Point of View June 7, 2024 – Hour 2 : Weekend Edition

[00:00:00] Weekend Edition Show here on Point of View where we cover topics during the week.

[00:00:27] Joining me in studio, Holly Randall and Jeff Mateer, both of First Liberty Institute.

[00:00:32] And we've been talking about a number of military things, this being the day after D-Day.

[00:00:38] And I'm going to read you the beginning of an NBC News story.

[00:00:42] It says, National and State Republican Party officials are slowly revving up recruitment

[00:00:47] and plans for what they say will be an unprecedented Election Day Army.

[00:00:52] There's our segue. Election Day Army of 100,000 poll workers, monitors and lawyers.

[00:00:58] And they say, talking about an RNC official, says that they have already recruited tens of thousands of volunteers

[00:01:06] and have 13 Election Day integrity workers, directors in 13 states to be monitoring

[00:01:16] and looking at the polls when Election Day comes in November 5.

[00:01:20] I am not a person who believed the election was stolen. I've never believed that the election was stolen.

[00:01:25] Having said that, the notion that you want to be careful out there, ensure that the election is safe and secure

[00:01:34] is still a viable concern that we ought to have.

[00:01:37] And so, but it's interesting, their goal is 100,000 poll workers watching at various polls.

[00:01:44] The article seems to think that's probably going to be optimistic, that's ambitious.

[00:01:48] They probably won't get that many people.

[00:01:50] They're stressing that they're working at the, in the swing states where you would want to have the most focus.

[00:01:57] I mean, you can have all the poll workers you want in California.

[00:02:01] It's going to vote for Biden, I suspect.

[00:02:03] So, but what do you think about this, Jeff?

[00:02:06] Yeah, I, well, first off, I would say this.

[00:02:10] I think eyes and ears are good.

[00:02:12] To have eyes and ears on the ground are good, and I think that helps.

[00:02:16] I just don't think this is where election fraud occurs.

[00:02:19] I mean, I don't think that in-person voting largely is the source of election fraud.

[00:02:28] I think that the biggest, especially the states that have voter ID, I mean,

[00:02:33] it would be good to have people there making sure poll workers are actually,

[00:02:37] people have their voter ID and that people who are actually registered in the particular precinct actually vote,

[00:02:46] and you don't have unregistered people.

[00:02:48] I mean, that's all good, and it's good to have trained workers and eyes and ears spotting that,

[00:02:53] but, and that, you know, that you have a driver's license for those states who require that,

[00:02:59] and people actually do that, people actually residing in the district, and that's all well.

[00:03:04] But I think, I mean, the bigger, at least my experience has always been it is the, it's absentee ballots.

[00:03:11] It's sort of the efforts to get people to the poll, the vote harvesting efforts.

[00:03:18] Those are the situations where you have people where you can have voter fraud.

[00:03:24] I mean, I get that the Republicans want to make this an issue.

[00:03:29] It's a good talking point, and it's certainly true that we want to make it hard to cheat, you know, easy to vote, hard to cheat.

[00:03:39] That's the line that I've always said, that others have said.

[00:03:42] I mean, I think that is the key.

[00:03:44] If that helps this, then yes.

[00:03:48] I, you know, I just don't know.

[00:03:52] You know, it might be better having these resources to get people out to vote than to have people sitting at the elections,

[00:03:59] because I think we all know, and I think we've talked about this, I think with you, Buddy.

[00:04:03] I mean, most experts are saying this race is going to come down to probably 18 counties in, I think, six states.

[00:04:11] Six or seven states, depending upon whether or not you include North Carolina in there.

[00:04:15] Yeah, and so we kind of know where this election is going to be.

[00:04:19] Now, I guess these people are going to be in those counties, because to your point, Donald Trump's not winning California.

[00:04:26] And Joe Biden's not going to win Texas.

[00:04:30] And not going to win Texas or Alabama or Mississippi.

[00:04:32] I mean, and again, we can identify, and we can identify, again, the counties.

[00:04:39] I mean, the analytics are so good that we know that there's a county in Wisconsin that, actually,

[00:04:46] I think there are two counties in Wisconsin that are the key to Wisconsin.

[00:04:50] There's two or three counties in Michigan.

[00:04:52] There's a couple of counties in Pennsylvania.

[00:04:54] I mean, that's where this election comes down to.

[00:04:58] And I think in those counties, it's getting your people out to vote and identifying who to vote, making sure that they vote.

[00:05:06] I don't know if it's, you know, are the Democrats going to register a bunch of people who shouldn't be registered?

[00:05:14] Or dead people are going to vote in those counties, you know, because I don't think.

[00:05:18] Oh, gosh, it slipped my mind.

[00:05:20] Chicago. What's the county?

[00:05:21] Cook County.

[00:05:22] I don't think Cook County is going to determine this election.

[00:05:24] And they can have as many dead people as they want to vote.

[00:05:27] But Illinois is probably going to go for Joe Biden.

[00:05:29] Yes.

[00:05:30] And so it doesn't matter how many dead people in Cook County vote this time.

[00:05:35] And there's the quote of the day.

[00:05:37] Yeah, well, and of course, you know, but he's a good student of history.

[00:05:41] I mean, you know, Texas has got some.

[00:05:43] We've got LBJ.

[00:05:45] That's where we got LBJ.

[00:05:46] How many votes do we need?

[00:05:48] Let's go find them.

[00:05:51] So anyway, it's interesting because voter fraud does occur.

[00:05:55] Absolutely.

[00:05:56] In small numbers.

