Point of View January 21, 2025 – Hour 2 : Transgender Issues

[00:00:04] Across America, Live, this is Point of View. And now, Dr. Merrill Matthews. And welcome back to Point of View. I'm Merrill Matthews sitting in for Kirby Anderson today. And we've got a great last hour for you here. Joining me in studio, Jordan Campbell.

[00:00:31] He is the founding partner at Campbell, Miller & Payne. It is the first and only law firm in the country exclusively dedicated to representing detransitioners and others harmed by radical gender ideology. We've had Jordan here before. And Jordan, thank you for joining us again. Thank you. It's great to be back. We're here for an update of what's happening. But start us out by telling us because you were a lawyer with a large law firm.

[00:00:57] You decided to step down and start this new firm. Tell us about that background. Yeah. So, I started out in big law, as we will say in law school in the legal world. I worked in downtown in the big buildings and was there for seven years and really enjoyed doing the work I did there. But decided to go to a smaller, more boutique firm of about 20 lawyers here in town that I absolutely loved.

[00:01:24] Brown Fox. Great, amazing team of attorneys got to be doing some really great work. And I figured that's where I was going to retire, you know, in 40 years or whatever. But then God had different plans, as he often does. It just kind of lasts when you think you've got it all figured out. So, just when you think you've got it all figured out. That's exactly right. Just like when he surprises you with the seventh child. When you think you're done at six, right?

[00:01:55] So, I had been there for about a couple years and I did not know much about the trans issue, if you will, to put it in simple terms. I knew very little beyond maybe like the NBA All-Star game being moved from North Carolina because of a bathroom bill, right? That's about as much as I knew. And then I was listening to a podcast trying to walk the dog one day, or excuse me, one night just looking for something to listen to.

[00:02:26] And this subject sort of came up on the podcast. And I couldn't tell you why, other than obviously Providence, but it sent me down just an intellectual rabbit hole. And I spent the better part of a few months kind of learning everything I could on the subject. And the more I learned, the more aghast I became and had a moment in October of 22, where I literally was sitting on my bed.

[00:02:50] I threw my hands up and I said, man, somebody needs to do something to stop essentially what they're doing, these kids and don't know young adults. And it felt like God kind of hit me in the head and said, well, that's why I just showed you all this stuff. So you go do something. And so that was sort of where the idea of the firm came was, okay, let's, I feel I can be called to this. Let's use the tools and the trainings, the giftings that I've been given as a litigator to go do something. And so we set about to do that.

[00:03:18] So you have a small firm now. How many attorneys do you have? There's four of us. Four of you. And you're working on various types of cases. Yes. Most, most all of them are representing plaintiffs pursuing what are essentially medical malpractice claims against the doctors that quote unquote transitioned them. You know, the last time we talked, President Biden was still in charge. Kamala Harris was there.

[00:03:45] The whole country from the, from sort of the leading of the executive, the administration was trying to promote the change to transgenderism, the support for it and so forth. We've had something of a, of a, of a title shift here starting really yesterday. President Trump signing an executive order. I guess you've looked at that a little bit. What do you think about this executive order? So the executive order is, is fantastic.

[00:04:10] Obviously, it could not be a more monumental seismic shift from the previous administration of, as you well know. And I think what it, beyond the, the sort of set action items that it lists out, I think that the most significant thing to me is that it is just indicative of what I think is truly a, a similar seismic shift culturally where we are on the subject from where we were even four years ago.

[00:04:47] Mm-hmm. Executive order is illustrative of that.

[00:05:11] And now it is, I'd say, putting kind of lighter fluid on the, on the, on the good side, on the fire in terms of, yeah, I think you're going to see a lot more progress being made very quickly over the next couple years. And the Supreme Court has decided to hear one or two cases, I guess, along this line? Yes.

[00:05:29] So the Supreme Court heard just a couple months ago the Scrimetti case, and that was the appeal where the United States government appealed Tennessee's ban on pediatric general medicalization, excuse me. So, you know, the transing of kids. So the U.S. government came in as an intervener in that case, and they basically challenged that law. They took it all the way to the Supreme Court.

