Point of View July 16, 2026: The Round Table

[00:00:04] Across America, live, this is Point of View, and now, Kirby Anderson. Welcome to the Round Table. It's a great day to have a Point of View Round Table with you listening, and we have so much to discuss, including abortion on the ballot in upcoming midterm elections and what you need to know about that.

[00:00:33] Why are so many young people voting socialists into office across the country? And we're going to talk about Gen Z, of course, as well, as this is the Next Generation Round Table, including the Gen Z job crisis, housing crisis, meaning crisis. And we'll end the show with a really special segment. So make sure that you stay around for the whole show today. And if you miss any part of it, as a reminder, you can always catch up at pointofview.net by listening to the podcast after we broadcast live.

[00:01:00] So I hope that you do that. But joining us here in the first hour, Chelsea Yeoman. Of course, you know her. She is frequently on Point of View as a guest host and co-host. And she is the senior counsel at Alliance Defending Freedom and always has great information and perspective to share on the front lines of the fight for life. So, Chelsea, thanks so much for being with me on Point of View. I'm so excited to join today, Liberty McCarter.

[00:01:25] Yes, we have so much to discuss. Everything I mentioned in that little preview was just a very like a smattering of the topics that hopefully we'll get to today. But I am excited to talk to you today, as well as Richard Lim, who's also on the line this hour, of course, one of our favorite historians here at Point of View and the host of This American President. But let's talk about an article that listeners can find at pointofview.net on a few states, four in particular, where things related to abortion are going to be on the ballot in November.

[00:01:55] And so it's time to start thinking about this now if you live in any of these states and if you know anybody who does. So I'll just give a little rundown and then I'll kick it to you, Chelsea, and we'll talk about what's going on here. But in Idaho, there's actually a very pro-life state in Idaho, but there will be a measure on the ballot where voters can decide whether or not to roll back the existing abortion ban.

[00:02:19] So if you are in Idaho or know people in Idaho and are pro-life, those pro-life laws are at risk. In Virginia and Nevada, which already have pretty permissive abortion laws, I think, allowing abortion up to 24 and 27 weeks, respectively, are considering constitutional amendments to their state constitutions that would actually enshrine that so-called right to abortion where it is legal all throughout pregnancy.

[00:02:48] And then in Missouri, there's actually an opportunity for people in Missouri to reinstate an abortion ban. So a lot of things to discuss. And I think it's always good to kind of look at the state level, Chelsea, so that people can think about where they might make a difference. But feel free to comment on any of these state battles or other things that listeners need to be aware of in regards to the pro-life fight right now. Yes.

[00:03:13] Well, I think this is the number one issue besides abortion drug trafficking that everybody – this should be an alarm bell for everybody because once these states do pass a constitutional amendment, it guts every single pro-life protection the legislature has ever passed. And so we're talking about states that protect children from conception or maybe even just first trimester. none of that will be allowed anymore.

[00:03:40] And so forget abortion drug battles and trying to protect children in the womb through your legislative cycle. It will be constitutionally considered a right to obtain an abortion. And some of these amendments that have passed in other states, and because it's a 50 percent threshold of the vote, in most states, the abortion lobby has spent hundreds of millions on this because they know if they win this issue, they win it all.

[00:04:08] They can make abortion a nationwide right. It's horrific, and it's been largely successful. I think we're outspent, you know, 1,000 to 1 financially on these ballot initiatives. There are not a lot of pro-life pacts, and so it's been really difficult. One state, however, did beat these back, and that was the state of Florida. They had 60 percent voting thresholds.

[00:04:30] And because Governor DeSantis activated, he and even the current attorney general now worked really hard to raise millions and millions of dollars to message and let everybody know this isn't – it's not a nine amendment. This should be something every person is out voting against in those states. Richard, thanks for joining the roundtable today.

[00:04:54] You know, I'm reminded whenever we've seen similar ballot measures in other states in, you know, since Roe was overturned is really when a lot of this picked up. You know, there was so much misinformation and fear that I think drove people in some cases to the voting booth to approve these constitutional amendments or overturn pro-life bans and things like that because they were being fed misinformation about what this would do to women's care.

[00:05:23] So, again, it just reminds me that this is so crucial for pro-lifers to be educated on this issue and let people know what's actually at stake in their state. Yeah, absolutely. It wasn't that long ago when we were celebrating the end of Roe just a few years ago, but as we see, that victory was really just the beginning, not the end.

[00:05:45] Now that the court has moved the issue back to the states to decide every state is a battlefield in the fight to protect the unborn, and you're seeing that in the nation as a whole it's basically a patchwork of different laws that this issue is going to be decided on. Christians must stay active at the state level, especially when it comes to these ballot initiatives and just the overall debate. That's where the battlefield is.

[00:06:15] We're seeing these ballot initiatives putting the vote directly to the people, circumventing the state legislatures, and amending constitutions, as Chelsea pointed out. And that really necessitates the need to appeal beyond religious and fellow Christian voters to a broader coalition, including moderates and independents. That's just the reality of it, being in a democratic society.

[00:06:45] And so I think that will mean using language that appeals to them as possible, language that talks about human rights and appeals to science and medicine and to the facts that we know to be true. Yeah, yeah, those are great points. And to that end, I wanted to highlight something that was in this article, which this is from the Associated Press, so not necessarily a pro-life slant by any means, but you can read it at pointofview.net.

[00:07:13] And they quote an activist group in here that is pro-abortion. The article says some groups want to see state laws that go further than Roe v. Wade did and lift restrictions on abortion throughout pregnancy. So this is from National Abortion Federation, an organization of abortion providers. And here's what they said. They oppose, quote, rigid legal cutoffs that ban or restrict abortion care at viability or arbitrary gestational lines.

[00:07:43] Now, honestly, I am glad they are saying this because I think it makes the true fight that we're in abundantly clear, because I also agree that those viability lines or other limits to abortion appears when you can or can't have one. And I also agree that those are arbitrary because I think that human life starting at conception is worth defending because that is a human person. And we have to defend the right to life.

[00:08:11] But they are now admitting as well, and I think you're seeing more and more abortionists, abortion activists admit this, that, yeah, those are arbitrary lines because we've always said this. It's a slippery slope. If you allow abortion at any point during pregnancy, when the science clearly shows us that that is a human person, it's not up for debate anymore, then you are just arguing for the right to kill a life that you deem inconvenient. And they're saying that now. So that's important for us to realize and recognize.

[00:08:38] But we'll be back with more talk about pro-life issues and so much more after this. This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:04] Dr. Leonard Sachs holds a Ph.D. in psychology and has been a family doctor for nearly 34 years. He said he never saw a correlation between politics and parenting until now. He said left of center parents were no better and no worse than parents on average than right of center parents. He has now documented that children of politically liberal parents are more likely to suffer from depression and anxiety and a lack of sense of life meaning and have substance abuse issues. He's noted that over the past decade there's been an increase in what he calls permissive parents.

[00:09:34] They have been persuaded to carry out more gentle parenting because they don't want to be controlling to their children. In most cases, the children become the authority while parents try to be patient, calm, and punishment-free. His story from an article in the Institute for Family Studies illustrates this only so well. A mom brought her six-year-old daughter into the office with a fever and sore throat. He asked the girl to open her mouth and say, ah. She shook her head and clenched her mouth. He asked the mom for help.

[00:10:02] Instead, the mother merely replied, her body, her choice. NYU professor Jonathan Haidt has been on my radio program to talk about his book, The Coddling of the American Mind. He believes that the real reason that left of center kids are more likely to be depressed compared to right of center kids is that left of center kids have been taught to catastrophize events, to assume the worst, while right of center kids have been taught to be more optimistic.

[00:10:28] You know, what is taught at home and what is consumed on social media is having a negative impact on the minds and mental states of children and adolescents. Political views and mental health seem to be correlated more than ever. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view. Go deeper on topics like you just heard by visiting pointofview.net. That's pointofview.net.

