Point of View January 28, 2025 – Hour 1 : Uncommon Courage

[00:00:04] Across America, Live, this is Point of View. Anna Dexter. Thank you very much for joining me, ladies and gentlemen. As I was driving to the studio today, I had the interesting experience of listening to President Trump's first White House press conference,

[00:00:32] actually conducted by his press secretary. Her name is Caroline Levitt, and she's 27 years old. She's the youngest press secretary that the White House has ever had. She is definitely an energetic person, which I think you have to be, to keep up with the things that, at least in his first week and a half, this president has been doing.

[00:00:54] She's very enthusiastic, and she seemed to have a lot of information and be able to answer the questions the press was asking. She's certainly, she's picking up the job that was held by President Biden's press secretary, Corrine Jean-Pierre. And she seems to have more energy than Corrine Jean-Pierre had. And probably there are quite a few other differences between them. We will find out.

[00:01:21] But it certainly was an enjoyable press conference because I liked most of the things that she said her boss is doing. Since she seems to be up to that task of keeping up with him. Although I don't know if anyone really is. A little bit later in the program, we are going to be joined in studio by Keisha Russell. She is senior counsel with First Liberty Institute. You've probably heard her if you listen on Fridays. She comes in sometimes in co-hosts. And she's written a book.

[00:01:51] It's just out this week. It's called Uncommon Courage. We're going to talk about some First Liberty cases that she's been a part of recently. And also her new book. We're going to cover a bit of that. Although I think we'll do it more in depth later with Kirby Anderson. Because I know he wants to talk with her about it too. And he's not in the studio today. So I'm glad I get to be here to talk with you. Also later in the program, Jason Isaac will join us.

[00:02:19] And he's been a guest before a couple of times. He's the senior manager and distinguished fellow of Life Powered at the Texas Public Policy Institute. He's also founder and CEO of the American Energy Institute. And we're going to talk about unleashing American energy and how is that going to happen now that things have changed a bit with regard to climate policy. There was a piece in the Wall Street Journal today. I didn't post it because I saw it as I was running out the door.

[00:02:47] But it has to do with what is everybody's view of climate policy, climate change, global warming. It almost seems like those that were such huge existential problems not that long ago now, people don't even care about it that much. I may be exaggerating there. But we're going to talk with Jason Isaac about all that.

[00:03:08] Also, we're going to get into some of the ways in which this administration is trying to eliminate the sort of clear from government diversity, equity, equity and inclusion policies in favor of going with more merit based government policy, merit based culture, merit based society. And so, you know, how do we do that? Well, you do it piece by piece in a sense.

[00:03:37] So we're just we can't possibly take on all the pieces of that agenda. But we're going to take on a couple of them today. One of them actually the White House is taking them on. One of them has to do with the military. And you probably heard the news that we have a new defense secretary. He's been sworn in. Pete Hegseth was actually approved. I think it was Friday night. And he's been sworn in as secretary of defense. And along with that, President Trump has issued some four executive orders.

[00:04:07] One of them has to do with transgender troops. And he's really the Washington Post puts it that Trump order targets these troops and targets radical gender ideology. I would say it does target radical gender ideology. As far as the troops, we're not exactly sure what the policy will be with regard to transgender troops as of yet.

[00:04:32] He President Trump barred transgender individuals from joining the military before in his first administration. And President Biden reversed that and welcomed transgender troops. So there are many in the military now. Will they be expelled? Will we just not get more new ones? What will be the policy? There will be some policy changes, though.

[00:04:54] And this executive order basically says that the U.S. military has been afflicted with radical gender ideology to appease activists. And many mental and physical health conditions are incompatible with active duty, which is very true. Sometimes if you're overweight, you're not compatible. If you've got other health problems, you're not compatible.

[00:05:16] And now I think what we're going toward is the fact that if you are a transgender individual, you're not compatible with military service. But that isn't laid out in black and white in the Washington Post article. The order, though, the Post says calls for the Pentagon to adopt some policies on the medical standards required for military service. So we'll find out what those are.

[00:05:42] And, you know, it kind of has to do with how you identify yourself versus who you are biologically. And I think there's going to be a lot more emphasis under this administration placed on what people are biologically and the fact that they're – and we know as believers, biblical believers, that there are only two sexes.