[00:05:59] The Supreme Court heard that a couple months ago now. And now they've taken another case, and this is a parental rights case, where a group of parents were frustrated that the school was putting this sort of, you know, junk into their curriculum and objected to it.

[00:06:20] And the school said you can't opt out, and so that's what this case is about, is sort of the parental rights to oversee my child's education, you know, vis-a-vis indoctrinating my kids with this dangerous ideology. So the Supreme Court has not decided the Scrimetti case, I guess it is? That's right. And it's just, it's going, it's going to hear the other case. I think they've announced they're going to hear that.

[00:06:44] So it's probably going to be May or June before we hear something from this on the Supreme Court, you think? Yeah, I think it'll probably be June or July. They'll probably, they tend to issue the more, you know, controversial or perhaps politically charged is probably a better way to phrase it. Opinions towards the end. So I think you'll probably see those holdings come out towards the end. My guess is June, July, if I'm not mistaken.

[00:07:11] Always hard to know how the Supreme Court's going to do this, but do you have a sense based upon their questions and just the discussion that was going on during these cases? Yes. So in Scrimetti, the Tennessee's ban, all indications are at least five of the justices will vote to uphold it, if not six, which is to say to uphold Tennessee's law and rule that it is in fact constitutional and states can regulate this barbaric practice.

[00:07:42] So, you know, keep your fingers crossed. You can never count your chickens before they hatch. But I do get the sense based on the oral argument, based on just how we understand the judges to be on these types of issues. I think you'll see probably all six of the conservative justices vote to uphold the law. And I think you said we've got about 25 states. About half the states have passed something along that line. That's right. And that's including Texas, I believe? Yes. Yeah. So we'll be looking to see what happens there.

[00:08:12] Our guest for this hour, Jordan Campbell. He is a founding partner of a law firm that specializes in representing detransitioners. These are generally minors who went through what we call gender affirming care, transition care. They may have become adults now, and they're looking back on this and feeling like there's just it has created so many problems for them. In many cases, they don't feel like they got good advice, medical advice from the medical community. So stay with us.

[00:08:41] We'll be back with Jordan Campbell in just a minute. This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson. Yesterday, I talked about apples and inflation. There's another way to think about inflation that has been part of our economy for the past 100 years.

[00:09:09] The supply of U.S. dollars has been expanding on average about 7% each year for the last century. That means the value of dollars is cut in half about every 10 years. Just use the rule of 72. Divide 7% into 72. That means the half-life of the U.S. dollar has been about 10 years. We may not notice the decreasing value of dollars until we get even higher inflation. But think of what a 10-year half-life for the dollar means to you.

[00:09:37] For me, it means that the money I put into a Wells Fargo savings account when I was in grade school has been cut in half six times. The U.S. dollar is still the reserve currency of the world. And yet, this is what happens with the best fiat currency in the world. If you hold your savings in cash, you are losing value every year. If you hold some of your savings in assets, the value of the asset usually goes up because it takes more dollars to purchase it. But for it to appreciate, your asset has to be both scarce and desirable.

[00:10:07] Now imagine if you lived in Venezuela or Argentina or Lebanon or Turkey. If your country increases the currency each year by 18%, your currency's half-life is four years. If your country increases the currency by 30%, it has a two-and-a-half-year half-life. That is why citizens in these countries can never get ahead. When I hear people tell me that they are financially or just treading water, I'm tempted to tell them they're really sinking.

[00:10:33] Printing more U.S. dollars makes everyone poorer unless they have assets appreciating faster than the money printer. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view. For a free booklet on a biblical view of genetic engineering, go to viewpoints.info slash genetic engineering. Viewpoints.info slash genetic engineering.

[00:10:58] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. And we're back on Point of View. I'm Merrill Matthews sitting in for Kirby Anderson, and joining me in studio is Jordan Campbell. He is the founding partner at Campbell Miller Payne. That is the first and only law firm in the country exclusively dedicated to representing detransitioners and others harmed by the radical gender ideology and the surgery and the medical care.

