Point of View January 2, 2025 – Hour 1 : Anticipating Heaven

[00:00:04] Across America, live, this is Point of View, Kirby Anderson.

[00:00:20] Thank you for joining me, it is the Thursday edition of Point of View and first of all, Happy New Year.

[00:00:25] And I do want to take care of just a few minor details before we get to our interview today with Dr. Pamela Pyle.

[00:00:31] Our book is entitled Anticipating Heaven, we'll talk about that in just a minute.

[00:00:35] But a couple of questions are probably on your mind.

[00:00:37] First of all, as we went off the air on December 31st, we talked about the fact that we had made the first match.

[00:00:45] We had met that match actually the day before and there was a second match put on there.

[00:00:50] So I think we can confidently say number one, we met the first match. Number two, we've met our goal.

[00:00:55] And of that second match, I think we're about three fourths away from finishing that.

[00:01:02] Now we recognize some of the mail might come in, which would help us reach that final goal.

[00:01:07] But again, we've left up for you on the website, pointofview.net, an opportunity for you if you wanted in the year of 2025 to make a gift that would still be matched until we run out.

[00:01:20] So again, I think many people oftentimes say, did you make your goal? Yes.

[00:01:24] Did you make your first match? Yes.

[00:01:26] We added a second one. We probably will finish that one off very soon.

[00:01:30] And so that's all good news. And I'll try to announce it a few times because my wife yesterday was on one of the phone calls and somebody said, well, you don't take enough time to talk about whether or not you met the match.

[00:01:40] So I'll say it now. I'll say it again next hour so that you know about that.

[00:01:44] As you might imagine, we will continue with our interview today.

[00:01:50] But we also recognize that next hour we're going to spend some time talking about what happened in New Orleans and Las Vegas.

[00:01:56] So far, the FBI says that it believes that the suspect there in New Orleans, the New York's Day attack, which has killed, I guess the estimates are now 15 people, that that had nothing to do with the explosion of the Tesla cyber truck outside of the Trump International Hotel in Las Vegas.

[00:02:17] Well, color me skeptical if for no other reason.

[00:02:22] These two men use the same car rental app.

[00:02:25] They both have served in the military in what at that time was called Fort Bragg, now called Fort Liberty.

[00:02:32] And as one commentator put it, when you detonate a truck made by the company of Elon Musk in front of a hotel with Donald Trump's name on it, I think the political message of the attack is awfully darn clear.

[00:02:45] And of course, you might be wondering, what about the barricades?

[00:02:49] Well, those barricades usually are up and would be up for the Super Bowl, but were actually taken down.

[00:02:55] And that made it a little easier, although I think he could have avoided some of that anyway.

[00:03:01] And of course, as many of you that are football fans may know, the Sugar Bowl has been postponed till today, about two hours from now.

[00:03:08] So just wanted to recognize that we will spend some time talking about that in some detail.

[00:03:12] Also have posted some other articles related to the congressional agenda for Congress.

[00:03:18] The whole debate right now of TikTok and Donald Trump's involvement with that and a few other issues.

[00:03:24] And if we don't get to everything today, don't forget tomorrow is our Friday weekend edition.

[00:03:29] Pentadexter Kelly Shackle will be with us and we'll get into all of that in more detail.

[00:03:34] But let me bring to the microphone now Dr. Pamela, as many people refer to her.

[00:03:40] And she is a board certified internal medicine physician.

[00:03:44] She's also the chairman of the board of Africa New Life Ministries in Rwanda.

[00:03:48] You might remember a while back we got talking about Rwanda with another one of our guests.

[00:03:52] And I suggested for you younger listeners, maybe you weren't familiar with what happened in Rwanda.

[00:03:57] I suggested maybe you watch the film Hotel Rwanda, but we will get some update from her as well.

[00:04:02] She speaks both nationally and internationally on topics related to such things as evangelism, women's discipleship, health care,

[00:04:12] and this particular book on End of Care, Anticipating Heaven, Spiritual Comfort, and Practical Wisdom for Life's Final Chapters.

[00:04:21] And Dr. Pamela, thank you so very much for joining us today here on Point of View.

[00:04:27] Hi, Kirby.

[00:04:28] It is so great to be with you.

[00:04:31] But we are living in a sobering day of the events of yesterday.

[00:04:39] And I know that you have a lot of thoughts around that, as do I.

[00:04:45] But it's just a really time for mourning.

[00:04:50] It is.

[00:04:50] And maybe very appropriate for your book.