[00:10:59] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. All right, before we move on to our next article, which is also about the pro-life issue, I wanted to ask you, Chelsea, just final thoughts when we are talking about these state-level battles and you were talking about how outfunded we are, and as I mentioned just a few minutes ago, I think the pro-abortion movement's cards really are out. They're on the line. They're exposing themselves.

[00:11:28] They aren't about – I mean, we are so far past abortion being safe, legal, and rare. This is – they are wanting to enshrine state constitutional rights to abortion at any time for any reason. And so what do we do when we know that the pro-life movement is outfunded for somebody who's wanting to fight for pro-life protections in their state? What are some practical steps they can take? I think that's a great question.

[00:11:53] I mean, the first is to be educated and understand the abortion rate was its highest in 15 years last year. Its highest. 1.1 million children died. And so to understand with a sense of urgency that this is not getting better, it's getting worse, but that it matters who you vote for. It matters that you register to vote and you show up to vote every single time. And to spread the word in conversations, I think there's a large role for the church to play in this.

[00:12:21] And so to be real community and talk about this, make sure people are getting out, your friends, your community groups, your Bible studies, everybody is activated. That starts with us, to know our circles on this and to spread the word. I think most people just don't know what is going on. And then I think to hold your elected officials feet to the fire, there have been a massive push in the Republican Party to remove pro-life party platforms at the state level.

[00:12:50] Many social issues have been removed. This is not the only one. But to say, no, our conservative values are social. We don't want to be the libertarian populist party that's being crammed on our throats right now. We expect you to be a pro-life shield for these children and their mothers. And if they know that this is your number one issue, and for most of us it is. It's a top two voting, mobilizing voting issue, according to Pew Research.

[00:13:15] So if this is your number one issue, if this is your number 10 issue, if this is just 50-50, we like to be pro-life. Make sure your elected officials during campaign season know where you stand. Yeah, that is so good. We do have to hold elected officials accountable, and we cannot buy into the lie that, oh, it's just not that important. Or, you know, conservatives can't win elections if we keep harping on the pro-life issue. If we can't defend the right to life in the United States of America, then what are we trying to defend?

[00:13:45] I mean, really, that's the most fundamental one. We just had the 4th of July, and it's right there in the Declaration of Independence. So we have to defend that. But not to in any way diminish the urgent need to combat these abortion movements at the state level or anything like that.

[00:14:07] But another facet of the pro-life movement in terms of just valuing human life in all forms has to do with a way that a lot of people are actually trying to conceive and start a family.

[00:14:19] So this can be a tough issue to talk about, but, Richard, you sent me this article from The Daily Signal, which people can read at pointofview.net, talking about IVF and how IVF actually kills more babies than Planned Parenthood, which recently got its federal funding reinstated, by the way. So this is important for us to realize. Just a couple of numbers from the article, and then I'll kick it over to you, Richard. But we know that roughly 1 million children are killed through abortion every year.

[00:14:48] But over 3 million embryos are created through IVF annually. And in a recent year, out of 435,000 cycles of IVF, there were only 98,000 live births. So 85% of the embryos that are created through IVF are not given a chance to survive. They're either frozen or discarded.

[00:15:10] So this is hard because this comes from a place not of people really devaluing life, at least not consciously, but actually trying to start a family. But the way that the industry goes about it, it really does end up devaluing human life at the most vulnerable level. So, Richard, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Yes.

[00:15:38] So as those who believe in the sanctity of life from the moment of conception, we should oppose any process that leads to the destruction of embryos, especially on something like this where, as you pointed out in the article, we're talking millions of embryos are being destroyed. And as Chelsea said, you know, the urgency that we have with on the abortion issue, how much more so with this issue as well.

[00:16:06] We understand that IVF helps couples have children that wouldn't otherwise be able to have them. And so obviously this is an issue that divides, you know, even people on our side in the pro-life movement. But at the same time, we know that children are a great blessing from God, but not every way of having children is biblical.

[00:16:30] There's a long history throughout our country of imposing restrictions on, you know, technological advancements and scientific and medical research. And so I think that would be something that is appropriate in this case.

[00:16:56] It's important that we support developing IVF methods that create only the number of embryos that will actually be implanted. That's the least that should happen on this issue. And I think there's a broader debate about whether it'd be practical to fight against the practice in general. Yeah, those are good points, Richard. And one of the things that the article notes is that in the United States, the IVF industry is really like the Wild West,

[00:17:24] because even compared to other countries where IVF is legal, there is so little regulation about anything to do with the process. And so, in fact, the IVF industry is projected to exceed $15 billion annually. So, Chelsea, I think this is one of the reasons why it is often pushed, even at the expense of other treatments that might get at the root issue.

[00:17:50] So one of the things that I've been reading more and more about is something called restorative reproductive medicine, which the left loves to hate on. But it is a process where when a couple is struggling with infertility, the doctor actually prioritizes identifying the root cause. Now, again, just like IVF, it's not a guarantee of a future pregnancy, but it has helped a lot of women and actually solve things at the root cause.

[00:18:15] I think so many women have been in a position where they go to the doctor for help with fertility and it's just like, OK, go to IVF. And so, in some sense, I don't think that, you know, I think that there's a lot of money behind the motivation to keep this industry going rather than care for women and couples where they are. Yeah, I think you're on to that. I believe the article says it's a $15 billion industry. So there's an exorbitant amount of money to be made off of this.

[00:18:46] And, of course, I do believe insurances are now covering it. And so you have some states where it's required to be covered by insurance as a benefit. And I want to hone in on something because I think this is a really hard conversation that we're having. This is a hard topic. We're talking about people who love children, want children, cannot have children or maybe can but need to do it in an alternative way in order to make it happen.

[00:19:14] And my heart goes out and is truly compassionate for anyone struggling with fertility issues. It's a hard conversation not just because of that but because I think the easy thing for us to do would be to say, sure, to each their own. Everybody deserves a family. And ethically, we can't. We can't say that in the IVF context.

[00:19:36] And that's because even if you only, let's say there's only one embryo created and implanted, 30 embryos or more die for each one that makes it. For each live-born child, 30 other children died. And that's because it's inherent with more risk. There's a higher risk of miscarriage, a higher risk there won't be implantation.

[00:19:57] It is not apples to apples when it comes to success rates for children born naturally or through IVF. And so I think we should all know that and be aware of that. Children are more likely to die through IVF. And that's a hard truth, right? That's not something that's easy to talk about. And then the other issue is the entire IVF industry is unregulated.

[00:20:21] I would love for us to spend some time on that because it is the Wild West and it is ripe for abuse. Yeah, absolutely. In fact, you know, there's people have sort of a term that I've heard and seen more and more is baby buying and saying, like, make baby buying illegal again.

[00:20:42] But in many of these cases, I mean, there is little to no screening that is required for any adult to basically enter the IVF process in order to obtain a child. Oftentimes that includes using somebody else's egg or a surrogate. And what you are, in effect, doing is paying for somebody else to produce a child for you.

[00:21:07] And that is, you know, not the screening that is required to even go through the adoption process is not required for parents through IVF. And so, anyways, there's so much to discuss with that. And it's something that, like Chelsea said, it is a difficult conversation. But Christians have to be willing to go there. So we can talk about that a little bit more as well as other topics when we get back from this short break. So don't go anywhere. The Bible tells us not to worry.

[00:21:35] And yet there is a lot of worrying stuff in our world today. Thankfully, the Bible doesn't stop at telling us not to worry. God gives us a next step. He says we need to pray. But sometimes even knowing what to pray can be difficult. And that is why Point of View has relaunched our Pray for America movement, a series of weekly emails to guide you in prayer for our nation.