[00:11:26] And I want to put the numbers out there. 1-800-351-1212. 1-800-351-1212. That's our numbers. If you'd like to call in and ask Jordan a question, this may be your chance to talk to somebody who's involved in this heavily, especially if you've had children who've had questions about this, if you've gotten medical advice from people and you feel like you need to just want to ask a question about that, give us a call. 1-800-351-1212.

[00:11:56] One of the things I learned from you, Jordan, is this detransitioning care is not a small business out there. We almost might call it a transition care industrial complex because there's a lot of companies making a lot, and people making a lot of money off this. Yeah, it is a multi-billion dollar industry, which is just staggering when you think about it, but both from the pharmaceutical side and then as well as the surgical side.

[00:12:24] And what about the pharmaceutical side? They're providing hormone therapy and other things for kids who are meeting. And, you know, there's oftentimes been doctors who want to. You've got a child who's hitting puberty really quickly and very young, and they may say, well, we're going to use a puberty blocker just to slow this down a little bit. But that's not what we're talking about here.

[00:12:46] Well, so there are the – so let me back up and just say it's pharmaceutical, and then it's the medical professionals, and then it's – I think I just said surgery. But it's everything, right? So it's the therapists who see these kids. It's the primary care providers or the pediatricians who prescribe something like puberty blockers or cross-sex hormones.

[00:13:12] Everybody in there is profiting, and here's kind of the sickest part, Meryl, is when you take one of these kids or young adults, these vulnerable individuals, and put them on cross-sex hormones, and this speaks to the monetary side of it, is you are effectively creating a lifelong patient no matter what because obviously if they stay trans-identifying,

[00:13:41] then they're going to continue to need that prescription in perpetuity. And then if they detransition, very often if you're on cross-sex hormones for not too long, but it will – your body will lose its ability to produce your natural hormones. So a girl gets put on testosterone for a couple years. She decides, oh, my gosh, this was a horrible mistake, and she snaps out of it. Well, she's still got to go back, and she's got to get estrogen for the rest of her life.

[00:14:08] And so you're creating a lifelong patient, which is a tremendous financial incentive, I would think, for a lot of these people in this industry. And you've had people – one of the things we found out in the last year or two is there have been whistleblowers that have been part of the industry, working in the industry, and I guess would at least at one point supportive of the industry who have said, what I'm seeing is wrong and I am pulling out of that. Tell us about some of those people. Yeah, so Jamie Reed was sort of the first one to come into big national prominence.

[00:14:38] She worked – And this is not like a conservative evangelical. Jamie is anything but. She is a good friend. She is – she was working at a pediatric gender clinic at Washington University in St. Louis and then basically became alarmed at what she was seeing as just kids getting fast-tracked and fast-tracked into these life-altering decisions. And so she spoke out to the free press, and obviously she's got put on, I think, administrative weave. I may be getting that wrong.

[00:15:06] But it sent her career in a different trajectory to her now. She has started what's called the LGBT Courage Coalition, with whom we talk and try to work with a lot. But she's kind of dedicating her life towards pushing back against the thing that she was doing just a few years ago because she recognizes what a problem this is and how many kids are getting chewed up and their bodies destroyed by this. Tamara Pitsky is another whistleblower.

[00:15:32] She's actually our client in Washington State who similarly would not – you wouldn't describe as a red conservative or anything like that. If anything, she would actually have told you I was an affirming therapist. But what they were telling me to do with these kids who have so many comorbidities and mental health issues is I'm being told you just affirm and you make sure they get their hormones. And she said that's crazy. I can't do that. So she spoke up.

[00:16:00] And, of course, that launched not one but two investigations by the state of Washington's into her license, which are still pending. We represent her in those as well. And then, of course, locally you have Dr. Eitan Heim who spoke out about the practices at Texas Children's. And that was enough to get the DOJ to come after him. And so he got indicted in a federal lawsuit there. So you're starting to see others come out of the woodwork.

[00:16:29] And I wouldn't be surprised if we have more and more as, again, sort of going back to what we talked about last segment, that cultural shift. I think now it's more acceptable. And I hope we're going to see a lot more whistleblowers. You know, you mentioned the mental health problems. One of the things that we've come to conclude about this is a lot of these kids who say they want to transition or think they may want to, they're being affected by social media and other things.

