Point of View January 24, 2025 – Hour 1 : Weekend Edition

[00:00:04] Across America, Live, this is Point of View, Kirby Anderson. Thank you for joining me, it is a Friday weekend edition and we're going to be covering quite a bit. Of course we've had an inauguration, we have a March for Life, we're going to give you an update on some of the religious liberty issues.

[00:00:30] The deportations have begun. Yesterday I think we were up to 1300 people have been arrested, but now we have pictures of some that are actually being loaded into an airplane. And it's not exactly a high class one, it's a military airplane where you sit on a bench and being taken back to your country of origin. We'll get into that. Of course we talked yesterday about some of the executive orders, we'll get into some others today like DEI,

[00:00:55] also the question about pardons and much much more. So lots to cover, and if we don't get to all of it today, we'll cover it on Monday because there is certainly a lot to cover as a very busy week has actually unfolded. We have in studio with us Liberty McCarter, who is of course a writer with Point of View. She is the president at Hold Us Up, the Know Why podcast. If you're not familiar with that, we certainly want to encourage you to go there. And also Jeff Mateer, who is the executive vice president, chief legal officer for First Liberty Institute.

[00:01:25] We always like to start off, Jeff, with a couple of your stories and one or two of them should be concerning because I probably have now more people asking me about our pastor there in Ohio as we oftentimes had people asking about Coach Kennedy. And so Chris Avell now has been found guilty of criminal charges. Please tell me this can't be true.

[00:01:50] I know. It's almost, I mean, it's almost unbelievable, right? And that this would be a story from a different time in a different place, right? Whether it's Germany or Russia, somewhere like that, that you've got the state coming in and seizing a pastor because he's doing something that the state doesn't like. But no, this is Bryan, Ohio.

[00:02:18] So I'm sure we've got listeners in Ohio, but a little town closest main city is Toledo. So think of, I guess that's Northwest, Northwest Ohio. And Pastor Avell has a church that's down on the, the, the, the center, the square of, of, of, of the town and city of Bryan, Ohio. And as, as part of, he, his ministry, I mean, it's not First Baptist. It's not First Methodist.

[00:02:48] He ministers to lower income people generally. And he saw a need in his city. And the need was simply, there were people who were homeless, who were sleeping on the streets in, I mean, and, and not an exaggeration this week, sub zero temperatures. And so he had the idea that, look, you know, I'm just going to open up my church 24 hours. And these people need temporary housing.

[00:03:16] And I'm going to let them come in and stay and get out of the cold. And one would think he should be getting an award from the city. But instead, the mayor and her hunchman have decided to go after this pastor and go after this church and really try to shut them down and get them out of their downtown. Because for a lot of reasons, it's, you know, from her point of view, this is the mayor. It's not in, in what she envisions for their downtown.

[00:03:45] And it's almost, it's like the person who wants to ignore that a problem exists. And maybe if we ignore that we have homeless people, that they'll just go away somewhere. But as we all know, that that's not the solution to this, that, that, that, especially in the Northeast and post, this is one of those post-industrial towns, which is actually great. I mean, it's actually quite, I mean, it's actually quite lovely. And you could see the history there and everything else.

[00:04:10] But nevertheless, the mayor, you know, has, has sent out, she sent out the, you know, the fire inspector, she sent out the police, which is ironic because the police have referred people to dad's place. So the same police who are sending people to dad's place are now, they're saying you're violating the law by, by, by allowing people to come, come in out of the cold. And so his criminal trial was, was, I mean, I could go on and on. We could spend probably all two hours on this because it's so upsetting.

[00:04:39] And his criminal trial, the, the, the criminal trial was a couple of weeks ago. We were encouraged because the judge after the end of the criminal trial did not issue a ruling and wanted more time. And so we thought, well, I mean, maybe, you know, maybe something's happening. Well, no, nothing was happening. I think he just wanted to get by, get past the holidays. And so this week was the sentence, was, was the verdict and the sentencing.

[00:05:08] And Pastor Revell was, was, was fined and was sentenced to 60 days in jail. Now they, he suspended the jail sentence to give us the opportunity to appeal the decision and, and which we will. And we, we anticipate that the attorney general of Ohio will, will support us in that appeal. He's already supported us in the case. And I would just tell, I would tell the listeners, I mean, I know we talk about prayer requests, pray, pray for Pastor Revell.

