Point of View January 16, 2025 – Hour 2 : Films for All Seasons

[00:00:04] Across America, Live, this is Point of View, Kirby Anderson.

[00:00:20] Let me begin with a question. Do you ever particularly watch a film during a particular holiday season? Maybe at Christmas, you watch the Christmas Carol, or maybe it's a wonderful life, certainly at Easter, maybe on television you see the Ten Commandments.

[00:00:36] There is something about using film in a way that might really deepen your understanding, and this book that we're going to be talking about really helps us understand all sorts of films that we could use during different times during the church calendar. In some respects, we're coming back to the issue of film again. You might remember that on Monday, we had two guests in studio. We were talking about this new film, Brave the Dark, in which we had both the writer and the producer in studio with us and talked about that film.

[00:01:07] And then even the other day, we talked about the particular Lord of the Rings because, of course, we had one of our guests by phone who was talking about Tolkien, J.J.R. Tolkien. So in some respects, this wasn't intended, but once again, we are coming back to this very important issue of film. And the particular book that we're talking about here is Films for All Seasons, Experiencing the Church Year at the Movies.

[00:01:36] And it is written by Abby Olchesi, who is a writer on film and popular culture and on faith. Her work has appeared in Think Christian and even in places like RogerEbert.com. She's also the film editor of The Pitch. And Abby, thank you for joining us today here on Point of View. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Let's talk about the concept, which you talk about early on, of watching films as a spiritual practice.

[00:02:05] Each year, we encourage parents, if they have kids going off to college, to go to our Mind Games conference. And one of the sessions that we do in the evening that is done by somebody who's a lot more experienced in this regard than I am is on how to watch a film. And it is an opportunity to get them to start thinking about a film from a worldview perspective. As a matter of fact, we had some of the kids say, you've ruined the films for me because now I go on the film. I said, okay, what's the point of view here?

[00:02:35] What are they trying to accomplish? All the rest. But there is a sense in which you point out that watching films can be a way to really begin to enrich and even engage some of these great spiritual ideas. Can you explain that? Yeah, for sure. And I mean, having people talk about how to watch a movie critically, I think, is a great way to start because that's how it started for me.

[00:02:59] I was kind of trying to balance the movies that I loved with what I was learning in church and how some of those messages conflicted with each other, how some of those messages kind of complemented each other in surprising ways. And I think that's what I was thinking about, is basically just kind of seeing the parallels between the stuff that I was watching and the things that I was learning and trying to figure out how to make that make sense in my brain. And I think one of the things I enjoy doing with this book, which is a reflection of what I enjoy doing in my career, is kind of making those connections all the time.

[00:03:28] Like, for example, I think I use this in the book, there was a moment when I was in, I think, like middle or high school at a Maundy Thursday service at my church. And I felt this very specific kind of emotional rumbling inside me of just kind of the drama of that particular moment of the church year, right, where we're dealing with feelings of tragedy and betrayal and uncertainty and not knowing what's going to happen next.

[00:03:52] And I realized that I had felt the same way the last time that I had watched The Fellowship of the Ring, which the first movie in the Lord of the Rings trilogy and the book as well, obviously, kind of end in a similar way where everything's kind of at a tipping point and you're not sure where it's going to go. But, you know, story-wise, this is the first entry in a trilogy, so the story isn't over. It's going to continue and things will probably resolve. But at that moment, you don't quite know how.

[00:04:17] So I think there are all kinds of dramatic reflections of some of the same things that we see in the Bible that are reflected in a lot of popular storytelling. And I think from a, at least from an artistic perspective, I see that. And I think that's as common as it is because there's truth to that, right? Like it comes from somewhere true, but also because it's such a compelling thing that you can't really look away from it, which I like to think that the Bible in its most compelling moments is that for me as well and for other people too.

[00:05:11] Thank you. Thank you.