[00:16:55] And many of them have mental health struggles that some of these clinics are not working through. That's exactly right. And every one of these clinics aren't working through. What you're seeing, when I say kids are getting fast-tracked, is you have these – so we've spoken with 130, 140 now potential clients or families.

[00:17:18] And it is a shockingly sad and similar story over and over and over and over again, which is a vulnerable young kid, typically girl, about – if you look at the data, statistically, it's about a quote-unquote trans-identifying youth. It's about 70, 30 girls, boys. And there's, I'm sure, explanations we could get into if you'd like.

[00:17:44] But we have noticed that as well, almost exactly the same 70, 30 as far as individuals who have reached out to us who've been impacted by this. And so you've got a young girl who has, I mean, four, five, six, seven mental health comorbidities, so health issues, so anxiety, depression, a history of suicide, sexual abuse in the past.

[00:18:07] A lot of the times that's why a young woman, for instance, will be uncomfortable with puberty and turning into a woman because their idea of what a woman is is being objectified and abused. And so it's naturally scary. And so you've got these – almost all of our clients are on the spectrum. Most everybody we've talked to is somewhere on the autism spectrum. Yes. And so you've got these kids who have all these issues that they need appropriate help for, therapy, processing.

[00:18:37] Oftentimes, they just need time to go through puberty because it turns out that's hard for everybody to go through, right? I mean, I both know that. It is indeed. And so instead of getting that help, they are – I mean, at the first, sometimes second appointment, they're getting prescribed cross-sex hormones. Boom. Just like that.

[00:18:54] I mean, you have clinics that will advertise and brag that you can get it within a 15 to 30-minute meeting, including Planned Parenthood, which is – most people don't realize – the single largest provider of cross-sex hormones for trans-identifying youths. So you have these really, really broken individuals, and they're getting pushed into these life-altering decisions.

[00:19:15] And I'll tell you the sickest thing that we see, and we see it over and over and over again in terms of being pushed into this because this is not – oftentimes, these kids and or especially their parents don't – the parents have no idea what to do with this. Right. And so what do you do? Okay, I guess we go see an expert.

[00:19:33] So you go to see the expert, and the expert tells the parents almost every time it's the – excuse me, what we call the suicide fallacy or the suicide myth, rather, where they literally tell the parents, would you rather have a living son or a dead daughter? And that's – it's emotional blackmail of the highest order. It's abhorrent, but it is employed over and over and over again. We've seen it time and again, and it's sad and it's sick. So the parents give the consent, and then it begins to move forward.

[00:20:03] And then what happens? So then usually just our typical client profile is they'll go forward. They will usually proceed from – These are minors. These are typically minors. A lot of the times – this is – most people think it's just kids. It's just preteens or teenagers. When we see young adults, 19, 20, 25-year-olds who get caught up in this madness. So it's not just minors, but it's – the common thread is they're all very mentally and emotionally compromised.

[00:20:33] And so they'll get started sometimes on puberty blockers if they get caught early enough. Almost 100 percent of kids who are put on puberty blockers for, quote, unquote, gender dysphoria are then put on cross-sex hormones subsequently. And they'll be on those for a number of years. And then some go on to get surgeries, which are obviously the most tragic and irreversible and damaging.

[00:20:59] But the damaging effects of cross-sex hormones, even for months, can have lifelong devastating effects. And so for our clients, at some point they snap out of it. Something makes them realize. And then when they decide, oh, my gosh, I'm not trans, it's too late for them. 1-800-351-1212 if you have a question for Jordan Campbell as we're talking about detransitioners and how they get out of this and file lawsuits. So stay with us on Point of View.

[00:21:31] It almost seems like we live in a different world from many people in positions of authority. They say men can be women and women men. People are prosecuted differently or not at all, depending on their politics. Criminals are more valued and rewarded than law-abiding citizens. It's so overwhelming, so demoralizing. You feel like giving up. But we can't. We shouldn't. We must not.

[00:21:58] As Winston Churchill said to Britain in the darkest days of World War II, never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. And that's what we say to you today. This is not a time to give in, but to step up and join Point of View in providing clarity in the chaos.

