of fun for us. Well, again, this is the Mind Games Camp, and I thought it would be good to hear a testimony. And so April Morton is an individual who is the vice president of advancement

[00:15:33] for Dallas Theological Seminary, and we have known her for some time. So, April, thank you for joining us today here on Point of View. Thank you for having me. It's good to be with you. Well, I guess the obvious question would be, how did you first hear about the Mind Games Camp? Wow. I believe that I heard about the Mind Games Camp decades ago.

[00:15:56] And it goes back to, I think, with you, Kirby, and Jerry Solomon, when my husband and I were in Dallas. And I was looking actually for a place to serve. We were newly married. And I think I volunteered for an early Mind Games weekend back then. And so that's the first time I heard of Mind Games, just through pro ministry and then serving when we lived in Dallas.

[00:16:19] Well, again, I'd love to know more about sending your kids, because it seems to me that that's why I wanted to have you to come on. Of course, you've gone on to incredible opportunities here at Dallas Theological Seminary. And, of course, you meet young people that really have convictions. But you also, I think, understand that sometimes when you're late teens heading off to college or heading out into the world, there's a lot of doubt and uncertainty.

[00:16:49] And so talk about how that had an impact on your kids. Well, I knew that I wanted my children, when we had them, to attend the Mind Games conferences. My husband and I, Sam, we tried to be really strategic about certain things that we introduced into their lives. And we knew that when the time came, we wanted them to attend a Mind Games conference. We were raising them in a Christian home. We had them at church. They were going to summer camp.

[00:17:17] But I had begun a ministry and a career in higher education. And I knew my experience going to college really tested my faith, especially on a campus that was not a Christian environment. So I knew that those kiddos needed to have that foundation. And so we made the decision that we were going to get them to a Mind Games conference, which had grown into this wonderful week-long experience for them.

[00:17:44] And so they were, I think they were 15 and 16 when they attended. And we had to encourage them to go. To be honest, they weren't super excited initially. In fact, my daughter called it conversion camp. And she said, my parents are sending me to conversion camp. And so we kind of bribed them a little bit. We sent them on solo flights to Dallas. And they went. And they both came back.

[00:18:14] And they were really quick to say, it's not at all what we expected. And they had a great time. My daughter especially connected with Sue. And she loved hearing her stories. They felt like they were with peers. And it was a safe environment. And they weren't being preached at. They were allowed to ask questions and to delve into the why.

[00:18:38] And particularly my son, who was very much in the STEM field, he was very interested in science. And he said, we got to explore science and philosophy while upholding our worldview. We were taught how we could do that. And our beliefs were not challenged. We were actually invited into the conversation of what it means to believe and why. And they did talk about watching the movies.

[00:19:04] And they said, we felt equipped afterwards to, and I've watched them do this, watch a film and understand what is actually a messaging behind the film, the why, how to engage culture. And so they returned, I think, uplifted. And they both went on to have some of their own faith journeys after that. But the Mind Games Conference solidified some of the foundations that they had, that they have today as they walk with the Lord.

[00:19:34] April, we are so, so grateful that you sent your kids. It was in 2020. The whole world had shut down, but we kept the Mind Games Camp going. And it was such a blessing to have them there and to watch their hearts warm up throughout the week. And their cups were right side up to receive what we had to offer.

[00:20:02] It was just such a wonderful blessing to have them there. And I'm so encouraged to hear the fruit of that week in your lives. And particularly, so glad that you and Sam were not disappointed. Well, April, we're going to have to take a break here. But I'm hoping sometime we can get you in studio because I'd love to talk about all the things going on at Dallas Theological Seminary. But I know you're out of town.

[00:20:28] But I appreciate you just taking a few minutes to call in and give us your testimony. Yes. Well, thank you so much for having me. And I do highly recommend the Mind Games Conference. It was wonderful. Godspeed on your week coming up in June, Bolin. Thank you. Thank you so much. We're going to take a break. And when we come back, we'll get into cost. Is there a scholarship? Yes, there is. Are there some opportunities?

