Point of View March 13, 2025 – Hour 2 : The Millennial Round Table

[00:00:04] Across America, live, this is Point of View. And now your host for the Millennial Round Table, Chelsea Yolen.

[00:00:22] Well, welcome back to our second hour of Point of View, the Millennial Round Table today. We are continuing on with Liberty McCarter, but joining us this hour is Alyssa Sonnenberg. She's the Executive Assistant, Host, Writer and Manager of the Self Evident Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today, Alyssa. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here.

[00:00:44] We're excited to have you back. We have a ton to cover today. In the last hour, we discussed news out of the IVF policy world where Liberty and I broke down some ethical considerations there. We also talked about what's going on in Syria, and some guidance that Liberty did such a great job helping us on deciphering the difference between education and information and propaganda or indoctrination, which is a topic we love to discuss.

[00:01:25] We'll see you next time. We'll see you next time.

[00:02:37] We'll see you next time. We'll see you next time. We'll see you next time. We'll see you next time. We'll see you next time. Bye-bye.

[00:03:07] Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

[00:03:36] I'm going to start with you, Alyssa. yeah absolutely i mean ever since 1994 when gaza was given to palestine they have been essentially living in what you are describing they're living in tents they're living in horrible conditions and that kind of related to one of the things that has been being talked about in israel

[00:03:59] as a possible reason for a for a possibility that would cause a ceasefire even a way to end the war in gaza and 73 percent of jews in israel actually see removing palestinians entirely from that region as a very real possibility one of the caucus co-chairmen of israel his name is simsha roffman i hope i'm saying that correctly and he's a lawmaker in israel's governing coalition and he told the npr

[00:04:28] that getting the population out of there because they're in grave danger when they stay there and they pose a grave danger to us when they are there it makes sense so we see that most israeli jews in that region desire to see that land kind of refurbished into what it used to be and given you know a revamp so to speak yes that is that is what they're describing um is removing the

[00:04:56] population of course that was met with significant backlash liberty um on whether or not you know they're i'm not going to use the propaganda terms because i don't think they're fair but what you essentially have is a refugee crisis in gaza where there are two million civilians and a really unsafe uninhabitable space um not only what do we do with them what we've got to clean out the space make it safe make sure there's not bombs um eradicate hamas is one of the goals of that israel has and then

[00:05:25] the question would be moving i guess the population back in after reconstruction um egypt and jordan are major allies in the region soundly rejected that proposal and so is recently as today and yesterday president trump said look i'm not going to push that as an issue it was a solution i proposed um to get us talking about what are we going to do with this this area of land right liberty

[00:05:48] right and i understand people's hesitance when you talk about uh essentially and i know that um some have said well it could be an optional you know move but and a lot of people are talking about forcibly having um the residents of the gaza strip moved and so obviously that comes with a lot of connotations of whether or not that's right but hamas is the issue because even for the innocent civilians who live

[00:06:13] there their lives are being made miserable by hamas and so you know it gosh it's complicated and it has been for centuries for millennia and so um just this this issue over this area of the world um and and so that's that's the core of it and so i i do think it was interesting when trump proposed that since he and

[00:06:37] his administration are advocating more of a isolationist um you know view when it comes to our foreign relations and foreign affairs and how we're going to be involved in the world and then well let's just go ahead and you know take over gaza strip i don't know how realistic that was but trump does tend to make these grandiose statements in order to get a conversation going or to get people to start acting and so um hopefully we will see some progress with different leaders from around

[00:07:07] the region trying to work together on a solution even if it's not that one which i don't think is realistic or even desirable for the u.s to get involved in um but hopefully they will come up with a solution that results in hamas being defeated yes i do want to say that it's important to distinguish between you know getting out of a war a never-ending war in ukraine that's over territorial battle with russia that's been on and off for decades and supporting our deep and close

[00:07:33] ally israel there's a lot of american interest in stability in the middle east and in that region particularly with as aggressive and hostile as iran has become syria we discussed in the last hour how unstable syria is in the region we do have some allies there by way of egypt jordan saudi arabia but we also need to protect israel at all costs and my first reaction when i heard president trump