[00:22:23] We can't do it alone, but together, with God's help, we will overcome the darkness. Invest in biblical clarity today at pointofview.net or call 1-800-347-5151. Pointofview.net and 800-347-5151. Point of View will continue after this.

[00:22:57] You are listening to Point of View. The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now, here again, Dr. Merrill Matthews. And welcome back on Point of View. I'm Merrill Matthews, sending in for Kirby Anderson today. And joining me in studio, Jordan Campbell. He is the founding partner of Campbell Miller Payne.

[00:23:23] And that is the only law firm, the first and only law firm, dealing exclusively with detransitioners as they try to address the problems that they've had, mostly minors. But, Jordan, tell me, if somebody were to call, walk us through the process. If I'm a parent and I'm concerned, how do I go through this process of contacting you? Sure.

[00:23:46] So, as far as our clients, typically we either get just somebody writing to the website. Sometimes folks will just call and you answer and, oh, my gosh, I might be talking to a new client. Yeah, exactly. Typically, though, it starts out via email or being introduced via email. Sometimes we get people sending folks to us.

[00:24:13] What we typically do is just schedule a call. Usually we try to do a video call just because, you know, you're hearing somebody's, you know, most vulnerable parts of their life. And I like to at least get some level of familiarity and comfort there. And as much as you can be comfortable with talking to four grown men if you're, you know, a young woman who's gone through this. But we try. And so we have an intake call. Sometimes there will be maybe a second or third even.

[00:24:43] And then we'll ask for and get whatever doctor's notes we can. And then it's just a – it takes a good minute to prepare these things and evaluate the case because you're talking about medical records going back for years and years across provider, you know, five, six, seven, eight providers sometimes. And so it takes us some time to evaluate. I was just in the break looking at a case we're looking at right now where we just got the records.

[00:25:08] And then if we think that there is a case that isn't time barred, so statute of limitations is a thing. And that changes in states because you – do you work in all states? So, yes, our firm can – we have 13 live matters across 10 states, I want to say, 11. But, yeah, the idea was that we can operate anywhere in the country. And that was just a strong conviction early on that if this was going to be successful, it needed to be – you know, it's a national problem.

[00:25:37] So we need to be national in scope, our practice. So we partner with what's called local counsel. We find, you know, local attorneys who basically sponsor us to be admitted for that one-off case. Oh, I see. And so we get admitted what's called pro hoc vc on a case-by-case basis in each jurisdiction we find ourselves. So the – you talk to them. Are there cases that you feel like this is just not clear enough, the person isn't that committed to going forward, cases that you just don't take?

[00:26:06] Yes, and sadly, like I think I mentioned earlier, we've spoken to over 130 and maybe 140 now potential clients. And we have to turn away a lot, obviously, if we've only brought 13 and we're looking at, I think, three or four more currently in the hopper. But the biggest problem, the biggest reason we have to turn folks away, and I hate doing it every time, is, like I just mentioned, the statute of limitations.

[00:26:33] Because – and the statute of limitations, for those listening, is just a – it's law that says you only have X number of years to bring a medical malpractice case. And so the legislatures have set that, sometimes common law. But the idea is if statute of limitations is three years and our client's treatment goes back eight years ago, there's a legal question of whether you can bring a claim for care that happened so long ago.

[00:27:02] And so most frequently if we're turning a case down, it's because it's time barred. The conduct happened too far in the past or the client realized what happened three years ago and two years. Sorry, tough luck. So that's the biggest reason we have to turn cases down. There are cases where folks have reached out to us and then gotten cold feet and said, actually, I don't think litigation is right for me. And that's absolutely the right decision for a lot of people because litigation is not easy. It's hard.

[00:27:31] We try to tell folks up front this is not – litigation is tough. It's going to take time. It can be emotionally wearing. It's – the other side gets discovery into your deepest, darkest secrets in some cases or just your most vulnerable facts and stories. And then there are some where we determine that this person would not benefit from litigation.

[00:27:58] They don't – we don't think they have the mental health or just it would be too re-traumatizing, for instance. Can civil cases be filed or are these civil cases that we're talking about that you're doing? Yes. These are all civil cases that we file. Okay. So statute of limitations still apply on even on the civil cases. That's right. And that – does that vary by state? It does.