[00:06:05] So I think rather than expanding that out and allowing people to identify as the gender they feel that they are, we're going to go back to some truth and reality and things like that. And I'm excited to have also my guest to talk about it today, Keisha Russell, because her book is about truth. And I think we can basically take that topic and cover a lot of other things that we are discussing today with it.

[00:06:33] But back to the Trump order, there are some other orders that have to do with the military that he issued. He issued a total of four executive orders. And one of them has to do with the troops that were expelled because of the COVID vaccine. People that refused to take the vaccine were expelled from the military. Many of these folks were actually represented by First Liberty Institute.

[00:07:00] And the president has issued an order allowing the military to reinstate these people. So I think when Keisha Russell comes in, we can talk about that because First Liberty has had a great hand in defending these folks. And now they're really home free with the executive order. Then another one of these executive orders has to do with next generation missile defense.

[00:07:25] And I've seen news reports just in the last couple of days about an iron dome, which is what Israel has to protect it from missiles. We helped develop that. But actually having one here in the United States, which would have to cover a lot more territory. But getting a missile, you know, Star Wars, which people made fun of, was something President Reagan wanted the United States to have, some kind of missile defense that protects us from incoming missiles.

[00:07:54] And the world is getting more and more dangerous. So we need that. And that was an executive order number three by President Trump. And then the fourth one, well, one of them has to do with transgender ideology. The other one has to do with diversity, equity, inclusion as a whole. Again, the military is merit-based. And the government employment also should be, according to Donald Trump.

[00:08:21] So that's going to be what we're going to expect moving forward. Ladies and gentlemen, we are talking about the issue of DEI. And I'm going to continue that with a story about a doctor here in the state of Texas. You won't want to miss that. And remember that Keisha Russell will join me in studio a little bit later. And she's got a great new book. You'll want to hear about that. We'll be back right after this.

[00:08:58] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson. Pornography and porn sites were on the topic of the Supreme Court earlier this month. The key question was whether requiring age verification on a porn site violates the First Amendment. Free Speech Coalition v. Paxton is a case currently before the High Court. Texas passed a law requiring porn purveyors to start using reasonable age verification methods. Other states, like Arkansas, Louisiana, Virginia, and Utah, have passed similar porn site age laws.

[00:09:27] The Texas brief explains that the law does not prevent adults from viewing pornography. Instead, the law requires online pornographers to take commercially reasonable steps to ensure that their customers are not children. The lead challenger in this case is the Free Speech Coalition. It is described as an adult entertainment industry group that argued that age verification is too great a burden on First Amendment rights. They also raised concerns about privacy and security risk.

[00:09:54] Having a 21st century Supreme Court ruling on pornography is important. The court's ruling in pornography and obscenity in Miller v. California came in 1973. Texas cites a case of Ginsburg v. New York that dealt with the selling of magazines to minors, but that decision came down in 1968. Technology has changed the world in the last two decades. Young people have access to pornography through computers and smartphones.

[00:10:19] In fact, the most recent survey found that a clear majority of children have a smartphone by age 11. Here are two points I believe the justices should consider. First, children should be protected from the scourge of pornography. We do know the dangers. Second, digital age verification is becoming commonplace. It places no significant burden on First Amendment rights. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:46] For a free booklet on a biblical view of anti-Semitism, go to viewpoints.info slash antisemitism. Viewpoints.info slash antisemitism. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Welcome back to Point of View. I'm so glad you're with us today. I posted a few articles, and one of them is Ethan Haim.

[00:11:14] We took on the Federal Leviathan, and we won. This is out of the Free Press. Emily Yoffe actually wrote the article, and she's written a couple of articles about this particular story that's been ongoing for a couple of years. But Ethan Haim is a doctor. He's a surgeon in the state of Texas, and he was facing a decade in federal prison for blowing the whistle about gender surgery for minors.

[00:11:39] But Trump recently dismissed his case, so life is going to be a little bit different than he thought. He did blow the whistle on this Texas Children's Hospital, and this happened when he was newly out of medical training. He was just out of his residency. They were continuing to transition kids even when they said they weren't going to do it at this particular hospital, and it's illegal in Texas.

[00:12:08] Especially now, the legislature has passed a bill banning and barring transgender surgeries and gender mutilating surgeries for kids. But before that, even then, just before Ethan Haim began sort of blowing the whistle on this Texas hospital, our Attorney General, Ken Paxton, had looked so deeply into the issue.

