Point of View July 30, 2026: The Round Table

[00:00:04] Across America, live, this is Point of View. And now, Liberty McCarty. Thanks for joining me on Point of View today. Excited to host a Next Generation Round Table.

[00:00:25] But before we get into some of those topics that we're going to discuss and have some co-hosts around the table or the virtual table, as many will be calling in, I did want to start with some news of the day. Now, you may have seen some headlines about what's going on in Capitol Hill, specifically with the congressional hearings with Dr. Anthony Fauci. As you will remember, during the COVID pandemic, he was head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

[00:00:51] And many people are pretty upset because there is an investigation going on. And what they've discovered by his diaries been made public. So have many other documents. The diary in particular is embarrassing and enlightening. But really, what people are realizing is that we were lied to.

[00:01:14] And of course, as a listener of Point of View, I don't think that's any surprise to you that there were many things that government officials were told during that told the American people during the pandemic that just were not true.

[00:01:28] And the thing is, and this is why I think it's important to bring up and kind of kick off our conversation today, is that the advice and the supposed expertise of figures mainly like Dr. Fauci really did affect and determine many policies that have had long lasting effects on the lives of American children who were out of school.

[00:01:53] Many of them for over a whole school year kept home on the advice of Dr. Anthony Fauci and many other constitutional abuses, people getting arrested for not complying. We know that there were so many religious liberty abuses during the pandemic and in different states. Of course, I was in Texas and so blessed to not have to go through most of that craziness. But it was a very confusing time.

[00:02:21] There was a pandemic, this new sickness. Nobody knew very much about it. But yet people who were asking questions or maybe positing different theories of where it originated were quieted or shut down. You know that it happened on social media. But what we're finding out now and what many people have suspected for a long time is that there was actually a conspiracy, if you will, to really keep a lot of those questions quiet.

[00:02:51] Even among scientists, there was not a consensus, for instance, about whether or not the COVID-19 originated in a wet market or in a Wuhan lab leak. And in fact, when a paper came out in 2020 pushing the narrative that it was, in fact, originated from a wet market, that a human was infected from an animal, there was doubts even at that time among scientists about whether or not it may have actually leaked from the lab.

[00:03:19] But people who brought that up were called racist and in many cases even kicked off of social media. So anyways, people, you know, I will say that the hearings were kind of a spectacle. That is what a lot of people have argued in order to make Fauci squirm. And he did. We did not really get any answers from him because of a very specific tactic that he decided to maintain throughout the entire hearing. And so I'm going to play a couple of clips for you.

[00:03:48] Let's start with clip one that will give you an idea of how it went yesterday. What day of the week is it today? On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution. What color tie are you wearing? On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution. What color is the carpet in front of you?

[00:04:19] On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment. OK, so he pled the fifth and he pled the fifth for the entire hearing. And it's funny to laugh about it now a little bit, but it really isn't funny because, again, lives were disrupted.

[00:04:46] And a point that I want to make, this was that was Senator Josh Hawley asking him those questions, by the way. There were some real questions asked and I'll get to some of those in just a minute. But because we have his private personal diaries, we know that he himself had doubts and he would push public narratives that he either knew were not true or that he himself did not believe. So there was a great article in The Wall Street Journal this morning.

[00:05:12] I do have kind of a summary of the hearings from National Review posted at pointofview.net if you want to read that for yourself. But this is from James Meigs in The Wall Street Journal, a COVID conspiracy in plain sight. This is from this morning. And really, I mean, there were people, of course, that were suspicious from the beginning,

[00:05:34] that knew that they were being controlled in many, especially in particular states, and that, you know, were calling COVID a conspiracy from the beginning. But the reality is there were a lot of people who truly suffered. There are people who suffered from the sickness, who suffered loss of life. There are people who suffered loss of rights. It was a confusing time. And I really I argued then and I argue now, even in retrospect, we really need to give each other a lot of grace,

[00:05:59] because I think everybody, at least the American people, were trying to do their best with the information they had at the time. And some people decided to believe that government officials were acting with the same kind of integrity and search for the truth. But this has done incalculable damage, to use the words from The Wall Street Journal, to the American Public's Trust in both government and scientific institutions. Badgering people to trust the science won't work anymore.

[00:06:29] And I think that's true. So there's one more clip. I think we have time to play it. I think it's only about 40 seconds long. This is a little more serious line of questioning here. Just a reminder of what many families went through at the time. So they went to the stadium. They sat alone, far from everybody else, just a mom, a dad, a few kids. They didn't feel they needed to wear masks because it was stupid.

[00:07:00] Because they were outside. They all live together. They're not near anybody. Dr. Fauci, do you know what happened to that mom and that family? That's a question. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution. They were dragged out of that stadium and arrested.

[00:07:28] So that was Senator Moreno, I believe, from Ohio, talking about just one example of something that happened across the nation. And as many writers have pointed out since then, definitely more people are comfortable pointing it out today. As an advisor. Fauci was really weighing in on things that were outside of his purview.

[00:07:57] He didn't need to be the one determining whether or not schools were going to open. And technically he didn't. But he was such a celebrity. And his personal diary proves that he knew this about himself. He was such a celebrity.

[00:08:15] He was such a celebrity.

[00:08:43] He was such a celebrity. He was such a celebrity.

[00:09:09] And he was such a celebrity. Congressman Adam Smith exposed the tactics used by those in the far left in a menacing intimidation campaign against him. This included his vandalized home, a fire set in his driveway, and demonstrators harassing him and his neighbors in an all-night demonstration. Also, one of his staff members was physically assaulted.

[00:09:36] Secretary Marco Rubio recently addressed the issue of left-wing violence not only in this country but in many other countries. He observed that the very idea that far-left terrorism could be a serious threat is treated as a right-wing fever dream or worse, as a dangerous fascist conspiracy. He also noted that the legacy press probably won't even cover his message on the resurgence of political terrorism. The fact that you're hearing about this for the first time illustrates that point in his message.

[00:10:03] Unfortunately, as he noted, this kind of organized violence is often dismissed as partisan fiction. I noticed this when Treasury Secretary Scott Bessett explained to the media that he was the subject of an assassination attempt hours after being sworn into office. He knew they might want to report it as fiction. That is why he pointed the media to the recent sentencing of the man who wanted to assassinate him. In the past, I've talked about the rise of what has been called the assassination culture,

[00:10:30] threats against the president, his administration, and even Supreme Court justices illustrate the danger. Unfortunately, the media and many politicians choose to ignore it. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my Point of View. Go deeper on topics like you just heard by visiting pointofview.net. That's pointofview.net.

[00:11:00] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Welcome back. I am joined now by Josh Barnes, who is a pastor and host of the popular YouTube channel, The Bible Explained, and Ethan Watson, who is the vice president of ASU's Federalist Society and Republican Law Association. Both regulars here on the roundtable, and Ethan, Josh, glad to have you on today. Good to be here. Thanks so much for having me.

[00:11:27] So I have a lot that I want to discuss with both of y'all in this hour, so we'll try to squeeze in as much as we can. But I did, before we move on to something else, want to just get your comments on the Fauci hearings. I just played a couple of clips in the first segment and was kind of giving the overview. But let's play clip one just one more time to, again, illustrate just how far this non-answering went. What day of the week is it today?

[00:11:58] On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution. What color tie are you wearing? On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution. What color is the carpet in front of you? On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment.

[00:12:27] So, Ethan, let me come to you. I was just talking about just the drastic effect that the pandemic had on so many aspects of American life, including developmentally and academically with Gen Z and younger Americans. And the fallout is still being felt today. We know now because of all kinds of documents that have become public that there was there were conspiracies.