[00:28:20] It varies state to state and even – excuse me, in terms of the number of years, one, and also in terms of what are the exceptions to it. Some cases – excuse me, some states have – most states have what's called the discovery rule, which is just basically law that says the statute of limitations is, let's say, three years. But it doesn't start to run until you realize or should have known about the harm that was done to you.

[00:28:47] So a surgeon leaves a sponge in a – you know, in a surgeon – or excuse me, in a patient and it doesn't manifest for four years. Well, the law says we're not going to hold you responsible for that four-year gap. You didn't know about it. And then some states have what's called not just statute of limitations, which says you have X number of years, but there may be exceptions. Some states have what's called the statute of repose that says no matter what, this is the number of years. There are no exceptions. Hard line. And those are the toughest states.

[00:29:17] So you've decided to accept the case. What happens next? Well, we start preparing the lawsuit. So we continue to review records. We try to get any other medical records that we haven't seen in the case evaluation phase. And then we work up the case. And so you're pouring through medical records. You're looking for, you know, the egregious conduct. And then ultimately we will draft what's called a complaint or a petition if you're here in Texas. And that's what most people would refer to as, oh, they filed the lawsuit.

[00:29:46] You're filing the complaint, which initiates the lawsuit. And then you're off and running. And you have some that – where are some of these in process now? Are you getting close or do you go to trial or do they settle outside of trial or what's – where are we? That's a great question. We'll let you know where we are as we continue to go. So, you know, our firm is less than two years old and our first case is, not surprisingly, the furthest along.

[00:30:13] But it's still not set for trial, I don't think, until next year. We have three matters. Yes. We have three matters that are currently set for October. And then as far as, you know, are they going to settle? Are they going to get a jury trial? That's a great question. We still don't know the answer. Sure. Typically, I mean, just speaking of civil lawsuits, the vast majority will settle before trial. And as we like to say, deadlines make deals, right?

[00:30:41] And so oftentimes you have the parties litigate, litigate, litigate, and then eve of trial, boom, settlement. That may happen, may not. This is such a charged issue and sort of mission critical to the other side that they may say, we're not going to settle. We've got to take this all the way to see it all the way through. We're going to fight this thing to the doggone end. And frankly, I hope we do get some trials because I would love to tell our client stories to a jury and let them put a number on that.

[00:31:12] So primarily you're looking for financial. Does it sometimes – are you asking for apologies, a change of practice, things of that nature? Well, we can't get that in from a lawsuit or, excuse me, from say something went through a jury trial. Ultimately, what we can provide as civil litigators is monetary recovery. So that could be a financial settlement. That could be a jury verdict.

[00:31:38] Now, if you're talking settlement discussions, we can certainly ask for some of those different things. That's just a straight-up negotiation. And if our clients want it, we will. But it would be tough to get one of these folks to agree not to do this, to change their practice. Hopefully, if we start winning enough and you start seeing some big awards, they're going to come to that conclusion on their own that we should probably stop doing this to these kids.

[00:32:05] Yeah, my thought all along has been that the best solution, probably the most effective solution is if some of these medical centers and doctors and so forth start having to pay out major malpractice awards, then the malpractice insurers are going to say, we're not going to cover you anymore, and that that ultimately sort of resolves the problem. Yes, you're absolutely right. The insurance angle is huge.

[00:32:31] And that was – one of our goals is even just filing lawsuits is enough to start raising the insurance carriers' antennas. And there were a couple of stories last year where it was basically saying that in light of these lawsuits being filed, insurance carriers were – in this one-off anecdote –

[00:32:53] had raised the cost of getting insurance coverage, so much so that this doctor who wanted to start a gender clinic had to raise money. But it's – the insurance is responding to what they perceive as massive risk. And the more wins, the more risk there is. And they'll either make it cost prohibitive to enter that – to get coverage, or they're just going to drop it altogether. And that's the big win. 1-800-351-1212.

[00:33:22] We'll be back in our final segment with Jordan Campbell talking about the transgender – detransitioning from gender care and the problems that that's created and the lawsuits that are being filed on that. So stay with us. We'll be right back.