[00:07:59] make that statement is gaza is not ours gaza is israel's um god you know god we know the the god of the bible has assigned that land completely and entirely to israel um but how we get there matters of course and i did want to just flag that these the arab leaders have agreed on a 53 million dollar reconstruction proposal for the gaza strip um but the u.s has rejected that because it doesn't

[00:08:25] include making it militarily safe um or as we've discussed the need to eradicate hamas from the region uh who you know i you you raise an important point liberty um that they've used their own palestinian civilians as human shields and and had a whole host of crimes more when we get back after

[00:08:43] this short break this is viewpoints with kirby anderson natasha crane warns christians in her new book when culture hates you persevering for the common good as christians in a hostile public square

[00:09:10] she begins by talking about the hostility christians often face when they articulate a biblical perspective on cultural issues now we shouldn't be surprised since jesus warned us that if the world hates you know that it has hated me before it hated you one of the most significant criticisms from non-christians and even from christians as well is that christians should not impose their views on others we also hear that christians should not

[00:09:35] seek power we're told that getting involved in politics harms our witness and can disrupt unity in the church and we're told that christians should not be partisans well to evaluate those objections she proposes slavery as a test case here are her five key statements using those objections number one christians shouldn't have worked to end slavery because we shouldn't have imposed our views

[00:10:00] on others number two christians shouldn't have worked to end slavery because that involves seeking power to do it number three christians shouldn't have worked to end slavery because getting involved with a political issue harmed our witness number four christians shouldn't have worked to end slavery because it disrupted unity in the church and number five christians shouldn't have worked to end slavery because christians shouldn't have been partisans now would we accept those objections

[00:10:30] We should reject such reasoning and can see how we shouldn't have applied such arguments two centuries ago. We were called to speak truth then, and we're called to speak truth today. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view. For a free copy of Kirby's booklet, A Biblical View on Socialism, go to viewpoints.info slash socialism. That's viewpoints.info slash socialism.

[00:10:58] You're listening to Point of View. Your listener-supported source for truth. Well, welcome back to the Millennial Roundtable, where I am joined by Liberty McCarter and Alyssa Sonnenberg. Today, we are turning our discussion to what has become, I think, the biggest First Amendment news of the new year, certainly the President Trump's new administration, and that is the arrest of Mahmoud Khalil.

[00:11:26] He is a Palestinian green card holder and was here in the United States on originally a student visa starting in 2012 to get his graduate degree at Columbia University. Ten years later, he married his American wife and received a green card. He has been detained by immigration officials. I want to say not arrested on federal charges or anything like that, but at an ICE detention center in Louisiana for being the orchestrator,

[00:11:55] essentially, of the pro-Palestinian protests at Columbia University. And he was also the chief negotiator between the students in Columbia University. And President Trump's press secretary yesterday said one of the reasons he's being detained and probably deported, it looks like at this juncture, is because he disseminated pro-Hamas materials in those protests. And so there's going to be a lot here. We're going to break it down today.

[00:12:24] There's a lot of layers here to uncover. I'm just starting with some of the high-level facts or facts that we've been told. We're not being verified yet. Of course, he has representation. And Mr. Khalil has filed a lawsuit to enjoin or stop his deportation and say, you know, he has a right to do process under the law before, even though he is a green card holder, before he is deported.

[00:12:48] And, of course, in that lawsuit, they raised, you know, First Amendment discrimination defenses against him. So we have a lot to talk about, Liberty. I would love for you just to break down for us your initial thoughts on this case that we're seeing unfold. I'll add just one note. As recently as in the last two hours, there were over 100 protesters arrested at Trump Tower in Manhattan, in New York,

[00:13:15] because this case is explosive, for lack of a better term. Not only are the pro-Palestinian or Hamas sympathizing, I don't even know what we can call them, protesters. You know, those have been thousands and thousands across the United States for over years now, a year, year and a half protesting. And so not only does it involve the hot topic issue of Palestine and Israel and Gaza,

[00:13:41] it also involves, in this case, them feeling that he's a political, essentially being arrested for political grounds against his First Amendment rights. Yeah. I think it's new ground for a lot of people, Chelsea, because at least I know I'm not, you know, an expert in how to apply the law to, you know, people who are here legally but who are not citizens. And so this is, you know, I was reading, doing research on the article,