[00:20:52] And before we're done, I do want to talk about another program that you can use in your church, all of those coming up. But as we are going to a break, perfect time maybe if you want to check this out, go to mindgamescamp.com. And that's something where even if you don't have a young person in your sphere of influence, you probably know somebody who does.

[00:21:13] And you might want to pass the link on to them to know that there is an opportunity coming up June 14th to the 20th right here in the Dallas area. We'll talk more about that right after these important messages. It was not that long ago that censorship appeared to be almost inevitable. Free speech was being attacked and strangled in many places.

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[00:23:00] You are listening to Point of View. The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now, here again, is Kirby Anderson. Back once again, if you'd like to join the conversation, maybe you have a question, 1-800-351-1212. Sit back and take some notes. But again, if you know someone that would benefit from the camp, there is still an opportunity for you.

[00:23:29] And we're giving you a month notice. And that, I think, is why many people have said, well, I'd love to know a little bit more about that. That's why we're covering that today. And in studio with us, Ray and Sue Bolin. And Dr. Ray Bolin, let me for just a minute talk about the fact that you and I have both spoken at other conferences. And I'm a firm believer in doing anything you can to prepare young people for college, to prepare young people for a hostile world. When we first joined, there was a little brochure that we had,

[00:23:59] will your kids go off to college and lose their faith? So this is not a new phenomenon. But I think the culture has come even more against them. But there are some uniquenesses about this Mind Games camp. Can you speak to that? Well, there's a couple of them, Kirby. For one thing, it's getting more difficult to convince young people that this is something they should do or might even want to do. As we even heard just early with the caller, her kids weren't that interested in going either.

[00:24:28] And if it's going to be more than one week, two weeks, three weeks, that's a harder sell for a young person. And Mind Games is one week, and that also means it's probably less than half the cost. So it's a little bit less expensive than the other longer camps. And we're convinced we can accomplish just about everything the longer conferences can. We've got very experienced speakers, very well-qualified people in these various areas that we're presenting on.

[00:24:59] And we've also been doing it for a very long time. And so there's a lot of familiarity for us. There's just a lot of confidence in what we're presenting. Yes. Well, and the age range, I think, is important because those of us around the table are older, but you also have younger people teaching there as well that are close to the age of the students. So in some respects, they get both peers and even grandparents, if you will, speaking to these issues. And that's helpful.

[00:25:28] And you also don't just speak and leave. You're actually sitting around the tables at breakfast, lunch, and dinner, aren't you? Yeah. In some of the other camps, the students are eating off by themselves. And so it's just students at the tables. But we spread ourselves out around the tables in the cafeteria. And so we're available to students, not just during the presentations and Q&A time, but right there at mealtime. Yes.

[00:25:53] And, Sue, I think since we broadcast nationwide, I know that there are people that have come from Alaska, come from northeast. From Mexico. Yeah. There you go. So even out of the country. So the opportunity is great. And some people might say, well, cash is tight, but we do have scholarships for some of the individuals that actually could qualify. Thanks to Interstate Batteries. They have given us some funding for scholarships.

[00:26:23] And at mindgamescamp.com, there's a link to the online scholarship request form. And we are delighted. We've never had to say no to anyone in the years we've been doing the Mind Games Camp. And so we have been gifted with the money to be able to say don't let finances get in the way.

[00:26:50] Of course, we're not able to pay anyone's airfare, but we are able to provide assistance, and we are so grateful for that. And, again, I know some that have said, well, we'll drive you there, drop you off, go tour, and then come pick you up. So there are some things in which you can make it a family affair. So, again, we have a link to mindgamescamp.com. And if you have questions about that, if you want to follow up or call you, that's a way in which they can do that.

[00:27:18] But I thought for just a few minutes some of you might say, well, okay, I don't have a young person going off to college, but we have a number of young people that we're trying to reach the millennial generation, generation Y, or now generation Z. And Ray Boland, you're vice president of Vision Outreach. And you came up with this idea years ago that we need to put together a week of a whole, if you will, sermon series, videos, and the rest, which now has the name Periscope.