[00:05:46] Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:06:14] ahead a little bit, we get All Saints and All Souls Day, which kind of fall at the very end of the church year where we're celebrating significant figures in the history of Christianity, but also significant figures within our own lives who kind of helped our own spiritual formation. So I like it because as somebody who sees the world in story a lot of the time, it kind of takes you on a journey from the very beginning to all the way through to kind of the legacy of the church and where we're headed and thinking about all of the

[00:06:42] stuff that we've just been through and how we carry those legacies with us moving forward. Let me just before we take a break talk about how to maybe use this effectively and I love what you put together because when we read Scripture we talk about reading the passage, looking at any cross-references, maybe doing some time of meditation and how this reading connects to your life and then contemplation, what God may be trying to tell you. You use that same three-level kind of idea with a film

[00:07:10] viewing, what were the moments in the film that stood out to you, what's your reaction. Level two, the idea of meditation, how do the themes in the movie connect to your life and what perspective are you asking, maybe or trying to understand or get some perspective on. And then finally contemplation, what might God be inviting you to consider. So in some respects, some of the ways in which we analyze Scripture can be used as sort of a

[00:07:37] model for how we analyze some of these films. Oh yeah, absolutely. I think it's kind of an invitation to critical thinking in general that it's, I think it's influenced the way that I watch movies and influenced the way that I look at Scripture simultaneously. And it's also influenced the way that I just interact with the world when I'm given a new piece of news or a new issue that that I care about or that people close to me care about. There's always kind of that level of

[00:08:07] your first reaction, what makes you feel that way, what truth there is in it, what you would like to know more about, and just kind of letting, kind of letting yourself be curious, giving yourself permission to be curious. And I think it was very helpful that this book came out through InterVarsity Press because my parents were former InterVarsity staffers and they were very familiar with the process of manuscript study and taught me how to do that. And so I think that it was a very

[00:08:35] informative process basically throughout the whole thing. We're going to take a break and we'll come back and we'll look at kind of nine different sections in the book, films for all seasons. We'll be back right after this. This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson. How will the new administration deal with

[00:09:04] the China challenge? We can get some perspective from Senator Marco Rubio's book, Decades of Decadence. He will soon be confirmed as Secretary of State and exposes China's attacks on four key elements of American strength, good local jobs, stable families, geographical communities, and a sovereign nation that serves as a beacon of freedom and prosperity. He explained in his book that the U.S. and other Western countries made the false assumption that nation states would be more focused on economic

[00:09:31] interest and therefore would not go to war with each other. Politicians started making decisions that benefited this system and stopped making decisions about what was good for America. This empowered China and now we are heavily dependent upon them for all sorts of essential goods. We assume countries would be doing what was good for the global economy and international order. Senator Rubio explained in my radio interview that China didn't get that memo and Russia didn't get

[00:09:57] that memo and Iran didn't get that memo and North Korea didn't get that memo. Many countries have been operating in their national interest and bringing China and the World Trade Organization didn't change China, it changed America. We also need to address the myth that Chinese aggression is due to tensions between China and America that were created by U.S. foreign policy. It was convenient to blame Donald Trump for Chinese aggression. That argument no longer works. For the last four years, we have seen the

[00:10:25] feckless Biden foreign policy. China has become more aggressive, not less. Trump wasn't the problem. Chinese global intentions are the reason for its actions. Donald Trump and Marco Rubio seem ready to face the daunting challenge of an overly aggressive China. They need your prayers. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view. For a free copy of Kirby's booklet, A Biblical View on Critical Race Theory, go to

[00:10:53] viewpoints.info.com. You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Back once again with Abby L. Chelsea. Again, as we talk about films for all seasons, it is a book published by InterVarsity Press. Maybe find it in your local bookstore, but we have information about it as well on our website, pointofview.net. Let me, for those of you that maybe have a small group where you might

[00:11:21] occasionally want to go to a film and use that for a discussion, or maybe you would like to follow through the church calendar, you can do so. We're going to go through the nine different sections if we can, but at the very end of each particular film that Abby mentions, there is a set of discussion questions, so it's almost plug and play. It would not take much to either watch the film, because again,

[00:11:47] most of those would be available on DVD or streaming or something like that, or if the film might be just be too difficult to deal with, you could go to YouTube and maybe just watch the trailer and begin a discussion, or maybe a few key elements. Oftentimes there are those that are available, and that is the way in which you could maybe use this in an effective ministry, especially for young people that are

