Point of View February 11, 2025 – Hour 1 : Hope for the Heart Georgia

[00:00:04] Across America, Live, this is Point of View, Kirby Anderson. Recently we had a chance to go through Georgia once again and we have been there many times and certainly one of the reasons we like to do that is to connect up with some of our donors.

[00:00:30] And so that is something that Jana has provided very quickly to introduce us to people that have supported the ministry, listen to the program. But another benefit is that we find out about some ministries that you need to know about. When we were in Savannah we learned of this pregnancy center which was doing a lot of good work and did a broadcast on that.

[00:00:49] And recently when we were in Athens and Macon and Warner Roberts, especially when we're in Macon, heard about this hope for the heart of Georgia becoming one together based on John 17. And I just thought it would be good number one for you to know about this ministry. Number two to provide a national platform so that if you wanted to do something similar in your community, you might want to contact the two individuals we're going to be talking about and talking to this hour.

[00:01:17] And maybe make some contacts and go to the website which is hopefortheheartofgeorgia.com. Don't have to remember all that because we have that link on our website. Let me introduce our two guests that will be with us for the hour. Joshua Hale is with us and had a chance to meet him the other day. Individual that graduated from Georgetown College where he played football. Then graduated from law school, Mercer's University, Walter F. George School of Law.

[00:01:44] He is the founder and owner of the Lighthouse Hope Center and also the Lighthouse Law Firm which of course is his law firm. And we'll get into some of the details about that. But Josh, thank you so much for joining us today here on Point of View. Yes, sir. Thank you. Good to talk to you, Brother Kirby. Then also want to introduce Zach Williams and he is the founder and CEO of the Liaison Initiative.

[00:02:10] There is a whole lot that they do there but part of that is really developing leaders of intersectionality. He is a creator and host of a media platform called Conversations We Need to Have. Really has really provided a dialogue on some of the things we're going to talk about today. Politics, race relations, religion, civil rights, other social issues. And an individual that has actually tried to develop leadership and build bridges with politicians, religious leaders, educators.

[00:02:38] An individual that serves as one of the executive directors of Hope for the Heart of Georgia. Has a bachelor's degree in education, a bachelor's degree in informational sciences, master of organizational leadership, master of public education and much, much more. So Zach, thank you for joining us as well. Good to talk to you, Kirby. Looking forward to the conversation. I am too. But let me come to you, Josh, for just a minute. Joshua Hale was with us because as we're sitting around the table,

[00:03:06] certainly our listeners are going to learn about Hope for the Heart of Georgia. But I was impressed by the testimony. So I thought I'd get your testimony and Zach's because they're pretty powerful testimonies and maybe, in a sense, relate to why you're doing what you are doing today. Can you kind of give us an overview of your conversion into Christianity? Yes, absolutely.

[00:03:31] Always thankful for opportunities to share the testimony of the Lord's work in my life and how he's positioned me where I am now. So I was raised in church and made a profession of faith at an early age.

[00:03:53] But I strayed from a daily walk with the Lord and, long story short, got injured in playing football and had a shoulder surgery that turned me on to pain medication and really got addicted to those pain pills. And that led me into a spiral with drug addiction that ate up the later part of my teens

[00:04:23] and into my 20s, several years of struggling and praying and trying to quit. And I was like, well, I'm not sure if I was a kid. But when there's a strong man in the picture, there's not much that can be done until the strong man is bound, so to speak.

[00:04:44] And so the Lord really miraculously delivered me out of addiction. It was not anything that I just decided to do or was able to do in my own strength. I had an encounter with the Lord through a man who had been fasting and praying for me for 21 days.

[00:05:13] There was actually a whole group of people that were coming up on the end of a Daniel fast at the beginning of the year, which is I've learned since that I know a lot of people who kick off each new year with a 21-day fast. But this was January 21, 2008. And he basically asked me who Jesus is. And I said, well, he's the Lord. And he said, well, who is he at the church?