[00:05:35] Pray, pray for his wife, Lisa, pray for the people there. You know, Chris is strong, but, and he's not going to let people go out on the street and freeze because some civil magistrate is saying, you know, you, and, and, and, and this is what, I mean, this is what's ridiculous.

[00:05:56] And he's saying, well, why is the city doing what the city says and what this judge accepted was they don't have, like in a lot of older buildings do not have, they're not up to fire code and have all the latest sprinklers. But some of the other buildings nearby don't know the other, the homeless shelter in town doesn't have it. The apartments, the motels in town. I mean, this is an older town.

[00:06:23] And again, look, maybe the city, maybe there are things that this church could do and, and to, to, to lessen that. But the immediate need right now is we all know in, in Texas, we're experiencing cold weather. Well, take what we're experiencing here, twenties, thirties. Well, in Brown, Ohio, it was literally in single digits and at night negative.

[00:06:44] And I mean, so it's more secure for these people to have them on the street than rather in a building that doesn't have a sprinkler system that yes, we, I get in the world of perfection that yes, ideally, if you're a building, a new building, you have to have sprinklers. This is an older building. There are people there. They're monitoring it. There's never been a fire. Where do they want the homeless people to go? Well, they want them out of their city as I'm sure is what they want.

[00:07:13] You know, because that's, that's not part of, of, of, of their vision. But again, it's just threatening what we, you know, the, the, the, the word that we've kind of talked about is criminalizing compassion. And it's, it's this trend now that the state knows better than the church and that, and that you have the state coming in and saying, you know, we're not going to let you do what you, what you do. Just, oh, if you want to have your service, that's okay. Just have your service.

[00:07:35] But once you actually start engaging your community, and we've seen it, we've got cases in Florida and Colorado and Texas, Arizona, same sort of things. No, none of our pastors have been sentenced to jail yet in those cases. But, but, but, but, but, but, so as a prayer request, please, please, please, please pray for, for Pastor Evel. Let me just mention real quickly that the first article is Pastor Found Guilty. When we come back, we'll talk briefly about another one. A teacher ordered to remove a crucifix.

[00:08:02] Having taught there for 30 years, we'll just terminate you if you keep a cross on the wall there. So we'll get into that in just a minute. I know Liberty has some update on the March for Life that took place today. And, of course, we'll get into all sorts of things that have been taking place this week. And as Jeff mentioned, if you go to First Liberty, you'll see this is not the only place where there is the criminalization of compassion.

[00:08:28] There are others that want to distribute food, clothing, blankets, whatever it might be. And they also find themselves in a difficult situation. But Pastor Evel is cited as guilty of a criminal charge. Didn't think I'd ever say that. We'll be right back.

[00:08:58] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson. Although Congress needs to reevaluate various programs like Social Security, it is unlikely to do so for two reasons. First, it would be politically unwise to even modify any of the so-called entitlement programs. It is the third rail of American politics. Touch it and you die. But the other reason isn't political. It's cultural. Americans have an expectation of retiring at age 65.

[00:09:26] Morgan Helsall has a chart in his book, The Psychology of Money, that illustrates this. The labor force participation rate for men age 65 plus was 78% in 1880 and only dropped to 58% by 1930. But Social Security changed all that, and today it's only 27%. Social Security wasn't intended to provide a pension for retirement. When Ida May Fuller cashed in the first Social Security check in 1940, it was for $22.

[00:09:53] Even before Social Security was implemented, many in the Western world began to believe retirement begins at age 65. Germany was the first nation to adopt an old age insurance program. This was 70 years before President Roosevelt proposed the Social Security system we have today. Now, some brave politicians have suggested we might at least raise the age of retirement. As Morgan Helsall points out, it was not until the 1980s that the idea that everyone deserves

[00:10:21] and should have a dignified retirement took hold. But he also reminds us that the 401k didn't exist until 1978, and the Roth IRA was not implemented until 1998. Congress needs to address the financial concerns about the future of Social Security, but politics and cultural expectations make it hard to do so. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view. For a free booklet on a biblical view of genetic engineering,

[00:10:50] go to viewpoints.info slash geneticengineering. viewpoints.info slash geneticengineering. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Weekend edition, if you would like to join the conversation a little bit later, 1-800-351-1212. Liberty McCarter, as well as Jeff Mateer. And I might just mention the second article here we have just entitled, A Teacher Ordered to Remove Crucifix.