[00:12:11] sort of into the arts and films, and this is something I think would be very helpful. So Abby, the first one is Advent. You've got four different possible films as an illustration there, and some of them relate to such things as hope or joy or faith or peace. In some respects, that is also helpful, because if somebody

[00:12:37] wanted to emphasize this, or for even people teaching a Sunday school lesson, or even pastors listening right now that wanted to use an illustration of hope, they might pull something out of a film that you mentioned, or to illustrate the idea of joy to pull something out of a film. So in some respects, this is helpful not only for the film buff out there, but for just the average Christian who lives in

[00:13:03] this world where we're surrounded by people that have gone to the films, and this becomes a great opportunity for a great discussion, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, and that was kind of the hope behind all of it, not to, you know, copy Advent too much. But yeah, that first section of Advent, the themes for each of those chapters are part of like the traditional themes that accompany an Advent wreath. And I think some of them might change from from church to church, but those are more or less kind of the four core

[00:13:33] ones. And I've had I've had a lot of great conversations with folks who are trying to, they're interested in using the book either with their small group or with their church, or even just with their family, they have somebody in their family who really likes movies, and they want to kind of use that as a point of connection. And I think all of those are great ways to use this book. I've even used it at a few movie nights at my own church and have had really wonderful conversations with with other people there.

[00:13:56] Let's talk about each one for just a minute. Hope, the last Jedi, Faith, the bishop's wife, of course, joy, pattings and bear, which I get a kick out of, and peace, Joyce Noel. In some respects, if people say, well, I'm not really into the Star Wars thing. I don't know how you could not be because most people have it. Or maybe I've never seen that film, Bishop's Wife. There was, of course, a newer version of it. But you talk about one of the older ones in 1947. There are some ways in which you can kind of deep,

[00:14:26] dig deeply into some of these films and really surface some of the themes that actually are very key to this time of Advent, aren't they? Yeah. And the idea with that, the hope with that is that I can kind of encourage people to, even if it's not a movie that they particularly love, to see why other people might like it. Just because that opens up a spot of connection and

[00:14:51] not everybody agrees on taste. But I think anybody who's interested in a conversation in movies can kind of be interested in the context and sort of the stuff that makes that movie go. So hopefully there's a little bit of something in here for everybody. The Bishop's Wife particularly is one that I really like coming back to because it was made in the 40s, but it has such a surprisingly modern message and really compassionate message that accompanies it that always surprises me when

[00:15:19] I watch it. So that was one that I was really excited to kind of put in here alongside a little bit, you know, some more contemporary films to kind of encourage people to widen the scope of their viewing. And I like the fact that you give a range because you might have some people that say, well, I'm not really into Star Wars, but okay, I might dip into this one that came out in the 1940s. Or, well, do we have one for the kids? Yeah, we got Paddington and Paddington 2, which you suggest

[00:15:47] would be a way to surface joy. And how could you not get a smile on your face as I just started laughing just even using the words Paddington? Because again, you give different options, which I think are helpful because oftentimes what happens, and I'm sure you're like a lot of families. Okay, what are we going to watch tonight? Okay, what DVD do we have out here? What streaming service do we have here? You know, what's on Netflix? Okay. And there's no rhyme or reason to it. Your book gives

[00:16:15] us some rhythm, some rhyme, and really a sense of maybe after the film is over, whether it's in the home or whether you went to the movies, most of the time it's in the home now, you can have some discussion. And those lively discussions sometimes are as fruitful as watching the film itself, aren't they? Yeah, yeah, they really can be. And I tried to keep the discussion questions in there, not so much as like a quiz, like, did you see the movie, but like some of getting at some of the

[00:16:44] themes that are kind of contained within the movie and how you might see that reflected in it, because everybody's perspective is going to be a little bit different. So like, I obviously have mine, which is presented in the essay. But I love the idea that people can come away from, you know, two or three people can watch the same movie and have two or three different ideas about what worked for them and what didn't, what they saw, what made them curious. And that's kind of the fun of discussing movies, right, is to kind of have that hopefully really friendly and constructive