[00:05:42] And I said, well, he's the head of the church. And he said, and who is the church? And I said, well, the church is the body of Christ. And in my mind, I'm thinking I could have told him all this when I was seven. But he said, that's right. Jesus is Lord. And he's the head of the church. And the church is the body of Christ. And so what are the feet of Jesus look like? And he took his foot and put it up on his desk. And again, I'm saying, you know, I've heard this kind of thing my whole life.

[00:06:12] But Kirby, he did. He said it again. And he did it again with his foot. And he did it again and again and again. And at one point, he put his foot up there. And I don't have words in English to describe what happened. But the best I can understand what happened is that the power of God flowed through him to me.

[00:06:38] And the Lord graced me in that moment to repent. And so I went to detox for my drug addiction right after that. This is January 21, 2008. And I've not put a thing in my body, a mind-changing or mood-offering chemical in my body since January 21, 2008.

[00:07:07] But the work had only begun. That gave me an opportunity to engage in discipleship. And I spent 14 months in some intensive discipleship in a residential setting. I lived with a bunch of other guys who were coming out of the same thing I was.

[00:07:28] And so after that, I went to law school, which was a miracle in itself because I'd been in quite a bit of trouble during my addiction. But after law school, I began practicing law and doing transactional work. But we also opened our first sober living home. And so we've been doing the same work for about the past 11 years now. And that's Lighthouse Recovery Ministries. Yes.

[00:07:55] But through that, it positioned me where I was not pastoring a church, but I was doing the work of the ministry, and particularly in this deliverance and discipleship work. Very good. And just had a lot of relationships with different pastors, which really I did not know it.

[00:08:19] I never anticipated it, but that was positioning me and teeing me up to do the work we're doing now with Hope for the Heart of Georgia. We're going to take a break. And when we come back, I'm going to get the testimony from Zach, and then you'll see a little bit more. You can go to the website right now and get some of that information because I think it would be something you would like to replicate in your own community. So we've heard from Joshua. We're going to hear from Zach. All that coming up right after this.

[00:08:58] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson. Once President Trump was back in office, he ordered a pause on federal grants so that the incoming cabinet could evaluate what was being pushed through in the last few months of the Biden administration. As you might expect, the reaction from Democrats and the legacy press was over the top. Fortunately, the editors of the Wall Street Journal decided to address what they call the spending freeze panic, explaining that the pause on federal grants wasn't illegal and didn't even affect most spending.

[00:09:28] They remind us it's well within Mr. Trump's executive authority to pause disbursement of discretionary funds to ensure they comply with the law and his priorities. The editors did add that the White House didn't help itself with a lack of clarity on the details, and they pointed to a follow-up memo from the Trump administration that the pause would not affect financial assistance to individuals such as food stamps, small business grants, aid to farmers, or even entitlement programs like Medicaid and children's nutrition.

[00:09:57] There's a good reason for this pause. Yesterday I mentioned Trump's executive order on DEI programs. There were federal grants headed out the door that required diversity statements for government funding, even though the Supreme Court ruled against racial preferences in education. The editors of the Wall Street Journal also remind us of the EPA grant that went for climate justice to leftist groups who were calling for the abolition of Israel and immigration and customs enforcement. A spending pause is constitutional.

[00:10:26] The Impoundment Control Act, which might someday be declared unconstitutional by the current court, would only apply if the president refused to ever spend funds. The spending freeze panic was much ado about nothing. I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view. For a free copy of Kirby's booklet, A Biblical View on Loneliness, go to viewpoints.info slash loneliness. That's viewpoints.info slash loneliness.

[00:10:58] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Talking about the organization Hope for the Heart of Georgia becoming one together. We'll get into that in just a minute. Already have heard the incredible testimony of Joshua Hale, and if you wanted to know more, you might want to contact him or have him come speak. Incredible story. But I want to go now to Zach Williams, founder and CEO of the Liaison Initiative, an individual that has certainly been looking at this issue as well.

[00:11:27] And, Zach, I thought it would be appropriate since we've heard Josh's testimony. I'd love to hear yours. Yes, sir. So my story starts in church. My grandmother was a pastor. My parents are pastors. My brother's a pastor. I jokingly say I was actually born in church.