[00:12:52] There was information pushed as fact when even the, you know, so-called experts didn't actually agree on it. So before we move on to anything else, we'd love to get any comments that you have to make about the congressional hearings and the whole situation. Absolutely. I mean, I'm just eating this up. I've had a bone to pick with, you know, Dr. Fauci ever since I got into politics.

[00:13:12] My first op-ed I ever wrote was called Enough from the Experts, specifically about Anthony Fauci and the way he ruins the lives for years on end of young people and old people and everybody in this country. I mean, that was my senior year of high school, first couple of years of college for me, formative years. And, you know, that sting has not quite gone away from it yet. So I'm eating this up.

[00:13:35] I think it's wonderful for the country to see just what an egotistical dictator Fauci is and how he behaved during that pandemic. And it's really important for me that we get this all on the record that we were misled, we were manipulated, the medical establishment failed us because it's not hard to see this happening again. And I don't think people would stand for it in maybe 2030 or 2040, but my grandkids or my great-grandkids,

[00:14:03] we need to make sure that there's a record of what happened so that they can look this authoritarian moment when they experienced their own and realized, no, we need to take a stand and resist as much as possible and limit the powers of the so-called expert class. So I'm absolutely loving it. Dr. Fauci is in a tough spot, but he put everybody in a tough spot for a couple of years. And so I hope he gets what's coming to him good and hard. It's an important lesson, to be sure.

[00:14:32] And, Josh, you know, as I've been thinking, conservatives tend to have more skepticism, I think, just because of the recent history in our nation regarding institutions. But if there was any trust left among, you know, well-meaning people who really were sincerely trying to do what was best and follow the advice and to try to help control this, you know, crazy pandemic and no one really knew it was happening,

[00:15:00] all that remaining trust, I think, is eroded because of how we've seen that people who were in that position just lied to the American people for so long. But what are your thoughts? Yeah, absolutely. It's the lies that are the big thing that really gets to us. And I think it opened a lot of people's eyes to conspiracy theories. I think conspiracy theories were very much on the fringe of people believing those kinds of things.

[00:15:29] But then when we saw one develop right in front of our eyes and we realized, wow, this really was giant lies being told to the public and being pushed on us, it became like this big thing where now a lot of Christians now, generally speaking, are much more prone to believe conspiracy theories because we know some of them are true now, you know, that kind of thing, which is actually damaging for the Christian and for reasonable people because not all conspiracy theories are true just because some of them are.

[00:15:57] But this is clearly true. And I think I have to agree, of course, with Ethan. Ethan's spot on. But I think we all also recognize that there's something else that we want. We want justice. I think we're all a little satisfied with putting it on the record but also dissatisfied because of this pardon that Fauci has received. We know for a fact. I mean, we've seen undeniable evidence that he lied to the American people.

[00:16:26] He wrote it in his diary that he knew that it didn't come from the wet market. It came from a lab. And he also was, you know, funding these labs and all of those things. These are things that we know for a fact. He was lying to the American people. And it resulted in many, many deaths. And we want justice. This is not a wrong thing for Christians, by the way.

[00:16:49] Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount that the blessed are those who are hungering and thirsting for righteousness. And that should apply to our personal lives. We should hunger and thirst for righteousness in our own lives. But it's also not wrong for us to hunger and thirst for justice and righteousness in the lives of our government and our public officials and those who are lying to us. We should expect justice. And it might be a little bit too much to hope.

[00:17:16] I guess maybe I'm a little too optimistic because I know it's a long shot. But I'm really kind of hoping that the Congress will actually do something here and hold him in contempt because he doesn't have the right to claim or plead the Fifth Amendment since he's already been pardoned for the things they're asking him. So essentially it's equal to him not showing up to the meeting, which would be contempt of Congress.

[00:17:42] So they do have the right to put him in jail for, I think, up to 12 months, if I'm not mistaken. And I just think the Congress would be foolish to not do so. Yeah. You know, I think you're right. People – I mean, and part of it, I think, is that he is a symbol. I mean, he literally did lie. He literally did abuse the position of influence that he held.

[00:18:03] But at the same time, there was just so much that went wrong at the hands of – because of government officials and people in power. And we realized how much they can really control the daily life of the American people, especially if you are in a state that is not very friendly to freedom. And so we saw how easy and how quickly that can happen.

[00:18:28] So I think that he is a symbol not just of himself but of just kind of the general anger and frustration. And like you said, Josh, hunger for justice that so many people feel and they want that to be rectified. So we will see what happens. I think it would be even more satisfying if maybe he answered and just said – and this is what, of course, then he would be perjuring himself, I guess.

[00:18:54] But to say, you know, I was trying to control the panic or I was just trying to do what I thought would be most beneficial. And even though that would be wrong, it would say, hey, give us something. Like answer the questions. Give us some justification. Show some remorse for how people's rights ended up being abused based on the things that you recommended. But then he's definitely not giving us any of that. But we could keep talking about this for a long time, I'm sure.

[00:19:21] But I did want to introduce a topic because I'm actually – we're going to go to a break here in a couple minutes. So we may not really be able to get into the answers too much until after the break. But I'll set it up a little bit. But I want to take advantage of the opportunity to talk with both of you, Josh and Ethan, about the crisis that men face in our world today, really, in the United States, but in many places around the world. And so this is a podcast episode that I listen to. You can find it at pointofview.net.

[00:19:50] And it features Richard Reeves, who is the president of the American Institute for Boys and Men. He's the author of a 2022 book, Boys and Men. And I think it's very important because the title of the episode is What the Future is Female Has Meant for Men.

[00:20:08] And so I have an interesting perspective on this because as a woman, I am the beneficiary of many developments and a lot of kinds of progress for women in terms of professional opportunities and things like that. Like, so, you know, I'm interested in that selfishly. And yet I am the mother of two young boys and I see the crisis that men face.

[00:20:32] I see men falling behind in terms of earning college degrees, in struggling with work and meaning, struggling in school. Politically, a lot of young men seem to be homeless or drawn to extremes. And I worry about the fact that our culture can't even seem to talk about masculinity without putting the word toxic first. And so I really just want to kind of set that up. And then when we come back from the break, hand it over to you guys and really hear your perspectives on that. Josh, I think you're a millennial like me.

[00:21:01] And I know, Ethan, you kind of represent the Gen Z cohort for us. But what has this kind of messaging done to young men? And how can we recover the sense of meaning and purpose that young men need? So that's what I want to talk about next. I'm really looking forward to hearing your comments on that. We have to go to a short break, but we'll be right back after this.

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[00:22:50] Point of View will continue after this. You are listening to Point of View. The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now here again is Liberty McCarver. All right.

[00:23:17] So right before the break, I kind of set this up as a conversation about what the future is female has meant for men. And so, Josh, I'm really eager to get your perspective and Ethan's, but let's come to you first. How do you respond to this issue? Really, we're in a crisis of boys and men. And what do you think about that? Yeah, I think it's absolutely true.

[00:23:39] I think the podcast that you shared really points out some really important things that are going on. But if I were to summarize it all, I would say that it's really a problem of us being told not to lean into our natures. God created us with natures, right? Men are different than women.

[00:24:07] And the more we try to deny that, the more we come out with really weird problems in our society. You know, there's a reason why God calls things sin. It's because long term, they don't work. They might make you happy for a little bit, but they actually don't work. And one of the things that is certainly sinful is pretending that women are men or pretending that men are women. We should lean into their natures.

[00:24:35] I think one thing that was very interesting about the discussion is that they mentioned what's happening in schooling, where generally speaking, women are doing much, much, much better in schools. And boys are not meeting that standard at all, except in certain areas in math. But even there, they're not doing, generally speaking, they're not doing nearly as well as the girls are in all the other subjects,

[00:25:03] especially reading and literature and that kind of thing. And this concern, you know, how do you solve that? I think you solve it by leaning into boys and girls. We used to have in America girls' schools and boys' schools. We used to have, you know, the Boy Scouts and the Girl Scouts because we understood that boys and girls learn differently.