[00:17:12] debate about what it is that moves you about art. I find lots of times people say, I saw such and such. And I said, I didn't even pay attention to that. And you caught that. And so again, that's one of the advantages of having a group. Well, let me finish off. Of course, we've mentioned Advent. Then you have a chapter and a section on Christmas and a section on Epiphany. I might put those two together, because those are some various movies that people might think of. And most of the time,

[00:17:40] if you were to ask people what they would watch at Christmas, it's going to probably be things like ones I just mentioned, some kind of Christmas theme. Instead, you pick some that aren't Christmas themes per se, but they really emphasize the birth of Christ. Yeah, exactly. So I've been a part of some really great conversations with Children of Men that over the years kind of really helped me to see it as a nativity movie to the point where I was kind of

[00:18:09] mad at myself that it took me as long as I did to figure out that that was what it was. And it's, I hope when folks read the essay that they can see those parallels really made clearly so that they don't have to wait as long as I did to figure it out. But so there's that. And then there's The Night of the Hunter, which does, it ends at Christmas. And so like you can say, in that sense, it's kind of nominally a Christmas movie. But I think it's also got a lot of really good, both of those movies

[00:18:35] together have a lot of really good themes that kind of emphasize the birth of Christ, the vulnerability of the birth of Christ, and kind of the truth of the kind of the circumstances that everybody who was there would have been feeling in some way, shape or form, whether it's the Shepherds, or Mary and Joseph, the kings coming to visit. Like there's certainly kind of a sense that this is something that doesn't

[00:19:01] get done by one person, right? That it's all communal, that everybody needs to kind of come together to help this happen, that prophecies get enacted by a number of people, right? That are all kind of chosen and work together. Again, one of the largest sections of your book is on Lent, in which you really have six chapters. And let me, since we're coming to a break in about two minutes, maybe just to get it started by the first one is just the idea of Ash Wednesday. And then maybe you

[00:19:31] can kind of just give us an overview and we'll get into the details after the break of taking people through each week of Lent. Can you explain that? Yeah. So Lent is such a dramatic season. It's, I think, probably my favorite in the entire calendar, just because of the themes that it asks us to reckon with. And I tried to set up that section of the book so that kind of takes you on a similar journey from recognizing our own mortality to

[00:19:56] kind of admission of, admission of sin and kind of thinking about the systemic implications of that, how we can overcome it, the kinds of people we want to be, and what it looks like after we've kind of reached our own sort of place of enlightenment, but the world still looks the same and how we kind of live with those two things in concert together. Well, we're going to take a break. And when we come back, one of the things we might talk about for just a minute is one of the films in that Lenten

[00:20:22] period is Groundhog Day, which I'm sure most of you probably have heard of. And I thought it was kind of interesting because I would never have put that in the list, but really she spent some time talking about how to exult in monotony and time loops and cycles of sin and some other things that probably would never have occurred to you. So again, it's all part of this book. I'll hold it up for those of you watching online and it is in films for all seasons. I'd be able to chase you

[00:20:49] with us. And let me just mention, I suspect most of you just want to sit back and take some notes and listen, but if you'd like to join the conversation, I'll open up the phones 800-351-1212. Perhaps you have used some films in your own ministry with young people or to begin a discussion about the gospel. Perhaps you'd like to add to some of that as well. So if you'd like to join us, 1-800-351-1212. If you'd like to know more about her or about the book, we have information about all

[00:21:17] of that on our website at pointofview.net. Let's take a break. We'll be back with more right after this. In 19th century London, two towering historical figures did battle, not with guns and bombs, but words and ideas. London was home to Karl Marx, the father of communism,

[00:21:44] and legendary Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon. London was in many ways the center of the world, economically, militarily, and intellectually. Marx sought to destroy religion, the family, and everything the Bible supports. Spurgeon stood against him, warning of socialism's dangers. Spurgeon understood Christianity is not just religious truth. It is truth for all of life.

[00:22:11] Where do you find men with that kind of wisdom to stand against darkness today? Get the light you need on today's most pressing issues delivered to your inbox when you sign up for the Viewpoints commentary at pointofview.net slash signup. Every weekday in less than two minutes, you'll learn how to be a person of light to stand against darkness in our time. It's free,

[00:22:36] so visit pointofview.net slash signup right now. Pointofview.net slash signup. Point of View will continue after this. You are listening to Point of View.