[00:11:51] But so for me, my addiction became religion in itself, similar to Joshua's story, but just replaced his drugs with religion for me. And so I struggled through trying to identify necessarily my purpose in a traditional church setting.

[00:12:17] And so along with that came some pride and some arrogance that caused me to weaponize the scriptures to promote my own agenda, if that makes sense. Yes. So in that, I had the opportunity to, you know, be an associate professor at a couple of universities and colleges around the country.

[00:12:44] And when Hope for the Heart of Georgia came along, it was the perfect avenue for me because the ministry set and the ministry skill that I possess and giftings that I have is not necessarily for a traditional church setting, although we assist, you know, we are a vehicle for churches.

[00:13:06] But the way that Hope for the Heart of Georgia is structured, as we'll talk about later, it allows me the opportunity to work with different people, different mindsets, different cultural experiences, and still remain true to who I am, if that makes sense. Yes. And again, what you're working is trying to promote a kingdom agenda.

[00:13:27] And it does seem to me that this would be a mechanism not to say that the church isn't working to try to heal racial tensions and to bring about racial reconciliation. But sometimes that is as easily or maybe even more easily fulfilled outside of the structure of the walls of the church. Wouldn't you agree? Yes, sir. I would definitely agree. I believe that's where it starts.

[00:13:58] And we bring them into the church based on the work that we've done outside of the church. So I believe that reconciliation starts when people who wouldn't necessarily be in the same space are intentionally maneuvering so that they are in the same space. And that could just be a dinner between a white conservative pastor and a black pastor who may have differing political views.

[00:14:26] And they're just having lunch and something sparks because there's the common interest or the common passion that Jesus is Lord. Good. Good. Good. Now, can you maybe, and then I'll come back to Joshua, get your thoughts about the state of racial reconciliation or the state of racial tensions perhaps even in Macon? Because I've heard some things when we were there, but I was only there for a day or two and you've been living there.

[00:14:54] And Joshua married a woman that actually was born there. So give me some perspective and give the nation some perspective on what's going on in Macon. So Macon is an amazing city. It's a beautiful city. And just like any other city in the country, there are seeds of racial and social injustice. Macon is about, the demographic of Macon is about 67% African American.

[00:15:21] And to honestly and transparently answer your question, there's a sense of community in Macon that I have not seen in other parts of the country. And of course there's racial tension. But there's also a sense of unity and a sense of community amongst just the people in general. So I don't have any stories that would be, I guess, horrific. Sure.

[00:15:48] No more than the systemic racism that is present in pretty much every city in America. But Macon is making strides to become a harmonious city. So, and I'm proud to be from Macon. I love the city. I love the people here. And it's an amazing opportunity for economic development that's happening in every side of town, black, poor, white.

[00:16:17] And I think in every aspect of the world, our city is making a collective stride towards unity, which is making the work for Hope for the Heart of Georgia even more needed to be a vehicle for that. Yes. I'm looking forward to getting back there again. And Josh, let me come to you for just a few minutes because we're talking to the CEO and the COO of an organization that we're really introducing for the first time to our listeners, Hope for the Heart of Georgia.

[00:16:46] Give us a little bit more of an overview because I think some people are saying, okay, why did you start? What are you going to do? What are some of the functions? Give us an overview if you could. Yes, sir. So, Dr. Michael Youssef out of Church of the Apostles in Atlanta has an outreach ministry called Leading the Way. Yes.

[00:17:08] And that ministry was about to launch a global evangelistic campaign that was going to target five geographic areas in 2023. And among those five, it was the Northeast, you know, the New England area in Boston, Dublin, Ireland, Cairo, Egypt, Australia, and Macon.

[00:17:36] And so it was exciting for Macon to be included on that list. And we just had a sense that the eye of the Lord, so to speak, was on Macon. And, but leading the way, the way that they function is they come into a city and basically ask if you want them there. They ask you to confirm the call that they sent.

[00:18:06] And so some pastors were gathered together of diverse backgrounds and all agreed that this was indeed a calling of the Lord and agreed for them to come to Macon and do their work. And so with my legal background, I was brought into that team to help build a prayer team, which was one of the first things that had to be done was to initiate prayer.