[00:11:19] Here is a teacher who's been teaching there for 32 years in Connecticut. I used to live in Connecticut, and so I know where this is, in New Britain, Connecticut. And there is a good quote there from Keisha Russell. She has her book coming out right away, so we're going to be doing an interview with her. But, again, this one is a puzzler because, as I think I remember, Jeff, that cross has been on the wall for a long time.

[00:11:43] But all of a sudden now, if you don't take this down, we're going to fire you after 32 years of being an excellent teacher. Yeah, I mean, I think this one is an opportunity to educate school officials on, you know, the law. I mean, there's a case called Kennedy v. Bremerton, and I love the letter that we did.

[00:12:06] We're working with actually one of the largest law firms in the world, Wilmer Hale, who's coming in as our volunteer attorneys on the case. And they added this line, and it's a great line in the letter. It said, by the way, do you know our co-counsel? So not only is Kennedy controlling, but our co-counsel, First Liberty, that's who won that case at the Supreme Court. So you might read that case.

[00:12:33] I believe, of all things, Keisha, I think as we speak, is in a meeting with the school district right now. So hopefully they will review the Kennedy case and come to their senses. But, again, this is the principle that if you allow a teacher to have an area, and in this case in the school in Connecticut, which I believe is a middle school, they allow teachers to put in – they give them freedom to decorate their classrooms.

[00:13:02] And so there are teachers who – I can't believe they would still have this up as bad as they played this year. But there are teachers of the New England Patriots up. Of course, you know, here in Texas, I don't know if I were a teacher, I'd have my cowboy thing up. I think my son actually probably does have a cowboy thing up in his classroom in Fort Worth. There's a teacher has a – I don't know why you'd have a picture of Wonder Woman. And I don't know if it's a male or a female has a picture of Wonder Woman.

[00:13:28] Somebody has a picture of Wonder Woman, Baby Yoda, a picture of the Mona Lisa, which I thought was interesting. But this teacher for, again, I believe it's over 10 years, she's a devout Catholic and very faithful. And she has – her image that she's chosen to put up is crucifix. So Jesus on the cross. And we're not aware of any complaints.

[00:13:55] But even if there were, then the school district would have to have a policy that we're not going to have teachers have anything on the walls. But once – you can't say what – Baby Yoda is okay but Jesus isn't. Because that's what they're saying. Or it's not Bill Belichick anymore or Tom Brady. I don't really even know any of the New England Patriots. But you can't have New England Patriots. But you can't have Jesus. And so I – you know, this is one that should be worked out.

[00:14:25] But Kirby, I recall Hiram Sasser, who – one of my colleagues at First Liberty, when Coach Kennedy's case came in, I remember Kelly Shackelford, Hiram, and I huddling together. And those were the days where that was basically the legal team. I remember that. Not the 20 lawyers that we have now. And the Coach Kennedy case came in, and we deployed the fourth lawyer, Mike Barry, to go meet with Coach. And – but we said, well, this will never last.

[00:14:53] I mean, clearly they're not – I mean, it's for 30 seconds at the end of the game. Who cares about that? Well, you know, seven years later and – And a movie and a book and everything. And a movie and a book and everything else. And a landmark Supreme Court decision. So, yes, yes, never know. You never know. And if this school district in Connecticut would – New Britain School District wants to be a Supreme Court case, then, you know, they'll fight. But – They're going against a big law firm, are they not?

[00:15:21] Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, WilmerHale and then us. I mean, with four Supreme Court victories in the last three years. So, I mean, hopefully they've done their homework. And, you know, hopefully the report will be – and maybe even Keisha will text me during the show today. We'll have some breaking news. That this courageous teacher is able to do her thing. So, those are the first two issues. And certainly I wanted to spend some time because we always like to talk about the March for Life.

[00:15:50] And Liberty, you've been following this. Of course, many of our booklets here, many of the articles you've written on the issue of abortion. And I think you actually had a chance to see some of the speeches that were given. Can you give us an update? Yeah. So, I actually watched Vice President J.D. Vance live about 45 minutes ago address the March for Life. And if I'm not mistaken, that's his first public event as VP since being inaugurated on Monday. So, that's pretty significant.

[00:16:15] And then before he spoke, President Trump actually had a prerecorded clip that played and addressed the March as well. So, I mean, I'll admit I've been critical and a little grumpy over the fact that there seemed to have been some backtracking in, you know, Trump's campaign. Even from Vance on some of the federal pro-life legislation that we'd like to see.