[00:22:04] Each week you'll receive a brief update about a current issue affecting Americans, along with a written prayer that you can easily share with others. We'll also include a short free resource for you in each email so you can learn more about the issue at hand. Will you commit to pray for America? Go to pointofview.net.

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[00:22:52] You are listening to Point of View. The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now here again is Liberty McCarter.

[00:23:15] So one thing we want to discuss today is why so many people are, young people in particular, are voting socialists into office. But before we go there, let's wrap up this conversation about IVF. And I just want to mention the reason we spend time on the issue of abortion and the issue of IVF, which, as we've said, that can be tough to talk about because that's an issue where people are wanting to have a family.

[00:23:40] But the reason we need to discuss these is because really the foundational thing that connects them both is whether or not we value the sanctity of human life. And so that affects abortion and what we think about that. That affects IVF and whether or how we think that should be practiced. It affects care for our elders. It affects so many things, how we treat other people. If we don't have a fundamental understanding of the inherent dignity of human life,

[00:24:09] then we cannot really understand any of these other issues that come out of that. But we were talking about how IVF, the industry in the United States, a $15 billion industry is where it's projected to go, really is the Wild West. Chelsea, I'd love to get a few more thoughts from you on just where we can start with pushing for regulations on this industry. Yes, well, several things come to mind. I mean, we at Alliance Defending Freedom have been having this discussion a lot.

[00:24:37] We work on all sorts of issues related to our freedoms and rights, the first of which, of course, is the right to life. And we've been discussing, you know, almost an embryo bill of rights. Think about if this is a real child, which it is, a child that's been created, there is a duty and a responsibility of care to that child that every single living child would have.

[00:24:59] And so storage facilities, what comes to mind is that case out of Alabama you may remember a few years ago that kind of got the right all up in arms and worried. An IVF storage facility had a breach of security. Someone was able to wander in at a hospital, picked up embryos, and then dropped them because they're frozen and it was very cold. And all those embryos died. And the parents sued the facility for wrongful death and won.

[00:25:27] And that's a righteous win right there. Okay, so us saying, you know, storage facilities have a duty of care. We know a storage facility failed and 4,000 embryos were killed, maybe a duty of care for implantations. And then thinking about who adoption-type regulations for these embryos, because there's a whole body of contract law when it comes to surrogacy. And so surrogates may be able to terminate if they want.

[00:25:56] Or what happens if one of the embryos has a genetic disorder? Sure. Are embryos, should they be allowed to be genetically edited, which is what's happening? They call them designer babies. Should you be able to pick the eye color, the hair color? They can edit the DNA out for genetic history, family history for diseases. And when you get into that area of IVF, you're truly talking about eugenics.

[00:26:23] You're truly talking about survival of the fittest, who does and does not make the cut when it comes to life, who is and is not valued. So I would start there. Let's start with basic safety and security, health protocols in the medical community, responsibility upon the medical community, and then making sure kids are not going into abusive homes, which we've seen a lot of.

[00:26:48] We've seen a lot of gay couples whose children they had through IVF they are abusing at home come out in the news recently. We have Chinese billionaires having 200 children via surrogacy in the United States and then bringing them back to China. This is unconscionable what we're talking about.

[00:27:08] And so I know I'm very passionate about it, but the industry is fraught with abuse, and it would be great to just start to begin to have some regulations in the United States of America. Yeah, those are so good, Chelsea. I think we're going to need to do a whole hour at least on the Embryo Bill of Rights. I think that is such a brilliant idea. And, yes, often when we talk about IVF, we're thinking of maybe somebody that we know in our life who really went through a long fertility struggle,

[00:27:37] and then they were finally able to have a baby. And it can be hard to talk about this issue or say, well, I think it should be regulated or it's not right, because maybe we know people personally who have gone through that out of the desire to have a family. But like you're saying, there are so many ways in which this is being abused. And I just, I mean, this was an example out of Canada, but it was in the news earlier this week where a same-sex couple is actually suing their surrogate

[00:28:04] because the baby that they paid her to carry through the process of IVF was born with a cleft palate, which is a very treatable condition. And they are suing her because she withheld that information from them that while the baby was still in utero, that that was discovered and that she did not abort. So the surrogacy industry is another issue that we need to talk about because women are so exploited through that.

[00:28:34] So, yeah, it's something to be educated about. And as Chelsea said earlier, that's the first step to start having these conversations and Christians and the church. We need to take the lead. So one way to help get the word out and educate people is to say with your Bible study or small group or your group of friends at church or your pastor, send them the podcast episode of our conversation today. In the first hour, we've talked about all these life issues that people might not be aware of.

[00:29:01] And so that's a resource that you can use to help get the word out and get that conversation going. So, like I said, we need to devote more time to that. But I did want to get to this other topic as well, which is so many young people supporting socialists. So, Richard, you sent this article from The New York Times. People can read it at pointofview.net talking specifically about the primaries that were recently held in New York City,

[00:29:25] where two DSA, Democratic Socialists of America candidates won in those primary elections primarily because of young people voting for them. In some cases, there were more young people voting in those primaries than older people. And that's typically not the pattern that you see in primaries. But we're really seeing this DSA socialism movement mobilize the younger voting bloc, aren't we, Richard?

[00:29:55] Yes, and I think it's a reflection of the fact that, and we all know this, young people are in serious trouble. We know the stats of increased depression and anxiety. We know that they're worried about things like housing costs and student debt, which causes them to turn to the false prophets of socialism, even though history shows us that socialism just creates more and more misery.

[00:30:20] We know that more than any previous generation, they are marrying and having kids at lower rates than ever before, which deprived them of many of life's greatest joys, to say nothing of practical things like greater income and stability. And, yes, so I think as Christians we need to make clear that it's actually the biblical institutions, not the government,

[00:30:44] biblical institutions like family and marriage and church and community that will do more to meet their needs than anything else. We know that young people are susceptible to the call for social justice. I think we need to be bold in defending our beliefs and the idea that the Bible is the only thing in this world that actually provides real justice. What we know from the Bible is what provides real justice,

[00:31:12] and that we Christians are called to care for the poor and protect human dignity. And I think, unfortunately, young people are trying to find those things in everything outside of truth and God's truth. Yeah, so well said. You know, Chelsea, I do feel like so many people, whether it's on the far right or, in this case, on the far left, more young adults embracing socialism, there really is a desire for a sense of meaning that our secular culture lacks.

[00:31:43] Yes, that was such a great way to start this conversation, Richard. Just props to you because you cut to the heart of the issue, and I wasn't frankly even thinking about that. I went into political analysis mode when I read this article. But, Richard, you're right. That is very much people, what you said, people are looking for hope in a world that feels hopeless and increasingly chaotic. I think we can all say this world looks very different than it did even five, ten years ago.

[00:32:10] And there is one answer. There is a hope to be found in our Lord and Savior Jesus and in our future. But I do sometimes think this misguided idea that the government is the solution and answer to every problem we ever have, it's frustrating because when you look at something like charitable giving in the United States, who is caring for pregnant women in need?

[00:32:40] Who is caring for the orphan, the widow? Who is caring for refugees here? Or you look at any nonprofit, they're predominantly Christian. They're predominantly Christian and Catholic. And the charitable giving is far and above outweighed on the right. And the left would prefer to just outsource all of that to the government,

[00:33:03] and including their socialist agenda is essentially to allow the government to be their father, their god, their provider, their protector. And that is such a dangerous, dangerous role for the government. And, you know, I was a little surprised, most surprising aspects, because it was not surprising that New York, the most liberal bastion of America, is electing socialists. What is surprising is how many young people showed up.

[00:33:31] The actual amount of voters, that was truly surprising. Yeah, definitely. Well, we'll continue discussing this when we get back from a short break, so don't go anywhere.