[00:18:35] But we also formed a nonprofit corporation for liability insulation and separate records and all that. We formed it for the local body. And we did not anticipate it becoming what it has become.

[00:18:52] It was formed to accomplish one task, which was a process leading up to a broad evangelism campaign with leading the way where we were mobilizing local churches to go out and invite people who were either unchurched or who did not know the Lord at all to, quote, come and see. You know, just come and check it out. Come to these services we're going to have and check it out.

[00:19:20] And throughout that process, there were over 500 churches in the heart of Georgia that were supportive of that work. And there were just over 100 who actively participated. And there had not been a unified movement or event like that within the body of Christ in the middle Georgia area ever that I know of or that anyone else I know knows of.

[00:19:51] And so what happened was at the event, if you walked into the event, you could not tell was it predominantly black? Was it predominantly white? You know, was it predominantly any bend of doctrine? We prayed, we worshiped, and the gospel was presented.

[00:20:13] But I had had the perception that it was 95% about evangelism and 5% about the unity of the church and bringing churches together to do this work.

[00:20:26] And I had really been gripped, if you will, with John 17 and Jesus' prayer in John 17 and really just inquiring of the Lord and asking him to open that passage up to me by his spirit, you know, through revelation of knowing him better. I wanted to know the Lord's heart in John 17.

[00:20:52] And there were a lot of other people in the body of Christ and making different church leaders who were having the same experience. Let me jump in here real quickly because I want to come in real quickly because we have a break. And I want you maybe to come back and talk a little bit about John 17 because that's kind of the key verses there. And some of you might grab your Bible, John 17, verses 20 to 23.

[00:21:13] And I want to continue our conversation with Josh and Zach and also encourage you maybe during the break to go to HopeForTheHeartOfGeorgia.com. I think you'll find some very interesting material that you could use in your own community. We'll be right back. The Bible tells us not to worry. And yet there is a lot of worrying stuff in our world today. Thankfully, the Bible doesn't stop at telling us not to worry.

[00:21:43] God gives us a next step. He says we need to pray. But sometimes even knowing what to pray can be difficult. And that is why Point of View has relaunched our Pray for America movement, a series of weekly emails to guide you in prayer for our nation. Each week you'll receive a brief update about a current issue affecting Americans, along with a written prayer that you can easily share with others.

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[00:22:40] Let's pray together for God to make a difference in America. Point of View will continue after this. You are listening to Point of View. The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station.

[00:23:09] And now, here again, is Kirby Anderson. Back once again as we talk about hope for the heart of Georgia. Joshua Hale with us and Zach Williams. And, Joshua, we were talking just a little bit about John 17. That is oftentimes referred to as the priestly prayer of Jesus in which he asked that God would make us one and that we would certainly be one in the world and that we might become one.

[00:23:35] And that I certainly this idea of oneness was something that really struck you at the time and I think was really the genesis of Hope for the Heart of Georgia. And one of the reasons why that verse is on the very first page of your website. Yes, sir. It definitely was.

[00:23:54] The language I like to use, Kirby, to try to describe what happened is just that the Lord gripped us with John 17. Zach had a lot of history with unification type work and just trying to understand people.

[00:24:18] But the Lord's heart in John 17, which, again, we did not rush to conclusions about what it meant for us to be one. We were inquiring of the Lord, you know, what does this look like? What was your heart? What's your desire? This was the last recorded prayer that Jesus prayed before going to the garden and the cross.

[00:24:47] And it was really what he left the disciples with at the Last Supper. That was the context of this prayer being prayed. But as we begin to inquire of the Lord, and we're continuing to inquire, we're learning, you know, constantly just the depths of the Lord's heart with what his desire is to make us one

[00:25:12] and to keep us in his name for us to have the knowledge of who he is, not just in our theology and in our doctrine, but in our experience with him. But as we were praying into that, we felt led to pray together.

[00:25:39] Any believer who has confessed Jesus as their Lord, we began to create opportunities to pray together. We formed what's now known as the Prayer Collective, which is just open prayer. We pray every morning at 7 a.m. and every evening at 7 p.m. for an hour. And anyone can come on that prayer line and pray.