[00:16:40] And in the Republican Party platform, I will say I was encouraged by Vice President Vance's comments. He, some of the things he really hit hard was that America needs to be a pro-life nation, protecting the unborn, but also being more pro-family. And that's something that the left has often accused pro-lifers of, of being pro-birth, which isn't true. And Vance acknowledged that.

[00:17:07] He said, you know, to the crowd here, you have been so good at stepping up and helping women in their time of need and being supportive of needs of families. But as a nation and as a government, we have not done that as well as we need to do. And so he, you know, talked about the administration wanting to do that over the next four years and instituting more pro-family policies that will encourage people to have families. And I hope that that plays out.

[00:17:35] Well, again, I just think it was very encouraging. And, of course, I've always said that when Dobbs came down, can't we have the march now maybe in June instead of January? Right. All of us have walked through some very cold March for Lives, either here in Dallas or Washington, D.C., wherever that might be. But nevertheless, that has been a hearty bunch. And I think the point that he made is a good one, and that is if you've ever worked with crisis pregnancy centers or pregnancy resource centers,

[00:18:02] they aren't just curious and trying to save the baby. They're trying to save the soul. They're trying to save the wife, the mother, the, if you will, the husband, partner, whatever it might be. They really get involved in people's lives. And yet, I think he's pointed out there are some things we can do. One of those is we're going to talk about in just a minute, maybe get rid of things like DEI and start talking about families and a variety of others. But nothing else, March for Life again, that has taken place. Yeah, no, I think it's very important.

[00:18:32] I think, I mean, obviously, when the vice president made a strategic decision that he would attend in person and that he would speak, I also believe the president sent a video clip as well, which is tradition. But the fact that Vance is there, I know a couple of my colleagues at First Liberty are there. I'm sure you've got friends there today. It's a little cold in D.C. today. It certainly is. It's a little cold. But to me, it's very encouraging. I would echo what Liberty said and agree 100%.

[00:19:00] I mean, yeah, we're a little cautious right now with second-term Trump on pro-life issues. But this is a good first step. And it's certainly reassuring. We're going to take a break. When we come back, one of our other articles is on DEI. Actually, there's a couple of other ones I'm going to mention, but we've only posted one for you to read because that is very significant. And the editors of National Review said it was a magnificent blow against DEI.

[00:19:29] And it really wasn't until I read that article I realized how much more extensive the executive order was. When you have more than 200 a day coming out, you sort of have trouble keeping track of all of those. But one of the ones we talked about yesterday was deportations. I did mention that, but as of yesterday, I think we were up to 1,300 arrests that have taken place. And it has been very significant.

[00:19:53] And interesting enough, the Press Secretary, Carolyn Levitt, actually showed a picture, and I'll hold it up for those that hadn't seen it, of these individuals being marched into a military airplane. In case you're wondering how they're going to go back, they're not on United Airlines, not on Delta, not on American. They're going in a military transport. And, of course, some of these individuals are really significant removals from our society.

[00:20:20] As Tom Homan, who is the border czar and claims to be a border czar, that's a unique idea, nevertheless has said that we're going to take the worst first. And so you look at some of the stories that have been told about some of these individuals who are criminal, illegal aliens being removed. That also relates very much to the fact that both the House and the Senate have passed the Lake and Riley Act. And as of yesterday, I know the President is going to sign it. Maybe he signed it this morning.

[00:20:48] But nevertheless, that deportation is taking place. Of course, we also talked about sending an additional 1,500 individuals and National Guard to the border, in addition to the 2,500 that are there. So they'll be dealing with some of the things at the border. And as a matter of fact, those interdictions and catching people at the border have dropped by a full 35% already. So they actually might not have much to do. So maybe they can be building a wall.

[00:21:17] And so we'll see where that goes. We come back, though. DEI is the big issue. We're going to talk about that with our two guests right after this. At Point of View, we believe there is power in prayer. And that is why we have relaunched our Pray for America campaign, a series of weekly emails to unite Americans in prayer for our nation.

[00:21:47] Imagine if hundreds of thousands of Americans started praying intentionally together on a weekly basis. You can help make that a reality by subscribing to our Pray for America emails. Just go to pointofview.net and click on the Pray for America banner that's right there on the homepage. Each week you'll receive a brief news update, a specific prayer guide,

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[00:22:40] Let's pray together for God to make a difference in our land. Point of View will continue after this. You are listening to Point of View. The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station.

