Point of View June 4, 2026: The Round Table

[00:00:04] Across America, live, this is Point of View. And now, Liberty McCartney. Welcome to the Point of View Round Table. Thanks for being here today. It's going to be a great conversation. Co-host in the first hour on opposite sides of the country on either coast, Richard Lim and Josh Barnes, and you know them both very well. They are with me.

[00:00:33] And, you know, I didn't even really plan it as I was picking out these topics to discuss today. But as I've been reading over everything and preparing, I'm kind of seeing a theme emerge. And sometimes this happens. And the theme that I'm seeing that I think will carry through several of our topics today are principles. What are our principles? How do we stay true to our beliefs in a world that is very morally confusing and crazy and upside down? And I know we're millennials, I think, this hour. I have a couple of Gen Z co-hosts in the second hour.

[00:01:02] But how do we navigate all of that and apply our beliefs and principles to different areas of politics and family and everything? So I think that's the theme that we'll be discussing through multiple topics today. But Richard, Josh, it's great to talk with you both. Great to be here. I love it. We're in sync already. OK, so, Richard, I do have to ask about California from which you hail.

[00:01:29] And so we are all eyes are on the primary election results because it's taking a while to come in, I think, as of yesterday afternoon. So it's probably more by now. But 62 percent of the votes were counted. And as a conservative talk show, we often find ways to pick fun at the state of California and some of the policies. As you should. As you should.

[00:01:56] Well, you know, it's not not to, you know, just take all the easy dunks. But sometimes there are some policies and things like that where, you know, we do get to kind of take our shot there. But it seems like maybe some common sense is breaking out. For instance, you've got Spencer Pratt, who I mean, he is a reality TV star formerly, who is really calling out a lot of the issues in L.A.

[00:02:18] And he's actually right now at the last numbers I looked at in second place in that primary race for mayor of L.A. And then you've got a Republican candidate. Last I looked actually in the lead so far, again, is like 27 percent because all of the votes are still being counted for the governor of California. So, Richard, what do you make of everything that's happening? So, as you know, I used to live in the Washington, D.C. area. I have a lot of friends who work for the establishment.

[00:02:48] They had ambitions to enter office. But for a lot of them, it just hasn't happened. And a big part of that is they just don't get it. They don't understand the current political climate we're in. Meanwhile, Spencer Pratt comes out of nowhere. He's personally suffered from the bad policies here. His house burned down. And that resonates in that resonates with voters who also are suffering from these policies. I live in Southern California now. It's a disaster.

[00:03:18] I've seen it personally. I tell my young coworkers, I'm old enough to remember a Republican mayor of Los Angeles in the 90s, Richard Reardon, and a conservative governor of California, Pete Wilson. And they can't believe it because they have been living in the People's Republic of California for their entire lives. The fact that Spencer Pratt caught fire shows that voters believe that a reality show jerk, and we love him, but let's be honest, he played a real jerk on the hills.

[00:03:48] They know that that guy is way better than anyone the Republican establishment has been grooming for decades. He's so much better than any of these people who fantasize about being in politics, that have been in the establishment, being in elective office. But here's a guy who represents the kind of person that should be elected, somebody that was living his life and was affected personally by these things and is running for a cause.

[00:04:15] He's not running because he wants to be in office or he thinks that he's a leader or whatever. He's running because he's fed up with these policies. And doesn't this all sound familiar? A reality TV show star that hates the establishment and sees it as ineffective or pernicious and goes against it. That's what the Trump movement is all about. Trump was the template, a reality show star who isn't wedded to the dumb rules of the establishment. And that's what I'm thinking with Spencer Pratt.

[00:04:44] He's got a lot going up against him. I'm glad he's second place right now. I hope it stays. And I hope that he can coalesce a majority or at least a plurality in the general election. He has a lot going against them because they've brainwashed so many people in L.A. But that's where we are. And I hope it just shows the death of the establishment and the party even more.

[00:05:07] Well, Josh, I agree with Richard that this does seem reminiscent of 10 or so years ago whenever you saw what kind of took a lot of people by surprise, the popularity of a former reality TV star and real estate mogul and everything, Donald Trump. And so I know that you're not in California or on the opposite side of the country. But we have seen a lot of crazy things in California.

[00:05:32] You've seen just, you know, the common sense things to us like ban on voter I.D. or policies at schools telling kids that they could transition their gender without and schools weren't obligated to tell their parents. I mean, we could go on and on.

[00:05:49] And so just kind of the big picture, what's your sense of people maybe willing to kind of cross over to a different party or ideology just because they are tired of something that's not working? Yeah. You know, I think when you have somebody who's a populist like Spencer Pratt or like Donald Trump who kind of tries to stay away from extremes on certain things

[00:06:19] and tries to go with, you know, 80-20 issues, that kind of thing, then, you know, you have people that are willing to say, well, you know, I don't really care whether it's an R or a D in front of their name. That doesn't really matter so much to me. I just want somebody who's going to do a good job. I think that's generally what people think, or at least historically that's how people have thought. And it's encouraging to see that.

[00:06:40] For me, when I look at this, though, I see this as a very Christian issue because L.A. is like the epicenter of some of the worst persecution against Christians that has happened in the last, you know, decade in America. I mean, the $1,000 fines a day that they threatened to John MacArthur's church during COVID. There's even a story I found recently about they're shutting down a church that was meeting on the beach.

[00:07:09] They can only meet on the beach six times a year where historically they've always met there. Things like that. They're constantly trying to push back against Christianity, especially in the schools, trying to root out any kind of Christianity from the schools and put transgenderism and all that kind of nonsense in there, in the libraries and all those things. So I see this as a very Christian issue. You know, we don't have to have elected officials that agree with us in everything.

[00:07:35] 1 Timothy 2 tells us we're looking for elected officials who will let us lead a quiet and peaceable life in godliness and honesty. And I think Christians are looking at Spencer Pratt and saying, yeah, maybe he doesn't have a stand on abortion like I like or whatever. But I think he's more likely to let us lead a quiet and peaceable life in godliness and honesty. Yeah, a good perspective there, too, with just kind of the crazy policies that have targeted Christians. So we're about to go to a break.

[00:08:02] But when we come back, let's keep talking about this issue of applying morality to politics, because it can be confusing for Republicans and Democrats, as we'll see. But just a reminder, too, that Republican Steve Hilton was current with last time I looked just a few minutes ago, leading the pack of would be governors. And this is from the free press. The message from a growing and very vocal contingent of voters is crystal clear. They want the crazy to stop in California.

[00:08:29] And so maybe we will see a little bit of common sense prevail in L.A. Maybe we'll see a little bit of change in the governor's mansion. We will see. We'll be keeping an eye on it. But let's talk about some more political news when we come back from this break.

[00:09:00] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson. You know, over the last month, we've been talking about China. And when talking about China, we usually talk about its strengths and technological developments. But there's another side to intelligence gathering illustrated by a speech given by Herbert Meyer, who served as a special assistant to the director of central intelligence. He explained that from the end of World War II until 1982, every president's objective was to not lose the Cold War.

[00:09:28] When President Ronald Reagan came into office, he wanted to change that mindset. He switched from playing defense to playing offense. So Reagan's director of central intelligence, William Casey, asked the CIA's Soviet division two obvious questions. Where is the Soviet Union weak and where is it most vulnerable? The surprising answer they received was, we don't know. No one has ever asked that before. Over the years, the CIA and other intelligence gathering agencies were able to gather lots of information about Soviet strengths.

[00:09:57] Infantry divisions, nuclear missiles, tanks, submarines, but never collected information on Soviet weaknesses. Under Casey's leadership, they refocused collection efforts and found all sorts of Soviet vulnerabilities. President Reagan used these weaknesses and vulnerabilities to put more pressure on the Kremlin. Eight years later, the Berlin Wall came down. And two years after that, the Soviet Union ceased to exist. You know, there's a lesson to be learned here.