[00:14:10] and I'm sure that you can take us through more of the case history and kind of the, you know, different Supreme Court precedents that there are. But it seems like it is complicated. And so we know that he is, you know, a green card holder, so he's a legal permanent resident. And so he's not a U.S. citizen. And we know that based on my understanding of case precedent in the past, green card residents

[00:14:34] and people who are here legally but not as citizens, they can be deported if they show support for terrorist organizations. And so I think the question kind of comes down to was he speaking in a way that is protected at all by the First Amendment or is this political retaliation? And so, I mean, with those, the protests that were happening at the time, you know, sparked at Columbia,

[00:15:01] but happened around the U.S. and around the world, we saw a lot of anti-Semitism. We saw violence against Jewish students. We did see outright support, not just for Palestinians, but for Hamas, the terrorist organization. And so I think what it really boils down to is where did he land on those things? Was he inciting violence or was he expressing a pro-Palestinian sentiment in protest, which I think, you know, people should be allowed to do.

[00:15:30] And so we do want to address anti-Semitism and, you know, take that very seriously. And so I'm glad that the Trump administration is doing that. But, again, we do want to make sure that we foster an environment of protected free speech for people. And so it's complicated. I don't really know exactly what to think about it, Chelsea, but I'm interested to learn more. Yes, we're going to break down the First Amendment implications because, you know,

[00:15:57] we discuss so much the importance of nuance on the show and that we don't want to have on blinders just because President Trump administration is acting doesn't mean that we are, you know, have been lobotomized from critical thinking. And we, you know, if you are a conservative, value the First Amendment, freedom of speech, freedom to assemble, religious liberty, right? You know, all those conscience protections are at the foundation and root of our Constitution and our very society. And so we're going to analyze that.

[00:16:26] Before we get there, I did want to see, Alyssa, your thoughts on this arrest or detainment, I'm going to say, because there's no criminal charges against him. It's immigration detainment. What were your initial thoughts when you heard about this situation? You know, I am personally pro his detainment. You know, people like to call on free speech a lot. However, I can't run into a theater and yell fire and not have any charges laid against me for that. Free speech has a limit.

[00:16:54] And to Liberty's point, a legal permanent resident or commonly known as a green card holder can face arrest and deportation if they promote or encourage any kind of terrorist organization. And Hamas has been labeled as a terrorist organization. And so the toxic empathy people would like to say, well, what about his wife? What about his baby? And my question to them is, I understand, you know, I'm due in June with me and my husband's first child.

[00:17:22] I can't imagine him, you know, being taken away from me. But my biggest question is, why would he put his family in that position? Like Liberty said, he is not a U.S. citizen. His legal status here is based on the premise that he is going to be a good possible citizen, that he's going to follow the rules. And one of those basic rules being that you cannot promote terrorist organizations. In addition to that, he was actually under investigation at Columbia University for harassment of Jews and mass discrimination.

[00:17:51] So it's not as if this guy was just trying to be a little bit pro-Palestinian or tried to promote the idea of Palestine having more land or more freedom. This guy was more radical than the left wants you to believe. You're raising really important points for all of this. Let's just let's break down, Alyssa, a little bit of the factors that you said. So we said he has not been charged with a crime, which would, by the way, also be grounds for deportation if he had been.

[00:18:21] And they have not alleged that he engaged in any legally prohibited activity against U.S. residents, which would have been another ground. There are two possible. There's one allegation listed and one that we heard yesterday that is a factor for these proceedings. One is he's being removed under the Immigration and Nationality Act for that permits deportation of lawful residents if their presence presents a risk of potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences.

[00:18:51] And so that's what was cited in the petition. And then the second is he can be removed if he's provided material support to a prescribed organization, which Hamas is. And so what we heard Press Secretary Caroline Levitt say yesterday in the White House is that he was promoting and giving out materials with Hamas logos on them and which would be Hamas propaganda. Hamas is a terrorist organization.

[00:19:16] So it's not, you know, the situation where Candace Owens is kind of there's there's a big divide among conservatives right now, which is why we're talking about this. Candace Owens is out there saying it was only a few months ago that pro-life religious people were considered domestic terrorists under the FBI and arrested by the dozens, by the way, under alleged face act violations.

[00:19:37] We know they have a lot of domestic terrorist profiles for parents who show up to the school board meetings, not wanting their kids to be transitioned at school, gender transitioned. So we are in this situation where we have seen the federal government do what they're calling lawfare against populations and ideas they disagree with. I'm going to say that this needs to be a separate category because we're talking about Hamas.