[00:12:36] He said, made this statement and declared it officially that in Texas, transgender surgeries are child abuse. And so these were being practiced by this hospital. It had been told not to, and they continued to do it and actually lied about it.

[00:12:54] So when this Texas surgeon began providing information and evidence that it was being done, he redacted the names of all of the patients on whom it was being done, so that to protect their privacy and certainly protect himself from HIPAA violations. But he still became the target of the Biden Department of Justice.

[00:13:19] They indicted him for allegedly violating patient privacy laws. And as I said, he was at the beginning of his career. He and his wife were expecting a baby at the time. They now have a two-year-old. That was two years ago. But what happened was that the feds showed up at his door on the day that he was supposed to – well, actually, I think he did end up graduating from his residency.

[00:13:48] They showed up. He knew better than to engage or talk with them, but his wife is a U.S. attorney in a certain region of Texas. And she had advised him not to talk to these guys that issued, I guess, some kind of subpoena or something. So he didn't talk to them, but they gave her a letter. And that's – since then, he's been fighting in the courts.

[00:14:18] He revealed these – he revealed the records of these patients from his hospital that he had worked at with this redacted identifying information about the patients. He had also caught the hospital in a bald-faced lie about the very existence of the program. And the treatments on these kids were continuing and expanding, yet the hospital was denying they were doing it.

[00:14:43] Medical personnel spoke of not noting these treatments on medical records in order to try to hide it to escape authorities and not to leave a paper trail. But Ethan Hain – so he thought that he was going to be facing jail. Children with multiple problems are often referred for these medical transitions, even though that's not really what's going to fix their problem.

[00:15:09] It's just kind of become fashionable to use these kinds of treatments, but it's not fashionable for the kids. They were being harmed, and this doctor said he had to stop it. But he gave the evidence to Chris Ruffo. And Chris Ruffo then had the names redacted, but he began publishing the stories without Dr. Hain's name in them. A little bit later, his name became public.

[00:15:38] And, again, he was set to graduate from his residency, and his wife was there. They came, and they basically charged him. But the charge had to do with HIPAA violations. It had to do with privacy of these patients. But what Texas did then, the next year, one year later from the time they dropped by Dr. Hain's house,

[00:16:04] was that the Texas legislature finally, because I was very getting discouraged about Texas legislature not banning transgender surgeries at the legislative level. They just kept on getting presented with bills year after year but could never bring themselves to vote on that ban.

[00:16:30] But finally, they did, and that was in 2023. And so now Texas has this ban on mutilating surgeries. But it was too late. They were still going after Dr. Hain. And his attorney, Marcella Burke, said that she and his other lawyers began to ask everyone they knew with any connection to the Trump administration, once Donald Trump came into office, to make dismissal of this case a priority.

[00:17:00] I saw a video about this case that was actually produced, at least it involved, Simone Gold, who is one of those frontline doctors that you saw during the COVID years. And she's gotten on board with this cause, too. So I saw this video. It showed a lot of the graphic parts of the surgeries that are done on children, which is absolutely disgusting,

[00:17:25] the things that are built, the things that are taken away organ-wise for these children, their life afterwards if they detransition or even if they retain the gender that they've had a surgery to get. It's all very difficult for them. Their bodies don't work the way they're supposed to anymore. So it's really criminal. I mean, I think Ken Paxton's description of it being child abuse was apt.

[00:17:54] And so it was good, number one, when Texas banned it. And number two, when the Trump administration got wind of Dr. Hain's situation, Missouri Senator Josh Hawley actually also got involved in this lobbying to get the charges against Dr. Hain dismissed. And they were. President Trump issued that dismissal of the charges.

[00:18:21] And a man who thought he was perhaps going to spend the next 10 years incarcerated and does have a lot of – he says he's already raised $1.3 million in legal bills, but he says he's got maybe 20 years of continuing to pay for his legal fees on this issue. But he says he'd do it again in a heartbeat because of Ethan Hain. The world is a better place for children, his wife, Andrea Hain, says.

[00:18:51] She says the world is a better place for children, including our daughter, who's two years old now. There is no greater gift we can give her than the knowledge that her daddy is a hero. Her daddy, Dr. Hain, is a hero. He could have lost his medical career. He could have lost his freedom. He could have lost watching his daughter for her first 10 years of her life. And fortunately, some common sense is beginning to reign with regard to gender and gender identity in this White House.