[00:27:47] And it's a 49-day journey that you can implement in your church. And all of the material that you would need to implement that in your church is online. And we have a link to it on pointofview.net, or you can just go to upperiscope.com. Talk about that if you mind. Well, we began noticing that there seemed to be less and less interest in what pro-ministries had to provide. Worldview and apologetics, churches just didn't seem to be that interested.

[00:28:15] Even our weekend mind games conferences, registrations, and scheduling was dropping. And so we contacted the Barna Group, and we asked them to do a survey for us. And I have to understand here, this can get a little confusing. George Barna founded the Barna Group, but he's no longer with them. They still call themselves the Barna Group. So George Barna still does his own surveys and things.

[00:28:40] And what we wanted to find out is what's the stage of belief of young people in America. I think we had 18 to 29 and 30 to 39, two different age groups. And we were really shocked. Yeah. And that for the most part, Barna has a standard six questions they've used to determine if you have a Christian worldview.

[00:29:07] And I might not remember all six of them here, but there's a creator God who's still in control today. Jesus lived a sinless life. The Bible is accurate in all it proclaims. Satan. Satan is a being, not just an idea. You know the other two? Absolute values. Absolute truth. Yeah. Absolute truth. Right. Anyway, and of our two, less than about 30% agreed with all six of those.

[00:29:35] When you started adding in other questions about how do you practice your faith? How often do you attend church? How often do you read your Bible? Those sorts of things. The number dropped down to one in 25. We not only have a Christian worldview, but actually practice it. And now with later surveys that have been done, it's gotten even worse over the years.

[00:29:57] So with Periscope, the idea is, I love the imagery here, is that as a Christian, like a submarine, you're immersed in the culture. You're underwater. And you need something to help you see what's outside of the culture. So the Periscope allows you to see above the water. And so the idea, the tagline is, see above, live beyond. Right. And so, like I said, it's a seven-week experience, as we've sometimes called it.

[00:30:26] There's a sermon series. There's a 49-day devotional commentary that you wrote, Kirby wrote. And there's music that goes along with it. And it's simply to help reintroduce churchgoers to this whole concept of a Christian worldview and that your faith is something you can rely on. It's true.

[00:30:52] And we now know that there have been hundreds of churches that have put this into practice. Unfortunately, we don't have any statistics to indicate what kind of impact it had on those different churches. We never really put any kind of strategy together concerning that. But the fact that it's been used extensively is very encouraging to us. I just mentioned, too, if you go to the website, you can see how you can have something for the entire church. Yes. We have seven sample sermons that relate to the book.

[00:31:21] You also have a place where you could do small group. You can actually watch some of the videos. And none of us old people are on the videos. All the young people are relating to other young people about these issues. And in some respects, you've identified what are some of the places where the faith falls off. You know, one of those, interesting enough, is Satan. Another one is biblical absolutes. You have most young people say, oh, I believe in God or I believe Jesus.

[00:31:47] But when it comes to do I believe that there is a real Satan or demonic? Well, I'm not so sure about that. Do I believe that there are things that are absolutely right and absolutely wrong? And so in some respects, these are really taking what you've identified and Barna has identified and all sorts of other research, Lifeway and a variety of others, and begin to provide some alternatives so that you can show the videos, you can hear the sermons, you can go through the experience.

[00:32:17] And the good news, it's all on the website now. So whereas before you had to contact us and get books and all sorts of things, it's basically plug and play, isn't it? Yeah. And also you can do it as an individual. You don't have to be part of a small group or part of a church. You can do it on your own. And so, again, I wanted people to know that that's another link there. So if you scroll down, you're going to see something that says Periscope, the 49-day journey.

[00:32:42] If you click on that, then, first of all, you can watch a video that introduces you to it. You can see some sample videos. You can see some of the small group resources. And I might just also mention, we come back from the break, Sue, some people might say, okay, I've got all these materials. How can I teach it? You've been videotaping us teaching it. So you can then learn from how to actually produce some of that.