[00:05:58] In Texas here, you can go to Ken Paxson, the attorney general's website,

[00:06:02] and he has a list of the various cases that they've done.

[00:06:05] If you look at it, it's usually one, two, three people.

[00:06:07] It's very small numbers.

[00:06:09] And as you point out, if you're doing absentee voting and some of those things,

[00:06:12] that can be a problem because once you send that ballot out,

[00:06:16] there's no chain of custody until it comes back in.

[00:06:21] And so you don't really know what happened with that.

[00:06:24] And I think it's important that, look,

[00:06:26] Republicans and Democrats are in the room that nothing, nothing, you know,

[00:06:29] there should be nothing in secret done by that.

[00:06:32] And so I think that is all positive.

[00:06:35] But what I don't think it does, a lot of the things, I mean,

[00:06:40] talk about 2020, I mean,

[00:06:43] a lot of the things that happened where you extended the opportunity to vote

[00:06:47] because of COVID and you gave more opportunities to not have in-person voting.

[00:06:53] And to me, that is where the fraud,

[00:06:55] it's where ballots and you don't know who's signing a ballot.

[00:06:59] And then the ballot comes in.

[00:07:01] That makes me very, very nervous.

[00:07:03] Yeah.

[00:07:04] Former Attorney General Bill Barr told Trump during the summer before the election,

[00:07:09] he said, you need to look at this because this is going to,

[00:07:12] this could end up being a problem.

[00:07:13] He said he was largely dismissed.

[00:07:15] The White House didn't think it was going to be a problem.

[00:07:17] And it ended up being a problem.

[00:07:19] And we just don't know on that how much that would have affected.

[00:07:23] Most of the people look at do not think it affected the outcome of the election.

[00:07:27] But as you point out, you have a number of states,

[00:07:30] mostly blue states expanding ways to vote in ways that they haven't before.

[00:07:35] And you really opened up the possibility for fraud in that case.

[00:07:38] Yeah, I think that's, I think you guys are exactly right.

[00:07:41] The fraud really occurs in situations where you're getting mail-in votes.

[00:07:45] And, you know, I love in Texas, we have a great expanded early voting.

[00:07:49] I think that's a good solution to something like having really broad strokes alternatives,

[00:07:54] like absentee ballots.

[00:07:55] And so we have to be creative and think of things like that.

[00:07:58] I'll play devil's advocate to Jeff for a second.

[00:08:00] No, I disagree with that, by the way.

[00:08:01] Oh, interesting.

[00:08:02] OK.

[00:08:03] I think we should have one election day.

[00:08:04] One day.

[00:08:05] Everyone should vote on election day.

[00:08:06] Will you give me election day?

[00:08:07] I'll have to vote.

[00:08:08] Can I have that day?

[00:08:09] Well, maybe if that's the trade, I would make that trade.

[00:08:12] I would do something for the elderly and for military.

[00:08:16] But other than that, everyone votes one day because I do think these extended.

[00:08:20] Paul, I mean, I don't think I want one day.

[00:08:23] I'm going to be with Holly on this.

[00:08:25] Yeah, I think even having those eyes and ears, I know you think, you know, the people in

[00:08:29] the room maybe aren't going to be the most effective and we need to be focusing on getting

[00:08:32] out the vote.

[00:08:33] But maybe that gives people confidence to go vote that wouldn't anyway.

[00:08:37] If someone's watching.

[00:08:38] We'll be back in just a minute.

[00:08:40] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:02] Although Pavi Rassanen is a person on trial, realistically, it is the Bible that's on trial.

[00:09:07] She is a long-serving member of the Finnish parliament, a medical doctor, a pastor's wife

[00:09:13] and a grandmother.

[00:09:14] She continues to face persecution for her religious beliefs.

[00:09:17] Now, five years ago, her church decided to sponsor a pride parade.

[00:09:21] She responded by posting some Bible verses and asked how that decision aligned with Scripture.

[00:09:27] Instead of a civil debate and a reasonable response, she was slapped with criminal prosecution.

[00:09:32] In the process of discovery, the government officials found a church pamphlet she wrote

[00:09:36] on marriage and sexuality.

[00:09:38] The government charged her and the other author of the pamphlet, who was a Lutheran bishop

[00:09:43] with agitation against a minority group based upon war crime statutes in Finnish law.

[00:09:48] The two were put on trial two years ago with most of the focus on biblical passages and

[00:09:54] the way in which the defendants interpreted them.

[00:09:56] The good news is they were eventually acquitted of all counts.

[00:09:59] The bad news is the government filed an appeal to Finland's Supreme Court.

[00:10:03] Her case reminded me of the Swedish pastor Aki Green, who preached a sermon based on Romans 1

[00:10:09] and argued that sexual perversions are harmful to society.

[00:10:13] His case was prosecuted and convicted in the lower courts.

[00:10:17] But eventually his case went all the way to the Swedish Supreme Court

[00:10:21] and the justices ruled that though he violated Swedish law,

[00:10:24] that his freedom of religion was protected by the European Convention on Human Rights.

[00:10:30] I believe this Bible trial in Finland will determine whether free speech

[00:10:34] and religious liberty will be allowed in this country and in other European countries.

[00:10:39] I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:43] For a free copy of Kirby's booklet, A Biblical View on Racism,

[00:10:50] go to viewpoints.info.com.

[00:10:53] That's viewpoints.info.com.

[00:10:57] You're listening to Point of View, your listener supported source for truth.

[00:11:04] And welcome back to Point of View.

[00:11:06] And while we've been talking a little bit about the election,

[00:11:09] I will point out that the New York Times has a piece.