[00:33:42] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. So basically, I think we can say that young people are looking for truth in all the wrong places,

[00:34:09] because they're identifying problems and are experiencing problems. And we'll talk about this even more in the next hour, just in terms of some of the affordability. That's kind of a buzzword, but it really is a real problem for so many young adults, especially with, like, homeownership prices increasing and even how much it costs to buy a car and all these traditional markers of adulthood or the American dream, that young adults who are graduating college and in their 20s are all of a sudden,

[00:34:37] it seems so out of reach, and they feel very disenfranchised. And so, Chelsea, you're so right. Like, there are so many problems that are real, but it's all about where somebody looks for the solution, isn't it? Yes, it is. And this idea of, you know, the left, the core party differences,

[00:35:02] or I should say philosophical differences between the left and the right are we both acknowledge systems are broken. The right conservative response says we'll work to fix them, work forward incrementally to fix them. The left philosophically says revolution. If the system is broken, you must break the system down and start anew.

[00:35:25] And I think that that's a winning argument for young people who maybe haven't had a ton of decades of politics back and forth to see that we ebb and we flow. And, you know, sometimes our day-to-day lives aren't always truly impacted by the government. And, you know, they are short-sighted, and the left provides quick results, right, whereas the right solutions take time, take effort, and are calculated.

[00:35:54] And that's a harder solution to sell for people who want, you know, immediate satisfaction. The system's broken rage against it. I also think the left and the socialist message, and the left has always done this. So when I think of the Love Wins movement as just a prime example, they have a way of tapping into inerrant human compassion that the right does not.

[00:36:21] And so they shroud lies to sell their message, but they pretend it's a message of compassion. The abortion movement is a great example of that. The compassion is we don't want women to hurt. We want women to be helped. The result is death. And so they're not offering a strong solution, but they're packaging it very well to a young generation. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's such a good point.

[00:36:46] And we were talking about education and the need for that with regard to the pro-life movement. But, Richard, really, we need this now because the impulse to say, okay, let's, you know, revolution, let's have the government fix all of these real problems that people are facing. That's not new, but it just hasn't worked in the past, and yet people's memory is short, or either they haven't really studied history or they're looking at it through false interpretations and lenses.

[00:37:16] And so, so much of what we have to do, and I know that you think about this as a historian, is really understand, hey, some things work and some things just don't. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, it's one of those things where we all know that our nation was born of a revolution, the American Revolution, but that revolution was one that was really pitted against the idea of lawlessness.

[00:37:44] And, you know, as we know in Scripture, God is a God of order. He is not a God of anarchy and chaos. And the founding fathers, when they built this country, they wanted an orderly system. They insisted they were not overthrowing government. They were overthrowing a specific oppressive regime, but replacing it with a government that enforced the rule of law.

[00:38:09] And for so long in our country, the word mob was a bad word. It was seen as a term that connoted chaos and ultimately would be a violation of human rights, of property, of life itself. And unfortunately, we've allowed the left to make the concept of a mob a legitimate thing, even if they might not use the term mob. It is it's become a legitimate thing.

[00:38:39] And people have kind of taken this idea of dissent and free speech and and made it a justification for the mob. And I think in this sense, you know, the founding fathers did not want to remove all ills all at once. They felt that that would actually create a more tyrannical situation. And I think, you know, we haven't been able to pass that along to this current generation. Yeah. Yeah. Very well said. Well, it's important to educate people. Go ahead, Chelsea.

[00:39:09] I'd love to get your thoughts. I should say, you know, Richard, you're making me think of of an additional component of this. And it's that when the solution is the government, it is always a little surprising to me. The lack of self-preservation among socialists, because you're really putting a whole lot of your trust, your livelihood, your protection at stake in someone outside of a system outside of yourself, outside of your family, outside of your home. And that's a really dangerous thing to do.

[00:39:38] We know throughout history, obviously. But it always surprised me there's this idea that the government is a white horse. But what happens as the government's change or bad actors are infiltrated or the government just does what it does best, which is make everything slower and more expensive. And I don't understand that disconnect, that disassociation. But maybe they don't think much past the rallies and the battle cries.

[00:40:05] You know, that is a really interesting observation, Chelsea, and from both of you, because we know that really at the core of this ideology, like everybody has to make sense of the world. And so there has to be somebody to blame for the problems, and then there has to be some form of solution for that. And so when you go really dig into the socialist ideology, it does have its roots in Marxism.

[00:40:31] And so there is an oppressor class that is constantly the bad guy. But what happens when you have the revolution, which is supposed to bring salvation, and then you get new people in power, eventually they become the oppressor class. And so it just kind of creates this cycle over and over again instead of true solution. So I think a lot of this, it really does come down to, like, how are we raising kids to understand themselves and their relation to reality

[00:41:01] and raising people who can, you know, have a healthy method of understanding why there are certain things that are wrong in the world and what we can do about it, and sometimes what we can't do about it. But we've only got a couple minutes left. And then, Richard, I know you're saying goodbye for this hour, so I'd love to get some final thoughts from you. Well, you know, a quote came to mind, and it was actually from a man that liberals celebrate,

[00:41:27] Robert Kennedy, the father, not the current cabinet member. But he basically said that he talked about welfare, and he said that there's nothing compassionate about putting somebody on a government role where, you know, instead of getting care that, you know, treats him as an individual, instead it's care that treats him as a number.

[00:41:51] And I think, you know, he was able to articulate that in a way that liberals at the time could understand and agree. And I think that we can take, you know, we can definitely take lessons in that as somebody, a man who is lionized by the left. If he could articulate that, hopefully we can as well. Yeah, that's such a great point. Well, Richard, thanks so much for being on the roundtable today. We're coming up to a break.

[00:42:19] Chelsea and I will continue to discuss several issues joined by Ethan Watson here in just a few moments. And we're going to continue this discussion and kind of keep it going for a little bit, because there is a great article in The Wall Street Journal that I'm excited to discuss. Capitalism gets a bum rap. And it all centers on a vintage refrigerator that went viral online, so it's kind of a fun angle to talk about. But we'll continue discussing really a lot of the misconceptions that young people have around capitalism

[00:42:48] and socialism and understanding what those terms even mean. Because, surprise, surprise, a lot of times when people are throwing these economic terms around, they don't actually understand what they're talking about. So hopefully we can help in that regard. But we're going to a break. Stay with us. We'll be right back after this. There are so many big stories happening, literally everywhere.

[00:43:17] So much information. Documents released. Grand jury testimony. Political accusations and claims on all sides. How in the world can any of us keep up? How do we weed out the truly important from the merely sensational? None of us can do it alone. I've been in media for more than 45 years. I've trained my skills, and yet even with that, I am glad for the more than 50-year track record of the team here at Point of View.

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[00:44:45] This is Point of View. And now, Liberty McCartney. Welcome back to Point of View. And the roundtable had a great first hour. If you missed it, you can go to pointofview.net, and you can listen to the first hour in the podcast format, and I encourage you to do that. But this hour, Chelsea Yeoman is still on the line with us, joined by Ethan Watson.

[00:45:15] It's great to have you back on the show, Ethan. It's great to be back. Thank you so much for having me. So just as a reminder for people, Ethan is currently a law student, and he is vice president of ASU, Federalist Society and Republican Law Association, doing a lot of great work writing and talking about important issues. So I'm excited to get your perspective this hour, Ethan, and continue our conversation, Chelsea.

[00:45:40] But we were talking about why so many people are falling for socialism right at the end of the last hour. So to kind of continue that, there's a column from the Wall Street Journal that we've linked at pointofview.net. But capitalism gets a bum rap. And one of the things that we really do need to start with are definitions.

[00:45:59] This is something that I've been learning, relearning, I would say, in my kids' education journey, is that, okay, whenever you're trying to have a productive discussion about something, there are certain steps you need to go through. And a great place to start in any conversation is defining your terms, saying, what do you mean when you say that? And so I think even in just normal conversation with people, whether we're agreeing or disagreeing, we can say, let's define our terms here.