[00:23:10] And now, here again, is Kirby Anderson. Back once again, we have Liberty and Jeff in studio. I might just mention this program started this week with Liberty and Penna doing the inauguration, and it has been a busy week. But what I wanted to do now is at least focus on another one of those executive orders, which I think is very significant, but maybe will not be covered that well by the mainstream press.

[00:23:35] So we've posted a piece by the editors of National Review that referred to this as Trump's magnificent blow against DEI. And I think if you read it, you'll find out there are some very significant things in that executive order. But the question that has been in the back of many people's minds is, given the fact that it is so significant, and given the fact that almost anything when he was in his first term,

[00:24:02] almost anything President Trump did recreated all sorts of backlash, this one has not necessarily done that. And it was interesting that some people said, well, maybe it's just because there are just so many executive orders of individuals that might be protesting what he's doing, might just be exhausted. But journalists, certainly Michael Schellenberger and Alex Gutentag have another theory,

[00:24:29] and that is a lot of people are keeping their mouths shut, they say, because they know that some of these DEI initiatives, as they say, are trash, that instead of this reaction of people into the streets protesting and all of the rest, that is almost like a shoulder shrug. And that may be the case, because Liberty, let me come to you for just a minute. This article reminds us of the damage that DEI has done,

[00:24:56] and I think there are some people that maybe even on the left side of the aisle starting to say, maybe it was just a good idea that Donald Trump finally said, let's go to a merit base rather than a race or color base or gender or any kind of even ethnic base. Yeah. I mean, that just, that makes sense. It's common sense. And if you look, I mean, Heritage Foundation has a lot of good information on this,

[00:25:23] just studies showing that these DEI initiatives or similar initiatives even around the world, forced diversity training, they just don't work. People don't like it. And it doesn't actually achieve the ends that they purport to, you know, that they set out to achieve. And so, you know, again, I like to always think, okay, what is this? How can we think about this as Christians, you know, from a biblical perspective?

[00:25:51] And this is just another area where we can take leadership. I mean, diversity is a good thing. You know, people are different. Men and women are different. If men and women weren't different, it wouldn't matter if more women were on boards or in organizations, but they should get there because of merit. And so I think we can create a culture, hopefully, and lead the way in doing this that celebrates the, you know,

[00:26:15] good qualities that we can have by, you know, having a diverse coalition come together. But it should be positive. Not, I think, with so many of the DEI initiatives, it's done in such a negative way that it ends up with people still feeling more divided rather than brought together. And, again, it's just not working. So there were actually significant – there was significant support, according to a New York Times poll, for ending these initiatives.

[00:26:44] People maybe don't want to feel like they're being politically incorrect by saying they think they should end. But, like you said, they're not really speaking out against it either. Yeah, and I think on the legal side, you know, does the president have authority to issue this type of executive order? And then the short answer is absolutely because the executive order pertains to the agencies in which he is over. Right.

[00:27:11] And so – and these are a lot of this – a lot, almost all of them – well, all of them have been either from Obama, from the Obama era and or Biden. And so he's just, as the chief executive, he's directing his agencies to what I believe is comply with the law because don't forget last term the U.S. Supreme Court had two discrimination cases,

[00:27:38] which made it very clear that these type of policies and what Harvard was doing and what the University of North Carolina was doing, you know, violated the 14th Amendment. And so I think what he's doing is – I mean, I think it's just – and I think that may be the answer is, why haven't heard as much? Well, I think that's right. I think what Liberty is saying is I think because most of the public actually does think this is crazy.

[00:28:04] And, you know, it's – you know, we celebrated Inauguration Day, but we also celebrated a Martin Luther King Jr. holiday. And, of course, what are we going to be judged by? You know, not our skin color but by our character. And so I think that that is just follows up on that. And so I think – you know, I don't want to say there won't be legal challenges, but I think legal challenges are going to be very, very difficult.

[00:28:32] And certainly with this Supreme Court that's made it very clear that affirmative action and affirmative action programs violate the 14th Amendment. Let me just give you a few things if you want to write these down because the first executive order that this seems to scratch goes all the way back to 1965. Oh, wow. Now, since I'm the oldest guy around the table here by a lot, especially compared to Liberty, I remember when that came down, and that was the first time we had something called affirmative action.