[00:11:12] We have a link to that on our website at pointofview.net.

[00:11:15] The title is the GOP push for post verdict payback.

[00:11:20] Fight fire with fire.

[00:11:22] And the idea here is that Trump was, and I think it's generally agreed,

[00:11:30] that a number of things, the district attorney in New York had to do a stretch

[00:11:36] to get to a felony charge against Donald Trump.

[00:11:40] I think Donald Trump was probably guilty of some of the things that were going on here,

[00:11:43] but at any rate, they had to go through some machinations to get a felony charge against him.

[00:11:49] And he's got a guilty verdict now.

[00:11:52] And people are saying, okay, you went this far.

[00:11:56] We're going to turn around and have some election payback.

[00:12:01] If Republicans win the White House, if they have control,

[00:12:05] they're going to start prosecuting various types of Democrats for things that may

[00:12:10] or may not be valid.

[00:12:12] And I'm not a fan of that, but I fully recognize it.

[00:12:17] It's liable to happen.

[00:12:18] When Democrats go one step, as when they, the Supreme Court,

[00:12:23] Democrats did not want to change the Supreme Court when they were in charge.

[00:12:28] Once they got in the minority, they said we need to reform the Supreme Court

[00:12:32] and sent out letters to do that.

[00:12:35] And if you do that, you sort of open the door for somebody else to promote to do that,

[00:12:41] changing the vote for the Supreme Court justices and other things.

[00:12:45] Democrats led that rule.

[00:12:47] Mitch McConnell came up and said, okay, you did that for the Supreme Court.

[00:12:51] We're going to do it for other federal judges.

[00:12:53] So you get this kind of tit-for-tat that goes on in Washington when somebody sort of

[00:12:58] goes out and changes things.

[00:13:00] And so now Republicans are talking about getting a little legal payback if they get control.

[00:13:06] Yeah, I mean, so the article says fight fire with fire.

[00:13:10] I would say two wrongs don't make a right.

[00:13:13] I mean, I just believe in the rule of law.

[00:13:15] And I think it's different.

[00:13:17] I do think a difference with what McConnell did in the Senate and because those were Senate rules.

[00:13:24] And Senate rules can be changed.

[00:13:26] That's politics.

[00:13:27] Yeah, and this is prosecutions.

[00:13:29] And I probably disagree with a little bit on Buddy.

[00:13:34] I do think that the Alvin Bragg prosecution of Donald Trump was completely improper.

[00:13:41] I think that to say it, use the word stretch.

[00:13:46] I mean, that you're being kind to Alvin Bragg.

[00:13:49] And I'm sure last week Kelly probably went in detail about it.

[00:13:55] And I know we've got – he recorded it because we're getting this question.

[00:13:59] What do you think about it?

[00:14:00] I think that Kelly went in and Kelly recorded a piece.

[00:14:02] That's at FirstLiberty.org and in Insider this week.

[00:14:07] It's the lead article where Kelly talks about that prosecution and why it was so wrong.

[00:14:12] And I take it the response is, well, we should do the same thing.

[00:14:19] Well, I mean, actually – I mean, again, like I believe in this stuff.

[00:14:23] I believe in the rule of law.

[00:14:25] And I don't think two wrongs make a right.

[00:14:29] And that if Republicans start to – as suggested in this article by Stephen Miller and Mr. Bannon,

[00:14:39] although it sounds like in a couple of weeks he may have a different –

[00:14:41] He's going to jail.

[00:14:43] It's a different – and again, I don't know his prosecution as well, but I did follow the one of President Trump.

[00:14:53] And, I mean, it just – it was not for a state DA.

[00:14:58] This was a case for the U.S. attorney, and the U.S. attorney passed on it.

[00:15:02] And if there were federal violations, then those should have been handled by the feds and how they –

[00:15:09] I mean, it's very creative and problems with the jury's issues.

[00:15:13] I just don't want – I don't want Republicans doing that.

[00:15:16] And I've seen all the – there's this law.

[00:15:19] You can get this person under this.

[00:15:21] I mean that's not America.

[00:15:23] I mean – and what that is, that's Venezuela.

[00:15:26] I mean that's when in Argentina is when you win, and then you prosecute the person who ran against you.

[00:15:35] You took their place.

[00:15:36] Yeah, I mean that's not America.

[00:15:39] And I'm sure at times John Adams – well, not John Adams.

[00:15:44] Thomas Jefferson probably wanted to put Alexander Hamilton in jail at certain times.

[00:15:48] But that's not – and they may have wanted to.

[00:15:51] We did have opponents shooting each other.

[00:15:53] Yeah, well, we did have goals.

[00:15:54] We did.

[00:15:55] We did have goals.

[00:15:56] Aaron Burr.

[00:15:57] Yeah, as we all know from the Hamilton play.

[00:15:59] But I just – yeah, this troubles me.

[00:16:04] Holly, what do you think?

[00:16:05] I think it frustrates me as – and maybe I'm going to talk too much about being a lawyer,

[00:16:09] but it frustrates me just for the profession of people that go into law to do justice,

[00:16:13] and especially people that are prosecutors.

[00:16:15] I don't like seeing them suddenly become these sort of partisan politics.

[00:16:19] Prosecutors go into that because they're supposed to be advocating for justice

[00:16:25] and making victims of crimes feel like their case is being brought before a court.

[00:16:31] And I just don't like seeing them become sort of a bargaining chip that partisan political pundits can use.

[00:16:37] It's like, well, they prosecuted Donald Trump, so we need to prosecute so-and-so.