[00:19:21] It filtered all the way down to the state I'm sitting in, the state of Texas. But I think it's going to filter back up as people see this story. And I know many already have. So, I mean, three cheers, number one, for I think the president for starting to deal with this horrible, awful ideology, transgender ideology. It's not compassionate to cater to it.

[00:19:49] It's compassionate to call it out for what it is and to protect children from medical professionals, psychological professionals who look at them and say, oh, you're troubled. Let's see if the problem isn't that you're in the wrong gender. That's what's been basically happening. And we really can't allow it to continue.

[00:20:11] And we actually, it's wonderful to see that now there might be some backup from Washington, D.C., rather than opposition from Washington, D.C., which is what we had in the previous administration. So, you know, lying and lawbreaking apparently was a good thing for them because it hid this kind of activity that was going on. So you had doctors, you had personnel at this medical facility in Texas doing those things.

[00:20:41] But it wasn't good. It wasn't right. And there are many, many children who now are suffering with a lifelong medical care that they're going to have to have and also just deformities. And some of them, it usually doesn't cure what ails you, even though it's been tattered as a cure for what ails you. So that's just sort of a happy story that's personal that we can take from what's going on right now.

[00:21:11] It seems like they're clearing out employees from the federal government. And I know that's going to hurt some people. But the pain is also going to result in some good results like this. Well, next up, again, as I said, I'll be joined by Keisha Russell. I guess it'll be by phone, not in studio. But you won't want to miss her discussion of her new book. It almost seems like we live in a different world from many people in positions of authority. They say men can be women and women men.

[00:21:40] People are prosecuted differently or not at all, depending on their politics. Criminals are more valued and rewarded than law-abiding citizens. It's so overwhelming, so demoralizing. You feel like giving up. But we can't. We shouldn't. We must not. As Winston Churchill said to Britain in the darkest days of World War II, Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never. Never yield to force.

[00:22:09] Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. And that's what we say to you today. This is not a time to give in, but to step up and join Point of View in providing clarity in the chaos. We can't do it alone. But together, with God's help, we will overcome the darkness. Invest in biblical clarity today at pointofview.net or call 1-800-347-5151.

[00:22:39] Pointofview.net and 800-347-5151. Point of View will continue after this. You are listening to Point of View.

[00:23:02] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now, here again is Penna Dexter. Welcome back to Point of View. Point of View, I'm very excited to interview someone who co-hosts Point of View with us sometimes on Fridays. Her name is Keisha Russell, and she's senior counsel with First Liberty Institute. She's got a new book out.

[00:23:32] This is, I think, her first week sort of publicizing the book, and I'm so grateful that we get to help do that. Keisha, thanks for joining me. Thanks for having me on, Penna. Well, it's good to have you. Before we get to your book, I want to ask you about a couple of cases, because we've heard that President Trump has now issued an executive order that is going to reinstate the people in the military who were thrown out

[00:24:01] because they wouldn't get the COVID vaccine. You've been working on getting them that freedom. You really already won that for them. So it's kind of a gravy, I guess, that President Trump has issued this, correct? Oh, absolutely. I mean, First Liberty, as you mentioned, we defended a couple dozen Navy SEALs back during 2021 or so

[00:24:23] when they were being threatened with discharge, dishonorable discharge, for not getting the COVID vaccine. And we did end up winning. We were one of the only groups that succeeded on those lawsuits against the Department of Defense. So for us, it's great, you know, and we're so excited that we finally have an administration that actually supports service members and their beliefs. Yes, absolutely. It's great. I think you'll still have work to do, though.

[00:24:54] There's such a culture in there. It's going to take a little bit of time to clear it out and change things. But, Keisha, I also want to ask you about a case that I know you've been commenting on. And this is in Connecticut where a teacher, and you were a teacher. We'll talk about that a little bit as we get to your book. But where this teacher had just a cross posted on her wall next to her desk for many years, and then suddenly it was a problem. Tell us about it.

[00:25:22] Yeah, Marisol Castro is a client we recently signed, and we are representing her along with one of the best law firms in the world, WilmerHale. And she was, for her entire teaching career, she's always had a crucifix in her classroom, in her personal workspace. But for the past 10 years, she's had this particular crucifix in this particular school district.