[00:25:27] They are different kinds of humans, and they are often able to be taught in different ways in a more effective way. And we have, I think, in a lot of school settings, we've kind of orchestrated our schools around a female version of learning, where it's not as interactive, it's not as visual, it's not as interesting to a boy.

[00:25:54] And then we say to the boys, you have attention deficit disorder, you know, and give them some medicine, rather than saying, well, maybe they're boys. Maybe they learn a little differently. So I think there's all kinds of problems that are included here, but it does result in a diminishing of the male, which is actually really, really important for society, for families, for all of those things. And if I were to summarize the solution, it's pretty simple. It's just lean into who you are.

[00:26:20] As God has made you a man, he's made you a woman, lean into that. Yeah, very well said, Josh. And it was interesting to me that Richard Reeves, who was featured in the podcast, said that whenever he was writing his book, all of his colleagues pressured him to leave out the part about biological differences, which, of course, we know are general, right? There's always going to be outliers and things like that. But even just acknowledging that fact that I think everybody intuitively knows,

[00:26:49] well, I don't know, everybody with common sense intuitively knows that, yeah, men and women are different. Even saying that has become taboo in so many, again, these kind of expert circles. And he put it in anyway because, yes, it is totally relevant to so many different things. But, Ethan, I'm curious to hear your thoughts, too.

[00:27:11] And did this kind of messaging, really what became anti-masculinity, anti-boy messaging in the last couple of decades at least, did you ever feel that, like in your schooling or being raised? And what was it like coming of age in that kind of environment? Yeah, you know, I certainly felt it in my schooling, especially at the college level, right? So I'm in law school. My law school has a women's lawyers association that has networking and mentorship and events like that.

[00:27:40] There's no men's lawyers association. I don't think it'd be well received if I tried to start one. In my undergrad, there were two separate clubs for women in business. And then, actually, my co-ed fraternity elected a woman on the basis that we need more female leadership in the school of business over my friend who was running. And so the point is not that it's bad for women to have their own spaces and their own professional organizations because, you know, they interact differently, as Joshua was saying, and they face different challenges at work than men do. No one's going to deny that.

[00:28:09] But there needs to be gendered spaces for men, too, if that's what we're going to do, right? We used to have Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts. Now we just have Girl Scouts and Scouts. We used to have, you know, I mean, you know, we have shared spaces and female spaces now. We don't have male spaces, female spaces, and shared spaces. And at best, that closes men off from some opportunities, right? Makes it a little harder. You know, we have a few less chances to get that job or make that connection, whatever. But at worst, it breeds resentment.

[00:28:38] And that's when you get these, like, Andrew Tate or, like, clavicular characters coming out where a lot of guys my age get a kick out of it because they're so countercultural. And, you know, it's not even that, you know, we believe in everything that they're saying. But it is a little bit refreshing, right, to see, like, someone challenging this sort of female hegemony. And that's why these guys are getting so popular and really leading a lot of younger guys down a bad path.

[00:29:04] But just like Joshua was saying, this is a problem not in a career context, really, at the end of the day. It's a problem because men really need women and women really need men, right? If we have untempered masculine urges, that's like the fatherless criminals in the inner city. If we have untempered feminine, like, compassion and sensitivity and that sort of maternal instinct, that's how you get, like, political correctness and wokeness and this sort of, you know, suicidal tolerance is what I call it. So you need to temper both instincts.

[00:29:33] And it's defining characteristics of humans that we come in two flavors, male and female. One can't survive without the other. And so I think we've put ourselves on the scale enough and it's time to just have gendered spaces for all is what I would say. Yeah, and that's important. And what's crazy is that, you know, again, on this kind of progressive side, you've got, you know, you can't have male-only spaces because that's sexist.

[00:30:00] But you really can't even have women-only spaces in a lot of contexts anymore because apparently you can have a gendered space if you're a male and you just decide to become a woman instead. And yet this is not helping men and women to integrate more, have better relationships. I mean, marriage rates are down. So, yeah, it's like, man, if only we would just acknowledge what is true, that men and women are different.

[00:30:25] And, Ethan, you said it so well, we need each other and that everybody could have, I think, healthier relationships. But you said something really important. And, Josh, I'd love to get your perspective, too, because this is something that does concern me. Just, you know, my sons are young now, but I see this kind of online space where young men are drawn to kind of transgression for transgression's sake

[00:30:49] because things have been so politically correct and they have been so unfairly demonized for such a long time that then it just becomes, you know, tempting to say, burn it all down, say anything to offend anybody for any reason. And there's like a it's cathartic in a way.

[00:31:06] But how can we respond to the legitimate, like, frustrations and even anger that a lot of young men have based on the way they've been treated within without going to that unhealthy extreme? Like, is there a balance that Christianity can can come in and kind of help with? Oh, man, I could talk about that for hours. Well, we got two minutes and then you can talk about it after the break. That's what I figured.

[00:31:34] So, yeah, let me just kind of give you my short answer up front, and that is, yes, absolutely. As Ethan was saying, like, we're seeing a pendulum swing, right? The pendulum swings one way, and you can't swing it that way without it coming back and swinging the other way. So now we have the problem of bitterness in men and pulling so far in the other direction that they go far past where they need to be.

[00:32:02] All the way to sin on the other side, the Andrew Tate, all that kind of stuff. But there is an answer. The answer is found in Scripture. And the answer really is in Proverbs 31, which is a very most people take as an instructions to women. It's actually not. It's instructions to men. And maybe maybe I'll maybe I'll just leave it there and tell you more after the break. Hmm. I have literally never heard that.

[00:32:26] And as a woman, I will say I have seen many a devotional with lots of flowers saying, you know, being a Proverbs 31 woman. And that has caused, you know, a lot of conversation among women in the church. But, yeah, I would love to hear more about that when we come back from the break. But I do think it's important. And when we come back from the break, we'll get some more comments on that and then kind of maybe broaden the conversation to just talk about Gen Z in general.

[00:32:51] Because I think that's so much of what we have to do as Christians and as careful thinkers is say, okay, acknowledge the very legitimate complaints that people have, the very legitimate problems that people are facing. And then how do we come up with a constructive solution?

[00:33:12] Because the constructive solution that's actually going to help people improve and become healthier and address those problems for the long haul is not usually easy. And it usually doesn't feel as immediately gratifying. But both when we're talking about young men, when we're talking about young people in general and the economic issues that they face, how can we address that and not dismiss it and do so in a thoughtful way, in a Christian way? We'll talk about that more when we get back to this break.

[00:33:43] You're listening to Point of View, your listener supported source for truth. All right. Welcome back to the roundtable. A few more minutes with Josh and Ethan.

[00:34:07] Josh, you've got to tell us what you're talking about with Proverbs 31 and how it's actually instructed to men. So go ahead. Yeah, absolutely. And I apologize for monopolizing so much time, Ethan. But I did want to mention this because this is, I think, very, very important. In Proverbs 31, what we have is instructions to King Lemuel, which is probably a nickname for Solomon. And it's from his mother, which would be Bathsheba. And she's telling him about the virtuous woman.

[00:34:36] It's all to a man saying, you need to understand the value of a virtuous woman or a righteous woman. Verse 10, who can find a virtuous woman for her price is far above rubies? The idea here is that she's trying to convince her son of the value of a good woman. And then she's going to list a bunch of things that men don't tend to find valuable. Okay. She's going to seek wool and flax and work with her hands.