[00:16:42] I think the legal profession really has to stand up to this and say,

[00:16:44] no, I'm not going to become your little poker chip that you can play in certain times.

[00:16:49] You know, we see this – I mean, I've said on repeatedly just because some –

[00:16:53] these are political charges and efforts, but that doesn't necessarily mean the person's innocent on some things.

[00:16:59] I mean – and this is – so it was a political effort against Donald Trump,

[00:17:05] but I would argue that with Hunter Biden who is in court right now, it's political also.

[00:17:10] If he – Hunter Biden, I think, made the case that if his name wasn't Biden, people wouldn't really care about the case.

[00:17:16] And I think that's probably right because the effort is political to try to tie him into the present

[00:17:21] and then have something against the president.

[00:17:23] So we're already – but on the other hand, Hunter Biden committed crimes.

[00:17:28] So –

[00:17:29] It's a little more clear-cut than what they put Donald Trump through.

[00:17:31] It's a little more clear-cut.

[00:17:32] And from my standpoint, the basic aspect of Donald Trump, did he have an affair?

[00:17:38] Did he pay money and did he falsify some business records?

[00:17:43] Those seem to be probably pretty – I mean I suspect that all happened.

[00:17:47] But those were misdemeanors.

[00:17:48] Right, they're misdemeanors.

[00:17:50] Or not against the law.

[00:17:51] Right, and look, as a believer, I'm very uncomfortable with anybody paying hush money to a former porn star.

[00:18:00] I mean that doesn't seem like a real good thing or character, but it may not be illegal to pay hush money to your porn star girlfriend.

[00:18:10] And it's probably more common in politics than you think.

[00:18:14] Yeah, unfortunately.

[00:18:19] And I think we queue up Bill Clinton and what was – Colors?

[00:18:24] What was the book, the novel about – that supposedly was –

[00:18:29] Anonymous?

[00:18:30] Yeah, Primary Colors.

[00:18:31] Primary Colors, right.

[00:18:32] Yeah, by Anonymous, which was about Bill Clinton and some of his activities.

[00:18:39] And then not that long ago you had a Democratic congressman, Walwell I think it was, who was actually going to be a Democratic candidate for president, who had a Chinese spy as a girlfriend even though he's married.

[00:18:51] Yeah, so again, I mean – and back to the point.

[00:18:56] Although I will tell you, I was shocked because I had not seen this.

[00:19:00] I don't read the New York Times every day.

[00:19:03] But I was shocked to see that someone that I actually think really highly of is John Yoo.

[00:19:08] And John Yoo who worked during the Bush presidency, well-respected – I believe he's at Stanford or Cal Berkeley?

[00:19:18] Berkeley.

[00:19:19] Berkeley.

[00:19:20] He's a well-respected national defense expert.

[00:19:23] And I thought for sure he would say, but he's saying no.

[00:19:26] I think they need to do it because – and his theory, and I think it's worth considering is the Republicans need to do at least once so that everybody realizes this is really, really stupid, and we will destroy our country if we do this.

[00:19:39] I don't know.

[00:19:41] I'd like to talk to John about that.

[00:19:43] I think some people realize that already from the Trump prosecution.

[00:19:46] I think you had a couple Democrats that were in, people speaking out saying this is not right.

[00:19:51] Well, what needs to happen is the – it's not the New York Supreme – New York has it weird because the New York Supreme Court is actually the trial court, and it's the New York whatever court is their highest court.

[00:20:02] The New York – the highest court in New York needs to reverse this, and if they won't do it, the US Supreme Court needs to reverse it and send the message.

[00:20:10] This is just – I mean we're not going to do this.

[00:20:13] But you know, you sort of get this thing when the Democrats did the two Trump impeachments and you sort of define down the guilt for being impeached as president.

[00:20:22] You knew that the Republicans were going to turn around then and probably try to implement something like that as well, and if they could get a little bit more support, they might well do it, but they haven't done it so far.

[00:20:33] So anyway, yes, it's a tough situation, but I would expect if – once one side does it, it doesn't surprise me when the other side decides to pick up the ball and run with it as well.

[00:20:43] I mean my only hope is Trump did not prosecute Hillary Clinton despite the calls for locking her up.

[00:20:50] I think he – somebody in that administration and hopefully ultimately the president made a decision not to go after his former opponent.

[00:20:59] I would hope that we just – again, for respecting the rule of law that we don't have each side every four years to then get prosecuted.

[00:21:08] Who would go into politics then?

[00:21:11] Really bad people.

[00:21:13] Right.

[00:21:14] Speaking of the rule of law, the state of Louisiana is going to let the Ten Commandments be posted in the school.

[00:21:20] We've got law in the schools.

[00:21:22] We'll be back in just a minute.

[00:21:31] It almost seems like we live in a different world from many people in positions of authority.

[00:21:36] They say men can be women and women men.

[00:21:40] People are prosecuted differently or not at all depending on their politics.

[00:21:45] Criminals are more valued and rewarded than law-abiding citizens.

[00:21:50] It's so overwhelming, so demoralizing.

[00:21:53] You feel like giving up, but we can't.

[00:21:56] We shouldn't.

[00:21:57] We must not.

[00:21:58] As Winston Churchill said to Britain in the darkest days of World War II, never give in.

[00:22:04] Never give in.

[00:22:05] Never, never, never.

[00:22:07] Never yield to force.

[00:22:08] Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.

[00:22:12] And that's what we say to you today.

[00:22:15] This is not a time to give in, but to step up and join Point of View in providing clarity in the chaos.

[00:22:23] We can't do it alone.

[00:22:25] But together, with God's help, we will overcome the darkness.