[00:26:08] And so we knew that praying together appeared to be a piece of it and also praising together, you know, doing worship together. And so we began to organize and facilitate what we would call a gathering, a regional gathering, multi-church gatherings where there are different expressions of worship, you know,

[00:26:32] whether it's not just the genres of music, whether it's hymns or gospel or CCM music, but also, you know, those who sit quietly in reverence and awe of the Lord, those who raise their hands, those who dance, but creating opportunities for all these expressions to happen in one service

[00:26:54] and creating opportunities for people together with people who they are not sitting in church with on Sunday mornings. Very good. So praying together and worshiping together. Praying and worshiping. Zach, I want to come to you because another aspect of that is conversation, and that's one thing that you obviously are gifted as. As some of the material we've posted here talk about you having a great and strong reputation for being an architect of complex conversations.

[00:27:24] And anybody that would want to go to conversations we need to have will see that you're covering a lot of different issues. And there are issues that we certainly, when it gets to the issue of race and civil rights and social issues, these are conversations we need to have. So talk about how you facilitate some of those kinds of conversations that desperately need to take place. Well, Kirby, thank you for that national shout-out for my conversations we need to have platform.

[00:27:55] But, yes, so conversations are, to me, it's the foundation of finding solutions to complex issues. And so one of the things that we do at Hope for the Heart of Georgia, here in the city of Macon, we've met with about 350 pastors in a conversational setting where we have pastors come in and we have a conversation.

[00:28:22] And one of the questions that lead that conversation is, what do you perceive as the spiritual climate of your city or community being Macon? And so how pastors respond to that question has been vastly different, but it gives us sort of some – a head start on trying to see what they perceive as the spiritual problems

[00:28:48] so that we can see what spiritual solutions needs to be put in place for that. And I think also conversations allow us, as Ray Hughes said, unity is not bringing everybody down to the least common denominator and calling it unity. To me, that's uniformity. But unity is saying, I appreciate what you bring to the body.

[00:29:14] I appreciate what you contribute to the betterment of the kingdom. Bring all of you. I'm going to bring all of me, and we're just going to see how God will use the parts of the body that don't necessarily deal with each other. And so complex conversations are very important in the sense that it allows opportunities for people who wouldn't necessarily be in the same space or talk about complex things.

[00:29:44] It allows them to sort of be in the element of comfort and a safe space to sometimes agree to disagree. And I think a lot of times with the body of Christ, the reason why there's so much contention amongst, you know, black Christians, white Christians, democratic Christians, Republican Christians, is because we have not mastered the art of conversation.

[00:30:09] And understanding why individuals feel the way they feel about a particular topic, you know, using the Bible as the standard, but also being open to the interpretation of others based on their experience. It does seem to me, too, that maybe for some pastors this would be really eye-opening to say, I didn't know you believed that, or I've always had a presupposition that you have that particular view,

[00:30:38] and getting people in the same room and talking about some of those issues, first of all, might would open their eyes to issues that they had not seen, but also maybe find some similarities and common concerns that they maybe weren't necessarily aware that people in other churches might have had. Yes, sir. And that is so true. That's what we see almost every time that we have one of the lunches where the pastors come together.

[00:31:06] There's a commonality amongst them that they didn't even know existed. And a lot of times, as one pastor, shout-out to Pastor John Wood at Christ Chapel, one of the things that he said to us in one of those meetings, he said, it's not that we don't want unity. It's just that we don't know each other. That's right. Part of getting to know each other is just coming around. And I want to shout-out all of the pastors who have participated in those lunches,

[00:31:35] because you can sense that the body is coming together. Everyone is not going to agree on certain theological ideologies, but everyone agrees that Jesus Christ is the center of whatever conversation we're having, and everything points to him. So if we can all have that mindset, I think we would see a lot more efficiency when it comes to not only evangelism but edification in the church.

[00:32:06] We need to take a break. And when we come back, I would love to get both of you just talking about if you could pass these ideas on to other people around the country, what could they possibly do? Because as you go to the website, you'll learn about how they're working to collaborate and promote a kingdom agenda. And we've talked about this so many times, especially with our good friend Tony Evans, when he oftentimes will come in and talk about a kingdom agenda.