[00:35:05] So a man doesn't see a woman, generally speaking, working with her hands and making clothes as incredibly valuable. I already have clothes. I don't need more clothes. I'm fine. I don't mind that they're ripped and torn, and I don't mind that they're all a mess. I can wear the same thing I already have. The woman says, no, you can't. You need to be dressed nicely, you know, and so on and so forth. It's going through a bunch of things that a man wouldn't generally think makes a woman very valuable.

[00:35:34] But then you get down to verse 22 or verse 23, and her husband is known in the gates. She's now made her husband respectable. She's made him better than he was before. And this is the mother trying to tell her son, listen, you don't think a wife is good for you. You don't think all the things that women add to the relationship between you and your wife is all that good. But you need a woman to do these things. And the result is going to be you're going to be a better man. She's going to temper you.

[00:36:04] She's going to tame you. She's going to take this beast of a man and turn it into something respectable and something wonderful. And you need to understand the value of that. And this is what men need to know, that while we are men and we do have this awesome manly drive and masculinity, desire for purpose and meaning and honor and sacrifice, all that is good. But a woman is needed to temper us.

[00:36:32] Women are the ones who take the wild beast and make them respectable and make them something far greater than they can be on their own. We need each other. And that's what Proverbs 31 is all about. And if we can understand that, then it will keep that pendulum from swinging the wrong direction. That's so lovely, Josh. Thank you for explaining that. Great thoughts from both of you on this crisis of masculinity.

[00:36:56] And I want to broaden it, Ethan, because I think we see some similar emotional responses among Gen Z in particular to very real complaints and real problems. So there's an article people can read at pointofview.net. We can't indulge the Gen Z malaise. But what I really want to hone in on for the last few minutes is this idea that so many people in your generation feel a loss of agency.

[00:37:26] Like they don't feel that they can actually control their future, which as Christians, we know there's a limit to what any of us can control, but that basically their actions really have no effect on whether they're going to be successful in life. I wonder what you think about this. Is this a fair assessment? Is it not? Is that a valid feeling that Gen Z may have? What are your thoughts? I'm glad that you selected this article today and that you brought up this agency problem,

[00:37:55] because that's exactly what I had written in my notes. I think last time I was on the show and in my conversations recently even, I've been very pessimistic and cynical, you know, repeating kind of the same things that Gen Z people in this article were saying that, you know, the system is bad for buying houses and, you know, degree isn't what it's worth anymore and all of that. And I tend to be very down about that, but I realized that all of my kind of grumbling and complaining about that, that's not really going to fix it.

[00:38:23] And telling people that are my age that they are not agents in their life, that they cannot make decisions for themselves and that they are just sort of a victim of circumstance, that's the exact same thing the left does with systemic racism or whatever, right? It's just telling people that they don't actually get a say in whether they succeed or not. They're just being tossed around and subject to the whims of other people that are out to get them. That's not productive. So I was reading this and I was thinking about it.

[00:38:51] I think there's a lot of bright spots even in this article about how Gen Z comes at the workforce, right? Because we do focus on things like happiness and well-being, which is important. We tend to take our own side, so to speak, when we look for jobs, right? We're not going to be, you know, the company man is going to stay at the company for 40 years because that's what you do. So we tend to be a little bit more strategic, and I think that's very good. And we're very honest, and I think we understand, you know, sort of the hand we've been dealt.

[00:39:19] And so I think we need to temper that, however, with sort of a clear-eyed optimism and really strong work ethic that, look, these are the cards we've been dealt, but we can't overcome. And ultimately, we should face these challenges with a faith that this world is not the last one if we play our cards right. And so I think young people need to keep that in mind. And for people that are not in Gen Z, we need to sort of have a tempered approach, right?

[00:39:47] We can't be Caroline Levitt calling us lazy. That's not productive. You also can't be indulgent, as this Dispatch article says, right? You can't just say, oh, you know, you poor thing. You're just a victim. Here, here's a handout. That's not good for anybody either, right? So listen with compassion. Give us a kick in the pants when it's needed. And just those people who can alleviate some of the concerns with housing or higher education costs or things like that, they can pull those levers, and we should ask them to.

[00:40:16] But on a day-to-day life, just focus on what we can control. That's my positive balancing out of what I said last time I was on the show. Well, I appreciate that, Ethan. I think you show a lot of wisdom, and I did want to get your perspective because I remembered our conversation last time, too. And I, you know, even being removed just, you know, a decade or so, it's like I don't really get what it's like. And I think that that understanding from somebody who's still in the thick of it and experiencing all those struggles is so important.

[00:40:44] So I appreciate your perspective always and the Gen Z insight and just general insight that you bring, and Josh, you as well. So we've only got a couple minutes left. Josh, I'm going to try to squeeze this in. So I know you mentioned housing and college tuition and things like that, Ethan. But just like in a minute, if there is one thing in particular that you really think policy-wise is affecting your generation today

[00:41:09] in terms of being able to feel like they are succeeding, what's the one thing that in your dream world people would be focusing on? In my dream world, it would be honestly, I think this actually comes back a lot to immigration issues. Because when we have communities that do not look like us and do not feel like home anymore, we have a shortage of high-paying jobs and a shortage of housing.

[00:41:36] A lot of those can be traced back to the destabilizing impacts of massive movements of people across borders. And this is not to disparage any particular person or community, but just to point out that I think people of my generation woke up one day and looked around and said, well, this doesn't look like America and there's not a job for me here and it's hard for me to get a house and I don't know what I have in common with my neighbor. And so how am I going to find a wife and how am I going to find a kid or a husband or whatever?

[00:42:02] And so I think taking steps to sort of preserve that American ethos of faith, family, and freedom, I think that's the groundwork. I really do. That feels like a bit of a cop-out answer, but I think that really is the groundwork, is keeping America American as much as possible. And I think the rest sort of falls in line from there. Thanks for your perspective, Ethan. It's great to hear from you and it's been great talking with you this hour.

[00:42:30] Josh, as always, it's great to have you on Point of View as well. Thanks for being on the roundtable today. It's wonderful to be here. Thank you. So I'm sad because we are out of time for the first hour, but I am also excited about the second hour because we'll be joined by John Mancini and Alyssa Sonnenberg, and that will be a great conversation as well. If you missed any part of this first hour, seriously go to pointofview.net. You can listen to it again on YouTube. You can get the podcast of just this first hour if you follow Point of View Radio Talk Show.

[00:43:00] On Apple Podcasts because, man, we talked about masculinity. We talked about Gen Z. We talked about the antidotes. There's so many frustrations people feel today. Josh and Ethan were bringing it, and we'll hopefully bring it in the second hour as well. So stay with us. We'll be right back. Who can you trust? Years ago, many of us could probably have provided a fairly long list, but today, well, today, it seems we almost can't trust anyone.

[00:43:27] Educators don't even know what a woman is anymore. Many so-called public servants have shown all they care about is themselves. The FBI has been accused of bias, law-breaking, betrayal, and journalism. It's largely corrupt with no Clark Kent standing up for truth, justice, and the American way. All of this is why Point of View Radio is more important than ever.

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[00:44:21] Point of View will continue after this. Across America, live. This is Point of View.

[00:44:49] And now, Liberty McCartney. Welcome to Point of View. It's the second hour of the Roundtable today. And joining me this hour, Alyssa Sonnenberg, who is from the Illinois Family Institute, and John Mancini with the American Principles Project, both frequent co-hosts here on Point of View's Next Generation Roundtable. Alyssa, John, thanks so much for being here.

[00:45:19] Thanks for having us again. So I'm excited to talk about hopefully a lot. Again, there's always so many options, right, so many things that we could discuss. So we will see where the conversation takes us today. But I did want to kick off the hour talking about something that is kind of taking us through from a conversation that we were having just a minute ago with Ethan and Josh. That was just about a lot of the economic frustrations that Gen Z faces.