[00:33:08] So if you find yourself saying, well, I know some young people going off to college or they're going into the world and they might benefit from a MindGamesCamp, well, we've given you a link there to MindGamesCamp.com. If you are saying, I'd really like to motivate some of the young people in our church with something that has great videos and great material, even music that goes with it as well, from, I think it was Dove Award-winning artist and things like that,

[00:33:34] you can go to UpPeriscope.com and we'll talk about how to use all that right after these important messages. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:34:04] Back for a few more minutes. Let me just sum up real quickly. We were talking about MindGamesCamp. You can go to MindGamesCamp.com. I noticed one of the links don't work. So just type in MindGamesCamp.com. You'll get there. And, Sue, first of all, you're going to find out that it's June 14th to the 20th. We can talk about cost, talk about the age of the students. But I thought something we didn't mention, and that is we've already talked about Dr. Ray Boland dressing up as a professor. Well, he shows up as a scientist later on, so you do some role play as well.

[00:34:32] So this isn't just sitting in a lecture hall hearing lectures. There are opportunities for them to go out and play peewee golf or, you know, miniature golf, I guess it is, as well as the pool and all sorts of other things. There are opportunities to just really have a chance to think through that. But also, you use a lot of visuals, and you also have role play as well, don't you? We do because we want to diversify the ways in which we teach.

[00:35:02] One of the most memorable things we do early on to show them how important it is to have a correct worldview is we ask for volunteers to put on drunk buster goggles. So these are goggles that approximate drunk driving, and so we toss them a ball. We have them do an obstacle course around chairs without anything at all on their face.

[00:35:30] And then we put these goggles on, and they realize, you know, now it's double vision, and they're stumbling all over the place, and we're pointing out that you have to have the correct perspective in order to do well in life, and that a biblical perspective is like taking off the drunk, we call them beer goggles. And having that kind of experience kind of brings it home.

[00:35:59] We talked about age. It's generally starting around age 15 up to about 21, although we've had some highly motivated 14-year-olds who loved it more than anybody, so it depends on the student. In terms of cost, it's $695 for the week, which is a bargain. We're not making a lot of money. Actually, we're not making any money on this. We're covering our expenses.

[00:36:28] But as we mentioned earlier, you know, there is scholarship funding available for that as well. And for the last several years, I've been bringing Probe's GoPro camera, and we're in the process of putting together more and more videos. Actually, Ray and I just finished teaching a year's worth of classes to homeschoolers using the Mind Games topics,

[00:36:56] and there are 30, I believe there's 32 of those are on the Probe website, so people can see what we cover during the Mind Games camp at probe.org. So we're really trying to do more and more in terms of video, simply because that's the world we live in now. Again, probe.org. Of course, we're talking about mindgames.com and upperiscope.com, so lots of resources.

[00:37:23] Dr. Ray Bull, let me come to you for just a few minutes because one of the other things is the real need. If you go to this Periscope link that we have, we talk about this idea of see the threat, cultural captivity. Now, that is all based on the idea that in Colossians 2.8, it says that we should not be taken captive, and yet the evidence that comes from whether it's Dave Kinnaman at the Barna Group or whether it's George Barna at Arizona Christian University,

[00:37:53] whether it's LifeWay, the Southern Baptist Research Arm, whether it is some of the people out of Baylor, they're all saying the same thing. We have a generation that has been taken captive by the culture. Fair? Yes, and taken captive to agree this never happened before. Right. And by that, I mean part of the culture is that everybody's entitled to their own perspective on different things. Okay?

[00:38:21] And it's really a faux pas if you try to show somebody that your particular view is correct because then you're saying the other person's correct and the view is incorrect. And you just don't do that anymore. And so for a lot of Christians to think about defending their faith, well, they don't want to do that because they don't want to offend people.

[00:38:45] And so this whole idea of apologetics just seems like this far off never-never land. You should never go there. And, you know, as I said earlier, it used to be 1 in 25 actually had a Christian worldview and actually lived it out. Now it's down to about 1 in 100. Yes. And that's – we're not going to – there's not going to be a revival anytime soon if that's the way things continue to go.