[00:46:25] So we see that a lot of people, according to a recent Gallup poll, are not really having a positive view of capitalism, especially younger Americans. We'll get more into some of those details later in the show. But what you see is when young people are defining capitalism, they're really not talking about the economic system, just the strict definition. They're thinking the status quo.

[00:46:49] Well, the status quo is actually encumbered by a lot of regulation that's not in line with a truly free market. And so it causes a lot of people to falsely blame capitalism for things that aren't really related to it or maybe aren't problems. So case in point, and I'll just go through this real quick and then get comments on it. But there was a viral video on social media of a 1958 GE refrigerator.

[00:47:17] And in the comments as this column documents, there were so many comments saying basically that capitalism is why we don't build things like we did in 1950s. Now, maybe you agree with that. I think in a lot of cases that's true. But when you're talking about refrigerators specifically, you have so many people today who have refrigerators that back in the 1950s didn't even have them at all. In 1950, only about 20% of homes or 20% of homes didn't even have a refrigerator.

[00:47:46] And when you look at a similar model of a refrigerator that was in a Sears catalog in 1958, it was $400, which equals around $4,600 today. And before the show, I did a quick Google search. I looked at Home Depot. It's just kind of like the average running rate for refrigerators. And it's a lot less than that. So more people have refrigerators today. They are a lot more affordable than they used to be.

[00:48:13] But it just is kind of an example, Ethan, of how quickly we can be carried along by really a lie and swept up in that and then falsely blame something that has actually brought us a lot of prosperity as a nation. Certainly. I mean, I think, first of all, young people have some valid gripes with the status quo. But it's a mistake to blame capitalism as an ideology for those gripes.

[00:48:40] You're absolutely right that sort of government putting their fingers in the pie has caused a lot of the economic inefficiencies that we notice today from rent control housing to OSHA regulations to environmental regulations. Those are all burdensome obstacles for business and the free allocation of capital that make things more expensive and make products worse, generally speaking.

[00:49:03] So I think that it's absolutely awful that young people think that socialism, flat-out state-controlled central plan economy, is the answer. But I also think that we need to be honest with ourselves about capitalism's flaws because it is not a perfect system by far. I think Irving Fristoll said this in his book, Two Cheers for Capitalism the Best, when he said that capitalism is great for making people wealthy. It's the best system we know of that does that. But it doesn't make any statements about morality.

[00:49:32] And so I think we as conservatives, we as Christians, really need to be honest with ourselves about the moral shortcomings of capitalism, right? Straight-up capitalism would say that someone's willing to pay for a good or service, and they ought to be able to do that. I don't believe that. If someone wants to buy a prostitute or buy cocaine or buy heroin, I don't think that they should be allowed to do that.

[00:49:57] And so I think capitalism within guardrails, ensuring that it serves the goals of the nation, broadly speaking, very limited government intervention, that's the way to go. But I'm not saying socialism by any means is efficient because we all know central planning just does not work. There's no way one central committee can understand how people want to spend their money well enough to make that work. Yeah, those are such good points, Ethan. And Chelsea, again, it goes back to what is our underlying understanding of reality?

[00:50:24] Because we are, and we'll talk about some of these here in a few more minutes, but there are so many problems that are truly facing Gen Z. But where are we looking for the solution? And I think people who put all of their hope in one economic system or another are really missing, like, the fundamental baseline of morality or understanding of truth that you have to have to actually address those issues. That's so true.

[00:50:53] And I also think of this in terms of the system is appearing broken and people are feeling it. I mean, between inflation and the stock market up and down and the wars worldwide, there is an idea that is taking root, that it's currently not working. But there's a lack of a strong solution on the horizon.

[00:51:21] And so I think it's really incumbent upon our elected officials who we elect to help fix that system. And they need to be offering a very clear and succinct direction. That's what's missing. You know, the left, we talked last hour about the socialist agenda and how truly a powerful hold that it has on the young voters on the left. There's not a lot of moderates anymore on the left in the younger generation, according to that article.

[00:51:47] But for the right to be saying we're not sticking our heads in the sand, we're not pretending that gas isn't high and inflation is exorbitant right now, we need to address that head on. And it is an indictment, I think, a little bit on the leadership of the Republican Party, because there's a lot of gas fighting going on and blame shifting going on. And instead, just to say, like, here's the plan, here's the solution, clearly and succinctly communicate that.

[00:52:14] I do think it's going to help with the capitalism PR crisis. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think really what we have to do is have these nuanced conversations. And so, Ethan, you did such a good job with that. And Chelsea, I appreciate your comments, too, because you can say, all right, look, let's define our terms here. When you are just defining capitalism as the status quo in which there are a lot of problems, you really are shortchanging an economic system that has brought prosperity to people all around the world.

[00:52:44] But it's not a perfect system. And so we also need to define how we address some of those other problems in society, as Ethan articulated. And then we also need to look at history and say, OK, the people who are having a gripe with how the system is working, but they're turning to socialism. Maybe we need to bring some perspective in there as well so we can look at the problems and we need to address them head on.

[00:53:06] But bring in that perspective and that nuance and that truth to say, let's actually have a productive conversation about this instead of swinging totally to one side or the other, depending on one economic system or one political ideology or another to solve all of our problems, because that's just not going to do it. But we'll keep discussing Gen Z and the economic crisis when we get back.

[00:53:39] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson. Dr. Leonard Sachs holds a Ph.D. in psychology and has been a family doctor for nearly 34 years. He said he never saw a correlation between politics and parenting until now. He said left to center parents were no better and no worse than parents on average than right of center parents. He has now documented that children of politically liberal parents are more likely to suffer from depression and anxiety and a lack of sense of life meaning and have substance abuse issues.

[00:54:08] He's noted that over the past decade, there's been an increase in what he calls permissive parents. They have been persuaded to carry out more gentle parenting because they don't want to be controlling to their children. In most cases, the children become the authority while parents try to be patient, calm and punishment free. His story from an article in the Institute for Family Studies illustrates this only so well. A mom brought her six-year-old daughter into the office with a fever and sore throat. He asked the girl to open her mouth and say, ah.

[00:54:38] She shook her head and clenched her mouth. He asked the mom for help. Instead, the mother merely replied, her body, her choice. NYU professor Jonathan Haidt has been on my radio program to talk about his book, The Coddling of the American Mind. He believes that the real reason that left of center kids are more likely to be depressed compared to right of center kids is that left of center kids have been taught to catastrophize events to assume the worst, while right of center kids have been taught to be more optimistic.

[00:55:06] You know, what is taught at home and what is consumed on social media is having a negative impact on the minds and mental states of children and adolescents. Political views and mental health seem to be correlated more than ever. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view. Go deeper on topics like you just heard by visiting pointofview.net.

[00:55:34] That's pointofview.net. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Another article we posted for you at pointofview.net from Fox News. Gen Z is working hard, but the economy is putting the American dream out of reach for many. So we're just talking about the need for nuance and really understanding where people are coming from.

[00:55:58] Because let's just be honest, for all of history, people have blamed the kids these days. In fact, in preparation for Christopher Nolan's Odyssey that's coming out, I'm going to go see it next week. I'm trying to like reread it really quick. And something that I haven't picked up on before is that there are so many comments about, wow, this young man really stands out. He's not like the other lazy young men or children these days or young people.

[00:56:27] And so even in Homer's epics going back so many years, they were complaining about the young people. So we know that that's a thing. We know that that happens. But the reality is labor force participation among Americans age 25 to 54 is near its highest that it has been in decades.