[00:22:30] Invest in Biblical clarity today at PointofView.net or call 1-800-347-5151.

[00:22:39] PointofView.net and 800-347-5151.

[00:22:48] Point of View will continue after this.

[00:22:52] You are listening to Point of View.

[00:23:02] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station.

[00:23:09] And now, here again, Dr. Merrill Matthews.

[00:23:13] And we're back on Point of View, and I have in studio Holly Randall and Jeff Mateer.

[00:23:18] And we've been talking about the efforts of the military to excise religion from the military.

[00:23:26] The public schools have been working on that same process for a number of years.

[00:23:31] But it seems like Louisiana may have just taken a turn, Holly.

[00:23:34] Yeah, super exciting.

[00:23:35] Louisiana signed a bill recently to allow for and even mandate if donated, I believe, copies of the Ten Commandments for classrooms.

[00:23:45] And so students across the state of Louisiana are going to have significantly sized copies of the Ten Commandments listed in their classrooms.

[00:23:55] And this should be a no-brainer legally.

[00:23:58] We at First Liberty think it is after our decision in Coach Kennedy.

[00:24:02] His case got rid of decades-old precedent known as the Lemon Test that was previously used in a lot of different circumstances.

[00:24:09] Tell us a little bit about the Lemon Test.

[00:24:10] Yeah, it was previously used in a lot of different circumstances to remove religious imagery such as the Ten Commandments, especially from places like public schools.

[00:24:18] Because anything that could be seen as sort of endorsing religion by the government could essentially at the judge's discretion or whims of opinion on religion could be taken out.

[00:24:30] And so for years we saw things like classroom Ten Commandments or monuments that honored, you know, remembrance, military remembrances for our service members that had religious imagery torn down.

[00:24:41] And so Coach Kennedy's case reversed that long-standing practice we had of getting rid of religion in the public square and really embraced a new era where we can allow for things like the Ten Commandments in a classroom.

[00:24:55] And in public education, we've long recognized the role that, you know, mosaic law has had on the founding of our country and the rule of law.

[00:25:05] And so having, you know, not only something inspiring like the Ten Commandments that is going to promote things like good order in a classroom, it's also a great historical tool for students who are, you know, increasingly not learning about the classics that helped found our country to understand sort of the underpinning of where we got rule of law at a time that that's important.

[00:25:24] If they're doing this in Louisiana, the somebody's got to be suing them, I suspect.

[00:25:31] They said they're going to see you.

[00:25:33] Yeah, they said they're going to sue them.

[00:25:35] Actually, one of our colleagues, Matt Krause, testified concerning the bill in Louisiana.

[00:25:42] And we've offered to our friends in Louisiana, the Attorney General Liz Merrill and the Governor Jeff Landry, we've offered our support and help when and if that happens.

[00:25:53] We sought to have a similar bill passed in the Texas legislature the last…

[00:25:58] Oklahoma as well had a Ten Commandments bill.

[00:26:00] Yeah, and we just didn't get it.

[00:26:02] We got it close in Texas.

[00:26:04] It made it through the Senate and got down to the end.

[00:26:09] And then the speaker, he just said the last three days they got nothing done.

[00:26:15] And so it was a victim of that.

[00:26:17] It wasn't a victim of not support.

[00:26:19] It was a victim of just they ran out of time in the session.

[00:26:22] And that was unfortunate.

[00:26:24] The Louisiana bill, what it basically does is it says if your school receives public funding, then you have to post.

[00:26:30] And it's at least 11 by 14.

[00:26:33] And it makes sense.

[00:26:34] I mean we know…

[00:26:35] The Ten Commandments.

[00:26:36] Ten Commandments, yeah.

[00:26:37] And we know when we go to the US Supreme Court, we look up on the walls and up above the court is all the law givers including Moses and the Ten Commandments.

[00:26:50] I mean it is the basis, the foundational of our legal system.

[00:26:56] And under the current – as Holly said, under the Kennedy test, we're going to look to tradition and history.

[00:27:03] And there should be nothing – I mean what is more historic or more traditional than the Ten Commandments?

[00:27:10] So if they do sue, I mean we will win.

[00:27:16] We'll certainly win.

[00:27:17] We should win.

[00:27:18] I mean they may pick a judge, some district judge in New Orleans or something and maybe get a favorable ruling.

[00:27:24] But I'm very confident that at the Fifth Circuit we win and then I think the Supreme Court would even take the case.

[00:27:31] And so I applaud.

[00:27:34] I mean Louisiana stepped out there.

[00:27:36] It's overturning a decision.

[00:27:38] It's first state right?

[00:27:39] The first state to do this.

[00:27:41] That's the first state to do it.

[00:27:42] And it's overturning a case from 1980 where they banned the posting of the Ten Commandments in our public schools.

[00:27:51] So it's another benefit or fruit from our Kennedy case.

[00:27:55] I mean it just goes back to that.

[00:27:57] I mean you've got a football coach who was willing to fight for seven, eight years about praying after a football game.

[00:28:09] And the result is yes, Coach Kennedy had a great victory and he was able to do that.

[00:28:13] And that sends a strong message about what teachers and coaches and students can do in public schools.

[00:28:19] But it did so much more by taking away this horrible precedent, this Lemon test and Lemon versus Kurtzman.

[00:28:26] That's going to allow things like having religious displays in public schools that are grounded in our history,

[00:28:35] that are grounded in our tradition like the Ten Commandments.

[00:28:38] And I meant to pull it in and just ran out of time this morning, but I think there's a study.