[00:29:01] Nobody at the time thought it was going to be a big deal, but it got to be a bigger deal. And, of course, you can go all the way back to the Bakke case, which went to the Supreme Court, because you've probably studied that in law school and the rest. But then this also strikes down five executive orders that came either through Bill Clinton or Barack Obama. And I was unaware of all of that because, in a sense, these were implemented because they would require,

[00:29:27] if you are contacting the federal government, maybe you want to do something with the federal government, maybe you're actually going to be producing a good or service for the government, you have to check all sorts of boxes, racial and sexual things, in terms of affirmative action. First of all, that doesn't comply with the Supreme Court decisions that have come down. I don't think it makes a great deal of sense of treating people equally, because then you give preference to certain people over others.

[00:29:56] But also, just the issue of efficiency. Here is one individual that said, as anyone familiar with the current government contracting processes aware, shedding the cumbersome, expensive, and deeply unjust DEI compliance requirements would be an instantaneous victory, not only for justice, but for the effectiveness of government. And we've seen this before, Jeff, where in order to get a particular contract from the government,

[00:30:24] you have to find a woman who will plan to then pretend to be the CEO of that company, so that you can then grant that, or you have to find an African American to be part of the board, so that you can qualify. It has nothing to do with it, or not you're producing a good and service that the federal government wants, but you have to comply with all these affirmative action, checking the box kinds of requirements. Yeah, I mean, considering it's a day one, day two,

[00:30:52] maybe one of the most foundational changes... I think it is. ...that a president has made in my lifetime, because you're right, and I neglected to mention about the federal contracting, because that really... We see this all the time, because we will have, even in the religious liberty world, you have people who are wanting to provide services to the federal government, and then they're presented with these contracts that say all these things,

[00:31:22] you have to do this, this, and this, and that, and they're like, well, this violates my religious beliefs. I can't say what they're asking me to say, and the only reason they're asking you to say it is because of these, this type of, you know, we didn't use the word DEI 10 years ago, but they are DEI-type provisions. So it's really, this is, it's transformative. And again, because it has come into play in the federal government,

[00:31:50] not through Congress, not through a law that Congress passed, but through presidential actions, President Trump is just revoking orders. That's simply what he's doing that other past presidents have done. Yes. One last one, and of course, you had to expect Donald Trump wanted to do that. He wants to poke everybody in the chest, because they also have ordered agency heads to compile this to public companies, universities, and large foundations that are engaged in the most egregious and discriminatory DEI practices.

[00:32:19] In other words, he wants to maybe have a hall of shame. So he doesn't just go out by saying, well, we're just going to get rid of DEI. We're actually going to remind people of the harm that some of these DEI programs have done. I know that doesn't surprise you, but it didn't surprise me that Donald Trump decided to include that in the executive order. But back to what Jeff said, Liberty, I think we're talking about something that's transformative, and that's why I wanted to talk about it today here on Point of View. Oh, absolutely. And, you know, again, if you want to see,

[00:32:49] I know a lot of people want to see change. They want to see a more unified country. But if you are having people who are manufacturing something that looks like it complies with federal, you know, obligations so that they can work, it's like you're not even addressing the root issue. You're not making the cultural change. That's why it's not working, and people are seeing that. So, yes, the president did it in a very Trump-esque way, but I think that maybe it'll allow us to get to the root of some of these issues better now that DEI is gone.

[00:33:17] Well, when we come back, how about the pardons? Everybody's talking about them. We have last minute, 15 minutes before the end of his term, pardons from Joe Biden. Of course, we have the Trump pardons. We have J6ers. We have all sorts of things. That may take us a while, but we'll get that conversation started. And if not, of course, we have the World Economic Forum. We have the United Nations. All sorts of other things we need to talk about. All that coming up right after this.

[00:33:54] In one of his final lawless acts just three days before leaving office, President Biden proclaimed the Equal Rights Amendment is the law of the land. Congress passed this amendment to the U.S. Constitution in 1972 and gave it seven years to achieve ratification by three-fourths of the states. Proponents claimed the ERA would protect women's rights by prohibiting discrimination based on sex. Thirty-five states ratified. In a constitutionally questionable move, Congress extended the deadline three more years.