[00:10:23] Sometimes the important information is out there, but never collected because it doesn't seem relevant to the intelligence gathering mindset the president or the bureaucracy might have. Intelligence work is like science. You don't collect random information and hope that something will pop up. You need an informed view of the world and know what you want to accomplish. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:49] Go deeper on topics like you just heard by visiting pointofview.net. That's pointofview.net. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. And as I always mention, you can follow along with the topics we're discussing today at pointofview.net, including the articles.

[00:11:12] So if you want to read a little bit more about the election results in California so far, there's an article for that at pointofview.net. But let's talk about another one from National Review assuaging the Graham-Plattner guilt complex. So you have Graham Plattner running for Senate in Maine, and the incumbent is Republican Susan Collins, who we would probably say very establishment, more bipartisan, votes with Democrats on issues a lot of times. And so let's just say Plattner has problems.

[00:11:42] Okay, this is the guy with the Nazi tattoo. You have comments he's made in the past about women and minorities on Reddit and online places like that that, let's just say, definitely would be highly criticized, especially if they were made by anybody running as a Republican.

[00:12:00] And then now, most recently, there are allegations that have come out that are more like admissions that he has had his marital issues as well. And so this is interesting because you do have Democrats now. Just for an example, this was the headline from the Boston Globe yesterday. For women, Plattner versus Collins is a tough choice.

[00:12:26] Many are willing to embrace a flawed candidate at the cost of the party's credibility. So he said some things that are pretty anti-woman. He's apparently cheated on his wife. He's got the whole Nazi baggage. And yet you are starting to see some arguments saying, hey, this is in the past or he's the best candidate for our party. And you're kind of seeing Democrats, Josh, wrestle with this. So I want to talk about this for a couple of reasons.

[00:12:54] One, because it's reminiscent of, I mean, not a one-to-one comparison, but let's just say some of the kind of wrestling that a lot of Republicans did when have continued to do with Donald Trump. And where do we draw the line with morality? When does pragmatism over certain principles win the day? And so it would be easy to kind of joke about Democrats now, you know, being a little hypocritical or saying, well, no, it's OK.

[00:13:24] We can excuse these because we're not, you know, voting for our husband. We're voting for, you know, somebody in this position. But I would rather say, well, this is just kind of what a lot of Americans have been wrestling with for a long time. And it brings up some really important questions. So, Josh, what do you think? Yeah, I think the psychological aspect of this one is really fascinating.

[00:13:50] And, you know, being here in New Hampshire, it's almost like I'm connected to it a little bit because I have a lot of friends and stuff in Maine. And so this is, yeah, it's interesting. It started with the, at least most people heard the first problem, you know, the first thing that dropped was the Nazi tattoo that he was wearing. And, you know, I think he covered that up and, you know, said, well, I didn't know what it was and all of this stuff.

[00:14:19] But the thing that I think I find striking is that there is, he is everything that people try to, that the left tries to accuse Donald Trump of being. And now Trump, of course, is not a perfectly holy or righteous man, not even close. But a lot of the things they try to accuse him of doing, try to accuse him of being, this man seems to be very, very much that.

[00:14:45] Like he has active, he has an active profile or until just a few days ago when the story broke, he had an active profile on a website, a dating website, which included, you know, underage kinds of things that were going on on that website. So all the kinds of things they try to accuse Trump of is exactly what is happening, you know, in this case. And I find that very ironic. But you're right.

[00:15:12] The point that we're trying to go for as Christians, we should be like zoomed in on this one thing. What are their policies going to do for Christians? If we can get a Christian person in there, that would be great. But if we can't, we know they're evil people. What are they going to do? What are their policies going to do? How are they going to affect us as believers? And I think if you look at Graham Plattner's policies, you have to reject him as a Christian.

[00:15:36] And I really do think that should be, even though maybe it's not the most effective way to convince the world that they should not vote for this man. I think for Christians in a church, in a church setting among your fellow believers, that's how we should argue against voting for a person like that. Richard, what are your thoughts?

[00:15:55] Because, you know, like we've been talking about, we are seeing this kind of reversal from a lot of people who are trying to endorse somebody that they would have criticized if there was a different letter behind their name previously. And what does this mean? Do you think that more people are moving toward a kind of pragmatic approach to who they elect to office regardless of party?

[00:16:20] Well, it's a fair question because when I was growing up, Bill Clinton was president. And, you know, a big attack line, appropriately so, was the fact that Bill Clinton didn't have the character to be president. And so a lot of people have said that, oh, it's hypocritical, therefore, to, you know, support a candidate, you know, Republican to support a candidate who doesn't have a high moral standard.

[00:16:44] And it's interesting, you know, you know that I'm obviously a president's guy, obsessed with the presidents. And I thought a lot about different presidents and their contributions to this country. And I was thinking, you know, as a good conservative, you know, Ronald Reagan, obviously here was a man who combined the character with the great policies. And you've had other presidents like, say, Jimmy Carter, who many people consider a man of character, but who had terrible policies.

[00:17:14] But then you throw in someone like Richard Nixon, who, you know, people find his morality challenging at times. Make what you will of that. But some people say, you know, compared to today, he wasn't, you know, what he did was small potatoes. But make what you will of it.

[00:17:34] And yet I think for myself personally, if I had a chance to choose between a Richard Nixon and a Jimmy Carter, I would probably choose a Richard Nixon in terms of his policies. But if you were to give me a choice between Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan, I would choose Ronald Reagan. So there are times where you can't have everything. You can have somebody who may be in terms of their conduct and their character. You know, they're not a perfect person, but their policies are great.

[00:18:03] Or if you have a choice between, you know, with somebody who has great character and great policies, you would choose that person. But in a fallen world, you have to know that you have to choose the best possible option. Just like the way Americans chose to ally with the Soviet Union against Nazi Germany. That's not an endorsement of the Soviet Union, but it's a recognition that we can't take on the Soviet Union now. Let's take on the Nazis and later on we can take on the Soviet Union.

[00:18:31] And so I think it's a recognition of reality, which speaks to another Christian value, which is that of prudence and understanding what to take on and what issues to focus on in a given moment. Yeah, that's helpful. And I'll be honest, you know, I've wrestled with this because I think maybe it's because my personality is a little bit of an idealist. But then as Christians, we want to think that way, too.

[00:18:55] And it's interesting to me that we are kind of having this this debate about character again, because I think you're right, Richard. We do need to apply prudence and we we can't have these perfect choices all the time. And yet I don't think, Josh, as Christians, we want to and I'm not saying that you were arguing this, Richard, but we don't want to go all the way and say, well, character doesn't matter at all.

[00:19:21] We may be faced with some subpar choices and yet we don't want to lose the moral standing to say actually character in private life does matter. Right. I mean, isn't that what integrity is, is the willingness to do the right thing even when nobody else is a while around? Yeah, I mean, of course, that's true. I mean, we we want leaders who are have moral integrity and have character.

[00:19:48] That's what made America great. And that's what will make America great again is is not just having the right policies, but having people that we set up as our leaders who are good people who are righteous. And but when we you know, it's also true that the pragmatism is Richard is exactly right. That is a very Christian thing. If you were to talk to Paul in the first century, he would he would have said, look, I, you know,

[00:20:18] I would rather have an emperor of the Roman Empire who is a Christian. But until that happens, I would rather just not having Nero putting Christians to death on stake. So I think it's pretty reasonable to be pragmatic, but also turn to our children and say that activity is inappropriate. And even though I voted for that president, that shouldn't be the way that he acts or that person, whether it's a president or not.