[00:28:44] I know there's a study that talks about when you're posting things like the Ten Commandments versus – you know what some of the things.

[00:28:56] Maybe not in Louisiana but in some school districts what they post.

[00:29:00] I mean if you're posting – I mean this is of course so-called Pride Month.

[00:29:04] But if you're posting rainbows versus posting actually formative moral documents and the impact on their students.

[00:29:12] And as a Christian believer we shouldn't be surprised at that.

[00:29:16] And just to recognize that there is a supreme law, that there is a moral law.

[00:29:21] There is a moral code that for centuries we have followed and it sets that there is a right, there is a wrong.

[00:29:31] I think it's important. I think Louisiana is better for it and I hope Texas next time around passes it.

[00:29:37] I hope Oklahoma passes it. I hope every red state should certainly pass it.

[00:29:42] But the truth is blue states should too.

[00:29:45] I mean again it goes back to the whole theme today.

[00:29:49] It's this idea that we somehow – religion is bad and we need to purge it.

[00:29:52] Whether it's the military or our public schools or our public life, that's just baloney and that's not America.

[00:29:58] And that's certainly not what our founders thought.

[00:30:01] There's been an encouraging trend actually in state legislatures.

[00:30:04] It's not just the Ten Commandments.

[00:30:05] There's been a lot of creativity in bills allowing for chaplains in public schools.

[00:30:10] And so students could have access.

[00:30:12] And Texas was able to pass that and I think Louisiana might have been considering it and Oklahoma as well.

[00:30:17] And then there's also been Florida.

[00:30:19] There's also been a big push on release time religious education.

[00:30:22] So allowing statutes that make sure that students are able to leave for part of the day like they would leave for P.E.

[00:30:28] or health or music class to go receive religious instruction.

[00:30:31] And so it's nice to see state legislatures sort of taking advantage of the freedoms that we were given in the Kennedy case

[00:30:37] and really pushing that and seeing how can we help students have more access to religion in school and public school.

[00:30:43] And you mentioned Matt Krauss.

[00:30:44] He's been doing a great job going across the country to testify for these things

[00:30:48] and make sure that the sort of fear mongering that the ACLU and other groups like that come out firing with

[00:30:53] is really sort of neutralized when he gives a good clear understanding of the law.

[00:30:57] So Jeff, you were mentioning history and tradition for the U.S.

[00:31:02] So if a I'll just pick if a Hindu group comes up and says we have a series of laws we would like to post as well.

[00:31:09] Would that would they be allowed or would that would we say, well, no,

[00:31:13] that's really not part of the history and tradition of the United States.

[00:31:16] And I think that's I mean, that that is probably an easier one with the Hindu, the Hindus.

[00:31:22] It goes back. The test is history and tradition.

[00:31:25] What what is what is the history and tradition?

[00:31:27] I mean, the one that we get all the time is and people say, well, if you do that, then you're going to let the Satanists in.

[00:31:34] And so if we allow if we allow Christian religion or Judeo-Christian religion into our schools,

[00:31:40] then you've got to let everybody in.

[00:31:43] Well, there is no history and tradition that supports Satanism in our public schools.

[00:31:48] It just doesn't exist.

[00:31:49] And so by by by allowing, for instance, time release programs or by allowing we've had cases involving schools who weren't.

[00:31:58] They would let anybody could come that a process for letting people come in and have lunch with students.

[00:32:04] And so if you're a parent or a friend, grandparent, you can have lunch with your student.

[00:32:10] And then school districts started adopting. Well, we can't have the youth minister come.

[00:32:14] And so they banned the youth minister.

[00:32:16] Well, you're letting anybody with it. Well, we can't have religion because, you know,

[00:32:19] if we let the Christian youth minister and then we're going to have to let the Satanists that you don't.

[00:32:24] And I think the history and tradition test goes to the original.

[00:32:29] And so what's the original understanding of the First Amendment, what it prohibits and what the Supreme Court has said?

[00:32:35] We're going to look at that. We're going to look at history and tradition to tell us what is free exercise of religion.

[00:32:39] What is establishment of religion?

[00:32:42] And if it's not grounded in history and tradition, then then it's going to be excluded.

[00:32:47] But if it is, then it can't be excluded.

[00:32:50] And the Ten Commandments is almost a bare minimum.

[00:32:52] But if you look at history and tradition, you had like third graders learning the Westminster Shorter Catechism and memorizing it.

[00:32:57] So can't wait for that. I can't wait for that.

[00:33:00] Well, I read some good John Calvin.

[00:33:03] Yeah, you could. You could have the Apostles Creed and some other things like that,

[00:33:07] which have been part of the history and tradition for a long time.

[00:33:10] Or the doxology.

[00:33:12] Well, and how would our schools be any worse than they are today?

[00:33:17] They couldn't be much worse than they are today.

[00:33:20] So stay with us. We'll be back in just a minute with Holly Brandl and Jeff Matier as we come back for our final segment.

[00:33:27] And we'll discuss just for a few minutes,

[00:33:29] Pentadexter's recent piece that's available on Point of View.

[00:33:32] We'll be right back.

[00:33:35] Since the 1970s, some well-known authors are putting out books touting marriage.

[00:34:02] University of Virginia sociology professor Brad Wilcox makes the case for marriage in his new book, Get Married.

[00:34:08] Why Americans must defy the elites, forge strong families and save civilization.

[00:34:13] In interviews, he points out that a lot of young adults today are under the impression that what really matters in life is your education,

[00:34:19] building your own brand and especially investing your life in a career.

[00:34:23] He says there's a sort of false orientation to a more individualistic and workist or careerist approach to life.