[00:20:02] We're talking about a bona fide, a bona fide terrorist organization that recently and is still actively committing humanitarian crimes in Israel. And there are and he is Palestinian. And so it's not too wild to surmise that there are populations and immigrants in our nation right now. You know, we've seen an uptick in warnings about terrorist cell cells that have popped up.

[00:20:29] We had a terrorist attack in New Orleans recently. We had one in Las Vegas recently. And so this is this is under the category in the First Amendment world of a security risk. And so you are allowed to limit speech. It's not just this giant right without any limitations. The government is allowed to limit someone's free speech if it incites violence, if it is dangerous, if it prevents a security risk.

[00:20:56] I have seen land zone laws where they won't allow churches to meet or park in a neighborhood because the parking presents a traffic hazard. And that that rises to the ability. There are standards here of what's necessity. It's an increased standard under the First Amendment, but it's not a wholesale right to do whatever you want in the United States of America. We're going to get more on this when we get back after this short break.

[00:21:31] It was not that long ago that censorship appeared to be almost inevitable. Free speech was being attacked and strangled in many places. And some of us wondered if this was the end. But now many feel a new sense of hope, a chance for a fresh dawn. Let me caution you. Now is not the time to relax.

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[00:22:48] Point of View will continue after this. You are listening to Point of View. The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now, here again, Chelsea Yeoman.

[00:23:14] Welcome back to the Millennial Roundtable, where we have discussed all sorts of world news today. Go to Point of View Radio on Facebook and like us or watch us on pointofview.net. You can also go ahead and leave comments there. And we are turning now our discussion. We're talking about Mahmoud Khalil, who is the Columbia University student who is potentially getting deported, that ICE has detained.

[00:23:41] And, of course, I have Alyssa and Liberty on the show to break it down. We left the last segment talking about really the first, a little bit of first-time analysis. And so I'll summarize it here, and I'd love to get both of your viewpoints on this. But, of course, you have a First Amendment right to believe. It starts in your conscience, your religious views, whatever you want, and then to speak those rights or the right to speak about your beliefs and viewpoints. Your First Amendment right to free speech.

[00:24:10] You have the right to assemble with others who are like-minded, like you could maybe perhaps in this protest that we're talking about that happened in Colombia, although it wasn't a typical protest. It really was a huge encampment and disruptive, and there were lots of anti-Semitic things that were done, crimes that were committed, people who were arrested. So this wasn't your mainstream protest, we've said.

[00:24:31] But you have a right to protest, and you also have a right to be in our country and not deported without going through the process. It's called due process of law. But there are parameters and limitations on those First Amendment rights. They're not unlimited.

[00:24:49] And so it's elevated protection, which means you have strict scrutiny in a court of law which says the government can only limit those rights or constitutional rights if it's necessary to do so for compelling government interest. If there's a compelling interest, compelling interests are things like safety. Compelling interests are national security. Compelling interests can be, even in some of the cases I worked on, things like traffic flow.

[00:25:16] If it creates a hazard in the traffic, for instance, a Jewish synagogue I represented wasn't able to meet in the home because of a traffic problem that it created. And so when you think of your First Amendment rights, they are not completely uninhibitable. They just have to, it has to arise for a compelling government interest, which I would argue in this current situation, there could be because the White House mentioned that Khalil, Mr. Khalil,

[00:25:44] was distributing Hamas materials at these protests, which would be terrorist materials and terrorist propaganda. So go ahead and take it from here, Alyssa. I really want to get your breakdown. Yeah, I completely agree with you and your legal analysis. Obviously, you are much more adept in that area than I am.

[00:26:05] But again, it's not as if this individual was simply peacefully protesting a Palestinian view on land in Israel or the war, because that is certainly covered under First Amendment rights. But you really cross the line of legal boundary when you start promoting or at least indirectly maybe promoting terrorist organizations, as this individual was doing with passing out Hamas materials.

[00:26:32] And let's not forget that Hamas and Palestinians are not buddies, so to speak. If we remember back to the horrible attack on October 7 that Hamas unleashed on Israel, Israel gave the Gaza Strip due warning that they were going to counterstrike. And they told the Palestinians in that region that it's time for them as civilians to leave, to get out because they were going to conduct a national strike on them.