[00:32:31] But also how to then work with the local churches, the pastors, to maybe provide an opportunity for evangelism, for discipleship, of some sort of outreach, which, as Josh was pointing out, came from some of the attempts to really first develop an evangelistic outreach. And then, as we've already talked about, maybe organize some times where we could have worship, where sometimes it's unified, sometimes it's diverse,

[00:33:00] sometimes it's what is in your comfort zone, maybe sometimes outside of your comfort zone. And then to see how to maybe have an impact in the community, and as a result, be the salt of the earth and the light of the world. So there is a lot that you can learn by simply spending some time going to that website, Hope for the Heart of Georgia. If you find yourself wanting to contact these two individuals, of course, we also have their links as well, both to Facebook and to Twitter, now called X,

[00:33:30] in case you'd like to communicate with them, in case you might like to have them come and speak at your community, and see if you can start something like that in your community. So we'll continue our conversation with Josh and Zach right after this.

[00:33:55] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth. Back for a few more minutes, let me just mention again, we have a link to Hope for the Heart of Georgia. You can use that to link to both Josh and Zach. Also, of course, have their links to both Facebook and X, and you can use those as well. You might want to have them come and speak, or maybe if you're on another radio station, would like to maybe cover this again on your local program, you can do so, because we think it would be a great model

[00:34:25] for what could happen in your own community. So, Josh, let me come to you for just a minute. People listening right now are saying, okay, you got me. There's probably less likelihood that a white pastor or a black pastor is going to say, you know what, in the midst of my busy life, I need to schedule a time to go across town and meet somebody I don't even know, or individuals in one church, maybe even trying to gather together with people in another church to do worship. You've provided a mechanism for that.

[00:34:53] So if somebody says, well, I'd like to develop this, you sort of had it developed by accident, but what would you say to somebody that says, you might provide a model that we could do in our community? What would you tell them? I would say to begin in prayer and fasting and inviting the Lord in to give me favor

[00:35:19] with who he may already be preparing for this type of connectivity, for these types of relationships that may not be in the kind of normal or standard way of connecting with people. We typically connect with people in our own circles, you know, the places we work, the places we shop, the places we go to worship.

[00:35:47] And so everything we do, we call our prayer team the tip of the spear, and Zach and I are devoted to prayer as well. And like Zach alluded to some, as we began hosting these lunches and inviting pastors, we were making personal contact with pastors, ministers of music, worship leaders. And what we found is that the Lord was doing that very thing.

[00:36:14] There was a desire in so many people's hearts for this type of connection. And when we began to have pastors thank us, I can't tell you how many pastors we've had say, look, I am so busy. You know, my plate is full caring for my flock, for my congregation, running my church. You know, this type of work you're doing is necessary, but there's no way that we as pastors

[00:36:42] could have spearheaded what you all are doing. And that has been a great encouragement for us. But it's simply personal contact and creating opportunities for conversation, Kirby. I think the model is really that simple. One of the other things I might encourage is people to learn a little bit more about having good conversations. And Zach, let me come to you. For example, I've gone to your LinkedIn page,

[00:37:10] which gives a kind of an overview of some of the material that you have. Of course, people can also go and find some of the material of the liaison initiative. And again, conversations we need to have. But it seems to me providing a forum for conversation makes some sense as well. Yes, sir. I definitely think having the conversation is, you know, like Joshua alluded to, everything that we've done has happened organically.

[00:37:39] But I think fostering conversation amongst people of different experiences will help sort of put momentum behind the unity work that's needed. And also, I think humility and understanding that none of us get it all right. And so bringing the sum of parts together to make the body whole, I think, requires humility on everybody's part, you know,

[00:38:09] and just creating opportunities to serve together. And we didn't talk about this a lot, but one of the things that have helped us see a unified commitment from the local churches here in Macon is creating opportunities for us to serve together, do evangelism together. That's where I was going to go next. A very fundamental desire. Yeah. So, and one of the ways that we did that

[00:38:37] was through one of our collectives called the Commission Collectives. And the mission of that is Operation See, Help, Love, which is just the basic fundamental principles of evangelism. See people, help people, love people. And so we created an avenue to serve our community through a Baptist school drive. We're in about 30 churches

[00:39:03] and about 17 community organizations came together, had about 300 volunteers to come together and serve about 3,000 people in our community. And the beautiful thing about that was out of that 3,000, our prayer collective evangelism tent had the opportunity to pray with about 800 people. And out of that 800 people, about 250 people made first-time decisions for Christ. So good.