[00:45:44] And we were talking about specifically whether or not Gen Z still has agency. And we decided that, yes, as individuals, we do. But it can be really hard to feel that for a lot of people right now, economically speaking. And so many of the things that I think a lot of young adults today grew up thinking that they would be able to easily obtain if they kind of got good grades and went to college and got the degree and then got the job. It just didn't maybe pan out exactly like that for a lot of people.

[00:46:14] And so this is an article from Fox News. You can read it at pointofview.net. But this is calling what we're seeing now kind of this economic trend affordability socialism. So it's kind of interesting because we are seeing like the Democratic Socialists of America gain more and more influence. We're seeing that wing of the Democratic Party really pressure a lot of their politicians further and further to the left. We've seen them win races in places like New York and on the West Coast as well.

[00:46:42] And so but this is a really interesting argument that when you don't have good economic education, what you see is something called anti-economics that reappears and it will be different kinds of socialism. So there was like in the past labor union socialism, environmental socialism.

[00:47:01] And now kind of we have cost of living and affordability crisis socialism where people see these specific problems and they want the government to kind of weigh in with a heavier hand. So, Alyssa, let me come to you first. Feel free to comment on anything in terms of the kind of the economic struggles that a lot of young people are facing today and whether or not you think that's why so many people are falling for socialism again. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:47:29] My generation definitely has a misunderstanding not only of how economics works and the downfalls of socialism and the amount of people that it has killed over the years because of how much of it has been. We can look at that. We can look at Cuba. There are so many examples where socialism has devastated countries. But not only that, my generation has a really hard time understanding what the role of government is.

[00:47:56] It is not the government's role to get you out of poverty. It is not the government's job to land you a good job. It's not the government's job to make sure you can buy a house. Now, can the government implement policies that encourage homeownership, make it possible? Can they implement policies to where affordability is a thing, where cost of living is down? Of course they can. But at the end of the day, it is your job to work hard, to bring about the dreams that you have.

[00:48:25] I mean, for years, that was called the American dream. And now, instead of it being a dream, it's called entitlement with my generation, where you are owed a good job that pays six figures every year. You're owed a good retirement plan. You're owed all these things. You're owed to have a nice car. And, I mean, I'm a huge fan. My husband is, too. We're big fans of Dave Ramsey. And we love to watch the YouTube clips where George Hamill and some other hosts will talk to people and talk to them about their debt ratios. You know, they'll be at Disney.

[00:48:54] And I know this is a silly example. But it is interesting to see how many of my generation will rack up a bunch of consumer debt and then complain about not being able to buy a home. It's really interesting. Again, I think there's a lot of facets that go into the affordability issue, creating a lot of socialist tendencies in my generation. And I think a lot of it, at the end of the day, is entitlement and just a misunderstanding of government's role and economics.

[00:49:22] That's a really insightful point, Alyssa, just the lack of education in terms of what government's role is. And I really liked your distinction between how we define the American dream because you're right. Right. That's how I grew up understanding the American dream. The way my parents raised me was that you could achieve anything, you know, if you worked hard.

[00:49:45] And it seems to me, and maybe this is kind of trying to thread too fine of a needle here, but that today a lot of people see the American dream as just the attainment of those things rather than the opportunity and the freedom to struggle to achieve them. I don't know, John. I'd love to get your thoughts on that or anything here that we're discussing. Yeah, I agree with everything that you both just said.

[00:50:11] I think it's totally true that, I mean, gosh, Gen Z, and I can only imagine what Gen Alpha is going to say, but there really is this sense of entitlement and everything. And, Liberty, it is what you said before where it's like – I know we've talked about this in the past too where, yeah, people are told just go to school, work hard, and then you'll get a good job.

[00:50:36] And so I understand, you know, feeling dissatisfied when you do everything you were told, so everything you were supposed to do, and it still doesn't work out for you. But, I mean, I think the thing that really irks me is that then, like, I'll see kind of maybe friends of mine, maybe not friends of mine, just people my age, like, just give up. And I'm like, well, what do you think is going to happen if you just stop working at your dream or something?

[00:51:05] Like, certainly you're not going to attain what you want to do. You're not going to get a good job or anything. And so you might as well just, like, keep working at it. That's how I feel anyway.

[00:51:15] But really my thinking with this piece and with just the rise in socialist policies in general and the push for them, I think there's this quirk about human beings where it's like – well, it's an age-old adage that, like, experience is the best teacher, right?

[00:51:36] So you have this Costa individual who lived through the hyperinflation in Brazil in the 80s and 90s, and he knows firsthand how terrible all these protectionist policies were. And, I mean, you can have, like, a bunch of people from Brazil, like, tell you this and just be like, no, guys. Like, these sorts of government protections and controls and these socialist policies, like, they don't work. It's going to ruin the country.

[00:52:06] And no matter how many people you get, like, just Americans are just going to be so bent on socialism that they're going to be like, well, we'll do it differently. Oh, we'll try it anyway. And, I mean, this sort of thing, this quirk applies to, like, the most mundane things, right? It's like if you're locked in a room with, like, 20 people, let's say, and someone walks up to the door and turns the knob and they're like, oh, guys, it's locked. We can't get out of here. Or all 19 other people are going to be like, really? It's locked?

[00:52:36] And then they're all going to try turning the doorknob to make sure it's locked, right? And it's not because necessarily, anyway, it's not necessarily because they didn't believe the first guy. It's just we're like, well, we've got to try it for ourselves. We have to see for ourselves even if we believe the first guy. Anyway, so that's what this reminded me of.

[00:52:55] And I've kind of felt for a little while now that, like, eventually, just with how things are going, like, yeah, eventually we are going to regress towards, like, socialism and, oh, gosh, God forbid, communism. I really hope we don't go that far. And then we're just going to have to, like, come back to capitalism. And this cycle is probably just going to repeat. Yeah. Well, I have the same fear and concern. I hope that we can educate the next generation well enough so that we don't have to repeat that, John.

[00:53:24] But we'll talk about it more when we get back after the short break. This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson. Secretary of State Marco Rubio is a Republican and Representative Adam Smith is a Democrat.

[00:53:51] They may view the political world differently, but they both can attest to the danger of left-wing violence. Congressman Adam Smith exposed the tactics used by those in the far left in a menacing intimidation campaign against him. This included his vandalized home, a fire set in his driveway, and demonstrators harassing him and his neighbors in an all-night demonstration. Also, one of his staff members was physically assaulted.

[00:54:15] Secretary Marco Rubio recently addressed the issue of left-wing violence not only in this country but in many other countries. He observed that the very idea that far-left terrorism could be a serious threat is treated as a right-wing fever dream or, worse, as a dangerous fascist conspiracy. He also noted that the legacy press probably won't even cover his message on the resurgence of political terrorism. The fact that you're hearing about this for the first time illustrates that point in his message.

[00:54:43] Unfortunately, as he noted, this kind of organized violence is often dismissed as partisan fiction. I noticed this when Treasury Secretary Scott Bessett explained to the media that he was the subject of an assassination attempt hours after being sworn into office. He knew they might want to report it as fiction. That is why he pointed the media to the recent sentencing of the man who wanted to assassinate him. In the past, I've talked about the rise of what has been called the assassination culture.

[00:55:10] Threats against the president, his administration, and even Supreme Court justices illustrate the danger. Unfortunately, the media and many politicians choose to ignore it. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view. Go deeper on topics like you just heard by visiting pointofview.net. That's pointofview.net.