[00:04:53] As a matter of fact, just before I came out on the air here, my wife was telling me about somebody who just died.

[00:04:56] And that's going to affect some people who will be coming on our Greece trip next May.

[00:05:00] So we live in a world where death and dying takes place.

[00:05:04] Back in 1980, I wrote a book with Zondervan, Life, Death, and Beyond.

[00:05:07] And so in some respects, going through your book, which is so much more detailed.

[00:05:13] It reminds me sometimes, Dr. Pamela, that we have individuals that are in the medical profession.

[00:05:19] Perhaps you've said it as well.

[00:05:20] When someone is near the end of life saying you need to get your affairs in order.

[00:05:25] And in some respects, this book, which is coming out next week, has 13 chapters to really help our listeners get their affairs in order, doesn't it?

[00:05:35] It really does.

[00:05:36] And the best time to get our affairs in order is before the crisis occurs, before the call comes, before the diagnosis is made.

[00:05:46] And there are a lot of things that we can do, even when we're young and healthy, that will help diminish the chaos and fear that affects families every day.

[00:06:03] Because the unexpected happens every day, just like we saw yesterday.

[00:06:10] And, you know, as many of the victims were very young, we don't even imagine that we're going to lose them.

[00:06:22] And so by being aware of this constant tension between the reality of the end of life and that we're not aware when it will come.

[00:06:38] And so there's, you know, a message in that that is universal.

[00:06:47] It's really about living our lives as if tomorrow might not come.

[00:06:53] And what does that look like?

[00:06:56] And I speak to that a little bit in the book because many of the patients I described were just like you or I, living a normal life with all the ups and downs that normal life has.

[00:07:13] And then they get a diagnosis that is unexpected.

[00:07:18] And I really enter the book with the idea of reaching those that maybe it's just their first diagnosis.

[00:07:29] It's not a terminal diagnosis, but it still affects them, affects their family.

[00:07:36] And there are different things that we can do to plan ahead.

[00:07:42] But also, if you've ever been in the medical system or healthcare system for any reason, you understand that it can be complex.

[00:07:56] And a lot of times patients don't feel like they're being heard.

[00:08:02] And so that's one of the reasons I really wanted to give practical advice about, you know, these are the questions.

[00:08:10] These are when to ask them.

[00:08:12] These are your rights and what to expect, you know, if you were to go to a hospital.

[00:08:18] All the things that we don't really want to think about.

[00:08:23] But the truth is, if we plan ahead and even really have a clear perspective on our own mortality, it changes how we live today.

[00:08:39] Let's take a break.

[00:08:40] We will continue our conversation about this book coming out next week, Anticipating Heaven.

[00:08:44] We'll be back right after these important messages.

[00:08:57] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:02] Everything you know about income inequality, poverty and other measures of economic well-being in America is wrong.

[00:09:08] Former Senator Phil Graham was on my program to make that case recently.

[00:09:12] He is the co-author of the book, The Myth of American Inequality, How Government Biases Policy Debate.

[00:09:17] I might mention that his co-authors hold to very different political views from him, but they do agree that we need to get the facts right before we can have a policy debate about economic issues.

[00:09:27] The myth of inequality really began back in the 1940s when the Census Bureau excluded all income that was not paid in the equivalent of cash.

[00:09:37] That simplification made sense back then, but made less sense when the 1965 war on poverty expanded government benefits.

[00:09:45] Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps and a hundred other government benefits are not counted as income to the recipients.

[00:09:52] Another popular myth is income inequality is growing.

[00:09:56] When all transfer payments just mentioned are counted as income to the recipients and all taxes are counted as income lost to the taxpayer,

[00:10:03] income inequality is lower today than it was 70 years ago.

[00:10:06] As you might imagine, the bias we just mentioned also affects the official measure of well-being.

[00:10:11] For example, the government does not measure 88% of all transfer payments the poor receive when calculating the poverty rate.

[00:10:17] If those payments are included, then the poverty rate in 2017 would be 2.5%.

[00:10:22] For comparison, the official poverty rate that year was 12%.

[00:10:25] The authors also make specific recommendations for dealing with some of the reasons for income inequality.

[00:10:31] And if we're going to have a productive policy debate about these economic issues,

[00:10:35] we need to listen to these authors and get the facts right.

[00:10:38] I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:46] For a free booklet on a biblical view of Patriot Preachers, go to viewpoints.info slash Patriot Preachers.

[00:10:53] Viewpoints.info slash Patriot Preachers.

[00:10:58] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:11:04] Our topic this first hour is this book, Anticipating Heaven.