[00:56:51] So when people and this is, of course, this article is in response to some claims from the White House Press Secretary, Caroline Levitt, who suggested that a lot of Gen Z's frustration stem from them being lazy. But when you look at the data, that just doesn't really pan out. Now, again, to bring in the nuance like that doesn't discount other things we've talked about on Point of View, which regarding young men specifically, there is kind of a joblessness crisis. But Gen Zers as a whole are working really hard. But a lot of things are changing.

[00:57:21] The economy just isn't the same way it was a few decades ago. So, Ethan, you're in that cohort. So we talked about the need to really also look at where the system is failing. So I'd love to get your perspective on this. Yeah, you know, these comments from Caroline Levitt were really interesting. And it really resonates with me, especially after hearing what Chelsea had to say in a previous segment about sort of the capitalism PR crisis. These kinds of comments are exactly why there is a PR crisis for capitalism.

[00:57:49] Socialism has plenty of bad PR out there. I mean, just look at Cuba or Venezuela or any of the other places where people are made absolutely miserable by central planning. But capitalism has a problem with this, too. And it's words like, you know, Caroline Levitt. It's when you have guys like Vivek saying, well, the businesses demand talent and Americans aren't smart enough. So we need to fly in a bunch of H-1Bs to get the job done. That kind of language is why even people on the right side are starting to have questions with capitalism.

[00:58:17] When instead, you know, that makes that makes items of industry and true capitalists look like Scrooge McDuck sitting on a giant pile of cash when they really should be generous and virtuous aristocrats. Right. That's sort of how I would like to see people that have made it in our economy. But words like Caroline Levitt saying that, oh, it's a laziness thing.

[00:58:41] That just drives resentment and drives young people towards socialism because they don't feel like there's any room to discuss the issues when that's the language that we use. And so I think I think people who are making policy need to be attentive and realistic with the fact that, look, Gen Z is working really hard. And the economic conditions that were made that made the baby boomers, Gen X, fabulously wealthy, they're not here anymore.

[00:59:08] And there's a plethora of reasons as to why those are the case. But it's not it's not the avocado toast and it's not the Starbucks coffee and it's not flexible work either. It's it's actually it's government intervention. Right. It's Biden era policies that tripled interest rates. I think I read this article or doubled interest rate. It's those kinds of policies that are making it harder for my generation. So I think we need to be very cognizant of that. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Interest rates have tripled on things like cars and mortgages.

[00:59:38] And it's funny that you mentioned avocado toast because, Chelsea, I remember as a millennial, that's something that we were blamed for. And, you know, if millennials because it was it's against the younger generation, millennials and now it's Gen Z. Before long, it'll be Gen Alpha. If they would just stop, you know, spending money on these things.

[00:59:55] And I did a podcast episode recently with a writer about the same issue who is also a millennial saying, look, the like we grew up having to side hustle like so many people, even with college degrees. It's like they're working a side gig or they're they're having multiple jobs just to try to make ends meet. And it's not that they don't want to meet milestones like buying a house or starting a family.

[01:00:19] But it just feels so out of reach because you do have really even though you followed the success sequence that was supposedly supposed to unlock the American dream, like go to college, get a degree. You know, the things that work for parents and grandparents, it's like, wait a second, I still can't afford certain things. So I do think that we have to keep that reality in mind.

[01:00:41] Yes, I also think there's a bit of a phenomenon related to the I'll call them boomers, the boomer generation in that, you know, most previous generations were retired by, you know, 60 to 65. And this fledgling economy is also impacting now boomers ability to retire because what they thought they were going to need to be able to successfully retire. They they need more now.

[01:01:09] So they're holding on to their jobs. And I have heard in the marketplace, you know, because of a lack of retirement, it's not allowing younger generations to move up the corporate ladder in those leadership positions, into those upper management level positions where it's more lucrative. There might be more equity included in their compensation packages. That's that's an interesting phenomenon.

[01:01:33] And I'm sure plays a role in this in this labor force that looks like an anomaly compared to past labor forces. You know, that's so interesting, Chelsea. And it just reminds me how everything is connected. So, you know, Ethan, we're talking about boomers and whether or not they're able to retire, how that affects younger people. But let's bring the fertility crisis into this. So many people want to start a family. But statistically, we're looking at the numbers for millennial and Gen Z and statistically many won't.

[01:02:03] And a lot of the reason for that is that buying just single family homes is becoming harder and harder. And so but then when you aren't reproducing as a society, what do you have? You have an aging society. And so then that creates more of a burden on the younger people who are around because now they're having to support that aging society, too. So really, it's a problem that I think young people are feeling very acutely right now.

[01:02:30] But it is having effects and everywhere and is so interconnected when you start to have these kinds of economic issues. Certainly. I mean, the housing costs, I think, are the most pernicious because that's so tied to a family. I'm 24. I'm a student. I live in a two bedroom apartment with a roommate. I'm not going to raise kids in that environment. And that's, you know, that'll change when I get out of law school. But for a lot of my friends, that's just their reality.

[01:02:59] I have a pretty, pretty large circle of close guy friends. None of them are married. None of them are even close to buying a house. And, you know, then I looked to my parents' generation where it was less uncommon for people to have houses at age 23, be married at 23, 24. And so that's really bad because we need young families. We need people having a lot of children. We have a demographic crisis, especially given the state of Social Security right now.

[01:03:29] Like, that's something that Gen Z is hanging to. And it doesn't look like we're going to get any of it or very little of it at all. So we're already working to support a sort of geriatric, heavy demographic pyramid. And you couple that with sort of these obstacles to having families. And I think we're in for a really rough time. And it's going to get bad for us, but it's going to get bad for the people older than us, too.

[01:03:52] And so we need to really sort of take a step back and not say it's just lazy young people and start figuring out what's going on structurally here and what can we do to fix it. Yeah. Yeah. So important. Yeah. Chelsea, just a couple of minutes before we go to a break.

[01:04:08] But when you do have the housing crisis that I think does play a real factor in young couples wanting to start families, and yet you do want to promote families, like, how do you hold that in balance and promote families and encourage people to start families when you also are recognizing these economic struggles?

[01:04:54] Sure. And so I think there could be some guardrails placed to help protect the housing market from things like that. But there's a whole way. There's so many ways to boil the ocean here. Yes. Yes. It's something that is very important for us to talk about. So I encourage people to, again, go to pointofview.net, read these articles. We talked about the Democratic Socialists of America winning primaries in New York and how many young people are supporting that.

[01:05:24] We talked about the capitalism getting a bad rap and people not really understanding what that means from the Wall Street Journal. But also this article from Fox News where Gen Z is working really hard. And you can look at the labor statistics to prove that. So these lines that, again, the young people are just lazy or they don't know how to manage their money, that's not telling the story of what the challenges are that young people are actually facing.

[01:05:47] And so if we want to see a more prosperous economy and society and want to see more young people getting married and starting families, we have to address these issues. And you can start to do that by getting educated, sharing this podcast after you listen to the live show with people, sharing the articles that we've discussed. And we have more to discuss when we get back from the short break. Have you ever met a child you knew would do great things?

[01:06:14] They displayed remarkable imagination, understanding and a zest for learning. Now imagine someone takes that child and instead of fostering their potential with a real education, they feed them nothing but lies. You know, that scenario isn't so far from reality. From a young age, Americans are fed a consistent stream of distorted facts from the secular indoctrination they receive in many public schools to the biases presented as fact in many colleges and universities,

[01:06:43] to the barrage of misinformation from the mainstream media and the lack of moral grounding in our society. It's not that Americans aren't capable of understanding the truth. It's that they aren't exposed to it enough. You can expose more Americans to the truth when you give to Point of View, where listeners receive facts, perspective and biblical truth they don't get from society. As long as we have truth, we have hope.

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[01:07:38] You are listening to Point of View. The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now, here again is Liberty McCarter. All right, we've been talking a lot about the economy. I want to switch gears a little bit and talk about something that I could go on about forever, but that is the literacy crisis.