[00:55:40] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. So to kind of wrap up that discussion about economics, and I do want to get to some other topics, even though we could keep talking about that for a long time. John, you brought up a good point that really the man who is featured here in this Fox News article, he grew up with hyperinflation. He grew up outside of the United States, and he saw firsthand what it was like when, you know, the price of a bag of chips was changing by the hour,

[00:56:09] and you had to hoard food in order to make sure that you could feed your family, and the economic system and the market was not reliable. And so it is hard when people haven't experienced that. Like you said, everybody wants to try it out for themselves. And so this is where education really can come in handy and be a wonderful thing. I think what we teach the next generation has such power to really, I mean, gosh, that's how we tell people the truth.

[00:56:38] And we need to be doing that with regard to life as well. Just this is an article from World Magazine. You can see it at pointofview.net. But you already have states like California that mandate that public universities, state universities, actually counsel women to young women to have abortion and even provide abortion drugs on campus. And now California lawmakers want community colleges to offer abortion drugs to students.

[00:57:08] And one of the things that I think is so sad here is that because of these laws, abortion has become such a normal, natural part of life in the perception of so many college students that they just think that it is normal for young women to need to access abortion pills during college. And this is happening in several other states as well. I know Illinois was mentioned in here.

[00:57:34] So, Alyssa, let me come to you, just your thoughts on this normalization of abortion basically as birth control on college campuses. Yeah, it's just downstream from a culture that has ceased to value life. And it's not just abortion. I mean, abortion is obviously the topic that we're talking about, but it's assisted suicide that is now legal in Illinois that has been legal in Canada.

[00:58:02] That when a culture ceases to acknowledge the sanctity of human life as we see in Scripture, when they completely reject a God worldview as our culture has at large, it's not surprising when the next thing to go is life that is valuable. And it's really sad because in college, you are not supposed to be engaging in any kind of sexual activity outside of marriage.

[00:58:29] And to have it so normalized, not even in colleges, but also in high school, it just broke the news that the Trump administration defunded the teen pregnancy prevention programs in public schools. And it sounds nice, teen pregnancy prevention. Of course, we want that. But what it actually is, is it's encouraging teens, maybe unintentionally, but it does encourage teens to engage in sexual activity when they're young, when they're minors.

[00:58:54] And it also offers them abortion as a way to get rid of the problem, quote unquote, in case they get pregnant. So the Trump administration defunding $67 million of that is a great step, but it's also showcasing this bleeding wound that we have in our country, that it's not just colleges that is the problem. It's our high schools. It's our government school system. It's everything that has completely rejected the value of human life.

[00:59:22] And it's really sad that colleges are now going to be another form of an abortion mill. And, you know, parents just really need to be wise with where you send your kids to college, what you're allowing them to read, what you're allowing them to learn, that, you know, parents really need to take the education of their children seriously because these are really big issues that kids are facing at a really young age. And it's bleeding into colleges now. Yeah, great points.

[00:59:48] And I think you're so right that a lot of times we don't realize how soon that messaging starts. And I'm glad you mentioned that about the defunding of the teen pregnancy prevention program. I actually thought about bringing that up as a topic to discuss today. But, again, there's always so much.

[01:00:05] But, again, people are freaking out about it, even though the replacement program would actually give students much more real, like, practical knowledge about their bodies, including with young women teaching them how their cycle works and everything about their bodies so that they can actually get pregnant later on when they're married and young women if they want to.

[01:00:31] And so, again, it's crazy.

[01:01:01] But, John, you know, we can't start too early, really, I think, in terms of teaching the value and the dignity of human life. You know, just the other day I was reading a devotional with my two young boys, and it referenced the devotional just had like one little Bible verse that it referenced, which is about you. You formed me in my mother's womb.

[01:01:22] And I thought, you know, this is a great opportunity to actually turn to Psalm 139 and read that whole passage and talk about how valuable God sees human beings as when they are not yet born. Because at some point way earlier than I would like, I'm sure that from culture, my kids are going to start getting messages that go against what the Bible says.

[01:01:47] So I'm curious, like, is that something that your family, you know, worked into just daily life and conversation? Because we have to be intentional about raising kids who value human dignity now. Yeah, I, you know, I don't remember my parents explicitly telling me that, like, all human life was valuable because I just took that for granted. I was like, yeah, I didn't need to be told that.

[01:02:16] And I think, yeah, Liberty, it's exactly what you said. It's that kids these days are growing up under the being taught to view human life as a commodity, as to view human lives as expendable, right? Like from everything from like baby buying to abortion, of course.

[01:02:41] So, gosh, I mean, this just goes to show how far gone our culture is. It's not completely far gone. I'm a pretty optimistic person. I'm really coming off like I'm not. But, yeah, I mean, I think today it is crucial to ingrain that in children early on because if we don't, then the, I'm just going to say, like, the culture of death is just going to come along and teach children that,

[01:03:06] no, not every human life is valuable, only some human lives are valuable, namely the ones that we decide are valuable. So, yes, I completely agree with you. I think it's wonderful that you were teaching your children that because, yeah, as you said, like they're going to grow up and they're going to be, people are going to try to indoctrinate them into the opposite ideology. So, yeah, but my parents may not have done it. You bet I'm going to be teaching my kids that.

[01:03:31] You know, I think a lot of people took it for granted before, and especially if you personally thought, well, you know, I value all human life. You don't necessarily think that that's something that you have to explicitly teach, but it is. You're so right. It is a culture of death. And so this is something else that is posted at pointofview.net from Front Porch Republic. And so we'll talk about it a little bit more after we get back from the break in a couple of minutes.

[01:04:00] But one of the things that this article talks about is just the way we speak of ourselves. And especially when we are seeing the rise of AI and technology, we've got you know, we speak of ourselves as operating on autopilot. Things are hardwired into us. People even I mean, gosh, this is so gross.

[01:04:21] But people it's common to talk about the human body is just like a meat sack or that our brains are wetware instead of hardware. Like we have all these technical terms that we apply to human beings. And a lot of the arguments and we don't necessarily have to argue AI, even though I'm always up for that if we want to. But a lot of the arguments around use of AI that we see in ads for it and things like that is it's going to make you so productive and so efficient.

[01:04:49] And you're going to be able to accomplish all these things. And I think we have to be really careful with that. And I think it does actually relate to this culture of death, whether it's in high school, like you said, Alyssa, and then coming onto the college campuses as well, where we don't actually value human life for the sake of human life anymore. As a culture, we value humans for what they can produce, whether or not they are productive or efficient.

[01:05:15] And I was just listening to a podcast today where they were basically arguing that at a certain point, you know, if an elderly person feels like they are just a burden and nothing more, they should have the option to make the, quote, noble decision to take advantage of assisted suicide. And that's not noble. That's, again, telling people, whether they are infants or maybe they are disabled or maybe they are elderly, that you're not valuable unless you can produce something.

[01:05:45] And unless you're willing to optimize and maximize and make yourself as productive as possible, then you really don't deserve to live. And so when you are having a situation like on a college campus where students are worried about that and then they're told that they can't do that unless they sacrifice their own children, they're going to end up doing that. So we have to fight back against the culture of death. Let's keep talking about it. We get back in the short break.

[01:06:12] In 19th century London, two towering historical figures did battle, not with guns and bombs, but words and ideas. London was home to Karl Marx, the father of communism and legendary Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon. London was in many ways the center of the world economically, militarily and intellectually. Marx sought to destroy religion, the family and everything the Bible supports.

[01:06:41] Spurgeon stood against him, warning of socialism's dangers. Spurgeon understood Christianity is not just religious truth. It is truth for all of life. Where do you find men with that kind of wisdom to stand against darkness today? Get the light you need on today's most pressing issues delivered to your inbox when you sign up for the Viewpoints commentary at pointofview.net slash sign up.