[00:20:44] You know, I think that we are entering a time when we're having to have those difficult conversations and that discernment and those conversations with our kids, which are so important because this is kind of what I come back to is that, well, if we don't like the people who are rising up out of the populace to become our options for leaders, maybe there's a problem with the moral character of the culture at large. And so as Richard always brings with your historical perspective, reminding us that there have never been any perfect figures in the past.

[00:21:14] Maybe we were lulled into thinking that or just assuming that there would be better moral character, at least on the outside in the past because of biblical values being a little more pervasive in our culture. Not necessarily the case anymore, but let's keep talking about it when we come back. The Bible tells us not to worry. And yet there is a lot of worrying stuff in our world today.

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[00:23:05] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now here again is Liberty McCarter. Okay, so we've been talking about political leaders and moral character and what we would like to see in leaders, what decisions that we may have to make whenever there are candidates that are not our preference. But speaking of character and political leaders,

[00:23:35] I did want to mention that Richard Lim, who, of course, as you know, hosts this American President podcast, also has a book coming out that is just the perfect book for this, the 250th anniversary of America. So, Richard, I did want to mention that and let you tell us about your forthcoming book for a minute. Hey, Richard. Okay, well, we'll come back to him in a moment and see if maybe he's on mute.

[00:24:04] But he does have a book coming out on George Washington. I preordered it. I believe it's coming out in October. And as you know, Richard is just the expert when it comes to his American history and presidents and things like that. So that'll definitely be something that we'll want to talk with him about and read whenever the time comes. But let's talk a little bit about this issue of principles. We were talking about personal moral character and how that influences somebody's political capabilities or should influence.

[00:24:34] But what about just our political philosophy in general? And so that's why I chose this article from The Wall Street Journal, A Republican Time for Choosing, which, of course, is an echo of the famous speech by Ronald Reagan when he was campaigning for Barry Goldwater in the 60s, A Time for Choosing. And fun fact, I actually mentioned I was talking about that speech one time with Kirby. And he said, oh, yeah, I was there. So he actually saw Ronald Reagan give this speech that's now become super famous.

[00:25:02] So fun fact, I think Kirby's been everywhere. But, Richard, I think you're on the line now. So do you want to tell us a little bit about your book about George Washington? Oh, sure. Yes. So, yeah, the book is basically the book that I had always wished someone else had written. It does a deep dive into Washington giving up power. It's something that we've always been told about Washington.

[00:25:25] But there are a lot of different threads there, not just the Judeo-Christian influence on Washington and the founding, but also, you know, the fact that this was a key moment in America's transition from being colonies under a monarchy and having accepted a monarchy, just like the whole world, to rejecting it vehemently in a very short period of time.

[00:25:50] And how Washington leaving power is the symbolic moment that really made that happen. So, yeah, I'm thrilled about it. And you can check it out on Amazon, Refusing a Crown, How George Washington Changed the World. Yes. And I would recommend you do that, get that preorder in. But, Josh, let's talk a little bit about the future of conservatism. And I wanted to bring this up because, obviously, President Trump hasn't gone out of office yet,

[00:26:14] but he is nearing kind of that lame duck session or period of time within a president's second term in office. And we are needing to think about the future. And so one of the things that actually former Vice President Mike Pence writes about in The Wall Street Journal is populism versus conservatism. He talks about conservatism being rooted in principle and how, especially in his second term,

[00:26:42] he argues that Trump has moved away from more conservative principles and really leaned more into the populism, which I think was there from the beginning of Trump's kind of rise into politics, and talks about how often what you hear from populists is common sense. In fact, we were talking about that with Spencer Pratt and what's happening in California. But is there a limit to that? So, Josh, feel free to take this wherever you would like to in terms of conservatism versus populism.

[00:27:10] Yeah, you know, that's – you're absolutely right, by the way, Liberty, that all of these kind of go together, these subjects, because that is the natural next question, right? If we're going to say we want someone who's moral, we want someone who's Christian, but, you know, we'll take the best we can get, we'll be pragmatic about it, and I think that is the right choice.

[00:27:33] We also have to be careful because the danger of pragmatism is making it look like conservatism is that new thing, is that populism. And we have to be – I think as conservatives, we have to be very clear. It is not conservative to sideline the abortion issue so you can get elected. That's not conservative. So we need to understand – I was having this conversation with my brother the other day.

[00:27:59] I think that conservatism, by definition, is Christian. And the further a person goes from Christianity, the further they go from conservatism. Because conservatism is – it's a word that means we're trying to conserve the way our country was founded, and our country was absolutely founded on the principles of the Bible and the Christian principles of the Christian Bible, not just the Old Testament Jewish Bible.

[00:28:27] The Christian ideas are the things that we are conserving in conservatism. So I think it's important that we make that distinction. You know, hey, look, we'll take a candidate that's 80 percent conservative if we have to. But that other 20 percent, we want to make sure that we say loud and clear, this is not conservatism, and we don't accept this even though we'll vote for you. Yeah, Richard, what's your take here? One of the things that I agree with here in this column is that popular opinion is fickle.

[00:28:56] Principles are final. And even when we talk about common sense, what's common sense in one decade or century might not be common sense going forward. So where do you find that balance between common sense, populism, pragmatism, and principle? Right. Well, you know, the thing is, is that populism, I think you could argue, has certain tensions that it has with conservatism.

[00:29:23] Our country was founded, as conservatives rightly like to say, not as a democracy but as a republic. So there was a kind of an idea that populism itself was inherently dangerous. The more it tends towards democracy, pure democracy, because it reflects the passions of the people. We know as Christians the people are, you know, we're all sinners. And so the passions and desires of the people aren't necessarily always good.

[00:29:50] However, the founders in creating a republic also wanted authority ultimately to come from the people. So there is a populist element there. It's kind of a built-in tension there because, you know, we have elements of democracy, elements of populism. And there were founders that also did support a more populist structure of the government.

[00:30:15] James Wilson, one of the framers of the Constitution who had a big role in writing Article 2, which created the presidency, was big on popular sovereignty and on the president being a guardian against entrenched interests in the legislature. That's a big reason why we even have a president, because the founders knew that legislatures became corrupt and entrenched

[00:30:39] and represented narrow interests, and you need, you know, a figure that unifies the whole country. So it is a tension. I think when populism becomes populism for populism's sake, you know, the people being the voice of God, that's when we need to push back and say, okay, is this really conservative?

[00:31:00] But conservatism can be a tool, or populism can be a tool for conservatism if it's the kind of populism that brings us back to founding principles. And I think the Trump administration has often pushed for a populism that honors originalism in the interpretation of the Constitution, and that's when we support that.

[00:31:21] But I think, unfortunately, we're starting to see populism just attacked in and of itself being something, you know, intrinsically opposite to conservatism. I don't think that's necessarily the case. I appreciate that perspective there, just with the tension that is inherent in our system of government, and I think that's important. And, Josh, it's important to really educate the next generation about how our nation was founded,

[00:31:48] and I think that's an example of something that conservatism can be for, because this is a good point that's in the article, is that we can't just be reactionary. We can't be a movement defined by what we're against. But if we want to have populism as a tool we can use, you kind of need to have a populist that's educated about founding principles and has that moral element as well. Yeah, you know, I think that's, of course, true.

[00:32:17] I mean, when the populist is well-educated on conservatism, I think that they are conservative. So populism can be very conservative if the populist leans conservative. But that's why populism leans against conservatism where the populist is not on the side of conservatism. So like I mentioned in abortion and those sort of areas where it's not as popular, the conservative principles,

[00:32:45] but the majority of them are, which is why Trump as a populist is very conservative, because the majority of positions are just pretty well common sense and agreed upon. But you're right. The way that we make the populist more conservative is by educating them. This is what frustrates me, and I don't want to just keep harping on abortion,

[00:33:06] but that's what frustrates me about many politicians backing away from the issue rather than just dealing with it in the debate, on the commercials, whatever they have to do. Because when we deal with the issue of abortion, we push back on it. It's very easy to prove that it is immoral to murder an innocent human being. It's not hard to make that argument. Many people in the United States have never heard that argument made well. Yeah.

