Point of View December 6, 2024 – Hour 1 : Weekend Edition

[00:00:04] Across America, Live, this is Point of View, Kirby Anderson.

[00:00:20] Thank you for joining me, it is the Friday Weekend Edition, we're so grateful that you can join us and over the next two hours we will be covering a lot of issues.

[00:00:28] Certainly one of the things I always love to do is remind people about what it used to be like, Pentadexter back in the old days when we would come to December.

[00:00:36] Oftentimes Congress would be excused, Supreme Court maybe wasn't really dealing with issues, we sometimes talked about doing a Point of View home and garden show.

[00:00:45] I was just making the long list, mental list of all things we're not going to talk about today.

[00:00:49] We won't talk about the war in Ukraine, we won't talk about the conflict in the Middle East.

[00:00:53] There's all sorts of conflict taking place in South Korea, which we'll get to next week and also in France.

[00:00:59] We won't probably talk much about some of the nominees that Donald Trump has put forward, although maybe one gets mentioned.

[00:01:05] Those are all off the table and you are still going to be in the next two hours talking about everything from religious liberty to DEI to a variety of other topics.

[00:01:15] And it's just a reminder that the old days when December was a time when we could reflect on maybe doing a program on who were the three wise men or when actually was Jesus born.

[00:01:25] We're in the midst of a lot of busy activity right now, aren't we?

[00:01:28] Yes, and part of it has to do with the fact that the president-elect did not let any grass grow under his feet after he was elected.

[00:01:38] And he got started forming his new administration.

[00:01:41] I know we're not going to talk about nominee after nominee after nominee for the cabinet, but it's impressive.

[00:01:48] It's actually impressive to see the ground that has been laid to get ready to sort of hit the ground running in January.

[00:01:57] I might just mention, too, we do have a piece by Guy Benson, which you can see that gives you a rating on how the American people feel about some of these nominees.

[00:02:06] And I'll just give you a spoiler alert to the American people are much more positive than some of the people around Capitol Hill.

[00:02:12] But we bring back to the microphone Keisha Russell, who is senior counsel for First Liberty.

[00:02:19] And we're going to be talking about a lot of legal issues.

[00:02:22] So I couldn't even imagine doing this without you, Keisha.

[00:02:26] And, of course, you have spent some time working with Judge Ho.

[00:02:29] Can you explain a little bit about what you've been doing?

[00:02:31] Yeah. So last year I had the opportunity to clerk for Judge Ho on the Fifth Circuit, who is also on the shortlist for Supreme Court justice.

[00:02:44] And so learned a lot from him and definitely polished my legal skills, writing, drafting, all of that, because he's just such a brilliant writer, thinker and amazing person.

[00:02:57] Well, speaking of writing, you were writing before that. And now the fruit of all that writing is available.

[00:03:05] And I guess I can just basically hold this up.

[00:03:08] There it is. Yes.

[00:03:09] Uncommon Courage.

[00:03:10] This is Keisha's new book. It comes out January 21st.

[00:03:14] But we have a copy of it. It's called.

[00:03:17] This was my copy. Thank you, Keisha, for bringing it in.

[00:03:20] Uncommon Courage, Defending Truth and Freedom While There Is Still Time.

[00:03:25] And of course, she draws on her experiences at First Liberty Institute and in the field of religious liberty law.

[00:03:33] So thank you, Keisha, for my copy of the book.

[00:03:35] And we'll certainly go more deeply into this as the date for launching draws near.

[00:03:42] And you've got a number of people that have endorsed the book.

[00:03:44] And of course, I've had a chance to get a glimpse at it as well.

[00:03:47] So I think you will appreciate that.

[00:03:49] But let's get into it, because our first article is New York School Denies Student Request to Form an Official Bible Club.

[00:03:56] Now, it seems to me that if you say, well, we should have and they do have a gay straight alliance,

[00:04:02] you should also then be allowed to have a Bible club.

[00:04:05] If you have a ski club or a chess club or debate club, you should have a Bible club.

[00:04:09] But apparently, Keisha, New York, at least this school, didn't get the memo, did they?

[00:04:15] No, they didn't.

[00:04:17] And so, you know, we on behalf of the client named Elijah Nelson, who was an amazing 13 year old middle schooler in New York,

[00:04:28] we sent a letter and I just want to say that we were able to send that in conjunction with our co-counsel at Jones Day Law Firm,

[00:04:36] which is an amazing international law firm with just some really bright lawyers.

[00:04:43] And Kevin Marshall was on our team, another guy named Michael Bradley, who's an associate on the case.

[00:04:49] And we sent a fantastic letter to the school telling them that if you have these extracurricular clubs, you've got to have religious clubs.

[00:04:58] You're not allowed to discriminate based on the Equal Access Act and the very stringent requirements under the free exercise clause.

[00:05:06] And it just so happens that, you know, the school district was pretty sure about their position, I guess, until they start getting phone calls from Fox News and the Daily Caller and, you know, national people who were interested in listening and hearing about why the school would do this.

[00:05:22] And the school has reversed its position and said, oh, yes, of course, you guys are right.

[00:05:27] You know, and we're going to try and have this student have this club.

[00:05:31] But if I may just say that a lot of times in these cases, what I find is that some of the administration administrators actually do know the law and they do know that they're supposed to be a Bible club and they do know that they're supposed to be a Christian club.

[00:05:45] And they deny it because they think, well, what is that student going to do about it?

[00:05:49] And so that's why when you illuminate that darkness, meaning sending a letter and doing a press release, that allows you to broadcast that.

[00:05:58] And then the school has to do the right thing.