[00:23:02] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station. And now, here again, is Kirby Anderson. Continue our conversation today with A.B. O. Chessie as we talk about films for all seasons. And Abby has been with us talking about a couple of issues, and we'll get into Lent again, and then Holy Week and Easter. But again, one of the sections that you focus some time and attention

[00:23:31] on is Lent. And it does seem to me that that is everything from Ash Wednesday all the way through the Lenten seasons. But I did point out one of the things that may have surprised some people is Groundhog Day. And yet, I remember that, I think it was even Roger Ebert at one point, and didn't really like the film, and later came back and thought it was very significant. My producer just talked about when he would teach on some of these issues. He would use that.

[00:23:58] I know we've done a week of radio programs years ago in a printed form on some of that. So, in some respects, that gets us back to this issue of sin, of cycles, of meditation, and it all kind of fits into some of the things that you talk about in your book, Films for All Seasons. Yeah. And, yeah, Groundhog Day is a movie that I grew up watching. And so the book is, initially,

[00:24:25] it was based on an article series that I did for St. Christian during the pandemic, which, as you may remember, Groundhog Day was a really popular movie during the pandemic. Yes, for sure. Yeah, the concept of time loop movies was very kind of familiar to everybody. We were all kind of stuck at home, and every day kind of looked the same. And it just kind of got me to thinking about the journey of Bill Murray's character

[00:24:49] in that movie, where he starts off as being kind of jaded and thinking that this job, this world, is kind of beneath him. And by being forced to be stuck in the same day over and over and over again, he comes to recognize sort of his smallness in the face of everything, like the place, the spot that he sits in in this system and how he can kind of, in some small way, make it a little bit better every day, which I think was something that we all kind of,

[00:25:17] a lot of people, I think, found that kind of encouraging during a time where we were trying to be good neighbors and good friends and good family members to each other. But the ways in which we could do that were sort of limited based on, you know, in comparison to what we've been able to do in the past. So when it came time to write the book, I was thinking about that in terms of not just trying to be a light in the darkness

[00:25:40] in some small way, but also the fact that kind of like Phil Conner's experience, our experiences in the world tend not to change that much. Like the world itself still has a lot of the same systemic problems that repeat themselves day after day after year after year. And yet we, at the end of Lent, are kind of in this space where we've confessed our sins. We've thought about the kinds of people that we want to be.

[00:26:07] We've thought about the systems and struggles that make it hard to be that kind of person and how we can try to, with the help of communities of faith and people supporting us, try to overcome that. But now we're stuck in this space where maybe we have reached some form of enlightenment that the rest of the world still looks the same. And how do we operate in a world that still looks like that when we ourselves are different? And I think Groundhog Day kind of offers some really interesting lessons in that regard. And again, you've also got chapters on the dark night. There are no white nights.

[00:26:37] And who do you turn to in pressure and bad times at El Royale? I'm bored of men like you. I mean, there's some other great themes that run through that. But in order to maybe finish the book, let's, if we can, move from Lent to Holy Week. And that gets us, of course, to something you talked about, Monday, Thursday. And the film that you use there is The Mission. Now, again, that's not for faint-hearted people, but whether it's that one or Good Friday, Rogue One, the Star Wars movie,

[00:27:05] there are some ways in which when you come to Holy Week, there are some films that elicit some of those same kind of emotions that we should be feeling as we work our way through the church calendar. Yeah, absolutely. And The Mission, kind of like Groundhog Day, was a movie that I grew up watching. But I think my parents introduced that movie to me when I was maybe in high school. And I have just a very vivid memory of having a conversation with my mom for maybe like an hour after the fact about the events of that movie

[00:27:34] and how difficult it was and how unfair some parts of it felt. And that conversation itself also reminded me of kind of when I first encountered the concept of Holy Week and the death of Christ and the resurrection of Christ as a kid. And just being kind of bumping up against this wall of just why is it like this? Why is it not fair? The world is supposed to work out for good. How come it doesn't in this really epic way?