[00:34:29] He calls this the Midas mindset, and it's a major factor in the tendency of young adults to marry later or not to marry at all.

[00:34:36] Novelist and philosopher Cheryl Mendelson has a new book that The Wall Street Journal's Tara Isabel Burton describes as fascinating and morally serious.

[00:34:44] Vows, the modern genius of an ancient rite, chronicles the evolution of wedding vows,

[00:34:50] describing how love became increasingly central to the vows and to marriage itself.

[00:34:55] A key date is 1549, when a consultation of bishops met and produced the first book of common prayer,

[00:35:02] which became a permanent feature of the Church of England's worship and a key source for its doctrine.

[00:35:07] It is generally assumed that this book is largely the work of Thomas Cranmer, the Archbishop of Canterbury, during Henry VIII's break with Rome.

[00:35:15] Archbishop Cranmer built upon the robust medieval vows, adding the promises to love and to cherish.

[00:35:21] Cheryl Mendelson says the vision of marriage that emerged brought to English society a quiet reservoir of freedom and equality,

[00:35:29] encouraging individualism and free choice.

[00:35:31] But this brand of individualism and free choice is different from Brad Wilcox's Midas mindset,

[00:35:37] in which self-written vows are as common as traditional ones.

[00:35:41] The journal's reviewer, Ms. Burton, concludes there is something to those old-school words and the ideals behind them.

[00:35:48] For Point of View, I'm Penna Dexter.

[00:35:51] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:36:00] And we're back with our final segment of Weekend Edition for today.

[00:36:04] And if you were listening online, you heard Penna Dexter's commentary about marriage vows.

[00:36:10] And it raises an interesting question.

[00:36:12] Where did the vows that we have, that we use in marriage, come from?

[00:36:16] I mean, did they just emerge?

[00:36:18] You can't take them directly from the Bible.

[00:36:21] How did they come about?

[00:36:23] And, of course, Jeff and I are old enough to know that – remember back – oh, some years ago, people started kind of making up their own vows.

[00:36:33] They got away from the standard vows.

[00:36:35] They started making their own vows.

[00:36:37] Some of those got a little bit off the beaten path, let's say.

[00:36:43] But the point of Penna's commentary is those vows came out from older tradition.

[00:36:50] And it might be time to relook at some of the old vows again and bring those back in and make those part of the marriage.

[00:36:56] Yeah, and I was trying to think.

[00:36:58] I didn't ask my wife.

[00:37:00] We did talk about Penna's because Penna's a good friend.

[00:37:04] And we did talk about this, but I didn't ask her, which ones did we say?

[00:37:10] You're supposed to remember those, Jeff.

[00:37:13] Now I'm going to get this wrong.

[00:37:15] 36 years.

[00:37:16] Is that right?

[00:37:17] Oh, gosh, Dan.

[00:37:18] I'm sorry.

[00:37:19] But I have to go back and watch that video, I guess, and figure out.

[00:37:24] But I'm pretty sure we did do love, cherish, and obey.

[00:37:28] I think obey was in ours.

[00:37:31] I think my children, two of my three are married.

[00:37:34] And they had traditional vows.

[00:37:36] They did traditional vows.

[00:37:38] But I have been at weddings where people have said things to each other that are not really vows.

[00:37:46] And I guess it's just we love Dr. Carl Truman.

[00:37:50] I guess it's another result of expressive individualism, right?

[00:37:56] It's just that we don't, you know, our own truth.

[00:37:59] And so I know there's a big debate about whether the female would say obey.

[00:38:05] But they've kind of gone it's more than just not saying obey.

[00:38:11] It's a lot.

[00:38:12] So I don't know.

[00:38:13] You've probably gone to some weddings, haven't you?

[00:38:15] I've attended plenty of weddings, yeah.

[00:38:17] There's a mix, I think, kind of of weddings of people our age.

[00:38:21] Some people do the more traditional routes and people will write their own.

[00:38:25] And like you said, sometimes when people write their own, they get a little creative.

[00:38:28] You can always tell in those situations when, like, one person put a little more thought into what they wanted to say than the other.

[00:38:34] And that's a little awkward.

[00:38:35] That's kind of strange to be in the audience for.

[00:38:38] But no, you mentioned Carl Truman.

[00:38:40] I think his point in a lot of things is there's value in things that have been sort of ratified by time and understood to be biblical understandings.

[00:38:51] And there's no reason to get away from those just to do something new, though.

[00:38:55] You know, we because of the vows sort of initially put a you were here to cherish you for life, rich or better, richer, poor, better or worse sickness and health.

[00:39:06] And I think back as a younger person when I took those vows, did I really think because marriage can be a long, long time if you stay with the same person?

[00:39:18] And I don't know that I gave as much thought to those vows as I probably should have in just a sense that they are such a major commitment because you're kind of thinking, I'm getting married to this person.

[00:39:29] But you're really making such a major commitment for the rest of your life.

[00:39:33] Well, I'm far too young to be married.

[00:39:35] So, well, and it's I mean, and it goes back to me.

[00:39:38] Do we do we do we view marriage as a covenant?

[00:39:43] And, you know, for most of.

[00:39:47] The last thousand years, I mean, this is, you know, we think 1549.

[00:39:53] So so that's that's that's approaching five over five approaching five years.

[00:40:00] I've got to get my math right yet.

[00:40:02] Yet lawyer doing.

[00:40:05] Five hundred years.

[00:40:06] So 500 years.

[00:40:07] But we view marriage as a covenant.

[00:40:10] And with Oberfell and the expansion of marriage to include others than one male and one female, the whole concept of covenant marriage.