[00:33:38] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. And welcome back to Point of View, our final segment with Jordan Campbell.

[00:34:05] As we talk about his efforts to represent clients who transitioned as minors and now are looking at detransitioning and just the kind of sense that they felt like they were being railroaded through some of these decisions they made as minors. And now many of them are adults. And Jordan, I think you told me that this really can't be a class action suit, even though there's lots of people with similar stories. That's right.

[00:34:33] We get asked a lot, is this going to turn into a class action? And the short answer is no. And there's various legal reasons for it. But I think the simplest way is with class actions, you typically see a uniformity in damages. So, for instance, I once got a check as a class member for LA Fitnesses where they had been sued for making it impossible to cancel your membership. I remember seeing those things. There, everybody has had the same harm, right?

[00:35:02] Whereas with our clients, their damages are completely different. Some of them went through this. Some of them went through just, quote, unquote, hormones. Some went through one surgery. Some had two or three different surgeries. So it just makes it too difficult. You're not going to be able to get a class certification. So they're just individual lawsuits. So we talked a bit about the children who made these decisions oftentimes through advice from medical providers, doctors and so forth, therapists, who were encouraging this to move forward.

[00:35:30] Now they are willing to detransition. But you can't just walk away from this. What kind of lives are they looking at now? Yes. It's very difficult is the short answer. Physically, obviously, their bodies are beyond repair. You can't recover. And that's true if they've just taken hormones, right? Oh, my gosh, yes.

[00:35:54] I mean, just, quote, unquote, hormones has devastating effects on a young woman or young man's body. Irreversible effects. You know, for a girl, for instance, taking testosterone, there, as one of our clients will say, you know, her bone structure is that of a man. Broad shoulders, you know, narrow waist. Sometimes, you know, the hips don't develop like they would through female puberty.

[00:36:21] And so they will no longer be able to birth a child. Should they be able to conceive? And that's a big question. Even the ability to conceive could be a problem. Exactly. If you're put on puberty blockers followed by cross-sex hormones, it is almost certain that you will never be able to conceive. And so you've got, to your point a moment ago, of just kids making these monumental decisions rather than being sort of having those foisted upon them.

[00:36:46] And you hear this from – we hear this all the time from our clients that, you know, 19, 20, 21, they're thinking, my gosh, I really wish I could have a kid. I want to be a mom. I didn't know the – I couldn't appreciate that at all as a nine-year-old. I was a kid who got caught up in something and fixated on it, and the idea of forfeiting motherhood didn't mean the first thing to be. But, my gosh, it's everything now.

[00:37:10] There was a time when even mentioning that some people might want to detransition was sort of anathema. People said, oh, you can't talk about that. That's right. And, yeah, just to kind of bring our conversation kind of full circle is the difference, right? Like you just mentioned, there was a time not that long ago where you couldn't even suggest that was possible.

[00:37:34] And, again, just to speak to the cultural shift, the growing momentum we have on our side of this issue, just generally speaking, I think that the climate is completely different. It's becoming okay to step forward. It's becoming okay to say I was wronged, to realize, oh, my gosh, this was all a lie, and to wear the term detransitioner.

[00:37:57] You know, we had talked about big pharma in this and the pharmaceutical role in this, and I think you've told me that you aren't filing suit against the pharmaceutical companies, at least at this point. Do you think that may change at some point? And what I'm thinking of is with, like, the OxyContin and Purdue Pharma, Purdue Pharma is paying out. I think they filed for bankruptcy. The family is paying out billions of dollars on this.

[00:38:24] And part of it was because they looked at this and they said, you weren't just providing this drug based upon a doctor's recommendation. You were actually sort of pushing this and promoting this. And so if it comes out that some of the drug companies were promoting these things, does that open them up? Yes, you're exactly right. To get liability against the pharmaceutical companies for the off-label use of a prescription drug,

[00:38:53] you do need to be able to show that they were actively promoting the off-label use. Off-label just refers to it has not been approved by the FDA for that purpose. And just for our listeners, doctors use drugs off-label oftentimes, especially cancer drugs, maybe approved for an adult they're using on a minor or a teenager. I mean, they use off-label. It's not unusual. Exactly. So you'd have to be able to prove that they were somehow or other actively promoting this in some way. Correct.