[00:25:46] And all of a sudden in December, we understand an employee complained by email about her having this crucifix in the class. And the district basically threatened her and said, if you don't take it down, you know, you're going to get suspended without pay. She didn't do that. And then they tried to, quote, negotiate with her and tell her, well, you can put it under the desk by your knees. How's that? And that, of course, is just completely offensive and just disgusting.

[00:26:16] And so she tried to do it, and then she cried and clapped and said she just could not do that. So she put the cross back. And finally they, you know, suspended her, this time with pay. And that's where we are right now. First Liberty and WilmerHale have written a, I think, very strong demand letter to the school district trying to warn them that they do not want to continue harassing this woman. It's really harassment. She's being paid, yet she can't teach.

[00:26:45] It seems like it's a misuse of taxpayer money also. But I don't know why people dig in on things like this, but they do, don't they? They do. And a lot of people ask me this. I feel like I've answered this question a bunch of times. But, you know, for me as a Christian, I consider, you know, all of these kinds of issues spiritual in some respect, right? Because that's what the Bible tells us. And the other point is that I think the left has had so much control over our country in the last couple of years

[00:27:15] that they are just completely blatantly disrespectful and discriminatory against religions, especially Christians. And I think that is what we're seeing. I think a lot of our school districts are some of the cesspools of leftist ideology, and you're seeing that in not only what's coming out with the students, but also how they're treating Marisol Castro right now. Keisha, I'm so excited about your book.

[00:27:38] You were nice enough to give me a copy just before Christmastime in anticipation of the fact that it was coming out. And this is the week. It's actually hitting the bookstores and Amazon and everywhere else. It's called Uncommon Courage, Defending Truth and Freedom While There is Still Time. And I know that Kirby wants to do, like, a full, long interview with you on the book. But I get to do just some today.

[00:28:07] So I'm very happy to be able to do this. I'm glad that you were able to. But one obvious question, because even just looking at the title, Defending Truth and Freedom While There is Still Time, do you think post-election with the results we had, we have more time than we might have had to be successful in defending truth and freedom? Yeah, but four years is not that long. And I think Donald Trump understands that, and that's why you're seeing this flurry of activity so early.

[00:28:34] We have a window to try and repair the culture. And we need to be very diligent, very intentional about that, because what almost happened in November is very scary. And we as conservatives and Christians and people who love our country really need to take it seriously, what we're going to do in order to repair the minds of the Americans that have been poisoned with the just awful leftist ideology.

[00:29:05] So my old boss, Marlon Maddox, who founded this radio program, used to say that conservatives, and Christian conservatives especially, would, when we win victories, we sit back, we rest on it, we go back and kind of get in our cocoons and focus on our families. Not a bad thing, but we still need to stay vigilant, and we do. I'm glad that First Liberty is, and I'm glad that you are encouraging people, Keisha, in the book.

[00:29:33] You start the book with a Bible verse, 1 Peter 3, 15 to 16. Always be ready to make your defense to anyone who demands from you an accounting for the hope that is in you. Yet do it with gentleness and respect. Now, this is the truth of the gospel, and it sounds like it's sort of an underlying principle for your entire book, isn't it? Oh, it is, and it's pretty explicit. I mean, I go through the foundation of our country,

[00:30:03] why it is unquestionably based on Christian principles, and why the founders chose it, even though all the founders weren't necessarily Christians, but they were all educated in the Bible, and we know that, right? So I think there are so many people who don't understand this and take their freedom for granted and don't understand that if you don't understand your rights, then somebody else can take them from you. So one of the ways, and you talk about this in the introduction, which in the introduction is just wonderful,

[00:30:33] and you named your introduction Testify. Okay. So that's your way of saying, I guess, testify of what Christ has done, but there's more to testify to, isn't there? Absolutely. So we know we overcome the enemy with the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony, right? So every time I tell somebody what God has done for me, that tells people who God is and what he can do for them.

[00:30:58] And so that's why I started the introduction with that idea, like, this is who I am, and this is what God has done for me, and this is why I believe what I believe. But even deeper, I think we are required to go farther than that. We're required to know why we believe in marriage between a man and a woman only, why we believe that a man can't become a woman and vice versa, why we believe in some of these things that leftists think are, you know, bigoted and whatever it is.