[00:28:01] And I feel like The Mission is kind of, I mean, it's based in part in the real experiences of Jesuit missionaries who were working in South America at that time. And so it's kind of writ large, an example of that. And it's really interesting to kind of see how each of those characters deals with the concept of grace and what that grace requires of you, the kind of sacrifice that it requires of you,

[00:28:28] and how the world, the rest of the world, just often does not work that way. And when those things are in conflict, it can get really, really, really messy. And I think the movie does a beautiful job of exploring that particular, like one particular instance of that that I think is pretty widely applicable. And Rogue One for me kind of works in a similar way to, as I mentioned with Lord of the Rings, you have characters who are kind of at a precipice. They've made a sacrifice.

[00:28:58] Basically, they've sacrificed their lives, and they don't know whether or not the sacrifice that they've just made actually worked, like if it was worth all of the work that they put into it. But we as viewers, obviously, we know that the rest of the Star Wars story doesn't exist without them doing that. So there's this kind of interesting kind of disconnect between what the characters know and we know, and I think that's a really fascinating tool. Again, that brings us to Easter. And I thought, again, since we just talked about Lord of the Rings,

[00:29:24] how about the Chronicles of Narnia, the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe? Because then we have all sorts of situations, reconsidering Edmund, you call it, and also just, of course, Aslan's death and resurrection. This would be sort of a natural, but again, you try to pull out a couple of other themes, don't you, that maybe we should be thinking about? For sure.

[00:29:48] Sure. So I think one of the, I mean, obviously the parallels in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe to the death and resurrection of Christ are pretty clear, and they're really obvious, right? Like C.S. Lewis is writing that story, the story of the crucifixion for kids. And so there's that. One of the things that always kind of bugged me as a kid, and something that I found really interesting about the film adaptation of that movie, which came out when I was in high school, was the way that it treated Edmund.

[00:30:18] Like we understand that he's supposed to be kind of an example of, you know, Christ being willing to die for everybody, even people that don't seem like they're worthy. But the book doesn't really offer a whole lot of context as to why he's like that. I think it works really well as like kind of a fable, but the more I thought about it, the older I got, the more it kind of confused me. And I think the film does a pretty good job of offering some suggestions as to what might have led Edmund to be the way that he is.

[00:30:46] And I think that that leads him to be kind of a richer character, at least for me. And I think it makes his transformation really interesting in terms of what we do when we realize that we're in the wrong and how we atone for having been complicit in some, you know, not great things that we did because we thought that was what we wanted at the time. But it was an illegitimate means to get a thing that we really had, that we thought would answer a deeper want that didn't.

[00:31:14] And so it makes me more thankful for the death and resurrection of Christ because I find it as like a really effective illustration of what that means for me personally. Again, we could get into a couple others under Easter, but just to keep it moving, let's, if we can, focus on Ascension Day. And you talk a little bit about that as well because there are some very important themes. Of course, one that comes from Midnight Special or Avatar.

[00:31:43] Speak to that issue for just a minute because that may be, again, a connection that people might not necessarily readily see. For sure. And Midnight Special is, that was kind of a lesser-seen movie that I would love for more people to watch because I think it's a really interesting portrayal of what I think discipleship looks like from maybe an emotional standpoint. There are characters in that movie who are kind of going through something.

[00:32:10] They're trying to help a kid who clearly has some kind of supernatural abilities and who said that he has specific needs that they want to help him meet. And they only know what they know, which is not very much. And so the fact that they love this kid so much and that they want what's best for him, to me, kind of reflects some of the stuff that we see in the Gospels about the ways that the disciples interact with Jesus.

[00:32:33] And Avatar is, I think, kind of an interesting concept of, like, kind of spiritual transcendence, kind of the other side of that coin is the idea of making all things new and the way that the kind of forms of deity in James Cameron's sci-fi movie are kind of reflective of the idea of kind of spiritual connection, connection with something that is sort of beyond the physical.

[00:33:00] And the movie has some really beautiful ways of doing that. One of them is through the main character's own transformation from his human body, which is, you know, broken, he's paralyzed, into the body of the Nazi that he's been kind of using as his own avatar for most of the film and then finally gets to kind of properly commune with into this new body and this new beautiful and amazing place that is, I mean, literally it's up in the stars.