[00:33:36] Good point. Well, let's keep talking about it and some other moral and ethical issues having to do with the next generation, particularly with biotechnology, when we come back. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:34:06] Okay, so before we move on and talk about biotechnological anarchy, I have really enjoyed this conversation about politics and morals and character and principles and how do we navigate that in a culture that really is not predominantly Christian anymore, even though a majority of people identify as Christian. We know from the research that we see from Dr. George Varna, for instance, is that the number of people who hold a biblical worldview and so are really living out biblical teaching

[00:34:35] in their daily life is very low. And so as Christians who are trying to be consistent with the biblical worldview in our lives, it can be complicated to navigate that reality. So before we move on and talk about this particular issue, I'll give both of you a chance. Richard, any final thoughts you have on how we are navigating the political climate or what you'd like to see in the future in regards to a return to principles? Yeah, absolutely.

[00:35:01] I mean, I think, you know, it's very sad when you see that just our education system and our culture doesn't teach that, you know, just moral goodness and, you know, unambiguous goodness is a good thing. You know, if you look at the superheroes that are really popular now, a lot of them are the morally ambiguous heroes. And the people, the superheroes that are considered good are Boy Scouts

[00:35:31] or they're boring or all that kind of stuff. And I think that as Christians, you know, we stand by the fact that there is such a thing as goodness, you know, righteousness, and that we should be, you know, we should promote that, we should try to live it out, and we should celebrate that. But at the same time, knowing that it is a morally good thing to choose the least bad option at times, especially if you have no other option.

[00:35:58] If you have two options and one is very imperfect but the other stands for evil, you choose the very imperfect. And I think those are two things you could hold at the same time. Yeah, well said. What about you, Josh? Josh? Yeah, you know, I think the answer is going to be in education, as we've already mentioned. And I really do, as a pastor, I see that as a huge responsibility that's laid on the church.

[00:36:25] I think churches need to be encouraging parents and families to be teaching their children and to be educating the next generation not only about Christianity but about how Christian principles should be voted on and about the positive Christian principles that are at the heart of the founding of this country. And it really is frustrating to me when I see pastors who want to take a third-way approach where they don't want to be too political in their churches.

[00:36:52] I say, well, that's part of the reason why people aren't educated on the Christian principles of politics because the churches want to stay out of it and not be too political. I think we need to be political where the Bible is political. Yeah, and this is a great example of a resource you can use, Point of View. I grew up listening to Point of View in the car, at lunch, in the kitchen, on break from homeschooling.

[00:37:17] And my parents would talk about these things openly, and we would wrestle with a lot of these kinds of questions. And so I think modeling that for your kids and integrating that into your family lifestyle is really important. But also conversations we have to have about all the new technology that we have. So we might talk about this in the second hour as well, but I did want to mention it here before the end of this hour. Of course, you all know I like to talk about the dangers of AI,

[00:37:45] but this article from National Review argues that biotechnology might be even more impactful. So what we're talking about is gene editing. And so what we are seeing are some companies that are really arguing that you can have your best baby by selecting the embryo that's the healthiest or with technologies like CRISPR, maybe even work on the DNA a little bit before the baby is born. And, of course, there are applications for people who already are born,

[00:38:14] and those are maybe some breakthroughs for curing diseases and things like that. But there are some dangers, too, that kind of go back to eugenics. So, Josh, what are your thoughts on the direction that we're seeing some of this biotech headed, especially with regard to IVF, embryo screening, and things like that? You know, it's difficult for me to comment on the direction. I'm not good at making predictions.

[00:38:38] And I also trust that God is going to keep us from doing what, you know, world-ending all of the human race. It seems like that might happen sometimes. But I will say that it does show that we have this terribly selfish view of children in our country where we want children only when we feel like it, when we want them. We want the certain kind of child. We want a certain thing. We also have no faith in God to just trust God to give us the child that he wants us to have.

[00:39:08] And I think it's at least in that case, in that way, it's a sign of the times, a sign of where we are as a society. Yeah, that's such a good point about selfishness. Richard, what are your thoughts? Well, yeah, you know, I can't imagine anything bad coming from this, you know, whenever humans try to play God. But, you know, I would say that as Christians, you know, when we look at technology,

[00:39:33] technology being a tool, when it comes to biotechnology, being able to possibly cure diseases, that's a wonderful thing so long as it's within the moral boundaries. That's very different from trying to essentially design babies. There's a huge moral difference between healing people and engineering people. We know from scripture that every person is made in the image of God.

[00:39:57] Our value, you know, it's not from our IQ or our genetics or our appearance. So once people start selecting traits for their children, you know, you start commodifying children. You know, and I think it's one of those things that it goes back to the temptation in the garden, you know, the desire to take God's place, to be God.

[00:40:25] And that is, I think, the great threat that comes from this and really objectifying humans, which is really terrifying. Yeah. You know, you're so right, Richard, on this has been the core issue since the beginning of time, since the fall anyway. I know I sound like a broken record because I think almost every time I've had the opportunity to be on point of view over the past couple of weeks, I've mentioned The Abolition of Man by C.S. Lewis

[00:40:50] because he makes this argument that human beings are obsessed with our ability to conquer and conquest even nature. And he argues that the last thing to be conquered will be man itself, which is why that book is called The Abolition of Man. So to your point, Josh, hopefully God won't let us get there, but it does seem like that's the direction that we're heading. So I encourage people to check this out. It's an article at pointofview.net.

[00:41:17] Do we have the will or desire to prevent biotechnological anarchy? And some of the arguments made by people working with this technology is that, hey, it's inevitable. So if you don't have good actors who are involved in it, then it's just going to be driven underground. The jury's still out for me on whether or not that's a good argument or not. We will see. But we're about out of time for this hour. As always, it goes way too fast.

[00:41:44] So, Josh, tell us where people can follow you and your work, and feel free to make any last comments in the next few seconds. Absolutely. Yeah, you can find me on YouTube. I've got the Bible Explained YouTube channel and also POV Scriptura, where I apply the scripture to politics. Both of those are YouTube channels, so you can find them pretty easy. Awesome. Thanks for being on with us today, Josh. It's always great to hear you on the Roundtable.

[00:42:11] Richard, where can people find out about your podcast and book? Yeah. They can go to thisamericanpresident.com. They can listen to the podcast This American President on any of the places they listen to their podcasts, Spotify, iTunes. And my book, Refusing a Crown, George Washington Changed the World. It's on Amazon. You can go to my website, richardmlim.com. Very vain URL, but that's what it is. And so you can check out information about the podcast and the book there.

[00:42:41] Awesome. Well, it makes it easy to find. Thanks for being on, Richard. It's always great to talk with both of you. And we're about to go to a break, but when we come back, we're going to talk with John Mancini and Alyssa Sonnenberg. Alyssa Sonnenberg, continue the Roundtable today. So let's talk about the trad wife panic. What people are saying in the mainstream media, surprise, surprise, might not be true because it turns out that married women, both conservative and liberals, tend to be the happiest.

[00:43:08] We'll also talk about what Planned Parenthood is up to these days and more after the break. Where does moral truth come from? According to 58% of Americans, individuals determine moral truth. A quarter of Generation Z says society determines moral truth and morality can even change over time. Only 42% of Americans believe that truth comes from God.

[00:43:35] I don't know about you, but I find these numbers extremely troubling. It really is a crisis of truth, and that crisis has consequences. Look at society. Evil is called good. Good called evil. People with biblical beliefs are called bigots. Or worse, they're canceled. But there is hope. The Bible promises the truth will set us free. And that's why Point of View is relentless in our commitment to the ultimate source of moral truth, God's Word.