[00:40:23] I mean, that that that's foreign.

[00:40:25] And so covenant, you know, these vows reflect something very serious.

[00:40:31] It's a vow.

[00:40:32] It's a covenant, which obviously the biblical terminology of a covenant when when someone makes a covenant.

[00:40:38] But if you don't, if you're not making a covenant and it's something, you know, this is hard.

[00:40:43] So I'm going to, you know, I'm giving up a divorce.

[00:40:48] You know, I've been married both long enough to know that.

[00:40:51] Look, there are days that marriage is really hard.

[00:40:54] And and it's a match with me.

[00:40:56] Well, it is.

[00:40:59] And this is it will get my wife to call it.

[00:41:03] But and I know I'm usually the problem.

[00:41:06] But but and, you know, but because we view it as a covenant, she's not walked away from it.

[00:41:12] And neither have I.

[00:41:13] And I think a vow does that.

[00:41:15] And it builds that this is a permanent relationship.

[00:41:18] And the vows, the vows reflect that our society does not.

[00:41:22] When you have a divorce rate of over 50 percent, including a divorce rate of over 50 percent of Christians.

[00:41:27] I mean, there's no difference.

[00:41:28] And you guys know this, these statistics, but there's statistically no difference between someone who claims to be a Christian and someone who does not.

[00:41:36] The divorce rates are both over 50 percent.

[00:41:40] The other bigger problem, I think, I mean, one is divorce.

[00:41:42] The other big problem is people aren't giving Holly's not getting married.

[00:41:49] Now your parents are going to be calling in.

[00:41:52] But now your generation, your generation, you're delaying it.

[00:41:56] And and you're you're delaying it.

[00:41:59] And I think Professor Wilcox points out University of Virginia, Professor Wilcox, which I mean, people are delaying.

[00:42:07] They they want to get in.

[00:42:09] Look, I've heard this from at least one of my children, one that's not married now.

[00:42:14] Get her to call in is, you know, well, you want everything you want.

[00:42:19] You want everything checked off, you know, career.

[00:42:22] You want education, education, everything.

[00:42:25] And as someone who my wife and I got married at 21 and 20, trust me, we had checked none of the boxes.

[00:42:32] I mean, we were both still in school.

[00:42:34] You know, I had three more years of law school, you know, and you got that.

[00:42:39] And then a baby came.

[00:42:41] It happens.

[00:42:42] And and the truth is this.

[00:42:45] What I've told my kids and so, Holly, you can cover yours if you want to be here.

[00:42:49] An old dad says you're not.

[00:42:51] There's always going to be another reason.

[00:42:53] I mean, there's always going to be something else you need to do.

[00:42:57] And and it's just I think we've raised a generation of kids who and I guess it's expressive individualism that that manifests itself.

[00:43:12] They're just waiting and they think it's going to we'll get married when we're 30.

[00:43:15] We'll get married when we're 40.

[00:43:17] And that's unfortunate because the best things that have happened in my life now, I hope my wife is listening, but it's absolutely true.

[00:43:25] Are my family right?

[00:43:27] Absent God, it's my family.

[00:43:28] It's my wife and it's my kids.

[00:43:30] And I love I mean, one thing I love being a young, relatively young grandparent.

[00:43:35] I mean, I if I wouldn't get, you know, I'd hate to be in my 80s and, you know, having a two year old grandchild or child like some folks as millennial here.

[00:43:47] Yeah, you guys are you guys are both looking at me like it's time to offer the rebuttal.

[00:43:52] No, I think if you statistically look, yes, at my generation, you'll see that you're noticing people getting married later and people having children later.

[00:44:00] I don't know that I necessarily think that's altogether a bad thing.

[00:44:03] I do think people have different sort of opportunities before them and things they want to do.

[00:44:07] And perhaps we can call this a consequence of having more women that are working and pursuing professional careers as well.

[00:44:14] I think in that sense, we need to make sure that we're encouraging.

[00:44:17] And First Liberty does a great job of doing this.

[00:44:19] We have a lot of female attorneys that are married and have children and doing incredible work with us at First Liberty.

[00:44:25] And so I think we really have to encourage women and young men that you sort of can get married young and do the things that you want to do professionally.

[00:44:33] Well, I want to thank Holly Randall and Jeff Mateer, both of First Liberty Institute for joining us today.

[00:44:38] I also want to thank Megan for doing the engineering.

[00:44:41] Steve for being there doing the producing.

[00:44:44] And of course, we have articles, links to all these articles on our Web site at point of view dot net.

[00:44:49] So I'd encourage you to go and take a look at those and download those and get engaged with them because there's some very interesting material there.

[00:44:57] And I want to thank you for joining us here on Point of View.

[00:44:59] We'll be back on Monday.

[00:45:01] Our historical figures did battle not with guns and bombs, but words and ideas.

[00:45:19] London was home to Karl Marx, the father of communism and legendary Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon.

[00:45:27] London was in many ways the center of the world economically, militarily and intellectually.

[00:45:34] Marx sought to destroy religion, the family and everything the Bible supports.

[00:45:39] Spurgeon stood against him, warning of socialism's dangers.

[00:45:43] Spurgeon understood Christianity is not just religious truth.

[00:45:48] It is truth for all of life.

[00:45:50] Where do you find men with that kind of wisdom to stand against darkness today?

[00:45:55] Get the light you need on today's most pressing issues delivered to your inbox when you sign up for the viewpoints commentary at point of view dot net slash sign up every weekday.

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[00:46:24] Point of View is produced by Point of View Ministries.