[00:33:27] So there's some connection there that kind of makes it another interesting parallel to Ascension. We'll take a break and then when we come back we'll talk about Pentecost and All Saints Day and All Souls Day, all that coming up right after this.

[00:33:40] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Pay for a few more minutes as we talk about the film, Films for All Seasons.

[00:34:05] The book deals with Advent, Christmas, Epiphany, Lent, the Holy Week, Easter, Ascension Day, but last two, Pentecost. And you have here Guardians of the Galaxy, Imperfect Heroes for an Imperfect World, that's for sure, as well as a turbocharged community of faith, Fast and Furious. So these are opportunities to think about the issue of the Great Commission and Pentecost

[00:34:32] and the time in which the Holy Spirit came to earth and to believers. And you take this as an opportunity to, once again, look at some of these important films. Yeah. And Pentecost was initially kind of a difficult one for me. Again, when I was writing this as part of an article series for Think Christian, I think Pentecost was the last column that I was assigned to write on. And at the time, that was, I mean, it was just a word that I knew, right?

[00:35:01] I knew that Pentecost was a thing. I was familiar with the passage in Acts. But I had grown up going to churches that didn't really talk about it much beyond that. And so I was really kind of coming up empty as to what deeper themes there were to kind of dig into. And as I did some research, I realized that there's a lot of opportunity to talk about kind of the international nature of the church, the really diverse nature of what the church has become.

[00:35:28] And there's also an opportunity to talk about what our own communities look like and the diversity to be found within those. Like how are we kind of noticing the many different backgrounds and needs and interests and abilities of the people within our own church communities? Are we giving those needs opportunities to be filled? Are we giving those abilities opportunities to be used in ways that are constructive and help to build the community and help people feel appreciated? And it turns out that superhero movies are actually a really good analog for that

[00:35:57] because they are movies about, like in the case of Guardians of the Galaxy and also kind of the Avengers movies too, of characters who come from different backgrounds and don't necessarily get along at first and don't even necessarily want to, but are coming together to serve a greater purpose. And through that purpose, discover that they have abilities and interests and needs that kind of complement each other. They become their own community and their own family, and they're tested in the ways that healthy communities often need to be tested.

[00:36:26] And so that became a really fun opportunity to kind of dig into those movies. And Guardians of the Galaxy is one that has really thorny and very vulnerable characters that really need to learn that lesson more than almost anybody else. And so it was kind of fun to be able to dig into that and show the ways that that kind of illustrates community at work. And when you read Fast and Furious, that's about family as well. You have all these very diverse individuals, an FBI agent and a guy that's heading up a gang of thieves

[00:36:55] and a lawman and all sorts of things. But over time, they all become a family, don't they? Yeah, yeah. And I know that that's kind of a particularly ridiculous one, but part of the reason it's in there is that I'm trying to encourage folks to look really expansively. Like, you can find messages of interest and curiosity and value in almost any genre, including really goofy, like, action films.

[00:37:18] And the Fast and Furious movies have always been kind of discussed and lauded for the fact that they have a really diverse cast. They have international casts, and the people within each of those characters are given plenty of opportunity to really be their own person, which is something that for a long time a lot of Hollywood movies were not very good at doing and still aren't in some cases. And so this kind of became an opportunity to see, to not only appreciate that,

[00:37:46] but to also appreciate kind of the deeper implications of what that could mean. So it is kind of a goofy movie, but it's also one that, and that entry in particular, is one that kind of deals with kind of conflicting and expanded ideas of what that family of characters kind of means. Let's see if we can. Last one, All Saints Day, November 1st, All Souls Day, November 2nd. And, of course, there are holidays in Mexico and the rest.

[00:38:12] But talk about, again, that one probably was just as difficult to write as the one on Pentecost. But, again, you select some films, so tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, absolutely. And, actually, this one was a pretty easy one for me. I spent a lot of my kind of formative adult years in the Episcopal Church, which is really big on All Saints Day and All Souls Day. And so I had, yeah, plenty of opportunity to kind of dig into kind of the legacy of what that meant.