[00:44:04] At Point of View, we know that God's truth is eternal. And if we stand together, we can help more Americans apply His truth in their daily life. Help Americans find truth again by giving at pointofview.net. Or call 1-800-347-5151. That's pointofview.net and 800-347-5151.

[00:44:32] Point of View will continue after this. Across America, live. This is Point of View. And now, Liberty McCartney.

[00:45:01] Welcome back to the Point of View Roundtable. It's going to be a great second hour. We've got John from the American Principles Project, Alyssa from Illinois Family Institute. And you know them both well. They are frequent co-hosts on the Roundtable. And, John, Alyssa, I'm happy to have you here today. So happy to be back, Liberty. Thanks for having us. So we have a lot of things to discuss, as usual. We'll try to get to them all.

[00:45:25] But I'm just excited to continue digging in to kind of a theme that really emerged in the first hour, which was principles. And how do we apply that? We talked a lot about politics in the first hour. And we might get into that a little bit here in the second hour, too. But we also have a strong family theme and family and faith running in the second hour, which I love. So I do want to direct your attention to pointofview.net, where there is an article you can read from the Daily Wire.

[00:45:51] And the title is this, Actually, Wives on Both Sides of the Ideological Divide Are Happy. This is from Maria Baer and Brad Wilcox, both of the Institute for Family Studies. I'm so thankful for them because we see a lot of headlines today. We see a lot of panic on social media, people kind of wringing their hands over gender wars, the growing ideological gap between young men and women. And don't want to downplay those issues.

[00:46:20] But you have seen people really, you know, wax panicky, so to speak, about what's happening to conservative women. And what about the trad wife movement? And, of course, there are some very loud influencers in the manosphere who say a lot of really dumb and misogynist things. And I do want to address that in a future situation on pointofview. But just to kind of say, hey, what about in the real world?

[00:46:49] What about in normieland, as they call it here in the article? And when you look at normieland and you get offline where all the people are fighting and arguing about all of these ideological differences, Alyssa, you start to see that people who are married are actually happy and they're doing okay. And this is not just conservatives, but it includes conservatives and liberals. And so I just thought that was really fascinating. What are your thoughts on this?

[00:47:18] Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that the key is getting offline. Social media, in my opinion, on both sides of the spectrum, is designed in a way to keep you angry, to keep you upset so that you keep staying tuned, you keep clicking, you keep scrolling, you keep wanting to know more information. But honestly, when you get offline and you look at the marriages around you, even if a couple may be more liberal or may be more conservative than you,

[00:47:47] that the marriages that are happiest are the ones in which they share values. So that was the biggest finding that Wilcox and his co-author found, was that it had nothing to do necessarily with what political aisle you're on when it comes to having a happy and healthy marriage. It has everything to do with whether or not you and your spouse are on the same page. And ultimately, marriage thrives that way.

[00:48:15] Because as long as you and your spouse are on the same page, the ability for other people to really meddle in your marriage or try to break you guys apart in some way is really not going to happen. And the finding also showed that married people are happier on a wide spectrum, men and women alike. That this idea that marriage is somehow oppressive for either side, or especially women,

[00:48:42] oppressive of women and the Treadwise movement trying to get back to when women were in the 1950s. I have huge issues with the Treadwise movement. And this idea that that's the only way to have a happy marriage is just not true. And I thought the article did a great job of showing that. Yeah, yeah, great point. And so, yes, let's just mention some of that research that you alluded to a little bit. So this study, which was done by the IFS in partnership with Wheatley Institute,

[00:49:10] found that the happiest women in America are married mothers, and all women with or without children were more likely to report being very happy than their unmarried partners. And for men, husbands are almost twice as likely to say that they are very happy with their lives as unmarried men, and fatherhood boosts happiness as well. John, we've talked about this on the No Eye podcast and here at Point of View. This messaging is important not to idolize marriage or anything like that,

[00:49:38] but because the anti-marriage message is so strong, especially toward young people from both the right and the left, from those kind of chronically online men and women that we were talking about, who are saying that marriage is a trap for either men or women. But the research just doesn't show that, does it? No, exactly right. And, I mean, really, I think it's a fair question just to go, okay,

[00:50:06] why on earth would anyone be promoting that kind of message that marriage is a terrible thing for, especially young people, right? We talked about this a little bit last time, getting married young or just getting married at all, really. But really, I just want to know why people are actually listening to this in the first place. And I think it kind of just comes down to people really like drama. Like, even I like drama. Right.

[00:50:33] And it's like this is just not something anyone really grows up hearing, that marriage is a terrible thing. I mean, goodness, if you grew up in a strong family, just imagine having these loving parents who are married, and they've got a really healthy marriage, and then they just out of the blue go, oh, yeah, marriage is terrible. Don't get married. That just seems really weird. Like, I'm not going to take you seriously if you're living a contradiction is what I'm trying to say. And so I don't know if people are just listening to these messages

[00:51:02] because they think it's, like, cool and hip these days or if they're genuinely believing them. But the article includes, you know, Dr. Wilcox is encountering his Gen Z students who do in fact believe that marriage is bad for men and that women deserve to be subordinated in any sense of the term, you know, not just, like, let's say, the biblical sense of the term,

[00:51:27] but, you know, beyond that of, like, losing the right to vote and all that stuff. I know there's a lot of hot takes out there about that. But, yeah, I mean, that's my initial thought is I'm, like, it's so telling that it's young men who are listening to this social advice because I just think everyone just gets so hung up on, you know, whatever the heck is new these things. I don't know.

[00:51:57] Yeah, those are good points, John. You know, in the first hour, Richard Lim said, like, we need to make moral goodness good again and say that that's okay because everybody's into the morally gray superhero and things like that. And I think that's kind of true sometimes with regard to entertainment and what we value. And it's like, hey, stability is cool, guys. It's okay to be in a happy marriage and a happy family and have stability.

[00:52:25] But I think you make a good point, too, that this does need to be modeled because, unfortunately, like for maybe the generations that we were raised in, divorce was more common. Fewer divorces are happening now. But if people didn't have that modeled, didn't have a healthy marriage modeled, then they are going to be looking for answers. Or even if they did, but nobody really ever explained why,

[00:52:50] and then everybody was raised online and is seeing the clips across social media and they're hearing somebody kind of give them a worldview when before there was just a vacuum because they never had a worldview given to them. I could see how people might fall for some of these lies that you mentioned, John, and that's super important to combat. But I think one of the best things we can do is just model a biblical lifestyle

[00:53:17] and those of us who are married to model a happy marriage and what a good, normal, stable family looks like. Let's continue to talk about this and other issues when we get back. This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:53:45] You know, over the last month, we've been talking about China. And when talking about China, we usually talk about its strengths and technological developments. But there's another side to intelligence gathering illustrated by a speech given by Herbert Meyer, who served as a special assistant to the director of central intelligence. He explained that from the end of World War II until 1982, every president's objective was to not lose the Cold War. When President Ronald Reagan came into office, he wanted to change that mindset. He switched from playing defense to playing offense.

[00:54:15] So Reagan's director of central intelligence, William Casey, asked the CIA's Soviet division two obvious questions. Where is the Soviet Union weak and where is it most vulnerable? The surprising answer they received was, we don't know. No one has ever asked that before. Over the years, the CIA and other intelligence gathering agencies were able to gather lots of information about Soviet strengths, infantry divisions, nuclear missiles, tanks, submarines, but never collected information on Soviet weaknesses.

[00:54:46] Under Casey's leadership, they refocused collection efforts and found all sorts of Soviet vulnerabilities. President Reagan used these weaknesses and vulnerabilities to put more pressure on the Kremlin. Eight years later, the Berlin Wall came down, and two years after that, the Soviet Union ceased to exist. You know, there's a lesson to be learned here. Sometimes the important information is out there, but never collected because it doesn't seem relevant to the intelligence gathering mindset the president or the bureaucracy might have. Intelligence work is like science.