[00:06:00] They're forced to because they're under a microscope.

[00:06:03] When I see something like this and you mentioned the Equal Access Amendment Act, you know, I did think this type of thing was settled back in the 80s.

[00:06:15] Why do they keep denying these clubs?

[00:06:19] You know, I can't really say for sure, but my guess is that.

[00:06:26] The country is spent, I think, like the last couple of decades really reinforcing the fallacy that the separation of church and state means we have to get rid of religion.

[00:06:38] We have to completely ostracize religion from society, essentially.

[00:06:43] And I think a lot of government officials and especially schools have adopted that view.

[00:06:51] And I also think there's some hostility there just towards religion, toward Christianity specifically.

[00:06:57] And a lot of times you may have ignorance, but I also think that sometimes these people do know and they think, no, we don't need to have one of those clubs.

[00:07:06] And so we're just going to say no.

[00:07:08] And for every Elijah, right, that sticks up for them, for himself, how many other students do you think will just retreat after the school says no?

[00:07:19] Most of them.

[00:07:20] And so that's why we do what we do, because we want some of those other students who may not be able to have access to someone to ask to know that they have the right to do this.

[00:07:30] Yeah.

[00:07:30] And so, I mean, First Liberty has written this letter.

[00:07:35] I mean, sometimes that's all it takes.

[00:07:37] Yeah.

[00:07:38] Sometimes that is all it takes.

[00:07:39] And some of these kinds of cases like these, I wouldn't call them smaller, even less significant than, say, our Coach Kennedy case.

[00:07:47] It's just as important, right?

[00:07:48] Because we are fully willing to sue on behalf of the student in order for him to have this club.

[00:07:54] But the point is even bigger than just this club and the student.

[00:07:58] And it's just the fact that we have to continue to enforce the protections of the Constitution when it comes to religion.

[00:08:04] Otherwise, we won't have them anymore.

[00:08:06] Right.

[00:08:06] So we have to keep doing that.

[00:08:08] And that's why we do what we do at First Liberty.

[00:08:10] As you said, Pena, 40 years ago, the Equal Access Act was passed.

[00:08:15] And here we're still dealing with it in 2024 as we get into 2025.

[00:08:20] Let's take a break, though.

[00:08:22] We have another case.

[00:08:23] This one's a little more disappointing, which we'll talk about in terms of what is happening in the state of Ohio.

[00:08:28] But if you'd like to know more about this particular case, or maybe you know a young person who wanted to have a Bible club and was told no, this piece could be very helpful.

[00:08:38] The letter that they sent could be very helpful.

[00:08:40] So it's the first article we've posted right here on the website at pointofview.net.

[00:08:45] We'll take it.

[00:08:58] This is Viewpoints with Kirby Anderson.

[00:09:02] The Western world is facing a birth rate crisis.

[00:09:05] Wilford Riley says that these young adults resemble captive panda bears who must be persuaded to mate.

[00:09:11] He cites a psychological study that revealed that roughly 50% of young men have never or almost never approached a woman to ask for a date.

[00:09:18] Even if men and women get married, they are less likely to have children.

[00:09:22] The fertility rate has been dropping for decades.

[00:09:25] That is why Edward Ring wrote a discouraging essay, Give Me Fertility or Give Me Death.

[00:09:30] Turns out that unmarried, childless women are much more likely to vote for a Democratic candidate who supports abortion as reproductive health care.

[00:09:38] And a recent study by Morgan Stanley estimated that by 2030, around 45% of women between ages 25 and 44 are projected to be single and childless.

[00:09:48] And it's more important to recognize that these trends are not only taking place in the developed world, but much more even in the developing world.

[00:09:55] The U.S. has a fertility rate of 1.84, which is better than the 1.24 fertility rate of European countries like Italy or the 1.17 fertility rate of Singapore.

[00:10:06] Some liberal women have embraced the 4B movement that originated in South Korea that says no to sex, dating, marriage and children.

[00:10:14] This is not a good trend.

[00:10:16] The projected fertility rate of South Korean women this year has dropped to 0.68.

[00:10:21] The population of South Korea is imploding.

[00:10:24] So it's time for pastors and other church leaders to remind Christians that children are a gift from God, Psalm 127, and they are arrows in our quiver.

[00:10:33] You know, the secular world may not value marriage and family, which is why the church must teach biblical principles to the next generation.

[00:10:40] I'm Kirby Anderson, and that's my point of view.

[00:10:46] For a free booklet on a biblical view of anti-Semitism, go to viewpoints.info slash antisemitism.

[00:10:53] Viewpoints.info slash antisemitism.

[00:10:58] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:11:04] Back once again, if you'd like to join the conversation at any point, 1-800-351-1212.

[00:11:09] In studio with us today, Penna Dexter.

[00:11:11] Keisha Russell is the senior counsel for First Liberty.

[00:11:13] And, Penna, I thought it would be good to talk about a case that many people have been following for, it seems like, at least a year or two in Ohio at a time when it is so cold in the Midwest.

[00:11:25] I think you can give us an update on some of the things that are happening there.

[00:11:28] Well, we've talked about Dad's Place.

[00:11:31] And basically, it's a church that has a homeless ministry.

[00:11:35] They take in homeless.

[00:11:36] They're open to people that need the shelter and need to come in.

[00:11:41] And, of course, you know, then there's ministry going on to these people.

[00:11:44] And they have had so much trouble with the city authorities over and over again.

[00:11:50] It's been a battle that First Liberty has been involved in with them.

[00:11:54] And, you know, one would think that there would be a successful outcome at some point.

[00:11:59] And sometimes there are little steps in the right direction.