[00:38:40] And I always found it really moving, the idea that when you are part of a church, you are kind of part of a legacy of people who have been, you know, acting in the name of Christ for generations. And, you know, way before I was here, way before my parents and my grandparents were here, and hopefully, you know, way after I'm gone, and I get to be one little kind of drop in that ocean. And so it's really kind of fun to dig into the legacy of other people who have done extraordinary things,

[00:39:08] but also to kind of remember that you don't necessarily need to do, like, amazing, world-changing, extraordinary things. Sometimes you can just be a supportive person for someone. And that can be really meaningful as well, and that can be really important to their own spiritual journey. So, yeah, there are plenty of opportunities to write about, like, actual canonized saints, like A Hidden Life, which is honestly kind of a good example of both because it's about a man, Franz Jagerstatter,

[00:39:35] who was executed by the Nazis for refusing to swear an oath of loyalty to Hitler. And so it's a very – his act of defiance was pretty small in the grand scheme of World War II, but it was a really good example of somebody who was very committed to their principles and very committed to living a Christlike life and had to sacrifice a lot, as that movie is really good at illustrating, of how beautiful and simple his life was.

[00:40:01] And it would have been really tempting to kind of give in in some regard to compromise somehow, and yet he never does. And so it's a really – in Tribune on Times, it's a really interesting story to kind of look back on and see kind of what is required of us as believers and how we can, even in our own small way, be forms of light to other people. And there – I mean, there are other – I talk about Coco in here as well, which connects to the Mexican holiday of Day of the Dead

[00:40:31] and is an opportunity to kind of reflect on significant people in our own lives and in our families and the ways that we're connected to them and the ways that it's kind of important to recognize the entirety of a person and the entirety of a family, not just the good parts that we want to try and remember, but we need to acknowledge the stuff that's a little bit harder to live with too because there's plenty of opportunity for grace and growth in that. And then Dick Johnson is Dead, the Kirsten Johnson documentary,

[00:41:00] is one that I'm particularly fond of because it's a love letter from the filmmaker to her father who is suffering from dementia, and she's trying to kind of make the most of the remaining time that they have together. And it's a really moving example of how much she loves her dad and what she hopes he will get to experience in the afterlife because her dad is a lifelong Seventh-day Adventist, and so she kind of mixes scenes of their time together with scenes of what she imagines heaven might look like, the things that she wants to get him to experience,

[00:41:30] and those scenes are so beautiful in the way that they clearly explore how much she knows and loves her dad and how much he means to her. Let me just say again, the book is entitled Films for All Seasons, Experiencing the Church Year at the Movies. If you would like to find it in your local bookstore, it's published by InterVarsity Press, but we also have a link to it on our website there, so you can get it in paperback or Kindle. And if you don't like the list that she creates at the beginning,

[00:41:57] she has other suggested films at the end, suggestions for further viewing. So again, Abby, thank you for writing the film, and thank you for giving us an hour today here on Point of View to talk about how we can use these films as part of our church calendar. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for giving me the platform. This was wonderful to get to talk to you. Again, if you're a casual viewer or maybe a movie buff, I think you're going to really enjoy this. For those of you that maybe have a small group

[00:42:27] and would like to stimulate some discussion by going to a movie or by showing a movie that already is available through DVD or some kind of streaming, you could do that as well. And I think you will find it to be a real conversation starter and very helpful for you in that regard. So one last time, about 27 chapters, 200-plus pages,

[00:42:51] and a great resource for those of you that maybe would like to dig deeper into the films and maybe see some of the spiritual principles in them. And you've been listening to Point of View. It almost seems like we live in a different world from many people in positions of authority. They say men can be women and women men.

[00:43:20] People are prosecuted differently or not at all depending on their politics. Criminals are more valued and rewarded than law-abiding citizens. It's so overwhelming, so demoralizing. You feel like giving up. But we can't. We shouldn't. We must not. As Winston Churchill said to Britain in the darkest days of World War II, never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never. Never yield to force.

[00:43:48] Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. And that's what we say to you today. This is not a time to give in, but to step up and join Point of View in providing clarity in the chaos. We can't do it alone, but together, with God's help, we will overcome the darkness. Invest in biblical clarity today at pointofview.net or call 1-800-347-5151.

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