[00:39:23] It's a – and again, just to reference something we talked about earlier, but this – I mean, it is a multibillion-dollar industry, the cross-sex hormone and puberty-blocking industry for, quote-unquote, gender-affirming care. So I suspect, just personally, I don't have anything that I can point to, but I suspect they know what they're doing and they've been promoting it because it is just so lucrative. So you mentioned that several states have passed laws, various ways of prohibiting this.

[00:39:51] Do the states sometimes contact you to get information from you about what they should use in these laws? Yeah. So we have worked with AG's offices, state legislators across the country. In fact, I've got to go – I'm late to get something to a certain state representative's office this afternoon touching on these issues. But we do get asked about it.

[00:40:17] We get asked both in terms of insight what would be helpful for our clients, lifting the statute of limitations, lifting or getting the non-economic damages caps so that the pain and anguish suffering damages caps. A lot of states will have hard caps on that. Getting those lifted for this type of, quote, care. So stuff like that is where they've reached out to us to see what would be helpful.

[00:40:43] And then also, once a legislation is passed, there's hearings on it, and they have asked, and our clients have testified across the country in support of certain state bills saying, this is what's happening. Let me be a cautionary tale. This legislation is necessary because there's other kids just like me who are getting chewed up and spit out with us.

[00:41:06] The notion just crossed my mind, but could a state pass legislation saying you cannot sell malpractice insurance in our state for this particular kind of care? I would bet so. Once you start getting into regulating insurance, I'm going to go ahead and admit I'm a little bit out of my expertise there, but I don't see why not, although I'm getting a little bit over my skis there. So if somebody wants to talk to you, find out more about what you're doing, and maybe bring their own concerns to you, how do they get in touch with you? Yeah.

[00:41:36] Easiest way is go to our website, DTransLaw.com. There is a – DTransLaw, all one word. DTransLaw.com, all one word. Just go to the website. There is a contact us. You can fill out a submission form right there on the webpage, and it will go to all the attorneys, and we try to get back in touch with you as soon as we can. So if you get back in touch with them, then they're prepared to – you have the conference call, sort of start working through this situation? That's right.

[00:42:04] It begins that process of kind of what we walked through in one of our previous segments. Because you're just starting this now. You've been doing this for a couple of years, but you haven't really gone to trial. You don't have a lot of rewards that you can point to yet, but I guess you're hopeful in some cases. Oh, we're very, very, very optimistic. I mean, all of our cases are horrific and tragic, and I think the liability is very clear, and I think it's very substantial. So we haven't gotten there yet.

[00:42:33] The other side makes you earn it, as it would turn out, but we're optimistic. We're going to see our first recovery starting towards the end of this year. Well, Jordan Campbell, thank you so much for joining. I think you're doing the Lord's work in this. It's a job that's got to be a tough job, but it needs to be done. It's very difficult, I'm not going to lie, but it's also the most rewarding and fulfilled I've ever had in my working life.

[00:42:58] If you want to find out more about that, you can go to pointofview.net, and we'll have a link to his website there so you can find out more. Thank you for joining us today on Point of View. The Bible tells us not to worry, and yet there is a lot of worrying stuff in our world today. Thankfully, the Bible doesn't stop at telling us not to worry. God gives us a next step.

[00:43:26] He says we need to pray. But sometimes even knowing what to pray can be difficult, And that is why Point of View has relaunched our Pray for America movement, a series of weekly emails to guide you in prayer for our nation. Each week, you'll receive a brief update about a current issue affecting Americans, along with a written prayer that you can easily share with others.

[00:43:54] We'll also include a short free resource for you in each email so you can learn more about the issue at hand. Will you commit to pray for America? Go to pointofview.net, click on the Pray for America banner at the top of the page to subscribe. Again, that's pointofview.net, click on the Pray for America banner.

[00:44:21] Let's pray together for God to make a difference in America. Point of View is produced by Point of View Ministries. Go to pointofview.net, click on theweave, on social media performs first for other people inathy and be Snapdragon 71. Select using caption