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[01:07:39] You are listening to Point of View. The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now, here again is Liberty McCarter. Okay, so this is a little bit different than what we normally discuss on Point of View, but since we were talking about the culture of death in the contrast with the culture of life,

[01:08:04] which we need to bring back in the United States, I did want to highlight this article. I mentioned it a little bit before the break, but it's from the Front Porch Republic, Memento Vivere. That's Latin. So we probably are more familiar with the term Memento Mori, Remember You Must Die. But Memento Vivere, and I'm probably mispronouncing that, is Remember to Live. And so the author, again, talks about just the very technical and robotic ways that in modern culture,

[01:08:34] we tend to refer to the human brain and the human mind and the human body as if it's all, we are basically just a wet machine, essentially. And now we have people who are in relationships with AI chatbots. They are addicted to virtual realities. And this is not just science fiction anymore, but it's becoming a growing problem for a lot of people. And she has this line in here that I think is really insightful.

[01:09:02] If we cannot tell the difference between ourselves and our machines, it may not be that the machines are that good. It may be that our lives are that bad, meaning if we would rather live in virtual reality, and there are statistics showing that for a lot of Gen Z who were raised on social media, online life feels more real to them than real life. And then what are we doing with our real lives?

[01:09:30] And so I think this is actually a very deep question for Christians to wrestle with, because if we are talking about the culture of life, that includes policies to protect the vulnerable, like the unborn and the elderly, like we were talking about. But then we also are supposed to be an example to the world. And so I think this brings up an interesting question, especially in our technology-driven age. But, Alyssa, I'd love to get your thoughts on this and what you think we should think about as Christians in terms of what it means to truly live.

[01:10:00] Yeah, absolutely. I think as believers sometimes we have an almost too negative view on the life here, because we're so excited for and looking forward to when Jesus returns. And we're with him, and he makes everything new. And, of course, we as believers are told in Scripture to look forward to that day. However, that doesn't mean that life here is meaningless or that life here isn't enjoyable.

[01:10:26] I think of 1 Timothy 6, where we are told that God richly provides us with everything to enjoy. If you're married, enjoy your husband. If you have children, enjoy your children. If it's a beautiful day outside, enjoy the beautiful day outside. God has given us gifts to enjoy them. He's given us taste buds to enjoy food. Fish don't have taste buds. So many animals don't have taste buds. He's given us fences to enjoy the weather outside.

[01:10:56] He's given us eyes to see, to be able to see the birds and nature. Sure. And if we are just so consumed with preferring a virtual reality or virtual friendship or the affirmations that we get from ChatTBP, it's very accurate that it's not that these virtual helpers are so great. It's that our lives are so depleted from the joy that we could have. Yeah. I think you're so right.

[01:11:21] There's so much beauty in creation and in the way that God made us. So many things like taste buds that we don't necessarily need. But, man, I'm glad they're there. But, John, let's get your thoughts on this, too. Yeah. I thought this piece was really interesting. I think the overall idea of, like, make sure you live your life is definitely a good one.

[01:11:51] I did think the whole opening about artificial intelligence was interesting. But I think I still veer more on the side of AI has just gotten really good at fooling us than the idea that our lives have gotten so stale. I mean, I don't know.

[01:12:17] Like, I'm just not super convinced that if you think AI is so good, it means that you have a boring life, I guess, which I took to be the driving point. I mean, when I interact with AI, I'm sometimes really blown away by how well it can integrate personality and that sort of thing into its responses. It's still very important to remember that this isn't a human being that you're talking to.

[01:12:46] And I think it's pretty easy to do that, given that it's not talking to you out loud, unless you're using the voice mode, which maybe stay away from that just to make sure that you have that kind of cognitive dissonance. So those were my overall thoughts. I think, you know, I think it's good to remember to live. Like, yes, definitely do that. Make sure you enjoy life. You know, I don't know if this is an Italian immigrant thing. I've heard it is.

[01:13:14] But I would be shocked if this doesn't show up across just other families as well. But, like, my family has always been big on saving money to the point that, like, I would say to the point that we could be super cheap, not even frugal, just cheap. And it's, like, something I've had to do over the last few years is remember, like, okay, wait, what am I going to do after I've saved all this money? I mean, I'm only going to use so much in retirement.

[01:13:43] I'm only going to leave my kids so much. Like, yeah, don't forget to spend money to enjoy things in the world. Go on vacation. You know, that's a good thing to do. But I do think the connection to AI was just a little bit weak, I suppose. Again, I think it's perfectly fine to say AI has gotten perhaps scary good at acting human. And that doesn't necessarily mean you have a boring life or that you're not living it.

[01:14:12] I think that's a fair point. And I think it really does come down to the individual, too, in terms of how well insulated are they in a real life community? How well grounded are they? Because we know a lot of people today are not. And we'll talk about that a little bit more in a moment because forging real life in person, physical connections and relationships and community, I think, is more important than ever.

[01:14:39] So, but yeah, I mean, definitely artificial intelligence is becoming quite convincingly, you know, impressive to a lot of people. But I think it's all the more reason to ground us in reality. And I know, Alyssa, you know, we got a few more minutes before the next break. But this is something I think about when I'm raising my kids is just wanting them to experience the richness of the real world and not be on the screens.

[01:15:07] Because I don't know exactly how it's going to go. I don't know if there's going to be kind of a revolt against too much technology or if we are going to move more and more toward like the WALL-E world where everybody is living in digital reality. And I want my kids to have their foundation in the real world and not be addicted to that and know what real joy is, not dopamine exploitation. But I don't know. Is that something that you're thinking about, too, as you raise your family? Absolutely.

[01:15:36] I mean, I only have a one-year-old at the moment. But she has not been on screens. And I don't think most parents have their one-year-olds on screens. I don't think that's super controversial to do. But, I mean, we're wanting my husband and I to keep her off screens as much as possible, even as she continues to get older, as she continues to get into eventually her teenage years. We don't want her to have a phone.

[01:16:01] And there are action steps that we're already thinking of, of how do we protect our children from not only the predators out there, the bad influences, but also from getting too bogged down with being so inundated with so much information that it's so freeing to just unplug and go outside. And, you know, she's at the age where she loves to be outside.

[01:16:26] And she, even if the screen was on, I'm not sure that she would even be that interested because, you know, she's a one-year-old doing one-year-old things. And she doesn't stop until she's bleached. She's going and going. So, at that point, we're not there yet. But in an idealistic way, we are there, that we want to keep her as plugged into the real world as possible. And I think most parents have, you know, ideals like that. I think most parents want their kids to have a really good integrated childhood.

[01:16:56] Yeah. And I applaud you for doing that. And I think we have to be more intentional about it than ever because I think you're right. A lot of parents do want to do that. And, you know, my kids are eight and five now. And, you know, we have really tried to follow the tech exit by Claire Morell, which is, you know, keeping your kids basically off of smartphones and tablets and video games and cell phones and everything while they're under your roof. But it is hard because it's so countercultural.

[01:17:26] And it seems like everybody's got screens. But I think it's so important in just kind of on this note of Memento Vavere, remember to live because God created our brains, like you said at the beginning of the segment, Alyssa, in our bodies to experience so much joy and so much pleasure in the natural world and creation that he has given us. And what any kind of addiction does, including screen addiction, is it exploits your dopamine receptors.

[01:17:54] So what that does is it makes it more and more difficult for you to feel natural pleasure. And so the real world really doesn't hold much appeal to somebody who has lived in a virtual reality and basically had their brain exploited and really erased their ability to feel the natural pleasures that God created in the real world. And so I think it's very important for Christians to think about joy, the joy of life and creation. We can focus on all the problems a lot.

[01:18:20] But if we aren't having hope and joy in the creation that God is giving us, we're missing the point. But we'll have more to talk about when we get back from this break. You're listening to Point of View, your listener supported source for truth. All right. We have a few minutes left in the show today.

[01:18:46] And over the course of the last couple of hours, we've talked about the crisis of masculinity. We've talked about Gen Z, malaise and economic frustration, how our culture has really normalized death and devalued human life. And we've talked about how if we're not careful, then the digital and virtual world can really numb us to the joys of real life.