[00:11:06] Then we're going to get back into some of the things that have been taking place over the last 48 hours.

[00:11:11] But again, if you'd like to know more about this book, first of all, it is coming out next week.

[00:11:15] We have an advanced copy here right now.

[00:11:17] If you'd like to know more about Pamela Prince-Pyle, Dr. Pamela Pyle, again, you can go to her website.

[00:11:24] It's drpamela.com.

[00:11:27] We also have a blog for Hope for Every Season, which is her blog, and also, of course, information about the book,

[00:11:33] in case you would want to preorder it.

[00:11:36] And there's a way in which you can get it in Kindle or paperback.

[00:11:40] And it is published by our friends at W Publishing, which is an imprint of Thomas Nelson.

[00:11:45] Thirteen chapters.

[00:11:46] We're going to focus some time, first of all, on the first seven chapters preparing your plan.

[00:11:50] But, Dr. Pamela, I thought it was maybe appropriate that both in your book and then on your website,

[00:11:56] you talk about being with this woman who was at the end of life, and she said she was ready for a good death.

[00:12:04] That's a phrase that I have seen people use, but it probably is jarring for others.

[00:12:10] But that, in some respects, is why you put this book together, isn't it?

[00:12:16] Okay, we'll get her back on the air in just a minute.

[00:12:19] And as soon as we are able to do so, we'll take some time looking at some of those other issues.

[00:12:24] Let me just, as a program note, let me just mention, while we're trying to get her back on the air,

[00:12:28] that I did mention that we had lost an individual just recently who was going to come on our Greece trip.

[00:12:34] So I will be talking about that later on this hour, that we still have some openings.

[00:12:39] If you'd like to join us on our trip to Athens and to Thessaloniki and Philippi and Corinth and other places,

[00:12:47] it'll be taking place in May of this year.

[00:12:49] Just a great opportunity for you to join with us.

[00:12:52] And again, as I mentioned just a minute ago, we'll spend some time in the next hour

[00:12:56] certainly trying to get into this issue of what happened in New Orleans.

[00:13:01] And I have been more recently writing about and thinking about the issue of homegrown terrorists.

[00:13:09] That is, we certainly have open borders.

[00:13:12] So there are certainly people that have come over the border that certainly represent a possible threat to us from a terrorist point of view.

[00:13:21] But I think it is also telling that there are some examples.

[00:13:25] And it seems to me that the examples we're talking about here, individual was involved in the killings there in New Orleans,

[00:13:33] or the one that blew himself up in Las Vegas, one from Texas, one from Colorado,

[00:13:39] illustrating if nothing else to me the fact that that's something we're going to probably have to be dealing with on a pretty regular basis.

[00:13:47] So we'll see if we can connect back up with Dr. Pamela Pyle.

[00:13:51] But while we're doing that, let me just mention there are some other resources that we would certainly want to put in your hands.

[00:13:56] And we'll be talking about those today here on Point of View.

[00:13:59] One, of course, my viewpoint's commentary is called American Inequality.

[00:14:04] And it begins to help us understand that sometimes when we are told, I think sometimes very much told about this idea of the fact that there is a wage gap,

[00:14:16] while there is real truth to that, there is a sense that income inequality may not be growing like we've been thought that it was.

[00:14:25] And that gets back to the fact that we, a number of years ago, had the Census Bureau exclude any income that was not paid in an equivalent of cash.

[00:14:36] Now, back then, maybe it made some sense.

[00:14:39] But then by the time we come to what we oftentimes refer to as the Great Society programs in the 1960s under President Lyndon Johnson,

[00:14:48] you had all sorts of benefits, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, and the rest.

[00:14:52] And so those are never counted as income.

[00:14:55] But if you were to count those as income, that gives you a very different picture.

[00:15:00] That's one of the reasons why I took the time to post this again, a piece.

[00:15:05] It was an interview that we did a while back with a former senator of Texas, Phil Graham, along with some others.

[00:15:11] And so that's my commentary there for today.

[00:15:14] But I believe we now have Dr. Pamela back on the phone.

[00:15:18] And it is great to have you once again joining us.

[00:15:22] Thank you.

[00:15:23] I'm not sure what happened, but, you know, technology is a great thing.

[00:15:26] It's also a difficult thing sometimes.

[00:15:29] We live and die by technology on this radio program, so I understand it only so well.

[00:15:34] But again, just when you were off, I talked about the 13 chapters.

[00:15:37] The first seven are preparing your plan.

[00:15:39] But one of the first things we need to know is to actually put information together.