[01:08:05] So there's an article we posted that is responding to a longer essay that was published recently in The Atlantic entitled The Age of Reading is Over. And really what the evidence is showing us is that we are moving from a literate society to a post-literate society. There are so many facets that go into this,

[01:08:29] everything from the rise of the short-form video as the predominant form of information online and on social media, the predecessor, of course, being television itself. So shortened attention spans, the expectation of needing to be entertained. Here's one little quote from that Atlantic article that's included here in this article that we've posted.

[01:08:55] Reading has become, has come to be seen as extraneous, even to some of the best educated members of society. Margaret Rennix, Harvard's assistant director for humanities and social sciences support, told me she'd spoken with a student who was struggling to read a book written in old English. What was the book? A Clockwork Orange, which was published in 1962.

[01:09:19] And the student, the Harvard student, used ChatGPT to translate the book into easier language. So, man, I mean, if we don't have the ability or the attention span to read an entire book, and if you ask college professors around the nation, they're saying an increasing amount of students coming into even Ivy Leagues don't have that,

[01:09:41] then how are we ever going to have the attention span to be able to understand and debate ideas that are critical for a free society? So this is concerning to me, not just because I love to read books for fun, but because it really concerns me about the direction of our nation. But, Chelsea, what do you think about this? Well, I think it's not shocking. We look around and see, you know, we almost never see anybody without a cell phone in their hand scrolling.

[01:10:11] And so people are consuming information, but in a very different way, with a different methodology, more visual, less reading. And it's also indicative of a broader crisis in our education system, which is, in many respects, certain school districts are far more interested in DEI programming and ideological programming of children than they are of actually teaching necessities. And so it starts there.

[01:10:41] I think it starts with our educational system, and we think of our own children and how pivotal and paramount it is to get them in the right school that's focused on not just the right values, our Christian worldview being instilled, but a classical education is a great education, even a secular classical education, because it's rooted in logic. It's rooted in this idea of teaching analysis and thought process over methodology of memorization and rote memory.

[01:11:12] So there are educational ways I think we could rectify this, but it takes intentionality. It takes planning as a parent. It takes a generation being willing to invest in their children's education if it's private or homeschooling. So it's time investment. But, no, it does not shock me that literacy is at an all-time low in the United States right now because our education system, I think, has hit a low. Yeah, and that's such a good point. You know, I recently did a podcast episode on the new requirements for public schools in Texas

[01:11:40] regarding the English program, and it went viral because some biblical passages were included on the list. But to me, the bigger news was the fact that there is actually a really solid revamped reading program that's going to be implemented in the state of Texas where children will be required to read multiple whole books, where the status quo has become in far too many school districts to read short passages on a screen, which then that is contributing to this crisis. But, Ethan, you're in law school.

[01:12:09] Look, Chelsea and Ethan, you both have been there. I haven't been, but I assume that requires a lot of reading. And so what do you – are you seeing this at all, Ethan, in regards to classmates or just, you know, being raised in the digital age? Like, how has this impacted people's ability to really study deeply? Oh, goodness. I mean, I even see them myself. I'm almost ashamed to admit. Like, law school is a lot of reading, long-winded judicial opinions,

[01:12:39] and sometimes it can get a little dry, and I catch myself, you know, relying on an AI summary if the hours get late and the assignments come due. But I'd like to shed some light on why this is happening, because I don't think it's just, again, lazy old Gen Z that's the culprit here. Part of it is what higher education, college, even law school has become, because it's not just about producing, like, intelligent, virtuous people. It's a jobs program.

[01:13:06] And it used to be if you come out of college with a degree and good grades, that's all you need to land a job. But from the minute I stepped into my law school, literally, like, weeks into my first year, I was recruiting for my second summer internship, which is determinative of the job I get full-time. And to be competitive for the top jobs, you do not just need good grades, but you also need leadership. You need oftentimes pro bono or volunteer work. You need club experience.

[01:13:33] And so I think for a lot of students, myself included, something has to get cut if we want to maintain our sanity in this sort of jobs hustle that we're in. And so, unfortunately, that does mean corners get cut on the class reading sometimes. And I think that is sort of a product of the way we run our higher education. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try for it anyways. And so I think a lot of students like me, I'm on summer break right now. I've got a lot of free time. I'm in what I like to call a season of leisure.

[01:14:04] Now is when you need to buckle down and keep your mind sharp by reading great books, studying great ideas because if you want to get involved in politics and you want to be dangerous, you've got to know things. You've got to know how to articulate them. So, look, it's tough out there. It's tough to juggle everything you need to do to land a decent job these days. But when you find yourself with a season of rest, don't just go back to brain rotting and scrolling and consuming mindless content.

[01:14:31] You know, Duolingo some Latin or read Dante's Inferno or even Stephen King, and you'll be a lot sharper and you'll be grateful for it. That's my two cents. Yeah, absolutely. And I love that perspective because I read another essay, I think it was last year, but it was really on kind of the rat race that education has become.

[01:14:51] And it's so true because, you know, you were raised in a system that had to produce that kind of busyness. And so it's so true that it's not just about going and learning, but, you know, you've got to get involved in this thing and you've got to join this club. And it's just like it's become too much. And the thing that I see, and I don't know if you see this too, Chelsea,

[01:15:18] and I'm somebody who it's like I want my kids to have varied experiences and all kinds of opportunities, try different extracurriculars. But there's so much pressure on kids even before college at younger and younger ages where they are so busy and it becomes kind of a rat race to even get into college in the first place. And so it seems to me that our priorities in many ways are upside down where it's like, and again, it's the school system, like you're saying.

[01:15:44] And we're not teaching kids to actually do the deep thinking oftentimes that they need to do or the kind of character development that they need. But we are making them so busy from such a young age. And then that's why a lot of times there is a struggle to like slow down or to really think deeply because it's about checking all these boxes. And it just doesn't seem like a fair way to be setting kids up for success. But I don't know if you have any thoughts on that that's going into kind of a parenting rant.

[01:16:14] But this kind of busyness and culture, like I think it begins so young now. Oh, it truly does. From someone who is raising three very active, fun boys, the push for sports and activities, it's real and requires a lot of intentionality and boundaries and a willingness to say no to some things that are good but maybe not best. It also starts at home.

[01:16:40] I think a love for reading starts in our family rooms around the kitchen table with books our kids are interested in. What is it they want to read? What do they find interesting? I always tell my boys, if you ever want to buy a book, I'll buy it for you. And we will go to Barnes & Noble and they'll just pick out a couple here or there. And it just instills that there's a level of autonomy for them in that. And they get to choose what they're interested in. And stories are powerful. There are adventures. There's escapism involved.

[01:17:09] There's excitement or mystery. And so it's a great way to learn about our world and tap into this part, I think, of humanity that is going to be a lost art if we don't get a hold of it. Yeah, that's so true and so good. And that's something that we can start as parents and as just, you know, whoever that we have the opportunity to influence. And, Ethan, I love what you're saying. It's like we live in reality, right? So we'd love to see certain things of whatever system we're in change, but we have to operate with the time that we are given.

[01:17:38] But, like you said, when you do have that opportunity, whether it's before bed or you're on summer break, you know, I can make a decision and set an example if I have children to say, am I going to sit on my phone and scroll? Or am I going to pick up a book and show that that's actually a good thing and make that normalize that culture? Because we are heading into or already in a post-literate society where that kind of site is going to become less and less common unless we're intentional about it.

[01:18:07] And I do think it's important because I think it really does develop our ability to think deeply about things, and we have to be able to do that if we want to live in a free society. We have more to discuss, but we have another break. So after these messages, we'll be back on point of view.

[01:18:22] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. All right. Wanted to do something a little bit special for the last segment.