[00:39:31] So just seeing things like that that really can't be planned, it just has to be someone that has a calling and a gift to do that and take the move. But Joshua and I are definitely open to consulting and helping people who have a burden and a passion for unifying their community and their church. So we thank you for the opportunity

[00:40:00] to even be on your platform to talk about it. Well, again, you anticipated where I was going to go, and that is just the impact you can have in a community. And it can be a food drive. It can be refurbishing a house. It can be all sorts of things because not only does it, as you point out, provide opportunities for evangelism, it also really shows the community. I mean, if indeed people are going to know that we are believers, that we are Christians by our love, and if indeed we show a unity,

[00:40:29] that's going to be attractive to the non-Christian world as well. So I certainly want to salute both of you. I was very impressed with hearing about Hope for the Heart of Georgia. If some of you listening here say, okay, I'd like to know a little bit more, we've given you some great ways to contact them. First of all, the website is hopefortheheartofgeorgia.com. Then if you go to either the picture of Josh or Zach, you will see that we've provided you with some links

[00:40:58] to their Facebook page and to X. And of course, you can use that. Of course, I went to Zach's LinkedIn just a minute ago because I wanted to find some other things about his particular conversations. And of course, you can type in his name. There's another Zach Williams out there, so make sure you get the right one. And those are all resources that we would point you to in order to make a difference. And I understand that probably both of you would be willing to have a phone call or a conversation

[00:41:25] or maybe even come and speak at another community and talk about what you've done. So first of all, Josh and Zach, it has been a delight to have you on the program. It's great to meet some of you and look forward to the next opportunity. Thank you. We are going to take a break. And when we come back, we'll get into a couple of things. First of all, a very good piece by Edison Hosner reminding us the concerns that we've expressed here before about pardons and some of the dangers

[00:41:55] and really his desire as an individual that has been working with young voices to say maybe we could deal with this issue of pardons because as we've said before, they have been misused going all the way back to Gerald Ford and then Bill Clinton and then, of course, Joe Biden and now Donald Trump. And so you will certainly, I think, agree with some of the things he has to say. Then, of course, we've been looking at this whole issue of USAID,

[00:42:25] posted a couple of articles there that I think are relevant. And there are some other topics that I would like to get into today. Probably we'll have to postpone some of those till tomorrow. But that's okay because we'll have lots of time this week to cover all the things that are happening in the news. If you'd like to know more about some of the conversations we've had or will be having, all you need to do is go to the website, pointofview.net. If you know somebody that would benefit from this conversation, you might click on that button that says,

[00:42:54] listen, send that podcast to them so that they'd be aware of some of the things you've just heard. We have a lot to cover in the news. We'll talk about that right after this. Where does moral truth come from? According to 58% of Americans, individuals determine moral truth. A quarter of Generation Z says society determines moral truth

[00:43:23] and morality can even change over time. Only 42% of Americans believe that truth comes from God. I don't know about you, but I find these numbers extremely troubling. It really is a crisis of truth, and that crisis has consequences. Look at society. Evil is called good. Good called evil. People with biblical beliefs are called bigots, or worse, they're canceled. But there is hope. The Bible promises the truth will set us free,

[00:43:52] and that's why Point of View is relentless in our commitment to the ultimate source of moral truth, God's Word. At Point of View, we know that God's truth is eternal, and if we stand together, we can help more Americans apply His truth in their daily life. Help Americans find truth again by giving at pointofview.net, or call 1-800-347-5151. That's pointofview.net,

[00:44:21] and 800-347-5151. Point of View will continue after this. Thank you.