[00:12:02] But there was such a disappointing phone call that Jeremy Dyes at First Liberty got yesterday.

[00:12:10] I saw a little short video that he made about it.

[00:12:13] And he basically said it's freezing cold out here.

[00:12:17] And the people who would have been inside warm, who have nowhere to go, are going to have to be out on the street because of a decision the city has made.

[00:12:26] Yeah, it's really disheartening.

[00:12:28] It's disheartening.

[00:12:29] And I don't understand the justification for doing this to a ministry who is only trying to help the city care for the homeless and people who don't have anywhere to go when it's clearly freezing outside.

[00:12:45] Sadly, this is not the first time we've seen cases like this where you have ministries.

[00:12:49] We had one in Dallas that had a very similar situation.

[00:12:54] And it was Our Calling, I think was the name of that ministry, and a very similar situation where they wanted to house the homeless and help people.

[00:13:02] I've been in their facility.

[00:13:03] I know the people who started it.

[00:13:05] Yes, they started it at Northwest Bible Church.

[00:13:07] As a matter of fact, are tied into Dallas Seminary.

[00:13:09] Go ahead, Bill.

[00:13:09] Yeah, so that was a couple years ago.

[00:13:11] And it's the same nonsense.

[00:13:14] You know, in that situation, the city essentially created an ordinance to keep this ministry from doing what they need to do.

[00:13:23] Right.

[00:13:23] And so, you know, I have a lot of compassion for what these ministries are doing.

[00:13:28] And that's why First Liberty continues to fight these cases, because these are the kinds of things that happen that no one finds out about.

[00:13:39] And these are the kinds of things people need to know about, because these are the things we need to be shouting from the rooftop.

[00:13:44] So it's Pastor Chris Avell, is it?

[00:13:47] Yeah.

[00:13:48] And this, he's so, well, he's strong and he fights back.

[00:13:54] He's willing to continue this fight, but he's also very, very, I mean, he just has a pastor's heart and very compassionate.

[00:14:01] And, you know, when these people are in need, what's the next step, Keisha, for this ministry?

[00:14:07] I mean, do you give up?

[00:14:09] Oh, no, of course not.

[00:14:11] I think, you know, well, I'm not directly on that litigation team, but I can tell you that we're going to keep fighting until we win.

[00:14:18] That's what we always do.

[00:14:19] So if that means we have to appeal, whatever it is, that's what we're doing.

[00:14:23] And we're going to, you know, stick with that place until we can get that ministry for you to do what God has asked them to do.

[00:14:29] Let me broaden it for just a minute.

[00:14:31] If you go to firstliberty.org, and you can click on the picture of Keisha and find it, or just go to First Liberty,

[00:14:37] you'll see one of the things that pops up says criminalizing compassion, America's pastors and churches.

[00:14:43] And I wanted to broaden it for just a minute, because we were talking about Pastor Chris, who is in Ohio,

[00:14:47] and he's been criminally charged.

[00:14:49] Think about this for a minute.

[00:14:50] I mean, this is not a constitutional issue.

[00:14:53] This is a criminal issue.

[00:14:54] Right.

[00:14:55] Criminally charged for providing a safe place for the town's most vulnerable people right now,

[00:15:01] when the temperature one day was 20 degrees there in Ohio.

[00:15:05] And our listeners up in Ohio can say, yeah, I agree with that.

[00:15:08] And then you also have Pastor Jose.

[00:15:10] We've talked about him before.

[00:15:12] Matter of fact, he has been pressured to end his food ministry, where he's been feeding the hungry.

[00:15:17] Then you have Pastor Howard, who's been prevented from hosting these religious gatherings on his own property.

[00:15:23] I believe that one's up in New York again, I think.

[00:15:25] And then Pastor Mike, who's been canceled for providing temporary and emergency shelter for some of the homeless.

[00:15:31] By the way, are we seeing a trend here?

[00:15:33] And it is just an illustration that every time the church tries to be the church,

[00:15:37] Pena, what happens is they get drug into court or they get cited.

[00:15:42] They get fined.

[00:15:43] And it's one of the reasons why I think people should support First Liberty.

[00:15:47] Well, I think so.

[00:15:48] I mean, it's truly a compassion ministry.

[00:15:52] I just wonder some of the motivation.

[00:15:55] Is it that these city officials want a different church there,

[00:16:00] one that has like this beautiful property and all kinds of kids on a playground outside looking like all happy

[00:16:08] and ignoring the fact that in our society, in our culture, everybody is not doing well.

[00:16:14] And that's why God has motivated many people to serve him in this way.

[00:16:21] But, you know, it's like the society wants to define and narrow the parameters of what a church is.

[00:16:28] That's what I feel like this is about.

[00:16:30] Do they want to wipe out the church?

[00:16:32] Well, they would never say that.

[00:16:33] But I think on this particular case with Dad's place,

[00:16:37] I do think the authorities would probably rather see the church not there at all.

[00:16:41] That's what it seems like to me.

[00:16:43] And in the past, I think it kind of gels with what we've experienced at First Liberty

[00:16:49] with sort of these local zoning boards, city councils and things like that,

[00:16:53] and realizing that, well, obviously we know we fight against,

[00:16:57] we're not fighting against flesh and blood, right?

[00:16:59] This is a spiritual thing.

[00:17:00] And for whatever reason, this animosity has built up within these people

[00:17:05] that they want to take the church out of government life, civic life.

[00:17:10] And I also think not only does it mean that they don't want the church there at all,

[00:17:16] I think they're trying to water down the church's influence in that area.