[00:15:45] You have a section on the power of knowledge.

[00:15:48] Know how your health care system works.

[00:15:50] Know your hospitals.

[00:15:51] Know your wishes.

[00:15:52] Know your companions.

[00:15:54] Know your schedule.

[00:15:55] Can you talk us through that?

[00:15:56] Because that seems to be to be one of the key elements in those first couple of chapters.

[00:16:02] It truly is.

[00:16:04] And Sir Francis Bacon, his quote was, knowledge is power.

[00:16:11] And that is really applicable in the health care system because it can seem very foreign.

[00:16:19] And when you have knowledge, you are able to ask the questions that you need to know before you make decisions.

[00:16:30] And so often, and you know, I work on as a physician, so I see this.

[00:16:38] I try not to do this.

[00:16:40] But sometimes physicians are very rushed.

[00:16:45] And so by having your questions in advance, knowing which questions to ask,

[00:16:53] help, and also knowing that if you're not getting the answers that you need, help to find a second or sometimes a third opinion.

[00:17:04] Because this is your health.

[00:17:08] You only have one physical body.

[00:17:11] And so you want to be able to make sure that you're making the right decisions.

[00:17:16] And so by gaining that knowledge, even the simple fact of if you were to call 911, which hospital would you be sent to?

[00:17:28] Is it one that you would want to be sent to?

[00:17:32] Do you have other alternatives?

[00:17:34] So there's a lot of information in those early chapters about equipping patients and their families with the knowledge to help them navigate our system,

[00:17:49] and really any system because it's based on principles.

[00:17:54] And following the principles will be an endless.

[00:17:59] It won't be time sensitive.

[00:18:00] It will help you now or it will help you in the future or even caring for your parents if you're in that stage of life.

[00:18:11] I might just mention, too, you have a section there called the stripping effect, or some people have called it the stripping process.

[00:18:17] And I think that would be comforting for some because you're a doctor and works in hospitals, but you've been a patient as well, as I've heard you talk about.

[00:18:26] And it does seem to me that almost all of us that we've ever been in this situation or been that in a situation or a loved one, they'll be a doctor will ask some question about, well, about your bladder.

[00:18:38] And you're going, well, that's not my problem.

[00:18:40] I got cancer.

[00:18:40] Or they'll ask, or they want you to do this, or they want you to take that.

[00:18:45] And you're just like, I don't get it.

[00:18:47] And sometimes there is a tendency because the health care system is a health care industrial complex.

[00:18:54] You're just sort of one cog in this huge machine.

[00:18:58] And sometimes it's kind of hard to figure out where you fit in all of that, isn't it?

[00:19:03] It truly is.

[00:19:05] And the stripping effect is really something from 1975, but I see it more today.

[00:19:11] And it's really, you know, it begins with handing over your belongings.

[00:19:16] This is more in a hospital setting, but handing your belongings sometimes.

[00:19:23] In fact, a lot of times you're not allowed to bring a loved one in.

[00:19:27] So you're facing a circumstance alone.

[00:19:31] And then if you are admitted to the hospital, you turn over your clothes,

[00:19:38] and a lot of times you're accessed to the outside.

[00:19:42] So it's a very difficult circumstance to go through unless you're prepared

[00:19:49] and kind of know what to expect and then also know what to request in terms of your rights as a patient in a hospital.

[00:20:03] Yeah.

[00:20:04] I need to take a break.

[00:20:05] So knowledge is power.

[00:20:06] I thought when we come back from the break, though, we might get into some of those

[00:20:09] because you talk about the hard, hard choices.

[00:20:13] And that's kind of one of those issues.

[00:20:15] And then I really want to get into some of the other things that you've written about as well,

[00:20:19] which get us into not only preparing your plan, but preparing your mind, heart and soul.

[00:20:25] So certainly a large part of this book could be written by anyone.

[00:20:29] But because of your Christian convictions and your own experience over the years,

[00:20:33] you've got a whole section on that as well.

[00:20:35] So let me just mention real quickly that if you find yourself saying, I'd like to know a little bit more.

[00:20:40] First of all, the book is coming out and you probably could either preorder it or be looking for it in your local bookstore.

[00:20:47] But I might also mention we have a link to DrPamela.com.

[00:20:51] And that is an opportunity for you to journey with her as she offers compassionate guidance through faith centered conversations on suffering,

[00:21:01] grief and death.

[00:21:02] For those of you that would want to follow her on her blog, it's entitled again, this idea of hope and living with the end in mind.