[00:55:15] You don't collect random information and hope that something will pop up. You need an informed view of the world and know what you want to accomplish. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view. Go deeper on topics like you just heard by visiting pointofview.net. That's pointofview.net. You're listening to Point of View,

[00:55:44] your listener-supported source for truth. Okay, let's keep talking about this article from Daily Wire for a moment. Alyssa, you said a minute ago that you have big problems with the trad wife movement. I do as well, and I do want to just be very clear towards something that John alluded to, which, unfortunately, there are influencers, I guess you could say, online that are really in the far right corners of the manosphere.

[00:56:13] and talking about this in what I would call a biblical disguise. It's not actually biblical, but trying to make it biblical. That's very misogynistic, very anti-woman, arguing that we should repeal the 19th Amendment. And I wanted to devote a whole segment on Point of View in a future show to just debunking all of that, and that's the plan. But one of the things that I thought was interesting, that, again, this just kind of gets into the real world

[00:56:42] normalization of just happy couples, was that partnership was really a theme. That when spouses have high, clear expectations of intention and involvement in family life from each other, then they tend to build successful relationships. That's from the findings. So they acknowledge that this might be from kind of a feminist argument on the left or religious reasons on the right. And other research has shown

[00:57:08] that fathers who are really involved in their faith tend to be more involved with their family. So I think whatever you want to label it, what you see there is an attitude of a partnership and mutual service where you're working as a team rather than one side or the other trying to say, I'm better or really subjugate another. But Alyssa, what did you think of that? Yeah, I think that's spot on.

[00:57:36] And also I think the, again, I don't want to go into too much depth with my issues with the trad wife movement, as you've noted. But I do think one of the issues that it does maybe unintentionally do is it relegates women, in my opinion, back to an aesthetic of dressing up, looking pretty, and that's kind of your main role is to look nice and to bake bread

[00:58:06] and take care of chickens and take care of the kids and your husband doesn't have to do any of that. And I think, you know, as someone who is married and as you've probably just heard, as someone who has a child, it doesn't necessarily work when one person takes the heat on every single thing. Now, do I take on more of the domestic labor than my husband does? Yes, because he's out working and providing for us

[00:58:35] and being the main breadwinner. However, that does not mean that he, as you know, because he's a man, he doesn't need to spend time with his daughter when he comes home, if that makes sense. So I think there's a lot of issues with that. And like you've noted, it's the marriages that the husband and the wife are on the same page, whether that might be a feminist way of doing things or whether that may be ultra conservative. As long as you as a couple are on the same page,

[00:59:04] that is ultimately what matters when your expectations are being clearly stated and agreed upon. Yes, absolutely. And I definitely love your child's debut on Point of View. Welcome to the Roundtable. And so we love that. We love supporting families. And I think, Alyssa, you made such good points there that, yeah, you got to be a team. And so that really is the secret sauce, as they say, to a good marriage. And so if you want to look at some of that data or maybe share it with somebody

[00:59:33] who has some, you know, influences that they're listening to that are not healthy and you want to point them to what the research actually says versus what the TikTok reel or the podcast that they were listening to said, then point them to this article, which you can find at pointofview.net. John, I do want to highlight that you have an op-ed out today in the federal list and I really appreciate this. We can, you can find this link at pointofview.net as well as a fact sheet

[01:00:02] that John has helped put together. So we know that Planned Parenthood has historically been involved in eugenics, in pushing abortion on women, planting themselves in vulnerable communities where women are going to try to turn to for help and then that's how they get them into the abortion industry. So there have been, we could go on and on about everything that we know about Planned Parenthood but what they've really been doing lately

[01:00:31] is pushing themselves into this transgender issue targeting kids and John, you've laid out everything that's happening and all the evidence in your op-ed and in this fact sheet so tell us about that. Sure, yeah. I like the way I phrased it which is Planned Parenthood is not merely big abortion. It's this nemesis to the American family and it's, it continues to rise every single day and really the purpose

[01:01:01] behind all this is is to highlight that Planned Parenthood right now there was a defunding provision in the one big beautiful bill instituted last year on Independence Day which was to prohibit federal dollars from going towards Planned Parenthood and that provision is set to expire this Independence Day. And that's, yeah, keep going John, no, keep going. Sure, so Republicans are, you know, still have yet

[01:01:31] to pass reconciliation 2.0 and they dropped the defunding provision for Planned Parenthood or really just big abortion quite a while ago to, gosh, basically every social conservative's chagrin. And so I compiled this with the American College of Pediatricians. I wrote this op-ed because we're mad. We're not too happy about this and we're confused too. We're like,

[01:02:01] you have, we have a Republican majority in Congress and all you need is a simple majority vote that's just one more than half to pass the reconciliation bill. and we have those numbers in Congress. We could very easily pass the defunding provision to defund big abortion and importantly in defunding big abortion you would also defund this major player in the transgender industrial complex. So

[01:02:30] just to highlight a couple of things because this is shocking. So this is from a report that the American Principles Project put out last year and there was a count 80% of Planned Parenthood clinics offer some form of sex rejecting procedures. That could be hormones, puberty blockers. Some locations have even reported providing surgeries here and there but they're kind of obscure. It's hard to find those precise locations

[01:03:00] but you see that on the internet sometimes that they might actually be providing the surgeries themselves. Now only 70% of their clinics however perform abortions. More of these clinics are offering things like hormones and puberty blockers and these other things to try and get people to change their sex. More are doing that than they are performing abortions. And yet we call this thing, we call this parasite big abortion. Something's a little off there you might say

[01:03:29] but really it's just no one knows that. And then let's add more fuel to the fire. Let's keep going. We're over here we have 26 states that have passed age verification measures for pornography websites to ensure that children do not view pornography for obvious reasons. We all know that pornography is just the bane of everyone's existence. Planned Parenthood what are they doing? Instead of trying to get children away from pornography they're actually just ushering them into it.

[01:04:00] There's an Instagram post that I saw from Planned Parenthood that said did you masturbate today? And then it went through all the benefits of masturbating. I'm sorry no. No. Just no. That's disgusting. They want your kids addicted to sex and pornography. That's what they care about. And they're also the leading provider in sex education which you might think is outside the issue of transgenderism and stuff like that. But really it is

[01:04:31] well within that field. Because the sex education which they're providing to children as young as three, they're creating curriculum for children as young as three, this is to get them to question their sex. It's things like hey by the way you might be trapped in the wrong body. What do you think the three-year-old is going to do after he hears that? He's going to go oh shoot am I trapped in the wrong body? And who's waiting there with open arms to transition Planned Parenthood? So now you have this cycle. And anyway so I'll stop there. Those are like really the most important things

[01:05:01] I think. They're also pushing to have trans identifying men participate in women's sports. It's like I said they're a nemesis to the American family. There's not a single issue that you can point to that they support that's pro-family. Yeah, you're so right. It really is anti-family. It really should be called anti-parenthood because of the way that they are training kids to subvert their parents authority and

[01:05:30] groom them to be honest. So yeah, like you said the sex education is actually a huge part of it because how we teach kids about sex, about their own sex, about marriage relations whenever they grow up is super important. If we don't start teaching them a biblical worldview on those issues, you will have a secular government, you will have Planned Parenthood partnering with local schools teaching them all of the wrong things so that they can get their

[01:06:00] business later on. We know they did this with abortion. That's why they would specifically target vulnerable communities so that they could get paid for their abortions later. Now they're doing that with the transgender movement. So let's talk about this a little bit more after this short break. Have you ever met a child you knew would do great things? They displayed remarkable imagination, understanding, and a zest for learning. Now imagine someone takes that child and instead of fostering their potential with a real education, they feed them