[01:19:07] And so I wanted to wrap up with this and not to be trite, because I think that there are very real policy solutions and economic realities that we can talk about that come to bear on all of those topics that I just mentioned. But I don't think we can leave out this important part of the antidote, which is what God created us for. And that is real life community, real people. And so that's why we have this article. You can read it pointofview.net from the Institute for Family Studies.

[01:19:35] It's called The Best Thing for Your Brain is Other People, Even Annoying Ones. And the author goes on to say that we hear a lot of vague generalizations about how good community is for us. But sometimes we misunderstand that good community doesn't mean that everybody will be nice or that you always feel understood and validated. It doesn't even always mean that you're going to be liked. But real community is the good and the bad. It's what remains after people have to deal with each other.

[01:20:04] And in family, in long-term friendships, in all kinds of relationships, there is friction and sometimes annoyance. But this is making the argument that that is actually a crucial part of real community. John, I'd love to get your thoughts on this. What do you think about how our brain needs people? Do you agree that we even need the annoyances sometimes? I think that's an interesting question. Yeah, do we need the annoyances?

[01:20:35] I read this a couple of times because I was having a little bit of difficulty just kind of ascertaining what exactly he was getting at with the annoyances. And I think it was ultimately, just to bring it back to AI, I think it was ultimately like, you know how AI just kind of affirms you in whatever the heck it is you're doing? Hey, should I do X? Yes, absolutely you should do X. In fact, you should do that all day long. Like, whatever.

[01:21:03] It's never going to, or at least at one time anyway, because I know at one point it was encouraging, like, self-harm. And so they had to go in and tweak that. So maybe now it won't encourage you to do all things. But that idea of just general affirmation, I think that's ultimately what this piece is getting at, is that a community isn't always going to affirm you. It's going to offer you pushback, especially pushback where you need it.

[01:21:30] And so something that I thought was kind of lacking here was you need to make sure it's a good community. You know, like we've talked about church communities in the past. Like, those are excellent communities because they will just straight up tell you if you're leading a poor life. Or at least they should, right?

[01:21:51] I mean, but, and to kind of go off that a little bit more, I think really you should determine what community you should be a part of based on how it affects your relationship with God. And if you're not a believer, then just based on whether or not you're a good person, which brings it back to God. But we don't have to tell you that part.

[01:22:10] But, you know, if you've engaged in any activity or you've joined any community and you notice that your faith life has deteriorated as a result or you've just not grown closer to God that you've actually drawn away from him, I think it's pretty clear evidence that that community and that activity is not good for you. So that's really like the main thing I was lacking.

[01:22:33] But other than that, just the idea that, yeah, be surrounded by a group of people that will give you pushback when you need it, that won't always affirm you in everything you're doing. It's like people that genuinely listen to you, right, and hear you on and actually care about you. That's a very good message. Yeah. Yeah. And you're right about choosing our circle carefully. And there's a lot of wisdom in the Bible about that.

[01:22:58] But, Alyssa, it made me think of a trend that was especially going viral a few months ago among Gen Z, which was friction maxing. And I thought that was interesting because what it told me is that a generation kind of raised as digital natives has become so accustomed to not having friction. And I'll also kind of add, I don't know, a culture of like labeling any kind of friction or annoyance in relationships as toxic and cutting people out. Like, you know, that's a problem in a lot of areas.

[01:23:27] And so it was interesting to me that then it was kind of like people were rediscovering doing things that caused friction or pushback a little bit. And then that's what I thought about when I was reading this article. But what are your thoughts? Yes, actually, I was going to bring that up if you weren't. And I immediately thought of how, I guess you could say, therapized our culture is that any type of friction is bad.

[01:23:57] And if you have friction with your parents, cut them out. If you have friction with that one uncle, you know, cut them out. And I remember, I think it was Kristen Bell going on the Tonight Show maybe. And I can't remember which show she was on. And, you know, here's this secular woman. And she was even pushing back against that toxic trend that, you know, Uncle Randy is always going to be Uncle Randy. And, you know, the beautiful thing about community is, yes, a good community. Sorry, my one-year-old is being one-year-old.

[01:24:28] A good community is absolutely essential of people pouring into you, having good influences around yourself, around your kids. Church is a great place to find that. But also, I mean, we have families. And family gets messy sometimes. And sometimes there's that one family member that you just don't jive well with. And you know what? That's the beauty of human connection, that sometimes it's messy, but it's still beneficial.

[01:24:52] It's not good for you to always be in an environment that is affirming you and there's no tension whatsoever. It's good to experience hardships and challenges and family tensions. But it grows you as a person. You learn how to handle different situations. You learn how to parent better. You learn how to do a lot of things. When you're put into a situation where you have messy families. And every family is messy in one way, shape, or form. No family is perfect.

[01:25:21] And so this idea that if any type of tension arises, it's toxic and we need to cut it out, is just ridiculous. And you're going to end up being very lonely very quickly. Because no one's going to want to be around you. If any hinders friction, you cut them out. So I think it's so beneficial that, yes, good community is essential. But also, if there's friction in some communities, that's not always a bad thing. Sometimes that's just the reality of being human. Yeah. Yeah. So well said.

[01:25:51] Great points from both of you. I think, John, you made such a great point about how we do need good community. But even that good, positive community, like, for instance, that we would find in church with people who share our beliefs, even that is going to have friction. Because we do need people who are going to call us out and not just affirm all of our decisions and inclinations. Like you said, a chatbot might.

[01:26:15] And even on little things, something that was so sad to me was I think it was last year I read an article in the Wall Street Journal about an AI chatbot that was being deployed in school districts as a school counselor because there weren't enough school counselors. And there was this teenage girl quoted in the article who said she feels like she's a bother when she talks to her friends about her mental health struggles. So she just talks to the chatbot instead.

[01:26:38] So I feel like if we aren't normalizing again or just raising people with the expectation that sometimes you will get pushback or sometimes you do have loved ones that go through something difficult and you need to be there for them, then we will see more people isolating like that. And then on the other side, though, Alyssa, you made such a great point, too, that sometimes in our life, like God places people, whether it's family or, you know, that one person that's in our church that is annoying. We don't really get along with.

[01:27:07] But we can learn so much about grace for another person and God's love, which is perfect, even when ours isn't, when we are put in those positions. And that is so much of what we need. And, you know, maybe that's not going to solve every single political problem that we discuss on Point of View or that we've discussed today. But I think building and investing in real relationships and teaching the next generation how to do that and to expect friction and then that's OK. I think that really is a part of rebuilding a healthy nation.

[01:27:35] But John, Alyssa, thank you so much for being on Point of View today. You can find all of their information and follow their work at pointofview.net and read the articles we've talked about today. Thanks, Megan, for engineering the show. Thank you, Karen, for filling in and producing today. And thank you for listening to Point of View. The Bible tells us not to worry. And yet there is a lot of worrying stuff in our world today.

[01:28:01] Thankfully, the Bible doesn't stop at telling us not to worry. God gives us a next step. He says we need to pray. But sometimes even knowing what to pray can be difficult. And that is why Point of View has relaunched our Pray for America movement, a series of weekly emails to guide you in prayer for our nation.

[01:28:25] Each week, you'll receive a brief update about a current issue affecting Americans, along with a written prayer that you can easily share with others. We'll also include a short free resource for you in each email so you can learn more about the issue at hand. Will you commit to pray for America? Go to pointofview.net. Click on the Pray for America banner at the top of the page to subscribe.

[01:28:56] Again, that's pointofview.net. Click on the Pray for America banner. Let's pray together for God to make a difference in America. Point of View is produced by Point of View Ministries.