[00:21:11] And that's also linked there.

[00:21:13] And of course, we have information about the book,

[00:21:15] anticipating heaven, spiritual comfort and practical wisdom for life's final chapters.

[00:21:21] It is published by our friends at Thomas Nelson.

[00:21:23] Take a break and we'll come back with more right after this.

[00:21:27] It almost seems like we live in a different world from many people in positions of authority.

[00:21:36] They say men can be women and women, men.

[00:21:40] People are prosecuted differently or not at all, depending on their politics.

[00:21:45] Criminals are more valued and rewarded than law abiding citizens.

[00:21:50] It's so overwhelming, so demoralizing.

[00:21:53] You feel like giving up, but we can't.

[00:21:56] We shouldn't.

[00:21:57] We must not.

[00:21:58] As Winston Churchill said to Britain in the darkest days of World War II,

[00:22:03] Never give in.

[00:22:04] Never give in.

[00:22:05] Never, never, never.

[00:22:07] Never yield to force.

[00:22:09] Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.

[00:22:13] And that's what we say to you today.

[00:22:15] This is not a time to give in, but to step up and join Point of View in providing clarity in the chaos.

[00:22:23] We can't do it alone, but together, with God's help, we will overcome the darkness.

[00:22:29] Invest in biblical clarity today at pointofview.net or call 1-800-347-5151.

[00:22:39] Pointofview.net and 800-347-5151.

[00:22:47] Point of View will continue after this.

[00:22:57] You are listening to Point of View.

[00:23:02] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station.

[00:23:10] And now, here again, is Kirby Anderson.

[00:23:13] Back once again with Dr. Pamela.

[00:23:15] And again, if you would like to know a little bit more about her, you can go to our website, drpamela.com,

[00:23:20] and find out a little bit more about what is involved.

[00:23:23] There is, of course, a blog.

[00:23:24] And of course, this book, Anticipating Heaven, Spiritual Comfort and Practical Wisdom for Life's Final Chapters.

[00:23:31] It is written by her.

[00:23:33] It is published by W Publishing, which is an imprint of Thomas Nelson.

[00:23:37] You should be able to find it in your local bookstore next week, but we're giving you kind of an advanced look.

[00:23:42] And Dr. Pamela, the first thing is there is a section on the hard, hard choices,

[00:23:46] and it talks about some of the wishes that individuals have, the so-called five wishes document.

[00:23:53] And that's important because these questions are not easy to answer.

[00:23:59] Having written a book on death, having a chapter in one of my books on ethics on euthanasia,

[00:24:04] every once in a while I get one of those phone calls, and it's from one of my former seminary students

[00:24:09] or somebody who has picked up the book said,

[00:24:12] okay, we have some real tough decisions, and the doctor encouraged me to get some counsel.

[00:24:17] And they then lay out what I think are sometimes very difficult questions for us to try to work through.

[00:24:24] And yet, if we're not anticipating some of those, whether it's through a living will or a durable power of attorney or something,

[00:24:33] you're going to get caught off guard, aren't you?

[00:24:37] Yes, you absolutely will.

[00:24:39] And the thing about it is if we complete what is now called the gold standard or an advanced care plan,

[00:24:49] when we don't need it, it will help our families make decisions if we are in a state where we can't make them for ourselves.

[00:25:00] And the reality is for Christians in particular, they have, as a demographic,

[00:25:09] often choose more aggressive care and maintaining life support to the detriment of the patient.

[00:25:20] And a lot of that is a misunderstanding of theology.

[00:25:26] Some of the things that I hear is, well, we're waiting on a miracle, and that's why we should keep them on machines.

[00:25:35] But for me, the truth is I have seen some amazing miracles.

[00:25:43] And it looks like we lost her again.

[00:25:44] And so let me just mention to see if we can get her back on the air.

[00:25:48] But and I think what has happened is when somebody is calling her line, it knocks her off the air.

[00:25:52] But we'll see if we can get her back.

[00:25:54] But again, this is one of those places where there are oftentimes some really difficult questions,

[00:25:59] because on the one hand, you can think of in Second Corinthians five,

[00:26:04] the Apostle Paul says to be absent from the body is present with the Lord.

[00:26:08] And so in some respects, we recognize that we don't necessarily have to do anything we can to extend life,

[00:26:16] because we recognize that death, as Jesus and certainly Paul and others have said, is great gain.

[00:26:24] So to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

[00:26:28] Second Corinthians five, eight.

[00:26:29] On the other hand, we also value the sanctity of human life and we don't want to end life prematurely.