[00:17:22] Because obviously, if you know a church is helping people, feeding people, housing people,

[00:17:28] you have a very different view of that church rather than when you hear,

[00:17:32] oh, these Christians believe this or that.

[00:17:34] When you see the Christians walking out Christ's mission,

[00:17:37] it's very difficult to not understand that what they're doing is a good thing at the very least.

[00:17:44] And maybe to be drawn to the church or being drawn to Christ.

[00:17:47] Exactly.

[00:17:48] And including the people that they're helping.

[00:17:50] So I think there are a number of reasons.

[00:17:52] But I think primarily it's just, it's a spiritual thing going on with some of these people.

[00:17:58] And it's just the hostility to just really water down the influence of the church.

[00:18:02] Well, it's another reason why we need to have uncommon courage.

[00:18:04] That's the title of the book coming out, right?

[00:18:06] It is.

[00:18:06] It would be good to do that.

[00:18:08] Maybe broaden it even harder.

[00:18:09] I was talking about these different pastors, change it to immigration.

[00:18:12] We're not going to talk about immigration today.

[00:18:14] But you noticed how there were people that said, we want to be a sanctuary city.

[00:18:19] We want to be a sanctuary state until they showed up on their doorstep.

[00:18:22] The same thing.

[00:18:23] We think it's great that you have a homeless ministry.

[00:18:26] Just don't have it downtown because we don't want those kind of people there.

[00:18:30] And again, I think the church has the possibility of getting people not only off the street, but off the welfare rolls.

[00:18:38] And so in some respects, I recognize that if you just have a homeless ministry,

[00:18:41] which only does feed the people, give them soup, you're going to get more of that.

[00:18:46] And I can see why some church fathers and city fathers and others go,

[00:18:50] I don't know if I want to even do that ministry.

[00:18:52] But if your ultimate goal, as I think Chris has got, is to not only help people,

[00:18:57] not only giving them a hand up, but a hand.

[00:18:59] So he's not giving them a hand out.

[00:19:01] He's giving them a hand up, really making a difference.

[00:19:04] Then I would think that people in the city would say, great, we get people off of the streets,

[00:19:10] onto the job rolls.

[00:19:12] Those are people that are going to be paying taxes and make the city better.

[00:19:16] But they don't see that in terms of the long-term impact that a church can have.

[00:19:20] I think there's one more part of this, and that is a lot of cities are actually controlled by the left.

[00:19:25] And the left likes to have people dependent upon them because they think that it keeps them in power.

[00:19:32] So, you know, as many of our national problems sort of come down to power, a power struggle,

[00:19:39] I think that's very true in cities.

[00:19:41] And, you know, you look across the nation and you look at who votes to the right

[00:19:47] and who votes to the left, the areas are usually metropolitan where you see the blue areas of the country.

[00:19:56] And it's much smaller geographically than the red areas,

[00:20:01] but it's filled with people and much more densely populated.

[00:20:05] And so, you know, I wonder now as we have a whole new kind of mindset in the country,

[00:20:12] at least in our government, and possibly it would be a bully pulpit,

[00:20:15] to move things out to religious care for people and, you know,

[00:20:21] where they can also get the spiritual help in addition to the physical help.

[00:20:25] Well, I'll also say that the church has been caring for the communities before the government was, right?

[00:20:32] That has always been the case.

[00:20:34] So even when you look at a case like Fulton v. Philadelphia about adoptions, you know,

[00:20:39] and they're telling these Catholics they must certify same-sex couples

[00:20:43] if they want to continue being in adoption in Philadelphia.

[00:20:48] That ministry was doing adoption before the government was.

[00:20:52] They were the ones who were helping foster children.

[00:20:54] Very true. Very true.

[00:20:55] And it's the same with these ministries.

[00:20:57] The church has always helped the people in need in their communities.

[00:21:01] And the government, whether they want to admit it or not,

[00:21:06] has always been dependent on the church's ability to do that.

[00:21:10] As a matter of fact, we have an article coming out in the future

[00:21:12] just talking about the fact that if you tried to estimate the amount of positive impact

[00:21:17] that churches have economically, it's really off the charts.

[00:21:20] It allows the government not to have to spend as much money.

[00:21:24] Anyway, we're going to take a break,

[00:21:25] and we're going to get into this issue of transgenderism in the Supreme Court case right after this.

[00:21:30] It almost seems like we live in a different world from many people in positions of authority.

[00:21:36] They say men can be women and women men.

[00:21:40] People are prosecuted differently or not at all depending on their politics.

[00:21:45] Criminals are more valued and rewarded than law-abiding citizens.

[00:21:49] It's so overwhelming, so demoralizing.

[00:21:53] You feel like giving up.

[00:21:54] But we can't.

[00:21:56] We shouldn't.

[00:21:57] We must not.

[00:21:58] As Winston Churchill said to Britain in the darkest days of World War II,

[00:22:02] never give in.

[00:22:04] Never give in.

[00:22:05] Never, never, never.

[00:22:07] Never yield to force.

[00:22:08] Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.

[00:22:12] And that's what we say to you today.

[00:22:15] This is not a time to give in,

[00:22:17] but to step up and join Point of View in providing clarity in the chaos.

[00:22:22] We can't do it alone, but together, with God's help, we will overcome the darkness.

[00:22:30] Invest in biblical clarity today at pointofview.net or call 1-800-347-5151.

[00:22:38] Pointofview.net and 800-347-5151.

[00:22:47] Point of View will continue after this.

[00:22:51] You are listening to Point of View.

[00:23:02] The opinions expressed on Point of View do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or staff of this station.

[00:23:09] And now, here again, is Kirby Anderson.