[00:27:00] However, Hamas did not allow those Palestinians to leave. And, of course, this painted Israel as this evil genocidal monster in the news. How dare they attack innocent civilians? And so we really need to keep our facts straight. We need to separate Palestine from Hamas. And promoting materials, passing out materials that promote Hamas really is not only damaging to your own side, but it's damaging to the safety of everyone involved.

[00:27:30] Well, well said. Again, you know, I did caveat this by saying we've lived under a Biden administration for four years, where they called it lawfare, but it's really just arresting political enemies and using all the systems possible to attack your political opponents. And we want to distinguish. I think it's important to distinguish that because a lot of commentators and conservatives

[00:27:56] are breaking with President Trump and his administration on this decision, like Candace Owens-Liberty, who is out here saying, we just saw the other side do this, and we don't want to continue that type of effort. You know, I will also add that Candace Owens has become pretty anti-Israel. I've got to be careful how I say this, but she is definitely no sympathizer to Israel at this juncture, and is sympathetic to Gaza.

[00:28:25] And it's good to ask questions. We talked about this earlier, knowing the facts, education, what is going on in the Gaza Strip? Are there humanitarian crimes being committed? Or is it Hamas, which we've heard the reports from local Palestinians, Alyssa, what you're alluding to, that say it's Hamas that's blocking the aid, stealing the food, stealing from the Palestinian people, any type of humanitarian aid that's been able to get in. And so I know I'm throwing a lot at you, Liberty, but I would like to hear your thoughts on this dichotomy.

[00:28:54] You know, all of a sudden the liberals are remembering that they love First Amendment constitutional freedoms. But we don't want to be, you know, you don't want to be hypocritical. We want to be objective in analyzing this. And I'd love to get your thoughts on that. Is there a hypocrisy here? Is it, can we distinguish between promoting a terrorist or, you know, what could be, could have been promoting a terrorist Hamas materials is what the White House said yesterday.

[00:29:20] And I do appreciate your analysis and Alyssa's comments as well, because, you know, again, this is something that I think for a lot of people, it's like, what do I think about this? And with regard to the comments from Candace Owens that you made, you know, I will say if we were seeing the Trump administration or if we eventually see the Trump administration start targeting American citizens and saying, you know, you're a terrorist organization

[00:29:50] because you have different political beliefs than me, that would be a big problem. But I don't think there is any equating between what was happening with the Biden administration and, you know, calling pro-lifers or concerned school parents terrorists and then an actual terrorist organization like Hamas, which everybody, you know, reasonable, recognizes as a terrorist organization. So this is where it's really important just to,

[00:30:19] like we were talking about earlier, think through it. It's okay to not know for sure, but then say, okay, I'm going to dig into the facts. And what I think we have to be really careful, too, is the whataboutism. Like, well, what about when they did this? And that can either be used to justify, well, now, so we're going to do this because they did it. Or it can be justified to say, well, I don't think we should do this because it looks like when they did this. And sometimes it's not comparing apples to apples, like in this situation.

[00:30:46] Again, if Khalil was a citizen, then it would be, I think, a lot different. But since he is technically an alien, and if it's true that he was passing out, you know, pro-Hamas materials, then that means that he's violating the rules, you know, as I understand them and as you've explained, of being in the U.S. legally, which is to not promote a terrorist organization. And so, you know, if those are the facts, then it's more understandable

[00:31:14] because we're living in a time where we can't mess around with terrorists. And we are seeing so many terrorist attacks around the world and even in the United States. And so, you know, again, and Alyssa was right, to delineate between Palestinians and Hamas, which I think the media has not always helped with that. And that's what I think a lot of young people have kind of gotten caught up in without really understanding the distinction there. That's a really good point.

[00:31:43] But I'm going to hone in on Keyword you said. You repeat this a few times already. You said if those are the facts. So I'm going to push here a little bit on President Trump's administration from a PR perspective, not a political commentary here. But this is the second time in, I'm going to say, three weeks that I have seen the Trump administration, I would say, misstep on the PR side of things.