[00:26:36] So this is one of those very rare times since I've written a book on Christian ethics in which you really have to equally biblical principles.

[00:26:46] I don't think they're at war with each other, but sometimes it's difficult to sort them out.

[00:26:51] And so in some respects, that's why I thought this chapter about the hard, hard choices would be helpful,

[00:26:58] because that's where it really is difficult.

[00:27:02] And as she pointed out just a minute ago, sometimes because we may become with this idea that we were supposed to save every life in every set circumstance.

[00:27:11] We want to maybe go to extraordinary means to extend life.

[00:27:15] But sometimes what it does is just extend suffering.

[00:27:18] And so there's a sense in which we have to recognize there's a balance between, of course, second Corinthians five.

[00:27:25] And of course, Genesis one and two or Psalm 139 and other passages.

[00:27:30] So those are some key issues.

[00:27:32] And I think we once again have Dr.

[00:27:34] Pamela back on the air.

[00:27:35] We'll see if we can keep working our way through this technology.

[00:27:38] But while you were gone, I just talked a little bit about kind of the idea of recognizing that we want to allow people to go on and be with the Lord.

[00:27:46] But at the same time, we have the idea of the sanctity of human life.

[00:27:49] And as you pointed out, I think sometimes Christians think that they have to do everything to extend life.

[00:27:54] And sometimes what they're trying to do in extending life is just extending suffering.

[00:27:59] And the patient is ready to go on and be with the Lord.

[00:28:02] Is that fair?

[00:28:02] That is actually perfectly said.

[00:28:07] And in the moment, it's very difficult to know if you're making a decision to extend suffering or to extend life.

[00:28:18] And that's why planning ahead and really reflecting on what you would want in certain circumstances is very important.

[00:28:31] And the five wishes document, which I used as an example of an advanced care plan, is very thorough.

[00:28:42] In fact, it was the first ACP written.

[00:28:47] It was written by an attorney that was very close with Mother Teresa.

[00:28:52] And so it has a lot of spiritual aspects as well as their wishes for medical care.

[00:29:01] And it's called the plan with a heart and a soul.

[00:29:06] And at five wishes.org, you can purchase it for $5, a printed copy or a digital version for $15, which, you know, if we do a lot of things randomly with $5, there will be no greater treasure or bargains than the five wishes to do in advance.

[00:29:33] Let me get into a few practical ones that are in your section on anticipating heaven in the storm.

[00:29:39] One is finding a good doctor.

[00:29:41] And then you also have one on paradigm shift, choosing hospice care.

[00:29:46] But what about that?

[00:29:47] You're a doctor.

[00:29:48] And what would you recommend?

[00:29:49] Because part of that question, even if I have the document, even if we're all on the same page as a family,

[00:29:55] some of it has to do with choosing a doctor or even trying to consider hospice care.

[00:30:01] Can you help us with that?

[00:30:03] Yes.

[00:30:03] So choosing a doctor is really more for the early aspect of a health care journey.

[00:30:12] And a lot of times when it comes to someone who's reaching the end of life or the end of care from, let's say, an oncologist or a cardiologist,

[00:30:31] they will often call a palliative care physician, which is someone who takes care of those that are facing the end of life.

[00:30:43] And the truth is, if you were to look at the hospice industry as a whole, it probably has more of a business feel than any other aspect of medicine,

[00:30:58] which is very unlike it started, which was a Christian hospice in the UK in the late 60s.

[00:31:09] So doing your homework for hospice care in advance in your area is very important.

[00:31:17] And you really want a hospice that reflects your values, your spiritual and faith beliefs.

[00:31:31] And then also get to meet the people that would potentially be caring for you in advance.

[00:31:40] In the book, I have a pretty detailed section on how to identify those features, so faith and recommendations.

[00:31:54] But also you want care that is very effective and also well done.

[00:32:05] And so if you were to purchase a book, there are many resources for really the grades for each hospice.

[00:32:17] And that's important because hospice care can be an extremely wonderful experience.

[00:32:29] But it also can turn out to be not a wonderful experience.

[00:32:34] As an example, I had a friend that was a hospice physician, and she was asked by the business owners, which it was non-medical owners.

[00:32:48] It was not a Medicare certified facility.

[00:32:53] She used medicines that were less expensive, still in the category of pain control, versus medicines that were more effective for that patient's care and was more expensive.

[00:33:13] And so that is, you know, a hospice facility is paid per diem, and they can spend all of it on the patient care, which is what they should, versus paying a small amount.