[00:39:15] And how can we entice someone into the concept of trusting Jesus when you won't really even believe that much of it yourself? Did Jesus live a sinless life? Well, if you don't think that, well, then what's the point of Jesus? Well, it's not going to be a problem. So we're really in a point of crisis, and it's just – it's not getting any better. It's getting worse. And we're here as Probe to try to fight that. We're fighting uphill.

[00:39:45] We have hordes coming down at us. And – but we continue to struggle, and we'll continue it until we can't do it anymore. What I think is so interesting, Sue, is we sometimes talk about the fact that a lot of this evidence is coming our direction. We've already this year done two different interviews on archaeology, and we have a third one coming up very soon. And that's because so much of the evidence for the Christian faith is coming our direction.

[00:40:13] Looking at your husband here, all the evidence coming from intelligent design. And, again, I might commend to people to go and see the film that Discovery Institute has put together, The Story of Everything, because whether you go to one of these films, whether you read one of these books, whether you listen to some of the things at Probe Ministries or at Point of View or at the Colson Center or wherever it might be, the evidence is coming our direction.

[00:40:38] So at a time when we have more evidence for our faith, we also see more young people leaving the faith because they don't believe in it. And we need to make that connection, don't we? We do. And we need to live out the difference that the indwelling Christ makes in how we think and how we live.

[00:40:59] And so it's so important to live an authentically biblical life where people can see that there's something different about us as opposed to being shaped by the culture around us. We are grateful to have the opportunity to have done this for over 50 years with you, friend Kirby. We agree.

[00:41:24] Although, as Ray said, we're going in uphill battles, but as in the words of Mother Teresa, God has not called us to success but to faithfulness. And so we are seeking to be faithful. And we're so grateful for the opportunity to make this available to people at Mind Games, at Periscope, on our website, even through Point of View Radio. So, again, I rattled off a lot of the websites, and you're going to say, okay, can I keep these in my head?

[00:41:54] Go to pointofview.net. Under Sue Bolin, that one will take you to probe.org. And then if you scroll down under Ray Bolin, that one will take you to Mind Games Camp. And the one under that will take you to Periscope. So even though we've pointed you to three different websites, when in doubt, just go to probe.org, and you'll find everything you need to go to find there. And, again, if you would like to see some of the videos, you can go to YouTube.

[00:42:19] Some of them are out there, and I've seen some of them from various conferences and things of that nature. So take the time to find those as well. Well, I want to say, both of you, thank you for coming in for today. And I want to say thank you for listening to Point of View. If you found yourself saying, okay, I really would like to know a little bit more, we have all sorts of links on the website, a link to the interview we did last hour on Celebrating God, Our Founder, which is Cynthia Scott.

[00:42:45] If you'd like to know more about all of the resources we made available to you on the website, simply go to pointofview.net. I think you'll find all of that very helpful. Just before we wind down for today, let me first of all say, again, thanking to Megan, all the work she does as an engineer. Steve, thank you for producing the program. Look forward to seeing you tomorrow right here on Point of View.

[00:43:13] The Bible tells us not to worry, and yet there is a lot of worrying stuff in our world today. Thankfully, the Bible doesn't stop at telling us not to worry. God gives us a next step. He says we need to pray. But sometimes even knowing what to pray can be difficult, And that is why Point of View has relaunched our Pray for America movement,

[00:43:41] a series of weekly emails to guide you in prayer for our nation. Each week, you'll receive a brief update about a current issue affecting Americans, along with a written prayer that you can easily share with others. We'll also include a short free resource for you in each email, so you can learn more about the issue at hand. Will you commit to Pray for America?

[00:44:08] Go to pointofview.net. Click on the Pray for America banner at the top of the page to subscribe. Again, that's pointofview.net. Click on the Pray for America banner. Let's pray together for God to make a difference in America. Point of View is produced by Point of View Ministries.