[00:31:28] Like, there are some very concrete reasons for that, and they are practical, and they make sense. And it's important that we have the boldness, because the Bible says, as the righteous are as bold as a lion, that we have that within us, but we have confidence because we know that what we believe is the truth, and we should never back down from anyone telling us the otherwise. Keisha, how did you come to this? Because defending freedom and truth is your life's work at this point.

[00:31:58] And I know that before even going to law school, you were a teacher. So how did you, you know, what caused the shift? Was it the actual practice of being a teacher that helped you decide to go into constitutional law? No, in fact, you know, as God usually does, he kind of just led me very slowly down this path where I was just kind of following, you know, each step, but not under no circumstances that I ever imagined that I would be doing what I'm doing now,

[00:32:28] even when I became a teacher. And even more, even when I went to law school, when I first started, I had no idea that this is where I would end up. But all those things did change me in the sense that teaching showed me how devoid our culture really is in some respects, how little respect we give to education, how little respect we even give to our own children. And that kind of propelled me to wanting to be a lawyer and to make a bigger difference and to make a bigger impact.

[00:32:57] But I knew that I needed more education, essentially, in, you know, public service, in the law, in the Constitution. And that was my main goal when I went to law school. So after a year in law school, I did get involved in what's called the Center for the Study of Law and Religion at Emory. And that's where I was introduced to this constitution, to constitutional law, and specifically religious liberty, free speech, these kinds of areas.

[00:33:26] So it was a gradual progression and growth. And I just can't tell you how amazed I am to be here. We're so glad that you are here and that you're with me today. I'm thrilled to be able to interview you on the new book, Uncommon Courage by Keisha Russell. We'll be back with more right after this.

[00:33:55] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Welcome back to Point of View. My guest is Keisha Russell. Senior Counsel with First Liberty Institute. I wish she was in studio so I could see her pretty face and give her a hug. I'm so excited about the new book. I think it's going to be an important one, Keisha. And, you know, you've gone to law school. You say you went to Emory University Law School. You've worked on religious liberty cases with First Liberty Institute.

[00:34:24] You've clerked for a prominent judge on the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals. That was just last spring and summer, I think. That's the second highest only to the Supreme Court. That was a great experience, I know, for you. But before that, as we said, you were a teacher. But these weren't necessarily Christian kids. And I imagine that there was something about them that caused you to want to, I don't know, sow into the culture more. Am I correct?

[00:34:54] Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. That's just spot on. Again, serving those students, and I think all of them were way behind. So I taught fourth and fifth grade special education. And most of them, when I, you know, met them, were reading at first and second grade levels. Now, by the time they left my room, most of them were on grade level. So, you know, I was able to see multiple years of growth in one year as a first-year teacher.

[00:35:23] And I think that just inspired me to really make a difference in the culture, in the community, and not just with students. I was always looking at them as future leaders in our country. And it's up to us to educate them and make sure that they can be useful for our country and for themselves, really, so that, you know, the government doesn't have to take care of them and, you know, that they become an asset.

[00:35:48] But, and that was what propelled me really to say, you know, this is a much broader problem than just what's going on in one Georgia school district, right? This is beyond that. You know, your title of your book has the word truth in it, defending truth. And this is a, I would say, a concept that's, it's been diminished over the last previous decade.

[00:36:16] As a matter of fact, our, here at Point of View, we've got our Outlook, a beautiful newsletter. I guess you call it a newsletter. It's more of a magazine that comes to our supporters. And the one for February is Outlook or Anchored to the Truth. The battle for truth is intensifying. How do we navigate a world that is proclaiming different versions of the truth? And that is true. There are different versions of the truth.

[00:36:41] We used to, like when I went to school, you know, 100 years ago, there was things that were true and there were things that were not true. But truth becomes more malleable in, in our culture. It is more malleable today. So what do we do with people that don't have, and especially kids or people in the culture that don't have a clear concept of the truth? How do we give them that? How do we impart that to them?

[00:37:09] I think we have to start with, like, their sense of self. Like, when I think about those students, I had to, before I could even teach them anything, really, I had to make them want to see more, want to have more, want to be more. I made them talk about, well, what do you want in your life? What do you want to be? What do you want to do? Do you want to do some of the things you see these people doing in your neighborhood right now? Do you want more than that?

[00:37:31] And once people have a clear sort of trajectory and purpose, I think they will almost naturally crave more spiritually, emotionally, etc. I think it kind of comes with that territory. And obviously, you can't force people to have a belief in God. I don't know if you can really get to the place where you want to know truth and you're willing to completely bow down to it until you know God.