[00:33:32] Let me just mention, too, you've got 15 questions to ask when choosing hospice care, so lots of very good practical material.

[00:33:40] We'll come back for a few more minutes talking about anticipating heaven right after this.

[00:33:56] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:34:01] Back for a few more minutes as we talk with Dr. Pamela.

[00:34:03] It is Dr. Pamela Pyle, and again, forward by John Maxwell, which I think you will appreciate his very insightful forward to the book as well,

[00:34:13] Anticipating Heaven, Spiritual Comfort of Practical Wisdom for Life's Final Chapters, really does help you kind of begin to know how to navigate through this kind of foreign world of health care

[00:34:25] to really prepare maybe, as we've been talking about, an end-of-life plan.

[00:34:29] But also, just to, maybe as we conclude, Dr. Pamela, talk about this issue of heaven, whether it's been Randy Alcorn who's been on this program,

[00:34:40] or Lee Strobel, or a variety of others who have written books about heaven.

[00:34:44] That is, of course, our heavenly destination as believers.

[00:34:48] And you've really devoted some time to that as well.

[00:34:51] You focus on, for example, the power of prayer in God's sovereign care, the issue of hope and suffering, which was very powerful,

[00:35:00] some of the preparation, and then finally a chapter on the good death, a good death.

[00:35:05] So talk about that, because it does seem to me that, as a doctor, you're looking at the medical, physical issues,

[00:35:12] but as a Christian, you're also looking at the emotional, psychological, and spiritual issues as well, aren't you?

[00:35:19] You know, yes, and I have to say the latter is the most important message that you'll find in this book,

[00:35:29] is regardless of our circumstances, our suffering, our pain, and even our dying, as believers in Jesus Christ,

[00:35:42] we have this amazing destiny that the only way to reach heaven is through the door of death.

[00:35:52] And so if we don't look as deaf as just an enemy, because we know that Jesus conquered death,

[00:36:01] we can see it as a friend that walks us into the arms of our loving Savior.

[00:36:11] And what I really had hoped through writing this book, and really the last half of the book has been my favorite,

[00:36:25] because we can treat someone with medicine, and we may even cure a patient with medicine.

[00:36:35] But that patient, as we all, will still die.

[00:36:40] And so the one true hope for healing is our faith.

[00:36:47] And the beauty that I have seen in practicing medicine as a Christian doctor,

[00:36:54] I did eight years without faith, and Jesus chased me down to the end of myself.

[00:37:03] And I have devoted myself to loving him and sharing his name.

[00:37:09] But as a Christian physician, there are so many beautiful things that can occur in the dying process,

[00:37:21] and especially at the very end.

[00:37:25] And that's, it is hard to explain through a written word or even what I'm telling you now,

[00:37:36] what it's like to be with someone as they are crossing over.

[00:37:41] And in these rare occasions, and I think Lee talks about it in his book,

[00:37:50] you will see someone experience heaven while they're still here.

[00:37:59] And I've seen that with a friend that was passing and had been unconscious until the very last moment.

[00:38:08] He sat up in bed and slapped his hands twice and said,

[00:38:13] Jesus, Jesus, and lay back down and took his last breath.

[00:38:18] And sometimes they'll say it's so beautiful or something like that.

[00:38:21] And just the veil between heaven and earth, I think, is getting thinner anyway.

[00:38:27] I'm wondering if some of these apparitions in the sky are something from the heavenly realm.

[00:38:33] But nevertheless, that is certainly an illustration of that as well.

[00:38:37] And just before we wind down, I want to mention that you not only have such practical material in the body of the 13 chapters,

[00:38:45] you have a number of resources at the end when decisions should be shared,

[00:38:50] guide to documents and advanced planning, understanding brain death,

[00:38:54] understanding persistent vegetative state, planning for peace checklist,

[00:38:58] the end-of-life timeline signs and symptoms, even a dictionary of serious illness terms.

[00:39:04] First of all, I think any listener should get a copy of this because it would be very helpful.

[00:39:10] As you all at one time or another heard somebody say, you need to get your affairs in order.

[00:39:15] But also as an individual that from time to time gets to speak in seminaries,

[00:39:20] I would say that if you are a pastor or you are an elder, you're a deacon, you're a Sunday school leader,

[00:39:26] I think you really need this book because you will be dealing with many of these issues.

[00:39:31] And the resources that, Dr. Pamela, you've put into this book are excellent.

[00:39:35] So first of all, I know the book's not coming out until next week,

[00:39:39] so anybody can order it right now and get it delivered or, of course, be looking for it in your local bookstore next week.