[00:23:13] Weekend edition in studio with us today, Penodexter and Keisha Russell.

[00:23:16] And I might just mention the next three articles you can find on our website.

[00:23:20] One that comes from the editors of the Wall Street Journal.

[00:23:23] The Supreme Court should rule that reality exists.

[00:23:26] That probably tells you all that you need to know.

[00:23:28] One by James Lynch on the whole issue of the back and forth between Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito

[00:23:35] and the Solicitor General on some of the trans procedures.

[00:23:40] And then one we'll get to a little bit later, Noah Rothman saying,

[00:23:43] you know, it is really time to stop calling it gender-affirming care.

[00:23:47] But let me just start with this one.

[00:23:49] I'll come to Penna.

[00:23:49] And then, of course, I want to get some of the legal analysis we'll get from Keisha.

[00:23:53] But the editors put it this way.

[00:23:55] The case rests on whether or not the 14th Amendment's equal protection clause is violated by a Tennessee law

[00:24:02] that restricts the use of puberty blockers and hormones by minors.

[00:24:06] They said, to begin with the obvious, the 14th Amendment says nothing of the sort.

[00:24:10] And they go on to say, it's hard to believe that there in the 19th century during the Victorian age,

[00:24:15] they even thought that this could be used in any way to actually give children the right to actually take drugs

[00:24:22] to irreversibly change their bodies.

[00:24:24] And again, if you haven't received this booklet that we've made available in the past on a biblical point of view on transgenderism,

[00:24:31] it takes you through some of the issues, sites, Ryan Anderson, Abigail Schreier, and many others that have been on the program.

[00:24:39] But, Penna, this is a case that was argued on Wednesday.

[00:24:42] It has very significant implications, not just for Tennessee.

[00:24:47] As I've heard, there's about two dozen-plus states that actually have similar restrictions.

[00:24:53] And so there's a lot at stake on how the Supreme Court rules on this case.

[00:24:57] Yes, a state should have the right to protect children from something like this.

[00:25:02] And it's amazing to listen to some.

[00:25:05] I didn't listen to all the oral arguments, but I listened and read about some of them.

[00:25:10] And it is interesting.

[00:25:12] For one thing, I think we do know about this case, and that is this case is not going to tell us whether these surgeries are going to be able to take place,

[00:25:20] whether the kids are going to be able to be given puberty blockers.

[00:25:23] This sort of has to do with setting the tone and setting the legal rules of the game to get it, I guess, back down to lower courts again and move it back up.

[00:25:33] So, you know, there's a lot of new ground to be laid in a sense.

[00:25:38] And when you look at the Equal Protection Clause, you have to look at the characteristics of the people that are being considered here.

[00:25:46] And Alito did that in these arguments.

[00:25:49] He asked the attorney general, I think it was, or was it the ACLU attorney, whether these traits were immutable or not.

[00:25:59] Is transgenderism, is this immutable?

[00:26:03] Or is this something like you used to claim with LGBT, that it can't be changed, I'm born with it?

[00:26:09] You know, which is it?

[00:26:11] What do you want?

[00:26:12] So it's just a very interesting case, and I think it's so important right now.

[00:26:18] And when you have people that think that you're crazy if you don't buy into the whole trans ability to change your sex,

[00:26:27] then, you know, you lose some of your arguments.

[00:26:30] You lose some of the ability to argue correctly.

[00:26:33] Yeah, I mean, I just think it's so ridiculous.

[00:26:36] Equal Protection has nothing to do with this Tennessee law, but it's the best they can do, right?

[00:26:42] So the ACLU has no other argument.

[00:26:44] There's no reason why the government cannot ban these surgeries.

[00:26:48] And so the ACLU has to make this a constitutional issue in order to try and, you know, throw a bone,

[00:26:55] because they really can't win this case.

[00:26:58] Equal Protection, obviously, you know, race and sex classification get heightened scrutiny.

[00:27:04] But something like an age restriction, which is what this is.

[00:27:07] This is you have to be 18 to do these things.

[00:27:09] And we have laws like dozens and dozens of laws like that.

[00:27:12] You only need a rational basis for that.

[00:27:14] And it's obviously rational to not allow children to have these kinds of procedures before they're old enough to understand the impact that it's going to have on their lives and their bodies.

[00:27:25] And so I predict the Supreme Court is going to do the right thing here.

[00:27:29] But I have to tell you that, you know, Justice Gorsuch did, you know, he's the one that gave us Bostock.

[00:27:39] So you have to remember that in his mind, some of these issues are very much interrelated.

[00:27:44] However, this is more about states' rights than it is about the transgender movement in general, the legal aspect of the case anyway.

[00:27:53] I heard he was very quiet during the arguments.

[00:27:57] Gorsuch.

[00:27:58] Yeah, I don't recall him saying very much, actually.

[00:28:03] I do remember a very interesting argument from Justice Brown Jackson.

[00:28:08] That was my next question.

[00:28:10] Ketanji Brown Jackson and relating it to the whole issue of interracial marriage in the state of Virginia.

[00:28:16] Go ahead.

[00:28:16] OK, so here's what she.

[00:28:18] OK, so the comparison between interracial marriage, the bans on interracial marriage and the ban on minorities getting these life altering procedures.

[00:28:28] I think what she's trying to say is, OK, so the Tennessee is arguing this is not discrimination between sexists because neither boys nor girls under 18 can get this.

[00:28:39] What she's saying is, well, when they ban interracial marriage, neither blacks nor whites could marry each other.

[00:28:45] Does that mean that it's not a ban on race?

[00:28:49] But we know the we know the intent behind that kind of statute is maintaining a caste system.