[01:06:29] nothing but lies. You know, that scenario isn't so far from reality. From a young age, Americans are fed a consistent stream of distorted facts from the secular indoctrination they receive in many public schools, to the biases presented as fact in many colleges and universities, to the barrage of misinformation from the mainstream media and the lack of moral grounding in our society. It's not that Americans aren't capable of understanding the truth, it's that they aren't exposed

[01:06:59] to it enough. You can expose more Americans to the truth when you give to Point of View where listeners receive facts, perspective, and biblical truth they don't get from society. As long as we have truth, we have hope. Give today at pointofview.net or call 1-800-347-5151 pointofview.net and 1-800-347-5151

[01:07:31] Point of View will continue after this. You are listening to Point of View. The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now, here again, is Liberty McCarter. Okay, Melissa, I do want to get your take on everything that

[01:08:01] we've discussed with regard to John's op-ed. You can read it at pointofview.net and what we know is that, unfortunately, a Republican-led Congress is about to give Planned Parenthood federal taxpayer money again. And John has just been taking us through how really the gender transition targeted toward kids is their new MO. Only 70% of Planned Parenthood locations currently provide abortion.

[01:08:31] And I think a large reason for this is, as we talked about yesterday on Point of View, how ubiquitous abortion pills are. So, with so many people using abortion pills now to perform abortions or to get an abortion, then you don't have as much of a need for brick-and-mortar facilities. And in many pro-life states, those have been shut down anyways, which is good. But now, Planned Parenthood's

[01:09:00] not going quietly into the night. 80% are now conducting sex change procedures. And John, you write, and you mentioned this a minute ago, that with regard to the sex education programs, they are actually targeting children as young as age three. So, before I come to you, Alyssa, I do want to remind listeners that a while back, I did an interview on Point of View with Elizabeth Urbanowicz. Her book, if you Google the title, it'll pop right up, Helping Your Kids Know God's

[01:09:29] Good Design. That's Helping Your Kids Know God's Good Design, 40 Questions and Answers on Sexuality and Gender. A great resource for Christian parents. And she recommends starting having these conversations with kids at age four. And this is evidence for why she's not crazy for saying that. Maybe it needs to be age three because Planned Parenthood is starting at age three. And she talks about in age appropriate ways how you can build a biblical worldview with your children

[01:09:59] on issues regarding sex and gender and relationships starting at a young age because they're going to get the secular message at a young age from media, from TV, from school, anywhere in our culture today. But Alyssa, I'd love to have your response to this issue too. Yeah, I don't think it's a coincidence that Planned Parenthood puts together curriculum to target three-year-olds. As someone who, you know, I'm a mom not to a three-year-old but I have

[01:10:28] mom friends that have three-year-olds, that age range, that zero to five, their brains are so friends-like. And if you can get them to question foundational realities, like, my body is good. If you can get them to question that when they're three, when they're four, when they're five, you can really plant a seed of evil, of doubt, of confusion in their minds that can last a lifetime. And we've seen this in the public school system. And we see this in other issues too.

[01:10:58] It's not just transgenderism. We see this in the lie of the propaganda that, you know, a baby inside the womb doesn't have the same personhood rights. You see people prop up this talking point with as much gusto as they can, when you get down to it, they were taught this from a young age, that, oh, it's just what we were taught in school, that it's not really a baby, it's just a clump of cells. And I think parents need to have a huge wake-up call that if

[01:11:28] your child is in an institution, a public school, any kind of school, where their curriculum includes talking to young kids about inappropriate sexuality questions, you need to pull them out of that pool. Especially with public school parents, I don't care if it's free. Your child's health, their development, their safety, their discipleship in the Lord is more important than you getting freedom from them for a few hours when they go to school, or you

[01:11:57] saving a lot of money by sending them to a public school. We really, as parents, need to think about the future in a bigger way when it comes to protecting our kids. If we just take the easy way out, in a lot of things, entrusting our kids to educators that really don't have the best interests of our child at heart, but hey, it's free, or hey, it's only five minutes away, they can ride the bus, I get freedom for a few hours, it's great. If we really think that way as parents, instead of taking the charge that

[01:12:27] God has given us, that we are our child's primary educator, that we are charged to steward our children's hearts, their souls, to disciple them, if we don't take that seriously, someone else will. And Planned Parenthood has taken that really seriously, and they're the parent's role, from my opinion. Oh my gosh, Alyssa, you are so right, and I'm so glad that you brought that point up, because yes, I think this is a God thing, I was literally thinking about this right before the show started,

[01:12:56] just again how as parents, we are our children's primary educators, that is a responsibility that was given to us, the Bible says to teach your children about the Lord as you're walking, as you're sitting down, as you're going to sleep, and what we've done, and Christians have done this, we've separated education about God from education about everything else, but if God created the world and the universe, then the whole world belongs to

[01:13:26] God, and so education is a godly endeavor, and every subject that must be infused with the biblical worldview because Sunday school or a couple hours at church is not enough, and I know families who are doing so much work to undo and combat the secular worldview that their kids get at public school at home, but that's the thing, you really do have to work

[01:13:56] to undo a lot of that worldview, and if you don't, then as Alyssa was explaining, kids are going to have that as their foundational assumption. So, you know, I talk about this a lot with regard to homeschooling or Christian schools or other options, but I think the first step for parents is to just reframe the way we think. We have adopted a secular notion that really the underlying assumption is that the child belongs to the state, and therefore it is the state's responsibility

[01:14:25] to educate the child, and that's why people will try to sue their local school district if their child doesn't know how to read when they graduate, and we've covered some stories on that, but it's the parents' responsibility. So if you realize, oh, God gave me the responsibility not just to disciple my children, but to educate them because that's part of that reframes the whole approach, because even if you don't actually homeschool, and homeschooling is way more doable for families in different kinds

[01:14:55] of situations that you may think, and we need to talk about that in the future a little bit more, but even if you don't actually do that, it'll reframe the way you think so that you aren't saying, well, I'm just giving my child to a school whose responsibility it is to educate them, say, no, it's my responsibility, so I may choose a partner to help educate my child, but I'm going to be very selective in who that partner is, who I am partnering with to help me educate my child, and yeah, you've got to

[01:15:24] be selective, you've got to look into this, and like we talked about in the first hour in California, a lot of people are responding to policies where certain states, they don't even necessarily inform the parents that they're going to be talking about some of these things, so you have to be proactive as the parent and not act surprised when secular society does what a secular society does, they're not going to teach your kid biblical values, but John, back to just the federal funding aspect of this, how do we

[01:15:54] fight this? What are the steps we need to take? You've laid out the education for us, again, people can find this article that you've written in the fact sheet at pointofview.net, but we're a month out from Planned Parenthood getting federal dollars again. Yeah, it's such an excellent question, and to be completely honest, we're asking ourselves the same thing, all of us in D.C., we're like, okay, what the heck do we do now? And really, it's just, you amplify the news out there, you call attention to what is going on, to the evil that's going on,

[01:16:24] you write your congressional members, you don't stay quiet. We can't be passive about this, because if we're passive, certainly nothing's going to happen if you're passive. If you're active, maybe something's not going to happen, but also maybe something will, and that's just better odds than nothing, than absolutely nothing happening. Yeah. But, yes, that's what I would say there. Yeah, absolutely. Well, again, check this out. This is, John has written

[01:16:53] this op-ed, and put together a fact sheet, biological integrity integrating mind and body. The fact sheet is Planned Parenthood, one of America's largest providers of sex rejecting procedures and services. As John noted, we typically call them big abortion, and for a long time they were, and they still definitely are involved in that, but they are moving toward really getting involved in providing gender

[01:17:22] transition services, quote-unquote, to children. So parents need to be aware, conservatives, pro-lifers, everybody needs to be aware, and this is something that I would say, maybe we can do an action alert on this, but definitely contact your representatives in Congress because that's something we talked about in the first hour a little bit as well, is not capitulating on the pro-life issue. Sometimes, yes, whenever we don't have ideal options in regards to our elected officials, we do have to be

[01:17:52] pragmatic, but that doesn't mean that we give up our principles. And so don't just say, okay, well, it seems like the Republican Party's kind of moving away from the pro-life issue, or, oh, you know, who I want to vote for, they're never going to consider the pro-life issue. No, keep talking about it. more Americans, I think, are open to being pro-life or do have pro-life sensibilities. But as John said, sometimes they've never heard the argument laid out. We need to be talking about it. We need to be talking about this gender transition issue at Planned Cernhood as well.