[00:39:46] But if nothing else, I want to thank you, first of all, for writing the book.

[00:39:50] Thank you for giving us an hour today and putting up with some of our technological glitches for one reason or another.

[00:39:57] But it has been a delight to have you on the program.

[00:39:59] So thank you for being with us today.

[00:40:01] Thank you so much, Kirby.

[00:40:03] And I do want to say you're mentioning the pastors.

[00:40:06] We do have ancillary Bible study and church resources.

[00:40:12] And if a pastor wants a book, they can email me, drpamela at drpamela.com,

[00:40:19] and I'll send it to them along with the email resources, just, excuse me, the church resources,

[00:40:29] because it can be taught within the church and then the church members teach others.

[00:40:38] Sure.

[00:40:39] This very important journey.

[00:40:40] I might just mention, if you go to drpamela.com, right-hand point, hit resources, then scroll down.

[00:40:47] There's one that's called church resources, and that's where you can preorder or claim your gifts that she was just talking about.

[00:40:54] So all of that is on our website.

[00:40:56] Or, of course, you can just simply go to drpamela.com.

[00:40:59] Dr. Pamela, thank you for being with us, and it's been a delight.

[00:41:01] And thank you for writing the book and joining us today here on Point of View.

[00:41:05] Thank you, Kirby, and thank you for what you do.

[00:41:09] You're changing the world.

[00:41:10] Thank you.

[00:41:11] Thank you.

[00:41:12] Thank you.

[00:41:13] Just before we take a break, I did mention this just a minute ago, and that is that we do have our trip to Greece.

[00:41:20] We knew we were going to have one or two openings still here in January.

[00:41:25] We've now, as I mentioned just in passing, lost someone,

[00:41:28] and so we know that there are going to be another few openings for our trip to Greece, which will take place May 17th to the 27th.

[00:41:38] This is an opportunity to go to Thessaloniki and to go to Philippi and Berea and Ephesus and Corinth and Athens,

[00:41:48] and just an incredible tour.

[00:41:50] Perhaps the last time we'll do something like this.

[00:41:53] And so if you found yourself hearing about this but had not made a decision about it, I'm bringing it up now because later this month,

[00:42:02] we have to give back some of the seats that are actually reserved on the airplane.

[00:42:07] That doesn't mean you still couldn't go, but then we couldn't guarantee you the price.

[00:42:12] So if you're interested in this, probably the best thing to do would simply go to the website pointofview.net,

[00:42:19] and you can either leave us an email or, of course, if you want to call the order line number, it's 800-347-5151.

[00:42:28] 800-347-5151.

[00:42:30] Of course, you could also use that to give your gift because, as we pointed out, we've just about finished off that second matching challenge.

[00:42:38] But there's still some room on that, and your gift would be actually counted in 2025, but it would still be matched dollar for dollar.

[00:42:44] So that's still a pretty good deal.

[00:42:46] And again, for those of you that are just joining us, we did make our goal.

[00:42:50] We did make that first match.

[00:42:51] We're trying to finish off the second one.

[00:42:53] If you would like to do so, there are ways to do so.

[00:42:56] You can click on the banner at pointofview.net.

[00:42:58] If you want to leave us an email or make a phone call, 800-347-5151.

[00:43:03] We come back.

[00:43:04] It's time to talk about homegrown terrorism here in America.

[00:43:08] We'll be back right after this.

[00:43:11] The Bible tells us not to worry, and yet there is a lot of worrying stuff in our world today.

[00:43:19] Thankfully, the Bible doesn't stop at telling us not to worry.

[00:43:24] God gives us a next step.

[00:43:26] He says we need to pray.

[00:43:29] But sometimes even knowing what to pray can be difficult.

[00:43:33] And that is why Point of View has relaunched our Pray for America movement,

[00:43:38] a series of weekly emails to guide you in prayer for our nation.

[00:43:44] Each week, you'll receive a brief update about a current issue affecting Americans,

[00:43:49] along with a written prayer that you can easily share with others.

[00:43:54] We'll also include a short free resource for you in each email so you can learn more about the issue at hand.

[00:44:02] Will you commit to Pray for America?

[00:44:05] Go to pointofview.net.

[00:44:08] Click on the Pray for America banner at the top of the page to subscribe.

[00:44:14] Again, that's pointofview.net.

[00:44:18] Click on the Pray for America banner.

[00:44:21] Let's pray together for God to make a difference in America.

[00:44:28] Point of View will continue after this.

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