[00:28:57] Right.

[00:28:58] So if you say you can't marry this kind of person, it's really just saying because you're not good enough or, you know, racially there's there's a supremacy there.

[00:29:05] Right.

[00:29:06] This has nothing to do with supremacy.

[00:29:07] This is not, you know, keeping up with some sort of caste system.

[00:29:10] But she's got to ask it.

[00:29:12] Why?

[00:29:12] Because this is the argument that this group always uses.

[00:29:16] They always compare everything sexual revolution to the sort of civil rights movement and things like that.

[00:29:23] And they are not at all in any way the same.

[00:29:27] Well, it's the assumption that the freedoms, quote unquote, freedoms that the sexual revolution gives are equal to equality for the races.

[00:29:40] And, you know, they're not equivalent.

[00:29:42] You can't you can't put them on the same plane.

[00:29:45] I thought it was interesting, too, that this particular Supreme Court Justice, Katonji Brown Jackson, at one point when she was confirmed, couldn't even define what a woman was.

[00:29:56] Yeah.

[00:29:56] Well, and I ended up testifying in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee against her nomination because of her belief system, because I don't believe someone who thinks the way she does,

[00:30:07] those who, you know, embraces critical race theory and all these things should be on the bench deciding cases like this.

[00:30:13] And I think, you know, her her line of questioning really demonstrates her state of mind about these issues.

[00:30:23] And obviously she has an allegiance to these groups because what, you know, educated judge and lawyer can't define a woman?

[00:30:33] Of course, you can define it.

[00:30:34] You don't want to define it because, you know, it's going to get you in trouble with the ideologues.

[00:30:38] Says everything.

[00:30:39] You know, you were talking about the sexual revolution.

[00:30:41] I held up this booklet the other day on sex and culture because a lot of this comes from a very good book by Carl Truman in which he talks about the rise and triumph of the modern self and the whole sexual revolution.

[00:30:52] And his argument is this.

[00:30:53] Once you give ground to LGB, then T is the next one to come.

[00:30:58] And that is once you say, well, we can't really define male and female and marriage, then you can't define male and female.

[00:31:05] And so in some respects, the two come together.

[00:31:08] But, Penn, I was thinking about something else you and I have written about.

[00:31:12] And that is, you remember the old days when President Barack Obama said, why can't we be more like Europe?

[00:31:17] Well, let's think about this for just a minute because our second article reminds us, and Justice Alito reminded us this as well,

[00:31:24] that extensive research from European countries shows that if anything, these transgender treatments are really harmful.

[00:31:34] And what few benefits that were talked about on Wednesday are very few because the treatments and the risks far outweigh the benefits.

[00:31:45] And you can go even to a Swedish medical board.

[00:31:48] You can go to the classic case, I guess, of the CAS review in the United Kingdom.

[00:31:55] Most of these countries in Europe are saying this is a really bad idea, and the United States needs to listen to that.

[00:32:00] They've closed the Tavistock Clinic in London.

[00:32:04] It was the only clinic to get these surgeries, and they opted to completely close that.

[00:32:10] And the CAS report was huge.

[00:32:11] I think it came out like a year ago or, you know, maybe a little over a year ago.

[00:32:16] But they did extensive research and found that, number one, there weren't any of the positive results,

[00:32:22] and that especially suicide thoughts and all of that.

[00:32:27] You know, parents were threatened, and a lot of these D-trans people are now saying their parents were actually told

[00:32:34] that they would commit suicide if you didn't give them this care.

[00:32:38] And that's, you know, now with the D-transitioners coming out, that's proving to be wrong.

[00:32:44] But the other side of it is these surgeries.

[00:32:47] I saw a video that was put out by this doctor.

[00:32:50] She was one of the frontline doctors during the COVID years, and this was so graphic

[00:32:56] because it showed exactly what's done in these surgeries.

[00:32:59] Maybe not the exact surgery, but the aftermath with the stitches and everything.

[00:33:02] I've seen that.

[00:33:03] And it's not recommended for the faint heart.

[00:33:06] No, it's not recommended for the faint of heart.

[00:33:07] Oh, my goodness.

[00:33:08] And, you know, for any parent to say, oh, out of compassion, I'm going to allow my 11-year-old boy to have this.

[00:33:15] It's not compassion.

[00:33:16] If parents want the best for their children, they should definitely be finding another way to deal with their psychological problems than this type of thing.

[00:33:25] Let me take a break because I know Keisha has a lot more to say.

[00:33:28] I mentioned, didn't you file a brief on this case?

[00:33:30] We did.

[00:33:31] Yeah, so we'll come back and get some perspective on that.

[00:33:34] Transgenderism on the topic at the moment.

[00:33:36] We haven't even talked about how to address the issue of gender-affirming care,

[00:33:40] so we'll talk about that right after these important messages.

[00:33:55] The troubled Boeing company got a new CEO in August.

[00:33:58] Early on, Kelly Ortberg began winding down DEI at Boeing.

[00:34:03] DEI, Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, has been around for decades.

[00:34:06] Diversity requires the elevation of immutable differences like race, age, ethnicity, religion, gender, and sexual orientation.

[00:34:14] Equity, often mistaken for equal opportunity, emphasizes equal outcomes.

[00:34:19] In favor of achieving these, employee merit is necessarily de-emphasized, and therein lies the seat of DEI's failure.

[00:34:27] After the death of George Floyd in 2020, Fortune 500 companies launched or beefed up their DEI initiatives.

[00:34:34] But when companies that build things take their eye off the ball, quality suffers.