[00:34:23] Still, the amendment failed to garner the necessary support of 38 states. Five states rescinded their ratifications. The ERA expired. It's dead. The ERA would not protect women's rights. Over a decade of consideration, it became clear it would severely undermine many common-sense protections for women and could be used to end even modest restrictions on abortion. According to Kristen Wagner, president of Alliance Defending Freedom, the ERA is worse today than it was in the 70s. She points out,

[00:34:51] the word woman never appears in the ERA. Instead, she writes, the amendment focuses on sex, a word increasingly in danger of becoming meaningless, as ideologues push to disassociate the term from biology and replace it with gender identity. Under state and local ERA-type policies, women and girls are already seeing their physical privacy, their athletic opportunities, even their physical safety compromised. In a misguided attempt to revive the ERA, Nevada and Illinois passed bills to ratify the amendment.

[00:35:20] Virginia did so in 2020. Supporters claimed victory, but the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel twice declared the ERA expired. So did the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals. The archivist of the United States would be the person responsible for the amendment's publication. Dr. Colleen Shogan and her deputy declared just last month that the ERA cannot be certified as part of the Constitution due to established legal, judicial, and procedural questions. Someone must kill the zombie ERA.

[00:35:48] For Point of View, I'm Penna Dexter. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Back once again, I might just mention some of you that are listening to this online. You probably just heard Penna Dexter's commentary, which we play at the quarter of the hour, play it again an hour from now, on Biden's zombie ERA. And while we're talking about that for just a minute,

[00:36:15] I think it relates to the conversation we just had about these executive orders. Yesterday, Jeff and Liberty, I talked about the fact that Donald Trump, I think, naively thought that by signing an executive order and declaring that the 14th Amendment does not guarantee birthright citizenship, that would be sufficient. Even people that were trying to be gracious like Alan Dershowitz said, yeah, I don't think this is going to pass constitutional muster. You already have a judge that was appointed, interestingly enough, by Ronald Reagan.

[00:36:44] How long has he been there? Saying, no, this is completely unconstitutional. And so you have a situation, fortunately we still live in a republic and not a monarchy, where the individual can decree that just by an executive order, I can change the way we look at the 14th Amendment. But the one we were just listening to was Penna Dexter's, about the fact that indeed, as he was on the way out, president, now ex-president Joe Biden,

[00:37:12] thought he could just declare that the Equal Rights Amendment had passed. Liberty, if you have looked through this, you can recognize that you need 38 states to ratify it. You only had 35. Even that's where they had extended the timeline and all the rest. There is no justification for the fact that the president, by edict, saying that this Equal Rights Amendment is now part of the Constitution. But somehow he seemed to think that would actually work. Well, it reminds me, if anybody watches the office of a Michael Scott moment,

[00:37:41] where he says, I declare bankruptcy. And, you know, they say, you can't just declare bankruptcy. I feel like maybe it was that kind of moment. That's a great one. That's a good one. That's a good one. That's a good one. Liberty, that's good. Yeah, you're welcome. But anyway, yeah, I mean, you know, I'm just impressed you watch the office. Of course, of course. I'm a millennial. That's, that's our comfort show for my generation. You probably remember when you worked for us. I had a lot of office references. Yeah, so very appreciated. But it's not necessary, you know,

[00:38:11] that that issue's been dealt with. Thanks to the 14th Amendment, you know, it applies to sex discrimination. And I think we all agree that you're right. That's more harm than good. Well, and that was another thing in Penna's commentary, Jeff. And that is, again, for those of us a little bit older, remember when it first came out and Phyllis Schlafly talked about how it could be misused. Well, now as Kristen Wegener, who is, of course, president of Alliance Defending Freedom Points, that has the word woman in there. Okay, well, that's, that's difficult. And then, of course, it talks about sex.

[00:38:41] Well, we also have been talking about for so many times how the words sex and gender have been redefined under this administration. So you can see how the Equal Rights Amendment, which was originally intended to do good things, really quickly could degenerate into the problems we're dealing with right now. Yeah, if words don't mean what they say, then, then, then they're problems. But, you know, liberty's, you know, nailed it. And I mean, it's, I mean, again, you would have to reinterpret

[00:39:09] the law that authorized it, which you can't do. And no court's going to uphold. I really don't. I, I was, I was, I was really surprised at this. I mean, I know it's politics and with some sort of political gesturing, but it really does. And it's probably a good lead into the pardon discussion. It really, I mean, what, I mean, what was going on the last few weeks in, in, in the White House that, you know, somebody thought, oh, let's just push this out. Yeah. You know, he'll, he'll sign anything, which,