[00:37:59] Because if you don't, you're just going to be really bowing to your desires. And that's, I think, the ideas that the culture has pressed into the culture. So, that's, I think, your desires. Your desires trump truth a lot of times. And, I mean, we're seeing that so much in the identity politics that we've suffered through the last, well, I would say the last four years has just been on steroids.

[00:38:29] But even, you know, well before that for decades, building and growing where people can define themselves apart from God. And as you said, you can't force people to believe in God.

[00:38:42] But I think that if you have people that are speaking to the culture, not only through education like you were, but the media and also even in entertainment, newspapers and, you know, online news outlets, commentaries, to help people understand that God is the author of truth. And he's also the author of my identity.

[00:39:09] And so, you know, the sooner I come to realize that the better my life is going to be. Absolutely. And it's about submission. And that's the thing the culture can't stand. They hate when Christians make it plain that they do not have control over everything and they can't have everything they want. And that's the reason why when you say, no, a man does not belong in a woman's prison or in a woman's bathroom just because he demands it.

[00:39:38] They say, oh, you're inciting violence because the only way in which they can interact with you is if they try to push this false compassion. And really, there's really no substance to any of their arguments. And so it's important that for us we remember that our job is to always speak truth, to live in truth and to demand that the government do so as well. I think allowing people to live according to a lie, as Solzhenitsyn said, live not by lies.

[00:40:08] Yes. It's actually not compassionate at all. In fact, it's exactly it's hostile. Yeah, I think it's a pretty wicked thing to do to somebody personally, especially a child. And to convince someone that they can have something that they can never have to be something that they can never be. That is bound to create misery. And and there's just no way around that.

[00:40:34] I don't I don't understand the ideology, but I understand the source of it because the Bible tells us the source. Right. The selfishness and the hate of God, the hate of truth. And frankly, and simply the hating hearing the word. No, you can't have everything that you want. OK, freedom. That's another concept you deal with throughout the book. And we want it. But it's not no limits.

[00:41:03] It's in fact, to have no limits is really bondage, isn't it? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I talk about that at length because I think it's important for people to understand. And I and I give the example of when I was teaching, you know, I spent like the first month culture building in my classroom, meaning create an environment that students wanted to be in and that they felt that they helped create. And so I would say, do you want me to not have rules? Do you want me to let people talk to you however they want? Do you want me to you know?

[00:41:31] And we walked through why we needed rules. And I made my students help me create the rules for the class so that they felt like they had ownership in them and they understood why they were obeying them. And ultimately, we would talk about how much are you going to learn if there are no rules in this class? And so I had to let those kids come to that conclusion. They were in fourth and fifth grade and they got it.

[00:41:55] So I think that's ultimately what the culture needs to understand and embrace and recognize that we live in the greatest country in the world for a reason. And it's not because we let everybody do whatever they want. It's because we have balance and balance is important. Keisha, I'm excited about this book. We actually don't have much more time here to get into it. And that's why I'm glad that you're actually in the same town we are.

[00:42:22] I hope you will come in and do a full hour on it. I mean, I've got things in here about fearing God, honor the golden rule part one and part two, live with purpose, which you mentioned earlier. And then just taking us all the way through to things that the Christian believer, person that loves truth and freedom can do to change the culture. And so I'm very excited to get into it with you. I hope you will come back.

[00:42:51] But I want to thank you for letting us do the interview here on your first week. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. That's Keisha Russell. Her book is Uncommon Courage, Defending Truth and Freedom While There Is Still Time. You can get a hold of it. It's out this week. In 19th century London, two towering historical figures did battle, not with guns and bombs, but words and ideas.

[00:43:20] London was home to Karl Marx, the father of communism, and legendary Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon. London was in many ways the center of the world economically, militarily, and intellectually. Marx sought to destroy religion, the family, and everything the Bible supports. Spurgeon stood against him, warning of socialism's dangers. Spurgeon understood Christianity is not just religious truth.

[00:43:48] It is truth for all of life. Where do you find men with that kind of wisdom to stand against darkness today? Get the light you need on today's most pressing issues delivered to your inbox when you sign up for the Viewpoints commentary at pointofview.net slash signup. Every weekday in less than two minutes, you'll learn how to be a person of light to stand against darkness in our time.

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