[00:34:38] For Boeing, 2024 brought massive problems, including the mid-air separation of a panel from an Alaska Airlines plane.

[00:34:46] A Boeing insider told documentary filmmaker and writer Christopher Ruffo,

[00:34:51] an organization can prioritize excellence or diversity, but not both simultaneously.

[00:34:56] That's why Kelly Ortberg quietly dismantled Boeing's DEI department.

[00:35:00] Another American corporate giant, the country's number one employer, Walmart, announced it is abandoning DEI.

[00:35:07] The Washington Stand reports that when DEI warrior Robbie Starbuck began investigating Walmart's policies,

[00:35:13] company executives reached out to him.

[00:35:16] The company has announced it will no longer participate in the human rights campaign's LGBT shakedown campaign,

[00:35:22] the Corporate Equality Index.

[00:35:24] It pledged to remove inappropriate sexual and or transgender products and to cancel racial equity initiatives.

[00:35:31] Walmart joins a growing list of companies rejecting DEI.

[00:35:34] American businesses are realizing that the woke DEI agenda is polarizing and stifling for businesses.

[00:35:41] Some are choosing to return to simply running a business.

[00:35:44] Chris Ruffo affirms a reckoning is underway in corporate America.

[00:35:48] For Point of View, I'm Penna Dexter.

[00:35:54] You're listening to Point of View, your listener-supported source for truth.

[00:36:00] And once again, of course, in some respects, we're talking about issues that go back decades.

[00:36:04] I pulled out a little booklet here on same-sex marriage.

[00:36:07] Of course, we have one on sex and culture, one on transgenderism.

[00:36:09] But back to this, Keisha, it's all part of the same.

[00:36:13] It does seem to me that once you can redefine whether or not a husband and a wife can exist, male and female,

[00:36:19] one man, one woman, marriage, and you say that doesn't matter, then you get to the point where it says, well, the genders don't matter.

[00:36:28] And we find ourselves today being told that the only compassionate thing to do is allow young children,

[00:36:35] who oftentimes are very confused about their sexuality, to be able to choose these hormones and these surgeries, which are irreversible.

[00:36:44] Absolutely. And it's extremely harmful for children.

[00:36:48] We are not supposed to be talking to children about sex in any form.

[00:36:52] That is child abuse.

[00:36:54] And we know this from the data.

[00:36:56] I mean, it's not old or it's not new information.

[00:37:00] We've always known this.

[00:37:02] And our first liberty filed an amicus brief in the Scrimetti case.

[00:37:06] And our client was a woman named Abby Martinez, who was a single mother in California.

[00:37:12] Her very young daughter, who was about 14, was socially transitioned without her permission or knowledge.

[00:37:19] And then the state basically took the daughter away when Abby refused to affirm medical transition for this girl.

[00:37:27] That means giving her puberty blockers.

[00:37:30] And this is, you'll find, is the tactic that a lot of states will use.

[00:37:35] So we wrote in our amicus brief that these kinds of laws, like in Tennessee, will prevent this situation because the state can't take a parent's child away from them for not affirming gender when it's not allowed for you to medically transition your child anyways.

[00:37:51] So that's part of the reason why we did that.

[00:37:54] But the other part is because we know that this issue is not going to go away.

[00:38:00] And it's important for us to stay in the conversation and in the fight and be able to connect this to the religious, the religious arguments and the values that we've developed in our country.

[00:38:12] Yeah.

[00:38:12] The religious argument is God created man and woman and that the institution of marriage is based on that biblically.

[00:38:21] And so if you wipe out the institution of marriage and change it, because there's a requirement, you know, in Christian doctrine that it be a man and a woman to marry.

[00:38:33] And so we've already gone there.

[00:38:36] We've already gone there.

[00:38:37] So it's hard for us to argue.

[00:38:39] But there was another argument based on discrimination because of one sex that I thought was interesting in this case,

[00:38:47] because they're saying if you give testosterone to a boy to help him out with some issues that he has, it's a medical prescription.

[00:38:57] Then why can't you give it to a girl for another reason?

[00:39:02] And the other reason would be for her to become male or at least try to become male.

[00:39:09] Well, and, you know, also, if you give estrogen to a girl to help her out with her menstrual cycle or whatever, then why can't you give it to a boy to allow him to?

[00:39:20] It's just the purpose of the medication.

[00:39:22] And they're saying you can't just you can't have a different opinion simply because of the purpose, the medical purpose.

[00:39:30] But you can.

[00:39:30] Well, you're supposed to have a different opinion because of the medical purpose.

[00:39:33] Right. Like the doctors, the with the mantra, do no harm.

[00:39:37] Right. You're supposed to if you have healthy breasts.

[00:39:40] Why is the doctor cutting this off from a teenager?

[00:39:43] No, that's not what doctors are supposed to do.

[00:39:46] If something is wrong, then you deal with it.

[00:39:48] And psychological, you know, issues are not the same thing as medical issues.

[00:39:54] And we cannot always deal with those things the same.

[00:39:57] And, you know, physically altering someone is not necessarily going to change their mind.

[00:40:01] Will the court decide that, whether this is discrimination based on sex?

[00:40:04] Will that be part of what this court decides?

[00:40:07] Well, yeah, this is that's the the what you call the issue.

[00:40:11] The question presented is is the state's ban on these procedures for minors, a violation of the equal protection clause.

[00:40:20] And the answer should be no, it is not, because this is not a suspect classification.

[00:40:25] You know, age, you know, you just need a rational basis for for restricting it.

[00:40:29] And I think they'll do because you've listened to I don't know if you listen to all of it, but, you know, enough about what went on on Wednesday.