[00:39:38] which based on the pardons, I think that's absolutely true. He, he will sign and release anyone unless it's politically against you. And then they didn't include him, them, but very, very, I mean, I, this is, and, you know, she, I love Penn of course, but I would disagree with her last one. Someone must kill the zombie ERA. No, the ERA is dead. This is, there's no, the zombie, no. We don't need a wooden stake here. There's nothing, yeah. And again,

[00:40:08] I, I don't know if I've ever disagreed with Penn, certainly not on the air before, but I would, she didn't need the last line because we don't need to kill it. It's dead. Again, it is, it, it is dead. Dead. But again, I just think it's illustrative of something else you just mentioned in passing because we'll probably get into it. to the pardons after the break, but, um, how many things and pieces of paper were put in front of Joe Biden and he didn't know what they were. And perhaps some of you have seen the interview

[00:40:37] that they did recently with Mike Johnson. Now, Mike Johnson is speaker of the house. He used to work with you at first Liberty and he now tells a story and he's getting some heat for it of having gone to the president to talk about some really important issues, but had to wait weeks to even get a face-to-face with Joe Biden because they kept saying, well, it couldn't, he doesn't have time to meet with you. And there were some really important national security issues could not get together with him. Finally,

[00:41:07] when they get together, he walks in and it looks like, um, if you will, an attempt to hot box him about Ukrainian, uh, funding, because it's full of all sorts of people, national security council and defense department, all that kind of stuff. And at some point, Joe Biden, when they're sitting there by the fireplace, reaches over and touches Mike's hand and said, we need a few minutes together. And you could, he said, you could see the look on everybody's face

[00:41:35] like we can't leave the speaker of the house with the president in the same room at the same time, but they go out and then they get into a conversation. And finally, Mike Johnson says, I want to just raise one question. And that is, why did you pause the shipments of liquid natural gas? LNG, liquid natural, uh, natural gas. And that was, uh, something of great concern because of course, he's from Louisiana and he had actually been talking to the person in the terminal

[00:42:04] that had been shipping it out. And this was a way to support our allies. And the president said, I didn't do that. And he said, Mr. President, I hate to tell you, but yes, you did do that. And he said, no, I didn't. Uh, the only thing I signed on LNG was actually a study of liquid natural gas. And he said, no, Mr. President, that's not what you signed. And so you have this situation where again, now Mike Johnson's getting criticized because he didn't bring it up at the time.

[00:42:34] But the point is they were putting pieces of paper in front of him. And this is just one example. You can find other examples like that from other individuals. And he honestly did not know what was on the sheet. And that I think illustrates again, he was not running the government or kind of wonder who was running the government at the time. No. And that's, I mean, and you know, Mike's story, Speaker Johnson's story. I mean, we've heard others, right? And, and I almost think when I first heard the first part,

[00:43:03] I was thinking he's going to tell him, I'm being held hostage. Can you help me? Can you help me? Get me out in time. You know? And, um, I mean, I, you know, I, I think to a person, I mean, I think that the people around him that they, that they, they certainly regret that he stepped down, right? And didn't run, um, and allowed, um, Harris to, to, to run for president. Um, but it does, I mean, it does call into question really

[00:43:32] everything that's been going on, especially because you, I mean, I mean, we're going to talk about pardons, but we're, I mean, these are, these are very serious decisions that were made. And if the president, if he's not making the decision, um, that's, there's a lot of problems with that. Um, and if, if senior staff, uh, uh, because I think what probably happened is, you know, either he didn't know he's signing, which is clear because that was evidence,

[00:44:02] but his senior staff misled him. Oh yes. And, and, and, and that's more disturbing. That is. Well, again, we're going to take a break and we'll come back and talk about the pardons because he may have known he was going to issue a preemptive pardon to his family. Um, and again, think about this. How many preemptive pardons have we had? Richard Nixon was preemptively pardoned by Gerald Ford. And then go to Jimmy Carter. He preempty, had a preemptive pardon of draft dodgers,

[00:44:31] but that's about it. And all of a sudden we have these preemptive pardons and a variety of other things. So this particular piece by, uh, John Wu and, uh, John shoe are important. There's also a piece which I was going to post by Cal Thomas, who is more critical of the whole pardon issue, but we'll get into that in some detail. And of course you might have some comments or questions or thoughts because that has become kind of a big issue as well. So we're going to take a break. We'll come back with more right after these important messages.

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