[00:32:06] Like, if the facts are true that he was submitting Hamas materials to people at these protests, which would be providing material support to a terrorist organization, definitive grounds for deportation under the law, they should have provided those receipts and been very clear about that and said these are the types of materials or given details to the American people

[00:32:30] so that we can squash the question in anybody's minds about whether he can be lawfully deported. You lead with that from a PR perspective. The second time, the first time they did this was with, and this might not have been their fault, but with Pam Bondi at the DOJ. She's the new attorney general. When she said, I'm going to release all the Epstein documents. We're going to just release it all. Transparency, transparency for weeks.

[00:32:56] I think they gave too much of a timeline on that because it gave the public grounds to say, well, where are these documents? And then when they couldn't get all the documents from the FBI because the FBI was burning the documents in New York City and there was a disconnect there, then they only released what was already been given to the public and there was so much redaction. There was no new information. I think that was a PR nightmare because what it's led to is this, it's led us to question the administration on how serious they are about transparency.

[00:33:26] And they should have been, I think, if you're going to release documents, say it in real time. Give the receipt so the public can know exactly what's going on. That's my two cents more when we get back after this short break.

[00:33:55] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Welcome back. Alyssa Liberty and I are rounding out our discussion on Mr. Khalil, the Palestinian or potentially pro-Hamas. We haven't seen the proof yet. Protester from Columbia University, one of the leaders of that protest where he is arrested and potentially going to be deported. So I just wanted to round out our commentary.

[00:34:23] Alyssa, your thoughts on what I said about President Trump's administration maybe doing a cleaner job on the transparency side of things as they're moving very quickly. And it's a lot for the American public to digest just how much they're doing all day, every day. The media certainly can't and is not covering it all. And that's not to say that the media is going to do a fair job by President Trump. But I think there have been a couple moments in the last few weeks where we as the American public were told one thing and expected one thing.

[00:34:52] The release of the Epstein documents is a great example. Or yesterday that Mr. Khalil was distributing pro-Hamas materials, but without really the follow-through. And it doesn't lend, in my personal opinion, towards confidence. It raises an eyebrow is what I'll say. So Alyssa, I'd love to get your thoughts on that. And feel free to push back if you think I'm wrong. No, I completely agree with you. You hit the nail on the head.

[00:35:21] But I think the reason why we're seeing so much division in even conservative circles, like you mentioned Candace Owens and other sides saying different things, is because there's a lack of clarity. You know, even when I was researching this individual, it was hard to find hard facts, hard evidence. What was he actually doing? Was he a good student at Columbia University? All of these things. It was very hard to find any good, hard evidence. So, of course, when you have a lack of clarity,

[00:35:50] a lack of transparency very quickly when it comes in the public eye, you, of course, are going to garner a lot of confusion, a lot of division. I completely agree with you. Yes. And there were other protesters who were arrested and had committed crimes that were not U.S. citizens. And so, you know, that perhaps, I think there have been, it has been said by President Trump's administration, there will be more arrests. Liberty, any thoughts on the PR side of this? Yeah.

[00:36:17] I mean, you always want to lead with the evidence that you have. And you know that especially your political opponents are going to come after you and push back. And when even your political allies are pushing back, you know, I think you're totally right. You've got to lead with your strongest evidence and your strongest arguments. And if you're going to come out with a bold claim or action, you know, don't leave any ambiguity as to why you're doing so. Yeah, I think you're right.

[00:36:45] I would still like to see those Epstein documents. I know that there's difficulty between Pam Bondi over the DOJ and the FBI getting a hold of those documents. But it just, like I said, it just doesn't lend towards confidence now on like what is in those documents. And it leads to too many questions. And so maybe they could make the announcement closer in real time. They also gave those documents to a lot of influencers or who call themselves independent journalists.

[00:37:11] I understand wanting to broaden the tent, so to speak, on the media and who's in the room. But that also ended up being kind of a debacle. And so just interesting thoughts from, you know, how things are being handled. But certainly, as I mentioned, there's so much to discuss and unpacked almost daily now. We're going to touch in our last few minutes on, we're not going to impact the entire Russia-Ukraine war

[00:37:37] in 10 minutes, but there are historic peace negotiations underway literally right now as we speak. So we're going to discuss the fact that we all saw what happened with Vice President Vance and President Trump and the Ukrainian president who was kicked out, Zelensky was kicked out of the White House, then came back to the table after his, you know, very public spanking and, you know, has done everything that we originally had set forth as America that we wanted him to do diplomatically.