[00:40:37] And there was one the questioning and we've got an article about it, about what Alito did.

[00:40:42] Roger calls it Alito's kill shot.

[00:40:45] Yes.

[00:40:45] And so, you know, the I guess the question would be whether transgender identity is immutable.

[00:40:53] He was asking that question of this ACLU attorney, Mr.

[00:40:58] Strangio, who's really a woman.

[00:41:02] And he couldn't answer it.

[00:41:06] He first he said that it was immutable.

[00:41:08] But then after Alito asked a couple more questions, he couldn't say that it's immutable.

[00:41:14] Well, that's because it isn't.

[00:41:15] Right.

[00:41:15] You change it all the time.

[00:41:17] Right.

[00:41:17] And they've all they've always said, well, this, you know, you may feel like this one day and this another day.

[00:41:22] Right.

[00:41:23] So it's it's it's there is another exchange as well.

[00:41:27] Very similar to that.

[00:41:28] Well, where the lawyer can't answer a question about the suicide rate you guys were talking about earlier.

[00:41:32] He was this lawyer woman was asked directly, well, this says that there is no evidence that allowing minors to take these kinds of procedures and medical procedures will prevent them from committing suicide.

[00:41:53] And the answer was, no, there there aren't any.

[00:41:57] But it probably does help with suicide ideation.

[00:41:59] Then it's like, well, it doesn't help with that either.

[00:42:01] Well, I mean, you know, I mean, there's nowhere to go.

[00:42:06] There's nowhere to go because the research and they've they've spent so much time lying to the public that when you get in front of a judge who is dealing with facts and figures, they don't know how to talk like that anymore.

[00:42:16] Yeah, they don't know how to have logic.

[00:42:19] It's all about semantic confusion.

[00:42:21] Those kind of things.

[00:42:22] That's right.

[00:42:22] That's right.

[00:42:23] And you think about Dr.

[00:42:24] Paul McHugh.

[00:42:24] Remember him?

[00:42:25] He was at Johns Hopkins University.

[00:42:27] He was head of psychiatry.

[00:42:28] And, of course, he's vilified now because he said this isn't working.

[00:42:31] You know, it's supposed to reduce suicide and it's not reducing suicide and all of those kinds of arguments and all the rest.

[00:42:38] Since we're coming to break, you raised a good question I thought just would put on the table for a minute.

[00:42:42] And that is the case that you dealt with where the the state could take your daughter, your son away from you.

[00:42:50] I was thinking of Tim Walsh.

[00:42:51] Remember Tim Walsh?

[00:42:53] Well, I've got this in front of me here.

[00:42:55] Unfortunately, yes.

[00:42:56] This is an NPR, so you know it must be true.

[00:42:59] Tim Walsh State has become a trans refuge.

[00:43:01] And what that means in Minnesota, right, it means in California and places like this, is it not, Keisha, that if indeed I am, say, a 14-year-old and I want to transition and my parents won't let me, I'll find a way to get on a bus or an airplane, go to that state, and they will then say, I will be in local parentis for you and allow you to transition.

[00:43:24] So what's at stake here is the fact that some individuals that want to go through a transition of some sort might flee to another state unless the Supreme Court rules effectively on this.

[00:43:36] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:43:37] And the other thing is, you know, the parents have even having knowledge of what's happening and, you know, these activists who will take your child and brainwash them and then, you know, tell them that they need to leave the state in order to do these things.

[00:43:50] So, I mean, this is just a very sinister situation.

[00:43:56] And I'm hoping that the Supreme Court will at least put, you know, a lock on this part of it because doing this to our children is something I think this country is going to end up paying for if we don't stop very soon.

[00:44:07] Well, so many states have been smart enough to pass these laws.

[00:44:10] And that, to me, that's what's egregious here is the idea that the Biden administration would come in and say you can't have a law that protects children in this way.

[00:44:21] And so, you know, I mean, we're all saying it has to go the right way.

[00:44:25] But then you wonder, you know, has our culture bought into the language, the changes in the language and in definitions?

[00:44:35] And does the emperor really have no clothes?

[00:44:38] And so, you know, it's just going to be interesting to see what the court does.

[00:44:42] I'm not even sure about all the conservative justices here in this particular case.

[00:44:46] I'm not either.

[00:44:46] But, you know, I'm a hard sell when it comes to that kind of stuff because I don't believe Bostock was cited correctly.

[00:44:52] So I think Bostock was completely wrong there.

[00:44:55] But we'll just have to see how it goes.

[00:44:58] Well, we're going to take a break and when we come back, how about a few other topics?

[00:45:03] DEI as well as some of these Trump nominees.

[00:45:06] Of course, if you'd like to join us, 1-800-351-1212.

[00:45:09] Any of the articles we're talking about on the website.

[00:45:11] We'll be right back.

[00:45:12] The Bible tells us not to worry.

[00:45:13] And yet there is a lot of worrying stuff in our world today.

[00:45:18] Thankfully, the Bible doesn't stop at telling us not to worry.

[00:45:23] God gives us a next step.

[00:45:25] He says we need to pray.

[00:45:27] But sometimes even knowing what to pray can be difficult.

[00:45:32] And that is why Point of View has relaunched our Pray for America movement,

[00:45:37] a series of weekly emails to guide you in prayer for our nation.

[00:45:42] Each week you'll receive a brief update about a current issue affecting Americans,

[00:45:48] along with a written prayer that you can easily share with others.

[00:45:53] We'll also include a short free resource for you in each email so you can learn more about the issue at hand.

[00:46:01] Will you commit to pray for America?

[00:46:20] Let's pray together for God to make a difference in America.

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