[01:18:46] So first, let me tell you about the Know Why podcast episode that was released yesterday, talking about why so many members of Gen Z feel like they lack a sense of meaning or purpose. And this was 45% of Gen Z, according to a recent Gallup poll that said they lacked a sense of meaning or purpose in their life. What I noticed is that a lot of that was related to jobs.

[01:19:11] And so many young adults were really relying on what they did for pay to provide a sense of meaning and purpose. But many felt that those kinds of jobs were out of reach, either because they were too difficult or they did not pay enough. And obviously, we've been talking about the very real economic struggles that young adults are facing. So I wanted to bring in a special guest, POV, point of view producer, Steve Miller, into the studio to talk about this with us, this segment.

[01:19:38] One reason is because, Steve, in the past on Know Why podcast, we've talked about jobs and whether you can follow your calling, find a sense of meaning in different kinds of jobs. And I know you've held a variety of positions over the course of your life. And you are actually about to transition into yet another role. And so I thought it'd also be a good time for you to tell us about that. So thanks for coming into the studio. Well, thank you, Liberty. It's it's really an honor to be here. I don't say that lightly.

[01:20:08] It is. And it's been an honor to be here at point of view for nine years, producing and occasionally sitting across the table from you, sometimes with Kirby. And it's yes, I'm going back into teaching, which is what I did for several years before this. It's exciting. I'm going to be teaching speech and drama and theology at a local school here in Dallas. And I know when we talked about before, we talked about calling and vocation.

[01:20:37] There were all these things about how can you balance what you love, the vocation versus avocation. I really wish I had a magic wand. I just wave it, you know. But as you know, I'm an actor. That's my undergrad is in is in drama. I still do that film, TV, theater, voice work. I do what I can. But I've never, ever made a living at it. So I found several things to do, as you mentioned. They've kept me busy, kept bread on the table. And I've been married now for 32 years.

[01:21:06] And my wife and I have done OK and raised two kids. But it's not been easy. You know, neither one of us. We both we both made that financially indefensible choice of getting undergraduate degrees in drama. But there it is. Look, and now you're going to be having the opportunity to at least teach drama. So, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But when you've had, you know, different professional roles, are you in your experience?

[01:21:34] Because talk to us because we're the next generation roundtable. And I'll give Chelsea and Ethan a chance to chime in here in a minute, too. But can you find meaning? Because this is a real concern for so many people of here's what I would love to do. And yet it doesn't work for me to do that for pay. The whole do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life. Like, that's just not reality for a lot of people. No, it's not. And I have I take a little issue with that statement.

[01:22:04] I get where that statement's going. But when we say do what we love and you'll never work a day in your life, what we're doing is we're demeaning the actual idea of work. Because work itself can be a beautiful, wonderful, life-giving, fulfilling thing. But you've got to find – I think you've got to find that area where what you love to do meets a need. It's not always a perfect match.

[01:22:29] One of the things I say is look for ways that you can serve others. Like, what is needed out there? I mean it's a truism that when we tend to get discouraged and inward-looking, find someone else to pay more attention to than yourself, which is a biblical, you know, dictum anyway. And find something you can do that will meet somebody else's needs.

[01:22:59] It could look like any number of things. Just know that you may spend your whole life doing both vocation and avocation. I would say really modulate what it is you think your successful life needs to look like. Guys, don't think that you have to absolutely be the one making the most money if you're married. There's just absolutely no biblical basis for that. Know that the two of you are probably going to have to work together to make this thing happen. And that's okay.

[01:23:29] Be on the same page. This is, again, directed toward married people. But even if you're single, know that you may need to balance a lot of things in life. Yeah, such good advice. Chelsea, you and I have both had the privilege of working with Steve for a long time here in the point-of-view context. So I'd love to get any comments or questions from you before we wrap up the hour. Well, Steve, it has been a joy and an honor to do point-of-view with you around for, gosh, 10 years now. I think I started 10 or 11 years ago.

[01:23:59] And you've certainly made an impact. You've been an incredible voice. You hear our voices on the radio, but our voices don't get amplified without Steve. You make it all happen. And you've always brought such a colorful, fun, exciting, interesting perspective behind the scenes. And I just have been so grateful to be able to work with you. Thank you. Thank you, Chelsea. Right back at you. I miss you being in here in the studio. Since you moved down to Austin, we don't see you anymore, but it's okay.

[01:24:28] Yeah, so thankful for Chelsea's voice still able to join us. And, Ethan, you know, you're right in that Gen Z demographic, again, like we've been discussing, that so many people are dealing with kind of that meaning crisis. So I'd love to get your thoughts, too, on just, you know, are you able to find a sense of meaning at all by looking at the work and the study that you're doing and framing that in a lens of service? You know, I can in a lot of ways.

[01:24:58] But, you know, at least in my undergrad, let's use that as an example, right? I studied accounting. I'm not, like, deeply morally convicted about debits and credits and EBITDA and things like that. But what I am convicted about is my ability to be a provider and my ability to use the resources that work I do allows me to do. So that work allows me to take trips and it allows me to, you know, enjoy leisure time with friends and think about my health. And so those are things that I am convicted about.

[01:25:26] And so that's a good way to think about your job if you're not, you know, explicitly in a serving others, making the world a better place, you know, digging wells in Africa type job. So that's something to keep in mind as well. But, Steve, I had a question for you. You know, I'm sort of figuring out that the path of success is very often a crooked one. And you've bounced around a little bit, you know, from teaching to this and now back to teaching. How do you know when you've landed where you're supposed to be? And then how do you know when it's time to make a change?

[01:25:59] You know, for one thing, it's in the context of community. Get some people, you know, a group of guys, a group of both guys and girls, church community, church family that you can bounce things off of. That's always helpful. Really bring it before God and seek to know what it is you love to do. And I will say this. Beware of thinking there will be one time when finally I've found it, right? This is the place.

[01:26:29] There may never be a place where you feel a complete peace about it. I say you should feel a peace about it. But sometimes when we say follow the peace, we think that means follow the happiness and follow the tranquility. And it's not always the same thing. So seek the thing that you love to do and know that that can shift from time to time. I hope that's helpful.

[01:26:56] Yeah, I think that is very wise, Steve, and a great place for us to wrap up today because we are out of time. And anyway, so thanks for coming into the studio. And, of course, thank you for, again, producing Point of View. And we're very happy to bring Derek on board. And he will be sitting in your seat, Steve, and producing Point of View. And so the mission goes on, but we're certainly going to miss you here at Point of View. Going to miss you guys too. But, yeah, thank you. Thank you for that reminder, Steve.

[01:27:25] And, again, we live in seasons, right? Like, you know, life is always changing. Maybe our professional roles are always changing. But God is constant. And the truth is what we rely on and what we want to encourage you to rely on here at Point of View. So thank you again, Steve. Thank you, Megan. Thank you, Derek, for all producing the show. Thanks to everybody for listening to Point of View. And don't forget to tune in tomorrow.

[01:27:52] Many years ago they began saying that we live in the information age. Well, today there is so much information coming at us from every direction. The hardest thing is to discern which issues are really important. And how can I make a positive impact without wasting my time trying to figure out accurate information? Let me give you a suggestion to help with that. Visit pointofview.net. Look at the tabs across the top.

[01:28:21] Find the one named Viewpoints. Kirby Anderson and others on our team are constantly watching for news to identify those issues that you really need to know about. They boil things down in a brief summary. And then you can decide if it's something on which you want to learn more and get involved. Again, when you go to pointofview.net, click on Viewpoints, you'll see exactly what I mean. You'll see the issues that we are covering right now.

[01:28:48] And when you like what you see, I honestly think you will, you can slide on over, enter your email, and get them automatically sent to your inbox each day. That's it. Take a minute now. Be informed. pointofview.net. Click on Viewpoints. Point of View is produced by Point of View Ministries.