[01:18:22] So check out the resources at pointofview.net. We'll come back in just a few minutes. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Okay, as always, the hour's gone too fast, but we have a few more minutes. And so many of the

[01:18:51] topics that we have discussed on the roundtable today, both in the first hour and in this hour, really come down to culture. If we want better political leaders, if we don't want to have to worry so much about sending our kids to the local public school because we know they're going to get just totally opposite teaching from the Bible, if we want to solve all of these problems, at the core, it starts at homes.

[01:19:20] It starts with what people believe. It starts with a biblical worldview. So one of the things we've discussed many times on Point of View on the roundtable is whether or not there are rumblings of a revival. Gen Z is, we can see statistics that they are purchasing Bibles and reading Bibles at higher rates. You've seen a spike in interest in church. So whether or not that's going to be sustained over the long haul remains to be seen. But I think this is why this is a super important

[01:19:50] topic. It's our last article posted at Pointofview.net, The Commodification of Christianity by Freya India. She does a lot of writing on digital technology, how it's affected Gen Z, and she has a book that was just published called Girls. So she acknowledges that she's new to Christianity. In fact, I'm not even sure if she is a Christian yet, but she said she's curious about it, so praying that she will get there. But she has so many good takes, though, just as somebody

[01:20:19] who's kind of approaching this with fresh eyes. And so I'm like, oh my gosh, Christians need to be writing this kind of thing because this is how important it is. Basically, the question I want to ask is, are we using the devil's tools to use the Lord's work? And so she says that she notices among her Gen Z peers the interest in faith and Christianity in particular, and she said learning about it feels easier than ever. The Bible is bite-sized. You just need to subscribe, download, play, follow the

[01:20:49] social media content creator, subscribe to this app. Talks about all these different prayer apps and Bible apps that just give you a little verse or help you pray, or there are even apps that gamify these practices of prayer and Bible reading. And she says that really what people are trying to do is reach the young, reach the kids where they are, right? But she says that lately it feels like Christianity is just another thing to do on her phone

[01:21:19] and thinks that this is the exact wrong way to approach evangelizing Gen Z Christians. Because if you are new to Christianity, you have not built those habits yourself. And if you just shove a screen in a young adult's face and say, here, learn the Bible, here's how to be a Christian, they're just having another thing to do on their screen. They're not actually developing that deep personal connection. So anyways, I was like, wow, this is so important to talk about.

[01:21:49] Alyssa, I'd love to get your thoughts on it. Yeah, you know, I had never really thought about a lot of the points that she was writing on until I read her work. And it kind of struck me as being very accurate that so much of Christianity has become commodified in the subscription models. And oh, I even remember I used to have the ESV app on my phone. And I went to look at devotionals, but it wanted me to subscribe for a

[01:22:18] certain amount of money each month to be able to access these devotionals. And I'm thinking to myself, no, I'm not going to pay to read the Bible. It just struck me as weird. And you know, even some conservative commentators, political commentators will have ads for the Hallow app so that you can get closer to God and you can pray. And I'm just thinking to myself, why do I need an app subscription to teach me how to pray when Jesus in the Bible,

[01:22:48] in answer to his disciples' question, teach us how to pray, says, pray like this. And he gives us a model of how we should pray. So why should I not go to the Bible and why should I pay someone else? Why should I pay other religions even on the Hallow app to teach me how to pray when my Lord and Savior has already told me in his word? So I think the biggest danger with all of this technology is not that it's bad in and of itself. I don't think it's wrong for

[01:23:18] a pastor to have a podcast or to have, you know, an online ministry. I think that's just the day and age in which we're living where we don't want to give ground to the evil one. And if, you know, evil is occupying online spaces, Christians, we should try to occupy online spaces too to try to bridge the gap and push back the darkness. But all of those resources are never and should never be in place of getting involved and becoming a member of a local Bible-believing church,

[01:23:48] sitting under the direct preaching of God's word every Sunday, of getting involved in your local body, of serving, of getting involved in small groups, being online and listening to a podcast will never replace that. And I think that's the message that my generation needs to hear is get off your phone. Even if you're listening to a great podcast, please get off your phone and go plug in to a local church. Yeah, absolutely. So if you have a church event that's conflicting with the live broadcast right now, please turn off the radio and go to

[01:24:18] church. That's the message we want to leave you with. But John, let me get your take too, because Freya India ends by saying, really, if you want to reach a generation that's been raised online and on screens, they're hungry for something different. So maybe we should lean into that because guess what? Christianity is inherently different. And yet we're trying to, it seems like a lot of people are just trying to blend it with what's already in the world. But what are your thoughts on this? Well,

[01:24:47] I was reminded of that last article that we all talked about a couple of months ago about how people attending church, young people especially, they find the evangelization more compelling when they are heard or listened to versus when they listen to someone else. And Alyssa said something really profound, which was, well, look, hate to break it to you, but God's word is really important. And so if you don't really have an interest in listening to

[01:25:17] God's word and all you want to do is be heard, I'm so sorry, I don't mean to really harp on these people, but that's a good point. If you aren't willing to listen to God's word and you only want to be heard, you're kind of doing it wrong. I'm just saying that's not what faith is about. Faith isn't about you getting what you want or you getting heard. It's not really about that. So here's the connection I saw with this article is that the reason you see these

[01:25:46] apps is because that's what works for the Gen Zers of the world, so people like me, I guess, is we're so chronically online, we're constantly on our phones, constantly on apps, and it's an interesting phenomenon because now the church is, Christianity, they're trying to cater to those of us who are constantly online, constantly on our phones and stuff. But they're trying to cater to an audience

[01:26:15] that wants the wrong payoff, I guess. They're looking for, maybe they are looking for God's word and everything, but they're not willing to put in the legwork, and I feel like the Christian churches are trying to meet people where they're at, but it's just maybe they're going a bit too far. You need to maybe tease them a little bit. It's like, look, this is what you can get on your phone, but this is what you can get if you go

[01:26:45] to church. I don't think that second part is really there. I don't use the apps because I just don't really feel like I need to. I read the Bible every day, and believe it or not, it's a physical copy. Wow, those exist. Then I go to church every Sunday, and every so often I might go to daily mass or something throughout the week if I can make it. That's what I need. To me, it does feel like the phone is just a half measure. It's important to

[01:27:14] recognize that half measures aren't in themselves bad, but they need to acknowledge that they are half measures. Maybe the apps just aren't acknowledging that right now. That's why, as she includes in the article, sometimes she just has a thought, oh, I could go to church, but look, I have my phone, and that's not what we is round table. But I thank you for being with us and listening to the round table. Yes, let's use the tools we have to reach people, but let's

[01:27:44] encourage them to dig into the word for themselves, to get out there and go to church and encounter God. But you can listen to Point of View again tomorrow on the Weekend Edition. We'll be right here. It was not that long ago that censorship appeared to be almost inevitable. Free speech was being attacked and strangled in many places. And some of us wondered if this was the end. But now many feel a new sense of hope, a chance for a fresh dawn.

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