[00:38:07] So the peace talks are underway. President Zelensky has agreed to the peace discussions. Included in those is the inclusion that the U.S. will continue to provide forces and military support to the region, which I had a question about that, ladies. I thought that looked a little bit, you know, we're pushing for peace talks and President Putin has been very clear he wants longstanding peace in the region and he probably wants that territory,

[00:38:35] the four territories he's occupied or is trying to occupy. But I think it almost cuts against the peace deal if it looks like we're continuing to send military over that president. You know, do we think President Putin's likely to sign it? Do we think he's trustworthy? Liberty, I'll start with you. Well, I think we're talking about the same peace deal, but I saw a headline just a few minutes ago that he's already rejected it. So I would say no.

[00:39:03] But, yeah, you know, the whole thing is a little bit, you know, it's hard because you're not going to find a deal, I don't think, where we can fully trust President Putin, understandably. You know, he's a dictator. But how can we placate him enough to where Ukraine gets enough of what it wants and the U.S. gets what we want and still keep our national security interest at the forefront? So, you know, that's what they're trying to negotiate right now.

[00:39:32] But more U.S. troops in Ukraine, I don't think that's going to be very popular. Yeah, as you mentioned, it's such a complex geopolitical war. You know, a little bit of background, Alyssa, that you recall is that part of what President Putin says was the beginning of his invasion of Ukraine was Ukraine's efforts. It's that western border of Russia to Europe. It's a really important border. It's why Germany and Poland and everybody's highly concerned about the territorial grab on behalf of Russia

[00:40:03] is that Ukraine was wanting to join NATO and that that was viewed as a security threat. And so I think Putin has been very clear about his interests, Alyssa. He wants the territory. He wants Ukraine not to be a part of NATO, which they're determined to do. NATO is determined to continue increasing military spend, which is good to increase their defenses. And Russia, by the way, I read in one quarter, in a three-month period, is able to produce more military

[00:40:31] than the EU in a year combined does because they've spent so much on it. It's why they can have military bases in Syria. Don't forget that they're backing the proxy wars. Russia is backing the proxy wars in the Middle East. That appears they don't have economic power or even population power, but they have expended a lot on their military capabilities. Thoughts, Alyssa? Yeah, absolutely.

[00:40:58] You know, this big question of can Putin be trusted, you hit the nail on the head that, you know, Putin has been, for all his faults, he is an evil dictator, but for all his faults, he has been very honest about what his interests are with Russia, what he would like to see on the table. And so, again, this big question, can he be trusted? Ultimately, leaders like Putin can never be trusted, ultimately, to keep their word. They're not, they don't have that kind of reputation. They wouldn't be where they are today if they had that kind of reputation.

[00:41:28] But this is why a Trump administration is so timely and so necessary, because if we think back to Trump's first administration in 2016, we saw that Russia really stayed in line. And that's not because Putin is such a great guy or he kept his word, et cetera, et cetera. It's because Trump has made America's position very clear that he is not to be messed with and that there will be repercussions when lines are drawn and lines are crossed.

[00:41:57] You know, I think of Teddy Roosevelt's famous phrase, speak softly and carry a big stick. And that is exactly what the Trump administration is embodying. And Trump makes that very clear when it comes to global economics, when it comes to global affairs, when it comes to these wars, that he intends to make sure that America's word means something. So whatever peace deal is struck, whether one happens in the future or not, it will be based on the fact that America means what it says.

[00:42:25] Yes, I like what you're alluding to. And if you remember the Tucker Carlson interview, which I watched with with President Putin over in Russia, I mean, it was the most insight we've ever had into who who this person is. And if you recall, in the U.S. and Russia weren't always I mean, they have always been on bad terms. But he used to come down to Crawford Ranch with President Bush. They were very close.

[00:42:50] He would go to Camp David and that there was at least a connection there that maybe President Trump can bring about again. Alyssa, thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you, Liberty, for joining us. As always, don't forget to go to pointofview.net, read our articles today. I'm Chelsea Yeoman, and it's been a pleasure to be with you. Have a great afternoon. If you appreciate the trustworthy news and biblical worldview that you hear on Point of View,

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